2011-05-04 01:55 <kyak> wpwrak: http://www.spectec.com.tw/sdiovideooutcard.html
2011-05-04 01:55 <kyak> i see the word "patented", have you checked it?
2011-05-04 01:56 <kyak> having a look at spectec's products page, i must say that these guys have mastered the SDIO..
2011-05-04 01:57 <kyak> SDIO WiMAX, SDIO Bluetooth, how do you like that..
2011-05-04 02:07 <wolfspra1l> watch out, reality may be a different thing :-)
2011-05-04 02:07 <wolfspra1l> but we all like dreams, fairy tales, etc.
2011-05-04 02:07 <wolfspra1l> so why not :-)
2011-05-04 02:08 <wolfspra1l> the way I sell stuff is that I first make it, test it, make sure others agree with my assessment of what 'works', make sure it's in stock, make sure I have a reliable and equally tested shipping method, make sure I have a reliable and testing payment method, make sure another 100 things, and then sell it
2011-05-04 02:09 <wolfspra1l> now.. I'm not the most successful salesman in the world, so something may be wrong with my approach. but spectec, especially the website, doesn't work like this :-)
2011-05-04 02:10 <wolfspra1l> many oems use the web for marketing purposes
2011-05-04 02:10 <wolfspra1l> they put things there to assess demand
2011-05-04 02:10 <wolfspra1l> to confuse competitors
2011-05-04 02:10 <wolfspra1l> they put things there they know they cannot manufacture, but maybe a huge order comes in which would allow them a big investment to overcome the difficulties
2011-05-04 02:10 <wolfspra1l> they manufacture a small run, knowing that the economics (yield) can never support a large run
2011-05-04 02:11 <wolfspra1l> and so on
2011-05-04 02:11 <wolfspra1l> I don't even think this is necessary 'evil', as in Google evil, because that's how the entire oem/manufacturing industry works, so either one day you get it, or maybe you just don't want to know reality
2011-05-04 02:11 <wolfspra1l> and then it's a fairy tale, written just for you...
2011-05-04 02:12 <wolfspra1l> next time I'm in Taipei, I should go back to my Spectec friends, I always had good chats with them, they are very friendly and open
2011-05-04 02:15 <wolfspra1l> the reality at spectec is that they have maybe 2-3 products that are really a 'hit'
2011-05-04 02:15 <wolfspra1l> selling well, profitable, etc. something is right with them, maybe feature set, software quality, market demand
2011-05-04 02:15 <wolfspra1l> spectec may not even know exactly what it is
2011-05-04 02:16 <wolfspra1l> then they have another 20-30 let's say 'exploratory' products :-)
2011-05-04 02:16 <wolfspra1l> in various states of technical or economical dysfunction
2011-05-04 02:16 <wolfspra1l> and hopefully before the current cash cows dry up (for whatever maybe also unknown reason), a new cash cow emerges from those exploratory products...
2011-05-04 02:39 <kyak> wolfspra1l: the way you described it, i now feel pityfull for spectec :)
2011-05-04 02:39 <wolfspra1l> why that?
2011-05-04 02:39 <wolfspra1l> the web is used like that, that's all
2011-05-04 02:40 <wolfspra1l> I wrote all this without even going to spectec.com.tw :-)
2011-05-04 02:40 <wolfspra1l> spectec.com.tw != apple.com
2011-05-04 02:40 <wolfspra1l> or spectec.tw or whatever it is
2011-05-04 02:41 <wolfspra1l> I'm just explaining how I would translate their webpage
2011-05-04 02:41 <wolfspra1l> you are implying that the stuff there 'works', but you shouldn't
2011-05-04 02:41 <wolfspra1l> unless you like fairy tales
2011-05-04 02:41 <wolfspra1l> that's my point
2011-05-04 02:41 <rjeffries> wolfspra1l just noticed numeric "1"in your irc name
2011-05-04 02:41 <kyak> yeah, i got you
2011-05-04 02:42 <wolfspra1l> if you are interested in what works, you need to have an in-person meeting with someone from spectec sales
2011-05-04 02:42 <wolfspra1l> then you ask "what is really selling well?"
2011-05-04 02:42 <wolfspra1l> "what about those other products on the webpage?"
2011-05-04 02:42 <kyak> wolfspra1l: i had two sdw-823 in my life, none of them worked, so i can say :)
2011-05-04 02:42 <wolfspra1l> "what else are you working on that's not on the webpage?"
2011-05-04 02:42 <wolfspra1l> the webpage is just a starting point/background noise for the conversation :-)
2011-05-04 02:43 <wolfspra1l> kyak: the second one also didn't work?
2011-05-04 02:43 <kyak> nope -\
2011-05-04 02:43 <wolfspra1l> in which way? I think most people who had one go them to work, quite well actually
2011-05-04 02:44 <wolfspra1l> is it the card, or something in the software stack/application?
2011-05-04 02:44 <kyak> i can't figure out
2011-05-04 02:44 <kyak> the driver seems to work fine
2011-05-04 02:44 <kyak> i.e. there is the new interface
2011-05-04 02:44 <wolfspra1l> are you always trying with the same access point (router)?
2011-05-04 02:44 <rjeffries> spectec.com.tw seems to not be a public web page
2011-05-04 02:45 <kyak> but "iwlist eth0 scanning" always returns "no data"
2011-05-04 02:45 <kyak> wolfspra1l: there are several access points in range, but they are not seen
2011-05-04 02:46 <kyak> i just built the latest ks7010 driver, where lars disabled messy printk's, but it still doesn't work
2011-05-04 02:46 <wolfspra1l> hmm, I see
2011-05-04 02:47 <kyak> i remember i was able to connect to WEP access point with my first card
2011-05-04 02:47 <wolfspra1l> since we are discussing spectec, the 823 was at least manufactured, I think a total of 3k maybe
2011-05-04 02:47 <kyak> but this time it doesn't work.. like there is nothing in the air
2011-05-04 02:47 <wolfspra1l> no second run
2011-05-04 02:48 <kyak> that's strange btw, i would expect a greater demand for this product
2011-05-04 02:48 <wolfspra1l> many difficulties, first mechanical (the plastic comes off), then the upstream IC maker went out of business and discontinued the chip, SDIO was blocked in WinMobile due to operators request, severely decreasing market size
2011-05-04 02:49 <wolfspra1l> also some problems with power consumption in some phones
2011-05-04 02:49 <wolfspra1l> talk is cheap, real life is entirely different
2011-05-04 02:49 <wolfspra1l> Spected tried, and they always do, so I like them. but this one was too tough.
2011-05-04 02:49 <wolfspra1l> Spectec
2011-05-04 02:50 <kyak> i see
2011-05-04 02:50 <kyak> blocking SDIO, too much freedom :)
2011-05-04 02:51 <wolfspra1l> it's precisely to stop products like sdio wifi
2011-05-04 02:51 <kyak> instead of decreasing of prices, operators fight like this..
2011-05-04 02:52 <wolfspra1l> ok I hope you still get some life out of your second 823
2011-05-04 02:52 <wolfspra1l> maybe one day... at least it came for free :-)
2011-05-04 02:52 <wolfspra1l> I have none left now, phew
2011-05-04 02:52 <wolfspra1l> wifi is such a distraction
2011-05-04 02:53 <wolfspra1l> very good decision to keep it out of the Ben, not try bundling/integrating, etc.
2011-05-04 02:53 <kyak> how many cards did you have from spectec?
2011-05-04 02:53 <wolfspra1l> we would have only raised expectations and decreased user satisfaction
2011-05-04 02:53 <wolfspra1l> back in the early days I bought 10 or 15 or so, and slowly gave them away
2011-05-04 02:54 <wolfspra1l> and I went to Spectec a few times, and to Tokyo once (where the IC was made)
2011-05-04 02:54 <wolfspra1l> good stuff
2011-05-04 02:54 <wolfspra1l> and the best was the decision to keep it out, ha
2011-05-04 02:54 <wolfspra1l> :-)
2011-05-04 02:56 <kyak> i still think that if only Ben had wireless connectivity, you would sell many more by now
2011-05-04 02:56 <kyak> maybe you could integrate that IC in Ben in the first place, that would've been the best decision
2011-05-04 02:58 <kyak> i'm trying to understand now the blinking LED status
2011-05-04 02:59 <kyak> it always blinks ~ once per second
2011-05-04 03:00 <wolfspra1l> yes but the problem is that we could not make it to work well
2011-05-04 03:00 <wolfspra1l> "if I had an ipad-like product it would sell very well"
2011-05-04 03:00 <wolfspra1l> great catch!
2011-05-04 03:00 <wolfspra1l> but also insanely stupid, especially if you cannot massage your mind to the next level after some time
2011-05-04 03:01 <wolfspra1l> so the reason I am very cautious about wifi until today is that I know a lot about it, and how hard it is to make work well
2011-05-04 03:01 <wolfspra1l> the question is not what I want, but what I think I can realistically pull off
2011-05-04 03:02 <wolfspra1l> looking back I'm very happy how we handled wifi on ben, very very happy
2011-05-04 03:02 <wolfspra1l> we did that all right, and the future is open, and we will have great wireless connectivity in due time
2011-05-04 03:04 <kyak> are you talking about atben/atusb?
2011-05-04 03:05 <wolfspra1l> sure, that's one nice step
2011-05-04 03:05 <wolfspra1l> also very hard to pull off, but is worth to focus our energy on, imo
2011-05-04 03:05 <wolfspra1l> makes me wonder how tuxbrain is doing there :-)
2011-05-04 03:05 <kyak> it is very nice, but then again it's more like a long USB cable
2011-05-04 03:06 <kyak> there is no atusb in the street or at work or in cafe
2011-05-04 03:06 <wolfspra1l> sure
2011-05-04 03:06 <kyak> :)
2011-05-04 03:07 <kyak> he must be very busy!
2011-05-04 03:08 <wolfspra1l> as for ben-wpan and street cafes, I can just tell you in general how I feel
2011-05-04 03:08 <wolfspra1l> sure I want to have a copyleft device that can have decentralized mesh ipv6 connectivity with the whole world
2011-05-04 03:08 <wolfspra1l> whether you are in the Gobi desert or downtown Manhattan
2011-05-04 03:08 <wolfspra1l> but well, sorry I'm no visionary enough, I cannot see right now how I can get there :-) or we even...
2011-05-04 03:09 <wolfspra1l> so since I cannot see the whole path, I may as well do the first step, and do that well
2011-05-04 03:09 <wolfspra1l> ben-wpan is a nice step, I feel good about it
2011-05-04 03:09 <wolfspra1l> it's a lot of work to pull off
2011-05-04 03:09 <wolfspra1l> hardware, software, logistics, etc.
2011-05-04 03:09 <wolfspra1l> and somehow i think after we made this step well, and are happy, we will know what 2nd step to take
2011-05-04 03:09 <wolfspra1l> :-)
2011-05-04 03:09 <wolfspra1l> but I don't know now
2011-05-04 03:10 <wolfspra1l> and I don't feel the urge to think about the 2nd step, now that the 1st step is so clear and looks enjoyable and doable
2011-05-04 03:11 <wolfspra1l> I leave that kind of talk to others...
2011-05-04 03:11 <wolfspra1l> :-)
2011-05-04 03:12 <wolfspra1l> lately I'm following some efforts to utilize white-space or unlicensed spectrum better, like that PAWS ietf group
2011-05-04 03:12 <wolfspra1l> is all super early, but at least it gets me thinking
2011-05-04 03:13 <kyak> i prefer having some kind of plan and thinking several steps ahead.. However, sometimes it's just moving in a darkness and your approach proves to be more reasonable
2011-05-04 03:13 <wolfspra1l> ok let's make a big plan then
2011-05-04 03:13 <wolfspra1l> 1. ben-wpan
2011-05-04 03:13 <wolfspra1l> 2. world domination
2011-05-04 03:13 <wolfspra1l> we leave out the steps in between, not fun to think about them now
2011-05-04 03:13 <wolfspra1l> deal?
2011-05-04 03:13 <kyak> there is something missing in between :)
2011-05-04 03:13 <kyak> hehe
2011-05-04 03:14 <wolfspra1l> did we discuss the eff open wireless movement/call here?
2011-05-04 03:14 <wolfspra1l> 10 years late I think, but not a bad thing of course. better late than never :-)
2011-05-04 03:15 <wolfspra1l> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/04/open-wireless-movement
2011-05-04 03:15 <kyak> never heard of that
2011-05-04 03:17 <kyak> "We need WiFi that is open and encrypted at the same time!" <- good point, actually
2011-05-04 03:18 <kyak> i would've opened my wifi long ago, if it was possible to keep its encryption at the same time
2011-05-04 03:19 <wolfspra1l> yes sure, but this kind of idea comes 10 years late
2011-05-04 03:19 <wolfspra1l> we, as in free software people, entirely and completely and irrevocably screwed that up
2011-05-04 03:19 <wolfspra1l> so seeing this kind of announcement by the EFF in 2011/04 also makes me laugh a little
2011-05-04 03:20 <kyak> better late than never they say
2011-05-04 03:20 <wolfspra1l> in fact the big thing that is being pushed into all routers now is exactly the opposite, called WPS
2011-05-04 03:20 <wolfspra1l> yes for sure, so let's hope they really speed up now on this
2011-05-04 03:20 <wolfspra1l> nice first step, they realized there may be a need for an 'open wireless movement'
2011-05-04 03:20 <wolfspra1l> gooooood! :-)
2011-05-04 03:21 <wolfspra1l> we should have realized this in the late 90's
2011-05-04 03:21 <kristianpaul> (10 years late), he, yeah :-)
2011-05-04 03:21 <wolfspra1l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Setup
2011-05-04 03:22 <wolfspra1l> at least after 10+ years of thinking, we came up with a nice headline for the press release
2011-05-04 03:22 <wolfspra1l> "open wireless movement" - cool!
2011-05-04 03:22 <wolfspra1l> if we continue like this maybe in 100 years we will actually have such a movement? :-)
2011-05-04 03:22 <wolfspra1l> that wps stuff is being pushed into routers for several years, and goes exactly in the opposite direction as the things proposed by the eff
2011-05-04 03:23 <wolfspra1l> in fact I have this nagging feeling that someone at the eff unwrapped a new router, found out about 'wps', didn't like it, and wrote an angry 'call for open wireless movement' letter
2011-05-04 03:23 <wolfspra1l> but no. it must be better than this. surely/hopefully.
2011-05-04 03:23 <kyak> actually, i think that the number of wifi spots is decreasing in the last few year (though it's not related to openness). I remember it was problematic to find a cafe with wifi when i was in Frankfurt last year.. Perhaps mcdonalds is the only place that has both free wifi and toilets :)
2011-05-04 03:24 <wolfspra1l> sure
2011-05-04 03:24 <wolfspra1l> wifi is done
2011-05-04 03:24 <wolfspra1l> it's a home technology, and wps will seal that off nicely too
2011-05-04 03:24 <wolfspra1l> this all has been settled years ago
2011-05-04 03:24 <wolfspra1l> if you need wireless data now, you have 3g
2011-05-04 03:25 <kyak> yeah, we have it.. but it's somewhat expensive
2011-05-04 03:25 <kyak> especially when you are abroad
2011-05-04 03:25 <wolfspra1l> I'm one of those guys roaming around to find free wifi, I feel old/left-behind :-)
2011-05-04 03:25 <wolfspra1l> like I said - that train has left, we completely and fully screwed it. so the next thing must be something else, done right from day 1.
2011-05-04 03:26 <wolfspra1l> and no, I don't expect a global movement of ben-wpan cafes
2011-05-04 03:26 <wolfspra1l> but we'll find something :-)
2011-05-04 05:01 <wpwrak> kyak: ah, it's patented. so it must be good ;-))
2011-05-04 05:13 <kyak> wpwrak: indeed :))
2011-05-04 05:18 <wpwrak> "Full-color (YUV 4:2:2) 1024 x 768". okay, they have twice the number of bits ubb-vga gets with a few resistors :)
2011-05-04 07:12 <wpwrak> ah, interesting. tuxbrain already has the pcbs. operating in stealth mode ;-)
2011-05-04 07:12 <wpwrak> (bare pcbs, not assembled yet)
2011-05-04 10:33 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: sorry I had to go offline last night
2011-05-04 10:33 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul posted a link to this battery hack http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Dc168_pic3.jpg
2011-05-04 10:33 <wolfspraul> and you asked something about a 'contraption' that I didn't understand
2011-05-04 10:34 <wolfspraul> maybe your question is answered by looking at the other two pictures I uploaded
2011-05-04 10:34 <wolfspraul> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Dc168_pic2.jpg
2011-05-04 10:34 <wolfspraul> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Dc168-12v-battery.jpg
2011-05-04 10:37 <wolfspraul> for completeness - I forgot to take a picture before I took the simple casing around the whole thing apart, it looked roughly like this http://www.dinodirect.com/rechargeable-lithium-battery-12v-4800ma-cctv-camera-d-12480.html
2011-05-04 10:37 <wolfspraul> that's an even bigger version, maybe more cells or bigger cells. I should buy one and cut it open too :-)
2011-05-04 10:38 <wolfspraul> the casing was made out of thing cardboard plus a blue tape around that
2011-05-04 10:38 <wolfspraul> thin cardboard
2011-05-04 13:41 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (battery) wow, amazing. it is really that simple :) i wonder how long it lasts
2011-05-04 13:41 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (casing) excellent. at least they're consistently cheap ;-)
2011-05-04 14:35 <kristianpaul> gogps?...
2011-05-04 14:35 <kristianpaul> lets see
2011-05-04 14:36 <kristianpaul> oh, it uses RTK !!
2011-05-04 14:36 <kristianpaul> and seems active
2011-05-04 14:36 <kristianpaul> hopefully will be a better alternative to rtklib :)
2011-05-04 14:37 <kristianpaul> arggg, no, it is written in java and matlab,, how sweet that? ;)
2011-05-04 14:44 <wpwrak> be happy that it's not Mathematics and Fortran ;)
2011-05-04 14:45 <wpwrak> s/Mathematics/Mathematica/
2011-05-04 15:51 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: please tell wolfgang about issues with load balancing in LiIon (or - for that topic - any secondary) batteries in series
2011-05-04 15:52 <DocScrutinizer> may go pooof on first complete discharge, as one of the cells will get reverse charge before the others are empty
2011-05-04 15:52 <DocScrutinizer> charging same issue
2011-05-04 15:52 <DocScrutinizer> weakest cell gets overcharge and thus gets even weaker
2011-05-04 15:53 <DocScrutinizer> serializing LiIon without active load balancing is a sure way to wreck things
2011-05-04 15:54 <roh> well. there are chips for that
2011-05-04 15:55 <DocScrutinizer> and keeping protective circuit on each cell doesn't really help (consider cutout due to overvoltage during charge, which will cause full charge voltage across that circuit)
2011-05-04 15:55 <DocScrutinizer> roh: look at this: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Dc168_pic2.jpg
2011-05-04 15:55 <roh> urgh.
2011-05-04 15:55 <DocScrutinizer> yeah :-S
2011-05-04 15:55 <roh> somebody doing stupid things voiding all warranties and insurances
2011-05-04 15:56 <DocScrutinizer> begging for boom
2011-05-04 15:56 <roh> well.. on discharging it could be ok. on charging it will go boom
2011-05-04 15:57 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, ruin weak cell on discharge, make it blow on next charge
2011-05-04 15:58 <roh> overcurrent/undervoltage should have a working cut-off even with 3 bms chips(if there were any)
2011-05-04 15:59 <roh> ive seen too many bms-less batterys already... cheap chinese clones burning down houses.
2011-05-04 16:01 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?262234-TK-Monster-Explosion&s=3bd8b08241a23249dba5893049dc93f9
2011-05-04 16:05 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: cute. a weaponized flashlight :)
2011-05-04 16:06 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
2011-05-04 16:06 <DocScrutinizer> tube bomb grenade - don't mess with LiIon unless you're sure what you're doing
2011-05-04 16:06 <DocScrutinizer> pipe bomb actually
2011-05-04 16:07 <DocScrutinizer> hell that critter easily can kill ya
2011-05-04 16:09 <DocScrutinizer> and I just mention as a sidenote my appartment that burned down probably because of a battery defect as well (though presumably in NiCd)
2011-05-04 16:10 <DocScrutinizer> wolfgang should remember how my face looked when I first visited TPE
2011-05-04 16:16 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: so you put on an appropriately warlike look ;-)
2011-05-04 16:17 <roh> DocScrutinizer: got a photo from then? i know some good meme-artists *veg*
2011-05-04 16:17 <DocScrutinizer> I probably scared half TPE crew to death
2011-05-04 16:17 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: did you wear black ?
2011-05-04 16:17 <DocScrutinizer> I actually got photos from the day before I left to TPE, but those are NDA
2011-05-04 16:17 <DocScrutinizer> sure, I always wear black
2011-05-04 16:18 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: very good. scythe ? :-)
2011-05-04 16:18 <roh> DocScrutinizer: they were easily scared anyhow. i still remember how weird and uncomfy the room was feeling when i had a 'meeting' with the sw and hw crews
2011-05-04 16:18 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
2011-05-04 16:18 <wpwrak> roh: oh, take them for a few beers every now and then and they loosen up :)
2011-05-04 16:19 <DocScrutinizer> if they dare to join
2011-05-04 16:19 <roh> 5 or 6 engineers in tpe, and they were scared by me... atleast that was what i was feeling that moment.. very weird. then i sent sean and harald out of the room by just using eye-contact... which didnt make it better *sigh
2011-05-04 16:19 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
2011-05-04 16:19 <DocScrutinizer> rotfl
2011-05-04 16:19 <DocScrutinizer> I *see* it
2011-05-04 16:19 <roh> wpwrak: while walking out sean gave me some money and i took the guys out for lunch.. on the way back it was MUCH better with them. they were really anctious.
2011-05-04 16:20 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: oh they do. on the day of the great announcement, i went to 7-11, brought a few cans of beer to the office, and we had a little stick-your-middle-finger-up drinking session at soon-to-be-former-work :)
2011-05-04 16:21 <DocScrutinizer> oh there been several great announcements
2011-05-04 16:21 <roh> still funny when thinking bout it. i just thought they will never talk freely while harald and sean stayed in that room. about the message which came along by sending them out... i didnt think enough
2011-05-04 16:21 <DocScrutinizer> My greatest one was when I resigned
2011-05-04 16:21 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: the one about the u-turn
2011-05-04 16:22 <DocScrutinizer> still lost
2011-05-04 16:22 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: when gta03 was cancelled and half the people laid off
2011-05-04 16:22 <roh> i should have taken that plastic-vodka-bottle 'spiegelflasche' with me.
2011-05-04 16:22 <DocScrutinizer> u-turn in gta03?
2011-05-04 16:23 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: u-turn of the company
2011-05-04 16:23 <DocScrutinizer> that's been when I already was in retirement
2011-05-04 16:23 <DocScrutinizer> almost, or actually
2011-05-04 16:24 <roh>  .oO(i wish i could retire too)
2011-05-04 16:24 <DocScrutinizer> I think we planned to meet in TPE, and then I've been told I can cancel my ticket
2011-05-04 16:26 <DocScrutinizer> I'm just curious waiting for trisoft's book about the whole OM story ;-D
2011-05-04 16:27 <wpwrak> trisoft ?
2011-05-04 16:27 <roh> book?
2011-05-04 16:27 <DocScrutinizer> the first german reseller
2011-05-04 16:27 <wpwrak> aah.
2011-05-04 16:28 <roh> well.. on the other side.. without om we wouldnt have so many develkits for osmocom-bb
2011-05-04 16:28 <roh> well.. only those from motorola/compal then
2011-05-04 16:28 <roh> ;)
2011-05-04 16:30 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-04-29 21:33:56] <TRIsoft> Aber dann hab ich zumindest schonmal zwei Leute, die mein Buch kaufen :D
2011-05-04 16:30 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-04-29 21:34:18] <TRIsoft> Da ist dann viel Sex, Drugs, aber nur wenig Rock'n'Roll drin :-)
2011-05-04 16:33 <DocScrutinizer> according to TRIsoft's tales there's been a not exactly helping "new investor" sometime in dec/jan and that caused the final u-turn
2011-05-04 16:33 <DocScrutinizer> I cloudy recall similar info directly from/still-in TPE
2011-05-04 16:34 <larsc> and this investor was sponsored by mircosoft?
2011-05-04 16:34 <DocScrutinizer> prolly, or by HTC or whomever ;-D
2011-05-04 16:35 <DocScrutinizer> investors always been kinda top secret stuff
2011-05-04 16:35 <DocScrutinizer> so I dunno
2011-05-04 16:35 <larsc> i see
2011-05-04 16:36 <DocScrutinizer> FIC and it's owner been an obvious initial VC-source
2011-05-04 16:37 <DocScrutinizer> TRIsoft seems to know a lot more
2011-05-04 16:37 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I'm waiting for the book
2011-05-04 16:38 <DocScrutinizer> wolfgang of course also knows all the gory details, but I think he doesn't like to talk about it
2011-05-04 16:41 <DocScrutinizer> all I can tell is it went from "if you think we need that 20k$ device, fly over to HK and get it" in december, to "sorry you're too expensive" in January
2011-05-04 16:44 <DocScrutinizer> BTW with a week time and that friggin CMU200 I'd actually also been able to spot the #1024
2011-05-04 16:45 <DocScrutinizer> but as andy always said: our brain is our best analyzing tool, so we spotted #1024 without cmu200
2011-05-04 16:55 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, the last two lines probably sounded a bit unlinked - the 20k$ device: http://www2.rohde-schwarz.com/product/cmu200.html
2011-05-04 16:56 <DocScrutinizer> a used one of course, new ones are ten times that price
2011-05-04 17:00 <wpwrak> i was just about to comment on that price ;-)
2011-05-04 17:03 <DocScrutinizer> I'd have bought it if it hadn't been a slow version not capable of upgrading to 3G
2011-05-04 17:07 <DocScrutinizer> R&S CMU200 ¬7,500 - Vollständig getestet mit Garantie. ->http://www.google.de/search?q=cmu200&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
2011-05-04 17:17 <wpwrak> if a device that normally costs 200k is sold for 7.5k, that usually means that it's broken, stolen, or that they never intend to ship it ;-)
2011-05-04 17:17 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga: added draft for "productized" design http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6f5a8cc
2011-05-04 17:17 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga: added draft of "productized" assembly http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/3b4f72d
2011-05-04 17:18 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga/Makefile (vga-ben-back.png): also generate the PCB back side image http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6c3adaf
2011-05-04 17:18 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: ack, or it's hopelessly obsolete and probably stripped down on optional modules
2011-05-04 17:21 <wpwrak> maybe it's just the packaging material ;-)
2011-05-04 17:21 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: at least on R&S you can get the ser#, call R&S service, and get full specs and history of the particular device. That's what I did for the 20k$ units from HK, and R&S told me they can't get upgraded to 3G as the "PC" inside was too lame
2011-05-04 17:21 <wpwrak> and the warranty certificate :)
2011-05-04 17:22 <wpwrak> ah well. maybe get a few USRPs and hack a CMU200 equivalent yourself :)
2011-05-04 17:24 <DocScrutinizer> woohoo, your bitbanged CVBS? ( commit^^^)
2011-05-04 17:26 <wpwrak> it's vga. don't you read the list ?
2011-05-04 17:26 <DocScrutinizer> not really
2011-05-04 17:27 <larsc> wpwrak: btw, you should really make that a kernel driver
2011-05-04 17:27 <DocScrutinizer> too many lists, too much noise, no proper filters (got no secretary ;-D)
2011-05-04 17:28 <DocScrutinizer> of course VGA, dunno why I slipped to CVBS
2011-05-04 17:29 <DocScrutinizer> well, probably creating CVBS from that output would simplify a lot of things - half pixelclock
2011-05-04 17:29 <wpwrak> larsc: i thought you'd say that ;-)
2011-05-04 17:30 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
2011-05-04 17:30 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: well, here are the pictures: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/
2011-05-04 17:30 <DocScrutinizer> seen them I think
2011-05-04 17:30 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: for a description of what exactly they show, you have to read the list ;)
2011-05-04 17:31 <larsc> wpwrak: btw. you can do pretty nasty stuff with the dma.
2011-05-04 17:31 <larsc> for example you can use dma to start a dma transfer
2011-05-04 17:32 <larsc> in your case a timer triggered dma transfer which starts the mmc dma might get you improved precision
2011-05-04 17:34 <wpwrak> i'm not sure i can use a timer to start dma in this case. that would mean making the timer the dma "source". but then i'd lose the flow control of the mmc controller.
2011-05-04 17:34 <larsc> no
2011-05-04 17:34 <larsc> you use two dma channels
2011-05-04 17:34 <larsc> one for the timer
2011-05-04 17:34 <larsc> one for dma
2011-05-04 17:34 <DocScrutinizer> wow, how hackerish
2011-05-04 17:34 <wpwrak> so how would one channel start the other ?
2011-05-04 17:34 <DocScrutinizer> set dma ctrl regs via dma
2011-05-04 17:34 <larsc> the timer based dma just writes to dma control registers to start the mmc dma
2011-05-04 17:35 <wpwrak> oh ;-)
2011-05-04 17:35 <larsc> in theory you could put all your register access in one big dma chain and keep it running without having to use the cpu
2011-05-04 17:36 <DocScrutinizer> larsc: I feel familiar with your thinking, and I like it :-D
2011-05-04 17:37 <DocScrutinizer> that's exactly what the "...and synergy" attribute in my "title" refers to
2011-05-04 17:37 <wpwrak> interesting idea. i wonder what bus access latency does to it, though. but interesting nevertheless :)
2011-05-04 17:47 <larsc> looking at your code it should be pretty straight forward to turn it into a scatter gather dma 'program'
2011-05-04 17:48 <larsc> the dma controller can be thought of as a microprocessor which only knows read, write and jump
2011-05-04 17:48 <larsc> if you combin this with self-modifing code you can do interesting things
2011-05-04 17:53 <kristianpaul> :o
2011-05-04 18:00 <wpwrak> larsc: you have a dirty mind ;-) well, the first step would be to find out how badly dma latency is. that may be a problem. with the mmc controller, i give the dma a lot of time to move the initial data into the fifo, and it seems that it still sometimes just barely manages
2011-05-04 18:01 <wpwrak> larsc: the cpu is easier to handle once all my code is in the cache
2011-05-04 18:02 <wpwrak> larsc: i'm also not sure if all kinds of dma transfers can write to internal registers. the manual explicitly says that some transfers are with external memory, so that could mean that you couldn't use them with registers. of course, the manual often misleads, so ...
2011-05-04 18:11 <larsc> hm
2011-05-04 18:25 <DocScrutinizer> coffee - FINALLY :-)))
2011-05-04 18:26 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: all these years of research in the mad scientist's alchemy lab finally paying off ? ;-)
2011-05-04 18:26 <DocScrutinizer> nah, just managed to move my lazy ass to the shop the get milk, alas second grade quality ESL shit only
2011-05-04 18:28 <DocScrutinizer> the "expect shit, loser" errr extended shelf life cooked-to-death milk
2011-05-04 18:34 <wpwrak> buy a cow then ;-)
2011-05-04 18:36 <larsc> had fresh milk each day for the last week 
2011-05-04 18:37 <wpwrak> went to a farm ? :)
2011-05-04 18:37 <larsc> stayed with my family which has a farm
2011-05-04 18:37 <kristianpaul> nice :-)
2011-05-04 18:37 <fossrox_> cool :)
2011-05-04 18:38 <kristianpaul> my grandma also bringme coe milk from time to time :-)
2011-05-04 18:38 <kristianpaul> i need to learn hwo to do cheese btw..
2011-05-04 18:38 <kristianpaul> may be larsc already know? :)
2011-05-04 18:39 <larsc> well in theory
2011-05-04 18:39 <larsc> but i doubt it would taste well if applied to practice
2011-05-04 18:42 <wpwrak> exercise some different hacking kills :)
2011-05-04 18:53 <DocScrutinizer> first kill a cow and get the rennin
2011-05-04 18:54 <DocScrutinizer> killing cows, that's truly new hacker skills ;-D
2011-05-04 18:54 <kristianpaul> strongly disagree
2011-05-04 18:55 <larsc> fortunately for the cows i don't eat any meat
2011-05-04 18:57 <DocScrutinizer> well, hope you also don't wear anything made of leather?
2011-05-04 18:57 <DocScrutinizer> just plastic soles made of oil which basically is mio-year old dead fish ;-P
2011-05-04 18:58 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: do you eat your clothes often ? :)
2011-05-04 18:58 <DocScrutinizer> only occasionally :-D
2011-05-04 18:59 <DocScrutinizer> some milk brands taste like made of old clothes
2011-05-04 19:00 <DocScrutinizer> dunno what this stuff really is made from
2011-05-04 19:01 <wpwrak> ground cow bones and sea water ?
2011-05-04 19:02 <DocScrutinizer> prolly
2011-05-04 19:02 <DocScrutinizer> any of you know where on this world this phoneme transcription is used: RESUME(3)   R EH Z AH M EY
2011-05-04 19:03 <DocScrutinizer> pidgin?
2011-05-04 19:09 <rjeffries> ristianpaul makine soft cheese is so easy. basically heat the milk to a certain temp, then stir in lemon juice. it will curdle (get lumpy) and then you strain through strainer of "cheesecloth" add salt. it is delightful
2011-05-04 19:10 <DocScrutinizer> hmmm
2011-05-04 19:10 <kristianpaul> hive five larsc 
2011-05-04 19:10 <rjeffries> wolfspra1l have been reading your comments suggetsing wifi is not important. not sure why you have that opinion
2011-05-04 19:11 <rjeffries> as to wifi being too hard, virtually every current generation smartphone supportw wifi, and does so rather well.
2011-05-04 19:11 <roh> re
2011-05-04 19:12 <rjeffries> ATben/ATusb are great stuff, but do not provide ubiquitous connectivity. thus they are not a single-ended solution, y
2011-05-04 19:15 <rjeffries> but Iagree that ship has sailed, that train left the station. if next-ben does not offer a reasonably priced wifi connectivity option (can be plug in, via USB) then you miss any chance at a large enough market opportunity to be relevant
2011-05-04 19:19 <DocScrutinizer> rjeffries: regarding this point I'm quite on same page
2011-05-04 19:21 <DocScrutinizer> on topic of USB-plugin: I considered quite some time to get me the TI zoom-II, even to retrofit 3G mdule myself when they declared it pre-birth EOL due to RoHS, and I stopped tinking about that immediately when I had to learn the SD card protrudes from the case some 5..10mm
2011-05-04 19:25 <DocScrutinizer> so USB plugin for WLAN is fine only when the USB receptacle is in a bay so nothing can break when stashing the device in your pocket
2011-05-04 19:27 <DocScrutinizer> or you go the way I planned for gta04: have two latch holes and fixing threads left and right of USB receptacle, so you can durably *mount* and extender designed to fit to original case
2011-05-04 19:57 <rjeffries> DocScrutinizer although full size USB connector is bulky for a small device, to my knowledge none of the interesting add-ons such as wifi are offered with the micro USB or MiniUSB connector.
2011-05-04 19:59 <DocScrutinizer> sure not, as micro/mini-USB not even today is meant for a host with full capabilities. Best you can get is micro-AB-F which is supposed to support OTG and so wouldn't supply enough power per se for a wkan dongle
2011-05-04 19:59 <rjeffries> since sharism does not own tooling for current Ben case, to my mind a next gen Ben can and should use a new physical design for enclosure.
2011-05-04 20:00 <rjeffries> my "dream" next gen dev board (as precusror to something packaged in a slick fashion, would have full size USB.
2011-05-04 20:19 <DocScrutinizer> muhaha now I know here in Germany we also got *brillint* engineers. Our railway refurbished an old bridge, now that they wanted to reopen it they noticed they can only use trains without passengers as they forgot those passengers weight when doing the official paperwork so the bridge isn't certified for it.
2011-05-04 20:20 <DocScrutinizer> a few days later they noticed they can't use the bridge at all, as they used the weight of an empty waggon for cert, but forgot about the engine
2011-05-04 20:21 <DocScrutinizer> damn I wish they gave me 1% of what this BS will cost them, to check their planning and calculations
2011-05-04 20:21 <Jay7> DocScrutinizer: :)))
2011-05-04 21:26 <lekernel> DocScrutinizer: haha, the Deutsche Bahn are champions anyway. their train reservation and pricing systems is a joke, too. and there was this mess 2 years ago in Berlin with the s-bahn wheels using crappy steel which began to get cracks in them
2011-05-04 21:26 <lekernel> now I have learned and always take the car in Germany
2011-05-04 21:47 <wpwrak> rjeffries: (usb) i agree with full size for a host port. that's what you need in the end anyway, so anything different just means that you have to carry a cable
2011-05-04 21:49 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: (bridge) nice ;-) i suppose they could still push the wagons without engine, as they do or used to do when composing trains, no ? or maybe just detach the machine and get a few horses ;-)