2011-07-12 01:51 wolfspraul: moin 2011-07-12 01:55 you are on a constant chase to pick up technology that might get orphaned by Nokia? Aegis seems to qualify for this class (though it's a really extraordinary useless piece of crap): http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_6cbe.html 2011-07-12 01:56 morning 2011-07-12 01:57 why should I even click the link if it's not good stuff? 2011-07-12 02:32 maybe to wonder what nonsense FOSS community develops. I'm really amazed to find this age old trusted-computing nonsense getting support from open source community recently, as if all the concerns of experts were moot if only you had the right spirit when developing it. Sounds kinda like Oppenheimer 2011-07-12 02:34 DocScrutinizer: maybe the community is a bit defocused :-) 2011-07-12 02:34 if they come here, we have enough real problems for them 2011-07-12 02:34 hehe 2011-07-12 02:34 trusted computing for me means I trust the source of packages/updates I install 2011-07-12 02:35 I want a secure link to those servers, I want signed binaries, and most of all I want to trust the organization that is running those servers 2011-07-12 02:35 this can be done by simple means like md5-hashes you compare manually 2011-07-12 02:36 the entire path of signed bootloader etc. makes no sense to me. it seems to be driven by paranoia. 2011-07-12 02:36 trusted-computing is about industry trusting in the hw keeping you (the user) out from their valuable IP 2011-07-12 02:36 the movie studios have nightmares that people will steal their valuable Transformers XII 2011-07-12 02:36 so they try to encrypt the entire path the data takes 2011-07-12 02:36 what a complete abysmal failure 2011-07-12 02:36 eventually the 'data' has to reach my eyes and ears 2011-07-12 02:37 indeed 2011-07-12 02:37 I just setup a camera right in front of the big flatscreen TV, and for 90% of the world population that will produce a wonderfully watchable copy 2011-07-12 02:37 if they could the'd issue a revokable crypo-cert for your brain as well 2011-07-12 02:37 fine 2011-07-12 02:38 let them spend their dollars on this :-) 2011-07-12 02:38 so I also want 'trusted computing', why not. I want to trust the servers that my 'apt-get update' reaches out to. 2011-07-12 02:38 definitely 2011-07-12 02:38 nah, it's guys like Carsten Munk (mer) who actively paricipate in development of this security framework crap 2011-07-12 02:38 voluntarily 2011-07-12 02:38 a really trustworthy cloud backup service would also be nice 2011-07-12 02:39 meaning that what is in the cloud is stored in such a way that it is completely and irretrievably encrypted without a key only I am holding on 2011-07-12 02:39 that's age old PGP aka PKI 2011-07-12 02:40 not that the cloud provider sniffs my data for whatever reasons, subjects it to legal action, break into their servers, etc. 2011-07-12 02:40 no need for a chain-of-trust with a root cert burned into the rom of your PC 2011-07-12 02:40 yes of course 2011-07-12 02:40 we agree 2011-07-12 02:40 I'm just saying the word 'trusted computing' is cast so carefully it's hard to say no 2011-07-12 02:40 indeed 2011-07-12 02:41 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5115609628556940516&q=trusted+computing# 2011-07-12 02:54 actually what's written at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing#Criticism in first indented paragraph >>[...] software suppliers can make it much harder...<< was not exactly a scenario I had on my radar. But it's one of the most plausible reasns why industry is pushing this crap 2011-07-12 06:34 nice, some spam in the wiki 2011-07-12 06:34 cleaning up spam is so rewarding, immediate satisfaction :-) 2011-07-12 06:34 ;-)) 2011-07-12 06:35 spam indicated that people think their message will be read. sort of a seal of approval :) 2011-07-12 06:36 s/ed/es/ 2011-07-12 06:39 I think nowadays it's mostly either bots, or seo side-effects 2011-07-12 06:39 like some kid sitting in some office trying all sorts of things 2011-07-12 06:39 his screaming boss behind him all the time to reach whatever stupid metric the company has to measure 'success' 2011-07-12 06:39 it's sad, but I guess everything needs to be tried... 2011-07-12 06:40 hi guys, this is really a crap http://fossforce.com/2011/07/microsoft-tax-on-linux-devices/ 2011-07-12 06:40 aha 2011-07-12 06:40 without clicking on the link, Werner said nobody would get worked up over such stories... 2011-07-12 06:40 :-) 2011-07-12 06:41 but there comes our first angry fellow 2011-07-12 06:42 I knew those stories would come... 2011-07-12 06:42 fossrox_: so what do you think about it? can you elaborate a bit more what you mean with 'is crap'? 2011-07-12 06:43 what's your action plan? 2011-07-12 06:45 i get worried because of few reasons: 1. patent is an attack on freedom of thought in a world where kids are able to make great designs, 2. if development is driven by entities forcing contributors to resign from copyright (specifically copyleft), such entity can be sold, become danger and cause harm to community since the sold entity would be exclusive copyright holder able to change policies 2011-07-12 06:46 how do you translate your worries into actions? 2011-07-12 06:46 wolfspraul, my stand is to not use any proprietary work in life, including hardware, software, and culture, and i do what i can to achieve that and help others 2011-07-12 06:46 i started with friends this project: http://robse.org 2011-07-12 06:46 if you live in a patent infested country, you can try to lobby against patents 2011-07-12 06:47 if you want to make me happy, you can buy a Ben NanoNote or Milkymist One from me :-) 2011-07-12 06:47 http://www.rbose.org/ <-- this is the correct link, sorry 2011-07-12 06:47 does it make Android a bad thing that Microsoft uses patents to tax it? 2011-07-12 06:49 wolfspraul, i want to see production means distributed as much as possible, educate people how to make their own, make the society happy :) 2011-07-12 06:49 nice site, never knew about it before - thanks! 2011-07-12 06:50 yw, we linked to qi-hardware there :) 2011-07-12 06:50 I think it's very broad though, when I see this kind of thing I actually want to make Qi more narrow/focused :-) 2011-07-12 06:50 that's just my gut feeling 2011-07-12 06:50 *yawn* morning folks 2011-07-12 06:50 morning :-) 2011-07-12 06:50 thanks for linking! 2011-07-12 06:51 http://www.rbose.org/wiki/OSH_list <--- in the General section :) 2011-07-12 06:52 an in computer section as well 2011-07-12 06:56 wolfspraul, do you know maybe this video http://vimeo.com/19950597 ? 2011-07-12 07:00 from my perspective as long we are more happy that people buy stuff from us, than we are happy because they easily copy it and build it on their own, we are doing it the wrong way, enjoying scarcity, but that's my perspective 2011-07-12 07:14 just watch out that one day, the only thing that remains of free software/culture in the world are theories... that's the danger of being too far high up there somewhere... 2011-07-12 07:15 so make it real 2011-07-12 07:16 you can also make something and give it away, but the other day I was lectured about 'learned helplessness', so maybe that's also not it 2011-07-12 07:17 let's stop the world until everybody knows everything. then things should be perfect. :-) 2011-07-12 07:22 let me add to wiki something what might be interesting for you, was working on that last days 2011-07-12 07:26 wolfspraul, http://www.rbose.org/wiki/Free_Spectrum_list do you know about such solutions? 2011-07-12 07:26 saw the video, and I've heard about openfarmtech.org before 2011-07-12 07:26 wolfspraul: (nobody would get worked up) i didn't say that ;-) my statement was that this wouldn't be perceived as invalidating the objectives of free software. 2011-07-12 07:26 not my thing 2011-07-12 07:27 I feel in the end it's very distrustful of other people's work, I think that's the main thing that makes me feel uneasy 2011-07-12 07:27 why distract everybody and everything? 2011-07-12 07:27 distrust 2011-07-12 07:27 don't get it 2011-07-12 07:27 wolfspraul: also, the atrocity is in the patent system. mere applications don't change that, though they may serve to drive the point home 2011-07-12 07:27 but of course it's a nice project. I'll watch the next video in a year or so :-) 2011-07-12 07:27 but I enjoy my Latte at Starbucks 2011-07-12 07:28 and I like a modern world and modern stuff, like my new video synthesizer 2011-07-12 07:28 I want to build trust with more people and companies, not less 2011-07-12 07:28 sourcemap.org is pretty cool imho 2011-07-12 07:29 that's my feelings after watching the video... 2011-07-12 07:30 fossrox_: guifi.net 2011-07-12 07:31 http://fabfi.fablab.af/ 2011-07-12 07:35 thanks :) 2011-07-12 09:15 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/board_app.c (INT0_vect): limit interrupt serials to 0x00-0x7f (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c47f52d 2011-07-12 09:15 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/Makefile (bindist): new target to upload and describe atusb.bin (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1ad8683 2011-07-12 11:09 http://milkymist.org/wiki/index.php?title=Patches 2011-07-12 14:02 kyak: didn't you want ctrl-r support in busybox ash? 2011-07-12 14:02 07:37 < CIA-79> vda.linux master * ra669eca3a230 busybox/libbb/ (Config.src lineedit.c): libbb/lineedit: implement optional Ctrl-R history search 2011-07-12 16:26 jow_laptop: yeah, that was partly my effort. My two patches basically got rejected, and then one of busybox developers reworked it and commited 2011-07-12 16:31 guess he just felt pity looking at my code :) 2011-07-12 16:35 it would be great to backport it to our busybox version and use it in openwrt 2011-07-12 16:36 i will have a look, since i anticipated this feature so :) 2011-07-12 16:42 contro -r will be sweet 2011-07-12 16:42 welll ther is history than can savbe you typing 2011-07-12 16:42 but all is valid on small keybaord[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Cs 2011-07-12 16:46 damn ipv6 link is slow... 2011-07-12 18:15 jow_laptop: https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/9695 - could you please have a look occasionaly? 2011-07-12 20:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/board_app.c (INT0_vect): limit interrupt serials to 0x80-0xff (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/7cae01b 2011-07-12 20:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/Makefile (bindist): new target to upload and describe atusb.bin (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/e700b81 2011-07-12 20:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/: added "HardMAC" support (not yet using the TRX's MAC) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c107130 2011-07-12 20:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: libatrf: added HardMAC functions (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/862b554 2011-07-12 20:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/lib/: added HardMAC functions to the atusb drivers (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/49d6067 2011-07-12 20:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/atrf-txrx/: added option -H to enter simple HardMAC mode (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/5621282 2011-07-12 20:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/: some small "HardMAC" fixes (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/da7803a 2011-07-12 20:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:ben-wpan (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/23c24f6