2011-06-07 00:00 how to check 2a? 2011-06-07 00:00 dmesg -> the pastebin of your choice 2011-06-07 00:00 (if it doesn't say anything about at86rf230, then there's no wpan driver in there) 2011-06-07 00:01 dmesg|grep at86rf230 returns no results 2011-06-07 00:01 if the kernel drivers are active while the user space tools are trying to run, they're giving each other a merry chase 2011-06-07 00:02 ok then previous checks done 2011-06-07 00:02 let's see what the exact message (and case) is .... 2011-06-07 00:04 yeha, "at86rf230" is a good string to search for 2011-06-07 00:04 M1 working on 16bpp? DUH! 2011-06-07 00:04 exciting little board, but honestly, 16bpp for video? 2011-06-07 00:04 tuxbrain: did you update the tools to the latest version from git ? 2011-06-07 00:04 wpwrak: yes 2011-06-07 00:05 24 ok, but 16 2011-06-07 00:05 tuxbrain: alright. then run atrf-proxy on the ben 2011-06-07 00:05 but I'm having problems on my desktop to find gls dev packages 2011-06-07 00:05 DocScrutinizer: meanwhile, ubb-vga produced quite decent pictures with 16 bits ;-) 2011-06-07 00:05 ubuntu 10.04 here 2011-06-07 00:06 wpwrak: no problem, as long as you don't have video 2011-06-07 00:06 fuck is gsl 2011-06-07 00:06 I.E. moving pictures 2011-06-07 00:06 libgsl0-dev ? 2011-06-07 00:07 aye, GSL. GNU Scientific Library ;-) 2011-06-07 00:08 DocScrutinizer: i don't think motion makes all that much of a difference 2011-06-07 00:08 ok desktop compilation ok going to compile to ben 2011-06-07 00:08 wpwrak: it does 2011-06-07 00:08 you get terrible banding 2011-06-07 00:09 which you can't usually spot in still pictures 2011-06-07 00:09 tuxbrain: and don't forget the  echo jz4740-mmc.0 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/jz4740-mmc/unbind  on the ben. else atrf-proxy and the mmc driver will have a lot of fun with each other :) 2011-06-07 00:09 DocScrutinizer: hmm. guess someone has to try :) 2011-06-07 00:09 unless of course you got 4:2:2 YUV ow whatever 2011-06-07 00:10 I guess M1 is uing 5:5:5 RGP 2011-06-07 00:10 RGB 2011-06-07 00:10 DocScrutinizer: err ... did i say "16 bits" ? nonsense. it's of course 16 _colors_ ! 2011-06-07 00:11 sure, for HD 2011-06-07 00:11 DocScrutinizer: this is what you can do with 16 colors plus dithering: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/ubb-vga-bouquet-dither222.jpg 2011-06-07 00:12 I know what you can do with 3 colors plus dithering 2011-06-07 00:12 good :) 2011-06-07 00:12 my impact printers all used that technique 2011-06-07 00:13 and Turboprint created some really nice photos 2011-06-07 00:13 on them 2011-06-07 00:13 ok atrf-proxy runnig .. 2011-06-07 00:13 tuxbrain: when everything is ready, run on the PC: atrf-id   should report  20b7:1540 ... #79 Sun Jun ... 2011-06-07 00:14 once you had it calibrated to the 4 color inktape used 2011-06-07 00:14 (4th color = black) 2011-06-07 00:14 wpwrak: yes it does :) 2011-06-07 00:14 tuxbrain: and then  atrf-id -d net:ben   should report  AT86RF231, part 0x03 version 2 manufacturer xxxx001f (Atmel) 2011-06-07 00:15 yes it does too :) 2011-06-07 00:15 excellent 2011-06-07 00:15 now let's try t send/receive. window A on the PC: atrf-txrx 2011-06-07 00:15 wpwrak: anyway, nice result for a UBB 2011-06-07 00:15 window B: atrf-txrx -d net:ben hello 2011-06-07 00:16 DocScrutinizer: i was a bit surprised myself :) the horizontal stripes are timing variations. should be possible to reduce them. 2011-06-07 00:17 5 bytes payload, CRC OK, LQI 255, ED -53 dBm 2011-06-07 00:17 hello 2011-06-07 00:17 you probably have to dig out and re-digest your supertape sources ;-) 2011-06-07 00:18 anyway, o/ 2011-06-07 00:18 tuxbrain: excellent. now the reverse direction: window A: atrf-txrx -d net:ben 2011-06-07 00:18 tuxbrain: then window B: atrf-txrx greetings 2011-06-07 00:19 o.O 2011-06-07 00:19 9 bytes payload, CRC OK, LQI 255, ED -54 dBm 2011-06-07 00:19 greetings 2011-06-07 00:19 Mr Marconi live? 2011-06-07 00:20 tuxbrain: kewl. so the basic bits are in good shape. 2011-06-07 00:20 let's try spectrum? 2011-06-07 00:20 tuxbrain: yeah. atrf-path -g net:ben usb 2011-06-07 00:21 tuxbrain: you should see: a blinking green dot in the upper right corner. and some white line 2011-06-07 00:22 ok fanci withe line is dancing on a black box 2011-06-07 00:22 excellent 2011-06-07 00:22 quit with Q 2011-06-07 00:22 ok done 2011-06-07 00:22 then  atrf-path -g usb net:ben 2011-06-07 00:23 stuked :( 2011-06-07 00:23 hmm. nothing at all ? not even the green dot ? 2011-06-07 00:24 no green dot no withe line no reponse to Q 2011-06-07 00:24 interesting. kill it, then try the other one. does that one still work ? 2011-06-07 00:25 yes atrf-path -g net:ben usb works 2011-06-07 00:26 okay. exit. atrf-reset -a (will spit out an error, ATUSB_RESET: -84) 2011-06-07 00:26 then try  atrf-path -g usb net:ben  again 2011-06-07 00:27 nothing changes still black unresponsible box 2011-06-07 00:27 hmm. searching ... 2011-06-07 00:28 does dmesg on the pc say anything interesting ? 2011-06-07 00:28 . . .___ .___ .___ ___ - . - -___ - - -___ . . -___ ___ . - . .___ . -___ -___ .___ . - .___ ___ . . . - . -___ 2011-06-07 00:28 DocScrutinizer: whatever :) 2011-06-07 00:28 the atrf-resest has thow the error the atusb led blink onces but atrf-path -g usb net:ben still doesn't work 2011-06-07 00:29 good. atrf-reset does what's expected of it. so far, so good. 2011-06-07 00:30 no dmesg don't reveal anything 2011-06-07 00:30 usbfs: USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed cmd atrf-reset rqt 64 rq 2 len 0 ret -84 2011-06-07 00:30 [705361.792558] usb 2-1: USB disconnect, address 7 2011-06-07 00:30 [705362.070021] usb 2-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 8 2011-06-07 00:30 [705362.237131] usb 2-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice 2011-06-07 00:31 [705363.790046] usb 2-1: USB disconnect, address 8 2011-06-07 00:31 [705364.580017] usb 2-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 9 2011-06-07 00:31 [705364.755418] usb 2-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice 2011-06-07 00:32 looks good. maybe try the other atusb ? 2011-06-07 00:32 good? 2011-06-07 00:32 with all the reconnects? 2011-06-07 00:32 or were those resets? 2011-06-07 00:32 DocScrutinizer: at least one reset, yes 2011-06-07 00:33 I'd try lsusb 2011-06-07 00:34 DocScrutinizer: naw, the tools complain if they don't find the device 2011-06-07 00:39 tuxbrain: one possible cause for a hang would be the PLL not locking. atrf-txrx just times out and proceeds in this case, but atrf-path waits. 2011-06-07 00:40 tuxbrain: or, alternatively, the interrupt line could malfunction. 2011-06-07 00:40 so... 2011-06-07 00:40 tuxbrain: but let's try the other atusb board first 2011-06-07 00:40 The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.trunk-full_system-06052011-2125/ 2011-06-07 00:41 he the other atusb doesn't enumerate even reflashing 2011-06-07 00:41 tuxbrain: urgh :-( 2011-06-07 00:41 okay, let's debug #1 then ... 2011-06-07 00:42 tuxbrain: do yo uhave an oscilloscope that can do at least 10 MHz ? 2011-06-07 00:42 no :( 2011-06-07 00:43 let's have fun with the full test suite then. cd to ben-wpan/prod/  then  make usb 2011-06-07 00:43 see what happens ;-) 2011-06-07 00:44 ah ... first,  touch usb.profile   :) 2011-06-07 00:45 ./atusb net:ben usb 2011-06-07 00:45 ....  Enumeration\r\033[42;30m PASS \033[0m 2011-06-07 00:45 ....  LED 2011-06-07 00:45 Press [P]ass if the LED blinks, [F]ail if not 2011-06-07 00:46 \r\033[42;30m PASS \033[0m 2011-06-07 00:46 ....  GPIO scan (P_ON)\r\033[41;37m FAIL \033[0m 2011-06-07 00:46 make: *** [usb] Error 1 2011-06-07 00:46 hmm, your "echo" sucks :) 2011-06-07 00:46 any way to improve it? 2011-06-07 00:46 good. seems that it found something. cat _log   --> pastebin 2011-06-07 00:47 tuxbrain: what's your  ls -l /bin/sh  ? 2011-06-07 00:48 http://pastebin.com/cqLHNnbv 2011-06-07 00:48 bash 2011-06-07 00:50 ah, and my ubuntu gave me dash there. does  /bin/echo -e '\033[7mhi\033[m'  work ? 2011-06-07 00:50 DocScrutinizer: btw, you may want to have a look at this month's community news. there are more pictures there, also from ubb-vga: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Copyleft_Hardware_News_2011-06-01 2011-06-07 00:51 yes it gives me a withe bg black fg 'hi' 2011-06-07 00:51 (pastebin) hmm.. MOSI. now that's unusual ... 2011-06-07 00:52 why this sentence on the expert doen't reconforts me....? 2011-06-07 00:54 oh, where there's a hammer, there's a technical solution ....;-) 2011-06-07 00:57 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/Common: try to obtain more consistent handling of \033 in echo http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6e3edf3 2011-06-07 00:57 tuxbrain: this should fix the echo problem 2011-06-07 00:58 dudes is late night here , I am about to dislocate my jaw yawning, I will read any posible workarround tomorrow... in two days aprox I will have the production ones (already done, just last payment and shipment left) yes I know I was to be there to do in situ test but a missundertood messages form factory from my part had made them go ahead, so I will do that flashing/tests at home. I'm crosing my fingers to everything works ok , if not ... well let' 2011-06-07 00:58 s see 2011-06-07 00:59 funny. now i also get that problem with MOSI. maybe i messed up something else :) checking ... 2011-06-07 00:59 wpwrak: please tellme is all about software.... 2011-06-07 00:59 (production) oh dear ... we'll, let's pray to the gods of murphy then ... 2011-06-07 01:00 the advantage of the production already being done is that you'll either have some ~100 atusb boards you can use as a reference - or none at all to worry about ;-) 2011-06-07 01:02 ah, and it would be good if you could find an oscilloscope for tomorrow. we need at least one channel, minimum range 10 MHz. 2011-06-07 01:02 the scope will be useful for debugging the other board. plus any issues that may pop up with the boards from the factory 2011-06-07 01:03 ah, now i see what caused MOSI misbehaviour here. let's try this: 2011-06-07 01:03 atrf-gpio -p HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.ohzoHoHH 2011-06-07 01:03 does it complain ? 2011-06-07 01:04 nop 2011-06-07 01:04 It has to? 2011-06-07 01:05 hmm, lemme think about this for a moment :) 2011-06-07 01:05 if you remote the -p, it complains, right ? 2011-06-07 01:05 remoVe 2011-06-07 01:06 if this is  a complain then yes http://pastebin.com/cKwCnmUK 2011-06-07 01:07 yes. it complained about MOSI. very good. 2011-06-07 01:07 now, try again WITH the -p 2011-06-07 01:07 it complains again 2011-06-07 01:08 looks like a reset problem then 2011-06-07 01:08 do you have a multimeter ? 2011-06-07 01:08 yes 2011-06-07 01:09 excellent. lemme cook up a test sequence .... 2011-06-07 01:10 meanwhile, you could try this: 2011-06-07 01:10 atrf-gpio 02:8/0x1f reset 02:0/0x1f 2011-06-07 01:11 nothing apearntly happens 2011-06-07 01:12 hmm. so reset seems to work. 2011-06-07 01:13 while atrf-gpio 02:8/0x1f reset 02:0/0x1f; do /bin/echo -n .; done 2011-06-07 01:13 maybe it's a timing problem 2011-06-07 01:14 a lot of dots fill the shell 2011-06-07 01:14 but no error ? that would be good then 2011-06-07 01:14 no no error 2011-06-07 01:15 reset is exonerated then :) 2011-06-07 01:15 does   atrf-gpio -p HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.ohzoHoHH 2011-06-07 01:15 still complain about MOSI ? 2011-06-07 01:16 yes 2011-06-07 01:16 how about  atrf-gpio -p delay HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.ohzoHoHH 2011-06-07 01:16 yes 2011-06-07 01:17 yes it complains too, 2011-06-07 01:17 atrf-gpio -p HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.oh0oHoHH 2011-06-07 01:18 yes it complains too 2011-06-07 01:18 atrf-gpio -p HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.o0zoHoHH 2011-06-07 01:18 yes it complains too 2011-06-07 01:19 *hmm* very interesting 2011-06-07 01:19 I'm not kidding :) it complains 2011-06-07 01:20 atrf-gpio -p HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.ohzo0oHH 2011-06-07 01:21 it complains again 2011-06-07 01:21 atrf-gpio -p HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.ohz0HoHH delay HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.ohzoHoHH '# grr' 2011-06-07 01:23 again http://pastebin.com/FpXyLNHi 2011-06-07 01:23 sanity check. this doesn't complain, does it ?  atrf-gpio -p HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.ohzhHoHH 2011-06-07 01:24 nop 2011-06-07 01:24 phew :) 2011-06-07 01:25 ok my fears that you have conenected a chat boot and go to sleep are gone :P 2011-06-07 01:25 and in the last ~5 commands, you always had the -p, right ? 2011-06-07 01:25 ;-)))) 2011-06-07 01:26 yeah, the chat bot could nicely produce some 10^24 patterns for you to try ;-)) 2011-06-07 01:26 man I have c&p whatever you put here not wanna write by hand the HHozhhHH.... thing 2011-06-07 01:26 hehe :) 2011-06-07 01:27 it's still rather mysterious. atrf-gpio 02:8/0x1f reset 02:0/0x1f  still works ? 2011-06-07 01:28 yes 2011-06-07 01:28 also the dots 2011-06-07 01:28 hmm. what these commands did was set all the pins and traces surrounding MOSI to 0. yet it still reads high. 2011-06-07 01:29 after reset, the transceiver should activate a pull-down, so it should be low (unless the MCU overrides it) 2011-06-07 01:29 wait, the dots still running? 2011-06-07 01:29 no I have stop them before puting the commands dude :) 2011-06-07 01:29 :-) 2011-06-07 01:30 i happen to have a board with a broken reset line. that one fails also with the MOSI, but it also fails the ... reset ... test 2011-06-07 01:30 let's try something a little more aggressive then ... 2011-06-07 01:31 I have the hammer ready 2011-06-07 01:31 lol 2011-06-07 01:32 atrf-gpio -p 00000010.00000001.z0zo000 2011-06-07 01:33 the 'o' look better, indeed 2011-06-07 01:33 http://pastebin.com/0uxiemjX I'm still have the hammer 2011-06-07 01:35 atrf-gpio -p 00000000.00000000.0000000 delay 00000000.00000000.000o0000 2011-06-07 01:36 definitively MOSI don't go to go to sleep tonight http://pastebin.com/kfC1h8p4 2011-06-07 01:36 your atrf-gpio is a lil turing-engine, huh? 2011-06-07 01:37 atrf-gpio -p 00000000.00000000.0000000 delay 00000000.00000001.00000000 delay 00000000.00000001.000o0000 2011-06-07 01:38 DocScrutinizer: it shares the clarity and intuitiveness of the design ;-) 2011-06-07 01:38 messages from MOSI:Don't let the party stops!!! http://pastebin.com/6P2AnV6X 2011-06-07 01:39 time for the voltmeter then ... 2011-06-07 01:39 damn it... 2011-06-07 01:39 tztztz 2011-06-07 01:39 MOSI is the line that goes straight from MCU to RF 2011-06-07 01:39 (there's only one) 2011-06-07 01:40 left and right from it are vias 2011-06-07 01:40 tuxbrain: do you see it ? 2011-06-07 01:40 a pic and arrow please? 2011-06-07 01:41 i knew i should have guified that mess ... 2011-06-07 01:42 guify vias, traces? 2011-06-07 01:44 http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/mosi.png 2011-06-07 01:44 DocScrutinizer: that gpio checker utility 2011-06-07 01:44 DocScrutinizer: showing the layout and the (supposed) configuration 2011-06-07 01:45 :-D 2011-06-07 01:45 ncurses cuts it 2011-06-07 01:46 not though if even echo sucks 2011-06-07 01:46 mmmm it marks 0 on tester 2011-06-07 01:46 on ansi esc 2011-06-07 01:47 gnd is the exterior of the usb connector isn't it? so black in usbconnector , red in that line it should be some voltage... isn't it? 2011-06-07 01:47 the nice thing with digital electronics: you can test easily, as everthing won't mind you shorting sth to gnd 2011-06-07 01:48 tuxbrain: yes, sounds good 2011-06-07 01:49 tuxbrain: you can test by measuring the voltage between GND and P12 (the 2nd test point from the USB connector) 2011-06-07 01:49 now you hooked me, where's the schematics 2011-06-07 01:49 pdf please 2011-06-07 01:49 yep last command atrf-gpio -p 00000000.00000000.0000000 delay 00000000.00000001.00000000 delay 00000000.00000001.000o0000 no complains now 2011-06-07 01:50 that should be ~3.3 (+/- 0.3) V 2011-06-07 01:50 DocScrutinizer: always a reliable source for schematics: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/ 2011-06-07 01:50 3,25 yes 2011-06-07 01:51 k, too much effort to find the right one 2011-06-07 01:51 cya 2011-06-07 01:51 tuxbrain: maybe this board has a bonding defect. i got a few of these. may be my soldering process 2011-06-07 01:51 wpwrak: after run the command the MOSI turs on again 2011-06-07 01:53 tuxbrain: do you have a USB A to USB A cable ? lemme take a picture of my setup ... 2011-06-07 01:53 I try to un plug/plug but it that mosi stills on 2011-06-07 01:56 tuxbrain: TUXBRAIN! 2011-06-07 01:56 tuxbrain: just a sec ... 2011-06-07 01:56 hehehe hey wolfy! 2011-06-07 01:56 oh wow ! 2011-06-07 01:56 hi tuxbrain :-) 2011-06-07 01:57 common guy you gonna make me red :P 2011-06-07 01:58 getting fun with atusb, huh? :-) 2011-06-07 01:59 hopefully not with hamers and other related hardware.. 2011-06-07 01:59 http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/clamp.jpg 2011-06-07 01:59 tuxbrain: can you fix the board in a way similar to this ? 2011-06-07 02:00 having some fun trying to sync two clocks domains :/ 2011-06-07 02:00 tuxbrain: the goal would be to be able to push a bit of paper (the ball on the left) under the antenna, to gently bend the board upward a little 2011-06-07 02:01 wpwrak: is hard to focus that pic, if is necesary do to so for the scope probe.. 2011-06-07 02:01 ah paper.. 2011-06-07 02:01 tuxbrain: that i've seen in a few of the boards i made is that some contacts fail. if i bend the board, those contacts often come back. 2011-06-07 02:02 kristianpaul: the multimeter probe just happens to be there. it's connected to a very conveniently placed pieced of ground. (much harder to attach it to the shield) 2011-06-07 02:05 wpwrak: I can do that but not now, my claps are in the deep in the "tools closed" and I will make a lot of noise to pull them out, so I will arrange this setup tomorrow morning and try the bending fix then. 2011-06-07 02:06 tuxbrain: okay. the same thing may also help with the other board. 2011-06-07 02:06 tuxbrain: most likely, the other board fails to change the clock speed. so the mcu runs at 1 MHz instead of 8 MHz, which is wrong for USB 2011-06-07 02:06 oh wait! aha clamp find in a shelve 2011-06-07 02:08 if you can "accidentally" drop a box of, say, metal tools from the shelf, you wouldn't have to worry about making noise after that :) 2011-06-07 02:09 ok tellme some comands 2011-06-07 02:10 hey commands that complains before now not complain 2011-06-07 02:14 cryptic? 2011-06-07 02:14 now it fails in cristal  frequency http://pastebin.com/aw0cMHJ6 2011-06-07 02:16 atrf-path -g usb net:ben  still stucks 2011-06-07 02:17 let's see ... 2011-06-07 02:17 does the PC run ntpd ? 2011-06-07 02:18 ops let me check 2011-06-07 02:19 (commands not complaining) that's good :) atrf-path still being stuck is bad, though 2011-06-07 02:20 we're now running out of excuses for atrf-path to be stuck :) 2011-06-07 02:20 the gpio errors on make usb returns :( 2011-06-07 02:22 tuxbrain: have you put some paper under the board ? 2011-06-07 02:22 (to bend it) 2011-06-07 02:22 yes and it work it once to arrive to the cristal check but now it doesn't work :( 2011-06-07 02:23 try removing the paper then :) 2011-06-07 02:23 bending the board such that the defective bonds connect isn't an exact science :) 2011-06-07 02:24 the good news is that the boards made at the fab are extremely unlikely to have that kind of problem (well, unless i misunderstood completely what's going on) 2011-06-07 02:29 no way, due it works once I'm sure it a fault connect as you said, but it seems to not return to connect and I'm afraid to split the card in two if I still trying to bend it more, time to some sleep, and crossing our finguers that fab atusb/atbens are in good shape.... to at least see the black box with the withe line dancing on it... 2011-06-07 02:29 good night 2011-06-07 02:29 let's hope for better luck tomorrow :) 2011-06-07 02:30 tuxbrain: sweet dreams ! :) 2011-06-07 06:39 what's exactly that Theora support for Ben? a SIMD-optimized decoder? 2011-06-07 06:42 yes, or scaler rather I think 2011-06-07 06:45 hmm, does 4720 have a scaling IPU? 2011-06-07 06:45 like 4750l 2011-06-07 07:08 does Ben have a display to make any use of that? 2011-06-07 07:11 well, there are some cases when you want to squeeze FullHD to 320x240 2011-06-07 07:11 and the IPU is very handy then! 2011-06-07 07:14 has printed a quote by Doc and put it on the wall 2011-06-07 08:59 wolfspraul, wpwrak rejon and other on line of course... I was thinking on change the comercial name of atben/atusb to odino/valhala , this strange inspiration comes as always does to me listening a song :P , this one http://www.jamendo.com/es/track/655800 2011-06-07 09:00 what do you think... i have de promo video in mind :P 2011-06-07 09:02 of course will not the full song, but the intro , chorus and the "lambada" solo are awesome for a video promo. 2011-06-07 09:04 also the "the wall"+morricone hohoho 2011-06-07 09:06 I don't care, but if one thing is badly broken in copyleft hardware land, it's brands :-) 2011-06-07 09:06 so I am starting to focus a bit, for example I removed the "Manufacturing: Sharism" line on the upcoming m1 run 2011-06-07 09:06 that's all just Milkymist now 2011-06-07 09:06 tuxbrain is also a cool brand I think 2011-06-07 09:09 ya but Tuxbrain's atusb sound less cooler than Tuxbrain's Valhalla the Might USB 6lowpan dongle 2011-06-07 09:09 :P 2011-06-07 09:11 where I work, 'Valhalla' sounds more like an internal name for a project, never labelled as such outside the company :) 2011-06-07 09:11 Tuxbrain's Odino Empower your NanoNote and cut with wires :P 2011-06-07 09:14 ok ok I need to sleep a little bit more... I was just letting the imagination fly from a lot of booring work 2011-06-07 09:14 see you later 2011-06-07 09:38 [commit] David Kühling: new package libdumb: mod/xm player (dumbplay) plus player library for games http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/51707e8 2011-06-07 09:58 Odin, valhalla, and the whole stuff has some strange connotations here in Germany 2011-06-07 09:58 probably in Israel as well 2011-06-07 09:59 just saying... 2011-06-07 10:03 you probably don't want those http://koptisch.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/skinheads.jpg as your primary customer target group 2011-06-07 10:06 http://www.odin-versand.de  <- probably NOT (work)safe 2011-06-07 10:07 actually take care, this size might be rogue 2011-06-07 10:07 site* 2011-06-07 10:09 http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=skinheads+walhalla 2011-06-07 10:10 sorry for being direct here, but I think it's better you stop that idea before it hurts 2011-06-07 10:28 tuxbrain_away: i don't particularly care what you call them, but there's no way in hell that i'm doing a global replace of all the names in code, file names, documentation, etc. ;-) 2011-06-07 10:30 tuxbrain_away: so if you feel strongly about those "marketing names", maybe use them as "nicknames". e.g., atben "odino" and atusb "valhala". of course, all this really accomplishes is that customers have to remember both names. 2011-06-07 10:35 ok dude enough and strong arguments againts to dismiss the idea :) atben will be atben and atusb will be atusb   2011-06-07 10:42 DocScrutinizer: (skinheads) ah well, you have to dismiss pretty much all the northern mythology if you want to avoid things they like :) 2011-06-07 10:45 tuxbrain_away: funny song :) 2011-06-07 10:47 nice .. this morning looks as if it was foggy. but i think it's not fog - it's volcano ashes. with love from chile. 2011-06-07 10:56 tuxbrain_away: we could try to work around the hang and see if the spectrum comes out okay regardless. to do this, you could try: 2011-06-07 10:57 tuxbrain_away: 1) in ben-wpan/tools/lib/cwtest.c:start_test_mode_231, change wait_for_interrupt(dsc, IRQ_PLL_LOCK, IRQ_PLL_LOCK, 10, 0); to .... , 10, 10); 2011-06-07 10:58 tuxbrain_away: 2) cd ben-wpan/tools && make clean && make install 2011-06-07 10:59 tuxbrain_away: 3) atrf-path -g usb net:ben 2011-06-07 11:01 tuxbrain_away: now, if you get a reasonably straight line, all is well. if it looks more like this: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/jagged.png 2011-06-07 11:02 tuxbrain_away: then this would indicate that the transceiver isn't very happy with the change 2011-06-07 11:03 actually, lemme change the atrf-path invocations to always use both bands. that way, we can spot such problems also in the production test ... 2011-06-07 11:06 (background: the test mode can use channel_frequency +/- 0.5 MHz. the spectrum scan in the test scripts only uses one offset, to obtain a faster display update rate. but there are are some communication issues that you don't see that way. you should be able to catch them with other tests, e.g., the gpio test, but may be better to have a bit of redundancy) 2011-06-07 11:07 dang 2011-06-07 11:07 my server has failed miserably -\ this is kyak speaking 2011-06-07 11:09 wow, this webchat is pretty good 2011-06-07 11:09 qwebirc7110: (failure) software or hardware ? 2011-06-07 11:09 hardware, i assume 2011-06-07 11:09 it won't boot 2011-06-07 11:09 my assumption is BIOS 2011-06-07 11:09 ah, lovely 2011-06-07 11:10 i will take it to work tomorrow for a little examination 2011-06-07 11:11 i have a server that sometimes shuts down. did so about 3 times per day a couple of weeks ago, just after two visitors arrived. i diagnosed it as a double fan failure. so i bought replacements but didn't install them yet. the interesting things is that, once i had the replacements, the failures stopped :) 2011-06-07 11:13 heh, i have this habit to close tabs :) 2011-06-07 11:15 kyak_: you should ping timeout now 2011-06-07 11:16 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/: use positive and negative offset in spectrum test http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/66fb9d8 2011-06-07 11:32 [commit] David Kühling: new package: alex4: Alex the Allegator v4: Game-Boy style jump&n&run game http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/51cbdda 2011-06-07 11:49 [commit] David Kühling: alex4: use left shift as fire key (left control missing on Nanonote) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/af0b29d 2011-06-07 11:50 [commit] David Kühling: remove allegro-setup launcher: don't want people to accidentally break sound playback http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/c619514 2011-06-07 11:50 [commit] David Kühling: add launcher for alex4 http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/97adb06 2011-06-07 12:01 wpwrak: I need a "comercial" sort description of atben/atusb to include in the shop, I can add some literature but I need a "specification" items list to put on there, 2011-06-07 12:01 wpwrak: regarding test, I will retake it this afternoon/night in about 6hours from now 2011-06-07 15:02 tuxbrain_away: (test) perfect. i just emerged from my beauty sleep ;-) 2011-06-07 15:10 tuxbrain_away: (commercial description) working on it ... 2011-06-07 15:39 tuxbrain_away: regarding marketing, if you want a catchy name, then attacking the "wpan" may be a more profitable goal. besides the project name itself, there aren't too many direct references to that name, and "WPAN" per se isn't used only with ieee 802.15.4. so you could give the whole product line a code name. no code change required ;-) 2011-06-07 16:00 tuxbrain_away: i'll post the "commercial description" to the list, for comments 2011-06-07 17:07 mmmm WPAN AtBen and WPAN AtUSB sounds catchy and meaninfull :) 2011-06-07 17:11 hmm. i've grown a bit of a dislike for CamelCase ... it's something you always forget. worse, it keeps on changing. e.g., OpenMoko -> Openmoko. and I think MilkyMist also did a Milkymist metamorphosis 2011-06-07 17:12 WPAN atben WPAN atusb? 2011-06-07 17:12 WPAN ATBEN WPAN ATUSB 2011-06-07 17:12 quite a bit of shouting :-) 2011-06-07 17:12 just "atben" and "atusb" ? 2011-06-07 17:13 or come up with some nice name for the product line 2011-06-07 17:13 "Tuxbrain Foliot" line. whatever ;-) 2011-06-07 17:14 mmmm atben atusb  has no meaning at first sight , but adding WPAN  the seems to mean Wireles personal network at ben/usb wich is reall meaninful therefor easy to remember, my thought at least 2011-06-07 17:15 wireles personal area network to be more exact :P 2011-06-07 17:15 maybe "atben (WPAN)" ? 2011-06-07 17:15 why? 2011-06-07 17:16 the names get meaning by their existence ;-) 2011-06-07 17:16 well, and the deeds they're associated with 2011-06-07 17:18 (why) what did the "why" refer to ? the "atben (WPAN)" or the foliot ? the latter would be some minor magical/mythical creature. 2011-06-07 17:28 ok open voting on channel, 2011-06-07 17:28 a) WPAN atben 2011-06-07 17:28 b)atben (WPAN) 2011-06-07 17:28 votes for a 2011-06-07 17:28 votes for a 2011-06-07 17:29 ok two votes for a option :P 2011-06-07 17:29 votes for b :) 2011-06-07 17:31 (i see "wpan" more as a way of saying "this is not wifi" than of narrowing down what it actually is. unfortunately, the only accurate identifiers are IEEE 802.15.4, which is unwieldy, and 6LoWPAN, which we don't have yet) 2011-06-07 17:33 btw how long will take t ohave a 6LoWPAN thing 2011-06-07 17:34 I was real disconnected this days as you my also notice but for tuxbrain (and I hope for qi-hardware in general) good will 2011-06-07 17:35 votes for b ( sounds better ) 2011-06-07 17:35 hard to tell. all that stuff ough to take a few months of work. alas, i'm running out of time. that's why i made the "dirtpan" as a "quick hack" 2011-06-07 17:57 tuxbrain: btw, what's the status with the case/sugru ? 2011-06-07 17:58 I have not ended a succesfull test without it... so until it happens will be any advance on case to compare if sugru eats dB 2011-06-07 18:02 okay, one item for the to do list then :) 2011-06-07 18:03 did the smt fab comment on any difficulties ? 2011-06-07 18:03 wpwrak, btw "Note: this is not an SDIO(tm) device and will only work in 2011-06-07 18:03      products specifically supporting it" 2011-06-07 18:03 does that mean that a) you need a special hardware in your 8:10 slot, or 2011-06-07 18:04 b) it simply isn't a plug-and-play sdio, yet it will work in every sdio slot providing there's software for it on the system? 2011-06-07 18:05 wpwrak: yes two: 2011-06-07 18:06 zear: it means that it doesn't speak the SDIO protocol. you need to be able to bit-bang the individual signals in a way that MMC/SD/SDIO don't do. 2011-06-07 18:06 -Fiducials are not in the cordinates file list 2011-06-07 18:06 -They finally have to remove one of the sides of the atusb pcb panel to place correctly the USB connector (as we have adviced) 2011-06-07 18:06 tuxbrain: (fiducials) aw. okay, that's fixable. 2011-06-07 18:06 wpwrak, pardon my lack of the proper technical knowledge, but does it mean it will work in any 8:10 slot, or not? 2011-06-07 18:07 i'm mostly concerned about the Dingoo A320 2011-06-07 18:07 tuxbrain: (usb) heh, we told the pcb guys about a dozen times ;-) i think the removal should have been easy, though, correct ? 2011-06-07 18:07 zear: meanwhile you where able to "disconnect" the SDIO driver owning it I suppost that yes 2011-06-07 18:07 zear: no it won't work in any slot with the 8:10 card or uSD form factor 2011-06-07 18:08 zrafa has a dingoo he got from me, so perhaps you two could test ben-wpan on it once meet the next time ;) 2011-06-07 18:08 zear: you need to be able to a) run a specific driver, and b) that driver needs to be able to bit-bang the signals. 2011-06-07 18:08 *once you 2011-06-07 18:08 zear: let me give you a counter-example: 2011-06-07 18:08 wpwrak: yes, it was easy, they where more annoyed by the fiducial thing, nothing irritating but the have remarked me this a lot 2011-06-07 18:09 wpwrak, so it's all software limitations 2011-06-07 18:09 not the slot hardware 2011-06-07 18:09 zear: if you have an MMC/SD/SDIO-to-USB controller chip (often found in laptops/netbooks), then that chip would implement operations like "send command with response type R1" or "send command with response type R2 and a data block" 2011-06-07 18:10 zear: the conrtoller would then generate a number of transitions of the signal lines for those commands. atben wouldn't understand any of this. 2011-06-07 18:10 wpwrak, i'm thinking of the miniSD slot in the Dingoo A320, which supports SDIO, so i assume there's no sd-to-usb trickery like in laptops 2011-06-07 18:11 zear: i don't know the dingoo. can you point me to the schematics ? then i could probably tell whether it's possible 2011-06-07 18:11 wpwrak, let me see if i can find anything 2011-06-07 18:12 also, feel free to bother rafa about showing you the real thing, i already told him he has to show it to you one day ;D 2011-06-07 18:12 wpwrak: I don't think there are public schematics for the Dingoo, but it's a JZ4740 based system 2011-06-07 18:12 tuxbrain: any thoughts of when atben/atusb will be available for order? 2011-06-07 18:12 zear: zrafa new lives a long distance (some 1.2 Mm) away from me. currently snowed in below volcanic ashes :) 2011-06-07 18:12 we're running a kernel on it that is derived from qi-kernel 2011-06-07 18:12 wpwrak, yeah, i know 2011-06-07 18:13 though you two will eventually meet ;) 2011-06-07 18:13 mth: okay, then the chances of atben working out of the box are probably pretty good. well, unless they did something really stupid ;-) 2011-06-07 18:13 zear: sure. he comes to town every now and then. 2011-06-07 18:14 whitequark, even there is no official annoucement yet and the shop descriptions are totally ugly (I will fix it ASAP) you can order them now, I will spend all weekend flashing/testing/praying to have some ready to send on tuesday (monday is holidays here) 2011-06-07 18:14 wpwrak, the thing has a broken screen and afaik it pretty much dusts somewhere on rafa's desk, so would be nice if he actually used it for something ;) 2011-06-07 18:15 tuxbrain: just don't start charging credit cards before at least one has been verified to be okay ;-) 2011-06-07 18:15 tuxbrain, any estimated price range of ben-wpan you guys expect it to be? 2011-06-07 18:16 tuxbrain: sure. what payment options do you have? 2011-06-07 18:16 zear: ;-) you guys should buy bens instead, not some weird dingoos ;-) 2011-06-07 18:17 zear: without vat and no shiping 25¬ atben /35¬ atusb /50¬ the combo 2011-06-07 18:17 wpwrak, i do have a ben, from the first batch ;) 2011-06-07 18:17 it's dusting away :P 2011-06-07 18:18 tuxbrain, ouch, a bit pricey 2011-06-07 18:18 zear: order 1k and will be a lot cheaper :P 2011-06-07 18:18 but that's an appropriate price for a small batch 2011-06-07 18:19 tuxbrain: hmm. so a quick calculation suggests that you're actually losing money on them ? :) 2011-06-07 18:19 whitequark: credit card, bank transfer and paypal 2011-06-07 18:19 wpwrak: not not loosing money but not earning a lot with them :P 2011-06-07 18:20 wpwrak, oh, and the weird dingoos have actually gaming controls, you guys should not buy weird gaming controls-less hardware designs from china ;) 2011-06-07 18:20 tuxbrain: (not losing) heh, good.  at least something :) 2011-06-07 18:21 zear: bah, the ben has a full keyboard. that more gaming control could you possibly want ;) 2011-06-07 18:21 wpwrak: covering fab costs and bit of the hours I will spend flashing leting the sking on my finges with your "confortable" flashing cable :P 2011-06-07 18:21 wpwrak, maybe if you want to play nethack or text adventures 2011-06-07 18:21 sking->skin 2011-06-07 18:22 tuxbrain, the problem is you have to order two wpans to have any use of them, so the price raises twofold ;P 2011-06-07 18:23 tuxbrain: any estimate of how much the vat and shipping will add? 2011-06-07 18:25 zear , don't look at the money look at the peeled fingers after unpanelize, edge smothing and flashing  hundreds of this beaties just with the joy of hardware freedom lovers in mind :P 2011-06-07 18:25 :D 2011-06-07 18:26 whitequark: where do you live? 2011-06-07 18:26 tuxbrain: Russia 2011-06-07 18:27 tuxbrain, my whole interest in wpan limits to the concept of sticking one into a dingoo and a second into a nanonote, and play some duke3d deathmatch ;) 2011-06-07 18:29 zear: to two atben then. well, EUR 50 for the pair. that's not too bad. you'd pay more for a single WLAN card ;) 2011-06-07 18:29 whitequark: ufffffff.... I have bad experiece with rusia lately, I have to review all the shiping there looking for better option than I have.... 2011-06-07 18:29 an sdio one - yes 2011-06-07 18:30 wpwrak, though 50 EUR is pretty much a price of a new dingoo, so.. ;P 2011-06-07 18:31 on the other hand, having something like atben would be a great opportunity to learn about networking protocols and stuff like that 2011-06-07 18:31 zear: if you can finance the production of as many atben cards as dingoos were made, the prices would come down quite a bit, too ;-) it's unfortunately all about volume in this business ... 2011-06-07 18:31 wpwrak, yeah, i'm not doubting that :P 2011-06-07 18:31 yeah :( 2011-06-07 18:31 zear: yeah ! no black box :) 2011-06-07 18:32 e.g., at EUR 25 for an atben, tuxbrain should have a seriously fat margin. but, given the low volume, one-time costs and higher per-unit costs due to low volume eat all that 2011-06-07 18:33 that's the problem with small companies. On one hand, your price is dependent on your batch order, on the other hand though, smaller bath == bigger price == smaller public interest in buying your stuff 2011-06-07 18:34 tuxbrain: dealextreme had no problem delivering its stuff 2011-06-07 18:34 maybe you can use the same methods 2011-06-07 18:34 postal mail is nice 2011-06-07 18:35 i used ro bring stuff from usa, 2011-06-07 18:35 same methof used by dealextreme to my country too 2011-06-07 18:35 kristianpaul: where are you from? 2011-06-07 18:36 whitequark: colombia 2011-06-07 18:37 kristianpaul, whitequark my experiece from other people I have talked about is : USA->South america OK, China->Rusia Ok, EU->USA OK, EU->Southamerica problems, EU->Rusia problems 2011-06-07 18:38 Fedex seems to have a good ratio of avoiding such problems, also DHL seems too, UPS is a totally dissaster, and TNT is like a rolling a dice 2011-06-07 18:38 wow 50eur are just 130.000 cop, thats not that bad :-) 2011-06-07 18:38 and ca. 2000 rur 2011-06-07 18:38 like 2/3th of a Ben... 2011-06-07 18:39 zear: yeah, it's a vicious circle. kinda like the "poverty tax". if you're poor, you can't buy efficiently, ending up paying more than richer buyers. 2011-06-07 18:39 yea 2011-06-07 18:39 oh i agree with that whitequark 2011-06-07 18:39 wpwrak* 2011-06-07 18:41 tuxbrain: i had my share of troubles with DHL. fedex are the best. they would still have some room for improvement, but all the others are worse. 2011-06-07 18:42 so decide fedex for the win on those trouble customs barriers , 2011-06-07 18:43 wpwrak, with enough cool applications of it and drivers for different systems/architectures, plus a list of devices confirmed to work with it, providing it gets a good advertising (for example videos showing how two systems can play games together), i think wpan has a great chance of winning lots of customers 2011-06-07 18:44 fidopan ;) 2011-06-07 18:44 tuxbrain: regular mail can often also be an option. it's usually very inefficient, but it's generally aimed as "common people", so they may be more lenient on customs restrictions. 2011-06-07 18:45 kristianpaul: ;-)) 2011-06-07 18:48 wpwrak: meanwhile your not live in spain this can apply, I tryied once to oferr it as an option, but you see now any vestige on the tuxbrain website about it? so well you can deduce how it works, until I have at least tree guys(or girls)  working exclusively at shippings that can handle the headaches for me, I will not offer again Spanish postal as shipping option, clear enough? 2011-06-07 18:50 yes sr 2011-06-07 18:50 hi tuxbrain 2011-06-07 18:50 you had oe questions? 2011-06-07 18:50 tuxbrain: looks like you're quite annoyed by spanish postal... 2011-06-07 18:51 but then you disappeared 2011-06-07 18:51 that conclude tuxbrain offices should be moved out spain :-) 2011-06-07 18:52 kristianpaul: or conclude that tuxbrain has to burn out all postal offices and officers to restart from 0 with some efficiency in mind, not much just a bit 2011-06-07 18:53 that count too ;) 2011-06-07 18:56 kristianpaul: he should relocate to argentina for a while. i think he'd be quite happy with the spanish post after that ;-) 2011-06-07 18:57 well, here the bureaucracy actually isn't too bad. works better than i expected. but each trip to the post office means to stand something like 30-60 min in line. sit, if you're lucky and it's a saturday with bad weather. 2011-06-07 18:58 loves living in his small city 2011-06-07 19:00 GNUtoo: my apologizes fot my offline period, was needed, there are a lot of OE questions parked that will arise again once I retake that part, but righ now I have another priorities like atben/atusb and a lot of burocratic/marketing papers and comercial chitchat until the end of june, I have partialy solved my OE needs avoiding it and do "on device" compilation (on BIP-6000 latest version QT,PyQt takes about 7 days but at least work is done) to make 2011-06-07 19:00 able to work a OpenERP client (Koo) with this I have save my day , and I can develop this part of the businnes quite a lot, but of course this is not the optimal way to work , I "need" an stable way to generate full images form a "stable" and uptodate OE enviroment, but this can be postponed buy now for a couple of weeks 2011-06-07 19:01 tuxbrain, np 2011-06-07 19:01 tuxbrain, abuot pyqt, it's in oe now 2011-06-07 19:01 and works fine 2011-06-07 19:02 morphis and mickeyl are making a new program called aurora 2011-06-07 19:02 that is in QT+QML 2011-06-07 19:04 GNUtoo: nice to know :) 2011-06-07 19:05 and they use python for it 2011-06-07 19:30 oh, nice. component references can only be 9 characters. or mayhem results. 2011-06-07 19:33 er, make that 8 2011-06-07 19:45 [commit] Werner Almesberger: fpd2pdf/fpdoc: ignore items in .pos not defined in the schematics http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/0de3b96 2011-06-07 19:46 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: include the position of fiducials in atben-pos.csv http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9f9e77d 2011-06-07 19:52 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: include the position of fiducials in atusb-pos.csv (for fab) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/b410761 2011-06-07 20:00 he 2011-06-07 20:00 "And how many codes must a vendor lock down" 2011-06-07 20:00 before silicon turns to sand? 2011-06-07 20:00 from http://openbsd.org/lyrics.html#49 2011-06-07 20:22 whitequark: tuxbrain: saw you talking about atben/atusb and shipping 2011-06-07 20:23 maybe we could handle this like the UBB? i order a few and forward them using german mail (insured worldwide shipment should be about eur 6.50) 2011-06-07 20:23 the nice thing is: in case they are lost, then we get money back and tuxbrain can sell even more :) 2011-06-07 20:24 dvdk: that will be very good 2011-06-07 20:24 but they are quite costly. you're going to buy a not so small quantity, right? 2011-06-07 20:25 whitequark: maybe this time i will only buy as much as i can re-send.   maybe not more than 3-5? 2011-06-07 20:25 if i do another thing like ubb (ordering/reselling 50), pulster.de is going to be angry again :) 2011-06-07 20:27 whitequark: you might have to pay customs tax, though. 2011-06-07 20:28 ok, it's 3,45+2,05+1,50 2011-06-07 20:29 7 euro, insured for up to 100 euro 2011-06-07 20:29 pretty expensive 2011-06-07 20:29 plus about 25 cent for a proper shiping envelope 2011-06-07 20:30 whitequark: btw you also alsked about mplayer acceleration. 2011-06-07 20:30 whitequark: it's scaling + color conversion in hardware.  actual decoding up to Y+U+V image planes is done in software 2011-06-07 20:31 the best way to get video on the ben is to transcode it via ffmpeg2theora or use ffmpeg to generate webm/vp8 video at the correct resolution (down-scaled). 2011-06-07 20:33 dvdk: hm, same for 4750l 2011-06-07 20:33 too bad they're putting different ipus and codecs in each next chip 2011-06-07 20:34 dvdk: (pulster.de) how that's related to you? 2011-06-07 20:38 whitequark: (I was somewhat kidding), pulster.de commecrially sells UBBs, and he wasn't to happy last time i announced on the mailinglist that i could ship ubbs worldwide for 0.80 cent shipment cost 2011-06-07 20:39 s/cent/euro 2011-06-07 20:39 whitequark: (wrt video codecs): having the codec in software is better anyways, hackability-wise 2011-06-07 20:40 dvdk: sure, the only thing you should do in hardware is SIMD 2011-06-07 20:41 the good part is, SIMDs are somewhat compatible, at least upwards (ben 4720 -> my 4750l) 2011-06-07 20:41 the bad part, through, is absence of documentation and tools 2011-06-07 20:45 dvdk: (pulster) I just noticed they sell SD-WiFi cards, and apparently they work with Linux 2011-06-07 20:46 dvdk: do you know (just in the case) if there are cheaper variants? 89 euro is a lot 2011-06-07 20:47 wpan variant you mean? ;) 2011-06-07 20:47 just kidding.. 2011-06-07 20:48 The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-06072011-0240/ 2011-06-07 20:48 kristianpaul: the whole point of using wifi in the project I want to make is to reuse an existing access point 2011-06-07 20:48 dvdk: pulster's been giving you a hard time about ubb ? funny, he himself got rather late into the game ;-) 2011-06-07 20:49 kristianpaul: and, in that particular case, I don't have any USB ports for atusb on it, nor an open firmware 2011-06-07 20:50 sigh, will be nice haVh i could too 2011-06-07 20:51 The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-06072011-0240/ 2011-06-07 20:52 whitequark: sure,re-use is good, i miss that too 2011-06-07 20:52 but thinking about offline is good from time to time 2011-06-07 20:52 too 2011-06-07 20:53 hum, no usb ports, oh well, hard situation 2011-06-07 20:54 kristianpaul: there's no sense in usb ports when you only have stock firmware 2011-06-07 20:54 even with root 2011-06-07 20:54 talking about this, tp-link does some rather good (and cheap, for its features) routers 2011-06-07 20:55 with EHCI and perfectly functional OpenWRT installable 2011-06-07 20:58 i was about to point a fonera, i think are kinda cheap too, for those wifi to usb-host bridges. 2011-06-07 21:00 wpwrak: maybe pulster had to wait some time with UBB shipments for market to become desaturated :) 2011-06-07 21:00 kristianpaul: my one (gigabit router with draft-n wifi and 400mhz mips cpu) was about $100. don't know how fonera compares to that 2011-06-07 21:00 kristianpaul: fonera?  i have been reflashing fonera routers with openwrt backfire.  but no usb on them. 2011-06-07 21:01 my fonera was 13 eur on ebay :)  bought 3 of them. 2011-06-07 21:01 dvdk: are there any uses for UBB except plugging it to Ben for some weird task? 2011-06-07 21:02 whitequark: plugging it into other devices for weird tasks? :) 2011-06-07 21:02 dvdk: (fonera) that's cheapier than the cheapiest of most crappy d-links here :) 2011-06-07 21:03 whitequark: no uses I currently know of.  but i also gave a few ubb to people who don't own nanonotes, so maybe there is something to them. 2011-06-07 21:03 whitequark: yeah and with backfire, they _rule_ 2011-06-07 21:03 dvdk: I don't know any other devices with a SD slot accessible as GPIOs, would be interesting to hear about these 2011-06-07 21:03 whitequark: i'd guess almost all embedded systems can reporgram their sd card pins. 2011-06-07 21:05 you might look at the efika mx devices sold by tuxbrain.  they use a freescale imx chip, that directly feeds the (micro) SD slots.  I'd guess the imx can reuse the SD pins as GPIOs 2011-06-07 21:05 dvdk: ah yes, that may be applicable to some developer boards as well. apart from that, and maybe dingoo's and clones, I don't know any devices with SD card slot and a firmware which allows you to use pins as gpios 2011-06-07 21:06 whitequark: as long as you have linux an can put software on the devices, reprogramming should be simple.  not even a kernel module needed (user-space sw only) 2011-06-07 21:06 s/an/and 2011-06-07 21:07 dvdk: you'll need docs for chipset too 2011-06-07 21:08 userspace bitbanging without mmap is going to be slow as hell 2011-06-07 21:09 whitequark: you don't have a chipset, just a single chip (SOC) in most embedded devices nowadays.  and most of these are pretty well documented. 2011-06-07 21:13 dvdk: sure, a soc 2011-06-07 21:13 dvdk: and there must be enough space for UBB+cable (or whatever you connect). e.g., this excludes the openmoko phones :-( 2011-06-07 21:14 dvdk: http://wiki.fon.com/wiki/Fonera_2.0g 2011-06-07 21:16 whitequark: you could it use also to make an uSD->SD adapter 2011-06-07 21:17 wpwrak: would a flex something (dunno how is it called. that thing used to connect LCD displays to boards) work with openmoko? it's not very hard to solder those to plain board I think 2011-06-07 21:17 I mean, you can solder it to UBB and then route under the battery maybe 2011-06-07 21:18 not a very clean solution, through 2011-06-07 21:18 whitequark: yes, that may work. but with difficulty. the uSD adapter there is quite inaccessible. 2011-06-07 21:19 whitequark: the main problem would be that the FPC would come out near the PCB. then you'd have to bend it upwards in very little space. this puts mechanical strain on the FPC and it will in turn have a spring force working against the uSD card holder, possibly forcing it open. 2011-06-07 21:19 kristianpaul: i wonder whether fonera 2.0g can still be reflashed via ethernet using the bootloader bug. 2011-06-07 21:42 tuxbrain: if one were to generate a set of fab files now, they would include the fiducials in *-pos.csv :-) 2011-06-07 21:55 tuxbrain: did you see my suggestions for trying to make the spectrum scan work, even if the board isn't entirely healthy ?