2011-05-28 00:00 oh, so no broken cables ? that's actually good 2011-05-28 00:00 (vga) yeeah ! ;-) 2011-05-28 00:00 ah hold, maybe 1 broken cable, yes 2011-05-28 00:00 how small are the solder connections? 2011-05-28 00:00 it has a small punctured hole in it, very strange 2011-05-28 00:00 right in the middle of the hinge, no idea how that hold got there 2011-05-28 00:00 hole 2011-05-28 00:01 maybe it was punctured already during assembly, and only failed later 2011-05-28 00:01 grunthus: if you are up for it, you can definitely try to disassemble the ben and see whether reseating the cable fixes the issue 2011-05-28 00:01 wolfspraul: so no cables with hairline cracks ? that's the one i'd dislike the most. 2011-05-28 00:01 tuxbrain will take your device back and replace it with a new one even if you 'hacked' it a little :-) 2011-05-28 00:02 that's assuming that you be nice to the Ben and really just try to fix the cable, not some wilder hacking, then your Ben is really yours :-) 2011-05-28 00:02 wolfspraul: I'll probably try to fix it then. Only not tonight, after a glass of wine! 2011-05-28 00:02 wpwrak: no I don't remember [hairline cracks] 2011-05-28 00:03 grunthus: yes of course, let's do it! That's more fun anyway. If we fail, you get the Ben replaced anyhow. 2011-05-28 00:04 I see 3 screws, one in battery comp., two in front base. 2011-05-28 00:05 Looks like they will release keyboard surround from base? 2011-05-28 00:05 grunthus: there's a 4th screw, on the other side of the battery. may be covered by some sticker 2011-05-28 00:08 Found the fourth screw. 2011-05-28 00:08 My miniature screwdriver set here is not miniature enough. Will need to get another one tomorrow. 2011-05-28 00:09 Are you likely to be around at all? 2011-05-28 00:09 grunthus: you may find these instructions useful: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-April/007766.html 2011-05-28 00:09 #qi-hardware never sleeps ;-) 2011-05-28 00:10 hehe! 2011-05-28 00:12 OK, got the link and will work on it tomorrow. 2011-05-28 00:12 wpwrak: in which way did you think Linaro can help us? 2011-05-28 00:14 wolfspraul: they may know sources of financing. they themselves are non-profit yet have a sizeable workforce. maybe they know people who want more than just ARM ? 2011-05-28 00:15 wolfspraul: also, there seems to be ubuntu money in there. you never know where that may want to go. and ubuntu is certainly about long-term strategy, just as we are. 2011-05-28 00:18 wolfspraul: their cto, davis rusling, will be at linuxcon in japan next week. may be a good time to ping him. see what he says. if he sounds interesting/interested, maybe you could meet in person. linuxcon: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-japan 2011-05-28 00:20 goodnight. 2011-05-28 00:24 n8 2011-05-28 00:24 he :-) 2011-05-28 00:24 ok, got it 2011-05-28 00:25 my understanding of arm is that it is basically initiated by ARM Ltd, and they are beating the drums to get their customers or other players in the 'ecosystem' to pay money to linaro for support 2011-05-28 00:25 like a pool 2011-05-28 00:25 then Linary spends that money mostly on engineering for the greater good of the platform 2011-05-28 00:25 I hope they don't fork the kernel, as long as their work is directed towards kernel.org it should be a good thing 2011-05-28 00:25 I highly doubt they are interested in anything non-arm 2011-05-28 00:26 even with arm, the fee to have your device/company supported is typically 3 million USD / year 2011-05-28 00:26 they seem to focus strongly on mainline 2011-05-28 00:26 but nothing bad about extracting some money from big corps who would otherwise be ignorant or wouldn't even know how to feed money to 'upstream' 2011-05-28 00:26 great 2011-05-28 00:27 from the people they hire on the engineering side that probably comes more or less automatically 2011-05-28 00:27 they may not be interested themselves in non-arm, but they may know someone who is 2011-05-28 00:27 heh ;-) 2011-05-28 00:31 so i would just present the qi-hw effort with its highlights (ben, linux support for it, mm1, rtems/partial linux, wpan), and explain our predicament. ask if they have useful contacts, who would be interested in long-term investment along these lines 2011-05-28 00:32 if you consider the meager resources of qi-hw, the results are quite amazing. that may ring some bell. 2011-05-28 00:33 with my understanding of linaro, that wouldn't make any sense 2011-05-28 00:33 they are essentially an engineering pool setup to funnel resources into 'arm upstream' into kernel.org 2011-05-28 00:33 i wouldn't try to get linaro to get involved directly. but see if they can refer us to someone who can be useful 2011-05-28 00:33 between arm ltd. and their large customers, or anyone they can convince to pay x million USD / year into linaro 2011-05-28 00:33 then linaro spends it on hiring individual kernel hackers 2011-05-28 00:33 now... 2011-05-28 00:34 ARM is a highly proprietary chip company, they believe in their IP, for-money licenses to that IP, etc. 2011-05-28 00:34 yes, so they've figured out how to solve part of the problem qi-hw has 2011-05-28 00:35 oh sure, they have very profitable proprietary ip that can fund engineering of open source drivers/kernel to sell more of that proprietary ip 2011-05-28 00:35 that model is easy to understand, and Linaro is doing well, and a good thing for ARM 2011-05-28 00:35 no, i mean linaro, not arm 2011-05-28 00:36 that's the same thing. linaro is a pool of money ARM setup, and they get their large customers to pay into that pool 2011-05-28 00:36 then the pool spends the money on high-quality upstream-capable kernel hackers 2011-05-28 00:36 something those companies paying into the pool may not be able to do themselves, or they still want to do that in addition to what they do in-house 2011-05-28 00:37 arm has been quite successful in getting people to understand the importance of this and pay into linaro, so that's a good thing 2011-05-28 00:37 for arm, of course 2011-05-28 00:37 yup 2011-05-28 00:38 with Milkymist we are all out alone :-) 2011-05-28 00:38 i wouldn't try to get into linaro's model. but to see if we can milk them for contacts. they must talk to a lot of people. certainly not all of them are just 100% arm. 2011-05-28 00:38 don't forget the nanonote ! :) 2011-05-28 00:39 nobody supporting it on the compiler side, no customers who could pay into a pool, nothing. Just a few people :-) 2011-05-28 00:40 typical for an immature project. mm1 needs probably 2 real product runs before it can become sustainable. 2011-05-28 00:40 nanonote needs one more, if it's played well 2011-05-28 00:40 first I was talking about Milkymist the SoC 2011-05-28 00:40 both are "cheap", as such things go 2011-05-28 00:41 Linaro is a model to support a proprietary chip better in kernel.org 2011-05-28 00:42 sure. you don't want their business. 2011-05-28 00:43 but they ought to have contacts that are of use for us. contacts they wouldn't mind giving away, if asked nicely. 2011-05-28 00:44 they seem to understand the principles of doing successful kernel work. you could connect there. 2011-05-28 00:44 the achievements of qi-hw are, considering the size, quite stellar. in the kernel area, mainly thanks to larsc. 2011-05-28 00:45 the success story of qi-hw so far is the ben. limited in power, limited in openness, but it works. has top-notch mainline support. no less than two major embedded distributions support it. 2011-05-28 00:46 mm1 is the next thing. risky. exploring into areas no man has ventured before. but consistent with the philosophy. 2011-05-28 00:47 now, the ben needs a successor. badly. we can do better. there has been incremental development. take ben-wpan. everything that happens there is 100% open. no proprietary tools or formats. 2011-05-28 00:48 so, take the experience of ben-wpan, merge with nanonote, and add what we haven't dared to tackle yet, namely case design (and preparing for compliance/certification) 2011-05-28 00:49 this should a) produce a better product, b) help to keep the community alive and even grow, c) provide a proof of concept that the whole approach works. 2011-05-28 00:50 now, the issue is finding someone who thinks this is worthwhile. 2011-05-28 00:51 I don't know about the third product yet, I need to really settle m1 first 2011-05-28 00:51 traditional investors probably don't. but there ought to be folks who would, if it was shown to them in the right way. linaro may know such people. 2011-05-28 00:51 which is making good progress 2011-05-28 00:51 no way, I still didn't get my point about linaro across 2011-05-28 00:51 linaro is an engineering pool 2011-05-28 00:52 non-profit doesn't mean much, they are very much using real money and can only spend as much as they make 2011-05-28 00:52 yes yes. our biz model, as far we can call it than, isn't theirs. perfectly clear. 2011-05-28 00:52 'non-profit' from ARM's perspective, yes 2011-05-28 00:52 ARM did a good thing with Linaro 2011-05-28 00:52 remember how so many people tried to explain all sorts of big corps about 'upstream' 2011-05-28 00:52 with limited success 2011-05-28 00:52 Linaro solves that problem outside of those corps 2011-05-28 00:52 sure 2011-05-28 00:52 now they can wire x million USD to somewhere, and the money will be used in a good way 2011-05-28 00:53 and ARM is pushing it, i.e. inviting their customers to pay into this pool 2011-05-28 00:53 so it's 'official' and those corps are not worried about wasting their money 2011-05-28 00:53 MIPS and others should do something similar, even Intel could do something like that 2011-05-28 00:53 I really like the clarity of the model 2011-05-28 00:53 so, linaro understand how this works. this means that they will also understand why what we do is good. this means that we have basic credibility with them. 2011-05-28 00:53 Linaro's model 2011-05-28 00:54 now, they talk to people doing hardware. probably lots of them. all sorts of ideas, directions, whatever. 2011-05-28 00:54 if Linaro is 'relatively' independent from ARM (which I doubt), then Linaro management would probably be open-minded about being approached from Intel about extending the company (Linaro) to cover x86 as well 2011-05-28 00:54 what they could do for us is to filter their contacts for those who could have common goals with us. and pass them on. 2011-05-28 00:54 maybe the type of engineering linaro offers has less value on x86 than on arm... 2011-05-28 00:55 we're obviously far out in crazy land to be a direct threat. so why shouldn't they help a distant cousin in arms ? 2011-05-28 00:55 (not ARMs ;-) 2011-05-28 00:57 i think the key is to find some common ground. then try to extend it. 2011-05-28 00:57 I wouldn't know how to talk to anybody from Linaro, well maybe that's a reason to try, in your spirit :-) 2011-05-28 00:57 in this case, the common ground would be the non-trivial understanding of how open source development works. and, in our case, extrapolating it. that makes what we do interesting. 2011-05-28 00:58 but I think when you read about Linaro, you only see 'upstream' and then you think there is some overlap 2011-05-28 00:59 you could just say "we're qi-hw, our objectives are this, we've already done that, but now we need money. we're too stupid to find someone who can help us. do you know someone who could ?" 2011-05-28 00:59 Linaro wants to find more paying customers. If the Ben had an ARM chip, and we had a few million USD to spare and would generally struggle with upstream, Linaro would be glad to talk to us. 2011-05-28 00:59 none of those 3 are true though :-) 2011-05-28 01:00 we have no ARM, we have no money that would even cover 1 Linaro business trip, we are not struggling with upstream 2011-05-28 01:00 yes, "upstream" rang a bell. as it should for them. remember, the key is to establish credibility. if the person you contact thinks you're good, you may get a result. if they don't know what gibberish you're talking about, they'll just ignore you. 2011-05-28 01:01 no no. don't invade on their business. make it a favour, lent to a friendly neighborhood enterprise. 2011-05-28 01:02 the overlap serves to establish credibility. they "grok" upstreaming. so tell them that's what we do for breakfast. on a shoestring. that'll impress them. 2011-05-28 01:04 while they're impressed, they (well, the person you're talking to) would be willing to help. not with money, because there's no business in it for linaro, but with contacts. contacts that are a better fit. 2011-05-28 01:07 I'm wondering about the relationship between ARM/RVDS and Linaro/gcc 2011-05-28 01:07 if Linaro had the green light to really improve gcc for arm, that would be great 2011-05-28 01:07 even better if ARM would donate RVDS to Linaro, as a copy/paste source 2011-05-28 01:08 ARM's proprietary (and expensive) compiler outperforms gcc so much it's not funny 2011-05-28 01:08 20-30% faster code _and_ 20-30% smaller code 2011-05-28 01:08 hmm 2011-05-28 01:08 maybe they want to keep it that way ;-) 2011-05-28 01:08 I'm just reading about Linaro's work, and gcc caught my eye 2011-05-28 01:08 well Linaro does work in gcc, that's why I was wondering 2011-05-28 01:09 and Ubuntu uses the Linaro gcc now 2011-05-28 01:09 besides, 20-30% squared is just about one year ;-) 2011-05-28 01:11 yeah, there's some line between the two. that's also something i'd consider an interesting path: ubuntu/canonical is about strategic planning. for several years, they've been sinking lots of money without return whatsoever. 2011-05-28 01:12 so qi-hw shouldn't look half crazy to them. that is, if they see a light at the _end_ of the tunnel. 2011-05-28 01:12 s/line/link 2011-05-28 01:14 again, linaro could be the conduit to pass such information. 2011-05-28 01:23 but i don't think it's necessary to push in any specific direction. just gain respect, outline the problem in plain terms, ask if they know someone who can help. i would put that indirection, though. else, they may think you want money from them, like so many other beggars every day. 2011-05-28 01:24 "they" would of course be the person you contact. keeping it narrow avoids the "someone will take care of it so i don't have to" reaction that will happen in 100% of the people who could take care of it. 2011-05-28 01:29 did i convince you ? :) 2011-05-28 01:31 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/atben.fig: cover unused PCB space with a white rectangle http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/caa8c14 2011-05-28 01:31 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/setup.hmac: described PC and Ben software and test script installation http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6ac10dd 2011-05-28 01:31 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/setup.hmac: filled the intro sections; added dfu-util installation http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/717f7e7 2011-05-28 01:31 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: added scope screen shots to analysis; show crystal as alt GND for clk http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c93f6d9 2011-05-28 01:31 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: renamed at???-clk*.png to scope-*, to prevent wildcard clash http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/d884ab5 2011-05-28 01:31 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/test.hmac: added introductory text for test setups http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/b583142 2011-05-28 01:34 just scared him away 2011-05-28 01:38 it's late breakfast time in china. maybe the wolf just went hunting :) 2011-05-28 02:03 nah, it's 06-01 news day today 2011-05-28 02:03 have to start cleaning this up a bit ;-) 2011-05-28 02:03 Lars - you are our Linaro! 2011-05-28 02:04 heh, getting an early start this month :) 2011-05-28 02:04 not another embarassment like last month 2011-05-28 02:04 as usual it's a LOT, I will need to spend some time on it 2011-05-28 02:04 I think I also want to mention azonenberg's DIY wafer stuff, it's just too exciting 2011-05-28 02:04 "we have something similar to your 100+ man/xxx MUSD company. we call him 'larsc'" ;-) 2011-05-28 02:05 I am 100% sure if Lars wanted to, he could accept a nicely paid position at Linaro. 2011-05-28 02:05 yeah, cool stuff there, definitely :) 2011-05-28 02:05 pssst ! 2011-05-28 02:05 Linaro seems to be off to a good start, they have money, they seem to be able to convert the money into meaningful progress, all good. 2011-05-28 02:06 ARM is successful in convincing their ecosystem partners to pay into the Linaro pool 2011-05-28 02:06 I have never seen an upstream support model implemented to successfully by any chip maker. 2011-05-28 02:06 well, ubuntu for ARM will call much atention tought.. 2011-05-28 02:07 most are just singling out a few people to work on that 'upstream thing' 2011-05-28 02:07 but inside the chip makers, enthousiasm for that is limited, essentially you just do dirty cleanup work that the best people don't want to do, no recognition from management, etc. 2011-05-28 02:07 I've seen that many times 2011-05-28 02:07 the only thing surprising about it is that google aren't well ahead of them. i guess that shows that they've gotten too fat already. 2011-05-28 02:08 oh, it's a system with many local maxima. some choose to get caught in one of them :) 2011-05-28 02:11 well, just matter of see what have to offer those xilinx fpga with arm core inside ;-) 2011-05-28 02:12 i remenber larsc pointed they we're working on upstream it?.. 2011-05-28 02:12 i mean, i see this like a excuse, to talk then no more :-) 2011-05-28 04:12 okay now i need some ramdisk. 2011-05-28 05:31 wpwrak wolfspraul does not show interest into Nanonote follow-on. MM is his focus, period. 2011-05-28 05:36 s/into/in/ 2011-05-28 05:39 "at this time" = once at the time.. 2011-05-28 05:39 so at this time i'm going bed :-) 2011-05-28 05:39 bye 2011-05-28 06:43 phew, my vpn machine disappeared for a few hours :-) 2011-05-28 06:44 did you think for a second they are coming for you, too? :) 2011-05-28 06:47 no 2011-05-28 09:18 Ballmer said about Windows piracy in China "If you can afford a PC, you could afford the software" 2011-05-28 09:18 Well in that case if they can afford a PC, why now afford a Ben ? :) 2011-05-28 09:19 :) 2011-05-28 09:19 Ok ok, a bigger Ben with a screen, mouse, USBs ports, Ethernet and a real keyboard ;) 2011-05-28 09:19 But still is :D 2011-05-28 09:19 A bigger Ben is a OpenWRT-based PC :P 2011-05-28 09:19 I don't see the problem :P 2011-05-28 09:21 There's two computers I want to buy for a long time now 2011-05-28 09:21 A Loongson computer 2011-05-28 09:21 And the next Amiga X1000 2011-05-28 09:21 But I'm not rich :'( 2011-05-28 09:38 "If you can afford a PC, you could afford the software" - a typical thing to say for some rich fuck 2011-05-28 09:38 who has no idea about how people survive 2011-05-28 09:39 he's right, though. linux has nearly zero cost :) 2011-05-28 09:39 if you can afford bread, you can afford butter. Same thing 2011-05-28 09:39 wpwrak: i think he meant "you can afford buying" 2011-05-28 09:40 kyak: that linux cd can't be all that expensive either ;-) 2011-05-28 09:40 wpwrak: sorry, might have missed your irony :) 2011-05-28 09:40 this words made me angry 2011-05-28 09:41 well, what else can he say ? "be copyous and prosper" ? ;-) 2011-05-28 09:43 he might say that at his deathbad :) 2011-05-28 09:44 ask anyone in traditional textile manufacturing (i.e., the manual one) what they think of those fancy new steam-powered machines and all the hype about that industrial revolution fad :-) 2011-05-28 09:46 i'm sure you can find very educated writings from that epoch that clearly explain why such devil's work must fail 2011-05-28 09:48 a library search among luddite literature might be fun. you could probably piece together a coherent statement for strong intellectual property rights and against free software only using quotes from 18th century texts 2011-05-28 09:50 well, or 19th century. back in the 18th, the machines weren't perceived as much of a threat yet 2011-05-28 10:06 wpwrak: this could mean that there is a chance for humanity on 22nd century :) 2011-05-28 10:07 wpwrak: there is a nice film about that... 2011-05-28 10:07 I should recall it 2011-05-28 10:08 kyak: just imagine the educational and human capital that could be freed if society abolished patents and similar nonsense :) 2011-05-28 10:09 from peter sellers... 2011-05-28 10:10 peter sellers on open source ? that sounds like fun :) 2011-05-28 10:10 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/I%27m_All_Right_Jack 2011-05-28 10:10 hehe 2011-05-28 10:11 maybe I remember bad... but I remember as if in the film, workers strike against the addition of machines in the factories 2011-05-28 10:12 wpwrak: don't you think that education done by patent trolls won't be even more harmful? :) 2011-05-28 10:12 wpwrak: yeah, and how much smaller the amount of millionaires would be? :) 2011-05-28 10:14 kyak: no matter what you do, the amount of millionaries decreases, those resting getting far more rich 2011-05-28 10:15 so true, they are becoming billionaries :) 2011-05-28 10:17 that film from Sellers got forbidden in the Spanish dictatorship, iirc, because it showed too much strength by the unions 2011-05-28 10:29 hmm, i'm kinda anti-union myself. too much potential for abuse. i guess i'm an anarchist at the bottom of my heart. so no to kleptocrats of whatever couleur :) 2011-05-28 10:38 [commit] kyak: luit: Locale and ISO 2022 support for Unicode terminals http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/7f2174a 2011-05-28 10:43 [commit] kyak: luit: Locale and ISO 2022 support for Unicode terminals http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f370d5c 2011-05-28 12:43 http://ibash.org.ru/quote.php?id=9953 2011-05-28 12:48 lol 2011-05-28 13:06 wpwrak: yes, qcad 2011-05-28 13:12 hello everyone 2011-05-28 13:12 if /tmp is a ramdisk, does it use swap partitions as well? 2011-05-28 13:14 vladkorotnev: I always forget about it 2011-05-28 13:15 viric: it seems that a prog I am trying to compile uses too much space in /tmp, so it crashes with a 'No space left on device' error. 2011-05-28 13:15 'mount' will tell you the size of that filesystem. Or 'df' too 2011-05-28 13:15 you can use remount to change it 2011-05-28 13:15 I don't know if it can use swap or not 2011-05-28 13:15 and also, is there any way to make the program think that /data/folder is / ? 2011-05-28 13:16 vladkorotnev: chroot 2011-05-28 13:16 it is shit and doesn't use makefiles 2011-05-28 13:16 viric: won't chroot affect the possibility to run gcc and such? 2011-05-28 13:17 well, you will need gcc in that / 2011-05-28 13:18 viric: will symlinks work as well? 2011-05-28 13:19 no 2011-05-28 13:20 viric: how do I have to compile it if I don't have that much space on my / ? 2011-05-28 13:20 cross compile ? :_) 2011-05-28 13:20 Who wants to put things on /? The compiler? 2011-05-28 13:20 if you have the source, you can make it do whatever you want 2011-05-28 13:20 viric: the part of the shell script that is installing the binaries 2011-05-28 13:21 vladkorotnev: change that 2011-05-28 13:21 kristianpaul: to cross compile I need to build the image, which takes 10hrs 2011-05-28 13:21 you can build the minimal image, not more than 3 hrs i think 2011-05-28 13:22 kristianpaul: but it doesn't use makefile D: 2011-05-28 13:22 you will cross-build instead of changing the install script? 2011-05-28 13:23 viric: I think I'll have to 2011-05-28 13:24 kristianpaul: also I'm on a mac so I don't have the stuff to cross-compile 2011-05-28 13:24 vladkorotnev: well, I can't fight against religion :) 2011-05-28 13:25 :D 2011-05-28 13:25 you can try a virtual machine, i bet there are several methods 2011-05-28 13:25 I'd rent a remote linux system 2011-05-28 13:25 kristianpaul: I would, but 3 gigs free on my HD make me cry :( 2011-05-28 13:26 btw, is there nurses library for the NN? 2011-05-28 13:26 well.. you need to doÂ Â sacrifices from time to time 2011-05-28 13:40 well, it compiles... 2011-05-28 14:27 The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.trunk-05272011-1129/ 2011-05-28 14:29 qi-bot should announce such things with "*** FRESH MEAT !!! ***" ;-) 2011-05-28 14:31 viric: (rent) i'd get a netbook and end the suffering right there and then ;-) 2011-05-28 14:32 to paraphrase balmer, if you can buy a mac, you can afford a netbook :-) 2011-05-28 14:32 Is it safe to rm -rf /tmp/* ? 2011-05-28 14:32 usually not 2011-05-28 14:33 some programs may keep files there they intend to open again. so you should only do this when the system is completely quiescent 2011-05-28 14:33 nevermind 2011-05-28 14:34 I cleared some files from a failed build 2011-05-28 14:34 also, X has files named /tmp/.X* 2011-05-28 14:34 (and gets very unhappy if these should vanish) 2011-05-28 14:34 Now I need SDL/SDL.h and so on :P 2011-05-28 14:34 wpwrak: I was joking. :) 2011-05-28 14:35 any SDL headers for the NN? 2011-05-28 14:37 vladkorotnev: at least the Jlime SDK lets you install -dev packages into the SDK, with opkg-target. this may also work with openwrt 2011-05-28 14:38 wpwrak: I compile directly on the NN :P 2011-05-28 14:38 oh :) well, then just install the -dev package ;-) 2011-05-28 14:39 wpwrak: got it, it wasn't in the 24-05-2011 pkg list :P 2011-05-28 16:23 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/setup.hmac: explicitly mention SDL_gfx as a prerequisite http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/2bb2e7b 2011-05-28 16:23 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/: moved more configurable items to variables http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/0372d7d 2011-05-28 16:23 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/setup.hmac: completed test script customization section http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c78423b 2011-05-28 16:23 [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/atrf-path: added interactive dumping with D http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/b82472b 2011-05-28 16:23 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-path: added visual history of dumps http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/0eec747 2011-05-28 16:23 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/Makefile: target "spectrum" to generate reference spectrum; target spotless http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/680086b 2011-05-28 16:23 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: completed description of signal strength measurement http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/33f84b4 2011-05-28 17:38 dear electronic hackers 2011-05-28 17:38 I've a solar charger here... 2011-05-28 17:38 from Solio. 2011-05-28 17:38 for mobile phones and so. 2011-05-28 17:39 It has four output pins. 2011-05-28 17:39 Vcc and GND for the mobile phone to charge, and between the other two, a resistor. 2011-05-28 17:39 different for every kind of mobile phone connector 2011-05-28 17:39 What do you suspect from that? 2011-05-28 18:02 It did not look as the resistor determining a tension supply 2011-05-28 18:02 maybe it's for a current supply 2011-05-28 18:05 or maybe it adjusts the output voltage ? 2011-05-28 18:07 with a votlmeter, it does not look like so 2011-05-28 18:08 no ... the resistor could be for setting a regulator in the supply 2011-05-28 18:12 that may not work at zero current? 2011-05-28 18:13 I see a PIC on the board... 2011-05-28 18:13 and I'm looking at other components 2011-05-28 18:27 what a bad sight, this mine! 2011-05-28 18:27 VA7205CH (a 8 pin chip) 2011-05-28 18:28 E2FE (a 3 pin chip, one of the three to a heatsink part of the circuit) 2011-05-28 18:29 GS7H (a 3 pin chip) 2011-05-28 18:29 GSY7H I mean 2011-05-28 18:30 or 65Y7HÂ Â (with a _ over the 7) 2011-05-28 18:43 va7205 is for charging a battery the device has. 2011-05-28 19:13 viric: I have an idea of what it may be 2011-05-28 19:14 miniUSB has an ID pin which should be connected to GND directly or via a resistor 2011-05-28 19:14 and some phones, e.g. openmoko, measure the resistance and determine if it is the charger (in which case it will draw all the current) or just PC USB (then it'll get 100/500mA) 2011-05-28 19:15 maybe here PIC measures the resistance too, detects charger type and sets some settings accordingly 2011-05-28 19:29 whitequark, just like the iPhone :) 2011-05-28 19:29 Wait, the iPhone is closed stuff. 2011-05-28 19:29 Hey, I'm wondering something. 2011-05-28 19:30 huh? 2011-05-28 19:30 Why does the some laptops HAVE to be filled ONLY with chips that has NO open drivers. 2011-05-28 19:30 Like my MacBook Pro 2011-05-28 19:30 Why does the chip is a Broadcomm one 2011-05-28 19:30 And not an Intel one 2011-05-28 19:30 Is it so had to fill in the case or what ? 2011-05-28 19:31 a funny thing happened when I replaced Broadcom WiFi with Atheros chip 2011-05-28 19:31 in my notebook 2011-05-28 19:31 Ahteros is... ? 2011-05-28 19:31 before the replace, it had worked ~3 hours from battery (even with wifi turned off with killswitch) 2011-05-28 19:31 closed or open ? 2011-05-28 19:31 and after, it is working more than five 2011-05-28 19:32 atheros is a nice vendor of RF parts who opens drivers and even firmware 2011-05-28 19:32 moreover, the new card finds much more networks than the old one 2011-05-28 19:33 (it'd be very interesting if anyone familiar with RF stuff here would explain the behavior to me) 2011-05-28 19:34 weird 2011-05-28 19:34 whitequark, I dreamed very often of starting my own computer company made exclusively of open hardware. 2011-05-28 19:35 we all do 2011-05-28 19:35 So far the loongson company is doing so, but their stuffs are "cheap". 2011-05-28 19:35 And, AND to CARE about the battery life. 2011-05-28 19:35 It looks like only Apple do care about the battery life of their laptops (sad fact) 2011-05-28 19:36 The other consturtors are saying "Hey it's a 3/6/9 cell battery" 2011-05-28 19:36 apple stuff definitely has great hardware 2011-05-28 19:36 Without specifying 2011-05-28 19:36 Or worse "Hey it last for 10hours" and bang you discover that you have to buy the oversized battery to achieve so. 2011-05-28 19:36 whitequark, I agree 500% 2011-05-28 19:37 when they'll do their netbook, I'll buy it, whatever the cost will be 2011-05-28 19:37 even through it is closed 2011-05-28 19:37 whitequark, that's my dream, Apple quality, but open. 2011-05-28 19:37 that won't happen in near future. you should have all the experience Apple has 2011-05-28 19:37 whitequark, they already do netbooks, the MacBook Air 11' is one. 2011-05-28 19:38 whoops 2011-05-28 19:38 whitequark, I know, but manufacturer should also stop to make shitty stuff. 2011-05-28 19:38 whitequark, like Compaq seriously stop to f**k around with their computers 2011-05-28 19:38 seriously need to stop* 2011-05-28 19:39 Ironically, HP is doing good things imho 2011-05-28 19:39 lunavorax_frizzl: the 11" air is somewhat bigger than my current 10" netbook, and that's critical for me 2011-05-28 19:39 (ironically cause HP owns Compaq) 2011-05-28 19:39 let me find my caliper 2011-05-28 19:39 (hp) i've had very, very bad experience with their tablets, especially tx1000 2011-05-28 19:39 Oh ok whitequark but I don't know if Apple is going to go smaller. 2011-05-28 19:40 whitequark, I don't do tablets 2011-05-28 19:40 whitequark, I consider them other things 2011-05-28 19:41 Asus is making good netbooks so far. But seriously, there's too many products. Why cant' they focus on 3max or 5 ? 2011-05-28 19:42 lunavorax_frizzl: I won't agree on that, eee series is cheap crap 2011-05-28 19:42 And we're back with the Apple comparaison with very few products (you can customise). 2011-05-28 19:42 Yes well I suppose the using experience is relative. 2011-05-28 19:44 whitequark, when i compare my Dell Latitude 2110 with the Asus 1015PEM of my girlfriend, the Asus is definitely smaller, lighter and maybe even faster. 2011-05-28 19:45 whitequark, and it doesn't feature the annoying fan technology Dell is using 2011-05-28 19:45 whitequark, the mad fan that goes crazy whenÂ Â it have a little too much calculus. 2011-05-28 19:46 lunavorax_frizzl: the fan on my samsung is not heard at all when it's idle and is very, very quiet on 100% cpu load 2011-05-28 19:46 and the bottom is moderately hot (not like some other notebooks when you touch it and get some skin damage) 2011-05-28 19:47 I'd say that samsung N250 (IIRC) is like 80% good. anyway, that is impressive for its cost 2011-05-28 19:47 whitequark, isn't Samsung not very Linux freindly ? (or open in general ?) 2011-05-28 19:48 whitequark, oh yeah that's the model I wanted to buy fo a time. I should have bought it. 2011-05-28 19:48 whitequark, but I seriously can't handle 1024 x 600 it's definitely the worst resolution ever. 2011-05-28 19:48 lunavorax_frizzl: well, I'm not a fanatic. their hardware works great, and does not die after half a year (my previous netbook, by Toshiba, did that. and it was very crappy anyway) 2011-05-28 19:49 lunavorax_frizzl: they have a new model with 1366x768, but there's DDR3 2011-05-28 19:49 DDR3 cuts the battery time by around 2x 2011-05-28 19:49 whitequark: I thought that the pic is measuring the resistence 2011-05-28 19:49 Oh ok 2011-05-28 19:49 whitequark, yeah Toshiba sucks 2011-05-28 19:49 But I'm now thinking of the resistor being part of an analog circuit involved in the charging 2011-05-28 19:50 I've to check the exact pinout 2011-05-28 19:50 whitequark, anyway, the Intel Atom chips are crap. I would give a try to the ULV ones if I could gets my hands on. 2011-05-28 19:50 btw 2011-05-28 19:51 does anyone know anything about supercapacitors? 2011-05-28 19:51 it's something I've been waiting for a long time, and I don't know if I can start making use of them 2011-05-28 19:51 whitequark, so far I've been satisfied with the use of Atoms only with a netbook recycled as a web server. 2011-05-28 19:52 lunavorax_frizzl: but atom netbooks may work more than 4 hours 2011-05-28 19:52 and I never seen regular (Core, etc.) notebooks work more than 2 hours 2011-05-28 19:52 that's another critical point for me 2011-05-28 19:53 whitequark, I think I still would prefer a processor that works well rather than a processor that last long 2011-05-28 19:53 and I prefer the former -- that's why I bought a netbook 2011-05-28 19:54 it's quite frustrating (I'm going mad trying to compile gcc on it), but the autonomous time is great, and that's good 2011-05-28 19:55 and the intel graphics card, which they should not dare to call a graphics card at all... 2011-05-28 19:56 (they should rather call it "3D decelerator") 2011-05-28 19:56 whitequark, indeed BUT it's good to have cards that have real open drivers 2011-05-28 19:57 lunavorax_frizzl: yes. and these open drivers sometimes mess up all the console (that happens frequently), and sometimes crash X 2011-05-28 19:57 whitequark, bah ;) 2011-05-28 19:58 whitequark, and yeah I know about X crashing 2011-05-28 19:58 at some moments, I lose belief in open-source... 2011-05-28 20:00 (now someone should ban me on this channel, right? :) 2011-05-28 20:00 whitequark, I know that, but it's better to have a crashing X server rather than using Windows or Apple 2011-05-28 20:01 remember the time when he was an Apple fanboy... oh god 2011-05-28 20:01 Oh well, at least they have an open kernel :P 2011-05-28 20:03 yeah. and no one can ever compile that into something executable 2011-05-28 20:04