2011-05-21 06:06 good morning qiots 2011-05-21 06:09 morning fusin 2011-05-21 06:10 how do you get in to the "qiot" word btw? :-) 2011-05-21 06:11 slowly, much to much to do ;) 2011-05-21 06:12 mainly use gmu 2011-05-21 06:13 gmu is nice 2011-05-21 06:13 yep, but to be honest, I think buying Ben was an error 2011-05-21 06:13 (except of suporting the idea of course) 2011-05-21 06:14 yeah, why? 2011-05-21 06:14 for end users it is better to use android phones and tablets 2011-05-21 06:14 or good old psion S5 :D 2011-05-21 06:15 fusin: it depends of end-user requirements 2011-05-21 06:15 i really miss a road-map, like pE the roadmap @ ReactOS 2011-05-21 06:15 well, what is the goal of ben? 2011-05-21 06:16 device that powers and size, i can only see as PIM-Device, and little 'GameBoy' tool 2011-05-21 06:17 i like carry music on it 2011-05-21 06:17 no one would realy use it to programm or to make 'serious' wordprocessing or? 2011-05-21 06:17 also some comics ;-) 2011-05-21 06:17 well, indeed, gmu is my main appliance atm. And Sokoban :D 2011-05-21 06:18 ah, thats good, i dont see the bad poing of buing the nanonote if you get fun that way 2011-05-21 06:18 fusin: it's rare that a Ben buyer comes here and says it was an error! 2011-05-21 06:18 although I would estimate at least 30% of our buyers will feel like that after a week maybe... 2011-05-21 06:18 takes notes is good, i cant imagine run a wordprocessing software even if the sytem could handle all the processing 2011-05-21 06:18 not that I am proud of selling to those guys, the lower that number the better 2011-05-21 06:18 until they found JLime ;-)) 2011-05-21 06:19 wolfspraul: time to send the black ops ninjas ;-) 2011-05-21 06:19 if you compare with Android, or you think about 'end users', then of course I totally agree 2011-05-21 06:19 perhaps i should try JLime, but I think the main goal is still full open-source, isn't it?? 2011-05-21 06:20 fusin: jlime is fully open source 2011-05-21 06:20 yes try jlime, maybe you can try booting from sd first 2011-05-21 06:20 wolfspraul: why should i think other way? isn't ben not meant to be used by 'End-Users'? 2011-05-21 06:20 if not, why making a nice case? 2011-05-21 06:20 for development a naked board, with all connectors accesible is more accurate.. 2011-05-21 06:21 it is [end-users], but today it needs to be an end user that cares a lot about free software 2011-05-21 06:21 i dont see comparison with android, remenbering this is a multipurpose OS 2011-05-21 06:22 remenber this little computer was a dictionary, now i can do more than that 2011-05-21 06:23 kristianpaul:  i not realy compare with Android, But from an End-Users view, i must. Coz what does interest an End user? the device has to do something well. For now, the only real usefull is Music-Player. For that money, there are cheaper players Outside. Ben will never be able to compete there. 2011-05-21 06:24 I think there is a need to position Ben somewhere. Even if it is a 'niche' 2011-05-21 06:24 fusin: oh, sure i agree with turnkey solutions, something the ben is not now in the software side 2011-05-21 06:27 i gues, making an good calculator, which run graphicaly could help 2011-05-21 06:29 also a gui for DGClock which fits with the Gui from Gmenu. 2011-05-21 06:29 stuff like that :D 2011-05-21 06:30 you really should try Jlime, 2011-05-21 06:30 from sd is nice, indeed 2011-05-21 06:31 fusin: I see you think in practial small steps (DGClock gui), that's good :-) 2011-05-21 06:31 practical 2011-05-21 06:31 I will try someday, altough I didn't like it on my HP Jornada 568 :P 2011-05-21 06:31 fusin: you just haven't found your use for Ben (yet) 2011-05-21 06:31 one thing to keep in mind is that the current Android and iDevice mania is sucking up a lot of available software development time 2011-05-21 06:32 kyak:  right, but i fully support the idea behind :-D 2011-05-21 06:32 my feeling is there are maybe a few hundred free software devs left worldwide working on non-Android/non-iphone mobile software 2011-05-21 06:32 (I'm exaggerating, just to make my point) 2011-05-21 06:32 so there are many cute little clients one _could_ write for the Ben 2011-05-21 06:32 in sdl, in qt, in ncurses even 2011-05-21 06:32 we have a bunch of interesting scripting languages 2011-05-21 06:33 android hit something that for mobile i *think* is important, having a SDK is esential 2011-05-21 06:33 UI unification. 2011-05-21 06:33 but progress is very very slow because like I said for mobile devices with small screens, everybody and their grandmother are on Android or iPhone/iPad right now 2011-05-21 06:33 etc.. 2011-05-21 06:33 oh I'm not worried at all about this, I'm just describing how I see things 2011-05-21 06:33 wolfspraul:  yep, I agree, and this brings up my second wish: where should a newbie start? there's no place with FAQ and or How To install and start develop for Ben. 2011-05-21 06:33 sure, i can imagine you dont :-) 2011-05-21 06:34 and why 'little' things like a dictionary app, an openstreetmap client, some music browsers and download clients for popular free music sites etc. are so slow coming together 2011-05-21 06:34 Maybe a dedicated Forum, and a Site with background info for the newbies? 2011-05-21 06:35 the only thing I can do is to focus my extremely limited resources on the kernel, the build system, even u-boot 2011-05-21 06:35 and endure the laughs about application failure compared to Android or iAnything 2011-05-21 06:35 kristianpaul: right: UI unification is important. Why have SDL/QT etc. Use one of them, but then everywhere. 2011-05-21 06:35 eventually (tm) we have the right mix and it will take off... 2011-05-21 06:38 in my eyes (it's not meant as flame) the port of 'sc' to Ben was only usefull for the programmer. It's only a proof that it can be done. No one really will ever use sc on ben, isn't it? 2011-05-21 06:39 did even somebody use sc on linux??? ;) 2011-05-21 06:40 i did once 2011-05-21 06:40 yeah, me too, on an old 386 in the beginning 2011-05-21 06:40 but dint find dec to binaty convertion 2011-05-21 06:40 binary* 2011-05-21 06:40 once I had X11 running, i never used it seriously :D 2011-05-21 06:42 phew 20°C is getting "cold" here 2011-05-21 06:42 maybe sounds crazy, but I compare Ben with good old C64. Alas I miss Basic :D 2011-05-21 07:52 xMff: may i ask you to have a look at https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/9442, there is a patch that enables cxx bindings and makes installation of ncurses headers more correct 2011-05-21 07:55 writing it from centerim5/libpurple running on Ben :) 2011-05-21 08:14 never runs on Ben, I'm to heavy weight for that lill' case :D 2011-05-21 09:21 fusin: I really use sc on Ben. And quite often (for trancking my expenses, for example) 2011-05-21 10:49 morning qiots :p 2011-05-21 10:53 morning :-) 2011-05-21 11:16 qiots is copylefted :P 2011-05-21 12:12 wolfspraul: btw, do you know if getting slashdotted increased ben/ubb sales at tuxbrain ? 2011-05-21 12:20 if not, i'll ask victor. he seems to be in a communicative mood ;-) 2011-05-21 12:23 wpwrak: for sure that will increase ben sales at tuxbrain 2011-05-21 12:23 I had 10-15 I think, so from past data I'd say Tuxbrain maybe similar 2011-05-21 12:24 ah, getting closer to cracking the next 100 then :) 2011-05-21 12:29 the estimation time frame is about 1 week ? or is the sales tail longer ? 2011-05-21 12:29 s/time frame/interval/ # better :) 2011-05-21 12:29 coffe time... 2011-05-21 12:30 s/coffe/coffee 2011-05-21 12:43 one week sounds about right, yes 2011-05-21 13:02 hello everyone 2011-05-21 13:17 hi v 2011-05-21 13:18 vladkorotnev* 2011-05-21 13:18 Your nanonote finally arrive? 2011-05-21 13:18 kristianpaul: hi 2011-05-21 13:18 vladkorotnev: hi 2011-05-21 13:19 I am going to reboot once more, see ya soon :P 2011-05-21 13:23 I'm here :P 2011-05-21 13:34 xiangfu: hmm, didn't you make an avrdude package once ? i found this one: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/packages/NanoNote/Ben/latest/avrdude_5.8-1_xburst.ipk 2011-05-21 13:34 xiangfu: but that's an old version, without all the ben-specific changes 2011-05-21 13:35 wpwrak: the 'latest' packages is release with last release 2011-02-23. 2011-05-21 13:36 wpwrak: the avrdude with ben-specific will release in next packages. 2011-05-21 13:36 there is one in my temp folder: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/packages/avrdude_5.10-2_xburst.ipk 2011-05-21 13:36 ah, i see. thanks ! lemme check it ... 2011-05-21 13:37 vladkorotnev: did you get your NanoNote yet? 2011-05-21 13:38 wolfspraul: not yet :( 2011-05-21 13:38 ok, no surprise, that shipping method is a bit slow - be patient 2011-05-21 13:40 wolfspraul: turtle express parcels ? ;-) 2011-05-21 13:41 wpwrak: It's on Russian customs. So the speed will always be the same :P 2011-05-21 13:41 vladkorotnev: oh, customs ... :( 2011-05-21 13:43 the scourge of the globalized consumer 2011-05-21 13:45 ERROR:Map:258 - A problem was encountered attempting to get the license for this architecture. arghh! 2011-05-21 13:54 xiangfu: works ! :) 2011-05-21 14:00 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: avrdude: remove BROKEN http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/bfff7c1 2011-05-21 14:01 wpwrak: just check if buildhost create the avrdude package. I found I forget remove the BROKEN. 2011-05-21 17:10 oh 2011-05-21 17:41 hello everyone :P 2011-05-21 20:31 I'm getting very non-confident about all of this smartphones and tablet sutffs 2011-05-21 20:32 What bothers me is Android and closed Firmware stuff 2011-05-21 20:35 lunavorax_mini, what do you mean by firmware? Android or the firmwares it contains like its wifi card firmware 2011-05-21 20:36 Sorry yes I got all mixed up. 2011-05-21 20:37 I mean that when I see a smartphone, I see a computer. And what I also see is that I can't load the OS I want in it but Android and often the outdated version the manufacturer built for it. 2011-05-21 20:46 lunavorax_mini, are you aware of replicant? 2011-05-21 20:47 GNUtoo, no 2011-05-21 20:47 it's a 100% free android, altough: 2011-05-21 20:47 *wifi and bluetooth depend on non-free firmware that are not redistributable 2011-05-21 20:48 *the supported phones are unfortunately possibly spied by the modem 2011-05-21 20:48 GNUtoo, http://replicant.us/ I suppose ? 2011-05-21 20:48 so we'll move to other phones I think 2011-05-21 20:48 yes 2011-05-21 20:49 Interesting, thanks for the link GNUtoo 2011-05-21 20:49 I made a talking about it at college 2011-05-21 20:49 ok, abuot smartphones freedom issues? 2011-05-21 20:50 I came to the conclusion that smartphones where "locked ready-to-throw-away computers" which is really sad 2011-05-21 20:50 not all phones are locked 2011-05-21 20:50 for instance: 2011-05-21 20:50 Not all phones of course but a lot of them are. 2011-05-21 20:50 *ADP1,nexus one, nexus S, palm pre, nokia N900 etc.... 2011-05-21 20:51 a lot are unlocked in fact, not the majority of them tough 2011-05-21 21:16 just finished installing LMDE on my tiny eeePC 901 2011-05-21 21:17 *sh*t* wrong channel :) 2011-05-21 21:17 Hum ok GNUtoo 2011-05-21 21:18 hrhr 2011-05-21 21:18 Anyway, I don't have a smartphone... Not even a cellphone in fact :P 2011-05-21 21:18 lunavorax_mini, that's better 2011-05-21 21:18 lunavorax_mini, smartphones are spying devices 2011-05-21 21:18 even if you have a 100% free distro on it 2011-05-21 21:19 I do believe so 2011-05-21 21:20 They sure are attractive but everytime I always got to the conclusion "I'll have to switch to buy a faster one day to to use the latest apps" 2011-05-21 21:21 And then I dust off my old iTouch 2G and see all the "cool" apps in store... 2011-05-21 21:21 And, oh well, just shut it off again for the next 6months :) 2011-05-21 21:22 sell it before you earn no more money for it :P 2011-05-21 21:22 buy an additional ben from the earned money :D 2011-05-21 21:23 Fusin, at the beginning I bought it to develop on it... one day... maybe... 2011-05-21 21:23 develop for apple hardware?? 2011-05-21 21:23 only usefull if hardware is not newer than AppleII :D 2011-05-21 21:24 So far that was the best touchscreen device on the market imho. Maybe Android devices does good or better now. 2011-05-21 21:24 Yeah I should buy an Apple II on day also to see why people say it's so awesome. 2011-05-21 21:26 lunavorax_mini, better buying a non phone device 2011-05-21 21:27 I buyed an Apple II gs lately, and I love it 2011-05-21 21:27 but apple devices are spying too 2011-05-21 21:27 GNUtoo, That's what I was going to precise 2011-05-21 21:27 GNUtoo, also yeah 2011-05-21 21:28 Fusin, gotta find a good emulator first to try it then I'll buy one maybe. 2011-05-21 21:28 Fusin, for now I'm focused on receiving my first C64 from UK. 2011-05-21 21:28 maybe the pandora would be great if you remove the 3d and make your own image and don't use pnds 2011-05-21 21:29 pnds ? 2011-05-21 21:29 pandora packagews 2011-05-21 21:29 *packages 2011-05-21 21:29 usually they come without source 2011-05-21 21:29 or with a link to the source 2011-05-21 21:29 Whatever, I try to avoid using vapor-hardware... whoops, what did I said ? ;) 2011-05-21 21:30 it's real but hard to get 2011-05-21 21:30 I saw real people with real pandoras 2011-05-21 21:30 but it was just an examples 2011-05-21 21:30 That's what I meant indeed. 2011-05-21 21:30 there is the nanote too 2011-05-21 21:30 but you have wpan and no wifi 2011-05-21 21:30 I have my Ben for now it's cool. 2011-05-21 21:30 I'll make some stuff this summer if I don't get lazy. 2011-05-21 21:30 altough with people like werner, you have it pushed to its limits 2011-05-21 21:31 *wpan 2011-05-21 21:31 *vga adapter 2011-05-21 21:31 etc.... 2011-05-21 21:31 it just lacks wifi 2011-05-21 21:31 Yeah, I'll never be gratefull enough about what Werner have done so far. 2011-05-21 21:31 It's ok, I don't miss wifi. 2011-05-21 21:32 USB-Ethernet is ok, and mini-sd card slot for storage is too. 2011-05-21 21:32 Bed time ! 2011-05-21 21:32 See ya :)