2011-08-02 00:23 wpwrak: yes, working on the news 2011-08-02 00:27 and yes you are right, there are many things from with the news :-) 2011-08-02 00:27 first, it's too much 2011-08-02 00:27 then, too few readers 2011-08-02 00:28 finally, the news are too much like a technical log book, like a university following various student projects 2011-08-02 00:28 social and marketing stuff is missing 2011-08-02 00:32 yeah, you picked a rather dry style. i think bit more "juice" will make it more digestable 2011-08-02 00:32 how many readers are there ? 2011-08-02 00:33 maybe 500 2011-08-02 00:34 I'm not exactly sure, of course we could put more efforts into pushing it out 2011-08-02 00:34 but then we become a news organization 2011-08-02 00:34 well, that's still a decent number 2011-08-02 00:34 ;-)) 2011-08-02 00:34 oh sure, could be more even 2011-08-02 00:35 another approach would be to come out with snippets that are reusable by blogs 2011-08-02 00:35 need to discuss with rejon 2011-08-02 00:35 I agree that the current style is dead-end, more like an archive 2011-08-02 00:36 yeah, smaller pieces may work better than one big load every months or, worse, a cobweb-covered encyclopedia every two months 2011-08-02 00:36 :-) 2011-08-02 00:36 need to continue today actually, I'm at most 50% done with cleanup 2011-08-02 00:36 I guess there will be no video of your talk, unfortunately 2011-08-02 00:43 ah well, at least we have the slides :) 2011-08-02 00:46 wpwrak: you will like this http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:M1_rc3_0x37_u20s_mark_is_faked.png 2011-08-02 00:47 Adam thinks he found the first root cause of our rc3 yield/testing problems, in the form of fake TI parts :-) 2011-08-02 00:47 about 1/3rd of fake parts mixed into the reel 2011-08-02 00:47 bah 2011-08-02 00:47 yeah 2011-08-02 00:47 good to have a narrative intro and then the bullet points are good 2011-08-02 00:48 rc4 sourcing will use digikey much more, maybe I start boomifying the bom a little 2011-08-02 00:48 we can call it ChangeLog 2011-08-02 00:48 :) 2011-08-02 00:48 QiLog 2011-08-02 00:48 yeah, i can help push it out today 2011-08-02 00:48 rejon: not sure about log. that implies that you can read it later. 2011-08-02 00:48 no no, wait 2011-08-02 00:48 it's not finished yet 2011-08-02 00:48 i know 2011-08-02 00:48 if you want to write something up top, good 2011-08-02 00:48 we can also just have as a long list and encourage others to spread it by writing something up top 2011-08-02 00:49 we need to rethink the news approach anyway 2011-08-02 00:49 above the list 2011-08-02 00:49 we have to make it 'news' that new software is released for the Ben or m1 2011-08-02 00:49 we cannot just wait until our news are factually so irresistible that someone just has to report about them. that's crazy. 2011-08-02 00:50 I wanted to wait with spending a seriously bigger amount of time on this again until after I have m1 in stock. 2011-08-02 00:50 which is real-soon-now 2011-08-02 00:56 wow. fake parts. lovely. 2011-08-02 00:57 make sure you mention the distributor :) 2011-08-02 00:58 bought in Shenzhen. but it's not easy to blame, or rather to draw the right conclusions. 2011-08-02 00:58 well. someone's making a few cents, knowing that this costs you hundreds of dollars. it's not too hard to draw conclusions from that :-) 2011-08-02 00:59 first it's sad, I waste a couple more thousand USD and a few weeks delay. ok. got over that. 2011-08-02 00:59 then... 2011-08-02 00:59 boom is the right idea 2011-08-02 00:59 I love boom. 2011-08-02 00:59 it's so right 2011-08-02 00:59 we have sourced all/most parts of the jtag-serial run with boom (digikey), we should try the same with m1, asap 2011-08-02 01:00 no, drawing conclusions is not easy 2011-08-02 01:00 (boom) ah yes, one of these days i'll have to teach it tape and reel ... 2011-08-02 01:00 ok yes, every news item should be important 2011-08-02 01:00 in hindsight vision is 20/20, that is easy to agree on 2011-08-02 01:00 its hard to have so much though for people to grab onto 2011-08-02 01:01 esp. news writers 2011-08-02 01:01 not like M1 released 2011-08-02 01:01 but I can tell you endless individual items where you have to use different sourcing approaches to be successful 2011-08-02 01:01 or nanonote has wireless 2011-08-02 01:01 like we had terrible problems with the ethernet connector 2011-08-02 01:01 and I ended up paying 8 USD for each one 2011-08-02 01:01 not nice 2011-08-02 01:02 on rc3 we have a high quality Taiwan Ethernet connector that costs 1.10 USD 2011-08-02 01:02 there are many things that are simply unavailable on digikey, and maybe always will be 2011-08-02 01:02 you remember marcan the other day with his galvos... 2011-08-02 01:02 touch panels 2011-08-02 01:02 lcms 2011-08-02 01:03 some parts have high moq/lead-time on digikey 2011-08-02 01:04 but anyway. boom is the right thing. 2011-08-02 01:05 digikey (and competitors) are probably the best choice for any part that they have stocked in quantity 2011-08-02 01:06 if digikey stocks 1000 or more of something, sourcing it there is a safe bet, economically and quality-wise 2011-08-02 01:08 and once you make enough money to hire some muscle, you may want to pay whoever sold you those fake parts a friendly visit :) 2011-08-02 01:09 no, all fine 2011-08-02 01:09 I know how this happens 2011-08-02 01:09 ;-) 2011-08-02 01:09 once :) 2011-08-02 01:09 the problem is on my end, as a manufacturer I need to be good on sourcing 2011-08-02 01:09 'good' can mean many different things, depending on part and other circumstances 2011-08-02 01:10 we should make a sourcing guide too, it could help many people 2011-08-02 01:10 you cannot have it all ways, I see the responsibility for buying this reel 100% on my side 2011-08-02 01:10 such parts should have been sourced from digikey 2011-08-02 01:11 they would even have been cheaper, as we paid too much again :-) 77 cents! 2011-08-02 01:11 at digikey it's 10-20 cents depending on quantity 2011-08-02 01:12 wpwrak: can boom be extended to schmitt-triggers, or they have too many parameters? 2011-08-02 01:12 I mean to automatically pick one :-) 2011-08-02 01:13 what I could do about this reel indeed is to try to follow back into the supply chain 2011-08-02 01:13 I want to visit the crappy little factory that makes fake TI parts and mixes them into reels of real TI parts 2011-08-02 01:13 :-) 2011-08-02 01:13 since I'm one of their customers :-) 2011-08-02 01:14 actually this could even work, if I spend the time for such an investigation. there's a huge spot market and all sorts of things are happening there. 2011-08-02 01:15 but I rather focus on the good side 2011-08-02 01:15 (schmitt-trigger) you'd identify them by gate type, not really by parameter. you could add a parameter that describes the gate, but that may get confusing 2011-08-02 01:24 The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-08012011-1629/ 2011-08-02 03:25 whats boom? 2011-08-02 03:25 roh: my BOM procesor 2011-08-02 03:28 just found parts of it... you should add a guide how to add more stuff to it 2011-08-02 03:28 and how to use it 2011-08-02 03:30 once it's a bit more "finished". right now it's pretty chaotic, for me too ;-) 2011-08-02 03:33 heh 2011-08-02 03:33 can you make it scrape octoparts? 2011-08-02 03:35 they also have some pretty nasty self produced items ;) http://octopart.com/ocpt-10003-octopart-2837472 2011-08-02 03:35 no 2011-08-02 03:35 bad 2011-08-02 03:35 octopart is very bad, werner's boom is 100 times better 2011-08-02 03:36 roh: nice part ;) 2011-08-02 03:36 the idea of boom is to start with simple passive stuff, resistors, capacitors 2011-08-02 03:37 and then connect it to distributors with real stock 2011-08-02 03:37 like digikey, mouser 2011-08-02 03:37 wolfspraul: hm? i thought octoparts is only a meta-searchmachine listing all sellers? 2011-08-02 03:37 yes but it's a mess 2011-08-02 03:37 I think we should start with quality distributors first, and factor in their stock levels 2011-08-02 03:38 octopart throws together companies with totally different business models 2011-08-02 03:38 wrong data? it whats the issue.. i was thinking of only searching via it. deciding stuff in boom 2011-08-02 03:38 nothing in stock, high moq, long lead-times 2011-08-02 03:38 octoparts doesnt sell parts themselves as far as i know 2011-08-02 03:38 sure I search with octopart too, it's better than google for sure 2011-08-02 03:39 but it's also not very different to google :-) 2011-08-02 03:47 roh: at present, boom will not consider shipping costs or lead-times, I think 2011-08-02 03:47 wpwrak: does it consider MOQ and stock-level? I forgot ;-) 2011-08-02 03:48 roh: boom will also automatically look at volume discounts and pick the volume that is cheapest for the upcoming run 2011-08-02 03:48 basically it helps remove a lot of tedious work from sourcing 2011-08-02 03:49 one of the next planned features was to add support for reels and digi-reels (@digikey) - maybe trays later 2011-08-02 03:49 well.. cheap isnt always good as we learnt ;) 2011-08-02 03:49 where did we learn that? 2011-08-02 03:49 ah. right.. you didnt even buy it cheap 2011-08-02 03:50 :-) 2011-08-02 03:50 sourcing is hard, I have no illusions 2011-08-02 03:50 i just checked the U20 on octoparts.. looks like theyre all there 2011-08-02 03:50 just lots of variants of that thing... 2011-08-02 03:50 boom has the exact right approach to help reduce costs significantly, and increase quality 2011-08-02 03:51 i guess it doesnt matter if you buy at dk mouser or farnell.. but there are seldomly the cheapest 2011-08-02 03:51 imagine you have a free hardware project and with a few clicks you can have a complete shopping list for digikey - very cool I think 2011-08-02 03:51 i wonder whats the difference between the 80cent and the 11cent variant in the same case 2011-08-02 03:51 nah 2011-08-02 03:51 see that's the thing. digikey may very well be the cheapest. or mouser, or farnell. 2011-08-02 03:52 the problem is there are huge databases 2011-08-02 03:52 how to efficiently scan them? software! 2011-08-02 03:52 exactly.. i was just thinking of using the advantage that somebody already did the gruntwork to unify access to all these distributors 2011-08-02 03:52 and you think octopart did that? 2011-08-02 03:53 me too, a while back :-) until I just tried to use them, and then you see it's all wrong. 2011-08-02 03:53 yes. they started with scaping and later made deals with the distros remaining 2011-08-02 03:53 wolfspraul: yes, stock and MOQ (and quantity discounts). but not lead time. 2011-08-02 03:53 they want to be like google, just a little more specialized 2011-08-02 03:53 roh: all wrong, really. does not match with what I've learnt in sourcing at all. 2011-08-02 03:53 also removed some unwilling distributors who threatened them 2011-08-02 03:54 boom is the right approach, start with the bom out of kicad, try to parameterize. start with the cheapest components, connect to databases of known high-quality distributors. 2011-08-02 03:54 http://octopart.com/api/overview, then filter by a list of known good distributors. 2011-08-02 03:54 their api will only obfuscate the underlying reality 2011-08-02 03:55 they are not adding any value imo 2011-08-02 03:55 boom builds the shopping list out of the bom which is out of kicad 2011-08-02 03:55 it will add the value of them keeping it up to date with changes at all distributors for you.. abstraction. 2011-08-02 03:56 exactly what I don't want in sourcing :-) 2011-08-02 03:56 also.. nasty legal trouble if you scrape too much 2011-08-02 03:56 I want to factor in reliable shipping and lead times as well, in addition to reliable MOQ and stock levels :-) 2011-08-02 03:56 I expect zero legal trouble for a tool like boom, in fact we should ask digikey to sponsor it. 2011-08-02 03:56 wolfspraul these you can cherry pick later when you have a list of selections done 2011-08-02 03:57 no it won't work, it's a crazy amount of work 2011-08-02 03:57 I'm a boom believer 2011-08-02 03:57 :-) 2011-08-02 03:57 octopart was my sinner times 2011-08-02 03:58 I can check again, but I doubt their model will fly. we will see. I don't understand what value they add for sure. 2011-08-02 03:58 if I were digikey I would indeed not like something like octopart 2011-08-02 03:58 but I wouldn't fight it either, just ignore. it's like google in the end. 2011-08-02 03:59 ok, maybe block their IP if it gets too bad :-) 2011-08-02 04:00 the reason I would not like it is not because they allow comparison with others, but because I would be worried that the quality of my service is ruined by them. 2011-08-02 04:00 let's say digikey's stock numbers are real, and the stock numbers of some other 'website' are fake 2011-08-02 04:00 ok? 2011-08-02 04:00 who will audit the other distributors? 2011-08-02 04:00 octopart? 2011-08-02 04:00 no way 2011-08-02 04:00 I don't want to be in that pool, as a quality distributor with real stock. 2011-08-02 04:01 wolfspraul: they have some program running it seems to make sure they get real data 2011-08-02 04:01 'real data', ha ha 2011-08-02 04:01 I should setup a website just to proove my point. little 'incoming order redirection' business 2011-08-02 04:02 check their blog. seems the users put quite some pressure on the distributors to get listed after delisting themselves. 2011-08-02 04:02 you mean octopart users want to see all distis? for sure 2011-08-02 04:02 I use it too 2011-08-02 04:02 quick and dirty overview 2011-08-02 04:02 but useless for sourcing 2011-08-02 04:03 I tried to tell you why if I were at digikey, I would not like it. 2011-08-02 04:03 because for example take stock level 2011-08-02 04:03 who audits the others? 2011-08-02 04:03 nobody! 2011-08-02 04:03 wolfspraul: why? it means more business coming your way. 2011-08-02 04:03 so that means my stock levels, let's say they are real, are compared with fake stock levels of my competitors 2011-08-02 04:03 wolfspraul: octopart will. because its in their interrest. 2011-08-02 04:03 not fair 2011-08-02 04:03 I don't want to be in that market/pool. 2011-08-02 04:03 no they cannot 2011-08-02 04:04 I highly doubt that 2011-08-02 04:04 no distributor would let octopart people audit their warehouse 2011-08-02 04:04 for me for example dk is pain. delivery times, buerocratic madness, shitty payment foo etc. 2011-08-02 04:04 which ones do you like? 2011-08-02 04:05 means for me boom is useless as long as it doesnt list real european sellers. not us sellers with a bad customercenter only in europe 2011-08-02 04:05 fully understood. that's valuable. so which ones do you like? 2011-08-02 04:05 i get most of stuff from segor, rs components, seldomly farnell, lots of conrad and voelkner (really fast shipping) 2011-08-02 04:05 well great :-) 2011-08-02 04:05 a lot of good work for boom 2011-08-02 04:06 i use mercateo a lot, but its not that well done for electronic parts, more for 'devices' 2011-08-02 04:06 the boom approach is to start with cheap parts that are relatively easy to parameterize 2011-08-02 04:06 that will clear out your bom a lot, and leave you with a much smaller set to source 'manually' 2011-08-02 04:06 especiually because they do central billing. not having to have accounts in N vendor shops rocks. 2011-08-02 04:06 sure 2011-08-02 04:07 so you use octopart just for general searching as well, it sounds 2011-08-02 04:07 like google, just a bit more specialized 2011-08-02 04:07 it's not a sourcing tool 2011-08-02 04:07 i get one bill per order, even if ther are multiple distros in play that way 2011-08-02 04:07 one bill from octopart? 2011-08-02 04:07 i'd like to use octoparts more but its currently too us centric for me 2011-08-02 04:07 who is giving you one bill for multiple distros? 2011-08-02 04:08 wolfspraul: mercateo. i dont order at conrad or so directly. i search and order via mercateo (b2b sap driven platform) and get one bill, and it optimizes for cost over the distros which are in direct competition 2011-08-02 04:08 ah nice 2011-08-02 04:09 maybe mercateo is doing this the right way :-) 2011-08-02 04:09 to be honest I don't understand octopart's model, so I should not qualify it either. they probably have a plan, and/or it may be changing over time as they learn. I don't know, I am not following closely. 2011-08-02 04:10 helped me a lot. sadly its often not as fast to use as i'd like and there are sometimes 20 very similar or identical things which it doesnt get is 'one' and thus optimizing still needs some handywork to be perfect 2011-08-02 04:10 I can imagine that it's cracking quite a bit, with distis being kicked out, kicking out themselves, kicked back in, etc. etc. 2011-08-02 04:10 that's not surprising :-) 2011-08-02 04:10 e.g. if ordernumbers for different packagesizes do'nt get put into the db right to match one product or so 2011-08-02 04:10 yep 2011-08-02 04:10 a.. forgot some important sellers (non-mercateo) reichelt electronics and pollin 2011-08-02 04:11 maybe i'd use digikey if they would do 24h shipping for 4E/package 2011-08-02 04:12 also depends on where their warehouses are 2011-08-02 04:12 and dont bury me with import foobar paperwork and credit contracts 2011-08-02 04:12 for example mouser has a warehouse in HK or Taiwan, so it's great in Taiwan 2011-08-02 04:12 well, exactly. those details are important! 2011-08-02 04:12 if you talk about 'sourcing' as in 'getting the real stuff fast and cheap' 2011-08-02 04:13 roh: digi-key are actually among the easiest to order internationally from :) 2011-08-02 04:13 wpwrak: maybe if you are already at the end of the world ;) 2011-08-02 04:15 wpwrak: as a european without a credit card its pretty annoying. they cant do timely bank transfer or even 'einzug' for some reason to its slow 2011-08-02 04:15 and if you order a beagleboard you get paperwork asking if youre a terrorist and why you import us stuff 2011-08-02 04:16 'without credit card' is unimaginable in the us 2011-08-02 04:16 roh: duh. why don't you add other interesting constraints ? like payment only in cash, with reichsmark ? ;-) 2011-08-02 04:17 I remember seeing tourists stranded and crying, whole families, when finding out that they cannot get the rental car that was fully prepaid in New York, because the computer system insists on a credit card for insurance reasons 2011-08-02 04:17 well, roh has the right to not like them and prefer others, for his reasons 2011-08-02 04:17 don't digi-key also accept bank transfers ? 2011-08-02 04:17 but he is doing exactly what I think octopart will be weak in, he is zooming in on particular details of an actual purchase transaction 2011-08-02 04:18 as a US business I can imagine that they see little additional sales in the 'have no credit card' market 2011-08-02 04:18 maybe only for large businesses, setup a contract etc. 2011-08-02 04:19 wolfspraul: i think they do handle "no credit card", too. but of course, then you have to wire the money first. 2011-08-02 04:19 I'm just explaining the US perspective to roh. 2011-08-02 04:19 not that he has to accept it, but that's their perspective, so yes, roh goes with German distis and it's great 2011-08-02 04:19 wolfspraul: well.. outside of the 3rd world there are well working debit systems. even in taiwan i got money with it. no reasons for prehistoric kludges working like electronic versions of a 'cheque' 2011-08-02 04:19 wolfspraul: or the alternative would be to have a credit account with digi-key themselves, yes. of course that's even more difficult. 2011-08-02 04:20 I didn't ask you to accept it, or like it. just explaining :-) 2011-08-02 04:20 i mean.. i have _never_ filled in a cheque. nobody does that. 2011-08-02 04:21 most people in germany only have visa or mastercards if they are for free and for ordering outside of europe via the internet or on the road. in germany there isnt any need for a creditcard. everybody takes debit and is happy. it gurantees you get your money as a merchant (when using card and pin, which basically every store does) 2011-08-02 04:22 yes but in the US it's not like that, and digikey is a US company 2011-08-02 04:22 roh: now you just have to convince digi-key to move to germany and your problem is solved ;-) 2011-08-02 04:22 and its not ordering only from inland. its ordering preferrably inside europe. simply because money moving is easier and does cost not a cent (by law) 2011-08-02 04:23 wpwrak: well.. they got a german webshop. just no good deals (18E shipping if you order <65E) 2011-08-02 04:24 wpwrak: mostly ordering from the us is the same level or annoyment and work as ordering directly from china 2011-08-02 04:24 roh: only EUR 18 ?? wow. 2011-08-02 04:24 wpwrak: well.. the market level is usually 4-6E shipping below 100E value. time is 2-3 working days, for some 24hours for stock parts 2011-08-02 04:24 here it's USD 40, and that's dirt cheap in comparison to what shipping costs at other places 2011-08-02 04:25 "market level" = within germany, i guess 2011-08-02 04:25 does anybody know where digikey has warehouses? 2011-08-02 04:25 all in one place? 2011-08-02 04:25 wpwrak: lets make it central europe. france and similar isnt much more expensive (maybe 7euros or so 2011-08-02 04:26 wolfspraul: from what i can read the stuff gets sent from texas to cologne and then to the customer. no real stock here. only handling 2011-08-02 04:26 all I've ever seen at distis was one number for stock-level, as if they have 1 warehouse 2011-08-02 04:27 hm. i should talk to the us hackers on the camp if they know people at octoparts.. would like to meet them and pick their brains. 2011-08-02 04:27 I think any sourcing tool must be flexible and allow the user to override preferences. just the direction boom is taking. 2011-08-02 04:27 because the quality of those parameters may also change over time. 2011-08-02 04:27 after all.. they are in the middle of something we all need somehow in some way 2011-08-02 04:28 say digikey gets new management, and they decide to work a little differently with the stock levels in the database, to squeeze out more profits. 2011-08-02 04:28 who will notice? how will customers react? it must be in the hands of those making the purchase decisions (the ones doing the sourcing) 2011-08-02 04:29 exactly like roh says he has 'his' distributors that he trusts and uses for this or that reason 2011-08-02 04:29 wolfspraul: my trust is not easy to earn. that only works by good service and not making complications. and if they happen there needs to be a will to fix stuff fast and make it not happen again. 2011-08-02 04:29 roh: yes, and they are in a very bad spot. because they deal with a lot of data without doing actual sourcing :-) 2011-08-02 04:30 they can try to build feedback channels, but it will be all a quality mess 2011-08-02 04:30 means if some distro fucks up the same twice i will not use them again if possible, even if the alternative is more expensive to avoid the trouble 2011-08-02 04:30 quite normal 2011-08-02 04:30 most people who work in sourcing have 'approved vendor lists' and what not 2011-08-02 04:31 roh: the alternative is not more expensive because it helps you save the cost of cleaning up the mess otherwise 2011-08-02 04:32 so you are actually trying to find the cheapest one, the actually cheapest one 2011-08-02 04:32 exactly. says somebody with experience. ;) 2011-08-02 04:32 which is an ongoing and never-ending process, in hardware 2011-08-02 04:50 marcan: what is the largest display one could create with your laser projector? at what distance can it still project a recognizable image? 2011-08-02 04:51 can you project a 20x20m big image? on something over a distance of 100m or more? :-) just curious how to calculate this and what factors affect it 2011-08-02 05:38 aw: hi :-) 2011-08-02 05:38 wolfspraul, hi es 2011-08-02 05:39 I looked at the numbers a bit more http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_run_3_schedule#Classifications_of_Failure 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â Impedance err - 10 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â Current - 2 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â Flash - 11 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â VGA DDC - 6 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â No VGA Screen - 23 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â Audio Circuit - 2 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â Ethernet ARP - 1 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â Video I2C - 1 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â MIDI - 11/ 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â USB - 16 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 Â Â Â Â Rendering - 3 / 90 2011-08-02 05:39 how many of those do you think we can assume to be potentially fixable with a u7/u19/u20 replacement? 2011-08-02 05:40 yup..the root cause of No Screen issue is by Schmitter-Trigger part is bad 2011-08-02 05:40 the 'vga no screen' (23), and 'midi' (11) and 'usb' (16)? 2011-08-02 05:41 supposedly that we can fix most 'No VGA Screen' and 'MIDI' if they are related to that the same Schmitt-Trigger ship failure 2011-08-02 05:41 how about usb, flash, impedance? 2011-08-02 05:41 the 'usb' I've not investigate it though 2011-08-02 05:41 ok 2011-08-02 05:42 flash...failures don't know yet 2011-08-02 05:42 impedance? 2011-08-02 05:42 this afternoon I'll see if Schmitt-Trigger part influence with 'impedance' failure. 2011-08-02 05:43 ok 2011-08-02 05:43 well it looks like we don't need xray after all, right now 2011-08-02 05:43 first replace all u7/u19/u20 2011-08-02 05:43 interesting about those 3 rendering cases 2011-08-02 05:43 so those were boards that already were rendering, but then there was a problem, right? 2011-08-02 05:44 since the Schmitt-trigger parts are used in MIDI & VGA circuits, so the most those failures must be caused by it. 2011-08-02 05:44 that's clear 2011-08-02 05:44 yes, temporarily no need to take X-ray now, we see later here what I can spot soon 2011-08-02 05:44 I'm looking at the list overall 2011-08-02 05:45 usb, impedance, flash - still some big blocks with unknown root causes 2011-08-02 05:45 and also those strange 3 'rendering' cases, let's see how this develops later 2011-08-02 05:46 also the Schmitt-trigger chips are connected relevantly to +5V as well as 3V3, so it's also possibly dependent to 'impedance' failures. I'll know soon. 2011-08-02 05:46 ok 2011-08-02 05:46 well it looks like you are on a good path 2011-08-02 05:46 you won't run out of work soon :-) 2011-08-02 05:47 how many boards do you have with all 3 u7/u19/u20 already replaced with good ones? 2011-08-02 05:47 or do you plan to replace all 270 again? 2011-08-02 05:47 yes, ;-) I got see more boards then get solid conclusions. 2011-08-02 05:48 if you have boards where all three u7/u19/u20 are good, and you plan no further rework on them, and they pass 100%, then you can try to do long-term rendering testing with them 2011-08-02 05:48 from those data I marked as OOO or OXX etc...the results are unreliable to the rc3 boards on both MIDI & VGA circuits 2011-08-02 05:49 but only if you have 100% finished boards, otherwise we pickup too much noise 2011-08-02 05:49 so I planed to rework them all (270pcs) with new parts later. 2011-08-02 05:49 since you have enough power supplies now, you can just let 5 or 10 boards render for 24h or more 2011-08-02 05:49 ah ok 2011-08-02 05:49 then we wait with long rendering tests until after that 2011-08-02 05:49 otherwise too much noise 2011-08-02 05:50 ok 2011-08-02 05:50 in the meantime you can zoom in on all those other blocks, as you plan already 2011-08-02 05:50 usb, impedance, flash, also the more exotic ones like audio codec... 2011-08-02 05:51 the audio codec reason I knew already caused by L1's footprint is too big 2011-08-02 05:51 is your place still clean and everything under control organizationally? 2011-08-02 05:51 I mean in terms of cleanliness or chaos with all the boards... 2011-08-02 05:51 watch out that your organization doesn't break down :-) 2011-08-02 05:52 so the L1 is cold soldering while I tested...those ones we can fix it in rc4 2011-08-02 05:52 can you repair that rc3 board? 2011-08-02 05:52 i could only step by step works now 2011-08-02 05:52 (with audio codec problems) 2011-08-02 05:52 sure 2011-08-02 05:52 big blocks first 2011-08-02 05:52 keep your place well organized 2011-08-02 05:52 sure, for L1 is easy though so that I've not do it. 2011-08-02 05:53 90 is a little tough already without a real line :-) 2011-08-02 05:53 I just focus on most high failures firstly 2011-08-02 05:53 when you go to minbo for the 270 u7/u19/u20, maybe they can do some other reworks on the side? 2011-08-02 05:53 since you are there already, you can use them maybe :-) 2011-08-02 05:55 these two days I'll call if minbo can rework for it before the new parts are arrived maybe 3 days later. 2011-08-02 05:56 sure, sounds good 2011-08-02 05:57 well...the ods I need to make one column that shows up u7/u19/u20 I replaced all. and also is going to cancel the words of 'Available' to other words? 2011-08-02 05:57 delete all 'available' 2011-08-02 05:58 i think now the 'Available' must be include all pass though : rendering/parts/etc.. 2011-08-02 05:58 yup 2011-08-02 05:58 no, let's not overdo it 2011-08-02 05:58 just delete all available for now 2011-08-02 05:58 and after the full u7/u19/u20 rework, you can delete the u7/u19/u20 column as well 2011-08-02 05:58 also good. 2011-08-02 05:58 it's a testing report, we don't need to record things like that which are basically 'extended' production steps 2011-08-02 05:59 like fix2 2011-08-02 05:59 the idea of the testing table is to give us a quick and efficient overview over quality issues, in preparation for the next run or future products 2011-08-02 06:00 which is exactly what it does now, also your grouping into categories is good 2011-08-02 12:41 wolfspraul: the projector has a scan angle, after that you can project as large as you want (by taking the projector farther and farther away). Of course, brightness diminishes as you go farther, and also how collimated the laser is affects things 2011-08-02 12:41 10mx10m sounds eminently doable 2011-08-02 12:41 20m by 20m, if you have a decent laser or in near-darkness, why not 2011-08-02 12:48 marcan: nice ;-) from what distance can you still project something? 2011-08-02 12:48 say you want to project a 10x10m image, but from 100m distance 2011-08-02 12:48 will that work? 2011-08-02 12:48 200m? 2011-08-02 12:49 500m? 2011-08-02 12:49 :-) 2011-08-02 13:49 wpwrak: brownout? 2011-08-02 13:58 pc needs a new power supply. it dies every once in a while. let's see what i missed ... 2011-08-02 14:02 ah, just the sourcing fun 2011-08-02 14:02 aw: btw, nice catch ! :) 2011-08-02 14:04 aw_: any news for the news hungry people here? 2011-08-02 14:05 "pizza is ready!" ;) 2011-08-02 14:08 oah~ i need pizza. ;-) 2011-08-02 14:09 larsc:you shouldn't say such things. no everyone will be gone for a while now. 2011-08-02 14:09 news news ! 2011-08-02 14:10 just rework few rc3 boards only but also realized that drying boards after cleaning is important...;-) 2011-08-02 14:10 kristianpaul: ah hi. I need your help with the news :-) 2011-08-02 14:10 there's a lot of URLs missing 2011-08-02 14:10 can you add some? Like you say you ported the namuru correlator to mm - source url? 2011-08-02 14:11 ok 2011-08-02 14:11 then the url to softgnss matlab code 2011-08-02 14:11 mom 2011-08-02 14:11 no rush 2011-08-02 14:11 I will edit the language, just help me with the URLs. 2011-08-02 14:12 aw_: what reworks did you do? 2011-08-02 14:12 i reworked my 0x2f (the first one we reworked before) then seems not to let it fully dried after rework/clean u7u19u20 then I power up and can't even reconfigure... 2011-08-02 14:13 just tried to use my rough rest schmitt-triggers(18pcs) on some boards...i need to very carefully soldering, since I broke new one. :( 2011-08-02 14:13 phew~ 2011-08-02 14:13 is 2F working now? 2011-08-02 14:14 yes... ;-) 2011-08-02 14:14