2011-04-28 00:47 <rozzin> Is anyone selling spare batteries for Ben?
2011-04-28 01:49 <jlamothe> Does anyone know what would cause the HCl/H2O2 solution I prepared for etching PCBs to lose potency?  I'm quite certain it hasn't been saturated with copper yet (it's still light green).
2011-04-28 01:50 <jlamothe> It worked just great a couple weeks ago when I first used it.
2011-04-28 01:51 <jlamothe> The board I have in there now has been sitting for close to an hour and barely anything's happened to it.
2011-04-28 01:53 <wpwrak> jlamothe: that's loss of oxygen. the peroxide doesn't hold it very well.
2011-04-28 01:54 <jlamothe> I'll try adding a little peroxide...
2011-04-28 01:54 <wpwrak> jlamothe: you can make it work again by adding more peroxide, preferably some with a high concentration (the pharmacy stuff is very diluted, so you'll soon have too much water)
2011-04-28 01:58 <jlamothe> Yeah.  I was warned to avoid adding too much peroxide.  :/
2011-04-28 01:59 <jlamothe> I imagine you can get rid of some of the water by letting it evaporate, but you'd probably lose oxygen faster than the water.
2011-04-28 02:01 <wpwrak> yeah, and you probably lose Cl as well
2011-04-28 02:01 <jlamothe> Is there somewhere I can get more concentrated peroxideY
2011-04-28 02:01 <jlamothe> ?
2011-04-28 02:02 <wpwrak> evaporation is nice for disposal, though. just let the volatiles get out and throw away the crystals
2011-04-28 02:03 <jlamothe> I heard of someone who uses one of those air pumps for fish tanks instead of adding extra peroxide.  Wouldn't that damage the pump?
2011-04-28 02:03 <wpwrak> hmm. not sure what the word for this kind of shop is in english. similar to a pharmacy but less pharmaceutical yet not quite plain industrial :)
2011-04-28 02:04 <wpwrak> depends on whether the pump has any exposed metal. well, if it has some at the beginning ;-)
2011-04-28 05:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2.c: make frame buffer fully VGA-sized; more cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/625d987
2011-04-28 05:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: move image generation out of the main program http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/8643e45
2011-04-28 05:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: added test image generator (option -t) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/19f43a7
2011-04-28 05:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: added support for showing a PPM image http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/080978a
2011-04-28 05:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga/ppmimg.c (pattern): corrected the pattern for un-doubled pixels http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/f0eda51
2011-04-28 05:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: replaced threshold-based color mapping with color cube model http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6558f56
2011-04-28 08:30 <primary> On the qi-nanonote, with optimizing mplayer and such, is standard def (PAL/NTSC) playback possible?
2011-04-28 08:32 <primary> Oh cool, keyword search: "<dvdk> cool, with -ao alsa and increased audio buffer size, cpu load drops by another few percent, now NTSC material plays really well."
2011-04-28 08:32 <primary> even with mplayer, too
2011-04-28 09:58 <lekernel> milkymist one + camera => http://www.vimeo.com/22966103
2011-04-28 13:16 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga.pro: commit pcbnew preferences (from local layout experiments) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/c8f19a0
2011-04-28 13:16 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2.c: move display resolution to #defines http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/6414d92
2011-04-28 13:20 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: fyi, i've updated schhist_update_all and added ubb-vga: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/ubb-vga/
2011-04-28 13:20 <wolfspraul> great!
2011-04-28 13:21 <wolfspraul> I will update the doc
2011-04-28 13:22 <akiwiguy> Hmm. Ubuntu Unity is actually alright
2011-04-28 13:22 <akiwiguy> Dock is a total rip from OS X though
2011-04-28 13:23 <kyak> they should've called it Ubuntu OS X
2011-04-28 13:25 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: cool, thanks ! i haven't updated the entry page either (http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/). where would i find it / its origin, in case it's generated ?
2011-04-28 13:26 <wpwrak> kyak: oh apple, sue me harder ? :)
2011-04-28 13:27 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: it's just manually written index.html or .php on the server
2011-04-28 13:27 <kyak> wpwrak: fortunately, it seems that their lawyers are not as good as their marketing
2011-04-28 13:41 <wpwrak> kyak: more bark than bite ? that would be good :)
2011-04-28 14:57 <rejon> check this guys, wpwrak https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/04/open-wireless-movement
2011-04-28 15:41 <wpwrak> rejon: hmm. agreed on that networks should be open. i don't quite buy the link-layer encryption, though. that's more an integration issue, and since you already have others there (e.g., traffic control), why not just get rid of link-layer encryption ? (and accept the risk of traffic analysis)
2011-04-28 15:41 <rejon> totally
2011-04-28 15:41 <rejon> wpwrak how is buenos aires?
2011-04-28 15:42 <wpwrak> rejon: also, perhaps one of the main reasons why people don't open their networks is the fear of becoming a proxy target for law enforcement if someone does something bad over their connection
2011-04-28 15:43 <rejon> yeah
2011-04-28 15:43 <rejon> i think that is the main reason
2011-04-28 15:43 <rejon> esp. in europe
2011-04-28 15:43 <wpwrak> rejon: but that's a problem that needs to be solved by lawmakers, not by engineers. unfortunately.
2011-04-28 15:43 <rejon> noticed this in berlin is the issue
2011-04-28 15:43 <rejon> some cafe's were targeted
2011-04-28 15:44 <wpwrak> (buenos aires) sunny and warm today. winter still hasn't quite arrived yet.
2011-04-28 15:44 <wpwrak> in fact, a bit too sunny for my vga experiments ;-)
2011-04-28 15:45 <rejon> maybe i try to stop in there at end of june
2011-04-28 15:46 <rejon> i will speak at FISL in brazil
2011-04-28 15:49 <wpwrak> rejon: great ! hmm, i quite forgot about fisl as a potential target for showing off ben stuff.
2011-04-28 15:50 <rejon> you should come
2011-04-28 15:50 <rejon> if you want to speak, i can accelerate
2011-04-28 15:50 <rejon> my friend is organier
2011-04-28 15:50 <rejon> organizer
2011-04-28 15:51 <wpwrak> rejon: heh, lemme think about it :)
2011-04-28 15:53 <rejon> k
2011-04-28 15:53 <wpwrak> checking the other major local conference ... jornadas regionales ... they're a bit late, end of october. this time in salta. hmm, either a very long drive or a short flight.
2011-04-28 15:53 <rejon> i will speak about milkymist and copyleft hardware
2011-04-28 15:55 <wpwrak> nicely confusing: fisl12 = 2011 ;-)
2011-04-28 16:00 <wpwrak> "PUC Events Center" ... that would be "Pontifical Catholic University". good. that's in the city. they had it at least once at some large complex near the airport. that was nasty - half an hour taxi drive just to get there from the city.
2011-04-28 16:07 <wpwrak> rejon: (copyleft hw) how technical will you get ?
2011-04-28 16:08 <rejon> not very
2011-04-28 16:08 <rejon> you want to be techy man
2011-04-28 16:08 <rejon> could tag team
2011-04-28 16:08 <rejon> a 45 min to hour talk
2011-04-28 16:08 <rejon> i can handle the cheesy things, you can handle the tech
2011-04-28 16:09 <rejon> or we could do two separate ones
2011-04-28 16:09 <rejon> is fine
2011-04-28 16:09 <rejon> tag team
2011-04-28 16:09 <rejon> copyleft hardware
2011-04-28 16:09 <rejon> i want us to get into brazilian government
2011-04-28 16:09 <rejon> i have lots of contacts there
2011-04-28 16:09 <wpwrak> two is probably better - more coverage :)
2011-04-28 16:09 <rejon> yeah, sure wpwrak
2011-04-28 16:10 <rejon> brb
2011-04-28 16:17 <wpwrak> rejon: i could cover things like the typical project workflow, tools, and my set of gadgets (ubb, wpan, vga)
2011-04-28 16:21 <wpwrak> the "emergent topics" track would look appropriate
2011-04-28 16:28 <rejon> great
2011-04-28 16:29 <rejon> ok, can you make it?
2011-04-28 16:29 <rejon> i'll email them now if you want to
2011-04-28 16:35 <wpwrak> rejon: not so quick :) do you know what they expect speakers to provide ? they have a "call for papers" but it doesn't even mention papers :)
2011-04-28 16:36 <rejon> yah, they are chaotic
2011-04-28 16:36 <rejon> no need for a paper
2011-04-28 16:36 <rejon> just presentation
2011-04-28 16:36 <rejon> there are two paths: 1.) submit stuff or 2.) know people
2011-04-28 16:36 <rejon> i always rely upon #2
2011-04-28 16:36 <rejon> ha
2011-04-28 16:37 <rejon> usually i should say
2011-04-28 16:37 <wpwrak> a very south american approach ;-)
2011-04-28 16:39 <rejon> i'm fake chinese
2011-04-28 16:41 <wpwrak> but yes, reviews can sometimes be funny. i think on my first fisl, i sent them two or three proposals. one was about booting. that one got the lowest "competence" rating. i found that interesting :)
2011-04-28 16:41 <wpwrak> (chinese) ah yes, there too :)
2011-04-28 16:42 <rejon> ha
2011-04-28 16:42 <rejon> emailed
2011-04-28 17:24 <wpwrak> rejon: thanks ! sent a patch :)
2011-04-28 17:25 <wpwrak> rejon: and now i realize why i didn't think of FISL - they moved the date by about two months. in past years, it would have been just around now.
2011-04-28 17:26 <rejon> aha
2011-04-28 17:31 <kristianpaul> (brazil) hmm that remenber me i give away some mm1 stickers to some people from there at labsurlab, there was a guy very interested on mm1 visual effects related with video-in..
2011-04-28 17:32 <kristianpaul> i'll ping him and point rejon will be there doing live demostration?? ...:-)
2011-04-28 17:32 <wpwrak> rejon: do you plan to set up a permanent demo ?
2011-04-28 17:32 <rejon> sure
2011-04-28 17:33 <rejon> kristianpaul
2011-04-28 17:33 <rejon> yeah, we can probably get it set up for one of their night events
2011-04-28 17:33 <rejon> its a blast there
2011-04-28 17:33 <kristianpaul> hey rejon you also can talk with some people from fsfla Alexandre Oliva i think he always get invited to fisl too
2011-04-28 17:33 <wpwrak> rejon: okay, so you've been there already. then you know :)
2011-04-28 17:34 <kristianpaul> spare a own projector for mm1 is really needed i had troubles waiting to get free time to use one at lsl.. :/
2011-04-28 17:35 <Jay7> rejon: have you any responce from Richard or Tim?
2011-04-28 17:36 <rejon> Jay7 not yet
2011-04-28 17:36 <rejon> kristianpaul wpwrak any intros via email good
2011-04-28 17:36 <rejon> i'm going to try and meet with more people in brazil this trip
2011-04-28 17:37 <kristianpaul> okay why not
2011-04-28 17:38 <rejon> i don't have a projector
2011-04-28 17:38 <rejon> i need to pick one up like wolfspraul that fit in my mm1 case
2011-04-28 17:38 <kristianpaul> :o, you said wolspraul hacked mm1 case to fit a projector inside?
2011-04-28 17:39 <kristianpaul> ah, sorry, no i was reading backwards.. ;)
2011-04-28 17:39 <Jay7> rejon: say me projector model after ;)
2011-04-28 17:39 <wpwrak> rejon: maybe ask the organizers if they can lend you a large lcd screen. or refer you to one of the user groups who set up permanent stands.
2011-04-28 17:39 <rejon> ok
2011-04-28 17:39 <rejon> cool wpwrak please comment on that email
2011-04-28 17:39 <rejon> those friends are in charge of FISL
2011-04-28 17:40 <wpwrak> rejon: comment on what mail ?
2011-04-28 17:42 <rejon> the one i intr'd you to the FISL ppl
2011-04-28 17:42 <rejon> if you want those things
2011-04-28 17:44 <wpwrak> rejon: ah equipment ... no, i don't need any. but you would need some if you wanted to demo mm1 outside the talk
2011-04-28 17:44 <wpwrak> rejon: also, you'd want to have someone around to watch things for you
2011-04-28 17:45 <rejon> yeah
2011-04-28 17:45 <wpwrak> rejon: hence the idea of connecting with one of the user groups. they have their tables in a common room and are already taking care of making sure things don't grow legs. so you could share the infrastructure.
2011-04-28 17:45 <rejon> yeah, i have all my http://libregraphicsmeeting.org friends there...i bet they can help sort out
2011-04-28 17:46 <lekernel> haha, yeah, fitting a small led dlp projector into the m1 case could work
2011-04-28 17:46 <wpwrak> perfect :) then you'll just ask them to find someone who can bring his tv :)
2011-04-28 17:46 <lekernel> nice for quick demos :)
2011-04-28 17:47 <wpwrak> or maybe bolt a small lcd screen on the top ?
2011-04-28 17:56 <kristianpaul> yeah lcd on the top plus touch technology :D
2011-04-28 17:57 <kristianpaul> make it thinner later, and voala!
2011-04-28 18:00 <urandom__> is rejon also behind sharism.ORG or is this wrong http://rejon.org/bio/ ?
2011-04-28 18:05 <lekernel> as I understand it, he's behind the sharism.org, but sharism.org has little (if anything) to do with sharism.cc
2011-04-28 18:28 <rejon> lekernel sounds skeptical ;)
2011-04-28 18:28 <rejon> there are a few people behind sharism.org, myself included
2011-04-28 18:29 <lekernel> ,HF AJDJ(3
2011-04-28 18:30 <kristianpaul> sharism at work is not enought lekernel ? ;-)
2011-04-28 18:30 <lekernel> kristianpaul: ?
2011-04-28 18:31 <lekernel> well, as Rop Gonggrijp puts it: "We will have to learn to navigate a world in which every imaginable aspect of being genuine or sincere has 10.000 spindoctors working on how to transplant it to the fake turds that run things."
2011-04-28 18:32 <lekernel> so forgive me if I'm always skeptical of everything :-)
2011-04-28 18:36 <lekernel> and to be honest, sharism.org does look suspicious to me
2011-04-28 18:36 <kristianpaul> he, i agree with the last one ;)
2011-04-28 19:26 <wpwrak> hmm, the MIPS "lw" instruction encoding seems a little silly. they could have extended the offset range by two bits by omitting the two LSBs, which are probably almost always zero anyway
2011-04-28 19:29 <lekernel> wpwrak: time to switch to lm32? :-)
2011-04-28 19:29 <lekernel> you could even fix those things yourself =]
2011-04-28 19:36 <wpwrak> lekernel: yeah, tempting ... fix the arch instead of working around its flaws :)
2011-04-28 19:50 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2.c (line, frame): don't pass prefetch pointer but just use *p http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/e94b3bb
2011-04-28 19:50 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2.c: corrected and improved loading of the first TX word http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/4480b32
2011-04-28 19:50 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga.sch: fixed typo in comment http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/cb5a6bd
2011-04-28 20:08 <urandom__> rejon could you try to explain what sharism.org is about when you have some time?
2011-04-28 20:16 <rejon> urandom__ attempt to increase sharing between people
2011-04-28 20:16 <rejon> urandom__ lekernel i agree its good to skeptical
2011-04-28 20:16 <wpwrak> urandom__: it seems to be about selling concepts most of us would agree with using language that normally heralds the arrival of copious amounts of bovine feces :)
2011-04-28 20:16 <rejon> haha
2011-04-28 20:17 <wpwrak> urandom__: of course, there must be some part of the population who responds to just this sort of stimuli :)
2011-04-28 20:17 <rejon> part of the reason i put some energy into sharism is because i lost faith in support of CC licenses from living in developing world
2011-04-28 20:17 <rejon> most of art and innovation i like is illegal in the eyes of copyright
2011-04-28 20:18 <rejon> and realized that magic reason many were into CC is because of sharing
2011-04-28 20:18 <rejon> soooo
2011-04-28 20:18 <rejon> its on purpose vague ideology
2011-04-28 20:18 <wpwrak> rejon: what would make that art illegal ?
2011-04-28 20:18 <rejon> copyright is a first world problem
2011-04-28 20:19 <wpwrak> rejon: yeah, in the developing world, you "just copy, right ?" :)
2011-04-28 20:19 <urandom__> its on purpose vague so people just think "wtf is this about?!"? ;)
2011-04-28 20:19 <rejon> urandom__ ha
2011-04-28 20:19 <rejon> no, its just a bit of advocacy towards getting people to share more
2011-04-28 20:19 <rejon> don't overthink it
2011-04-28 20:19 <rejon> not jesus 2.0 or 2.1 or anything ;)
2011-04-28 20:20 <urandom__> or is it just bad chinese or english translation, i mean really the texts on that sad are only "wtf", what kind of people like them?
2011-04-28 20:20 <urandom__> on that site
2011-04-28 20:21 <rejon> yeah, many of them need to be nuked
2011-04-28 20:21 <rejon> i let some of these things go laissez-faire on projects to encourage participation
2011-04-28 20:21 <wpwrak> http://sharism.org/about would get a pretty decent bullshit bingo rating :)
2011-04-28 20:21 <rejon> hahaha
2011-04-28 20:21 <rejon> totally agree wpwrak
2011-04-28 20:21 <urandom__> rejon how do you define sharing?
2011-04-28 20:22 <rejon> good question
2011-04-28 20:22 <rejon> shared use of a resource
2011-04-28 20:23 <rejon> btw, yesterday was i guess national sharing day in the usa
2011-04-28 20:23 <rejon> hahaha
2011-04-28 20:23 <rejon> funny
2011-04-28 20:23 <urandom__> a material or imaterial resource or both?
2011-04-28 20:23 <rejon> i would say both
2011-04-28 20:24 <rejon> yes, i agree that one can rip to shreds vague ideas like sharism with its lack of specifics
2011-04-28 20:24 <rejon> that is one reason why CC is good
2011-04-28 20:24 <rejon> I should rather say, *effective*
2011-04-28 20:24 <rejon> because it has a specific solution to a specific problem
2011-04-28 20:24 <urandom__> uhm really no offence but for someone who made a site like sharism.org you dont seem to have put many thought in it
2011-04-28 20:25 <wpwrak> already the beginning is bad: "SHARISM is a Mind Revolution". makes you wonder what sort of metaphysics they're trying to sell. about the only thing that's revolutionary is how we - as a culture - seem to have forgotten such basic things. but that's more revolting than revolutionary.
2011-04-28 20:26 <rejon> urandom__ ha :)
2011-04-28 20:26 <rejon> wpwrak yes, those are from isaac mao
2011-04-28 20:26 <rejon> the lines between pata-philosophy and practicality are scattered in that text
2011-04-28 20:27 <urandom__> rejon so what are imaterial resources and how do you share them?
2011-04-28 20:28 <rejon> btw I don't have an OCD
2011-04-28 20:28 <wpwrak> hmm yes, pataphysics has exactly that ring ...
2011-04-28 20:28 <rejon> hahaha
2011-04-28 20:29 <urandom__> you dont have a obsessive-compulsive disorder?
2011-04-28 20:29 <rejon> urandom__ i'm being a jackass
2011-04-28 20:29 <rejon> its a joke
2011-04-28 20:29 <wpwrak> rejon: so your target audience are the mystics ?
2011-04-28 20:30 <rejon> wpwrak could be
2011-04-28 20:30 <rejon> urandom__ immaterial resources, lets do a google search
2011-04-28 20:31 <urandom__> nah i am not asking google i am asking you
2011-04-28 20:32 <urandom__> you put you name on that sharism.org site and i gues you are pro-sharism and i am interested in it so you should be able to properly answer me
2011-04-28 20:33 <rejon> you are right urandom__
2011-04-28 20:33 <wpwrak> rejon: i'm asking because for non-mystics, that sort of approach only produces a great amount of suspicion, meaning that they either stop paying attention, or are so busy looking for the deception that they'll hardly pay attention to the good things that are also part of the message
2011-04-28 20:33 <rejon> wpwrak i totally agree with you as well
2011-04-28 20:34 <rejon> the way I usually work on projects is go more general, bring the interested parties and then start organizing it a bit more
2011-04-28 20:34 <rejon> get people more involved
2011-04-28 20:34 <rejon> then start drilling down to specifics
2011-04-28 20:34 <rejon> so I appreciate urandom__ wpwrak your comments
2011-04-28 20:34 <rejon> like you guys, i'm bopping around lots of tasks...
2011-04-28 20:35 <rejon> so immaterial resources...
2011-04-28 20:36 <rejon> I'm more likely to try and structure a dive into this and learn your specific knowledge than answer your question urandom__
2011-04-28 20:36 <rejon> and try and get you involved to define sharism
2011-04-28 20:36 <rejon> but, that is me
2011-04-28 20:36 <rejon> and my approach...
2011-04-28 20:37 <wpwrak> a top-down approach is often good, agreed. i just find it a bit odd that you'd pick, in an area where most of the pioneering work comes from the technological-rational sector, language that is usually applied for concepts that largely contradict the defining elements of that sector's culture
2011-04-28 20:38 <rejon> wpwrak I've been trying to weed a lot of that language out
2011-04-28 20:38 <rejon> the original word and concept came from http://isaacmao.com
2011-04-28 20:38 <rejon> christopher adams and I got involved because we were friends of isaac's and made this book http://freesouls.cc
2011-04-28 20:38 <wpwrak> (weed out) good :) maybe it'll be palatable for us technocrats after a few more scrubbings :)
2011-04-28 20:39 <rejon> from that book, sharism by far the most popular concept, however vague it is
2011-04-28 20:39 <rejon> and, we were living in china at the time
2011-04-28 20:39 <rejon> sooo, it resonated even more
2011-04-28 20:39 <rejon> since, the normal terminology for these concepts is polarizing and mostly blocked
2011-04-28 20:39 <rejon> by biz, govt, people, etc
2011-04-28 20:39 <rejon> sooooooo, you got three main people cutting text down and more
2011-04-28 20:40 <urandom__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Mao ah i see
2011-04-28 20:40 <rejon> so there is a lot of text around, of varying angles of real and fake discourse
2011-04-28 20:40 <rejon> believe it or not, my main charge is to make it real ;)
2011-04-28 20:41 <urandom__> might there be a problem because Mao isnt a native english speaker as i would gues?
2011-04-28 20:41 <rejon> yes
2011-04-28 20:41 <rejon> there are some things
2011-04-28 20:41 <rejon> but there is a lot of hippy shit in the writings too
2011-04-28 20:41 <rejon> the original text in the book is hacked up pretty hard core
2011-04-28 20:42 <rejon> so, i tried to simplify the concept somewhat, but at the same time, seeking a real implementation
2011-04-28 20:42 <rejon> anyhow, i didn't mean to write that much...i'm american so I'm kind of laying out stuff for you euros ;)
2011-04-28 20:42 <rejon> wearing my opinions and flaws on my sleeve ;)
2011-04-28 20:45 <rejon> lekernel pretty psyched about having feed support for mm1
2011-04-28 20:45 <rejon> and the visual synth angle is good on it
2011-04-28 20:45 <urandom__> rejon back to immaterial resources, may i help you? i gues you mean ideas and stuff with it, so yeah people naturally like to share their ideas and thoughts, that sharism stuff wants to increase sharing so it wants people to communicate more? (no i am not going to help you more)
2011-04-28 20:47 <rejon> :) great urandom__
2011-04-28 20:47 <rejon> exactly :)
2011-04-28 20:49 <urandom__> well thats 1. trivial 2. i am far more interested in people communicating more effective (reducing misunderstandings and such), i really cant see any need to let people communicate more on general, so i totally disagree
2011-04-28 20:50 <rejon> abstract ;)
2011-04-28 20:50 <wpwrak> returning to http://sharism.org/about, i think a better structure would be to have a gentle introductory paragraph, and then treat one clearly identified (in boldface) concept in each subsequent paragraph. the complexity of the current one upsets the reader.
2011-04-28 20:51 <rejon> that is from the sharism forum
2011-04-28 20:51 <urandom__> rejon what do you mean with "abstract"?
2011-04-28 20:51 <rejon> in china
2011-04-28 20:51 <rejon> i agree with you wpwrak
2011-04-28 20:51 <rejon> urandom__ i generally agree with you , need more specific discussions to make progress in communication and negotations
2011-04-28 20:52 <rejon> but, you have to start somewhere general and work down
2011-04-28 20:52 <urandom__> nah its not general, its wrong, sory
2011-04-28 20:52 <wpwrak> the 2nd paragraph is again too diffuse. makes reference to very distant areas, alluding they connect, but not having enough substance to convey why one should assume this. (it's not even so much about not accepting the message, but being unable to identify the message)
2011-04-28 20:53 <rejon> hahaha, you guys crack me up
2011-04-28 20:53 <rejon> we have a bug tracker btw?
2011-04-28 20:53 <rejon> http://bugs.launchpad.net/sharism
2011-04-28 20:53 <rejon> i'm all for making the text and the concepts more specific
2011-04-28 20:54 <rejon> just like hardware or software projects
2011-04-28 20:54 <rejon> start somewhere big, and start breaking down the tasks, and solving the little problems to solve the big one
2011-04-28 20:54 <urandom__> a bug tracker for text, wow now i am impressed
2011-04-28 20:55 <rejon> not just text, the whole damn project
2011-04-28 20:55 <urandom__> rejon problem is you cant start big if you dont have any meaningfull substance to begin with
2011-04-28 20:55 <rejon> ha, there is meaningful substance
2011-04-28 20:55 <rejon> *increase sharing*
2011-04-28 20:55 <rejon> between people
2011-04-28 20:55 <wpwrak> 3rd paragraph (social applications) slowly gets to a point but it still very meandering. also, the conclusion doesn't follow from the rest.
2011-04-28 20:56 <urandom__> that not meaningfull at all rejon, if my mother increases sharing with her friends about what royal fuckheads are doing thats not productive at all
2011-04-28 20:57 <wpwrak> 4th paragraph (legal) suffers from forced modernity (you don't need hip new social applications to set licensing terms you like) but ends with a strong insight
2011-04-28 20:58 <wpwrak> 5th (mobile) doesn't seem to add much substance. you'd probably be able to share almost as much if radiowaves didn't exist. particularly if you're the sedentary kind ;-)
2011-04-28 20:59 <rejon> man, you guys would love art criticism and writing ;)
2011-04-28 20:59 <rejon> hahaha
2011-04-28 20:59 <wpwrak> 6th: so it's about access to political power ? not putting forward a new philosophy ? (or, less pompous, a new view of things)
2011-04-28 21:00 <urandom__> "Sharism promises to be the politics of the next global superpower. It will not be a country, but a new human network joined by social software. " so its about communism?
2011-04-28 21:02 <urandom__> wpwrak well a philosophy is always political, philosphy should be about changing things and not only about interpreting them
2011-04-28 21:02 <wpwrak> urandom__: also, if you ask the man on the street to translate "social software" and put the translation back into that text, you'll get the statement that our future world will be rules by facebook and twitter. now that's what i call a heartily dystopian vision ;-)
2011-04-28 21:03 <urandom__> ah i was going to say that, worldwide dictatorship of facebook/google
2011-04-28 21:03 <wpwrak> urandom__: yes, but there's also the power-grabbing side of politics. so you have to tread carefully
2011-04-28 21:05 <urandom__> well you need political power (abstract not as in "we need a free softwarte party) to change stuff
2011-04-28 21:06 <wpwrak> urandom__: the way it is expressed, one could understand it as politics being the main objective, with the rest just byplay
2011-04-28 21:06 <wpwrak> urandom__: you need power to change something against resistance, yes. but you don't necessarily have to start with politics
2011-04-28 21:08 <wpwrak> urandom__: and then there's the question what role politics play on your path. e.g., do you engage in activities of a primarily political nature ? or are you satisfied if the political powers refrain from getting in your way ?
2011-04-28 21:08 <urandom__> well you start with philosophy/science to understand how something works and how it should be changed
2011-04-28 21:09 <urandom__> ah i know what you mean, yeah the politics shouldnt be a goal in itself
2011-04-28 21:09 <wpwrak> urandom__: e.g., open source. that's a grass-root phenomenon. the political wing only gained strength much later, propelled by the technical success.
2011-04-28 21:11 <urandom__> politics should be method not the goal -> thats the point is it?
2011-04-28 21:13 <urandom__> though i think you cant see that too seperated, free software is always political of course
2011-04-28 21:14 <wpwrak> urandom__: should politics even be the method ? that's but one approach. you can also get people to adopt an idea/concept without much institutional support
2011-04-28 21:15 <wpwrak> yes, you can't separate things completely. obviously, if you believe in open source, you'll dislike, say, any tightening of patent laws.
2011-04-28 21:15 <urandom__> i am not talking about politics as in parlamentary politics but in a much broader sene
2011-04-28 21:15 <urandom__> sense
2011-04-28 21:15 <rejon> (sorry dudes in conf. call)
2011-04-28 21:17 <wpwrak> urandom__: not sure if an overly broad definition of politics is useful :) if what you do doesn't involve politicians or people assuming the role of politicians, then it's probably not really politics :)
2011-04-28 21:17 <urandom__> i have to quote wikipedia "Politics (from Greek À¿»¹Ä¹ºÌÂ, "of, for, or relating to citizens"), is a process by which groups of people make collective decisions. " , that should give you an idea
2011-04-28 21:18 <urandom__> well if you only talk about parlamentarism, i dont care about it at all mostly
2011-04-28 21:19 <wpwrak> yes, but A isa B doesn't mean B isa A
2011-04-28 21:20 <urandom__> what?
2011-04-28 21:20 <wpwrak> there are also non-political processes that affect collective decisions. like fashion, earthquakes, some soccer team winning.
2011-04-28 21:21 <wpwrak> or some research discovery, apple releasing the iWhatever (well, that's fashion), ...
2011-04-28 21:22 <urandom__> uhm yeah, but i think we lost track
2011-04-28 21:22 <wpwrak> all of this may effect people's expectations with respect to politics, but that's a secondary effect
2011-04-28 21:22 <wpwrak> perhaps ;-)
2011-04-28 21:22 <urandom__> what point do we actuelly argue now,? we use different definitions of politics
2011-04-28 21:24 <wpwrak> anyway, what i'm saying is that "politics" often has a negative connotation. so i would avoid that word unless it very accurately describes an essential element of the ... system, process, whatever you call it
2011-04-28 21:27 <urandom__> nah i dont really agree, avoiding words is in most cases bad, because  you you might tend to make terms up that are totally senseless just for not having to use the word, well it depends i would say
2011-04-28 21:28 <urandom__> if your readers dont understand the connotation you used and you made it clear means the readers are fuckheads anyway
2011-04-28 21:28 <wpwrak> anyway, that last paragraph has a lot of things that sound wrong. e.g., "superpower". that can easily be read in a Machiavellian sense.
2011-04-28 21:28 <urandom__> yeah i agree
2011-04-28 21:30 <urandom__> actuelly that mao guy should better focus on writing free software, seems he might be more talented in it than in making up nonsensical ideologies
2011-04-28 21:30 <wpwrak> (avoiding words) there's avoiding words and avoiding words ;-) not saying "black" (people) because it has become a politically incorrect word is silly, because you just end up substituting it with other words (unless you actually stop thinking they're inferior)
2011-04-28 21:31 <wpwrak> but using words that have undesirable connotations is a bad idea, because people may pick up the wrong vibe
2011-04-28 21:32 <wpwrak> heh ;-)
2011-04-28 21:34 <urandom__> nah you can change undesirable connotations but the text has to make clear how you use it
2011-04-28 21:34 <rejon> his writing is getting better all the time
2011-04-28 21:34 <rejon> you guys shoudl copy and paste this log in and email it to him
2011-04-28 21:34 <rejon> he would like that
2011-04-28 21:34 <rejon> don't just blow energy in here ! :)
2011-04-28 21:35 <urandom__> he can join here
2011-04-28 21:39 <urandom__> rejon actuelly problem is that reinventing his own ideology i a very bad idea, i more for learning from past and looking if there are already movements you can work with
2011-04-28 21:40 <wpwrak> rejon: (irc log) feel free you copy and paste :)
2011-04-28 21:40 <wpwrak> s/you/to/
2011-04-28 21:41 <urandom__> make some free software movement for developing countries wing ;)
2011-04-28 21:41 <urandom__> though GPL-heads have also nonsensical ideology but yeah others story
2011-04-28 21:42 <larsc> who is reinventing his own ideology?
2011-04-28 21:43 <urandom__> that sharism.org guys are making up their own ideology, larsc
2011-04-28 21:43 <wpwrak> urandom__: a movement for countries where people's minds are more developed than their economy ;-)
2011-04-28 21:45 <urandom__> wpwrak well that would be basically communism or zeitgeistmovement, which is basicaly the same
2011-04-28 21:47 <wpwrak> urandom__: uh, that's your interpretation of what's desirable :) someone who believes in hardcore dog-eat-dog capitalism and has good arguments (that's the catch :) may also find an open-minded society welcoming
2011-04-28 21:49 <urandom__> "hardcore dog-eat-dog capitalism" nice, we say Rauptierkapitalismus in German, something like beast capitalism(?)
2011-04-28 21:49 <rejon> how's BEN-WPAN?
2011-04-28 21:50 <urandom__> predatory capitalism might work, well back to qi-hw
2011-04-28 21:52 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb-vga2: instead of pointers to registers, use pointer plus offset (via macros) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/957491d
2011-04-28 21:52 <wpwrak> urandom__: "predatory" sounds good, yes
2011-04-28 21:53 <urandom__> though it is always predatory, so just capitalism i fine i gues
2011-04-28 21:53 <wpwrak> rejon: a little dormant while i'm having fun with vga ;) i'm also waiting for an update on the production status from tuxbrain
2011-04-28 21:53 <rejon> great
2011-04-28 21:53 <rejon> the vga is nice
2011-04-28 21:54 <urandom__> have i ever said that ben-vga thing is awesome? well its really great, i would really like to see more stuff like that
2011-04-28 21:55 <wpwrak> urandom__: i think it can also be expansive, largely without being predatory. e.g., think of the .com bubble. there, the motor for a lot of development was capitalism, yet it was really more about occupying new territory than fighting others
2011-04-28 21:55 <wpwrak> urandom__: thanks :) yes, i'd also like to see more stuff like that :)
2011-04-28 21:55 <wpwrak> urandom__: people here still seem to be a bit too shy about actually making hardware
2011-04-28 21:56 <urandom__> well i dont really know enough about hardware to make something like this
2011-04-28 21:57 <wpwrak> okay, the vga is messy. the hardware is simple enough, but it's timing the entire system properly that's hard
2011-04-28 21:58 <urandom__> wpwrak i am not saying that capitalism is always is evil, at some point of developmet it can make sense though after that point it is more blocking development like it does in most western countries now
2011-04-28 21:58 <wpwrak> but they key to making hardware is to start somewhere. the more you do, the more you learn, and the more complex things you can attack.
2011-04-28 21:59 <urandom__> yeah i really dont know how to start, i might buy some small fpga to hack it
2011-04-28 22:00 <wpwrak> urandom__: (capitalism) yes, agreed. one should perhaps alternate between capitalism and socialism ;-)
2011-04-28 22:00 <wpwrak> an fpga is quite a heavy start :)
2011-04-28 22:01 <urandom__> yeah it is but it is also very interesting
2011-04-28 22:01 <wpwrak> maybe start with something easier. a row of leds. a learning IR remote control. this kind of stuff. it's simple and you get familiar with the basics (hw, sw, and tools). at the next level, you don't have to worry about these things anymore.
2011-04-28 22:02 <wpwrak> (fpga interesting) that's certainly true
2011-04-28 22:04 <urandom__> are ther any sets you can buy for this simple stuff? with docs and stuff
2011-04-28 22:06 <urandom__> but well the fpga thing will work out, i always do projects that are far to huge for me and grow on them
2011-04-28 22:08 <wpwrak> ah, excellent. the ingenic mips has a WAIT instruction. may that's the secret key to making the timing more accurate :)
2011-04-28 22:09 <wpwrak> urandom__: heh, i always do those i think would be easy and they grow on me ;-)
2011-04-28 22:25 <rejon> ha http://j.mp/iJ25tL
2011-04-28 22:35 <wpwrak> all the boys love Sue :)
2011-04-28 22:36 <rejon> chinese companies suing each other in eu!
2011-04-28 22:36 <rejon> ha
2011-04-28 23:11 <wpwrak> rejon: better than european companies suing each other in china :)