2011-06-20 03:01 <kristianpaul> hum, how to reverser a downcovertion
2011-06-20 03:02 <kristianpaul> as the current state of namutu correlator seems to not be happy with SiGE serial out put, and in the case i re-reverse the serialization, does it mean is all what i needed to do?
2011-06-20 03:02 <kristianpaul> hum..
2011-06-20 03:17 <kristianpaul> well, i guess taking just the sign will be just be enought
2011-06-20 03:25 <kristianpaul> 1 bit for now.. then
2011-06-20 04:03 <kristianpaul> this guys is awesome http://www.s5tech.net/s53mv/navsats/
2011-06-20 04:04 <kristianpaul> 1 bit ADC madewithh a FF
2011-06-20 04:05 <kristianpaul> is multiplexing the DSP (not for mobile, but still smart move)
2011-06-20 04:06 <kristianpaul> uses  a LUT for correlator C/A .. 
2011-06-20 04:17 <DocScrutinizer> 1 bit ADC is simple
2011-06-20 04:17 <DocScrutinizer> that's why you use it ;-)
2011-06-20 08:30 <tuxbrain> I can stay connected briefly but two things:
2011-06-20 08:31 <tuxbrain> or maybe more :P
2011-06-20 08:32 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: http://www.tinyos.net/ sais it has a full stack of 6LoWPAN/RPL/CoAP stack may be worth the effort to take a look 
2011-06-20 08:36 <kyak> tuxbrain: have you checked if it is possible to order now with Fedex to Russia?
2011-06-20 08:37 <tuxbrain> After a brief meeting with an Tecnician of a RF (Wifi,BT...) integrator company, that I convice him to take a look at atben/atusb he advice me that whatever coverage(silicone, resine, pvc, even paper or wood) we put in the antenna will affect it badly his proposal is to use resine in mostly all the device but the antena part.
2011-06-20 08:37 <kyak> (before you disappear again :) )
2011-06-20 08:40 <tuxbrain> kyak, yes fedex is more reliable and at least as "cheap" UPS, but I have not time yet to upload the fedex info to the shop meanwhile we can arrage it via proforma and email.
2011-06-20 08:41 <kyak> should i just order via tuxbrain.com and then we will continue by e-mail?
2011-06-20 08:43 <tuxbrain> kyak , how do you plan to pay? bank transfer? credit card? paypal?
2011-06-20 08:43 <DocScrutinizer> tuxbrain: (antenna & resin) good advice
2011-06-20 08:43 <kyak> tuxbrain: it's paypal
2011-06-20 08:43 <kyak> tuxbrain: but i need to know the cost beforehand
2011-06-20 08:43 <DocScrutinizer> tuxbrain: we thought you collapsed under the zillions of orders after /.   :-D
2011-06-20 08:44 <tuxbrain> send me a mail with the items you want to buy and I will send you a proforma invoice with the prices
2011-06-20 08:44 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: (partial resin cover) okay, that would also work. a bit fragile, but possible. did you have a chance to test the cured sugru ?
2011-06-20 08:44 <kyak> tuxbrain: ok, that i will do
2011-06-20 08:45 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: oh, and please don't forget to send me the tracking number when you ship my devices
2011-06-20 08:45 <tuxbrain> DocScrutinizer: No not so , I have collapsed buy zillion of things to do apart of attend de some "atben/atusb" orders, + some questions rised + some proposals :)
2011-06-20 08:46 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: tuxbrain: my suggestion would be along the path of shoving PCB into some bag like thing, like shrink tube, or similar
2011-06-20 08:46 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: tracking sure
2011-06-20 08:47 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: (sugru test) not yet sorry, no any time window now to perform such test a pair of weeks.
2011-06-20 08:47 <DocScrutinizer> you could build cases from two pieces of flat plastic sealed at the edge around with silicon or sth
2011-06-20 08:48 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: btw, has the excellent press coverage rejon triggered led to any sales pickup so far ?
2011-06-20 08:48 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: very inexact :-(
2011-06-20 08:48 <DocScrutinizer> yes
2011-06-20 08:48 <DocScrutinizer> go for acrylic that you can get in any custom profile you order
2011-06-20 08:49 <DocScrutinizer> get a flat U profile, cut two pieces, glue together to get a nice rectangular tube
2011-06-20 08:49 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: (tinyos) they seem to target devices that are still fairly big. e.g., an ATmega128. ours is a 32 (already the biggest model in that series)
2011-06-20 08:49 <DocScrutinizer> place a chork on top 
2011-06-20 08:50 <DocScrutinizer> you can get a meter of such profile for a few $$ at specialized shops
2011-06-20 08:50 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: sounds like a lot of work
2011-06-20 08:50 <DocScrutinizer> sure not more work that messing with sticky resin
2011-06-20 08:50 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
2011-06-20 08:50 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: feel like cutting 2 * 100 u-profiles ? :)
2011-06-20 08:51 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: the idea is to outsource the work to the customer ;-)
2011-06-20 08:51 <DocScrutinizer> wait, 2*100 < 2^8
2011-06-20 08:52 <DocScrutinizer> I'd cut that in like 15 min for you
2011-06-20 08:52 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: what kind of equipment do you have that can cut through 7 layers of profiles ? laser swords ? ;-)
2011-06-20 08:52 <DocScrutinizer> kreissaege
2011-06-20 08:52 <DocScrutinizer> no problem
2011-06-20 08:53 <tuxbrain> (press coverage) I don't think it rise sales directly but @firefox and @JohnFMoore are following @tuxbrain on twitter :) , yes I believe a lot more people now know what qi-hardware is and what we are looking for, no is time to no disapoint the real target (fredoom lovers) the MS and Ithing lovers are lost from the begining :)
2011-06-20 08:53 <DocScrutinizer> buzz saw
2011-06-20 08:53 <DocScrutinizer> (hail ding)
2011-06-20 08:54 <DocScrutinizer> tuxbrain: indeed :-D
2011-06-20 08:55 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: hehe, kewl. let's hope it also has an effect on sales. no money, no fun. well, unless your grocery store also becomes one of your follower and they let you have your food for free ;)
2011-06-20 08:55 <DocScrutinizer> *cough*
2011-06-20 08:55 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't fly, tested that
2011-06-20 08:55 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: (lost from the beginning) yes, no need to worry about those iDiots ;-)
2011-06-20 08:56 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: (tinyos) but the 6LoWPAN/RPL/CoAP stack cannot be a start point to port it to linux?
2011-06-20 08:56 <DocScrutinizer> (case) what's about revambing dirt cheap usb keyring dongles?
2011-06-20 08:57 <DocScrutinizer> revamping
2011-06-20 08:57 <kyak> tuxbrain: i just sent the e-mail
2011-06-20 08:57 <tuxbrain> at least is the only place where I see it announced clear as a working implemented 6lowpan stack
2011-06-20 08:57 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: roh looked into that. didn't find anything that fit
2011-06-20 08:57 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
2011-06-20 08:57 <tuxbrain> under bsd licence
2011-06-20 08:58 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: (tinyos) maybe
2011-06-20 08:58 <DocScrutinizer> a task we need to outsource to our taipei branch of community ;-D
2011-06-20 09:00 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: you know how Pustefix soap bubbles came to market? They recycled WW-2 ammo, iirc the empty brass tubes left over from flak
2011-06-20 09:00 <tuxbrain> DocScrutinizer: dont worry about cover , if resin is the way to go we have some companies here that can do the job, and also Victor is quite good in such kind of manualities to do some tests, I this is more mater to have atusb working with standard 6lowpan than cover it or not that will make it a real success :)
2011-06-20 09:00 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: i think we just need to see how things go with simple substances that can act as a cover. while they certainly have some effect on the RF, it's not as if plastic-covered antennas  were unheard of.
2011-06-20 09:01 <DocScrutinizer> no, just they get detuned. Different dielectic constant
2011-06-20 09:01 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: As the RF guys tellme, but they where designed with the pastic cover in mind :)
2011-06-20 09:01 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: hmm, we could try brass tubes. they ought to produce very predictable results :)
2011-06-20 09:01 <DocScrutinizer> remember the advice about PCB material and thickness?
2011-06-20 09:02 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: indeed ;-P
2011-06-20 09:02 <wpwrak> i guess we'll just have to try.it's not as if the antenna was perfectly tuned anyway. so it may actually improve it ;-)
2011-06-20 09:03 <DocScrutinizer> as somebody said yesterday he wants a N900 case of massive gold. I answered it will serve perfectly for the intended purpose
2011-06-20 09:03 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: like a rolex ;-)
2011-06-20 09:03 <DocScrutinizer> yep
2011-06-20 09:03 <DocScrutinizer> my words
2011-06-20 09:04 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-06-20 03:39:47] <DocScrutinizer> have you ever heard somebody complaining about weight of his Rolex, or about it not being accurate ;-D
2011-06-20 09:06 <DocScrutinizer> in a Rolls Royce they got the clock for sole purpose to listen to the ticking and muse about how silent the car is
2011-06-20 09:06 <DocScrutinizer> it doesn't really matter if it shows the correct time
2011-06-20 09:07 <DocScrutinizer> (the car clock, not Rolex)
2011-06-20 09:07 <wpwrak> ;-)
2011-06-20 09:08 <wpwrak> anyway, the evil day star will raise soon. time for nap :)
2011-06-20 09:08 <wpwrak> s/raise/ride/
2011-06-20 09:08 <DocScrutinizer> hey, I missed that point by far
2011-06-20 09:08 <wpwrak> ggaaah. s/ride/rise/
2011-06-20 09:09 <DocScrutinizer> pondering siesta ;-)
2011-06-20 11:29 <DocScrutinizer> just idly muses about his feeling facing hardware under a resin blob - depressing
2011-06-20 12:09 <qi-bot> [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: MIPS: JZ4740: USB: Fix packet read/write functions. http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/9979345
2011-06-20 12:16 <mth> larsc: thanks
2011-06-20 14:21 <[g2]> public logging sweet!
2011-06-20 14:21 <[g2]> Are the gerbers around for the atbin  ?
2011-06-20 14:21 <[g2]> doh... s/atbin/atben/
2011-06-20 14:36 <jluis> g2 look at http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/fab/atben-pcb-110330.zip
2011-06-20 14:43 <wpwrak> [g2]: if you just want an overview, you may find this one more useful: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atben-110324-overview.png
2011-06-20 14:44 <[g2]> jluis and wpwrak thx... Actually I was thinking about  have PCBs sent off today
2011-06-20 14:44 <wpwrak> [g2]: if you want to edit things, the kicad design files are here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/atben/
2011-06-20 14:45 <wpwrak> [g2]: then the zip jluis mentioned is exactly what you want :)
2011-06-20 14:46 <[g2]> wpwrak, cool I'll have a look.  I'm also thinking of combining the Femtoduino and atben on one board. 
2011-06-20 14:47 <wpwrak> [g2]: sounds good. some people here have already been thinking of such a union. (although more in the sense "wouldn't it be nice if someone did this", not in the "let's do this" sense)
2011-06-20 14:51 <[g2]> wpwrak, I'm building Femtos so it's the same QFN packaging
2011-06-20 14:51 <[g2]> wpwrak, thx for all you work in this btw :)
2011-06-20 14:52 <wpwrak> [g2]: glad you like it and even consider extending it ! :)
2011-06-20 14:53 <[g2]> wpwrak, open hw and sw are the best IMHO
2011-06-20 14:55 <wpwrak> agreed :)
2011-06-20 15:00 <[g2]> wpwrak, have you thought about a U.FL connector at all for the boards ?
2011-06-20 15:03 <wpwrak> [g2]: of course :) if you remove the 0R resistor, scatch off a bit if the solder mask and a bit of the copper, you can solder an U.FL there. it's most likely to be a one-way modification, though
2011-06-20 15:05 <wpwrak> [g2]: like the atusb with the external antenna here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/rflab-atusb.jpg
2011-06-20 15:05 <wpwrak> let me find a better picture ...
2011-06-20 15:06 <wpwrak> this one has two boards with an U.FL: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/boards-so-far.jpg
2011-06-20 15:06 <wpwrak> naw, even three ;-)
2011-06-20 15:07 <wpwrak> they're a bit earlier designs, but the modification should be similar for the production boards
2011-06-20 15:10 <[g2]> are you etching your own boards ?
2011-06-20 15:12 <[g2]> also, did you know that gerbv is not happy about the drl file ?
2011-06-20 15:12 <wpwrak> [g2]: (etching) yup
2011-06-20 15:12 <[g2]> cool... do you know about Laen's services ?
2011-06-20 15:12 <wpwrak> can gerbv actually display excellon ? .drl isn't gerber
2011-06-20 15:12 <wpwrak> who is laen ?
2011-06-20 15:13 <[g2]> http://dorkbotpdx.org/wiki/pcb_order
2011-06-20 15:15 <wpwrak> ah yes, seen that one. such aggregators may be nice for final runs before going to the fab
2011-06-20 15:15 <wpwrak> for prototyping, probably too slow and the shipping to expensive
2011-06-20 15:15 <[g2]> right, he does "medium" runs once a month
2011-06-20 15:17 <wpwrak> for really simple stuff, i have turn-around times of a few hours :) RF boards are bit of a pain, though, with all those vias
2011-06-20 15:18 <wpwrak> also, he doesn't say if he does 0.8 mm boards
2011-06-20 15:33 <[g2]> wpwrak, you mean thinner boards ?
2011-06-20 15:34 <wpwrak> [g2]: thinner than the usual 1.6 mm. e.g., atben/atusb both are 0.8 mm.
2011-06-20 15:34 <wpwrak> [g2]: a thicker board wouldn't fit into the 8:10 card holder. also, the RF traces (feed line and antenna) are designed for 0.8 mm, not 1.6 mm
2011-06-20 15:37 <wpwrak> see also README-PCB
2011-06-20 15:40 <[g2]> thx... sorry about all the silly questions, I just found out about the atben/atusb last night (via hackaday)
2011-06-20 15:42 <wpwrak> naw, they're good questions. you're the first one besides myself and then tuxbrain to make such boards
2011-06-20 15:48 <wpwrak> [g2]: if you plan on using DorkbotPDX (that is, if they can do 0.8 mm), the drill sizes will be okay. theirs is bigger than mine, but my vias are conservatively sized. no problem with trace width and trace-to-trace clearance. copper to edge clearance is several times a bit lower than their 15 mil, but you may accept the risk. the only area where it really matters is at the antenna, where you have about 11.5 mil before chopping off copp
2011-06-20 15:48 <wpwrak> er
2011-06-20 15:49 <wpwrak> [g2]: if you plan on making an atusb, you can also try an 1.6 mm board. RF performance is likely to suffer, but the USB connector will actually like the change :)
2011-06-20 15:49 <wpwrak> [g2]: for atben, you have no choice. anything much thicker than 0.8 mm won't go into the slot
2011-06-20 15:51 <[g2]> wpwrak, I won't be going into the slot.. I'll be connecting up to the ATMega328
2011-06-20 15:51 <[g2]> the atben is like the RFM12B module except has AES and other stuff
2011-06-20 15:52 <[g2]> and fully open  (except the chip itself)
2011-06-20 15:54 <wpwrak> (atmega328) ah, okay. then you only have to worry about RF performance if using a different board thickness. i don't know what sort of degradation to expect. most likely, you'll get some reflections on the then mismatched feed line, plus the antenna may show some frequency-dependent attenuation
2011-06-20 16:01 <[g2]> wpwrak, right I'll have to look closer at the RF.  I've got an ubertooth so I'll be able to do some spectral analysis
2011-06-20 16:01 <[g2]> see some levels and stuff
2011-06-20 16:23 <methril_work> wpwrak, (fisl) i think it's going to be impossible to got to FISL this year :(
2011-06-20 16:31 <wpwrak> methril: aww ;-( for you it's almost next door
2011-06-20 16:44 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/ep0.c (my_setup): fixed test for ATUSB_SPI_READ2 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/3f74098
2011-06-20 17:39 <rjeffries> g3 are you here?
2011-06-20 17:39 <rjeffries> sorry... g2   sheesh
2011-06-20 17:42 <kristoffer_> :D
2011-06-20 17:42 <[g2]> rjeffries, hi
2011-06-20 17:43 <rjeffries> g2 I am the person wpwrak was referring to above about thinking about as opposed to doing a standalobe board that is arduino-ish plus the 802.15.4 radio
2011-06-20 17:44 <rjeffries> the reason is that Ben Nanonote could then be a human interface for remote sensor stations connected wirelessly
2011-06-20 17:44 <[g2]> rjeffries, it's all good.
2011-06-20 17:45 <rjeffries> have you been commenting on the femtoduino list?I read that list
2011-06-20 17:45 <[g2]> thinks about a lot of stuff, but it's really hard to do _everything_
2011-06-20 17:45 <[g2]> rjeffries, yup that's me
2011-06-20 17:45 <rjeffries> well I am not an engineer but I think about doing stuff
2011-06-20 17:46 <rjeffries> so have you built up a femtoduino yet? it is so clever. almost TOO small
2011-06-20 17:46 <[g2]> I've got several I've built
2011-06-20 17:46 <[g2]> both 3.3 and 5v
2011-06-20 17:46 <rjeffries> how difficult was the home brew surface mount stuff
2011-06-20 17:48 <[g2]> the QFN is a little tricky. I've got a jig for holding the board, laser cut solder stencils and a temperature controlled reflow oven (arduino based with thermocouple).
2011-06-20 17:48 <[g2]> I need to post some photos of the jig
2011-06-20 17:49 <[g2]> rjeffries, I've toyed with making a TQFN version
2011-06-20 17:50 <[g2]> rjeffries, also, I've only used leaded solder, haven't tried the silver RHOS stuff yet.
2011-06-20 17:51 <wpwrak> rjeffries: for an easier start, you may want to consider TQFP/SSOP/SIOC/etc. packages. they have little feet. they're quite easy to solder. QFN need a bit more experience, so they're not ideal for a smooth first-time experience.
2011-06-20 17:52 <wpwrak> [g2]: (RoHS) oh you're so missing out on the best fun ... ;-)
2011-06-20 17:52 <[g2]> wpwrak, are you using leadfree solder ?
2011-06-20 17:53 <wpwrak> [g2]: yeah, reluctantly. didn't want any troubles with shipping prototypes.
2011-06-20 17:53 <[g2]> got a good paste you like ?
2011-06-20 17:53 <[g2]> Everything is RHOS but the paste for me
2011-06-20 17:54 <[g2]> the QFN on the Femto's and 0402 are my first dip in the pretty small self-assembly stuff
2011-06-20 17:54 <wpwrak> [g2]: i normally solder with an iron. not too fond of the paste i got. but i didn't run comparisons, so maybe it's okay. my oven is a bit on the simple side, so it tends to overcook the boards a bit.
2011-06-20 17:55 <[g2]> wpwrak, homebrew oven ?
2011-06-20 17:58 <[g2]> rjeffries, around later ?  I've got run out for lunch.
2011-06-20 17:59 <wpwrak> [g2]: (oven) just the cheapest toaster oven i could find. wanted to see if it's easy to do oven-based smt. realized that no, some work would be needed. and probably a better oven as well :)
2011-06-20 17:59 <[g2]> wpwrak, I use a $19US oven from Target
2011-06-20 18:00 <wpwrak> [g2]: anyway, 0402 don't scale me anymore. qfn can still be a pain for the center pad and if i have lots of ground nearby, like in those RF designs
2011-06-20 18:00 <wpwrak> [g2]: you oven out-cheaped mine ;-)
2011-06-20 18:00 <[g2]> It does has a thermocouple sensor inside and that and the sensor probably cost 2x the oven
2011-06-20 18:01 <[g2]> well the sesnor is outside, but the thermocouple is in the oven :)
2011-06-20 18:02 <wpwrak> [g2]: nice :) just use the oven "as-is". didn't mod or instrumentalize it in any way.
2011-06-20 18:02 <wpwrak> hmm, that word probably doesn't exist :)
2011-06-20 18:03 <[g2]> wpwrak, you probably speak 4 or more languagues :)
2011-06-20 18:03 <[g2]> instrument is the work you were probably looking for
2011-06-20 18:06 <wpwrak> yeah :)
2011-06-20 18:06 <wpwrak> "instrumentalize" has more of a modding vibe to it, though. shame it doesn't exist :)
2011-06-20 18:07 <[g2]> :)
2011-06-20 19:54 <dvdk> kyak: huh?  the problem with ase crashing on safe is gone for me now.
2011-06-20 19:55 <dvdk> but the only thing i did was to install uclibc compiled from the same openwrt-xburst.git revision as I compiled ASE with.
2011-06-20 19:55 <dvdk> so have we been chasing a libc binary compatability problem?
2011-06-20 19:56 <dvdk> (well, the uclibc was compiled with debug information, but that shouldn't change anything i guess, as the debug info is only kept on the host)
2011-06-20 19:56 <xMff> it does change things
2011-06-20 19:57 <xMff> for example I recently fixed a segfault in gethostbyname_r() which did *not* occur when built with debug info
2011-06-20 19:57 <dvdk> good to know.  too lazy recompiling libc yet again :)
2011-06-20 19:57 <dvdk> thought he read 'it does NOT change things
2011-06-20 19:57 <dvdk> ok, so not so good.
2011-06-20 19:57 <xMff> which obviously must not mean that this is the case here
2011-06-20 19:58 <dvdk> ok, doing another run of toolchain/libc/compile
2011-06-20 19:59 <dvdk> but if it does happpen again, i'm going to get crazy.  because the crash happens inside uclibc, and without debug-info (remote) gdb is completely lost
2011-06-20 20:01 <dvdk> i notice it asks me about "ctype argument checking"
2011-06-20 20:01 <dvdk> on 'make toolchain/compile'
2011-06-20 20:02 <dvdk> and there is an option 'Issue a diagnostic and abort()'
2011-06-20 20:02 <dvdk> any chance that this was enabled in the nightly build trunk images?  
2011-06-20 20:02 <dvdk> because SIGABORT is how ASE dies
2011-06-20 20:02 <dvdk> i set it to Detect and handle appropriately
2011-06-20 20:02 <dvdk> (i.e. not abort)
2011-06-20 20:14 <dvdk> shxx! without debug information it crashes again
2011-06-20 20:15 <wpwrak> dvdk: that's when the wavefunction collapses
2011-06-20 20:15 <dvdk> lol
2011-06-20 20:15 <dvdk> a heisenbug
2011-06-20 20:16 <dvdk> and another round of libc compilation, again with debug info just to be sure
2011-06-20 20:23 <dvdk> hmm, now crashes with debug information, too.  maybe it's the gdb that kept it running
2011-06-20 20:32 <dvdk> hmm, looks like i only recompiled libc all the time, but the libc*.ipk wasn't rebuild.  what's the target for this?
2011-06-20 20:33 <dvdk> toolchain/uClibc/install doesn't help
2011-06-20 20:38 <dvdk> turns out it needs make package/base-files/{clean,install}
2011-06-20 20:40 <dvdk> uups, looks like upgrading uclibc was a bad idea after all. nanononet doesn't  boot any more.  caught in a loop printing 'segmentation fault'
2011-06-20 20:40 <dvdk> and reflashing
2011-06-20 20:43 <wpwrak> dvdk: this is your opportunity to switch to glibc ;-)
2011-06-20 20:43 <dvdk> :)
2011-06-20 20:44 <dvdk> baah, then i could just switch to running debian
2011-06-20 20:45 <dvdk> flashing with the last nightly build.  hmm.  why does it have to be so slow...
2011-06-20 20:45 <dvdk> also flashing bootloader, let's hope it doesn't break
2011-06-20 20:45 <kristianpaul> glibc? why not to try bionic :-D
2011-06-20 20:46 <kristianpaul> so wen can put android word in the makerking stuff and sell more nanonotes :p
2011-06-20 20:47 <wpwrak> dvdk: (debian) you should run gentoo, with local builds
2011-06-20 20:48 <dvdk> rofl
2011-06-20 20:48 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (android) yeah, "compatible with Android Bionic libc". of the few million people who google for this every day, a few ought to get sufficiently confused that they buy a ben ;)
2011-06-20 20:48 <dvdk> maybe i should go for option #3 as suggested by Emeka: just run a bare bones forth interpreter wtihout any OS.  on more libc hassle  (and no more C-software that throws sigbort at me)
2011-06-20 20:49 <dvdk> s/on/no
2011-06-20 20:49 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: (confused) lol
2011-06-20 20:57 <wpwrak> heh. great moments of busybox #419: http://pastebin.com/ADBGUkA1
2011-06-20 20:57 <wpwrak> question: what will be in "out" after this ?
2011-06-20 20:58 <dvdk> no please don't tell me
2011-06-20 20:59 <wpwrak> with jlime's busybox, "bar"
2011-06-20 20:59 <wpwrak> with openwrt's busybox, "fobar"
2011-06-20 21:00 <kristianpaul> what?
2011-06-20 21:00 <kristianpaul> why?
2011-06-20 21:01 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: yes, "why" indeed ;-)
2011-06-20 21:01 <kristianpaul> :S
2011-06-20 21:02 <kristianpaul> thats a fair point to re-install jlime on my nanonote :)
2011-06-20 21:02 <wpwrak> (well, that's with openwrt from a while ago. 2011-02-23-ish.)
2011-06-20 21:02 <dvdk> don't believe him, hi's going to tell you anything to lure you away from openwrt :)
2011-06-20 21:02 <kristianpaul> hehe
2011-06-20 21:02 <wpwrak> dvdk: if you have the latest openwrt installed, maybe give it a try :)
2011-06-20 21:03 <kristianpaul> i have my modem
2011-06-20 21:03 <kristianpaul> router*
2011-06-20 21:03 <dvdk> i'm looking forward to it.  if flashing weren't that slow...
2011-06-20 21:03 <kristianpaul> i;ll give a try right now
2011-06-20 21:04 <wpwrak> dvdk: that that was actually aimed more at busybox than at openwrt. it's just one of those typical little annoyances it creates.
2011-06-20 21:04 <kristianpaul> oh, god !
2011-06-20 21:04 <kristianpaul> root@nano:~# cat out 
2011-06-20 21:04 <kristianpaul> fobar
2011-06-20 21:04 <wpwrak> *grin*
2011-06-20 21:04 <kristianpaul> and is last stable openwrt :/
2011-06-20 21:05 <dvdk> wpwrak: creates much more annoyances with complex software.  like emacs parsing 'ls' output etc.
2011-06-20 21:05 <wpwrak> at least now i understand why my MMC driver shutting-up script fails to miserably to silence the at86rc230 driver :)
2011-06-20 21:05 <dvdk> but then it's leightweight, and we only have 32mb of ram
2011-06-20 21:06 <wpwrak> i kinda wonder if it really matters that much. these tools are still quite small and you don't normally run a lot of them at the same time
2011-06-20 21:06 <xMff> seems a problem with ash
2011-06-20 21:07 <wpwrak> (my script where i originally encountered the problem) http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/ub
2011-06-20 21:07 <xMff> echo and printf result in weird output
2011-06-20 21:07 <xMff> cat and /usr/bin/printf (=not shell builtin) get ENOSPC
2011-06-20 21:07 <wpwrak> a wpan kernel has no mmc driver, so the first echo fails. then, when it tries to turn off at86rf230, the echo writes nonsense, which the kernel ignores, leaving the driver still enabled
2011-06-20 21:08 <xMff> I know its annoying but I suggest to use /usr/bin/printf
2011-06-20 21:08 <xMff> it will behave as expected
2011-06-20 21:08 <xMff> or /bin/echo
2011-06-20 21:09 <wpwrak> i'll just wait for the fix. i think i now got everyone's attention ;-)
2011-06-20 21:10 <kristianpaul> lets see
2011-06-20 21:11 <kristianpaul> it works !
2011-06-20 21:11 <kristianpaul> root@nano:~# cat out 
2011-06-20 21:11 <kristianpaul> bar
2011-06-20 21:11 <kristianpaul> thanks for the hint xMff 
2011-06-20 21:13 <dvdk> ok, latest snapshot boots
2011-06-20 21:13 <dvdk> huh?  flashed the wrong version?
2011-06-20 21:14 <xMff> busybox and/or uclibc has other weird issues as well
2011-06-20 21:15 <xMff> at least on openwrt
2011-06-20 21:15 <xMff> or at least used to have
2011-06-20 21:15 <dvdk> ah, just the gmenu2x doesn't have my latest commits (revision not updated in its makefile i guess)
2011-06-20 21:16 <dvdk> and still aborting
2011-06-20 21:18 <xMff> I guess we want that: http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox-cvs/2011-February/032261.html
2011-06-20 21:18 <xMff> looks invasive
2011-06-20 21:20 <dvdk> wpwrak: 'fobar' with latest openwrt-trunk, too
2011-06-20 21:20 <dvdk> hmm, after flashing 'ubiattach' dropped from the image
2011-06-20 21:21 <dvdk> cannot mount my second ubi data partition
2011-06-20 21:23 <wpwrak> xMff: quite heavy indeed
2011-06-20 21:24 <xMff> I'll see if we can backport it
2011-06-20 21:25 <kristianpaul> is not a ash problem then, why patch is with echo?
2011-06-20 21:26 <dvdk> next try at installing debug-mode uclibc on top of running system
2011-06-20 21:26 <dvdk> huuhhh.. segmentation fault.
2011-06-20 21:27 <dvdk> ok, doesn't boot AGAIN.  need to reflash again.  
2011-06-20 21:27 <dvdk> ah, it's just gmenu2x, console still running
2011-06-20 21:29 <wpwrak> hmm, coreutils, indeed
2011-06-20 21:34 <xMff> kristianpaul: ash calls into echo_main from echo.c
2011-06-20 21:34 <xMff> however the busybox version that openwrt uses, calls writev() to output its data
2011-06-20 21:34 <xMff> so I think its an uclibc bug :)
2011-06-20 21:34 <wpwrak> ah, busybox repo. then it makes sense. still a busybox problem, as i suspected
2011-06-20 21:35 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: jlime uses coreutils from gnu insted? or..
2011-06-20 21:35 <wpwrak> xMff: why don't we have this fix yet ? is openwrt behind or is qi-hw lagging ?
2011-06-20 21:36 <xMff> we use bb 1.18.4
2011-06-20 21:36 <xMff> which was the official stable until six days ago
2011-06-20 21:37 <xMff> now its 1.18.5
2011-06-20 21:37 <xMff> might be even fixed there
2011-06-20 21:37 <wpwrak> amazing that nobody else tripped over it before
2011-06-20 21:38 <wpwrak> "echo" is kinda crucial :)
2011-06-20 21:38 <xMff> I suspect its the uclibc
2011-06-20 21:38 <xMff> not busybox
2011-06-20 21:59 <xMff> regarding the missing ubiattach.. mirko did split the mtd utils into separate packages, so the Qo config probably needs updates
2011-06-20 21:59 <xMff> *Qi config