2011-07-10 00:33 ok. stupid question, I just upgraded to the latest version of OpenWRT. and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to get networking working. i'm using the ks7010 micro sd card. before, all I had to do was "iwconfig eth0 essid any; dhclient", now that doesn't seem to work. anyone have any ideas why? 2011-07-10 00:34 may be kyak but i think he is sleeping now 2011-07-10 01:21 arghh, i forgot clock domain syncs.. 2011-07-10 01:22 i wonder how sane routing clock domain sync will be having all 12 chanells.. but lets try with one first 2011-07-10 01:28 ignatius_: i'd suggest to ask on the mailing list. kyak is a well-known owner of two such wlan boards, but he has troubles with both (hardware issues are suspected), so he may not be able to help you much. 2011-07-10 01:36 what a mess, this should be in both ways.. 2011-07-10 01:37 be done* 2011-07-10 01:37 anyway.. 2011-07-10 01:49 well, but ignatius_ sounds like he had this working before, and now it stopped 2011-07-10 01:50 software regressions, which may also be behind the problems kyak sees? 2011-07-10 01:53 wolfspraul: yes, that could explain things. it's a friendlier explanation than really bad QA :) 2011-07-10 01:56 yeah. I did have it working before. 2011-07-10 01:56 with the Debian root image, though. 2011-07-10 01:57 hmm. that promises to get interesting :) 2011-07-10 01:58 when I execute a "iwlist eth0 scanning" it detects a few wifi hosts.. but when I execute dhclient, it doesn't do anything. 2011-07-10 01:58 so.. is dhclient the problem? that's what i'm wondering. 2011-07-10 01:58 ignatius_: are any of the hosts open (unencrypted) ? 2011-07-10 01:59 good question :-) 2011-07-10 01:59 maybe, if i examine the /etc/init.d files in the Debian OS pertaining to networking, i'll get an answer.. 2011-07-10 01:59 ignatius_: naw, iwlist scan should tell you this 2011-07-10 01:59 well, I have my own wireless router... 2011-07-10 02:00 but, yes, there are 2 unencrypted hosts. 2011-07-10 02:00 you did iwconfig eth0 essid wifinetname 2011-07-10 02:00 ? 2011-07-10 02:01 before dhclient? 2011-07-10 02:01 wolfspraul: that thingy does support WPA, doesn't it ? (every once in a while, you can find an ancient chip that doesn't) 2011-07-10 02:01 yes. 2011-07-10 02:01 ignatius_: (unencrypted) perfect. then you can try to associate to them 2011-07-10 02:02 ignatius_: if so can you skip then dhclicnet and just configure ips manually so it should work this way too i think 2011-07-10 02:02 well, I have two NanoNotes.. one with OpenWRT, and another with Debian. the Debian machine works flawlessly. 2011-07-10 02:02 ignatius_: iwconfig  should show you if the association works ("Access Point:" shows a MAC address) 2011-07-10 02:03 you mean "Address:" ? 2011-07-10 02:05 ignatius_: dunno. this is what iwconfig output looks like on one of my PCs (not a ben): http://pastebin.com/sqYVpcNH 2011-07-10 02:05 ignatius_: the AP's MAC address would be after "Access Point:" 2011-07-10 02:05 ignatius_: otherwise, i think it says "not associated" 2011-07-10 02:06 hmm. 2011-07-10 02:06 ignatius_: maybe just paste the iwconfig output :) 2011-07-10 02:06 well, there is a hexidecimal string after "Address:" on my machine. 2011-07-10 02:07 is there a way to skip the dhclient step and set up the networking another way? 2011-07-10 02:08 ifconfig ? 2011-07-10 02:08 i'm not too knowledgabe on wireless mechanics in Linux. 2011-07-10 02:08 is same as ethernet 2011-07-10 02:08 ifconfig.. iwconfig.. whichever 2011-07-10 02:08 hum 2011-07-10 02:09 what ip adressing your acces point implements? ie 192.168.0.xxx 2011-07-10 02:09 what is your gateway 2011-07-10 02:09 ? 2011-07-10 02:10 ignatius_: first of all, the access point you're now associated with, it this your own or somebody else's ? 2011-07-10 02:10 ;-) 2011-07-10 02:10 ignatius_: i.e., do you know its configuration ? 2011-07-10 02:10 are yoy already connected to it? 2011-07-10 02:10 it's my own. 2011-07-10 02:11 not with the NanoNote. 2011-07-10 02:11 with your laptop, so that can tell us the netowrk configurarion easylly runnning ifconfig on that machine that is connected 2011-07-10 02:11 although, the "wavmon" utility shows that it is connected. 2011-07-10 02:11 ignatius_: hmm, so your laptop is associated with your access point but your ben isn't ? 2011-07-10 02:12 yes. 2011-07-10 02:12 ignatius_: or are both associated but only the laptop has TCP/IP working ? 2011-07-10 02:12 that is.. I can connect to the network with every machine but the NanoNote running OpenWRT. 2011-07-10 02:13 ignatius_: can you paste the output of  iwconfig  from your laptop ? e.g., on pastebin.com 2011-07-10 02:13 hmm. good question. not sure if networking is working... 2011-07-10 02:13 my desktop machine? 2011-07-10 02:14 or the NanoNote with Debian? 2011-07-10 02:15 ignatius_: the laptop you said is associated with your access point 2011-07-10 02:15 hmm... it just occured to me... maybe I have to do a "init 3" ??? 2011-07-10 02:15 hold on a sec 2011-07-10 02:15 ignatius_: we'll get to the ben later. first i want to see what your laptop is doing 2011-07-10 02:16 thanks, BTW. 2011-07-10 02:17 [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/usbperf/: measure the rate of control transfers a device can do (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/97604d7 2011-07-10 02:21 bleh. now my laptop is refusing to connect. 2011-07-10 02:21 i'm going to reboot. maybe that'll help. 2011-07-10 02:21 success !! now the ben is as good as the laptop ;-) 2011-07-10 02:37 I think in theory it does support WPA, yes 2011-07-10 02:38 but I don't know much about it, never used it 2011-07-10 02:50 ok. I got an "Access Point" 2011-07-10 02:50 on the NN 2011-07-10 02:50 great ! 2011-07-10 02:51 now, does dhcp work with it ? 2011-07-10 02:52 when I start dhclient.. it just hangs there. 2011-07-10 02:52 can you paste the output of  iwconfig  (on the ben) ? 2011-07-10 02:53 (e.g., on pastebin.com) 2011-07-10 02:53 it just locked up.. hold on. rebooting 2011-07-10 03:19 http://pastebin.com/DXN63cfj 2011-07-10 03:29 ignatius_: looks great 2011-07-10 03:31 ignatius_: does  dhclient -d eth0  say anything interesting ? 2011-07-10 03:34 that did it. :) 2011-07-10 03:35 although, it doesn't fork into the background. 2011-07-10 03:39 the -d flag does that 2011-07-10 03:41 ah. 2011-07-10 03:48 thanks for the help, wpwrak. 2011-07-10 06:31 heh yeah, my problem is that 'iwlist scanning' doesn't even return anything 2011-07-10 06:32 it says "no data" 2011-07-10 06:32 i guess it might be hardware issues, as wpwrak mentioned 2011-07-10 08:29 [commit] kyak: qball: patches went upstream, updated to 1.3 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3b735b0 2011-07-10 12:39 Hello and welcome from sunny Shenzhen 2011-07-10 12:40 I just got back from a meeting of the Shenzhen Linux User's Group, where I heard some great talks, and spoke with a fantastic group of like-minded geeks about starting a hackerspace here. 2011-07-10 12:42 :) 2011-07-10 12:42 CapnKernel: great. tell them a bit about the Ben NanoNote and Milkymist One too ;-) 2011-07-10 12:43 Oh, they told me! 2011-07-10 12:43 for Ben NanoNote I'm sure they've heard about it before, because we have/had some quite active guys in szlug 2011-07-10 12:43 yes, there you go :-) 2011-07-10 12:43 They know all about Qi hardware 2011-07-10 12:43 but maybe they don't know Milkymist One yet 2011-07-10 12:43 which is a far more serious hacker tool than the Ben 2011-07-10 12:43 you can fly to the moon with m1 :-) 2011-07-10 12:43 They didn't mention m1 2011-07-10 12:44 yes. so you need to evangelize... 2011-07-10 12:44 I would except that I don't know it either 2011-07-10 12:44 free CPU, super powerful programmable visuals and fpga etc. 2011-07-10 12:44 www.milkymist.org 2011-07-10 12:44 the world's most powerful and most free CPU/SoC 2011-07-10 12:45 CapnKernel: what did you learn from them? 2011-07-10 12:45 That there is something very universal about being a geek :-) 2011-07-10 12:45 btw, watch your safety in Shenzhen. it's probably the city with the most street crime in China. 2011-07-10 12:45 And about being a hacker 2011-07-10 12:45 wolfspraul: Thanks 2011-07-10 12:45 it's a seriously wild place 2011-07-10 12:46 I'm told it's the place that Guangdong folk point to, and say "that's a wild place". 2011-07-10 12:46 you must be careful with your purse, any bag you have around you etc. 2011-07-10 12:46 (And Guangdong has the reputation as China's wild place) 2011-07-10 12:46 wallet I mean, not purse :-) 2011-07-10 12:46 I don't know, I found one that suits my suits just nicely. 2011-07-10 12:46 Sorry, suits my shoes 2011-07-10 12:47 well I've told you - be careful there 2011-07-10 12:47 they are very fast, they work in teams, they bribe local security etc. 2011-07-10 12:47 Yes you've told me, and I wouldn't be surprised if something happens. 2011-07-10 12:47 I'm speaking from experience... 2011-07-10 12:47 I believe you 2011-07-10 12:47 no but you have to be faster/more alert than they are, that simple 2011-07-10 12:47 China survival 2011-07-10 12:47 I look out for distractions 2011-07-10 12:48 Things that can take your eye off what's important 2011-07-10 12:48 Like somebody dropping something 2011-07-10 12:48 just keep anything valuable super close to your body, best in front etc. 2011-07-10 12:48 Noted 2011-07-10 12:48 yes, binding their shoelace 2011-07-10 12:48 Bit hard when you've got a computer on your back 2011-07-10 12:49 I was never impressed with the quality of hackers I found there, in the end. 2011-07-10 12:49 although, in their favor, it's extremely hard to be a good hacker from mainland china 2011-07-10 12:50 the so called great firewall is crazy, it totally blinds you, excludes you 2011-07-10 12:50 so probably they have no chance, until they take that piece of shit down 2011-07-10 12:50 One guy showed me a phone he'd made for his grandmother.  She can't see, and certainly can't dial numbers.  The phone has a large 4x4 keypad, with each key being a different person.  She presses one button, it dials that person. 2011-07-10 12:50 that's nice 2011-07-10 12:51 snap a picture... 2011-07-10 12:51 He had an atmega32 in there, line interface circuit, standard phone tx/rx chip, was doing dtmf generation in software, etc.  Very very hackerish, very very improve society.  That's what it's all about 2011-07-10 12:52 These guys are ready 2011-07-10 12:52 Seems most of them use VPNs and are well versed in getting what they need to know from wkp. 2011-07-10 12:54 For example, these guys know who Bunnie Huang is, and know what he's done. 2011-07-10 12:54 (BTW I have been speaking with Bunnie) 2011-07-10 12:57 no I stand by my assessment 2011-07-10 12:57 there is no quality there :-) 2011-07-10 12:58 and the firewall does have grave consequences and seriously limits even the talented guys 2011-07-10 12:58 if werner would be inside the firewall for too long he would become a mountain terrorist, for sure 2011-07-10 12:58 it's 'thought crimes', committed every day, thousands of times 2011-07-10 12:59 CapnKernel: next time you see an interesting hardware hack (like that phone), remember you take a picture and write a short blog post about it 2011-07-10 12:59 they will seriously be happy and it will help everybody 2011-07-10 13:00 I know what you're saying. 2011-07-10 13:00 Specifically about the phone, and cool projects, I'd rather THEM write about it, in their own words, so they develop their own compulsion to share. 2011-07-10 13:00 the effects of the firewall are slow (it's designed to function like that) 2011-07-10 13:00 Information is power. 2011-07-10 13:01 ok, then we can wait forever 2011-07-10 13:01 so the firewall will slowly, little by little, drive people to give up 2011-07-10 13:01 give up wordpress.com, give up watching interesting stuff on youtube, give up wikimedia commons, give up blogspot, give up twitter, and so on 2011-07-10 13:02 you have to take the picture, and you have to blog about it. otherwise nothing will happen, quite simple. 2011-07-10 13:03 wolfspraul: I know what "learned helplessness" is. 2011-07-10 13:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness 2011-07-10 13:04 wolfspraul: What time you arriving? 2011-07-10 13:04 I disagree. you have to reach out and help them by bridging the gap first. even if that leads nowhere, at least a few people may see your example and one day remember. 2011-07-10 13:04 there was life on earth before the internet :) but yes, once you're used to it, it's hard to get by without 2011-07-10 13:05 bullshit about 'learned helplessness' when you have the world's most sophisticated censorship and propaganda machine around you since birth 2011-07-10 13:05 you have to help them, and decisively. by giving an example. 2011-07-10 13:06 wpwrak: that firewall would drive you nuts, I know it :-) 2011-07-10 13:06 especially how it is done, he 2011-07-10 13:06 the sllooooooooooow poision 2011-07-10 13:06 so slow it's unnoticable 2011-07-10 13:06 but with dramatic effects over time, especially on hackers 2011-07-10 13:10 wolfspraul: I really appreciate your advice, but I think we're done now. 2011-07-10 13:10 looking forward to your findings, keep us posted 2011-07-10 13:11 you plan to open a hackerspace there? 2011-07-10 13:11 will it have a website? 2011-07-10 13:12 and yes, I'm definitely curious to see a picture of that phone, hopefully one day... 2011-07-10 13:16 I plan to use my experience to help them open their own hackerspace. 2011-07-10 13:17 good. the more they have a chance to interact with you, personally, the better for them. 2011-07-10 13:17 I was there many times, but now I focus on what I've learnt :-) 2011-07-10 13:17 getting selfish, he... 2011-07-10 13:20 just thinking. shenzhen is not too far from hong kong. could you setup some sort of high-speed direct link to HK? 2011-07-10 13:21 many some powerful and directed antennae? 2011-07-10 13:21 the hackerspace wouldn't stand too long, but it'd be a really cool project 2011-07-10 13:21 s/many/maybe/ 2011-07-10 13:23 I recently found out about fabfi.fablab.af and guifi.net, very cool projects imho 2011-07-10 13:23 the extension for ben-wpan :-) 2011-07-10 13:25 What would a high speed link do? 2011-07-10 13:25 I have told them I'm here three months for investigation, with the option of a few years if it looks good. 2011-07-10 13:26 Having the hackerspace provide communication services is a dumb thing, as it then makes the organisation a target for attention. 2011-07-10 13:26 it's a waste of time, too 2011-07-10 13:26 These guys know how to get what they want, and each can deny knowledge of what the others do, should there be a problem. 2011-07-10 13:27 any geek can run a server in their garage, there's no need for a hackerspace for that 2011-07-10 13:27 keep the surface area of a potential target as small as possible 2011-07-10 13:27 I'll be back later 2011-07-10 13:28 hackerspaces should be for large CNC machines, semiconductor labs, etc. 2011-07-10 13:28 most other uses are boring 2011-07-10 13:29 lekernel: You may be conflating the idea of a place, with an organisation. 2011-07-10 13:29 It's great to have a place to keep larger stuff.  But an organisation can still work with people carrying their own stuff. 2011-07-10 13:31 What we've found in Melbourne is that the value of a hackerspace is not just in the technical sharing, but the social aspect. 2011-07-10 13:31 Coming together to share reinforces the idea. 2011-07-10 13:32 oh, yeah, but I've seen too many hackerspaces becoming pure social spaces 2011-07-10 13:32 socializing is nice, but it's not what hacking is all about 2011-07-10 13:33 I will try to help with what I have learned from my experience in Melbourne. 2011-07-10 13:35 if you just want a meeting point, you can do something like 2600 meetings 2011-07-10 13:35 easy to set up 2011-07-10 13:43 oh, to kernels i tought i never will saw something like that ;) 2011-07-10 13:44 hello CapnKernel 2011-07-10 13:44 I agree with lekernel said, hackerspace is for big stuff (hopefully expensive too) that need to be place on a common place 2011-07-10 13:45 the rest can stay at home, 2011-07-10 13:45 I pointed expensive because that make you look for more people and buy/build it together somethimes 2011-07-10 13:49 s/saw/see 2011-07-10 13:53 kristianpaul: like "it's too heavy for a single person to move" ;-) 2011-07-10 13:53 yes 2011-07-10 14:30 Some of the hackerspaces in Australia have laser cutters and lathes.  They are good candidates for putting in a hackerspace. 2011-07-10 15:12 The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-07092011-1130/ 2011-07-10 22:38 wpwrak: may be you already checked this but your troughput problems with atusb is not maybe about a buffer limitation in the atmega side? 2011-07-10 22:41 well, i remenber same experience with burst transfer using microchip mcu and i remenber conclusion was around that 2011-07-10 23:51 kristianpaul: naw, i think i understand it now. it's a limitation of how the UHCI works. need to write it up.