2011-04-20 00:25 2 + 2 = 5 result? ;) 2011-04-20 02:35 kristianpaul: very good. i think we can release you soon :-) 2011-04-20 03:17 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: fmit: mark BROKEN, depends on opengl http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/84ea804 2011-04-20 03:47 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-files: config.full_system, add liblo liblo-utils http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/815369e 2011-04-20 04:10 wpwrak: I've found a chip similar to cc2500, cc2420: a single-chip folded dipole-capable 802.15.4 transceiver 2011-04-20 04:11 lemme see what's wrong with it ... 2011-04-20 04:12 ah yes, HUGE. 48-QFN 2011-04-20 04:12 also expensive 2011-04-20 04:13 and you still need a balun for an asymmetric antenna 2011-04-20 04:13 wpwrak: huge?.. well, maybe, if you live in a 10-mil world 2011-04-20 04:14 wpwrak: and it's not so expensive. $5 isn't a lot, I think 2011-04-20 04:15 USD 5 if you buy a ton of them ... 2011-04-20 04:16 btw, 10 mil is also huge ;-) 2011-04-20 04:18 now .. how do calibrate the clock of that wretched ben ... 2011-04-20 04:20 wpwrak: no. $5 if I buy a single one. it's cheaper if I'll buy more 2011-04-20 04:21 hehe 2011-04-20 04:21 hmph. i wonder how your shops get those prices. do you have negative taxes in russia ? 2011-04-20 04:21 wpwrak: http://www.terraelectronica.ru/catalog.php?ID=789&Search=1&Text=cc2420&Gde=2&PageS=1 2011-04-20 04:22 it's in russian, through the interface should be self-explanatory 2011-04-20 04:23 MOQ 10, no ? 2011-04-20 04:23 huh? 2011-04-20 04:23 ah no 2011-04-20 04:23 ah, unit price and then two qty discounts, i see 2011-04-20 04:23 the leftmost column is for 1-9 parts, then for 10, then for 50 2011-04-20 04:23 yeah 2011-04-20 04:24 and if you'll make an order through their website, you'll get additional 7% off 2011-04-20 04:25 they should open a branch in argentina :) 2011-04-20 04:25 well, I myself wonder how they achieved such a result, too. in all other places (except maybe the radiomarket, which is... probably not completely legal) these chips are more expensive (up to three times) 2011-04-20 04:28 do they have all the stuff they list also in stock ? 2011-04-20 04:29 the last two columns are: "in stock" and "in warehouse" 2011-04-20 04:29 the items which are "in stock" you can go and get right now 2011-04-20 04:29 for those in warehouse, you'd need to wait for 2-3 day 2011-04-20 04:29 *days 2011-04-20 04:30 ah, so they only have 1 of the cheap cc2420 and 3 which are a bit more expensive ? nothing in the warehouse 2011-04-20 04:31 wpwrak: they often buy more. it's fine for prototyping, and if you'll want to get a lot of these (100+ in their terms is "a lot"), they'll quickly find more without any troubles 2011-04-20 04:31 maybe they simply buy surplus stock. that can be cheap. 2011-04-20 04:32 wpwrak: not quite. they mainly _sell_ their own surplus stock, as their main job is selling components to companies 2011-04-20 04:32 ah, that would also work 2011-04-20 04:34 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-txrx.c (main): option parsing in PER test mode segfaulted http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/5e19655 2011-04-20 04:34 [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools: new utility atrf-xmit for fast transmission tests http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9ab94a5 2011-04-20 04:34 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-txrx.c (receive_message, receive_pcap): also ignore IRQ_AMI http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/16b095c 2011-04-20 04:34 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-xmit.c (usage): the "packets" argument is optional http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c4167d8 2011-04-20 04:34 [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/lib/atrf.c (select_driver): "default" selects the default driver http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/a15ab43 2011-04-20 04:34 [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/atrf-xtal/Makefile (clean, spotless): also clean up if target is the host http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6eebf37 2011-04-20 04:34 [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/Makefile (upload): copy tools to /usr/bin instead of $HOME http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/d7d2bd4 2011-04-20 04:34 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/: some elements of a production test system (in progress) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/04db5e0 2011-04-20 04:37 they also have funny packaging. once I bought 2 atmegas, and they: 1) got a big, 50x20 black plastic bag and sealed it hermetically 2) inside was a folded PET bag of similar size, and sealed hermetically 3) inside was a foiled PET, sealed bag with _air evacuated_, 4) inside of what was a piece of soft plastic (dunno how that is called; you'll often find these e.g. under the motherboard in a box), and inside of that was, finally, 5) a smal 2011-04-20 04:38 also inside was a really big sack of silicagel, probably 50 times bigger than the chips... 2011-04-20 04:39 whitequark: hmm, kinda dubious :) 2011-04-20 04:40 they have had some warehouse rules changed recently 2011-04-20 04:40 well, maybe they bought a lot of these bags or something like that... :) 2011-04-20 04:47 maybe bags are actually their main business :) 2011-04-20 04:50 wpwrak: aha, I now understand their evil plan! They are buying a lot of bags and give them out for free combined with some "orders". The income is then negative, but when combined with negative taxes... 2011-04-20 04:52 maybe there 2011-04-20 04:53 's some law forbidding the sale of empty bags, so they need to put something inside. the chips are probably industry rejects :) 2011-04-20 04:53 so that's why they make such huge stacks of them 2011-04-20 04:53 it would also explain why you needed so many tries to get your board working ;-) 2011-04-20 04:55 the approach wouldn't be so bad. a batch gets rejected if a sample finds more than N out of M bad parts. that means that there are still M-N good ones, probably a lot more. so just sell them to people who won't notice if, say, 10% of the parts they get are actually broken. 2011-04-20 05:03 wpwrak: hah. well, no, that was stupid me not noticing the "connect to Vdd or leave floating" part... poor FETs inside. 2011-04-20 06:05 xiangfu: hi 2011-04-20 06:05 kyak: Hi 2011-04-20 06:06 xiangfu: i noticed that the keycodes have changed in trunk in comparison to backfire. For example, PgUp and PgDown used to be code 87 and 88, now they are 114 and 115 2011-04-20 06:06 that is why scrolling in console was not working 2011-04-20 06:07 and also adjusting of sound didn't work 2011-04-20 06:07 do you have an idea where it comes from? 2011-04-20 06:13 this is because they are mapped in different key. 2011-04-20 06:13 87--> F11 88-->F12 2011-04-20 06:13 114-->F13 115-->F14 2011-04-20 06:14 look into" linux-2.6.32.27/arch/mips/jz4740/board-qi_lb60.c"  line 126. 2011-04-20 06:21 xiangfu: i see. We are missing this in board-qi_lb60.c of 2.6.37.4 2011-04-20 06:24 there was "#define KEY_QI_VOLUP   KEY_F11", now it is "#define KEY_QI_VOLUP   KEY_VOLUMEUP" 2011-04-20 06:24 i think this is the problem 2011-04-20 06:25 KEY_F11 is 87, but KEY_VOLUMEUP is 114 2011-04-20 06:25 (or 115, whatever) 2011-04-20 06:26 this also causes problems in SDL apps, like nightsky or gmu 2011-04-20 06:26 they know that Ben's keys VolUp and VolDown are mapped to F11/F12 2011-04-20 06:26 now it's not like this 2011-04-20 06:36 kyak: http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/mips/jz4740/board-qi_lb60.c?v=2.6.37;a=mips#L148 2011-04-20 06:36 kyak: since the upstream is KEY_VOLUMEUP. change our code. follow upstream. 2011-04-20 06:38 "change our code" - adapt the console keymap, and keymaps of many other apps, like mplayer, nightsky, gmu (the first i had on mind, there are others). In some of them the mapping is hardcoded 2011-04-20 06:38 i don't understand the upstream change. 2011-04-20 06:38 who cares if it is KEY_VOLUMEUP or KEY_F11 2011-04-20 06:39 it works already as KEY_F11, why need to change the _name_? 2011-04-20 06:45 http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/mips/jz4740/board-qi_lb60.c?v=2.6.37;a=mips#L188 <--also this line is not correct. 2011-04-20 06:45 it should be "KEY_GRAVE" 2011-04-20 06:47 yeh, it's another difference 2011-04-20 06:48 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/apostrophe.html 2011-04-20 06:54 kyak: then it should be "ACUTE ACCENT" and shift should be "GRAVE ACCENT" 2011-04-20 06:55 kyak: right? 2011-04-20 06:55 kyak: I think we can try to create a small patch for the KEY_F11. for make other apps work. I will look into that :) 2011-04-20 06:58 xiangfu: yeah, exactly right 2011-04-20 06:58 thanks ) 2011-04-20 06:58 kyak: ok. I will change that. 2011-04-20 06:58 xiangfu: btw, were your patches for trunk accepted by openwrt upstream? 2011-04-20 06:59 no. 2011-04-20 06:59 I think they maybe not notice that. I will send another email again today. :) 2011-04-20 07:00 all right :) 2011-04-20 10:46 kyak: which ones? 2011-04-20 10:54 jow_laptop: there were four patches mailed to openwrt ML on the 25th of March 2011-04-20 10:55 by xiangfu 2011-04-20 10:55 as an attempt to reduce the difference between qi's backfire branch and openwrt's trunk 2011-04-20 10:56 in preparation of moving to openwrt's upcoming release :) 2011-04-20 10:57 https://lists.openwrt.org/pipermail/openwrt-devel/2011-March/010055.html 2011-04-20 10:58 and next three messages 2011-04-20 11:09 ah 2011-04-20 11:10 4/4 should be synced against the current trunk sysctl.conf 2011-04-20 11:10 yeah, probably it should.. alsmost a month has passed 2011-04-20 11:12 it does not change that often 2011-04-20 11:12 but I mean this: https://dev.openwrt.org/changeset/26204/trunk/package/base-files/files/etc/sysctl.conf 2011-04-20 11:31 jow_laptop: hm, shouldn't xburst/base-files/etc/sysctl.conf completely overwrite package/base-files/files/etc/sysctl.conf? 2011-04-20 11:31 (trying to understand why and how they should be synced) 2011-04-20 11:37 yes, but the one you create is outdated from the beginning 2011-04-20 11:37 it touches sysctl keys that do not exist in recent kernels 2011-04-20 11:38 ah all right, i got your point 2011-04-20 13:11 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: libtcod for ascii-paint http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/7ec9e95 2011-04-20 13:11 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: ascii-paint, uses ASCII characters instead of pixels to draw images http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3a40dc0 2011-04-20 13:15 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/: on-going development http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/cd59b85 2011-04-20 13:15 [commit] Werner Almesberger: libatrf: renamed driver specification argument from "arg" to "spec" http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/4fa909d 2011-04-20 13:15 [commit] Werner Almesberger: tools: atrf-id option -s to retrieve driver spec, with necessary infrastructure http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/2961482 2011-04-20 13:15 [commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/Common: get real driver spec with atrf-id instead of assuming "default" http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/fc26eb0 2011-04-20 14:53 whitequark: ultrasound cleaner acquired :) 2011-04-20 17:04 coughs, but covers his mouth, nit wishing to disturb those who are sleeping 2011-04-20 19:19 wolfspraul have new sales of Ben declined? the list is very quiet, no newbies asking for help there are here. 2011-04-20 19:24 rjeffries_: ah, you bought a nanonote recently? :-) 2011-04-20 19:24 maybe the wiki is just so good by now that they'll all figure it out by themselves 2011-04-20 19:24 :D 2011-04-20 19:24 Microtouch would make a Most Excellet periferal for Ben: https://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51&products_id=330 2011-04-20 19:25 rjeffries_: so, attach it and show us a video with how great it works with the ben 2011-04-20 19:25 somebody will end here as soon get flash corrupted, at least wiki also get a good tutorial about the carbon rubber and power/boot sequence of the nanonote 2011-04-20 19:26 kristainpaul thank you for asking! I borrowed a Ben for a couple of weeks. long enough to realize it assumes a more intelliegent, more well-informed user than me. 2011-04-20 19:27 when I used it via SSH so I had a bigger keyboard and a larger display, it was a clever little linux box 2011-04-20 19:27 wpwrak you have the wrong guy. But maybe Tuxbrain will do so after he returns from his sabatical or wherever he is hiding 2011-04-20 19:28 good, you can blog about that,and tell people your experiences with it 2011-04-20 19:28 btw i think tuxbrain is not the person that hides, at least you mean other thing rjeffries_ ? 2011-04-20 19:28 wpwrak I wonder if the 8:10 and SPI will provide an adequate connection to Microtouch 2011-04-20 19:29 rjeffries_: try it ! 2011-04-20 19:29 if that would work, then for $70 one could add full USB and wouch interface to Ben 2011-04-20 19:29 kristianpaul which part of IANAE do you misunderstand? ;) 2011-04-20 19:30 the whole word :-) 2011-04-20 19:30 tuxbrian is missing in action is my observation. maybe he is being held prisoner by the vendors who build up ATben and ATusb boards? who can say for sure> 2011-04-20 19:31 I anm not an engineer. 2011-04-20 19:31 s/wouch/touch 2011-04-20 19:32 me either 2011-04-20 19:32 anyway.. 2011-04-20 19:33 kristianpaul: (tuxbrain) well, he it at least not responding. i've been expecting an update on the pcb side for over a week (there were a few pending questions), and i sent him a mail with more questions a few days ago. well, maybe his family obliged him to stay away from the keyboard for some easter holiday. not too uncommon in europe. 2011-04-20 19:34 (amily obliged him to stay away from the keyboard for some easter holiday) that make sense 2011-04-20 19:34 yeah 2011-04-20 19:35 wpwrak: i bet as in here,same in spain, not too much people work in holly week :-) 2011-04-20 19:37 rjeffries_: no ofense, but not going to the univesity or having a profesional degree in a specifc is not excuse for not doing fun/diy/play with electronics and software 2011-04-20 19:38 wpwrak: i ran out money past week, for now i cant afford make the 10PCB batch, i'm waiting a project to start so i can get some free to invest money :-) 2011-04-20 19:39 10PCB atben* 2011-04-20 19:42 kristianpaul: :-( well, the PCBs apparently aren't ready yet either. maybe next week. 2011-04-20 19:42 ah 2011-04-20 19:42 i tough 2011-04-20 19:42 wel i miss one week of commit logs.. 2011-04-20 19:43 kristianpaul: not commit log ;-) fabrication 2011-04-20 19:43 ah 2011-04-20 19:43 thats good ! 2011-04-20 19:43 for  a moment i tought you were still polishing something.. 2011-04-20 19:43 wich is not bad of course :-) 2011-04-20 19:44 kristianpaul: the order has been given to make them, the fab sent a proposal for the panelization a bit more than a week ago, we sent some comments, and then i don't know what happened afterwards. if they proceeded with making the boards swiftly, they should be done now. 2011-04-20 19:45 kristianpaul: (polishing) oh no. that time is past ;-) final gerber out was march 31 2011-04-20 19:45 yeah yeah, i read that mail, was a thread in qi i remenber 2011-04-20 23:52 rjeffries: you're staying true to your character ;-)