2011-06-01 02:25 wolfspraul: ah, an idea for web improvements: a substitution that converts URLs like  http://src.qi-hw.com/([^/]*)/(.*)  into  http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/$1/source/tree/master/$2 2011-06-01 02:26 wolfspraul: that would keep links to source a bit more sane 2011-06-01 02:34 he, nice idea 2011-06-01 02:38 sounds like a good idea, but should "master" be in the fixed part? 2011-06-01 02:39 wpwrak: konqueror does that with user defined services  wp:wiki  wpe:england #:man man ##:info man 2011-06-01 02:39 I mostly use qi-kernel, I don't know if that's an exception or not regarding the use of branches 2011-06-01 02:39 DocScrutinizer: yeah, but posting browser-specific links would be a little mean, wouldn't it ? ;-) 2011-06-01 02:40 aaah you meant aliases on apache 2011-06-01 02:41 on maemo wiki I think there are a lot of thise 2011-06-01 02:41 mth: i think in most cases, "master" should work fine. well, it maybe make it a project-specific standard branch, defaulting to "master" :) 2011-06-01 02:42 why not /m/ instead /p/, for /m/aster? 2011-06-01 02:42 err nm 2011-06-01 02:44 wpwrak: project specific default branch is probably sufficient for 99% of the use cases 2011-06-01 02:44 srcm. for source/tree/master - src. for source/tree 2011-06-01 02:44 it might be harder to set up though than a hardcoded "master" 2011-06-01 02:47 so http://srcm.qi-hw.com/X/Y  == http://src.qi-hw.com/X/master/Y 2011-06-01 02:47 nb second form is perfectly allowable with your regex 2011-06-01 02:48 $2=master/Y 2011-06-01 02:48 might be more complex than it's worth 2011-06-01 02:50 what about http://src.qi-hw.com/([^/]*)/(.*) -> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/$1/source/tree/default/$2 -> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/$1/source/tree/master/$2 ? 2011-06-01 02:50 so implement the default branch as a redirect in PHP 2011-06-01 02:51 that might be easier in case the first step is done with mod_rewrite 2011-06-01 02:52 or some other configurable but not programmable module 2011-06-01 02:52 dunno. implementation detail ;-) 2011-06-01 02:54 wpwrak: (uptime breakdown) only 7h, but do you think it caused a hangover that shows after 12h of being awake? 2011-06-01 02:55 DocScrutinizer: I read in the news about Nokia's forecast warning etc. That sounds ugly. 2011-06-01 02:55 *shrug* 2011-06-01 02:55 -15% 2011-06-01 02:55 I'm wondering what's happening. Massive exodus everywhere? 2011-06-01 02:55 stock exchange penalty 2011-06-01 02:55 wolfspraul: nothing we didn't predict, did we ? :) 2011-06-01 02:55 hundreds of Nokia staff updating their linkedin profiles? 2011-06-01 02:56 distributors reallocating marketing resources to android? 2011-06-01 02:56 prolly 2011-06-01 02:56 employees checking which dates they need to reach to be entitled to certain benefits? 2011-06-01 02:57 people considering symbian as "dead". and nokia has neither iphone nor android to offer, so they don't buy nokia smartphones. 2011-06-01 02:57 and what does it mean to meego? probably there is so much chaos inside nokia now that nothing comprehensive can come out anywhere :-) 2011-06-01 02:57 I was thinking about meeting with some Nokia execs I could get in touch with here in Beijing, but pushing it away for months. 2011-06-01 02:58 too much chaos there I feel, but maybe eventually I should still try... 2011-06-01 02:58 what we are doing would just be another distraction for Nokia right now 2011-06-01 02:58 I think they first have to plain survive 2011-06-01 02:58 considering that MS make several dollars per android sold, i wonder if their "help" for nokia wasn't just a move to kill them more quickly, so that they don't disturb the profitable android ipr business 2011-06-01 02:59 wolfspraul: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2011-05-31.log.html#t2011-05-31T23:28:13 2011-06-01 03:00 >>I can't believe no-one's taken a pot shot at Elop yet<<   [<-- Nokian] 2011-06-01 03:02 the finns are generally nice and quiet people ... 2011-06-01 03:03 wpwrak: you're not the first one to think this 2011-06-01 03:04 seen a picture where balmer and elop shake hands, and somebody made elop say "mission accomplished" 2011-06-01 03:04 wpwrak: they're getting paid for Android phones by HTC, not for all Android phones (although they'll certainly try) 2011-06-01 03:04 not "bwahahaha" ? ;-) 2011-06-01 03:05 yes but what does it mean for meego? 2011-06-01 03:05 are there any meego people that want to branch out and try to reboot in a startup outside? 2011-06-01 03:05 mth: yup. was on heise recently. USD 5 per unit. even more from non-HTC, it seems. 2011-06-01 03:05 efectively nokia binned meego 2011-06-01 03:05 wolfspraul: presumably, there are 2011-06-01 03:06 or they are all clinging to their comfy nokia positions as long as possible... 2011-06-01 03:06 there's no make-a-living in meego handset UX 2011-06-01 03:07 DocScrutinizer: intel money ? 2011-06-01 03:08 Elop came from M$ and said "bend over, Nokia!", and Nokia asked "how far?" 2011-06-01 03:08 wpwrak: that's what I'm at atm 2011-06-01 03:09 they need a platform, before meego handset UX has *any* future 2011-06-01 03:09 DocScrutinizer: (how far) do you really think they even talked back to them ? :) 2011-06-01 03:10 grmbl. qi-hw list traffic for may at an all-time low. well, it can only get better ;-) 2011-06-01 03:10 maybe if Intel really wants to see an x86 phone they'll pay for that 2011-06-01 03:11 wpwrak: and Intel isn't directly involved or interested in meego HS-UX, as they don't sell phones 2011-06-01 03:12 if iOS and Android can be retrofitted from phone UI to phone + tablet UI, maybe MeeGo can go in the opposite direction? 2011-06-01 03:13 although going from less to more screen space is easier 2011-06-01 03:13 mth: that's my idea - Intel sponsoring development of a new open platform to build meego HSUX on it, then eventually they easily port to x86 and sell their crappy processors to phone manufs 2011-06-01 03:14 MeeGo is already running on both ARM and x86, isn't it? 2011-06-01 03:14 it's running on X86 tablets - the tablet UX 2011-06-01 03:15 it's not really running on ARM N900 2011-06-01 03:15 more like crawling? 2011-06-01 03:15 and they are running short of N900s ;-D 2011-06-01 03:15 and no more support from Nokia 2011-06-01 03:15 not really 2011-06-01 03:16 as in "we insist on keeping battery management entity a closed blob" 2011-06-01 03:16 ah 2011-06-01 03:17 and last thing rumour has is the promised "meego device" actually is yet another maemo device, though crippled to look like it was meego 2011-06-01 03:19 aiui they want to call it "meego harmattan "Hybrid Edition" - and there's been hassle as they weren't allowed to use meego(R) for that 2011-06-01 03:19 2011-06-01 03:20 I'm wondering if I should buy one before it's no longer available or avoid it since it won't ever be properly supported 2011-06-01 03:20 N900? 2011-06-01 03:21 yes, or the new device 2011-06-01 03:21 it's a great hw, and maemo works reasonably well on it 2011-06-01 03:21 the "new device" seems to be a capacitive touchscreen one, and quality of hw kbd is still questionable 2011-06-01 03:22 I earn my salary with iOS, but it's too closed to buy for myself and jailbreaking is too much hassle with updates 2011-06-01 03:22 has a certain coolness factor anyway, but I probably don't like it 2011-06-01 03:22 esp with this "meego" on it 2011-06-01 03:22 I'm used to capacitive screens from Apple, the only problem is fingerprints 2011-06-01 03:23 mth: wear gloves ! ;-) 2011-06-01 03:23 muhahaha 2011-06-01 03:23 it will have to be special gloves or it won't recognise the touches 2011-06-01 03:24 well, FCC disclose scheduled for 26th 2011-06-01 03:24 so we'll probably hear sth from nokia prior to that date 2011-06-01 03:25 a nokia tweet announced "something" for today 2011-06-01 03:25 DocScrutinizer: elop retires ? ;) 2011-06-01 03:26 I#m afraid he won't 2011-06-01 03:27 I'm not in a hurry, I've still got a monochrome phone that does very little except calling and SMS, but after a battery replacement it lasts a week on a charge 2011-06-01 03:27 why not ? the damage is pretty much done. you don't have to stay aboard to watch the ship sink. much nicer to do this from the beach of a nearby island ... 2011-06-01 03:27 mth: the batteries are what i'll miss most about nokia ... you could get them anywhere, and they're nicely compatible with so many other things ... 2011-06-01 03:28 agreed, but you might want to make sure there's no new life coming up e.g from the small but vivid maemo/meego department 2011-06-01 03:30 hell, Nokians even appear on community channels and dare to talk about Elop pot shot and gamble with testing limits of their NDA 2011-06-01 03:30 naw, even better to let them try to save the crashing misery and burn out in the process. they'd be much more dangerous with all the ballast. 2011-06-01 03:30 s/with/without/ 2011-06-01 03:30 starting to get involved into maemo(!) community seamless software update, the community driven successor of Nokia's maemo repository 2011-06-01 03:32 an unheard thin to happen with a Nokian kerneldev to date 2011-06-01 03:32 thing* 2011-06-01 03:34 and he agreed with me 100% about evil concept of polling in recent developments "upstream" 2011-06-01 03:35 I somewhat love that guy 2011-06-01 03:36 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2011-05-31.log.html#t2011-05-31T17:59:58 2011-06-01 04:07 i've just found myself using an SMD rework station to solder a LED with pins (to a pb-free board) 2011-06-01 04:07 that worked much better than trying to solder it with an iron. is that the method it should be really done? 2011-06-01 04:07 errr 2011-06-01 04:08 I never had a proper SMD rework station to play with ;-) 2011-06-01 04:09 kinda too expensive for a hobby tool used twice a year 2011-06-01 04:10 (my plans to establish a European Openmoko R&D and repair center nearby never panned out ;-D ) 2011-06-01 04:10 DocScrutinizer: maybe calling it an "SMD rework station" was too encouraging. it's just a chinese heat gun 2011-06-01 04:10 combined with a good iron 2011-06-01 04:10 that was maybe just above $100 2011-06-01 04:10 aaah 2011-06-01 04:11 I thought about a thing 100 times the price tag 2011-06-01 04:11 may 50 times 2011-06-01 04:11 wrong terms again :/ 2011-06-01 04:11 +be 2011-06-01 04:12 it's still very useful, through 2011-06-01 04:12 sure 2011-06-01 04:12 I got a pair of desoldering tweezers fro Taipei, friggin useful and was ~20$ 2011-06-01 04:13 desoldering tweezers, huh. can you show a link/photo? 2011-06-01 04:13 hmmm 2011-06-01 04:13 sounds weird to me 2011-06-01 04:14 ah yes, I've got it 2011-06-01 04:14 http://www.mercateo.com/p/139A-4683614/SMD_DESOLDERING_TWEEZERS_Typ_226.html?showSimplePage=NO&utm_source=product-search&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=Entl(f6)tpinzette#xytronics-smd-desoldering-tweezers-typ-226-xytronics 2011-06-01 04:14 the thingy to desolder all those 0402 SMD passive elements 2011-06-01 04:14 exactly 2011-06-01 04:14 mere fun 2011-06-01 04:15 I prefer more... compact way 2011-06-01 04:15 just touch them with a side of iron 2011-06-01 04:15 and use plain tweezers 2011-06-01 04:15 works like a charm 2011-06-01 04:15 works as long as you have "free air" 2011-06-01 04:15 hm, right 2011-06-01 04:16 otherwise you easily desolder half your device at one time 2011-06-01 04:17 well, I never actually worked with elements less than 0805, 'cause the only shop I know which sells them from one part has a price tag of $0.3 per one 2011-06-01 04:17 and that turns into a lot for even a small board 2011-06-01 04:19 hehe 2011-06-01 04:19 0805 are quite common and are easily bought in any quantities for nothing 2011-06-01 04:19 hello everyone 2011-06-01 04:19 vlad, hi 2011-06-01 04:19 I got a whole "book" of beads, and one of R, if you're interested ;-) 2011-06-01 04:19 kyak: looking on russian keyboard in news :) 2011-06-01 04:20 could anyone please help me with compiling a package? 2011-06-01 04:20 DocScrutinizer: I wonder if there is some chinese supplier which sells a package of 20x each of E14 series 2011-06-01 04:20 kyak: imho phonetic layout may be easier to use 2011-06-01 04:20 it fails with "mipsel-openwrt-linux-uclibc-ar: illegal option -- n" 2011-06-01 04:20 dunno, I guess the one I got is probably original chinese 2011-06-01 04:20 DocScrutinizer: I've seen those things for 0805 here 2011-06-01 04:20 lemme have a look 2011-06-01 04:23 NOVA comp-card-system 2011-06-01 04:23 whitequark: ^^^ 2011-06-01 04:26 hm, .de 2011-06-01 04:27 DocScrutinizer: that's just a box, right? (Yes, it's a very good box, through, but I've already found one...) 2011-06-01 04:27 CORC-04 2011-06-01 04:28 http://www.nova-elektronik.de/compcards/chip0603.php 2011-06-01 04:29 ah, so they also sell them pre-filled 2011-06-01 04:31 that's interesting, thanks 2011-06-01 04:41 whitequark: no idea if you can get anything like that over there, heard sending goods from western Europe is next to impossible 2011-06-01 04:42 possibly getting sth from China or dunno is easier, but you'll know better 2011-06-01 04:42 it's just unpredictable :) 2011-06-01 04:42 not impossible :) 2011-06-01 04:43 http://ebaytoday.ru has mail forwarding service in Germany 2011-06-01 04:43 so that will be easy, through quite expensive at all 2011-06-01 04:44 sending an N900 from Nokia to paul fertser turned out to be a mission impossible, finally ru customs asked for more monney to *proceed* the package than the whole device been worth 2011-06-01 04:44 hehe 2011-06-01 04:46 DocScrutinizer: iirc N900 costs more than 10000 RUR, and there is some stupid customs limit in that order 2011-06-01 04:46 it's always safer to use some relative 2011-06-01 04:46 after DHL returned the package in warshaw or somewhere as they noticed the addr as given in accordance to what helsinki DHL said it has to look like wasn't "deliverable" - ""no pkg delivery to private person, only to companies"" 2011-06-01 04:47 I've only used airmail to date, and it was fine, through _extremely_ slow 2011-06-01 04:47 whitequark: now that limit is raised 2011-06-01 04:47 Paul gave addr of his university or sth, and in Warshaw they noticed that's not good enough 2011-06-01 04:47 iirc, about $1000 2011-06-01 04:48 DocScrutinizer: DHL is courier delivery, they have other law :) 2011-06-01 04:48 because of that, ebaytoday even recommends lying in the customs declaration (not to mention they explicitly recommend _not_ to write that apple products are inside, because the package might get stolen otherwise) 2011-06-01 04:48 and stupid Nokia was unable to send any other way than DHL :-/ 2011-06-01 04:50 My suggestion to send the device to me and I'll forward it didn't fly for some odd reason 2011-06-01 04:51 I think finally Paul got a used devel device from another developer in Moskow, and the Nokia-sent N900 probably vanished at customs :-P 2011-06-01 04:52 darn, that has cost me some weeks of my life 2011-06-01 04:52 DocScrutinizer: imagine what does it cost for people here.. 2011-06-01 04:53 probably worse an experience than all the TI OMAP3430 datasheet studying ;-P 2011-06-01 04:53 but it resulted in N900 h-e-n usb-hostmode finally, one way or the other 2011-06-01 04:54 so maybe been worth it 2011-06-01 04:55 hm.. 2011-06-01 04:55 I definitely should provide some info on my site about jay-tech.de... 2011-06-01 04:55 have site jay-tech.ru 2011-06-01 04:55 some people with jay-tech's products are going to my site to ask some questions :) 2011-06-01 04:55 related to jay-7ech ? ;-) 2011-06-01 04:56 DocScrutinizer: yeah :) 2011-06-01 04:56 my nickname in RusNet is Jay w/o 7 :) 2011-06-01 04:56 so that's my tech ;) 2011-06-01 04:56 what's about that site? 2011-06-01 04:57 IT for SOHO business 2011-06-01 04:57 consulting/solutions/etc 2011-06-01 04:58 mhm 2011-06-01 04:58 sounds strangely familiar 2011-06-01 05:00 I couldn't have run into jay-tech.de incidentally 2011-06-01 05:00 jay-tech.de producing some devices like cameras and netbooks 2011-06-01 05:01 I've two calls one time about netbook problems :) 2011-06-01 05:01 though I think I've seen products like cameras labeled jay-tech 2011-06-01 05:03 jay-tech's production is very popular because of germany duty-free :) 2011-06-01 05:03 they are cheap there 2011-06-01 05:03 yeah, dirt cheap 2011-06-01 05:04 but after all they have no support out of germany 2011-06-01 05:04 that's what I think I recall about jay-tech products 2011-06-01 05:04 cheap silver plastic 2011-06-01 05:06 "video camera" with 128MB storage, things like this 2011-06-01 05:07 the stuff the advertise at homeshopping TV channels, at 3'o in the night 2011-06-01 05:08 :) 2011-06-01 05:08 has just got to fix USB-SATA enclosure bought in Britain: a pad for the SATA connector was missing completely 2011-06-01 05:08 and there ever was a Q.C.Passed label 2011-06-01 05:09 LL 2011-06-01 05:09 LOL 2011-06-01 05:09 needs to vacuum his kbd :-S 2011-06-01 05:10 ah yes, they've "fixed" it 2011-06-01 05:10 with a thing I overlooked as a solder bridge 2011-06-01 05:14 a week ago I've seen a chinese hard drive enclosure. they've put in a small package with four screws, and even a small screwdriver 2011-06-01 05:14 now the fun part: the case was made in a way which completely prevented access to the mounting holes 2011-06-01 05:15 i.e. it was composed of two parts glued together nicely, one in another, and the inner one had the holes. 2011-06-01 05:28 Jay7: heh, in fact, this (cyrillic layout) has been implemented months ago :) I just made a nice picture of keyboard in recent days 2011-06-01 05:29 Jay7: and yeah, i've been thinking about phonetic layout for quite some time now, just didn't lay my hands on it yet :) 2011-06-01 05:29 phonetic layout or engraving? :) 2011-06-01 05:29 kyak: I mean layout 2011-06-01 05:30 i mean, this is what i'm thinkinh 2011-06-01 05:30 then you may live w/o engraving :) 2011-06-01 05:30 I have some xmodmap's for zaurus 2011-06-01 05:30 with phonetic layout 2011-06-01 05:32 a proposal from someone who already using phonetic layout would be helpful. I mean, where exactly to put 7 (33-26) cyrillic letters. 2011-06-01 05:32 a picture or keymap 2011-06-01 05:41 kyak: I'll look 2011-06-01 06:19 could someone help me with this? 2011-06-01 06:19 http://pastie.org/2001999 2011-06-01 06:21 obviously a problem in Install section of your Makefile 2011-06-01 06:22 kyak: PM 2011-06-01 08:54 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: crashmail: CrashMail II is basically http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/db4f174 2011-06-01 09:15 DocScrutinizer: hmm, i suck at electromagnetism. if I run a probe wire for a few cm in parallel to one wire of a mains cable (220 Vac, let's say Iac = 1 A), distance limited by isolation, so maybe 2 mm center to center, will i be able to pick up any perceptible energy that way ? 2011-06-01 09:27 wpwrak: once I've played with my scope and it probably picked up some voltage in range of millivolts in a similar case 2011-06-01 09:28 I'm not completely sure through, that might be caused by some other effect 2011-06-01 09:30 whitequark: that would be a few pA then, if it was that 2011-06-01 09:30 err no, even nA. luxury ! ;-) 2011-06-01 09:36 wpwrak: again, that sounds doubtfully for me. maybe I'm worrong. 2011-06-01 09:37 *wrong 2011-06-01 10:24 xMff: hi! Did you have any luck fighting that *-dev automagic in OpenWrt? 2011-06-01 10:25 kyak: not yet, got swamped with work related stuff 2011-06-01 10:27 i see, the summer started good :) 2011-06-01 10:27 well... sales and management demand crazy stuff 2011-06-01 10:28 the usual corporate insanity 2011-06-01 10:28 if my experience tells right, this is going to ramp down soon.. till the end of summer 2011-06-01 10:34 ;) 2011-06-01 11:03 "Remove the CPU microcode and see whether your BIOS will run at all." he :-) 2011-06-01 11:45 hey guys 2011-06-01 11:55 hey zear 2011-06-01 14:09 kristianpaul: que pasa con liure? 2011-06-01 15:54 wpwrak: you bet you will :-) 2011-06-01 15:56 wpwrak: e.g. it's pretty enough energy to make a LCD display operate 2011-06-01 15:56 could it be? 2011-06-01 15:57 DocScrutinizer: oh, wow. i didn't expect it to be nearly that strong. 2011-06-01 15:58 DocScrutinizer: do you know how (i.e., keywords for google ;) i could find some circuit (schematics) that does things with this sort of energy harvesting ? 2011-06-01 15:58 there are those voltprobe "screwdrivers" that have a LCD instead of a gas discharge lamp. You can follow AC wires in the wall with them 2011-06-01 15:59 of course each true wirefinder does the trick with a few transistors 2011-06-01 16:00 plus batery and piezobeeper/LED 2011-06-01 16:00 great. so they even work for wires where current goes both ways. is this still induction they use ? i thought the fields would roughly cancel each other out 2011-06-01 16:01 capacitive coupling 2011-06-01 16:02 those don't detect current, they detect voltage 2011-06-01 16:02 current of some A will detectable as well, but not with a single ended wire 2011-06-01 16:03 asymmetrics 2011-06-01 16:04 it's not exactly twisted-pair 2011-06-01 16:06 yeah, i was thinking of inductive coupling 2011-06-01 16:13 inductive works for all asymmetric detectors, i.e. it won't help to wind a wire around the cable but you may place a coil *beneath* the cable 2011-06-01 16:13 1000BT must not run in parallel to AC wires 2011-06-01 16:14 ;-) 2011-06-01 16:37 hello everyone :P 2011-06-01 16:49 The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-05312011-0348/ 2011-06-01 17:00 wpwrak: if you'd elaborate after what you are exactly, I'd probably be able to help more specifically 2011-06-01 17:06 wpwrak: if you have access to a single wire, you quite usually use a coil wound on a toroid that can get opened to grip around the wire to test 2011-06-01 17:07 commonly known as "Zangen-Amperemeter" 2011-06-01 17:08 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zangenamperemeter 2011-06-01 17:10 NB the toroid can be of any size, shape, and a variety of ferromagnetic materials 2011-06-01 17:17 OTOH there MUST NOT be any cables or even pipes in parallel to lighting conductor wires. And - as mentioned above - ethernet cabling mustn't run in parallel to power cables with less than 20cm distance 2011-06-01 17:18 inductive coupling is a reality ;-) 2011-06-01 17:22 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zangenamperemeter#Sonderausf.C3.BChrung_f.C3.BCr_mehradrige_Leitungen  ;-D 2011-06-01 17:22 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromsensor 2011-06-01 17:23 http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Platinen-stromsensor.svg&filetimestamp=20081113205542 2011-06-01 17:26 cool (didn't know yet): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromsensor#Nutzung_des_Faraday-Effektes 2011-06-01 17:49 there's some discussion of pulseaudio on the mailing list 2011-06-01 17:51 was someone able to start it on ben? 2011-06-01 18:54 lol, PA 2011-06-01 18:54 pukeaudio 2011-06-01 18:55 we recently found out PA << ALSA and ever was, and even fans of PA had no better argument why we need this cruft at all, other than "I like it" 2011-06-01 18:56 we found not a *single* argument/feature that would suggest PA is a better solution for any particular problem 2011-06-01 18:57 ALSa can do literally all that PA claims to do, and usually ALSA is better on it 2011-06-01 18:59 only problem of ALSA being it's been a development sponsored and driven by SuSE, and obviously not may of the other esp debian-based distros bothered to properly integrate it so it'd work OOTB without user twiddling with its setting a bit 2011-06-01 19:01 DocScrutinizer: there's several things I love pulseaudio for: ability to change sound level _and_ audio sink for each application in a nice gui 2011-06-01 19:01 hm, okay, one thing. 2011-06-01 19:01 au contraire jacekowski pointed out PA forces him to do mixing in SW eating up CPU cycles for nothing, while his soundblaster audiocard is well capable of full hw mixing 2011-06-01 19:02 I consider it as an acceptable tradeoff for an ability of fine-tuning sound output 2011-06-01 19:03 and HW mixing is and even been supported by ALSA 2011-06-01 19:03 please don't get me going, just believe me there's an ALSA way to do that, since eternity 2011-06-01 19:03 for all the points you might want to rise 2011-06-01 19:04 there's softvol in ALSA 2011-06-01 19:06 I'd be really happy if someone wrote a handy tool for managing that. currently it only exists for PA, and that's why I use it 2011-06-01 19:06 there's been mixing in ALSA since 1999, though most isers thought ALSA can't do that at all 2011-06-01 19:06 uh? tool for using softvol??? 2011-06-01 19:06 mompls... 2011-06-01 19:07 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/1731 2011-06-01 19:07 can't get more handy, as it's fully ntegrated into what soundcard micer always been like 2011-06-01 19:07 mixer* 2011-06-01 19:08 so no, there's actually no tool for that, as you don't need any 2011-06-01 19:10 hm... 2011-06-01 19:11 well, okay, it is possible with alsa, fine. 2011-06-01 19:11 but I don't want to mess with scripts, I want just to move a slider and that's it 2011-06-01 19:11 why wasn't it integrated to alsamixer? 2011-06-01 19:12 and I'm away -as I'm not interested in another debate about it 2011-06-01 19:12 okay. 2011-06-01 19:12 that IS just a slider btw, the script is a run-once script to setup your system correctly 2011-06-01 19:13 so it should be run once per app? 2011-06-01 19:13 no, once per lifetime of your system 2011-06-01 19:14 then you just need to select correct audio device for your app ant that's it 2011-06-01 19:14 then it's really cool, thanks 2011-06-01 19:14 o/ 2011-06-01 19:14 no more pulseaudio :) 2011-06-01 19:14 I wonder why isn't it in default alsa packages 2011-06-01 19:34 see above, there's a lot missing in ALSA OOTB config, in other than SuSE distros. This softvol config though is my baby and not even found there 2011-06-01 19:35 it definitely should be included 2011-06-01 19:40 how to use: you add the pcm.vol { } definition to your alsa config in ~/.asoundrc or /etc/asound.conf , then instead of doing e.g >> aplay -D dolby5.1 mysong.wav << you simply do >> aplay -D vol:songs,dolby5.1 <<  and ALSA will create a slider "songs" showing up in all mixers, for your convenience 2011-06-01 19:41 and what if I want e.g. to use Chromium this way? 2011-06-01 19:41 or pidgin or 2011-06-01 19:41 err missed the mysong.wav parameter in second cmd 2011-06-01 19:42 if it's a sane app it has a way to configure the audio device 2011-06-01 19:42 you simply change the audio device as described above 2011-06-01 19:42 sadly, most apps aren't 2011-06-01 19:42 maybe there is an environment var or such 2011-06-01 19:42 like ALSA_DEFAULT_DEVICE 2011-06-01 19:43 then you need to override the audiodevice that the app is using, generally "default" 2011-06-01 19:46 replace pcm.vol {  by pcm.!deafult {  , and instead of >>default "jOERG" << you use sth like >>default $getenv {fsckupaudioapp} << [you need to fix this, it's definitely syntactically incorrect] - then start the app via >> fsckdupaudioapp=MySliderName MyFsckdupAppBinary<< and fine you are 2011-06-01 19:47 impressive. I never knew that alsa configs are so powerful 2011-06-01 19:49 okay, I've ran your script (without twinkle stuff at bottom), then did "sox bsg_the_music.mp3 -t alsa vol:songs", and it fails with "sox FAIL formats: can't open output file `vol:songs': snd_pcm_hw_params_any error: Invalid argument" 2011-06-01 19:49 what should I also replace in generated .asoundrc? 2011-06-01 19:51 (I've just added "card 0;" line) 2011-06-01 19:51 or - way simpler:  pcm.!default { slave $getenv FUrealAdio}  and start the app with >> FUrealAudio=vol:MySliderName,default MyApp << 2011-06-01 19:53 sorry I'm in a bit of a pinch, came back as I've forgotten my phone ;-D, and would like to help you later, if you just pastebin your ~/.asoundrc and terminal session c&p 2011-06-01 19:53 also a aplay -L and aplay -l 2011-06-01 19:53 bbl 2011-06-01 19:53 o/ 2011-06-01 19:57 DocScrutinizer: http://pastie.org/2005092 2011-06-01 20:47 may I ask why do you use uclibc and not eglibc? the latter is not significantly fatter (maybe ~200k bigger), but you'll get much more compatible libc 2011-06-01 21:13 whitequark: aplay -vv -D vol:songs -f s16_le http://paste.debian.net/118627/ 2011-06-01 23:46 "à la mode" computing is depressing 2011-06-01 23:47 Smartphones, social websites, cloud computing, I really can't get used or like all of theses things. Is it wrong or what ? 2011-06-01 23:49 people are different I guess 2011-06-01 23:50 Oh, and I forgot "moder desktops" 2011-06-01 23:50 (understand "gnome 3" 2011-06-01 23:50 some like to hang out in boring jobs, kill downtime during office hours clicking on facebook etc, play computer games once they finally get home at night, etc. 2011-06-01 23:50 modern* 2011-06-01 23:50 but not all do :-) 2011-06-01 23:50 Hehe 2011-06-01 23:51 I'm not sad about all of this but I'm seriously curious about all of this 2011-06-01 23:51 yeah but I think it's because we value things differently 2011-06-01 23:51 you don't even need to start with religions to realize that 2011-06-01 23:51 Things are changing so fast. When I was a kid, my comrades at school were picking on me for liking computers... now if you don't have the latest smartphone you're a looser. 2011-06-01 23:52 some people happily spend 20 years of their life paying off expensive real estate in the expensive metropolitan area they live in 2011-06-01 23:52 wolfspraul, you described it perfectly. I'm too picky when it comes to computers. 2011-06-01 23:52 others move to the mid-west and buy more property for 10% of the price :-) 2011-06-01 23:52 Yeah I see 2011-06-01 23:52 (mid-west as a US concept, but the same is true all over the world) 2011-06-01 23:53 and the ones hanging out on their ranch are scratching their heads over what the ones in downtown whatever are doing, and vice-versa 2011-06-01 23:54 who says that you are a looser without the latest smartphone? 2011-06-01 23:54 wolfspraul, noone is saying this to me don't worry ;) 2011-06-01 23:55 not worrying 2011-06-01 23:55 maybe you think too much 2011-06-01 23:55 :-) 2011-06-01 23:55 maybe actually not many people would say somthing like that 2011-06-01 23:55 they can try with me, I will smile and take another sip of my coffee 2011-06-01 23:55 But it's in the mind of the people around me. Like, buying a tablet because you have to... but still no one knows what the hell you can do with it. 2011-06-01 23:55 I think if you walk around with an ipad now that's pretty embarassing 2011-06-01 23:56 (I still don't know what I would do with a tablet too) 2011-06-01 23:56 Haha 2011-06-01 23:56 it's similar to a (real) Louis Vuitton bag 2011-06-01 23:56 It's just the size but I've seen people doing so 2011-06-01 23:56 so you just put the ipad inside (let it peek out a little) to complete the 'look' 2011-06-01 23:56 seriously that's all 2011-06-01 23:56 the bag is 1000 USD, why shouldn't the stylish acessory that peeks out a little be 500 USD as well 2011-06-01 23:57 fine by me 2011-06-01 23:57 haha 2011-06-01 23:57 seriously 2011-06-01 23:57 hookers also love them 2011-06-01 23:57 I'm not saying all of this is good wolfspraul neither that I want to do like all of theses people. 2011-06-01 23:57 I guess you can ask for a higher price because you come across as a more high-class hooker if you have an ipad at starbucks, rather than a pesky smartphone 2011-06-01 23:58 then I see a lot of regular folks with ipads on subway and bus commutes 2011-06-01 23:58 I will watch how long they do that, looks quite tiring to me 2011-06-01 23:58 my estimate is: 6 months 2011-06-01 23:58 but why not? 2011-06-01 23:59 I do nothing, I just enjoy the ride and look out the window. 2011-06-01 23:59 or in the subway I guess look at other people, hehe :-) 2011-06-01 23:59 :)