2011-07-26 01:50 <rejon> check out this vapour: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platform/browse_thread/thread/7668a9d46a43e482
2011-07-26 01:51 <rejon> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/07/mozilla-eyes-mobile-os-landscape-with-new-boot-to-gecko-project.ars
2011-07-26 01:56 <wolfspraul> akiwiguy: good morning
2011-07-26 01:56 <wolfspraul> I have good news for you - I received an anonymous donation of 50 USD towards the purchase of your Ben NanoNote! Seriously! It's amazing...
2011-07-26 01:57 <wolfspraul> shipping to New Zealand is about 25 USD or so btw, so the total you will need is still about 75 USD...
2011-07-26 02:08 <kristianpaul> I still wondering what kinda of keyboard wolfgang tought for the Ya tablet idea
2011-07-26 02:09 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: xula still nice board for that price, shame that sdram share bus with spi flash...
2011-07-26 02:26 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: I'm just thinking about continuity, I have no silver bullet for the whole device.
2011-07-26 02:26 <wolfspraul> so for the time being I continue to improve software on the Ben, until the magic moment hits that we can somehow advance the hardware
2011-07-26 02:30 <kristianpaul> sure sure, just wanted to heard your idea :)
2011-07-26 02:31 <kristianpaul> personally, i like table-like devices like kindle, but anway just saying...
2011-07-26 02:34 <kristianpaul> because keyboard location not ebook think at all
2011-07-26 03:13 <akiwiguy> Hello, wolfspraul 
2011-07-26 03:13 <wolfspraul> hi
2011-07-26 03:13 <akiwiguy> wolfspraul: You're kidding me, right?
2011-07-26 03:14 <wolfspraul> no
2011-07-26 03:15 <akiwiguy> That is pure awesomeness. :D 
2011-07-26 03:15 <wolfspraul> do you think you have the rest saved up already? ca. 75 USD?
2011-07-26 03:16 <akiwiguy> I'd have to have a look, but I'm on holiday at the moment
2011-07-26 03:16 <wolfspraul> ok
2011-07-26 03:16 <akiwiguy> So I can't check
2011-07-26 03:16 <akiwiguy> I get back home on Saturday so I shall let you know
2011-07-26 03:18 <wolfspraul> yes, email me at wolfgang@sharism.cc
2011-07-26 03:18 <wolfspraul> then we take it from there
2011-07-26 03:19 <akiwiguy> Okay then
2011-07-26 03:26 <rjeffries> Velocity® micro Cruz T301 7" 2GB Tablet $199 USD uses Ingenic 4760 has capacitive screen
2011-07-26 03:27 <rjeffries> on Amazon, for example it is $160 http://www.amazon.com/Velocity-Micro-7-Inch-Android-Tablet/dp/B0051VFVJ8
2011-07-26 03:27 <rjeffries> it would be cool to make it a Linux tablet
2011-07-26 03:27 <akiwiguy> Btw, do we have any feasible way of rearranging the keyboard on the NanoNote? I saw Jane used some glue to do it
2011-07-26 03:28 <akiwiguy> Because I'd be changing mine to azerty
2011-07-26 03:30 <wolfspraul> don't do it
2011-07-26 03:30 <akiwiguy> Why not?
2011-07-26 03:31 <wolfspraul> it's not meant to be rearranged, you will essentially destroy the keyboard and device ;-)
2011-07-26 03:31 <akiwiguy> :/
2011-07-26 03:31 <akiwiguy> Oh well.
2011-07-26 03:31 <wolfspraul> well that's my opinion
2011-07-26 03:31 <wolfspraul> you saw that Jane just did it anyway...
2011-07-26 03:33 <akiwiguy> Yeah...
2011-07-26 03:34 <akiwiguy> I shall just remap it in software and find some stickers to put over the keys :P 
2011-07-26 03:58 <kristianpaul> i think osgps make its own inb/outb implementation..
2011-07-26 04:15 <kristianpaul> oh, wow osgps commits from  6 days ago 
2011-07-26 04:17 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: you should tell them about your Milkymist work
2011-07-26 04:17 <wolfspraul> it takes time for people to understand new things, especially as fundamental as Milkymist, so you may have to repeat a few times etc. but start early is good...
2011-07-26 04:17 <kristianpaul> I did already (tell)
2011-07-26 04:20 <wolfspraul> any feedback?
2011-07-26 04:25 <kristianpaul> well, dual gps receiver was a recomendation for long run, that came from Fabrizio Tapper
2011-07-26 04:26 <kristianpaul> gps and galileo i think it was
2011-07-26 04:27 <kristianpaul> from Clifford Kelley and Peter Mumford, no more feedback than best wishes :)
2011-07-26 04:27 <wolfspraul> he :-) that's a start
2011-07-26 04:27 <kristianpaul> ah, almost forgot, Fabrizio saids milkymist related work with gps stuff, should work as a toolkit
2011-07-26 04:28 <wolfspraul> don't understand
2011-07-26 04:28 <kristianpaul> and the usual, wow that expensive board !!
2011-07-26 04:28 <kristianpaul> toolkit i think he meant, to make easy for people to get involve
2011-07-26 04:28 <kristianpaul> but of course too soon, to think about it think
2011-07-26 04:29 <wolfspraul> yes I wasn't thinking about the board as much as about the Milkymist SoC and integration
2011-07-26 04:29 <kristianpaul> sure sure
2011-07-26 04:29 <wolfspraul> we are in a tough spot always (we = Milkymist One) because pure software folks will look at the hardware and compare specs and complain about 'low' specs
2011-07-26 04:30 <wolfspraul> while pure hardware folks look at the board and say 'expensive' because they compare with the most subsidized stuff they can find on the market
2011-07-26 04:30 <wolfspraul> that's life :-) the only way to break through is to make products that sell to real users who care about neither comparison
2011-07-26 04:31 <wolfspraul> I know too little about osgps to even begin to think whether any integration with Milkymist SoC makes sense or not...
2011-07-26 04:32 <kristianpaul> ha, thats not all, he only mentioned something i understand to he want to manufacture
2011-07-26 04:32 <kristianpaul> PCB from here http://gnss-sdr.ru/index.php?blogid=2
2011-07-26 04:32 <kristianpaul> wich is nice i think, but no more comments came from my side
2011-07-26 04:32 <kristianpaul> osgps, well i'm very positive about it
2011-07-26 04:33 <kristianpaul> first it was ran 10 years ago i a PI computer.
2011-07-26 04:33 <kristianpaul> second, it already worked with a gp2021, wich namuru is a clone
2011-07-26 04:50 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: that's a nice blog [gnss-sdr.ru], unfortunately I cannot find an rss feed
2011-07-26 04:50 <wolfspraul> I'll add it to the watchlist :-)
2011-07-26 04:53 <kristianpaul> there is rss. i'm following
2011-07-26 04:54 <kristianpaul> http://gnss-sdr.ru/xml-rss2.php
2011-07-26 05:02 <kristianpaul> zzz
2011-07-26 05:08 <wolfspraul> that's in Russian
2011-07-26 05:09 <wolfspraul> cool I think this works: http://gnss-sdr.ru/xml-rss2.php?blogid=2
2011-07-26 05:09 <wolfspraul> thanks!
2011-07-26 05:13 <kristianpaul> better :-)
2011-07-26 05:16 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: added to the qi planet, thanks again!
2011-07-26 05:17 <wolfspraul> if you know of more links in that direction, sdr, rf - please share
2011-07-26 05:19 <kristianpaul> http://michelebavaro.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default?alt=rss
2011-07-26 05:20 <kristianpaul> not the floss one..
2011-07-26 05:20 <kristianpaul> at you choice
2011-07-26 05:20 <kristianpaul> gn8
2011-07-26 05:26 <kristianpaul> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kristianpaul/13-099-Presentation_ENC10_presentation_Ruegamer.pdf <- future front end for GPS and GALILEO.
2011-07-26 06:34 <akiwiguy> Hmm. Looking at txt2tags and it looks quite good. I could use that on my Nano with vi for all of my school work instead of using my netbook 
2011-07-26 06:37 <akiwiguy> When I get my Nano, that is
2011-07-26 06:48 <kyak> akiwiguy: what does txt2tags do?
2011-07-26 06:51 <akiwiguy> It converts plain text with some markup (**bold** //italics// __underline__) etc to many different formats like HTML, tex, MediaWiki syntax
2011-07-26 06:53 <akiwiguy> Also, ugh i hate touchscreen keyboards
2011-07-26 06:53 <akiwiguy> http://txt2tags.org
2011-07-26 07:00 <kyak> sounds cool
2011-07-26 07:05 <akiwiguy> Ugh, stupid iPad, crashing all the time
2011-07-26 08:49 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (xula) i don't think the shared flash/ram is an issue. i think you use the flash only when booting.
2011-07-26 09:00 <solrize> http://www.gradolabs.com/page_headphones.php?item=7882e729321fad6256d8d77c0629dbb4   now THIS is CE packaging... amplifier case machined from a block of mahogany
2011-07-26 09:00 <wpwrak> sweet ;-)
2011-07-26 09:01 <wpwrak> wood would be so nice to use if it didn't have that nasty infatuation with water and was a bit stronger
2011-07-26 09:07 <Jay7> kyak: hi, have you seen this http://www.ak-systems.ru/jml/ru/production/item/58-ip-plug ?
2011-07-26 09:07 <Jay7> btw, Ya Plug may be another idea :)
2011-07-26 09:08 <Jay7> gone
2011-07-26 09:10 <kodein> looks like a decent idea for a small home gateway
2011-07-26 09:10 <wpwrak> the plug form factor is interesting. but ... it puts you right into regulatory hell. anything that connects to mains is heavily regulated, mandatory certification, and there are countries with unique local certifications.
2011-07-26 09:15 <wpwrak> e.g., look at a power supply from a major laptop vendor and count the little logos on it. you'll easily find 10 of them. each of them is worth a few thousand dollars. plus, for the plug form factor, you need to design a different connector for each type of wall socket in use. that's at least 5-6 different types.
2011-07-26 09:16 <wpwrak> maybe you can find pre-made partial plugs that you can integrate into case, though. or maybe even a case system with modular plugs. that should save you a lot of money :)
2011-07-26 09:17 <kodein> europlug covers you for around 50 countries, though
2011-07-26 09:19 <wpwrak> kodein: doesn't help you in the US, australia, uk, argentina, south africa, and i think it would be a problem in switzerland and brazil, too. that's quite a large part of the planet you're missing :) and i don't remember what they have in russia, china, japan, and such. taiwan has US, so at least there you're good :)
2011-07-26 09:19 <wpwrak> (taiwain) that is, once you add a US plug :)
2011-07-26 09:20 <kodein> quite a few of my adapters I've gotten with snap on plugs for different parts of the world
2011-07-26 09:21 <kodein> I seem to recall the sheevaplug eventually going with a C7 instead, though
2011-07-26 09:22 <wpwrak> kodein: one question is whether you can commercially import a device with them. and then you also need to certify the adapters. also, adapters kinda obscure the whole "neat and simple" plug idea .
2011-07-26 09:24 <kodein> well, what I was getting at was the thingamajig to the right on this picture: http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/skins/skin_1/images/gpsp_pa.jpg
2011-07-26 09:25 <wpwrak> ah, europlug should work in switzerland too. then it ought to be good for brazil as well. that helps.
2011-07-26 09:29 <wpwrak> kodein: yes, that would work (not in australia, argentina, and apparently china, though). but then you need to find a supplier with such modular cases.
2011-07-26 09:29 <wpwrak> kodein: and you still need to certify the electronics in all those domains. same plug != same certificate.
2011-07-26 09:30 <kodein> yes, certainly.
2011-07-26 09:33 <kyak> Jay7: i've seen it now
2011-07-26 09:33 <kyak> and very strange comments
2011-07-26 09:33 <kyak> in order to buy it, you need to inform how you plan to use it - wtf?
2011-07-26 09:34 <kyak> i know only so many places to plug this IP Plug, and i would suggest one of them to that company
2011-07-26 09:39 <wpwrak> kyak: would that be a place where a lightbulb could make a difference, if it wasn't for the lack of electricity ? ;-)
2011-07-26 09:55 <wolfspraul> I don't think the mains power situation is quite as desperate as Werner describes it. but still a question of whether that is an area worth spending limited resources on, so at the bottom line I agree with Werner.
2011-07-26 09:55 <wolfspraul> kodein: C7 is cool, problem is that you will mostly only find it with larger supplies, 25W or up
2011-07-26 10:03 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: i'd say mains are a good thing to eventually know how to handle, but due to the large external costs, it's probably not a thing you'd want to do on a tight budget and a tight schedule
2011-07-26 10:05 <wolfspraul> yes
2011-07-26 10:05 <wolfspraul> btw, I just saw your mail about the m1 circuit improvement - great!!!
2011-07-26 10:05 <wolfspraul> thanks a lot
2011-07-26 10:06 <wolfspraul> the original wasn't delivered to my Inbox for some reason
2011-07-26 10:06 <wolfspraul> I only saw Sebastien's reply now
2011-07-26 10:06 <wolfspraul> Adam just finished fix2 for all 90 boards, it will get interesting very soon :-)
2011-07-26 10:07 <wpwrak> yeah. the moment of truth approaches :)
2011-07-26 10:08 <wolfspraul> I don't know whether he starts testing today though, I'm sure it was a long soldering day already.
2011-07-26 10:08 <wolfspraul> but definitely tomorrow
2011-07-26 10:08 <wolfspraul> already 6 PM here
2011-07-26 10:08 <wpwrak> still 6 good working hours left in the day ;-)
2011-07-26 10:16 <kyak> wpwrak: yeah, that place :)
2011-07-26 11:10 <qi-bot> The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-07252011-0745/
2011-07-26 11:18 <methril_work> morning all
2011-07-26 11:18 <kristianpaul> morning 
2011-07-26 11:22 <wolfspraul> morning
2011-07-26 12:26 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: well, with all the board cleaning and drying, i guess it'll be tomorrow before the first tests
2011-07-26 12:27 <wolfspraul> yes
2011-07-26 12:28 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: there's this wonderful "no clean" flux, but the one i have isn't much fun to use (sort of feels like heavily diluted "real" flux), and you probably still want to wash it off in the end, or worry about readily dissolved ions forever
2011-07-26 12:29 <wpwrak> those ions are tricky. you can easily get a flux-made bridge between traces/pads with a resistance around 100 kOhm. sometimes that's enough to defeat a pull-up, or - in conjunction with parasitic capacitances - slow the pull-up's effect enough to cause trouble
2011-07-26 12:30 <wpwrak> took me a while to figure that one out when i had a bunch of atusb boards that mysteriously wouldn't come out of reset after a bit of rework :)
2011-07-26 12:41 <kyak> dvdk: hi! Just wondering, if the project statistics at ohloh is updated by itself, or it must be triggered manually? I noticed that nanonote-firmware project was last updated 3 months ago :)
2011-07-26 12:42 <wolfspraul> ah yes, it's nice that we care about ohloh, good idea!
2011-07-26 13:07 <dvdk> kyak: it's auto-updated usually.  unless checkout errors occur, then you might have to drop a forum message for the administrators.
2011-07-26 13:07 <dvdk> i wonder, whether the latest branch renaming made it fail?
2011-07-26 13:38 <kyak> dvdk: could be. Perhaps you should re-add the project?
2011-07-26 13:42 <dvdk> kyak: not the project, just the git repo should suffice
2011-07-26 13:42 <kyak> yeah, that's what i meant :)
2011-07-26 13:43 <dvdk> just looging into ohloh
2011-07-26 13:44 <kyak> dvdk: do you have just openwrt-xburst or openwrt-packages repo, too?
2011-07-26 13:44 <dvdk> no, look here:
2011-07-26 13:44 <dvdk> https://www.ohloh.net/p/nanonote-software/enlistments
2011-07-26 13:44 <dvdk> i have gmenu2x, -packages and -xburst
2011-07-26 13:44 <kyak> ah, cool
2011-07-26 13:45 <kyak> maybe add all the projects of projects.qi-hardware.com then?
2011-07-26 13:45 <dvdk> no, maybe distribute it over different ohloh projetcs then.  i mean this project is named 'nanonote firmware' for a reason.  
2011-07-26 13:46 <dvdk> this is all the sutff that goes into releases.  the other stuff is not (maybe the kernel, though?)
2011-07-26 13:46 <wpwrak> most don't really qualify as "firmware"
2011-07-26 13:46 <wpwrak> if you want to collect all the qi-hw projects, perhaps this needs a new category
2011-07-26 13:47 <kyak> that's strange that the project is "NanoNote Firmware", when the address bar shows "nanonote-software" :)
2011-07-26 13:49 <dvdk> yeah, hmm.  just not consistent then :)
2011-07-26 13:49 <dvdk> just resubmitted the git repos
2011-07-26 13:49 <wpwrak> and not everything on qi-hw is "nanonote software" either
2011-07-26 13:49 <dvdk> but didn't really help.
2011-07-26 13:49 <dvdk> i guess we'll have to post in the forum then
2011-07-26 13:49 <dvdk> https://www.ohloh.net/p/nanonote-software/enlistments
2011-07-26 13:51 <wpwrak> hmm, how do i get from "enlistments" to the list of repositories ?
2011-07-26 13:52 <wpwrak> the world map is fun ;-) 65 contributors, but just one user :)
2011-07-26 13:54 <wpwrak> (enlistments) duh, never mind. that is the list of repositories. dunno why i confused it with the summary page
2011-07-26 13:55 <wpwrak> anyone care to add ben-wpan ? i wonder how many phantazillions that one is worth :)
2011-07-26 14:00 <dvdk> wpwrak: you should start with freshmeat for such projects.  
2011-07-26 14:01 <dvdk> or maybe, better would be to add a 'Nanonote Hardware' (as opposed to software/firmware) projects to both freshemeat and ohloh, and list the ben-wpan and other nanonote hw-related repositories there
2011-07-26 14:02 <wpwrak> ah, so you can't add it directly to ohloh to get the evalutation ? pity.
2011-07-26 14:04 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: fix spell (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/326700e
2011-07-26 14:04 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: debug_ops should be char not unsigned (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/d7801e1
2011-07-26 14:04 <dvdk> wpwrak: you can directly add it to ohloh.  maybe misunderstood you.  just wrt to public visibility, freshmeat is certainly more important than ohloh.
2011-07-26 14:05 <wpwrak> ah no, i'm just a little curious what that evaluation would return. i trust google to help people to find it :)
2011-07-26 14:06 <dvdk> btw, just the live stream of the debconf presentation about debian multiarch support started
2011-07-26 14:06 <dvdk> http://video.debconf.org:8000/Auditorium.ogv
2011-07-26 14:24 <methril_work> wpwrak, now it has 2 users
2011-07-26 14:28 <wpwrak> whee ! their metric is a little flawed ;-) i suppose they retrieve the contributors from the commits, but the users have to be told to register at ohloh ?
2011-07-26 14:35 <methril_work> i`m registered
2011-07-26 14:51 <dvdk> wpwrak: or maybe really nobody is using it :)
2011-07-26 14:59 <wpwrak> dvdk: yes, perhaps you're doing the most extreme version of "scratching one's itch" :)
2011-07-26 15:00 <wpwrak> dvdk: running a 11 million USB project, just to please your own desires. well, if the sheiks in oil-rich countries can do it, why shouldn't you ? ;-)
2011-07-26 18:29 <kristianpaul> i jsut realize with osgps you can do soemthing like this:  # define outpwd(p, v) outw_p(v, p)
2011-07-26 18:30 <wpwrak> as opposed to .. ? :)
2011-07-26 18:33 <kristianpaul> s/with/from
2011-07-26 18:35 <wpwrak> you can redefine a function name. i got that. what's special about it ? :)
2011-07-26 18:36 <kristianpaul> well, *i* dint knew it !! 
2011-07-26 18:36 <kristianpaul> it could save me lots of renames in the past..
2011-07-26 18:37 <kristianpaul> anywa..
2011-07-26 18:42 <wpwrak> aah :)
2011-07-26 21:25 <akiwiguy> Good morning all
2011-07-26 21:43 <kristianpaul> akiwiguy: hi
2011-07-26 21:44 <akiwiguy> Hello, kristianpaul 
2011-07-26 21:59 <kristianpaul> akiwiguy: how fesible you think is to uset the txt2tags software you mentioned last time, to index and browse a XML dump from wiktionary?
2011-07-26 22:01 <akiwiguy> Hmm, I don't know if it goes backwards - XML to text 
2011-07-26 22:02 <akiwiguy> I'd have to have a look at how wikitionary dumps it's info, I know nothing about it
2011-07-26 22:14 <mth> kristianpaul: for XML to text, XSLT could be used
2011-07-26 23:59 <wpwrak> bah, http://en.qi-hardware.com/ sucks. doesn't even have a proper title