2011-05-30 01:30 <kristianpaul> woakas: do you think is proper to "bomb" mico32 processor with  512K interrupts per second?
2011-05-30 01:30 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: ^
2011-05-30 01:30 <kristianpaul> arggh, i'll disable this autothing..
2011-05-30 01:33 <kristianpaul> i implemented the method you suguested loong time ago,
2011-05-30 01:34 <kristianpaul> a circular buffer and a pointer that show me the current writing address
2011-05-30 01:34 <kristianpaul> overflow is not managed..
2011-05-30 01:38 <kristianpaul> buffer is just 2048 x 32bits
2011-05-30 01:41 <kristianpaul> word
2011-05-30 01:42 <kristianpaul> sige receiver sampling rate is 2.048~ MSPS, but i'm writing to buffer every 4 samples so i can be more efficiente with data bus wide
2011-05-30 01:43 <kristianpaul> but i noticed a posible problem, i was reading/polling from this buffer without feedback and noticed i was reading same data more than 20 times..
2011-05-30 01:44 <kristianpaul> hmm i need do some drawing here, minute
2011-05-30 01:47 <kristianpaul> i'm mising something..
2011-05-30 01:54 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote: fix setfont path http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/6087e23
2011-05-30 02:15 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (512 kInterrupts/s) you can probably bombard it - it just won't do very much ;-)
2011-05-30 02:17 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: i think you either need some data reduction in the path, DMA, or just make a loop that polls. even polling for "data ready" may be too slow, but you could probably add a "data not ready" signal that just stalls the core.
2011-05-30 02:18 <kristianpaul> yeah i was thinking add that "data not ready" signal
2011-05-30 02:19 <kristianpaul> and resume sampling signal
2011-05-30 02:19 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: you could get an estimate for how fast you can go by writing a loop that just reads some peripheral register a number of times.
2011-05-30 02:20 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: e.g., uint8_t buf[1000000]; for (i = 0; i != 100; i++) for (j = 0; j != sizeof(buf); j++) buf[j] = REGISTER;
2011-05-30 02:20 <wpwrak> then time how long it takes
2011-05-30 02:21 <kristianpaul> i thik time command in rtems is kinda no what is in linux..
2011-05-30 02:21 <kristianpaul> how i'm going to measire time..
2011-05-30 02:21 <kristianpaul> i dont have rtc..
2011-05-30 02:21 <wpwrak> do you have a watch ?
2011-05-30 02:21 <kristianpaul> what kind of watch? ;)
2011-05-30 02:22 <wpwrak> one that shows seconds :)
2011-05-30 02:22 <kristianpaul> yes i do wear one
2011-05-30 02:23 <wpwrak> that loop should take 100 s if your max sample rate is 1 MSa/s, 10 s if it's 10 MSa/s, etc. and you can always crank up the end value for i to add more precision to your measurement :)
2011-05-30 02:23 <kristianpaul> okay
2011-05-30 02:25 <kristianpaul> ha, wait i do have a clock, the one from sige chip is 4Mhz after a clock div i need for writing buffer 
2011-05-30 02:25 <kristianpaul> okay i'll try wpwrak method
2011-05-30 02:29 <wpwrak> don't worry about the clock ;-) this is just to get an idea of how fast you can read a register. estimate that you'll need 2-3x the time for a loop of the type
2011-05-30 02:29 <wpwrak> for (i = 0; i != sizeof(buf); i++) { while (REG_BUSY); buf[i++] = REG_DATA; }
2011-05-30 02:30 <wpwrak> ah, and use -O9 ;-)
2011-05-30 02:30 <wpwrak> and make sure your register is declared volatile :)
2011-05-30 02:31 <wpwrak> gcc may still optimize away the store, but that's okay for now. we're just after an estimate.
2011-05-30 02:42 <kristianpaul> [register] volatile unsigned int *count_addr = (volatile unsigned int *)0xe0011004;
2011-05-30 02:42 <kristianpaul> yes
2011-05-30 02:43 <kristianpaul> the first loop with the buf[1000000]; took less than a second..
2011-05-30 02:45 <wpwrak> how many outer loops ? (i)
2011-05-30 02:46 <kristianpaul> 100
2011-05-30 02:47 <wpwrak> wow. that's probably too good to be true.
2011-05-30 02:47 <wpwrak> that would mean that you can read a register and store away the value at > 100 MHz
2011-05-30 02:48 <wpwrak> well, it's not impossible. how long does it take for 1000 outer loops ?
2011-05-30 02:50 <kristianpaul> well, mm1 soc clock is 80Mhz.. mico32 is 6 stage pipeline.. and all soc uses same clock including memory remenber
2011-05-30 02:50 <kristianpaul> humm
2011-05-30 02:51 <kristianpaul> i think i missed something
2011-05-30 02:51 <kristianpaul> code is here just in case http://paste.debian.net/118354/
2011-05-30 02:52 <kristianpaul> and still less than a second :/..
2011-05-30 02:52 <wpwrak> s/count_addr/*count_addr/
2011-05-30 02:52 <kristianpaul> ahh
2011-05-30 02:53 <kristianpaul> sorry
2011-05-30 02:53 <wpwrak> otherwise if becomes a fancy memset ;-)
2011-05-30 02:53 <wpwrak> did you compile with -Wall ? i think it should complain about this
2011-05-30 02:54 <kristianpaul> he yes, it did complain
2011-05-30 02:54 <wpwrak> hehe :)
2011-05-30 03:01 <kristianpaul> 45.51 seconds for i = 100
2011-05-30 03:02 <wpwrak> 2 MSa/s. that's with -O9 ?
2011-05-30 03:03 <kristianpaul> yes -09
2011-05-30 03:03 <wpwrak> lemme see how long this takes on the ben ...
2011-05-30 03:04 <kristianpaul> :-D
2011-05-30 03:05 <kristianpaul> 45.44 seconds for second test, same i value  and stop watch
2011-05-30 03:07 <wpwrak> about 11 seconds on the ben. 4x as fast.
2011-05-30 03:07 <wpwrak> lekernel should be ashamed ;-)
2011-05-30 03:07 <kristianpaul> lol
2011-05-30 03:08 <kristianpaul> you cant compare, the clock is 4.2 times less
2011-05-30 03:08 <kristianpaul> asuming ben's clock at 336Mhz
2011-05-30 03:08 <wpwrak> yes. so it's about the same clock rate : sample rate ratio. you'd think he'd be more efficient :)
2011-05-30 03:09 <wpwrak> could of course be gcc making the difference. you'd have to examine the assembler code for this.
2011-05-30 03:10 <kristianpaul> well, not today, but benchmarks between nanonote and mm1 soc are good topic :-)
2011-05-30 03:10 <wpwrak> anyway, 2 MSa/s when polling registers may be barely enough for your purposes. at 512 kSa/s, that's how large a word ? 8 bits ?
2011-05-30 03:11 <kristianpaul> first ubb vga, later milkdrop on naonote ;)
2011-05-30 03:11 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: no every word is 32 bits :D
2011-05-30 03:12 <kristianpaul> i forgot tell i fxied buf to uint32_t 
2011-05-30 03:13 <wpwrak> ah, so the 2 MSa/s is with uint32_t ? trying the ben ...
2011-05-30 03:13 <kristianpaul> yes
2011-05-30 03:13 <kristianpaul> he, one last chance !!
2011-05-30 03:14 <wpwrak> about 44 s. nice !
2011-05-30 03:15 <kristianpaul> :D
2011-05-30 03:20 <kristianpaul> still not fair as one run rtems and other linux.. but lets forgot that last one
2011-05-30 03:21 <wpwrak> oh, the OS should have nearly zero influence on this test
2011-05-30 03:22 <kristianpaul> ah, ok
2011-05-30 03:22 <kristianpaul> good then :-)
2011-05-30 03:30 <vladkorotnev> hello everyone
2011-05-30 03:30 <vladkorotnev> I've got a strange problem with openWRT
2011-05-30 03:31 <vladkorotnev> http://pastie.org/private/prf9obczupd2lksfd9lo2q
2011-05-30 03:31 <vladkorotnev> weird o_0
2011-05-30 03:35 <wpwrak> vladkorotnev: maybe miscompiled ? e.g., for a different architecture ?
2011-05-30 03:35 <vladkorotnev> no, it is OpenWRT, mips binary
2011-05-30 03:35 <wpwrak> what does ls -l ge say ?
2011-05-30 03:36 <vladkorotnev>  http://pastie.org/private/kfjtqmyflhhjaj3urj71hq
2011-05-30 03:37 <wpwrak> okay. what does  ldd gedlnx  say then ?
2011-05-30 03:37 <wpwrak> (you may need to install ldd first)
2011-05-30 03:37 <vladkorotnev> root@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ldd gedlnx
2011-05-30 03:37 <vladkorotnev> -ash: gedlnx: not found
2011-05-30 03:37 <vladkorotnev> root@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ldd ge
2011-05-30 03:37 <vladkorotnev> libcrypt.so.0 => /lib/libcrypt.so.0 (0x2aabe000)
2011-05-30 03:37 <vladkorotnev> libm.so.0 => /lib/libm.so.0 (0x2aae2000)
2011-05-30 03:37 <vladkorotnev> libc.so.0 => /lib/libc.so.0 (0x2ab0b000)
2011-05-30 03:37 <vladkorotnev> ld-uClibc.so.0 => /lib/ld-uClibc.so.0 (0x2aaa8000)
2011-05-30 03:38 <wpwrak> that's weird. what do  file ge  and  file gedlnx  say ?
2011-05-30 03:39 <wpwrak> "ge" looks too small to be a proper executable. what does  hexdump -C ge  say ?
2011-05-30 03:39 <vladkorotnev> root@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# file ge
2011-05-30 03:39 <vladkorotnev> ge: POSIX shell script text executable
2011-05-30 03:39 <vladkorotnev> root@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# file gedlnx
2011-05-30 03:39 <vladkorotnev> gedlnx: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, MIPS, MIPS32 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
2011-05-30 03:39 <kristianpaul> he
2011-05-30 03:40 <wpwrak> ah, ldd things anything that's not a real executable uses libc and friends :)
2011-05-30 03:40 <wpwrak> gedlnx looks good so far ...
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> root@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ./hpt
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> -ash: ./hpt: not found
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> root@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ./ulc
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> -ash: ./ulc: not found
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> root@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ./setup_config.bash
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> -ash: ./setup_config.bash: not found
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> It doesn't find any files in that folder :P
2011-05-30 03:43 <wpwrak> strings gedlnx | sed 3q
2011-05-30 03:43 <wpwrak> are you sure they're for openwrt ? not for jlime ?
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> root@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# strings gedlnx | sed 3q
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> obuB
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> _init
2011-05-30 03:43 <vladkorotnev> yes OpenWRT
2011-05-30 03:44 <vladkorotnev> they were in an ipk
2011-05-30 03:44 <wpwrak> strings gedlnx | grep lib/ld
2011-05-30 03:45 <kristianpaul> vladkorotnev: where you get that ipk?
2011-05-30 03:45 <vladkorotnev> root@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# strings gedlnx | grep lib/ld
2011-05-30 03:45 <vladkorotnev>     /opt/lib/ld-uClibc.so.0
2011-05-30 03:45 <wpwrak> hah ! very suspicious :)
2011-05-30 03:46 <wpwrak> ls -l /opt/lib/ld-uClibc.so.0
2011-05-30 03:46 <vladkorotnev> http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/fidoip/index.php?title=Fidoip_on_Routers here
2011-05-30 03:46 <kristianpaul> :-)
2011-05-30 03:46 <vladkorotnev> FFFFFFUUUUUUU
2011-05-30 03:46 <vladkorotnev> thanks
2011-05-30 03:47 <wpwrak> probably best to rebuild from sources. you can work around the /opt easily enough, but there may be more surprises
2011-05-30 03:48 <vladkorotnev> YUPEE
2011-05-30 03:48 <vladkorotnev> Works
2011-05-30 03:48 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: debian: update changelog http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/b318731
2011-05-30 03:48 <vladkorotnev> http://cl.ly/150E221U3b2d3A2J390m
2011-05-30 03:50 <wpwrak> you're lucky :-)
2011-05-30 03:52 <vladkorotnev> brb
2011-05-30 03:59 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update ChangeLog http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/13eba91
2011-05-30 04:19 <kristianpaul> 3.0-rc1 = NOTHING :p
2011-05-30 04:19 <kristianpaul> gnome should learn from that ;)
2011-05-30 04:23 <DocScrutinizer> unrelated: really nice touchscreen (just in case I missed to mention it here) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc
2011-05-30 04:23 <DocScrutinizer> take your capacitive screens and ....
2011-05-30 04:24 <kristianpaul> wow, looks awesome
2011-05-30 04:25 <kristianpaul> (the part with the "pencil")
2011-05-30 04:26 <DocScrutinizer> now the *only* argument for c-ts is "glass"
2011-05-30 04:27 <DocScrutinizer> I don't need a blade-proof cocaine dispenser screen ;-)
2011-05-30 04:27 <kristianpaul> hum if you can correlate resistive measurements with some localizated vibrations on scree it could replace a kbd :-)
2011-05-30 04:29 <DocScrutinizer> there are projects to investigate this - along steam bubble buildup, electrofriction, piezo, ... duno what else
2011-05-30 04:33 <kristianpaul> Can we sample one for Ya? 
2011-05-30 04:33 <DocScrutinizer> (sorry, reconnect)
2011-05-30 04:34 <DocScrutinizer> kristianpaul: dunno - never tried
2011-05-30 04:36 <kristianpaul> well, also wondering if worth the effort for a 320x240 lcm as currently ben chips, may be a N900-like size fits better for multitouch :-)
2011-05-30 04:37 <wpwrak> nice. now wait 20 years before it becomes affordable ...
2011-05-30 04:37 <kristianpaul> :D
2011-05-30 04:38 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.stantum.com/en/solutions/supply
2011-05-30 04:38 <wpwrak> or vote to abolish patents in your jurisdiction TODAY ! ;-)
2011-05-30 04:39 <wpwrak> i wonder if a country could sign a treaty with china to mutually ignore each other's patents. considering that everything gets made in china anyway, ... ;-)
2011-05-30 04:41 <DocScrutinizer> I wonder how to get a stantum-technology touchpanel from manufacturer $RANDOM
2011-05-30 04:41 <kristianpaul> wich jurisdiction?, the norh american and his pool of laws been transfered/force in every *free?* trade agrements... :S
2011-05-30 04:42 <DocScrutinizer> stantum headquarters: France Bordeaux
2011-05-30 04:42 <DocScrutinizer> not too far from here
2011-05-30 04:43 <DocScrutinizer> seems those are always built to order
2011-05-30 04:43 <DocScrutinizer> so no really free market :-/
2011-05-30 04:45 <DocScrutinizer> Stantum Asia Pacific: Taipei
2011-05-30 04:46 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: well, one of the first ladies expressed the only suitable policy for FTAs quite properly: "just say no" :)
2011-05-30 04:46 <kristianpaul> I agree !
2011-05-30 04:47 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: (not really a free market) let me rephrase this for you: cool new technology doesn't exist - unless you make it yourself
2011-05-30 04:48 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: that's why all the "cats" here don't help much ...
2011-05-30 04:49 <DocScrutinizer> cats?
2011-05-30 04:49 <wpwrak> (cats) from "look what the cat's brought in" (dead bird, mouse, etc.)
2011-05-30 04:49 <DocScrutinizer> mioww
2011-05-30 04:50 <DocScrutinizer> is missing the picture. Don't worry, it's me, as usual
2011-05-30 04:51 <kristianpaul> out of memory.. ah yes i forgot just 128Mb.. ;-)
2011-05-30 04:51 <kristianpaul> i need that ramdisk..
2011-05-30 04:51 <kristianpaul> xiangfu:  !
2011-05-30 04:51 <kristianpaul> xiangfu: are you aware of the procedure for adding ramdisk to rtems?
2011-05-30 04:52 <wpwrak> (cats) people who find some "cool new product". then enthusiastically report it here, suggesting in one way or another "we" (i.e., someone else but them) should use it
2011-05-30 04:52 <kristianpaul> seems the current /ramdisk in flickernoise is just the name and not a separate filesystem
2011-05-30 04:52 <whitequark> what's wrong with free trade agreements?
2011-05-30 04:53 <wpwrak> whitequark: for one thing the bundle of IPR law requirements that usually come with them
2011-05-30 04:53 <kristianpaul> mianlly intellectual pooperty -_-
2011-05-30 04:53 <xiangfu> it is yaffs2. not separate
2011-05-30 04:54 <DocScrutinizer> lol
2011-05-30 04:54 <kristianpaul> xiangfu: yup, 
2011-05-30 04:55 <whitequark> wpwrak: I don't quite get how IPR are related to the FTA's here...
2011-05-30 04:56 <wpwrak> whitequark: FTAs are contracts containing many items. some of these items are often requirements to adapt your legal system with regard to IPR to the one of the peer
2011-05-30 04:57 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: I still would like to investigate further on my age old plan to analyze HF pulse response of a dead simple 2 plane r-ts
2011-05-30 04:57 <wpwrak> whitequark: these things tend to be one-sided, e.g., colombia being forced to implement US IPR laws
2011-05-30 04:57 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: "just do it" ;-)
2011-05-30 04:58 <whitequark> wpwrak: thanks, I understand now
2011-05-30 04:58 <DocScrutinizer> what's been the appropriate phrase I used last time? "Where's my patent lawyer?!"
2011-05-30 04:59 <DocScrutinizer> 1) measure wave speed of a r-ts
2011-05-30 04:59 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: no. "where do i post it ?" so that it solidly becomes prior art, and cannot be stolen from the public domain ;-)
2011-05-30 04:59 <DocScrutinizer> here, as you can see :-)
2011-05-30 05:00 <wpwrak> :)
2011-05-30 05:00 <wpwrak> so you want to find reflections, as the wave bounces off obstacles ?
2011-05-30 05:00 <DocScrutinizer> 2) record response on plane 2 to a pulse in the sub-microsecond range injected to plane one 
2011-05-30 05:01 <DocScrutinizer> 3) compare pattern of that response for no touchpoint, 1 touchpoint, multitouch
2011-05-30 05:02 <DocScrutinizer> 2a) record rsponse on all 4 wires of a standard touchscreen
2011-05-30 05:02 <wpwrak> hmm. sounds expensive. you need a very very fast ADC then.
2011-05-30 05:02 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
2011-05-30 05:03 <DocScrutinizer> modulo the expensive. Seems ultrafast ADCs are standard nowadays
2011-05-30 05:03 <DocScrutinizer> esp since you can do oversampling
2011-05-30 05:05 <DocScrutinizer> i.e. periodic signal & moving window
2011-05-30 05:06 <DocScrutinizer> so you only need a precise S&H, the ADC can be relatively slow
2011-05-30 05:07 <wpwrak> if you expect your wave to propagate with c = 200'000 km/s and you want a resolution of ~100 dpi (= ~4 dots/mm), you'd need a resolution of about one picosecond. oversample that ;-)
2011-05-30 05:07 <DocScrutinizer> C more like a tenth of that
2011-05-30 05:07 <DocScrutinizer> maybe less
2011-05-30 05:07 <wpwrak> 10 ps resolution then
2011-05-30 05:08 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not convinced
2011-05-30 05:09 <DocScrutinizer> you can have cat5 cabletesters that tell a bend to the cm
2011-05-30 05:09 <DocScrutinizer> and probably that's just where the display stops as more resolution is pointless
2011-05-30 05:09 <wpwrak> they may work with interference patterns
2011-05-30 05:10 <DocScrutinizer> you got laser speedmeter guns
2011-05-30 05:10 <DocScrutinizer> those are definitely working with c=c
2011-05-30 05:10 <wpwrak> send wave, mix with return wave, rectify and low-pass filter, see if they cancel each other out
2011-05-30 05:10 <DocScrutinizer> we can do that?
2011-05-30 05:11 <wpwrak> laser measurement is usually digital, not analog. they're still not cheap, but a multi-GHz counter is easier to build than a multi-GHz ADC
2011-05-30 05:11 <wpwrak> (interference) yup, you could do that
2011-05-30 05:12 <DocScrutinizer> first find parameters of your system, the think about how to build the electronics to meet those requirements
2011-05-30 05:13 <DocScrutinizer> that's a large plane close to another (capacitor) and it has a really high series R
2011-05-30 05:13 <DocScrutinizer> the wave speed might get extremely low
2011-05-30 05:14 <wpwrak> try it: put a scope probe on each end, then send a pulse. look at the difference. if there's none, get a faster scope ;-)
2011-05-30 05:14 <DocScrutinizer> I'm more concerned about any wave passing thru at all ;-)
2011-05-30 05:15 <DocScrutinizer> the ersatzschaltbild looks like a really good low pass filter
2011-05-30 05:16 <DocScrutinizer> infinite number of series Rs, with an infinite number of Cs to ground
2011-05-30 05:16 <DocScrutinizer> (of course also the value of both R and C going to infinite low on this approximation)
2011-05-30 05:17 <wpwrak> well, simulate it then. qucs is your friend. 2-3 should be a good approximation for "infinite" :-)
2011-05-30 05:17 <DocScrutinizer> more like 10 to 20
2011-05-30 05:18 <DocScrutinizer> easy calculation: get the resistance of a plane, divide by 10. Get the distance beteen planes and the area, calculate capacitance, device by ten. Just good enough
2011-05-30 05:20 <DocScrutinizer> now just use an amp to feed back the response fromplane 2 back to plane 1 ;-)
2011-05-30 05:20 <DocScrutinizer> voila: working touchophon
2011-05-30 05:21 <DocScrutinizer> a pity I got no lab here anymore
2011-05-30 05:23 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: you could do the simulation, see if the results look promising, then ask on the list if there's anyone with suitable equipment within travel range
2011-05-30 05:23 <DocScrutinizer> sounds like a plan
2011-05-30 05:24 <vladkorotnev> hello everyone 
2011-05-30 05:24 <DocScrutinizer> scrutinizes some of the disassembled frerunner touchpanels
2011-05-30 05:28 <DocScrutinizer> wonders whether to take useless nap or better get milk for a nice coffee
2011-05-30 05:28 <wpwrak> sleep refreshes the grey matter :)
2011-05-30 05:34 <DocScrutinizer> I'm serously doubting that
2011-05-30 05:35 <wpwrak> well, unless you're a zombie. then you have to eat that grey matter
2011-05-30 05:35 <DocScrutinizer> I guess a proper O2-tent would help better
2011-05-30 05:36 <DocScrutinizer> sleep is overrated
2011-05-30 05:37 <lunavorax_frizzl> DocScrutinizer, I wish it was
2011-05-30 05:37 <DocScrutinizer> plus I never feel better at waking up than I did when falling asleep
2011-05-30 05:38 <DocScrutinizer> briefly: I hate sleeping
2011-05-30 05:38 <wpwrak> "senile bettflucht" ? ;-)
2011-05-30 05:39 <DocScrutinizer> well, first get some supply, can sleep later anyway
2011-05-30 05:39 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: indeed
2011-05-30 05:43 <kristianpaul> pull-in match two prn satellites on view (acording gpredict) !! but no prn match... argh
2011-05-30 05:43 <kristianpaul> (http://home.earthlink.net/~cwkelley/receiver_operation.htm)
2011-05-30 05:43 <kristianpaul> gn8 !
2011-05-30 05:44 <kristianpaul> "This state is enabled for about 1500 ms, during the last 500 ms " hum...
2011-05-30 05:45 <wpwrak> so .. one step closer ?
2011-05-30 05:45 <kristianpaul> si
2011-05-30 05:45 <wpwrak> congratulations !!
2011-05-30 05:46 <kristianpaul> no yet, i need A FIX
2011-05-30 05:46 <kristianpaul> bye
2011-05-30 05:46 <wpwrak> rome wasn't built in a day ;-)
2011-05-30 05:52 <wolfspraul> match something, sounds great :-)
2011-05-30 05:53 <kristianpaul> no is not at all, threshold is tricky
2011-05-30 05:53 <kristianpaul> i can trust on that data until got a prn match,
2011-05-30 05:53 <DocScrutinizer> o/ wolfspraul 
2011-05-30 06:17 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: ChangeLog, fix typo http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/6d1f265
2011-05-30 06:55 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, Hi
2011-05-30 06:55 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, check this: c/src/lib/libbsp/lm32/milkymist/startup/linkcmds
2011-05-30 06:57 <xiangfu> kristianpaul, I guess we can just reduce the HeapSize, then we can get a big ramdisk :), needs make sure with Sebastien
2011-05-30 07:23 <whitequark> > < DocScrutinizer> sleep is overrated
2011-05-30 07:23 <whitequark> is adding that to his quotes
2011-05-30 07:24 <DocScrutinizer> and indeed it is, no?
2011-05-30 07:24 <whitequark> sure
2011-05-30 07:24 <whitequark> was watching BSG and House all the night
2011-05-30 07:25 <DocScrutinizer> missed TV for IRC. House day is tomorrow :-)
2011-05-30 07:35 <whitequark> not on TV, of course. BSG wasn't aired in Russia AFAIK, and I don't even have the TV box to see House
2011-05-30 07:38 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: 4th: remove BROKEN http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/0122bb0
2011-05-30 07:42 <qi-bot> [commit] David Kühling: new package: liballegro: a lightweight game and multimedia library http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3b7bed6
2011-05-30 08:03 <whitequark> I'm sure that someone online knows enough SDRAM black magic to answer a simple question: is it possible to stack two chips one on another if I only have one DCS?
2011-05-30 08:06 <whitequark> the chips I have are 4 banks x 4 MBit x 16, and the CPU is 4725B/4755L
2011-05-30 08:08 <xiangfu> whitequark, the jzboot have included in last xburst-tools. there is a warning when create that package. no manual page for jzboot 
2011-05-30 08:10 <whitequark> xiangfu: thanks for packaging, that's great for jzboot
2011-05-30 08:10 <whitequark> there's really no manual page, I should write one probably
2011-05-30 08:10 <whitequark> I never did that, through
2011-05-30 08:11 <xiangfu> :)
2011-05-30 08:12 <whitequark> anyone has a good tutorial? :)
2011-05-30 08:16 <xiangfu> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/xburst-tools/source/tree/master/usbboot/doc/usbboot.1
2011-05-30 08:16 <xiangfu> there is example. 
2011-05-30 08:16 <xiangfu> I almost forget how I create this file :(, needs one command to debug I remember. 
2011-05-30 08:17 <whitequark> oh... that looks quite perl'ish
2011-05-30 08:21 <DocScrutinizer> one CS per chip?
2011-05-30 08:23 <DocScrutinizer> should suffice, though I dunno how that will pan out nowadays with piggyback stacking storage, with all that narrow timing, and driver energy, and line ringing, and whatnot
2011-05-30 08:23 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: no, that's the problem. one CS at all
2011-05-30 08:23 <DocScrutinizer> last time I did that was like 20 years ago
2011-05-30 08:23 <DocScrutinizer> well, I gather you got a CS pin on each chip
2011-05-30 08:24 <whitequark> the 4725B technically has DCS1, but it is not attached to a pin
2011-05-30 08:24 <whitequark> so I only have one CS
2011-05-30 08:24 <DocScrutinizer> you'll obviously need a 2->4 or 4->16 decoder to demux some higher order addr bits
2011-05-30 08:26 <DocScrutinizer> you can even get away with undemuxed addr ranges, like 01xx_xxxx for bank one, and 10xx_xxxx for bank 2
2011-05-30 08:26 <whitequark> hmm.
2011-05-30 08:26 <DocScrutinizer> but you really need to take care then about your addr ranges you use in your programs
2011-05-30 08:28 <whitequark> look, the DS on the memory chip says: A0-A12 are used for row address, and A0-A8 are used for column address
2011-05-30 08:28 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
2011-05-30 08:28 <whitequark> all the address lines wired to the chip are A0-A12, through I can theoretically use A13-A15 by unsoldering the flash
2011-05-30 08:29 <DocScrutinizer> and you got no chip select? only a address strobe?
2011-05-30 08:29 <whitequark> but I think that if I'd use high order address bits to select chips, the EMC will be confused and e.g. don't refresh them correctly, wouldn't it?
2011-05-30 08:29 <whitequark> yeah, I only have one CS
2011-05-30 08:30 <whitequark> here's the schematic https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B8swSjZPphH0M2NhMDNhMDItY2M0OC00MjU0LWI2ZmMtNjE5NjIwYmM2MDhj&hl=ru&authkey=CMr5z4MN?attredirects=0
2011-05-30 08:31 <DocScrutinizer> whitequark: I can't answer these questions sufficiently correct, without having a look at the schematics of device and also the datasheets of chips
2011-05-30 08:31 <whitequark> (or, if you prefer: http://files.whitequark.org/t/Vogue_01_sch.pdf)
2011-05-30 08:31 <whitequark> here's the DS for SDRAM: http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/H/Y/B/3/HYB39S256160DT-7.shtml
2011-05-30 08:31 <whitequark> and you probably have the one for 4725B already
2011-05-30 08:35 <whitequark> we here have a near-infinite supply of free 32MB SDRAM chips, and 64MB ones cost around $20
2011-05-30 08:36 <whitequark> given that a few people hacking the device ever used heatgun and will probably fry anything at the first attempts, it's not a very good idea to buy these
2011-05-30 08:37 <whitequark> there are $1.5 ones, of course. but they're BGA.
2011-05-30 08:37 <DocScrutinizer> use gates to distribute RAS/CAS to the two RAM chips
2011-05-30 08:39 <whitequark> so (keeping in mind that no one has a logic analyzer capable of debugging the chip or even scope) there's no simple way
2011-05-30 08:40 <DocScrutinizer> refresh afaik is using only one of those, and can go to both chips. you need to latch a higher order adrr bit of the other one to decide which of your storage chips gets the complete cycle of RAS+CAS of the next real r/w-operation
2011-05-30 08:40 <DocScrutinizer> not really
2011-05-30 08:40 <DocScrutinizer> modulo I haven't looked at any datasheet yet
2011-05-30 08:41 <DocScrutinizer> finally featuring this out to the gory detail takes like one manday
2011-05-30 08:42 <whitequark> okay, I won't ask you to explore this further, it's just not worth the result
2011-05-30 08:42 <whitequark> I was only hoping there is simple answer
2011-05-30 08:42 <DocScrutinizer> you need to check a lot of things, starting at fan-out of storage datalines and cpu data and addr lines, fan-in of all lines. Timing. Logic of RAS/CAS sequence, refresh scheme
2011-05-30 08:44 <DocScrutinizer> if you say you *could* connect a 64 storage chip, then probably best approach is to first compare the 32 and 64 and exactly check out the difference in operation mode. Then start from there 'emulating' the 64 chip with 2 32 plus additional gear
2011-05-30 08:45 <DocScrutinizer> have a short look at the fan-in/out situation, and then just give it a try
2011-05-30 08:45 <whitequark> I don't even know how to attach all those gates to the board
2011-05-30 08:46 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
2011-05-30 08:46 <whitequark> so that they'll work at 120MHz
2011-05-30 08:46 <DocScrutinizer> I'm famous for my "hedgehog" electronics
2011-05-30 08:46 <whitequark> wait a sec, I'll show you how I did the SD card connection...
2011-05-30 08:47 <DocScrutinizer> (120MHz) yeah, toldya I'm not sure those hacks will pan out nowadays at all
2011-05-30 08:47 <whitequark> http://rghost.net/7947771 http://rghost.net/7947781 http://rghost.net/7947841 http://rghost.net/7947851 http://rghost.net/7947901
2011-05-30 08:49 <whitequark> now, watch my crappy soldering :)
2011-05-30 08:49 <DocScrutinizer> :)
2011-05-30 08:51 <whitequark> what's "hedgehog" electronics?
2011-05-30 08:53 <DocScrutinizer> it's for example a power supply for a z80 board (-12, +5, +12) built with discrete components like 2N3055 etc, completely without PCB, and about the form and size of a hedgehog, and also feeling like one
2011-05-30 08:54 <whitequark> oh. I can imagine that.
2011-05-30 08:54 <whitequark> I suppose that it was working. now that's impressive
2011-05-30 08:55 <DocScrutinizer> of course it worked, until somebody touched it and thus bend it to short some wires
2011-05-30 08:56 <DocScrutinizer> after each transport you had to "hairdress" it do remove all the shorts
2011-05-30 08:56 <whitequark> you should have embedded that in epoxy. like an insect in a piece of amber
2011-05-30 08:56 <DocScrutinizer> push a bit here, pull a bit there
2011-05-30 08:57 <DocScrutinizer> nice idea. That would've been ~2L though, and epoxy been rather expensive back when
2011-05-30 08:57 <whitequark> 2L!!
2011-05-30 08:57 <whitequark> that's quite a big hedgehog
2011-05-30 08:57 <DocScrutinizer> toldy, size of a hedgehog
2011-05-30 08:59 <DocScrutinizer> well, I would have to use some semi-geometric form of any available box, or cup, or whatever
2011-05-30 08:59 <DocScrutinizer> that adds to the volume needed, as a ball isn't easy to form in epoxy
2011-05-30 09:01 <whitequark> hmm. can't you just use, eh, a ball?
2011-05-30 09:02 <DocScrutinizer> btw I'm not sure this would've worked at all, as one undeniable benefit of this "design" been a good ventilation
2011-05-30 09:02 <whitequark> so that was also a hot hedgehog
2011-05-30 09:02 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
2011-05-30 09:02 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
2011-05-30 09:03 <DocScrutinizer> and placing the thing into a ball would make "dressing" unfeasible, so I end up with a nicely encapsulated hedgehog that has shorts and doesn't work
2011-05-30 09:08 <DocScrutinizer> well, as I spent a little fortune for this first computer of my life, and also spent several weeks to solder all of it and trace the 3 missed solderpoints and finally start the whole z80 thing up, I eventually made up my mind and considered the hedgehog way too dangerous if eventually it would short e.g between emitter and collector of one of the regulator transistors. So I rebuilt the whole thing on a proper lab PCB
2011-05-30 09:09 <whitequark> it's good when you have access to some lab
2011-05-30 09:09 <DocScrutinizer> nah, just a PCB with those zillions of holes in it
2011-05-30 09:10 <DocScrutinizer> they came with either dots or stripes, or completely w/o copper
2011-05-30 09:11 <DocScrutinizer> and had a hole raster of 0.1
2011-05-30 09:11 <DocScrutinizer> aka 2.54mm
2011-05-30 09:12 <DocScrutinizer> they didn't change for like the last 40 years
2011-05-30 09:12 <DocScrutinizer> the lab back when was my dad's cellar (he's also been EE)
2011-05-30 09:13 <whitequark> was that a two-side pcb?
2011-05-30 09:13 <whitequark> I'm still failing at these
2011-05-30 09:13 <DocScrutinizer> no
2011-05-30 09:13 <whitequark> ah yes. then I have the skills for that pcb :)
2011-05-30 09:16 <whitequark> how many years of experience in electronics do you have?
2011-05-30 09:16 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/527453/
2011-05-30 09:17 <DocScrutinizer> like 5 less than i'm old
2011-05-30 09:17 <whitequark> I should have started exploring that earlier :/
2011-05-30 09:19 <DocScrutinizer> when I was 8 I started reading my father's electronics magazines
2011-05-30 09:20 <DocScrutinizer> I started reading and drawing and building simple schematics some years earlier
2011-05-30 09:20 <whitequark> same here, but I was 12
2011-05-30 09:21 <DocScrutinizer> as my dad worked at SEL in semiconductor manuf for some time, we had lockers full of boxes with components
2011-05-30 09:23 <whitequark> what would you recommend to improve my skills? books maybe, etc.?
2011-05-30 09:23 <DocScrutinizer> when I was 12 I got some of the first TTL74xx chips Siemens produced in Germany (of course only those which failed QA, the others cost more than gold back when)
2011-05-30 09:25 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not sure I can give advice how to practice, as my approach surely wasn't the one you'd choose when you're an adult
2011-05-30 09:25 <whitequark> I'm still interested
2011-05-30 09:27 <DocScrutinizer> I think I learned most by reading electronics magazines, there's been "Elector" back when, which came with several schematics each month, and once a year they had a special issue with >>100 schematics - I've rad them all, and sometimes spotted bugs in them ;-)
2011-05-30 09:28 <whitequark> (first TTL chips) what year was that?
2011-05-30 09:29 <DocScrutinizer> finding the ones I could build with the components I got (maybe after modifying the schematics and values of components a bit to mach what was available) was also much fun and helped a lot to learn how to calculate those things
2011-05-30 09:30 <DocScrutinizer> (year) ~1973 iirc
2011-05-30 09:31 <DocScrutinizer> I think I always wondered if they've chosen the 74 part of the name because of the year
2011-05-30 10:08 <DocScrutinizer> maybe it's not been Siemens' first german chips, but some new fab nearby - can't remember exactly. Of course the 74 series existed quite a bit longer obviously
2011-05-30 10:13 <whitequark> it's good when you have a fab nearby
2011-05-30 10:14 <DocScrutinizer> I had an uncle "nearby" :-) - he worked at Siemens
2011-05-30 10:15 <whitequark> now, when there are almost no manufacturers alive here, it's very hard to buy materials like aluminium sheets (I'm trying to make some custom cases), or textolite (not the foiled one, I mean), or fluoroplastic in sane quantities
2011-05-30 10:15 <whitequark> when no one uses these, there are no scraps :)
2011-05-30 10:15 <DocScrutinizer> and I thought he's the friggin only true santa when he came and offered me this bag of chips
2011-05-30 10:15 <whitequark> that was truly a great gift
2011-05-30 10:18 <whitequark> I've just found a nearby company which offers a really good price for small quantities of laser cut materials
2011-05-30 10:18 <whitequark> like $1.5 for 1.5 meters of perimeter (bigger is cheaper)
2011-05-30 10:18 <whitequark> I hope this will finally make me able to do a simple, but good-looking case
2011-05-30 10:19 <DocScrutinizer> now that's cool
2011-05-30 10:19 <whitequark> yeah, I once thought that it only was possible in USA or Europe, everyone I found here wanted a minimal order of ~$300
2011-05-30 10:19 <DocScrutinizer> I guess complex shapes will quickly rise the pricetag
2011-05-30 10:20 <whitequark> why? I think they only compute the price by cutting machine time + preparation time
2011-05-30 10:21 <whitequark> isn't the actual shape indifferent for the machine?
2011-05-30 10:21 <DocScrutinizer> preparation time. how do you provide the shape data?
2011-05-30 10:21 <whitequark> dxf or solidworks
2011-05-30 10:21 <DocScrutinizer> aah k, then it shouldn't matter
2011-05-30 10:22 <whitequark> I didn't had experience with either of them
2011-05-30 10:22 <whitequark> can you recommend a good simple CAD to make a 2D shape?
2011-05-30 10:22 <DocScrutinizer> neither, only heard of it
2011-05-30 10:22 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: to the rescue! :-D
2011-05-30 10:24 <whitequark> also, there are some inherent problems with the design
2011-05-30 10:25 <whitequark> the thing I want to make is a WiFi-enabled clock. basically that's just my 4725 board with SDIO wifi card connected and in a good case
2011-05-30 10:26 <whitequark> the problem lies with the (hey, now I will mess up all the terms) fastening of the board on the case
2011-05-30 10:26 <whitequark> it should be in a shape of a triangular prism, lying on a rectangular side
2011-05-30 10:26 <whitequark> on the other rectangular side there will be a hole for the lcd
2011-05-30 10:27 <whitequark> and some for buttons
2011-05-30 10:28 <whitequark> I think that I may order the case itself in two parts: one would be two rectangular and two triangular sides welded together, and it will have two mounting tabs
2011-05-30 10:28 <whitequark> and the other will be a single rectangular part with mounting holes matching those tabs
2011-05-30 10:29 <whitequark> the problems are: 1) as you've seen, the board has no mounting holes (and anyway, I don't want to add any screws on the front panel at all)
2011-05-30 10:29 <whitequark> and 2) I'm not aware of a sane way to insert a protective plastic panel in front of LCD
2011-05-30 10:30 <whitequark> do you have any ideas?
2011-05-30 11:27 <vladkorotnev> hello everyone
2011-05-30 11:27 <vladkorotnev> is there a way to set OpenWRT encoding to KOI8-R?
2011-05-30 11:28 <whitequark> vladkorotnev: try export LANG=ru_RU.KOI8-R
2011-05-30 11:28 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: already tried this and fonts, didn't help
2011-05-30 11:29 <whitequark> vladkorotnev: well, why would you want that ancient stuff in first place?
2011-05-30 11:30 <vladkorotnev> I need to use an app that doesn't support UTF8
2011-05-30 11:31 <whitequark> which one? is that X or console?
2011-05-30 11:32 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: console
2011-05-30 11:35 <whitequark> so, you are trying to make it work correctly with ben's console on framebuffer, right?
2011-05-30 11:35 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: yup
2011-05-30 11:35 <vladkorotnev> luit doesn't help
2011-05-30 11:36 <whitequark> http://koi8.pp.ru/linux.html
2011-05-30 11:36 <whitequark> try this
2011-05-30 11:38 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: almost! blank chars instead of gibberish 
2011-05-30 11:38 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: (2D cad) many people like qcad. i hate it. so i use fped for really simple things. if fped can't do it, i write a script. (e.g, to generate toolpaths, which is something fped doesn't know how to do)
2011-05-30 11:40 <whitequark> wpwrak: fped is for footprints, right? and I need to make a 2d contour for laser cutting
2011-05-30 11:40 <whitequark> do you know anything on this field?
2011-05-30 11:41 <wpwrak> whitequark: make three layers: 1) bottom, with 2-4 holes for screws. 2) top, with 2-3 holes for screws, transparent. 3) frame, with 2-3 holes for screws and a bit opening in the middle the size of the PCB. layer 3 has to have the thickness of the pcb (plus some tolerance)
2011-05-30 11:42 <wpwrak> whitequark: then put L1 + L3, align them, put the PCB inside and glue it in (glue, silicone, tape, whatever), then put L2 on top and put in the screws
2011-05-30 11:43 <wpwrak> whitequark: fped is for footprints but can also do some basic geometry. not as much as qcad, but it does it conveniently and parametric. has no toolpath generation, though.
2011-05-30 11:43 <whitequark> wpwrak: thanks for a great idea, I'll think about it. there may be some problems with thickness of 3rd layer. through
2011-05-30 11:44 <whitequark> wpwrak: (fped) can it save DWG's?
2011-05-30 11:44 <wpwrak> whitequark: so when i need a toolpath, i write a perl script that prints X/Y coordinates. then i verify with gnuplot. WYSIWYG is for girls ;-)
2011-05-30 11:45 <wpwrak> whitequark: (L3) if you can't find or can't machine a thick enough sheet, use multiple thin ones.
2011-05-30 11:45 <whitequark> wpwrak: yeah, just got the same idea
2011-05-30 11:46 <wpwrak> (fped, DWG) no, just postscript, kicad, and its own format. you could probably use kicad to generate DXF from it, though.
2011-05-30 11:46 <DocScrutinizer> who's sourcing for Qi?
2011-05-30 11:47 <whitequark> wpwrak: just installed it. version 0.0 and the rich interface are promising :)
2011-05-30 11:48 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: the things sharism makes ? that would be mainly adam
2011-05-30 11:48 <DocScrutinizer> I dunno who's sharism
2011-05-30 11:49 <DocScrutinizer> just asking who's the best man to find out e.g about OMAP4
2011-05-30 11:49 <DocScrutinizer> when it comes to production, sourcability, etc
2011-05-30 11:50 <DocScrutinizer> always thought that's wolfgang
2011-05-30 11:51 <wpwrak> (sharism = the company that gets manufactured bens and manufactures mm1s (and sells both to customers and distributors))
2011-05-30 11:52 <DocScrutinizer> aaah, so who or what is Qi-HW then?
2011-05-30 11:52 <wpwrak> (omap4) hmm. wolfgang may some things about sourcing those chips. probably no details, though
2011-05-30 11:53 <wpwrak> qi-hw is the community effort of which sharism is a part
2011-05-30 11:53 <DocScrutinizer> sure, as we never talked to TI so far afaik
2011-05-30 11:53 <DocScrutinizer> thanks, now things get clearer
2011-05-30 11:53 <wpwrak> (talk to ti) yeah. as wolfgang describes it, you probably need a direct line to TI anyway, if you want a realistic chance to get the chip even out of reset ;-)
2011-05-30 11:54 <DocScrutinizer> lol
2011-05-30 11:54 <DocScrutinizer> I'll copy that to my best quotes
2011-05-30 11:55 <DocScrutinizer> for now it seems more like you need a direct line to dinno whom, God?, to get an OMAP4
2011-05-30 11:56 <DocScrutinizer> wonder where panda get theirs from
2011-05-30 11:56 <wpwrak> good luck with the sourcing then ;-)
2011-05-30 11:56 <DocScrutinizer> do we know anybody at beagle/panda?
2011-05-30 11:59 <wpwrak> maybe ping goldendelicious if they have any contacts ? or at least war stories to share :)
2011-05-30 11:59 <DocScrutinizer> well, for now I'm just collecting options and trying to tell apart the existing stuff from vaporware, so we can do some educated decision about the preferable architecture for meegophone
2011-05-30 12:00 <DocScrutinizer> I already have that on my todo list - thanks nevertheless
2011-05-30 12:00 <whitequark> so, are you doing an open phone?
2011-05-30 12:01 <DocScrutinizer> as long as this laterego guy doesn't come up with some names and stuff, the project itself hasn't left the vaporware status in my book ;-)
2011-05-30 12:01 <DocScrutinizer> whitequark: we're planning to do so, according to this guy
2011-05-30 12:01 <wpwrak> whitequark: i guess he's been plotting the defect rate vs. time of his N900 and got worried that it may disintegrate before apple and android are both dead :)
2011-05-30 12:02 <wpwrak> whitequark: well, with apple and samsung at other's throat, things may move a little faster on that front. i wouln't expect samsung to do anything overly rash, but apple's another story.
2011-05-30 12:03 <wpwrak> whitequark: also, apple has already hat its near-death experience. maybe they liked it ;-)
2011-05-30 12:03 <wpwrak> s/hat/had/
2011-05-30 12:03 <DocScrutinizer> I need facts though. When I say "ok, send me some pandaboard for evaluation, they're cheap but I'm not sponsoring this enterprise" - well, we'll see what's happening
2011-05-30 12:04 <whitequark> wpwrak: I never heard about apple near-death experience. can you send a link?
2011-05-30 12:04 <DocScrutinizer> hah, wasn't that when Jobs resurrected?
2011-05-30 12:05 <wpwrak> whitequark: oh, i'm sure you remember. before they brought jobs back, they weren't doing so well.
2011-05-30 12:05 <DocScrutinizer> o/
2011-05-30 12:05 <DocScrutinizer> still pondering coffee or nap
2011-05-30 12:05 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: how many hours of uptime now ?
2011-05-30 12:06 <DocScrutinizer> 40?
2011-05-30 12:06 <whitequark> wpwrak: ah yes. was that in 90's? just to clarify, I was born in 1993 :)
2011-05-30 12:06 <whitequark> so I doubt I can remember that :)
2011-05-30 12:07 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: hmm. i guess we'll know when nature has solved that problem when your head rolls on the Enter key ;-)
2011-05-30 12:07 <DocScrutinizer> tested it, nothing happens :-P
2011-05-30 12:07 <DocScrutinizer> IRC doesn't like empty lines
2011-05-30 12:08 <wpwrak> whitequark: hmm. childhood memories perhaps ;-) i'd google it up if i dared to move my mouse (it's recharging. so it'll be chat-only for me for a while)
2011-05-30 12:08 <DocScrutinizer> but, as you never know what can happen:
2011-05-30 12:08 <DocScrutinizer> time for 12648430    
2011-05-30 12:08 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: while rolling towards the Enter key, your head will reach other keys .. ;-)
2011-05-30 12:09 <DocScrutinizer> bigvikp#+
2011-05-30 12:09 <DocScrutinizer> yeah that works
2011-05-30 12:09 <DocScrutinizer> not easy though
2011-05-30 12:10 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: and you'll roll a lot as your subconsciousness relives the fiery awakening that makes you afraid of sleeping now :)
2011-05-30 12:10 <DocScrutinizer> lol
2011-05-30 12:11 <whitequark> wpwrak: according to wiki, that has happened in 1997. I barely remember that time, and anyway I hadn't even touched my first PC :)
2011-05-30 12:11 <DocScrutinizer> actually I need to find a replacement switch for my mouse, this drives me mad
2011-05-30 12:11 <DocScrutinizer> this thing
2011-05-30 12:11 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: are you an elephant ? :)
2011-05-30 12:12 <DocScrutinizer> no, my mouse is a tick
2011-05-30 12:13 <wpwrak> whitequark: ah yes, a bit early then
2011-05-30 12:13 <DocScrutinizer> firggin Logi MX Revolution (some 80¬) and cheap chinese switches that break and drive you nuts after 3 years
2011-05-30 12:13 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
2011-05-30 12:14 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: you got what you asked for. or don't you find this behaviour revolting ? :)
2011-05-30 12:14 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer: iirc they're sending replacements for free or something like that
2011-05-30 12:31 <DocScrutinizer> replacement switches? or new mause? :-)
2011-05-30 12:38 <whitequark> i heard about new mouse
2011-05-30 12:52 <wpwrak> lifetime warranty ? that could be dangerous in places where electronics are expensive but killers are cheap
2011-05-30 12:57 <whitequark> heh
2011-05-30 13:16 <Jay7> vladkorotnev: check screen -u too for your application
2011-05-30 13:17 <Jay7> screen have some way to do with non-utf-8 apps
2011-05-30 13:17 <vladkorotnev> Jay7: fbterm solved my problems ;)
2011-05-30 13:17 <Jay7> ah, ok then
2011-05-30 13:18 <Jay7> DocScrutinizer: I've changed lot of switches in old MS mouse
2011-05-30 13:19 <Jay7> may be good idea to replace mechanical switches with something other.. 
2011-05-30 13:20 <whitequark> Jay7: capacitive sensors? optical sensors? put a webcam inside and capture the shadow of fingers?
2011-05-30 13:20 <Jay7> whitequark: btw, about latest
2011-05-30 13:20 <Jay7> I have Genius mouse with 'optowheel'
2011-05-30 13:20 <Jay7> it's optical sensor instead of wheel :)
2011-05-30 13:21 <Jay7> a bit crazy but after disabling horizontal scrolling in X it started to be useful again :)
2011-05-30 13:22 <Jay7> easiest way to replace mechanical switch with reed switch
2011-05-30 13:22 <Jay7> it even will do 'clicking' :)
2011-05-30 14:02 <whitequark> Jay7: another idea is to capture electromyogram (is it called so?..)
2011-05-30 14:02 <whitequark> you just think about clicking -- and voila -- it's already been done!
2011-05-30 14:03 <Jay7> we should implement this into Ya NN :)
2011-05-30 14:03 <whitequark> Ya?
2011-05-30 14:03 <whitequark> yet another?
2011-05-30 14:03 <Jay7> after-Ben :)
2011-05-30 14:03 <Jay7> it was reffered so some times
2011-05-30 14:03 <whitequark> sounds interesting
2011-05-30 14:03 <whitequark> can you tell me a few facts?
2011-05-30 14:04 <Jay7> not sure about history.. may be just next 'letter' in alphabet :)
2011-05-30 14:04 <Jay7> whitequark: it's just bunch of ideas, nothing real
2011-05-30 14:06 <whitequark> I hope it will be more interesting than current NN :)
2011-05-30 14:06 <Jay7> we all hope so :)
2011-05-30 14:29 <wolfspraul> viric: did you by any chance find the nanonixos screenshot we talked about yesterday?
2011-05-30 14:29 <wolfspraul> the 06-01 news are slowly shaping up... http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2011-06-01
2011-05-30 14:29 <wolfspraul> next I need to collect some nice pics from Werner's VGA hack
2011-05-30 14:29 <wolfspraul> and then mention azonenberg's 4004 DIY project in some intelligent way
2011-05-30 14:30 <wolfspraul> and then maybe ben-wpan production, ideally if tuxbrain could update us a little as well :-)
2011-05-30 14:30 <wolfspraul> the reorder the whole thing a little, it's somewhat unreadable right now (too much)
2011-05-30 14:32 <viric> argg
2011-05-30 14:32 <viric> I forgot.
2011-05-30 14:32 <viric> How should I make a screenshot, btw?
2011-05-30 14:37 <wolfspraul> he, good question
2011-05-30 14:37 <wolfspraul> let's ask the wiki :-)
2011-05-30 14:37 <wolfspraul> I did it once or twice only, and forgot
2011-05-30 14:37 <wolfspraul> in typical free software style, there are many ways...
2011-05-30 14:37 <vladkorotnev> to make a screenshot, just use fbgrab over ssh :P
2011-05-30 14:38 <wolfspraul> yes, I just wanted to ask whether you have fbgrab
2011-05-30 14:39 <vladkorotnev> wolfspraul: who? me or viric?
2011-05-30 14:53 <wolfspraul> no viric
2011-05-30 14:54 <wolfspraul> if he has fbgrab he can try that
2011-05-30 14:54 <vladkorotnev> is libbz2 available for Ben NN?
2011-05-30 14:56 <whitequark> Two types have compatible type if their types are the same.  ANSI C Standard, 3.1.2.6.
2011-05-30 15:13 <qi-bot> [commit] kyak: golded: Fidonet Mail Reader/Editor. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b710d6b
2011-05-30 15:16 <Fusin> hi qiots
2011-05-30 15:20 <vladkorotnev> Fusin:hi
2011-05-30 15:24 <Fusin> hi vladko va bene?
2011-05-30 15:29 <vladkorotnev> Fusin: wut? :P
2011-05-30 15:31 <Fusin> va bene sei italiano and is asking if all runs well @ your side (wasup?) :D
2011-05-30 15:31 <Fusin> va bene = goin well
2011-05-30 15:31 <Fusin> s/goin/going
2011-05-30 15:34 <vladkorotnev> Fusin: yes, everything's good :P
2011-05-30 15:34 <Fusin> here too, except to hot
2011-05-30 15:34 <Fusin> we had 33°C here today
2011-05-30 15:40 <DocScrutinizer> Jay7: reed switch, good approach. :-) thanks
2011-05-30 15:40 <lunavorax_frizzl> Hi all
2011-05-30 15:41 <lunavorax_frizzl> I got the name for the counter-raspbery-pi project
2011-05-30 15:41 <lunavorax_frizzl> "ZX NanoNote"
2011-05-30 15:41 <lunavorax_frizzl> Oh yeah
2011-05-30 15:42 <Fusin> lunavorax_frizzl: I know ZX81, but ZX NanoNote??? :-D
2011-05-30 15:49 <Fusin> wb Jay7 
2011-05-30 15:54 <vladkorotnev> could please anyone with the OpenWRT toolchain build me this --> https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/packages/libs/bzip2 <-- for the Ben?
2011-05-30 16:05 <lunavorax_frizzl> Fusin, ;)
2011-05-30 16:06 <lunavorax_frizzl> Fusin, I suggested once the making of a ZX Spectrum-like NanoNote as a better alternative to the Raspbery Pi for childrens to learn computing
2011-05-30 16:06 <Fusin> Well, a NanoNote with a good BASIC-Interpreter would be a good tool for Kids
2011-05-30 16:08 <Fusin> The BASIC does not need to be full fledged like Virtual-Basic. Any GW-Basic interpreter would do
2011-05-30 16:08 <Fusin> only needs basic Graphics and Sound support (for Games etc) :D
2011-05-30 16:10 <lunavorax_frizzl> Fusin, a Nanonote with a good documentation and exemple for kids will be fine, whatever the language. They just need a proper doc and exemples (and the tools pre-installed of course)
2011-05-30 16:10 <Fusin> right
2011-05-30 16:10 <Fusin> I'm with you :D
2011-05-30 16:10 <lunavorax_frizzl> Now we need money
2011-05-30 16:10 <lunavorax_frizzl> :(
2011-05-30 16:10 <lunavorax_frizzl> The sad part
2011-05-30 16:10 <Fusin> Can't we print our own??
2011-05-30 16:10 <Fusin> ;)
2011-05-30 16:11 <Fusin> Nano$
2011-05-30 16:11 <lunavorax_frizzl> Haha
2011-05-30 16:11 <Fusin> hrhr
2011-05-30 16:44 <wpwrak> hmm. my clock measurement with a guaranteed maximum interval between extremal measurements seems to live up to its promise. min-to-max 0.7 ppm with a requested 1 ppm interval, so far. alas, that takes it about half an hour to measure. not too great for production.
2011-05-30 16:49 <whitequark> kyak: golded, oh. isn't fido dead?
2011-05-30 16:51 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: lol, it isnt
2011-05-30 16:52 <whitequark> wpwrak: I remember that you've posted a link to Qi site where there was some pictures of a 8-layer pcb took apart with sandpaper, can you link it again?
2011-05-30 16:52 <wpwrak> whitequark: that was wolfgang
2011-05-30 16:53 <whitequark> oh
2011-05-30 16:54 <whitequark> but still, do you remember the link?
2011-05-30 16:55 <wolfspraul> whitequark: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Sciphone_Dream_G2
2011-05-30 16:55 <whitequark> thanks a lot
2011-05-30 16:56 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: getting there :-) http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2011-06-01
2011-05-30 16:56 <wolfspraul> my todo list now: ben-wpan production, azonenberg 4004 diy, reorder for better flow, maybe get a screenshot from viric :-)
2011-05-30 16:56 <wolfspraul> then there may still be other things I overlooked or that could be mentioned, but I'm getting tired
2011-05-30 16:56 <wolfspraul> 2 months is too long
2011-05-30 16:58 <wpwrak> you have one more day anyway :)
2011-05-30 16:59 <wolfspraul> yes sure
2011-05-30 16:59 <wolfspraul> what do you think so far?
2011-05-30 16:59 <whitequark> just found the 8:10 vga thing. it is really weird. is that done purely in software via bitbanging?
2011-05-30 16:59 <wolfspraul> your stuff is excellent as always, vga & so much on ben-wpan...
2011-05-30 16:59 <wolfspraul> how does this work?
2011-05-30 17:00 <wpwrak> "Adam Wang reported on the latest Milkymist One RC3 production status". maybe add an executive summary ?
2011-05-30 17:00 <wolfspraul> yes, it works :-)
2011-05-30 17:00 <wolfspraul> 2 minutes, hmm
2011-05-30 17:00 <wolfspraul> well, the link points to the mail, and it's hard to summarize
2011-05-30 17:00 <wolfspraul> so many things moving, so many details
2011-05-30 17:00 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (hard to summarize) indeed ;-)
2011-05-30 17:00 <wolfspraul> executive summary is simple: DELAY
2011-05-30 17:01 <wolfspraul> we are freaking behind schedule, a lot
2011-05-30 17:01 <wolfspraul> so rc3 cannot sell, ben-wpan still slow as well
2011-05-30 17:01 <wpwrak> something like "several minor delays, ETA 8/11" ? 
2011-05-30 17:01 <wolfspraul> do you want me to add that executive summary :-)
2011-05-30 17:01 <wpwrak> well, everybody has delays :)
2011-05-30 17:02 <wolfspraul> you know I want to free the valuable times of the executives for drinks and other important meetings
2011-05-30 17:02 <wolfspraul> so just "delay"
2011-05-30 17:02 <wolfspraul> come back later, nothing to see...
2011-05-30 17:02 <wpwrak> ah, tuxbrain contacted me just a few minutes ago. the fab is looking for some cad file (which they should have :) and they plan to smt this week
2011-05-30 17:02 <wolfspraul> oh, great!
2011-05-30 17:03 <wpwrak> also "Two threads on the mailing list discussed plans about adding a MMU to the Milkymist SoC." wants a summary
2011-05-30 17:03 <wolfspraul> agreed, but there is none
2011-05-30 17:04 <wpwrak> this one is an excellent example for a good entry: "Xiangfu Liu demonstrated Open Sound Control ("OSC") with his Milkymist One. OSC is another promising way to control Milkymist One, with many nice clients easily available for popular smartphones and tablets."
2011-05-30 17:04 <wolfspraul> quite a lot of planning in those threads, I'm not sure anybody is doing anything now - they left that open :-)
2011-05-30 17:04 <wpwrak> "what happened ? what does it mean ? what does it mean for me ?"
2011-05-30 17:04 <wpwrak> (mmu) yeah, that was the impression i got
2011-05-30 17:04 <wolfspraul> if you know OSC, now you know that m1 supports osc
2011-05-30 17:04 <wolfspraul> that's the point of that entry
2011-05-30 17:04 <wpwrak> but there seems to be some narrowing down on what's feasible and what not
2011-05-30 17:05 <wolfspraul> do you know osc?
2011-05-30 17:05 <wolfspraul> I don't
2011-05-30 17:05 <wolfspraul> :-)
2011-05-30 17:05 <wpwrak> nyet :)
2011-05-30 17:05 <wolfspraul> so I can only read what it says in wikipedia, seems to be a 'modern midi'
2011-05-30 17:05 <wolfspraul> I guess first of all it's a protocol to send simple messages back and forth
2011-05-30 17:05 <wolfspraul> just click on that video, then it's clear :-)
2011-05-30 17:05 <wolfspraul> although ironically sound is missing in that video, argh
2011-05-30 17:06 <wpwrak> (mm1 sold out) do you know if anyone else has stock ? so that you can divert prospective buyers there ?
2011-05-30 17:06 <wolfspraul> at least it makes you focus on the OSC :-)
2011-05-30 17:06 <wolfspraul> not sure, of course we can mention that
2011-05-30 17:06 <wpwrak> also, the news entry ought to say something about when more will be coming. it reads almost like saying "EOL"
2011-05-30 17:06 <wolfspraul> the little feedback I get seems to indicate that it may be very low or out of stock everywhere
2011-05-30 17:06 <wolfspraul> maybe tuxbrain still has 1
2011-05-30 17:07 <wpwrak> okay, single-bit quantities probably aren't worth mentioning :)
2011-05-30 17:07 <Fusin> bye
2011-05-30 17:07 <Fusin> (aka good night folks)
2011-05-30 17:08 <wolfspraul> me too, reading the backlog tomorrow...
2011-05-30 17:08 <wolfspraul> n8
2011-05-30 17:09 <wpwrak> (4tH) maybe put "FORTH" or a link explaining what it is somewhere ?
2011-05-30 17:09 <wolfspraul> I think the interesting thing about OSC is (and I'm guessing a bit), that you can basically have one of many Android or iphone/ipad clients, and then control m1 from there
2011-05-30 17:09 <wolfspraul> it's easy to hook a patch into osc input (again guessing)
2011-05-30 17:09 <wolfspraul> so basically with osc, we can become an iphone/ipad accessory - isn't that great?
2011-05-30 17:10 <wpwrak> (sound track made by kaossilator) maybe use "with" ? it's an instrument, although admittedly one that doesn't require a lot of skills for something as simple as this
2011-05-30 17:10 <wolfspraul> you need to connect the m1 ethernet to a router though, and from your phone with wifi to the m1
2011-05-30 17:10 <wpwrak> (osc) whoa. heavy setup.
2011-05-30 17:10 <wolfspraul> changed [with]
2011-05-30 17:10 <wolfspraul> not really
2011-05-30 17:11 <wolfspraul> think of someone who already has an android phone
2011-05-30 17:11 <wolfspraul> how can he control m1 right now?
2011-05-30 17:11 <wolfspraul> keyboard?
2011-05-30 17:11 <wolfspraul> remote control?
2011-05-30 17:11 <wolfspraul> but why not with your phone, if you can download a free osc client with a few clicks
2011-05-30 17:12 <wpwrak> whitequark: it's not entirely sw. well, an earlier version was. now it uses the MMC controller to pump out the pixel data. line timing is still controlled by software. that's a lot more efficient than 100% sw.
2011-05-30 17:12 <wolfspraul> I'm not saying it's all OSC now, but there are OSC fanboys, and the entry is for those that we say ok, m1 supports osc. if you have an osc client, you can use it to control m1.
2011-05-30 17:12 <wolfspraul> there is a linux command-client oscsend utility, I think
2011-05-30 17:12 <wolfspraul> command-line (getting sleepy)
2011-05-30 17:13 <wpwrak> (osc) no, osc is good. it's just a bit of a messy setup. well, you could probably plug a WLAN stick into the MM1. (does rtems have a wifi stack and drivers ?)
2011-05-30 17:13 <whitequark> wpwrak: that's what I have expected. I've seen some interesting implementations on AVR using its SPI shift register
2011-05-30 17:13 <wolfspraul> no way, not supported now and very hard
2011-05-30 17:13 <wolfspraul> I stay realistic. if you want osc, you have to network your m1 over ethernet.
2011-05-30 17:13 <wolfspraul> otherwise your shiny phone cannot reach m1
2011-05-30 17:13 <wolfspraul> osc or not
2011-05-30 17:14 <wolfspraul> but the ethernet osc works today (see the video)
2011-05-30 17:14 <wolfspraul> that's the news
2011-05-30 17:14 <wpwrak> (no wifi) i was afraid it would be so. well, if someone was really into it and ported over the whole stuff from linux ... but yes, it's hard. barely works on linux itself.
2011-05-30 17:15 <wpwrak> (slashdot coverage) also made it to hackaday and dangerousprototypes. nicer feedback there.
2011-05-30 17:15 <wpwrak> (first impression of news) looks great !
2011-05-30 17:17 <wpwrak> do you want to mention jane's keyboard hack ? something frmo leftfield
2011-05-30 17:17 <wolfspraul> sure, I'm just still in my todo
2011-05-30 17:17 <wolfspraul> 4004 diy, ben-wpan production
2011-05-30 17:18 <wolfspraul> two screenshots missing, nanonixos and debian wheezy
2011-05-30 17:18 <wolfspraul> mark (debian wheezy) did not reply, I don't want to stalk him
2011-05-30 17:18 <wpwrak> for ben-wpan production, this one is coming: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/prod/
2011-05-30 17:18 <wolfspraul> nanonixos we see
2011-05-30 17:18 <wpwrak> needs one more item, then it's good to go
2011-05-30 17:18 <wolfspraul> tuxbrain uploaded some pcb pics a while ago (of ben-wpan)
2011-05-30 17:18 <wolfspraul> I have more work in the news
2011-05-30 17:18 <wpwrak> ah yes, they're in the 2 months interval too ;-)
2011-05-30 17:19 <wolfspraul> I definitely want to mention the 4004 diy project
2011-05-30 17:19 <wolfspraul> http://i.imgur.com/y7LzG.png
2011-05-30 17:19 <wpwrak> the smt fab is funny. they always start sending mails around 6 pm ;-)
2011-05-30 17:19 <wolfspraul> but I need to get the facts straight, need to read the #milkymist backlog carefully first
2011-05-30 17:20 <wolfspraul> somehow I think he buys a 4'' wafer for 35usd, and the rest is all diy toasters (exaggerating), and the end goal is to make 4004 processors
2011-05-30 17:20 <wolfspraul> like I said, I need to make this a little more solid :-)
2011-05-30 17:21 <wolfspraul> and maybe I shouldn't skip over everything saying "4004 diy", but instead talk about the next step, the one thereafter
2011-05-30 17:21 <wpwrak> the 4004 still seems to be quite at the horizon
2011-05-30 17:21 <wolfspraul> but that's even harder to get right then
2011-05-30 17:21 <wolfspraul> yes sure, I know
2011-05-30 17:21 <wolfspraul> but I can introduce the project like that, maybe
2011-05-30 17:21 <wpwrak> for now, he seems to struggle with increasing the field-of-view. the microscope only gives him a very narrow area to work in.
2011-05-30 17:21 <wolfspraul> like I said, need to read first, but I want to mention it in some way
2011-05-30 17:22 <wolfspraul> oh I can imagine
2011-05-30 17:23 <rjeffries> irx log is not reachable by me, for now
2011-05-30 17:23 <wolfspraul> and I want to document the process, not just the result. but for that I need to understand more.
2011-05-30 17:23 <wolfspraul> that's for tomorrow...
2011-05-30 17:23 <wpwrak> wish the mm1 video in video ha some colors in it ...
2011-05-30 17:24 <wolfspraul> we probably need a vga grabber
2011-05-30 17:24 <wolfspraul> showing videos of the end result will be important in marketing, and we have nothing
2011-05-30 17:24 <wolfspraul> the indirect recorded ones we have are of horrible quality
2011-05-30 17:24 <wolfspraul> and I doubt we will get onboard real-time encoding done anytime soon (theora or webm)
2011-05-30 17:25 <wolfspraul> so either vga grabber, or sebastien implements tv-out (over the vga connector), that's also relatively easy to record I think
2011-05-30 17:25 <wpwrak> if there's enough bw, just stream out raw dumps and encode off-line ?
2011-05-30 17:25 <wolfspraul> we'll get there :-)
2011-05-30 17:26 <wolfspraul> all work probably, this is not (yet) a general purpose computing platform
2011-05-30 17:26 <whitequark> wolfspraul: what's that semiconductor thingy on the pic? a delay line?
2011-05-30 17:26 <wolfspraul> don't ask me
2011-05-30 17:26 <wpwrak> heh, you just dumped all my ubb-vga pics ;-))
2011-05-30 17:26 <wolfspraul> I'm trying to say something about it that is not completely stupid.
2011-05-30 17:27 <wolfspraul> yes but I think they are nice
2011-05-30 17:27 <wolfspraul> first I though of picking some, then I liked the idea of putting them all in a gallery uncommented
2011-05-30 17:27 <wolfspraul> first they were chronologically (like they appeard in your mails), then I reordered a bit so that you can see the process, the work, back and forth, improvements, etc.
2011-05-30 17:28 <wolfspraul> all the way to the end result
2011-05-30 17:29 <wpwrak> should have one with the 16 color board. the ones you have are all with the first board, 8 colors and no MMC-capable
2011-05-30 17:29 <wolfspraul> maybe I overlooked some still
2011-05-30 17:29 <wolfspraul> possible - you sent so many mails
2011-05-30 17:29 <wpwrak> ;-))
2011-05-30 17:30 <wpwrak> if you picked them from the mails, maybe link to the mail ? that way, they can work as real teasers ?
2011-05-30 17:30 <wolfspraul> already there
2011-05-30 17:30 <wolfspraul> the whole list of mails
2011-05-30 17:31 <wolfspraul> not sure about another link from each picture, maybe
2011-05-30 17:31 <wolfspraul> I can try tomorrow whether I find some overlooked pics or mails
2011-05-30 17:31 <wolfspraul> the mail archiver is also not perfect, sometimes mails disappear from the archives
2011-05-30 17:31 <wolfspraul> buggy, and unmaintained for 10+ years
2011-05-30 17:31 <wolfspraul> pipermail
2011-05-30 17:31 <wpwrak> here are some of the latest board (high resolution): http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/ubb-vga-pub-plugged.jpg
2011-05-30 17:31 <wpwrak> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/ubb-vga-pub-v2.jpg
2011-05-30 17:32 <whitequark> the hedgehog!
2011-05-30 17:32 <wpwrak> the best material (in terms of publication quality) is here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/web/
2011-05-30 17:32 <wolfspraul> ok will look at that tomorrow
2011-05-30 17:33 <wolfspraul> have to go sleep now, n8
2011-05-30 17:33 <wolfspraul> thanks for the feedback!
2011-05-30 17:33 <wpwrak> (whole lot of mails) oh dear ;-)
2011-05-30 17:33 <wolfspraul> there may be more, I think I only looked at the thread starters
2011-05-30 17:34 <wolfspraul> anyway, more polish tomorrow...
2011-05-30 17:54 <kyak> whitequark: i think FIDO is more dead than alive, but golded was ported mostly for vladkorotnev, he seems to be excited about FIDO and actually using it :)
2011-05-30 17:57 <wpwrak> FIFO.userbase = 1 ;-)
2011-05-30 18:10 <Saint> Could anyone help me out with the specs of a gaming desktop?
2011-05-30 18:11 <Saint> Anyone?
2011-05-30 18:17 <whitequark> Saint: try asking at #hardware, this is not the channel you are looking for
2011-05-30 18:52 <qi-bot> The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.trunk-05292011-1533/
2011-05-30 19:39 <vladkorotnev> hello everyone, how do I recover my 1.5gb ubifs partition? When I try to mount it it says recovery needed
2011-05-30 19:42 <whitequark> afaik it should do that automatically
2011-05-30 19:43 <whitequark> at least there is no fsck.ubifs or such. in my experience, it does all the recovery when mounting
2011-05-30 19:43 <vladkorotnev> it doesn't :(
2011-05-30 19:44 <whitequark> can you post dmesg somewhere?
2011-05-30 19:44 <vladkorotnev> sure
2011-05-30 19:45 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: here it is http://pastie.org/1994705
2011-05-30 19:46 <wpwrak> hmm, is anyone here good with math/statistics ? specifically, linear regression with least-square fitting ?
2011-05-30 19:47 <whitequark> vladkorotnev: this (http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/27367/) suggests that it may be a bug in UBI, and manual cleaning of internal structure is needed, due to UBI unable to restore the structure itself
2011-05-30 19:47 <vladkorotnev> wpwrak: wolframalpha.com maybe?
2011-05-30 19:47 <whitequark> vladkorotnev: I don't think that there is easy way to recover your partition. I may be wrong through.
2011-05-30 19:47 <wpwrak> vladkorotnev: ;-)) naw, i already found GSL :) what i need is an idea for how to properly weight my samples
2011-05-30 19:48 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: FFFFFFFUUUUUUUU
2011-05-30 19:48 <wpwrak> whitequark: there is ! it's called "restore the latest backup" (-:C
2011-05-30 19:48 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: however, not that much data, all from my computer :P
2011-05-30 19:48 <vladkorotnev> no backups :(
2011-05-30 19:48 <whitequark> wpwrak: every time there is one man who's sarcastic about someone's backups :))
2011-05-30 19:49 <whitequark> vladkorotnev: what's your kernel version? I've experienced some UBI bugs in the past
2011-05-30 19:50 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: idk what happened to me today. Debian boot loader crashed. Virtualbox doesn't run. UBI partition doesn't mount. fu-k!
2011-05-30 19:50 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: Linux BenNanoNote 2.6.32.27 #1 PREEMPT Wed May 25 05:49:30 CEST 2011 mips GNU/Linux this?
2011-05-30 19:50 <whitequark> ahhh 2.6.32
2011-05-30 19:51 <whitequark> that's the point.
2011-05-30 19:51 <whitequark> there is a lot of nasty UBI bugs in .32
2011-05-30 19:51 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: so&?
2011-05-30 19:51 <whitequark> upgrade to at least .35, or better to .38-.39
2011-05-30 19:52 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: how? and will it be ok?
2011-05-30 19:52 <whitequark> we've did some work of porting all the jz47xx changes to recent kernels with Lars
2011-05-30 19:52 <whitequark> my tree should work on Ben, and it's .39
2011-05-30 19:52 <whitequark> and yes, UBI will work fine, it was tested by me and tens of russian developers
2011-05-30 19:53 <whitequark> here it is: http://git.whitequark.org/xz0032-linux.git/log/?h=xz0032-2.6.39-dev
2011-05-30 19:53 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: i am not that professional, i don't know how to upgrade kernel. and I meant will it mount after the upgrade, not will it work
2011-05-30 19:53 <vladkorotnev> plus, it's 2:03 AM here
2011-05-30 19:54 <whitequark> ah yes. no, it probably won't mount, but it won't also fail in the future
2011-05-30 19:54 <whitequark> you can ask someone here with Ben to compile the kernel probably
2011-05-30 19:54 <whitequark> maybe there is ever an 'officially' approoved version of recent kernels
2011-05-30 19:55 <vladkorotnev> whitequark: i'm on the 05/24/11 image if that matters
2011-05-30 19:56 <whitequark> vladkorotnev: I don't have Ben and I haven't worked with Qi Hardware images/packages. it's just my device having the processor of same family with Ben, and so I am here
2011-05-30 19:56 <whitequark> but I still have worked with ubi nevertheless
2011-05-30 19:57 <vladkorotnev> ok, bye everyone. have to wake up at 10:56 am tomorrow. then I think I will reformat the partition...
2011-05-30 21:07 <dvdk> wpwrak: just trying to write a freashmeat.net release announcement for the 05-28 firmware and wondering about how to call the avrdude chip-programming capabilities of nanonote.
2011-05-30 21:07 <dvdk> wpwrak: you think it's correct to call it "repository now includes a version of avrdude that turns the NanoNote into a high-speed chip-programmer"
2011-05-30 21:08 <dvdk> s/"re/"[..] re/
2011-05-30 21:14 <wpwrak> dvdk: it's actually relatively slow (at least it feels like that ;-)
2011-05-30 21:15 <dvdk> wpwrak: thought it should be at least faster than a parallel port programmer :)
2011-05-30 21:15 <dvdk> so you thiink i should strip the 'high-speed'
2011-05-30 21:15 <dvdk> ?
2011-05-30 21:15 <wpwrak> dvdk: maybe "that turns NanoNote + UBB into a chip programmer" ? then you have about the same number of attributes
2011-05-30 21:16 <wpwrak> i don't really know how it compares speed-wise with others. i had to slow things down a bit to make it work, so i suspect it's not the fastest one around. but maybe the others don't work with default settings either ...
2011-05-30 21:19 <whitequark> hm, this sounds like a real use case for NN, interesting
2011-05-30 21:23 <dvdk> wpwrak: what about 'Optional software installable from the repository includes a version of avrdude that turns the NanoNote into a generic chip-programmer (the "UBB" adapter-board for accessing the I/O pins is available from Tuxbrain and other distributors).'
2011-05-30 21:24 <dvdk> it's a freshmeat announcement for 'nanonote firmware' so we ought to explain what a UBB is
2011-05-30 21:24 <wpwrak> dvdk: it's only for AVR, not "generic". of course, you could make programmers for other chips as well. e.g., the f32xbase project has a ben-based one for C8051F3xx chips
2011-05-30 21:25 <dvdk> 'into a AVR chip-programmer'?
2011-05-30 21:25 <wpwrak> dvdk: i would also drop the "optional". that often means "at extra cost" :-)
2011-05-30 21:25 <dvdk> s/a/an'
2011-05-30 21:25 <dvdk> :)
2011-05-30 21:25 <wpwrak> yeah, sounds good
2011-05-30 21:26 <dvdk> s/optional/  yeah and the more concise the better
2011-05-30 21:26 <wpwrak> or maybe "into a programmer for AVR chips"
2011-05-30 21:26 <dvdk> even better
2011-05-30 21:40 <wpwrak> hehe, ~0.1 ppm accuracy. soon i'll be ready to measure the gravitation of passing neutrinos ;-)
2011-05-30 21:41 <dvdk> wpwrak: everybody measures neutrinus.  try measure WIMPS :)
2011-05-30 21:41 <dvdk> s/neutrinu/neutrino  s/WIMPS/WIMPs
2011-05-30 21:41 <dvdk> time for bed
2011-05-30 21:41 <dvdk> cu
2011-05-30 21:41 <wpwrak> hmm yes. maybe i'll even stuble upon some even darker matter :)
2011-05-30 21:42 <whitequark> wpwrak: 0.1 ppm of what?
2011-05-30 21:42 <dvdk> "The latest firmware features WIMPsens that uses the Ben's microphone to sample the density of dark matter"
2011-05-30 21:43 <dvdk> gotta go
2011-05-30 21:43 <wpwrak> whitequark: the frequency of the atusb crystal oscillator
2011-05-30 21:43 <wpwrak> dvdk: ;-))
2011-05-30 21:43 <dvdk> cu
2011-05-30 21:44 <wpwrak> whitequark: in relation to an NTP-disciplined host clock
2011-05-30 21:44 <whitequark> wpwrak: is NTP that good, really?
2011-05-30 21:44 <wpwrak> whitequark: kinda hard to tell without a nuclear clock reference ;-)
2011-05-30 21:45 <wpwrak> whitequark: what i'm interested in is relative time. so all i need is the drift compensation. i don't care about the time offset.
2011-05-30 21:46 <whitequark> then, what shall it do with NTP? NTP is all about network synchronization, isn't it?
2011-05-30 21:47 <wpwrak> NTP also corrects drift. PCs usually have lousy crystals. ~+/-100 ppm tolerance.
2011-05-30 21:49 <whitequark> ah. yes.
2011-05-30 21:49 <whitequark> okay, I'm going to bed
2011-05-30 22:33 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: only for system clock, RTC usually is way better
2011-05-30 22:36 <wpwrak> maybe. but there the resolution is horrible. and synchronizing to an edge may be tricky.
2011-05-30 22:37 <wpwrak> (i.e., i'm too lazy to figure out that one as well ;-)
2011-05-30 22:39 <DocScrutinizer> notices he missed 90% of relevant backscroll
2011-05-30 22:39 <DocScrutinizer> maybe time for a nice walk
2011-05-30 22:40 <DocScrutinizer> it starts to get funy when the uptime shows ???
2011-05-30 22:40 <DocScrutinizer> still no head on <enter>
2011-05-30 22:41 <wpwrak> well, you'll crash for some 12+ hours :)
2011-05-30 22:41 <DocScrutinizer> but a huge milk supply by now :-D
2011-05-30 22:42 <DocScrutinizer> for *lots* of 0xc0ffee
2011-05-30 22:43 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: usualy not
2011-05-30 22:43 <DocScrutinizer> as mentioned before: sleep is overrated
2011-05-30 22:43 <wpwrak> it has its uses :)
2011-05-30 22:43 <DocScrutinizer> a crime to sleep on such a nice night
2011-05-30 22:44 <DocScrutinizer> heads out for a walk in the dark
2011-05-30 23:23 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/: added free-running 48 bit 8 MHz counter for clock measurements http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8c57277
2011-05-30 23:23 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-xtal.c (do_atben, main): moved board-specific code to separate function http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/5a6aae5
2011-05-30 23:23 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-xtal: moved atben-specific code to atben.c http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bdca204
2011-05-30 23:23 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-xtal: added atusb support (via ATUSB_TIMER) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/61e656e
2011-05-30 23:23 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/setup.hmac: updated ATUSB application firmware URL for new version http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9515d96
2011-05-30 23:23 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: added clock frequency test for atusb and updated documentation http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c8e942f
2011-05-30 23:23 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/analysis.hmac: added atrf-xtal measurement on atusb; clarifictions http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8c25bc2
2011-05-30 23:24 <wpwrak> anyone care to proof-read what should hopefully be the final version (as far as this ben-wpan SMT run is concerned) ? http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/prod/index.html