2011-08-08 01:44 ha, i found the root cause for the accum int signal not asserted... i did a bad asumption about ignoring bus cycle signal from  avalon to wishbone port... 2011-08-08 01:45 oh well 2011-08-08 02:10 damn, can be? in namuru i need to read/qeite some registers  to clean some flags... 2011-08-08 02:10 i cant see where is it pointed in the documentation.. but 2011-08-08 02:10 cross fingers and hope Artyom to confirm this 2011-08-08 02:12 well, if this is true i can implemnent id to fit milkymist csr bus workflow, but is tricky to cath it from avalon as current it is.. 2011-08-08 04:56 "real soon now " :-) 2011-08-08 04:57 300 more and i can buy a ephel ;) 2011-08-08 04:59 kristianpaul: should we remove the "real soon now"? 2011-08-08 04:59 I mean the whole line? 2011-08-08 05:00 I didn't wnat it there but Sebastien added it... 2011-08-08 05:00 if there's something I don't like, it's announcements 2011-08-08 05:00 well, the soon now is kinda odd imho 2011-08-08 05:01 thanks, that helps 2011-08-08 05:01 removed 2011-08-08 05:01 :-) 2011-08-08 05:01 like, is here but not can touch it !!, just wait a bit ;-) 2011-08-08 05:02 ok 2011-08-08 05:02 also i asume you had a BIG annoucment for the this rc3? 2011-08-08 05:02 I first want to actually have it 2011-08-08 05:02 considering new stuff on the box and all software improvements since the EDK era :) 2011-08-08 05:03 not to much effort i think all is already wrritten just need to be organized. 2011-08-08 05:04 those videos from xiangfu are a must to include, 2011-08-08 05:04 from all my mm1 demostration people always get amazed with the effects and the music just playing in the background :) 2011-08-08 05:05 (no complaing for the resolution or dunno what else) 2011-08-08 05:05 . 2011-08-08 05:05 one it run people like. so the preview videos should keep that sensation 2011-08-08 05:06 now i consider again the must word :) 2011-08-08 05:06 rjeffries_: \.? ;-) 2011-08-08 05:06 $#@(*! 2011-08-08 05:06 ;) 2011-08-08 05:07 kristianpaul: I don't understand you. What is your point? 2011-08-08 05:08 wolfspraul: better quality on the preview videos for patches :) 2011-08-08 05:08 you mean the 4 new ones? 2011-08-08 05:08 well i'm not saying current are bad, just keep improving :) 2011-08-08 05:08 not good enough? 2011-08-08 05:08 what needs to be improved? 2011-08-08 05:08 for the 4 new ones, what needs improvement? 2011-08-08 05:08 resolution 2011-08-08 05:09 probably that needs improvement on the m1 side 2011-08-08 05:09 those videos are taken with a camera mounted on a tripod filming an LCM :-) 2011-08-08 05:09 looks like those movies ripped from cinema , in the good senseof my comment 2011-08-08 05:09 he, yes that ! 2011-08-08 05:10 yes, but that's the only practical way I have right now 2011-08-08 05:10 I'm not sure whether the resolution actually can be improved on the recording side 2011-08-08 05:10 the camera certainly has a high resolution, and then there's video compression 2011-08-08 05:10 sure i understand just dropping some comments for what i think can call atention for rc3 annoucement 2011-08-08 05:10 ok 2011-08-08 05:11 I don't know how to quickly increase the quality of recordings 2011-08-08 05:11 vga grabber _might_ help but I don't have one and it's expensive and may need Windows etc. 2011-08-08 05:11 and it may very well end up in the same quality 2011-08-08 05:11 he i was about to point that (vga grabber) 2011-08-08 05:11 what would help is real-time video encoding on the m1, or higher m1 resolution 2011-08-08 05:12 until then I think the camera from lcm approach is not bad 2011-08-08 05:12 if you say so :) 2011-08-08 05:13 kristianpaul: you think it's too bad? 2011-08-08 05:13 no no 2011-08-08 05:13 it's just a practical idea now that works, and we can record a lot of patches fast 2011-08-08 05:13 I want to record some with different kinds of music 2011-08-08 05:13 just "rip" a video from another video camera is not always good, sure is practical 2011-08-08 05:14 well 2011-08-08 05:14 you try with a vga grabber then we compare 2011-08-08 05:14 ;-)) 2011-08-08 05:14 it's slow and expensive 2011-08-08 05:14 I am thinking practical 2011-08-08 05:14 now we have those 4 videos, today 2011-08-08 05:14 in the wiki 2011-08-08 05:14 sure, i just complaing... 2011-08-08 05:14 and I can easily make another 10 or 20 2011-08-08 05:14 I will not go down the vga grabber direction 2011-08-08 05:14 I checked a little, not good 2011-08-08 05:14 if someone else does - great :-) 2011-08-08 05:15 wiki uploads work for anybody... 2011-08-08 05:15 so better videos from me will only come if either real-time m1 encoding/streaming works, or if the m1 resolution goes up 2011-08-08 05:15 both of which is not to be expected soon 2011-08-08 05:15 meaning that, unless someone else steps up and beats me to better quality, we will get more of this current quality level you see there 2011-08-08 05:15 it's the best I can pull off right now 2011-08-08 05:16 I think it's better than the ones we had before, a step in the right direction 2011-08-08 05:16 :-) 2011-08-08 05:17 oh, sure 2011-08-08 05:17 as i said, keep improving :) 2011-08-08 05:17 just after you watched several times, details pop-up 2011-08-08 05:17 no more :) 2011-08-08 05:20 definitely 2011-08-08 05:20 I am just describing what I did so far and why, and what next steps are planned. 2011-08-08 05:21 Sebastien tried to work on 1024x768 resolution, but could only get it to about 4 fps at first 2011-08-08 05:21 then he worked on several speed improvements like a TMU 2011-08-08 05:21 which got it up but not enough 2011-08-08 05:21 so as a side effect we have faster memory now, and smoother 640x480 rendering :-) 2011-08-08 05:22 but more work is needed to squeeze out more performance on the memory side 2011-08-08 05:22 he mentioned a complete redesign of the memory controller, which would require serious work and research he said 2011-08-08 05:22 won't happen soon 2011-08-08 05:22 and/or that Xilinx code snippet, which unfortunately comes without source redistribution rights 2011-08-08 05:23 we'll get there eventually, but more people need to join and help ramp up the speed 2011-08-08 05:23 at least Sebastien already saw the rendering in 1024x768 and said it looked noticably better :-) 2011-08-08 05:23 that's great 2011-08-08 05:24 he said 800x600 doesn't look much better than the current 640x480 (also related to some texture sizes I think) 2011-08-08 05:25 so I guess we can skip 800x600 2011-08-08 05:25 either 1024x768 or stay at 640x480 and make that better 2011-08-08 05:25 that's all I know 2011-08-08 05:26 640x480 looks nice 2011-08-08 05:27 you really take a while to realize the real resolution and bits per pixed, if you are not told 2011-08-08 05:28 actually i started the concern after playing with the video-in, before that i even  thought about it 2011-08-08 05:33 Artyom, how do you clean status_read flag? i guess as writing to STATUS reg isnt? 2011-08-08 05:34 that will explain also that i need to re-load some values per channel, after a accumulator interrupt 2011-08-08 05:34 a/an/ 2011-08-08 05:35 i poiting it because i think that was my problem with zeroes accumulators, i just implemented wrong all the flags for enable and registers and internal flags in namuru.. 2011-08-08 05:35 so once written they keep asserted hihg.. ;-) 2011-08-08 05:35 s/hihg/high 2011-08-08 05:36 anyway, fixing  now i think that was my problem :), waiting for your feedback 2011-08-08 05:36 gn8 2011-08-08 05:55 wolfspraul: can you check please sige.com i dont see GPS in products anymore... 2011-08-08 05:55 ah yes it is ;) 2011-08-08 05:55 sorry for the noise 2011-08-08 05:56 that Search box is not very helpfull 2011-08-08 05:57 and also http://www.skyworksinc.com/Products_SiGe_Mobile_Devices.aspx 2011-08-08 05:58 relax 2011-08-08 05:58 :-) 2011-08-08 05:58 at the level you are working on, we will be able to move to different front-ends later I'm sure, with relative ease 2011-08-08 05:59 that's the whole point of copyleft hardware after all, to push the software level to the point that every chip we source can easily be replaced with another chip from a second, independent, manufacturer 2011-08-08 05:59 I am not checking with SiGe on the business side, because I have so little to show to them / talk about 2011-08-08 05:59 he, sure, just wpwrak was concern about the acquired i wanted to make sure current status :) 2011-08-08 05:59 but once I do, I will definitely reach out to them 2011-08-08 06:00 remember they sent us this EVB of a (back then) unreleased chip for free, to support our project 2011-08-08 06:00 I owe them a report back 2011-08-08 06:00 sure :) 2011-08-08 06:00 current report signal detected no tracking, i'm working on it.. :) 2011-08-08 06:00 sure, no rush 2011-08-08 06:01 ok off bed now tomorrow i have boring meeting ;) 2011-08-08 06:01 n8 2011-08-08 06:08 wpwrak trying to recall when I advocated "open loop design" 2011-08-08 06:32 was that the time I suggested Argintina should become a US Territoty? I can't remember. ;) 2011-08-08 06:44 "Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement." - Henry Ford 2011-08-08 07:04 hello. 2011-08-08 07:06 qwebirc73004, hi 2011-08-08 07:10 0x50: C154 re-soldered its two pads, the impedance err disappears. phew~I took out L8/U11/C136/U13 sequentially then found C154. ;-) 2011-08-08 07:12 aw: not bad 2011-08-08 07:12 another board recovered? 2011-08-08 07:12 was the cold soldering visually detectable? (would have been cool if you had taken a microscope picture before the resoldering) 2011-08-08 07:14 didn't take microscope. :( but I would like to change 0805's footprint to avoid of this. the gap between two pads seems too closer. 2011-08-08 07:15 sure sounds good. take a pic now to document it. 2011-08-08 07:15 would have been interesting to know whether it was detectable before, visually 2011-08-08 07:15 cold soldering can't cause "short" in C154 2011-08-08 07:15 oh sorry, yes 2011-08-08 07:15 wrong word 2011-08-08 07:16 I was just curious how it looked before 2011-08-08 07:16 but no pic, no problem 2011-08-08 07:17 it must be haven a "short" condition under two soldering pads to cause this. but bad that I forgot to take mircoscope, it may still not easily to discover by microscope top view though. 2011-08-08 07:17 top view not, maybe from the side? 2011-08-08 07:18 well, now it's too late 2011-08-08 07:18 but a good discovery, let's see how the rest of the board works... 2011-08-08 07:18 this happens of course if solder paste is too much then get this. 2011-08-08 07:18 change footprint sounds good 2011-08-08 07:18 if that helps 2011-08-08 07:19 but I would also narrow the gap between 0805 footprint. ;-) 2011-08-08 07:21 now~go to soldering those parts back and see. :) 2011-08-08 07:51 wpwrak: yes, I really like Milkymist Hardware Family, but one more word missing 2011-08-08 07:51 Hardware Family Requirements? 2011-08-08 07:51 which family has 'requirements'... 2011-08-08 07:51 so in that style it needs to be something friendlier then 2011-08-08 07:52 description? too meaningless 2011-08-08 08:00 characterizations? particulars? 2011-08-08 08:00 Milkymist Hardware Family Particulars? MHFP :-) 2011-08-08 08:01 or just Milkymist Hardware Family, nothing else 2011-08-08 09:20 Hi everyone ! 2011-08-08 09:29 short probably caused by either to much solder paster, or poor alignment/stencil-layout, or too much pressure when placing components into solder paste bed 2011-08-08 09:30 dang, I bet this time it will take a week til OM box chandra is up again 2011-08-08 09:31 I have a pretty clear idea where "our" sysops are right now and what they're doing 2011-08-08 09:37 LunaVorax: hi 2011-08-08 09:39 wolfspraul, :) 2011-08-08 09:39 Got the newsletter 2011-08-08 09:39 I have ONE complain 2011-08-08 09:39 Some people have computers that cannot play HD videos correctly 2011-08-08 09:40 (in this case, me) 2011-08-08 09:40 So I cannot enjoy some of them 2011-08-08 09:40 which one? 2011-08-08 09:40 The hello world video 2011-08-08 09:41 And probably the "How to boot the Nanonote into USB mode" also 2011-08-08 09:41 I would have rencoded them in half the size but for some reason avidemux doesn't want to open them 2011-08-08 09:42 DocScrutinizer, yes, since I currently found one 0805 for short condition: although surely the stencil-layout and much solder pastes or much pressure will cause this, I'd still prefer to narrow the gap between 0805's two pads. ;-) surely the a smaller stencil's aperture can help this. the right effort should not be at smt vendor side though. ;-) 2011-08-08 09:42 LunaVorax: can you explain more? 2011-08-08 09:43 what system do you have? how do you watch videos? 2011-08-08 09:43 do you use the javascript viewer? 2011-08-08 09:43 or download the .ogv file? 2011-08-08 09:44 oh wow, indeed. the original of those two videos was done at 1920x1080 pixels - cool 2011-08-08 09:44 aw: narrowing gap? please elaborate 2011-08-08 09:44 that will still play nice on the 4000x4000 pixel screens we will have in a few years :-) 2011-08-08 09:44 wolfspraul, I am using a 1.3ghz (mono core) computer (with an old gefore mx400 64mb card running the open source driver) 2011-08-08 09:45 hmm 2011-08-08 09:45 wolfspraul, and I download the .ogv files on the computer and play it with mplayer 2011-08-08 09:45 have you tried using the javascript viewer? 2011-08-08 09:45 wolfspraul, not sure it will go faster but let me try 2011-08-08 09:45 I browse the web with JS off 2011-08-08 09:45 I don't know technically where it's scaled down, but the view is definitely much smaller than 1920x1080 there 2011-08-08 09:46 Oh ok 2011-08-08 09:46 what I can do in the future is for any video above a certain resolution, to upload a second lower resolution one 2011-08-08 09:46 but it's all work and I need to understand where the problem is first 2011-08-08 09:46 your mplayer cannot scale down the 1920x1080 video? 2011-08-08 09:46 Hmm no, no good, twice as sluggish 2011-08-08 09:46 it may be scaled down locally 2011-08-08 09:47 wolfspraul, i tried with no success but maybe I'm using the wrong parametters 2011-08-08 09:47 otherwise I don't know who could do the computing intensive scaling 2011-08-08 09:47 DocScrutinizer, the distance between two pads of 0805 I'll expand it, currently it's too close. sorry that I used wrong word. ;-) 2011-08-08 09:47 I guess MediaWiki is not that good yet in auto-scaling videos 2011-08-08 09:47 for pictures it's great 2011-08-08 09:48 so I can easily upload the absolute highest-res picture I have, because in any place I use it MediaWiki will scale it down on the server, and cache the scaled down version 2011-08-08 09:48 but for videos that's not the case (yet, I would hope) 2011-08-08 09:48 so if I upload a super high-res 4000x4000 video, that'd be bad 2011-08-08 09:49 people would have to download all that data, only to have it scaled down after download - not good 2011-08-08 09:49 that's my current understanding 2011-08-08 09:49 so I guess I need to manually create lower-res versions, until MediaWiki is better with videos 2011-08-08 09:49 LunaVorax: which resolution is best for you? 2011-08-08 09:49 DocScrutinizer, C154/0805 is surrounding U13: http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/1f/M1_rc3_front_gerber_view_image.png 2011-08-08 09:49 aw: look, neither the PCB nor the component has any surface that would make the molten solder migrate and close the gap between the two pads. The pads shall be no closer to each other than the contacts of the component. There is no way the solder shorts the gap unless either your solderpaste blobs merged into each other due to too much paste or pressure, or you apply pessure when solder is molten so it will spread under component 2011-08-08 09:50 woakas, for video playback, 640x480 is good (in know it's 2011) 2011-08-08 09:50 -in + I 2011-08-08 09:50 the size of the window on the news will not be bigger than that anyway 2011-08-08 09:50 it's just maintenance overhead 2011-08-08 09:50 first a lower-res video needs to be created manually, then uploaded 2011-08-08 09:51 then there are 2 uploads of the same video 2011-08-08 09:51 and some people may prefer the high-res one, but even if you link to both resolutions, that's not very user friendly 2011-08-08 09:51 best would be if the scaling would be more automatic and built-in... 2011-08-08 09:51 aw: general rule: the amount of solder paste applied never can be too small 2011-08-08 09:51 LunaVorax: thanks for the feedback! I will look into this 2011-08-08 09:52 I noticed that on Wikimedia Commons many videos are uploaded in multiple resolutions 2011-08-08 09:52 wolfspraul, thank you :) 2011-08-08 09:52 wolfspraul, i'll try to scale down the video using ffmpeg 2011-08-08 09:52 he 2011-08-08 09:52 a lot of work 2011-08-08 09:52 the server should do that for us 2011-08-08 09:52 our time is valuable, and there are better things to do... 2011-08-08 09:53 Oh ok 2011-08-08 09:53 Let the server do the work then :P 2011-08-08 09:53 feel free, feel free... 2011-08-08 09:53 :-) 2011-08-08 09:53 best would be if MediaWiki could do video scaling (and caching) like they do for images 2011-08-08 09:53 but it's a lot of work throughout the whole system 2011-08-08 09:53 I'm sure 2011-08-08 09:53 I'll think about it 2011-08-08 09:54 If you can tweak that also, try to make the server use the svn version of theora, it has really been improved and makes videos looks better 2011-08-08 09:54 DocScrutinizer, the stencil built from smt vendor, the stencil's 0805 size will never be the same as equivalent to design solder paste layer size, I agreed your idea though. but I would change our design not to ask smt vendor to request if their thickness of solder paste is under spec. or not. ;-) The design from ours should be producible everywhere to let any smt vendor can mount/assembly boards. ;-) 2011-08-08 09:54 aw: otoh increasing the gap between pads to more than the distance of contact to contact distance on component is generally not a good thing either 2011-08-08 09:55 woakas, (even better than wp8, hum hum) 2011-08-08 09:55 DocScrutinizer, :-) 2011-08-08 09:56 aw: what you sugest can not work. The SMT population and reflow process has to be tuned anyway, and there's no such thing like a universal layout 2011-08-08 09:57 IOW when smt fab is doing nonsense, there's nothing you can do against it on layout side 2011-08-08 09:58 but maybe the footprint is actually sub-optimal, I haven't checked it 2011-08-08 09:58 getting good footprints seems the holy grail of smt designers 2011-08-08 10:00 LunaVorax: the server is not using theora (what exactly?) 2011-08-08 10:00 the only thing the server does is the thumbnails from videos 2011-08-08 10:00 using oggthumb now because ffmpeg caused too many problems 2011-08-08 10:00 but the server is not doing video scaling, at all 2011-08-08 10:00 that's the thing 2011-08-08 10:01 so a video uploaded as 1920x1080 will be downloaded like that, full resolution 2011-08-08 10:01 and then scaled down locally, I'm pretty sure 2011-08-08 10:01 wolfspraul, hum ok 2011-08-08 10:01 theora = the ogg video codec, is that what you were asking ? 2011-08-08 10:01 aw: anyway doublecheck your pad size vs size of component contacts. I'd think they have to exactly match, otherwise you're asking for trouble 2011-08-08 10:02 SMT components get pulled into position by solder cohesion and adhesion 2011-08-08 10:03 only if footprints match exactly - otherwise they get pulled *out of pos*, they move in unpleasant ways 2011-08-08 10:03 LunaVorax: I do not believe the server touches (encodes or decodes) the ogv file 2011-08-08 10:03 from my understanding, the only thing the server does with uploaded ogv files is to extract thumbnails with oggthumb 2011-08-08 10:03 that's it 2011-08-08 10:03 the rest is on the client 2011-08-08 10:03 that's my understanding, I need to look into it 2011-08-08 10:03 Ok 2011-08-08 10:04 now that I understand your problem I think we will find a solution :-) 2011-08-08 10:04 thanks A LOT for the feedback 2011-08-08 10:04 that's the kind of stuff we need to get better... 2011-08-08 10:04 I'm sorry I'm a bit confused with all of this 2011-08-08 10:04 Haha 2011-08-08 10:04 well I am guessing too 2011-08-08 10:04 Well, thank you... I though i was only one single grumpy user 2011-08-08 10:04 I need to do some study on it... 2011-08-08 10:04 even if so, so what 2011-08-08 10:04 then we improve it for you 2011-08-08 10:05 individuals always have the purest perspective on things, imho 2011-08-08 10:05 Hum 2011-08-08 10:05 once you start to ask groups/polling, you are in all sorts of social experiments and surprises 2011-08-08 10:05 hard to understand what 'the group' really meant and wanted :-) 2011-08-08 10:05 so I rather go with individual feedback 2011-08-08 10:05 DocScrutinizer, pad size and size of components are not match well though I just realized when I see it. ;-) this is primary, others surely is secondary idea. but glad to see here you gave us great inputs. 2011-08-08 10:05 and then either you are happy or not, I can understand that feedback 2011-08-08 10:05 aw: bottom line: make sure your footprint is *correct*, there's only one correct padsize for footprints. And you can do nothing if SMT fab applies too much solder paste 2011-08-08 10:06 Anyway, about this tutorial, I think I'll have to work on it and write a wiki page about it, cause the guys is asuming that the user already installed the GCC toolchain. That's pretty discouraging if you're a noob. 2011-08-08 10:06 DocScrutinizer: keep in mind the statistics too. If we have a problem with 1 of tens of thousands of parts, that needs to be considered as well. 2011-08-08 10:07 so a solution like "too much solder paste" may well lead to problems with a few hundred parts in the next run, instead of 1 :-) 2011-08-08 10:07 sure 2011-08-08 10:07 this was a run of 90 boards, and Adam now foudn this one instance of this once capacitor on one board 2011-08-08 10:08 that's a pretty important data point to consider in any counter measure 2011-08-08 10:08 applying solder paste is a critical process and prone to have glitches every now and then 2011-08-08 10:09 but uneven printing of solder paste is a problem of SMT manuf 2011-08-08 10:10 only thing designer can do is make sure the FP is _correct_ 2011-08-08 10:11 a _correct_ footprint is already optimized to avoid issues with too much solder paste - there's no ueber-optimization especially to avoid shorts 2011-08-08 10:12 as you got a distance of contacts on component as well and that won't change no matter which footprint. Ideally footprint and component match 100% 2011-08-08 10:13 you *may* optimize solder paste stencil though 2011-08-08 10:14 and make sure your solder stop mask printing is OK 2011-08-08 10:14 (the usually green stuff) 2011-08-08 10:38 LunaVorax: there's some good information here http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Converting_video#General_conversion_tips 2011-08-08 10:39 I will do that for the 2 tutorial videos 2011-08-08 10:40 Perfect ! I didn't knew wikimedia what hosting such helping instructions 2011-08-08 10:41 wolfspraul: do you have administrative access to openmoko chandra? 2011-08-08 10:44 LunaVorax: more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Creation_and_usage_of_media_files#Video 2011-08-08 10:44 DocScrutinizer: I doubt it, sorry 2011-08-08 10:45 wolfspraul, the red square probably is the most valuable information, it also talk about bandwidth 2011-08-08 10:48 wolfspraul: who's gismo's "boss"? 2011-08-08 10:48 it's a NOGO those 2 dudes keep exclusive admin of OM infra 2011-08-08 10:49 they damn share credentials to sb not living in Berlin, pleae 2011-08-08 10:49 please 2011-08-08 10:50 preferrably sb who knows about admin stuff, e.g mrmoku 2011-08-08 10:58 wolfspraul, I'm encoding the video you'll need for the wiki 2011-08-08 10:59 it'll be 400x225 the exact size of the thumbnail 2011-08-08 11:15 wolfspraul, ok got the right settings, I'll send you the video when it's ready 2011-08-08 11:24 LunaVorax: he, nice! :-) 2011-08-08 11:29 send me? 2011-08-08 11:29 just upload them 2011-08-08 11:29 and then we can link from the embedded video and caption 2011-08-08 11:29 I'll do that once it's uploaded 2011-08-08 11:50 bah, 10 minutes later :( 2011-08-08 11:52 The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-08072011-0759/ 2011-08-08 12:24 LunaVorax: you there? did you run into problems? I can finish it too if you like... 2011-08-08 12:29 wolfspraul, sorry I just came back eating 2011-08-08 12:29 I'm finished 2011-08-08 12:29 :) 2011-08-08 12:29 Don't worry, I have a long experience playing with ffmpeg :P 2011-08-08 12:30 Where can I upload the files ? Can I do it with my account on the wiki ? 2011-08-08 12:30 sure 2011-08-08 12:30 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Special:Upload 2011-08-08 12:31 set the license to cc-by-sa, copyright status and source just fill in your own name, if you want to be perfect you can link to the higher-resolution original somewhere 2011-08-08 12:31 \o/ 2011-08-08 12:31 maybe in source 2011-08-08 12:31 ok 2011-08-08 12:44 wolfspraul, uploaded and newsletter fixed 2011-08-08 12:45 oh, let me check 2011-08-08 12:47 ok, the thumbnails look different already, strange :-) 2011-08-08 12:47 Yeah I saw that 2011-08-08 12:47 I don't know if that's very important 2011-08-08 12:47 Anyway, I think it teached us a valuable lesson, video embedded in the newsletter should follow some standards like max height = 360px and max bitrate = 220kbits/s 2011-08-08 12:48 The question is now, how to configure the server to do the job for us every time. Maybe a simple bash script should do the trick 2011-08-08 12:54 wolfspraul, does the reencoded video suits your standards ? 2011-08-08 12:55 the thumbnail is very important 2011-08-08 12:55 because that's the impression people get from looking over the page 2011-08-08 12:55 the thumbnail will make a _huge_ difference as to whether someone will watch the video or not 2011-08-08 12:56 it's a bit tedious to find a good one, and unfortunately you can only pick a second, not a frame. so it's a hit and miss. 2011-08-08 12:56 I think I found 2 acceptable ones for the 2 new videos now, check it out 2011-08-08 13:02 LunaVorax: ok check it, now I changed the download link to download medium/high 2011-08-08 13:02 it's not nice but I guess we have to do this because we cannot sense which resolution make sense for the client 2011-08-08 13:02 oh, and the size is also wrong :-) 2011-08-08 13:02 updating... 2011-08-08 13:03 which size ? 2011-08-08 13:03 aw_: how can we find the root cause of boards like 0x34 ? 2011-08-08 13:04 LunaVorax: look under the video 2011-08-08 13:04 wait let me update this 2011-08-08 13:04 Haha 2011-08-08 13:06 wolfspraul, I thing that what would make sense for the client would be something they see every day. Therefore (if the video were encoded following a pixel height rule) using terms like (360p, 720p, 1080p) instead of (low, medium, high) which can be considered somewhat vague 2011-08-08 13:07 well 2011-08-08 13:08 you will find out that there are as many resolutions as there are videos 2011-08-08 13:08 check now, updated again 2011-08-08 13:08 I think now it's good 2011-08-08 13:08 I removed the medium/high, sure that is vague but we will always be pushing the problem around 2011-08-08 13:08 wolfspraul, not only 0x34 which stopped at 'Bitstream length: 1484404', few boards have been also stopped at that err, it seems that i would say(but right now I can't approve it. ;-) ) that 1). s/w codes can't fit h/w tolerance caused by parts, then corrupted somewhere then can't restore/recover. 2) what's exactly part caused shift easily by part itself tolerance? 2011-08-08 13:09 yes but which h/w tolerance? :-) 2011-08-08 13:09 we can send 0x34 to Sebastien, that's one option 2011-08-08 13:09 wolfspraul, your edit is perfect :) 2011-08-08 13:09 or you try to find out the hardware difference, by comparing until you find something suspicious. or maybe by looking for certain things? (if sebastien has ideas) 2011-08-08 13:10 the good news is that it seems we can reproduce the problem on 0x34, that is it happens every time 2011-08-08 13:10 that's better than a problem that appears only rarely 2011-08-08 13:10 LunaVorax: so basically what we do in the future is this: 2011-08-08 13:10 a video should always first be created and uploaded in the highest resolution possible 2011-08-08 13:10 no limits 2011-08-08 13:10 the higher the better 2011-08-08 13:11 wolfspraul, don't know yet just guess (without hard data), just to be verified later like: taking working board and that issued board, taking scopes again. but it could be hard to take many signals in parallel from my current equipment. 2011-08-08 13:11 then, if it's more than 1024x768 or so, we will create a scaled down version that matches the window size we will have for the embedded viewing 2011-08-08 13:11 in that case, instead of one 'download' link, we will have 2 links linking to the smaller and larger video by stating their file sizes (for people who want to download) 2011-08-08 13:12 aw_: understand, hard. maybe sebastien can give us some ideas, or we send 0x34 to Sebastien. 2011-08-08 13:12 we'll see 2011-08-08 13:12 we do have a few of those boards, so at some point we probably need to investigate 2011-08-08 13:13 LunaVorax: sounds like a plan? 2011-08-08 13:13 wolfspraul, be also sure when embedding a video in a webpage that your server can deliver the video fast enough so users don't have lags because of their/your connection speed 2011-08-08 13:13 wolfspraul, perfect but I have two suggestion 2011-08-08 13:13 Embedded videos = 220kbits/s 2011-08-08 13:13 And 2011-08-08 13:13 I suggest a limit of 480pixels in height instead of 1024x768 2011-08-08 13:14 he, ok :-) 2011-08-08 13:14 sorry if I'm too picky :P 2011-08-08 13:14 wolfspraul, regards to which h/w part I don't know now only once we deeply digging into probe sequencies of several signals to see if any secrets behind. 2011-08-08 13:14 we are 'wasting' some download capacity and client load when embedding larger videos and letting the client scale down 2011-08-08 13:14 but you were the first one to notice and complain 2011-08-08 13:14 Haha 2011-08-08 13:15 Maybe because I'm the first to have weak hardware 2011-08-08 13:15 it's a tradeoff between maintenance overhead and our actual users 2011-08-08 13:15 well the rule is for 1 person to speak up, there's 100 with the same problem who will not speak up 2011-08-08 13:15 so it's a good thing you brought up there, I think 2011-08-08 13:15 but, you will admit, this creates more manual work 2011-08-08 13:15 so I'll see on which videos I do this extra work :-) 2011-08-08 13:15 it's a wiki, anybody can help 2011-08-08 13:16 also this can be done retroactively 2011-08-08 13:16 wolfspraul, that's why I was wondering how to solve that with a script 2011-08-08 13:16 as long as we first always upload the highest-resolution video first, everything else is optimization and can be done at any time 2011-08-08 13:16 nah, too much work 2011-08-08 13:16 You sure ? 2011-08-08 13:16 if even Wikimedia Commons is doing this manually now, I wait until their pain is high enough that they implement it server side 2011-08-08 13:16 ok 2011-08-08 13:16 Qi is a copyleft hardware project 2011-08-08 13:17 it's not that I'm dwiddling my thumbs looking for ways to kill my time 2011-08-08 13:17 push the Mediawiki guys :-) 2011-08-08 13:17 or even help them 2011-08-08 13:17 perfect 2011-08-08 13:17 but no custom scripts on the qi server, which will add more maintenance work for me 2011-08-08 13:17 That sounds better indeed 2011-08-08 13:17 Yep I understand perfectly 2011-08-08 13:17 and plus, this won't be easy 2011-08-08 13:18 I would extend the pretty neat picture thumbnailing infrastructure they have already 2011-08-08 13:18 that just needs to be extended to video thumbnailing 2011-08-08 13:18 I guess it's not high enough in their huge priority list 2011-08-08 13:18 so video thumbnailing needs to be done manually right now 2011-08-08 13:19 which is only really an issue for high-res videos, and people on slow links or lower mhz machines 2011-08-08 13:20 wolfspraul, I'm asking the problem on #mediawiki :) 2011-08-08 13:20 We'll see if they have a solution 2011-08-08 13:20 let's see whether you get an answer 2011-08-08 13:20 that channel is pretty crowded 2011-08-08 13:20 you have a good chance when the full-time san francisco staff are online, which is probably a bit too early now 2011-08-08 13:21 6 am there now, I think 2011-08-08 13:21 even the hackers are sleeping then, except if they have an American roh there... :-) 2011-08-08 13:22 Oh darn I forgot about that 2011-08-08 13:23 mediawiki is global, just wait and see. but in my experience in that channel it helps when the americans are awake... 2011-08-08 13:24 I've fixed a few bugs over the years and I like the project in general. they really do well. 2011-08-08 14:15 rjeffries: (vga tester) heh, that would work ;-) 2011-08-08 14:18 Question 2011-08-08 14:18 Would it be possible to display a little animation when the Nanonote is booting ? 2011-08-08 14:39 LunaVorax: surely possible but someone needs to implement it 2011-08-08 14:40 and not everybody would like it probably, for example I just want it to boot as fast as possible 2011-08-08 14:40 Ok 2011-08-08 14:40 I was just wondering 2011-08-08 14:40 but you can experiment in that area :-) 2011-08-08 14:40 wolfspraul, I think my knowledge is too poor for now 2011-08-08 14:40 But sure 2011-08-08 15:15 hi guys 2011-08-08 15:15 one question about gmenu2x: 2011-08-08 15:17 on nanonote, the icons of the buttons are shown as "A", "B", etc? 2011-08-08 15:17 I mean, does the the graphic of the "accept" button on gmenu2x is a button with the "A" or "B" letter? If so, would you want to change that? 2011-08-08 15:18 I believe you don't use the "A" letter on your keyboard to launch apps 2011-08-08 15:24 Ayla, it's only shows 'A' 'B', it should be : cancel=keyboard,104#NanoNote H 2011-08-08 15:24 accept=keyboard,13#NanoNote Enter 2011-08-08 15:24 the new gmenu2x input system changed them to cancel and accept I think. 2011-08-08 15:24 I'm speaking about button icons 2011-08-08 15:24 the .png files still show "A" and "B" buttons 2011-08-08 15:26 Ayla, oh. sorry. yes. 2011-08-08 15:26 yes. change to a better one will be great. 2011-08-08 19:25 wpwrak someone on G+ commented thusly re qi-hardware newsletter I pimped today: 2011-08-08 19:25 [1 of 2] 2011-08-08 19:25 Guess what everyone will notice. Milkymist stuff? Open hardware progress? Nope, nyan-cat. (Of course) 2011-08-08 19:26 [2 of 2] Ah yes, and this slide is one of the best, indeed: http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/index.php?title=File:Fisl12.pdf&page=22 2011-08-08 19:34 (working the backlog once more. you guys are killing me. go out for the evening and you have a day's worth of stuff piling up on the channel) 2011-08-08 19:35 rjeffries_: (open loop design) that was in reference to your question about the cost of doing purely the "design" (without making any hardware) for a potential ya 2011-08-08 19:37 rjeffries_: i think you underestimate just how unpredictable making hardware can be. e.g., it's extremely easy to misunderstand how a chip works, and fixing the misunderstanding can be difficult. then, a chip's documentation may claim this or that, but the chip behaves differently. 2011-08-08 19:38 rjeffries_: also, sometimes all you can understand from the data sheet is that you have to be careful about certain things, but you need to combine this with hands-on experience to be sure just how careful, and what happens if you aren't (e.g., because doing what they suggests would conflict with other design goals) 2011-08-08 19:39 rjeffries_: and so on. if you're doing a design with components that you're not already very familiar with, you have no chance if you don't make prototypes and check them. 2011-08-08 19:40 rjeffries_: we also have the issue that our component and footprint libraries are not very complete yet. so this is an additional risk factor. again, it's all well and under control if you actually try things. 2011-08-08 19:42 rjeffries_: (G+ responses) heh ;-) 2011-08-08 19:43 wolfspraul: (hw family) characteristics ? but i think it can stand without "characteristics". if you talk about a family, it's kinda implied that it'll be about some of the characteristics of its members 2011-08-08 19:46 DocScrutinizer: (I have a pretty clear idea where "our" sysops are right now and what they're doing) in the tent where all the raucous singing and drinking happens till the early dawn ? ;) 2011-08-08 19:47 actually I guess they are crawling some cable tunnel or sth, at a location next to berlin 2011-08-08 19:48 (M1 demo videos) one problem are the washed-out colors and the blur. when you see the demo videos, they look "nice" but not very captivating. they look a LOT better in real life. kinda like going from VHS-to-YouTube to a DVD. 2011-08-08 20:19 kristianpaul: yes, when you read data from couple of registers their value is cleared automatically. 2011-08-08 20:28 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ircstat/: IRC traffic analysis (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/db8c6d5 2011-08-08 21:37 [commit] Ayla: Shorted a too long caption on the contextual menu. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/5b49bf0 2011-08-08 21:37 [commit] Ayla: Added a default config file for the Dingux port. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/c5d4cfb 2011-08-08 21:37 [commit] Ayla: Shorted a too long caption on the contextual menu. (2) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/7f08e85 2011-08-08 21:57 Btw way 2011-08-08 21:57 I couldn't NOT see you were interested by marcan's OpenLase project 2011-08-08 21:58 If Qi makes a device that is OpenLase compatible, you can have ALL of my damn money 2011-08-08 22:03 LunaFrizzle: i hope wolfgang records this statement of yours and one day when you're rich and famous, he'll bring it out again ;-) 2011-08-08 22:04 wpwrak, I'll prostitute myself just to get this device ;P 2011-08-08 22:04 Or sell one of my kidneys... sounds familiar ? ;) 2011-08-08 22:04 very good. i think we could put that to good use :) 2011-08-08 22:04 hahaha 2011-08-08 22:05 and the kidney, too :) 2011-08-08 22:05 Back to the serious thing, I still have troubles compiling SDL things on the Ben 2011-08-08 22:06 I need to talk about it to xiangfu 2011-08-08 22:07 I though about a neat thing to do to advertise the Nanonote, I should try to code a demo in the same spirit of the first Macintosh show off by Apple 2011-08-08 22:07 You know, the one with the Chariots of Fire music :P 2011-08-08 22:08 The bad side is, in order to show how capable the device it, I should integrate some 3D in it... too complex for me 2011-08-08 22:09 are the SDL problems caused by the build environment ? or are you uncertain how to use SDL ? 2011-08-08 22:10 wpwrak, the code is a simple C hello world with only #include . I'm sure there's something wrong with the build environment 2011-08-08 22:12 what error do you get ? 2011-08-08 22:16 LunaFrizzle: there's a hacked up branch of openlase with ASCII art output instead of laser output 2011-08-08 22:16 I wrote that while on more than a couple drinks during the 27c3 afterparty 2011-08-08 22:16 to put 3D ascii art on a little PC they had there ;) 2011-08-08 22:18 LunaFrizzle: you should send him a few bottles of cognac ;-) 2011-08-08 22:27 Oh ! I didn't saw you were there marcan :o 2011-08-08 22:27 I'm a big fan of your work ! 2011-08-08 22:27 :) thanks! 2011-08-08 22:32 wpwrak, I think I fixed it. I need to compile more complex code to be sure 2011-08-08 22:32 wpwrak, so far I just installed the uclibcxx package 2011-08-08 22:33 marcan, a few month ago we were still laughing with a college professor about Sony's mistake with the encryption key when using a random number that wasn't random at all 2011-08-08 22:33 lol :D 2011-08-08 22:34 He suggested me that it was a trainee's mistake 'cause he couldn't see any other alternative 2011-08-08 22:34 it's not just Sony, Nintendo botched the Wii signature verification because they strncmp()ed the hash 2011-08-08 22:34 instead of memcmp()ing it 2011-08-08 22:35 Yeah I'm sure they made that kind of thing also 2011-08-08 22:35 Sony is worse though, Nintendo had good design and horrible implementation. Sony has horrible design and horrible implementation 2011-08-08 22:35 Still it was more impressive since the PS3 has been still untouched for a very long time 2011-08-08 22:35 nobody cared because of OtherOS 2011-08-08 22:35 I'm entirely serious, none of the hackers that I know did anything until OtherOS was pulled 2011-08-08 22:36 OtherOS is the only _real_, working PS3 security system, by accident or not :) 2011-08-08 22:36 or, rather, was 2011-08-08 22:36 otherOS was a good idea against piracy... 2011-08-08 22:36 marcan, wow but I wa still hearing people not happy about the fact that they couldn't get full power from the console. That's what Geohot tried to fix initially, right ? 2011-08-08 22:37 not really, geohot started once they had already pulled it from the slim 2011-08-08 22:37 Ah yeah I forgot about that 2011-08-08 22:37 and OtherOS wasn't really _that_ limiting, the _only_ thing it didn't have was 3D graphics 2011-08-08 22:37 Ayla: and pulling it just got everyone very determined to take revenge. very smooth planning on sony's side :) 2011-08-08 22:37 Yeah that's it 2011-08-08 22:37 now we know that GameOS is exactly the same thing with exactly the same interfaces for everything, except the 3D reference to the GPU is nulled out 2011-08-08 22:38 wpwrak: when they retroactively pulled OtherOS from the Fat they basically sealed their fate hard 2011-08-08 22:38 I might buy a second-hand PS3 when people will thing PS3 is lame because of PS4 2011-08-08 22:38 if there's something worse than not allowing homebrew, it's allowing homebrew and then illegally removing the feature retroactively 2011-08-08 22:38 -thing +think 2011-08-08 22:39 haha 2011-08-08 22:40 marcan: yeah, i think we know the answer to whether it is worse to have loved and lost or to never have loved ;-) 2011-08-08 22:40 :) 2011-08-08 22:40 marcan: at least as the geeky kind of love of technology is concerned ;-) 2011-08-08 22:41 oh, I love it when companies do evil stuff, it gives me the motivation to hack their products :P 2011-08-08 22:43 marcan, fail0verfow is still active or did Sony just pushed you down ? 2011-08-08 22:44 I have to admit I didnot quite understood what really happenned and how are the things now 2011-08-08 22:44 (if I can ask...) 2011-08-08 22:44 fail0verflow was never about anything in particular, just a group of people doing stuff 2011-08-08 22:45 the lawsuit made us go into stealth mode regarding the PS3 and then we got bored of the PS3 2011-08-08 22:45 no code release then ? 2011-08-08 22:45 we already released everything : 2011-08-08 22:45 *:P 2011-08-08 22:45 What ? 2011-08-08 22:45 the ps3 tools, asbestos, noralizer 2011-08-08 22:45 Dammit I'm always the last one informed :( 2011-08-08 22:45 that stuff got released like a week after 27c3 2011-08-08 22:45 Oh ok 2011-08-08 22:45 Damn 2011-08-08 22:46 it got pulled later due to the lawsuit, but there are tons of mirrors 2011-08-08 22:46 When I heard you saying "It still need a lot of cleaning" I was like "oh shit, not after 32months or so" 2011-08-08 22:46 well, it did still need a lot of cleaning, but then the lawsuit happened and we got bored 2011-08-08 22:46 Ok, good to know marcan :) 2011-08-08 22:46 Ok I understand 2011-08-08 22:46 and in the meantime lots of other people started going about their own way with the PS3 2011-08-08 22:47 but basically everything we had/used for the demo was published 2011-08-08 22:47 and it was in fact significantly cleaner, some of the hacks we used for the demo were... hilariously horrid. 2011-08-08 22:47 picture brute-forcing zlib lengths to match the compressed size because we didn't have a working self creator yet 2011-08-08 22:48 the tools did come with a working self packer afterwards ;) 2011-08-08 22:49 haha 2011-08-08 22:49 Good to know :) 2011-08-08 22:49 Good thing I'm broke or that would have make me buy a ps3 2011-08-08 22:50 also, dhewg (Andre Heider) is working on getting some clean PS3 Linux patches upstream 2011-08-08 22:50 (to support all the new GameOS stuff) 2011-08-08 22:50 including cleaning up my ugly patches ;) 2011-08-08 22:51 but yeah, fail0verflow is just a bunch of hackers doing random stuff, mostly an offshoot of the iPhone Dev Team and Team Twiizers (wii) 2011-08-08 22:51 there are other projects in the works, probably nowhere near as media-attention-grabbing as the PS3 stuff, but still interesting 2011-08-08 22:52 (probably nowhere near as lawsuit-inducing too :P) 2011-08-08 22:53 found some mirros 2011-08-08 22:53 there's really few code in fact ! 2011-08-08 22:53 (or maybe my mirror is clumsy) 2011-08-08 22:54 well, asbestos is public at http://git.marcansoft.com/?p=asbestos.git;a=summary , I never took that down entirely, just filtered out some ancient PS3 exploit stuff that nobody had used anyway 2011-08-08 22:56 is the PS3 fully open now? 2011-08-08 22:56 then there's noralizer, which is just a fairly generic nor reader/writer FPGA thing, and the tools to work with PS3 formats/crypto 2011-08-08 22:56 ok :) 2011-08-08 22:56 it's easy to run homebrew? 2011-08-08 22:56 Ayla: there are many gradations of "open", I don't think anything is "fully open" :P 2011-08-08 22:56 Thanks marcan 2011-08-08 22:57 Ayla: if you're running an older firmware, yes. if you're running a newer firmware, no, but that's entirely predictable 2011-08-08 22:57 every existing PS3 (except for maybe the most recent batches) can be flashed via hardware to run homebrew though, that's what we "broke" 2011-08-08 22:57 I thought the official signing key was found, thus it was possible to sign homebrew? 2011-08-08 22:58 yes, but obviously they changed the key for newer firmwares (and just keep a whitelist of existing games) 2011-08-08 22:58 there are certain "absolutes" that you can hit in security 2011-08-08 22:58 ok 2011-08-08 22:58 it's nice when there's, say, a vulnerable ROM that lets you exploit existing systems forever in software, but the PS3 has no such thing 2011-08-08 22:59 Hehehe people are all asking PS3's firmware on second-hand websites 2011-08-08 22:59 the absolute that we did hit is that you can hardware-flash all PS3s to run homebrew 2011-08-08 22:59 and you can run homebrew on PS3s with (now) old firmware 2011-08-08 22:59 taking over the firmware update proceess would be the only way to keep control, I guess 2011-08-08 22:59 but then you'd have to patch every new firmware release 2011-08-08 22:59 ok 2011-08-08 23:00 well, sony hid the new firmware's keys inside by wraping them in bootldr, which is the single last unbroken thing in the PS3 2011-08-08 23:00 ah, so a patched firmware won't even boot then 2011-08-08 23:00 you can't decrypt the latest firmwares (or any games released for them) 2011-08-08 23:00 it's unbroken because the people who want to break it want to do so for piracy and the people who want piracy tend not to be very good at breaking things in practice 2011-08-08 23:00 marcan, so if someone break it, Sony won't have anymore places to hide ? 2011-08-08 23:01 heh, that's actually true 2011-08-08 23:01 (bootldr is vulnerable to the same issues, and the keys have been used with the same non-random numbers, but for practical reasons you need hardware to exploit it and not that many people know what they're doing) 2011-08-08 23:01 LunaFrizzle: correct 2011-08-08 23:01 wow 2011-08-08 23:01 end of the world or something for Sony then 2011-08-08 23:01 if someone gets the bootldr keys then Sony cannot hide new firmwares and games from people 2011-08-08 23:02 basically they'd entirely lose any chance at protecting newer games 2011-08-08 23:02 since all the PS3's cryptographic secrets would be divulged, i.e. by necessity anything they do will have to be decryptable by existing hardware and we'd have all the keys 2011-08-08 23:02 can't say I wouldn't like to see such a thing happen 2011-08-08 23:02 what they did right now is a hack, btw 2011-08-08 23:02 up until recently bootldr was only used early on in the boot chain and was largely irrelevant 2011-08-08 23:02 Even if I won't use it, just to see SOny's reaction 2011-08-08 23:02 but since it's the only bit left, they wrapped everything else inside the bootldr crypto 2011-08-08 23:03 it's funny, because we theorized they could do this, and then geohot claimed if they hired him he'd help them "fix" things (he was definitely referring to this idea too) 2011-08-08 23:04 and of course that's what they ended up doing 2011-08-08 23:04 it really is their last chance though 2011-08-08 23:04 they're probably hoping it will last until the PS4 launch; it doesn't have to last forever 2011-08-08 23:04 possibly 2011-08-08 23:04 the PS4 has been announced? 2011-08-08 23:04 I haven't heard anything about the PS4 yet though, so it's probably not close to launch 2011-08-08 23:04 the PS4 will be... interesting 2011-08-08 23:04 Ayla, they said they'll put less money in it so far 2011-08-08 23:04 I highly doubt it will be backwards-compatible 2011-08-08 23:05 I'm not really following video games news 2011-08-08 23:05 Ayla, I don't think it's anymore "video games" at this state. Business maybe 2011-08-08 23:05 I wonder if they've fired their engineering team or if they're still going to design a hilariously cost-unoptimized design again 2011-08-08 23:05 this should amuse the people in here, some gems about the original PS3 hardware design 2011-08-08 23:06 LunaFrizzle: that's sad, but true :( 2011-08-08 23:06 they put WiFi in the PS3, fair enough 2011-08-08 23:06 but instead of using a USB or SDIO device like everyone else, they decided to... put a wireless router inside the PS3 and have it act as a WiFi to Ethernet bridge 2011-08-08 23:06 complete with its own marvell ARM SoC running eCos 2011-08-08 23:06 wow wtf ? 2011-08-08 23:07 and since the chipset only has one GMII port, they put an 8-port gigabit switch inside the PS3 2011-08-08 23:07 it really is overengineered 2011-08-08 23:07 one gigE port for the external plug,one GMII port for the chipset 2011-08-08 23:07 one 10/100 port for the wlan 2011-08-08 23:07 the rest, unused 2011-08-08 23:07 they use VLANs to separate the traffic 2011-08-08 23:07 speaking of the chipset, it has more die area than the Cell 2011-08-08 23:07 sounds like they took a prototype and did a 1:1 translation to make it a product 2011-08-08 23:08 marcan: awesome :D 2011-08-08 23:08 it has a built-in graphics and DRAM subsystem, PCI Express, a MIPS processor, media accelerators, ... 2011-08-08 23:08 all entirely unused 2011-08-08 23:08 (it's meant for STBs and TVs) 2011-08-08 23:09 the original chipset only had IDE though, no SATA, so they used an IDE to SATA converter for the HDD 2011-08-08 23:09 then they came out with a new revision of the chipset, with SATA 2011-08-08 23:09 but since it didn't have IDE, and their Blu-Ray drive was IDE, they kept the IDE to SATA bridge... in reverse 2011-08-08 23:09 let me guess 2011-08-08 23:09 ah, ok 2011-08-08 23:09 they had a plan once to use the PS3 as an STB; said the Cell was powerful enough to demultiplex transport streams; but I don't think it ever materialized 2011-08-08 23:11 marcan, no wonder why they lost so much money in the PS3 (?) 2011-08-08 23:11 more funsies, in older PS3s with 4 USB ports they use a built-in USB hub, since the chipset doesn't have enough ports 2011-08-08 23:11 in newer ones with two ports, they do have enough ports... but they kept using the hub 2011-08-08 23:11 LunaFrizzle: exactly. 2011-08-08 23:11 it's by far the worst cost-optimization (or lack thereof) I've ever seen 2011-08-08 23:11 they finally got their act together with the slim and removed the switch, the vlans, the wifi router (now it's just usb), the hub, the SATA... 2011-08-08 23:12 but that's after losing a LOT of money on the Fats 2011-08-08 23:12 marcan, you mean the slim is a fixed ps3 ? 2011-08-08 23:12 design-wise, it's what the PS3 should've been from the get go 2011-08-08 23:12 ok 2011-08-08 23:14 you bet it's slim now :p 2011-08-08 23:14 marcan, sorry to have bothered you with the ps3, maybe you wanted to talk about something else 2011-08-08 23:14 the funny part is it's not that much smaller than the original PS3 :P 2011-08-08 23:14 in fact it's deeper 2011-08-08 23:15 LunaFrizzle: nah, I'm bored :) 2011-08-08 23:15 hehe 2011-08-08 23:25 soooo they'll build a 'discount' PS4? 2011-08-08 23:26 "Doesn't play games, just pretend you have a functionnal PS4 to your friends, only 899$" 2011-08-08 23:27 don't forget the Blu-Ray2 reader 2011-08-08 23:28 and 3D... or is that hype already past? 2011-08-08 23:28 wpwrak: ok, Milkymist Hardware Family Characteristics it is - thanks! 2011-08-08 23:28 mth, intra-neuronal connection will be the next big thing... wait no 2011-08-08 23:29 LunaFrizzle: I'll wait a while until they got all the bugs out... ;) 2011-08-08 23:29 marcan: did you know that Andrew Zonenberg will work on a MEMS mirror next? 2011-08-08 23:30 ugh, nvidia's blob crashed, did I miss anything? (besides what wolfspraul just said, I got that :) 2011-08-08 23:30 nope 2011-08-08 23:30 Just some trolling 2011-08-08 23:31 wolfspraul: a MEMS mirror for? 2011-08-08 23:41 you tell me :-) for a laser? 2011-08-08 23:42 Andrew's project is a home MEMS and CMOS fab 2011-08-08 23:42 http://code.google.com/p/homecmos/source/browse/trunk/lithography-tests/labnotes/azonenberg_labnotes.txt 2011-08-08 23:42 his process can only produce one die at a time, but still... maybe something useful comes out of it one day... 2011-08-08 23:44 wolfspraul: huh, wow 2011-08-08 23:46 that's amazing 2011-08-08 23:58 yes it is :-) next steps are comb drive and mirror. no idea where it goes but we try to find any form of use case asap. 2011-08-08 23:58 if you want some of that stuff for a laser project, let me know and I can try to recreate his fab process and manufacture some :-)