2011-04-18 00:01 <roh> mth: yes. basically do use ssl like we use ssh now most the time (connect, ack key on the first time if it doesnt look too fishy)
2011-04-18 00:04 <wpwrak> roh: i just wish SSL would simply use the SSH credentials ... poof, all problems disappear
2011-04-18 00:05 <roh> wpwrak: not that simple... you still need a userinterface.. and no.. we dont need changes on the servers or the code of the libs. just the userinterface and some pre-conditions are different
2011-04-18 00:05 <roh> so.. its even compatible...
2011-04-18 00:05 <roh> you guys know the ssl observatory of eff?
2011-04-18 00:07 <wpwrak> roh: naw, imagine your web browser would send your public ssh key for authentication. you already manage that key, so there's no extra work. (of course, this would only work for people who use SSH, kinda elitist)
2011-04-18 00:08 <wpwrak> s/send/use/ if we want to be pedantic :)
2011-04-18 00:08 <kristianpaul> is not that foaf ssl  works?
2011-04-18 00:09 <roh> wpwrak: well.. thats what ssl basically does if you use client based certs
2011-04-18 00:09 <roh> where you show 'your public half to the server'
2011-04-18 00:10 <roh> but its ugly to use... yet there is support in stuff like apache etc
2011-04-18 00:10 <wpwrak> roh: but cert management is usually extremely messy
2011-04-18 00:10 <wpwrak> roh: yep, ugly is the word :)
2011-04-18 00:10 <roh> mostly its sticky... like x509 usually is.. like liquid sugar or so ;) caramel-ssl
2011-04-18 00:12 <wpwrak> roh: or maybe similar appearance to caramel but originating from the fecal tract ...
2011-04-18 00:13 <roh> something like that
2011-04-18 00:19 <roh> man.. moving makes tired
2011-04-18 00:20 <wpwrak> now, really ? ;-))
2011-04-18 00:20 <roh> i mean.. its 2:20am, and i just awoke.. fell apart 8h ago or so. and my feet still hurt
2011-04-18 00:21 <wpwrak> and what would be unusual about sleeping from 6pm to 2am ? :)
2011-04-18 00:22 <roh> but yet.. moving a highly compressed hackerspace is somehow weird.. we are packing up stuff for over a week now and already move it over... and the thing only had 68m^2
2011-04-18 00:22 <roh> its feels like moving multiple houses *g*
2011-04-18 00:23 <wpwrak> hmm, my apartment had 100+ m2. and yes, moving 1.5 years ago was great fun, too
2011-04-18 00:23 <wpwrak> also, "highly compressed hacker space" describes it quite well
2011-04-18 00:23 <roh> well.. there you know all stuff.
2011-04-18 00:24 <wpwrak> there are actually several things i haven't found yet. might be hidden in some corner of a box or bag i haven't examined yet
2011-04-18 00:24 <roh> in a hackerspace one often has stuff in its hands which is... well.. unusual.. or do you have something >100kg  of lead-gel-batteries in different sizes around?
2011-04-18 00:25 <roh> well.. you have a 'workshop' right? for your mill and stuff?
2011-04-18 00:25 <wpwrak> hmm no. most of the icky stuff, i just threw away :)
2011-04-18 00:25 <roh> hrhr.. we use the batteries... and some are just doorstoppers now
2011-04-18 00:25 <wpwrak> (workshop) yup, now i have a separate room for these things. before, the mill shared my office
2011-04-18 00:26 <roh> yuk (dust)
2011-04-18 00:26 <wpwrak> yes, dust
2011-04-18 00:26 <roh> we have a own room for the mill again :)
2011-04-18 00:26 <roh> already cut in a window into the wall to make it watchable from the 'metal working room'
2011-04-18 00:27 <wpwrak> i also made a big isolated box for it, so now i can even let it run all night and nobody will hear it. well, unless it put it to work ob particularly noisy material, metals, for example
2011-04-18 00:27 <roh> so one sets up the machine. and then leaves to run it from next door. less noise, very small room  (less cleaning)
2011-04-18 00:27 <wpwrak> so the new space it much bigger ?
2011-04-18 00:27 <roh> yeah. we more than doubled
2011-04-18 00:27 <wpwrak> s/it/is/
2011-04-18 00:27 <wpwrak> that's always good :)
2011-04-18 00:27 <roh> 140-170m^2 then.
2011-04-18 00:28 <wpwrak> (small space) yup. another advantage of that box i made - all the dust stays in there :)
2011-04-18 00:28 <wpwrak> pretty spacious
2011-04-18 00:28 <roh> also more people and finally static places for some heavy tools
2011-04-18 00:29 <wpwrak> roh: and you sleep on the laser cutter, where it's nice and warm ? :)
2011-04-18 00:29 <roh> the lathe needs to be placed more solid and spacious... and the big metal sheet shears also want to be mounted fix
2011-04-18 00:29 <roh> wpwrak: naah... no beds there
2011-04-18 00:29 <wpwrak> heavy machinery, i see
2011-04-18 00:30 <wpwrak> (no beds) ah well, a chair or a table will do in a pinch ...
2011-04-18 00:30 <roh> sure. you really need to visit when you are in europe some time
2011-04-18 00:30 <roh> we got showers.. but we want to make sure nobody lives there
2011-04-18 00:31 <wpwrak> ah, i thought you lived there :)
2011-04-18 00:31 <roh> we... do hackerspaces for long enough that we know the fine line between hacking for long hours and people who 'stay sticky for some days/weeks' .. the latter isnt pretty
2011-04-18 00:31 <wpwrak> well, if you have showers, it may not be so bad ...
2011-04-18 00:32 <roh> i now live some further away than before. but gismo basically has it 'on the back of a small park' in front of his girlfriends bedroom ;)
2011-04-18 00:32 <roh> there is also no real kitchen and stuff. somebody would need to 'care for it personally'
2011-04-18 00:33 <wpwrak> roh: let me guess - she found the new place ?
2011-04-18 00:33 <roh> most 'areas' work best when there is somebody 'being the boss' around it.. not in a bad manner, but making sure its clean and orderly when people leave.. no stuff is left on the tables not intended to do so etc.
2011-04-18 00:34 <roh> wpwrak: its a former public indoor bath
2011-04-18 00:34 <wpwrak> roh: (no kitchen) since when do need hackers a kitchen ? except for experiments, of course
2011-04-18 00:34 <wpwrak> roh: (boss) yeah, that makes sense
2011-04-18 00:34 <roh> 'stadtbad wedding' .. now its dry and a place for art and such. we just entered the former solarium and started cutting out walls
2011-04-18 00:35 <roh> wpwrak: there will be a biolab
2011-04-18 00:35 <wpwrak> cool. then you can grow your own GMO food ;-)
2011-04-18 00:35 <roh> not sure i want that.
2011-04-18 00:36 <roh> but it would be cool to detect meat from gmo cows (since its NOT labeled)
2011-04-18 00:36 <wpwrak> a nice breakfast of e.coli, cereal-flavoured :)
2011-04-18 00:36 <roh> giving back choice to the consumer
2011-04-18 00:36 <roh> e.coli isnt that evil actually.
2011-04-18 00:36 <wpwrak> are they modding cows yet ?
2011-04-18 00:37 <roh> the thing itself.. not the sickness... the organism is really used form lots of stuff.. from 'generating stuff' like... long carbon chains (fuel) to medicine...
2011-04-18 00:38 <wpwrak> (e.coli) sure. it's kinda _the_ model organism for genetic experiments
2011-04-18 00:38 <roh> wpwrak: the us is cloning cows and the eu has decided that meat from their decendants doesnt need to be labeled special at all
2011-04-18 00:38 <wpwrak> (e.coli) hence my suggestion to use it as a basis for breakfast (or lunch, dinner, snack, ...)
2011-04-18 00:39 <roh> anyhow.. we do indeed care about safety and such.. so i dunno what is possible. somebody spoke of 'S1 requirements' and thus the room is lockable, has its own, openable window.. we'll see
2011-04-18 00:40 <wpwrak> (cloned cows) well, that's not GMO yet. the telomeres should be shorter, though, no ?
2011-04-18 00:40 <roh> also cloning disturbs the natural mix which makes sure the species is resistant to sickness
2011-04-18 00:41 <wpwrak> only level 1 ? so no fun with ebola and friends ...
2011-04-18 00:42 <roh> imagine a company having 1000 cows... and then some weird sickness comes around... usually only a few will die, the rest is resistant. on cloned cows.. if one is not resistant.. the others arent too. huuuge risk for the owner
2011-04-18 00:42 <roh> no ebola.
2011-04-18 00:42 <wpwrak> roh: (natural mix) you get that also with traditional means ... not quite as "efficiently", but still
2011-04-18 00:42 <roh> there are limits ;) same goes for other areas
2011-04-18 00:43 <roh> wpwrak: exactly. to be fair.. i consider myself lucky to have friends interrested in agriculture. thus i know who i want to go to for real good food 'when it all comes down' ;)
2011-04-18 00:44 <mth> roh: unfortunately, for really contageous diseases they kill all the cows anyway if one gets sick
2011-04-18 00:45 <mth> even if vaccines exists
2011-04-18 00:45 <roh> mth: yes... still depends on the sickness. we havent had any too selective ones. but we know there are (from humans for example... where we did much more work on that)
2011-04-18 00:46 <roh> mth: the whole thing is... if you dont have a 'modified to make $foo' organism.. its much more rubist already. means if its not tuned to make 3 times as much milk as cows are now
2011-04-18 00:46 <mth> my sister says that lack of genetic diversity in dog breeds is getting really obvious now
2011-04-18 00:46 <roh> and get space to move around and go outdoors.
2011-04-18 00:46 <roh> mth: hrhrhr... so dogs get even stupider?
2011-04-18 00:46 <mth> some breeds are pretty much guaranteed to develop physical problems
2011-04-18 00:46 <roh> yikes.. ok.. that bad already
2011-04-18 00:47 <wpwrak> mth: (dogs) you mean there's a chance some virus will kill them all ? wouldn't really miss all that dog shit in the streets ...
2011-04-18 00:47 <roh> wpwrak: its as bad as in berlin in ba too?
2011-04-18 00:48 <mth> wpwrak: the dogs in the streets are best protected since they do have a decent genetic mix
2011-04-18 00:48 <mth> I meant the kind of dog where the whole lineage is recorded
2011-04-18 00:48 <wpwrak> roh: here, some streets are basically public dog toilets :-(
2011-04-18 00:48 <mth> they are only bred with other dogs from that same small set
2011-04-18 00:49 <roh> mth: european monarcs did that too.. see where it got us ;)
2011-04-18 00:49 <wpwrak> mth: gee, what could possibly go wrong ? ;-)
2011-04-18 00:49 <roh> ones which need to copy paste to get a doctor
2011-04-18 00:49 <roh> *scnr*
2011-04-18 00:50 <mth> roh: even they eventually understood that it was better to marry someone not quite so close to the royal family
2011-04-18 00:50 <roh> mth: even without that.. have you seen pictures of them?
2011-04-18 00:51 <mth> no real pictures, only paintings, not sure how accurate those are
2011-04-18 00:51 <roh> true. no photographs... well.. their illnesses are well recorded sometimes. not nice.
2011-04-18 00:52 <roh> not what somebody wants for his kids in the end. dark ages are over
2011-04-18 00:52 <mth> I haven't seen those
2011-04-18 00:52 <mth> photographs of skeletons or did the intermarrying continue after photography was invented?
2011-04-18 00:52 <roh> all kinds of rare genetic diseases you basically only can inherit
2011-04-18 00:55 <roh> hrhrh ... google for 'european monarchs genetic defect'
2011-04-18 00:56 <roh> i like diversity. its what makes the reality work in lots of complex systems.
2011-04-18 00:56 <roh> if its biology or sourcecode.
2011-04-18 04:29 <rjeffries> rename #qi-hardware as #qi-biological-science We only eat GPLv3 licensed organisims. Step by step. Open-GMO
2011-04-18 14:59 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: add build script file using in buildhost http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/df9db34
2011-04-18 18:41 <rozzin> Yeeha--got GJay + MPDjay working on my NanoNote.
2011-04-18 18:41 <rozzin> Time to buy a NanoNote for my wife, now.
2011-04-18 18:52 <rozzin> There were a few changes that I had to make to the OpenWrt packaging for gsl & mpc, and I've created some packaging for GJay; what's the best way to contribute this all to the NanoNote community?
2011-04-18 18:54 <xMff> rozzin: I just sent patches to the Qi discuss listz
2011-04-18 18:54 <xMff> -z
2011-04-18 19:01 <wpwrak> rjeffries: step one: build electronics. step 2: build organisms that build electronics :)
2011-04-18 19:13 <rjeffries> wpwrak now you are atarting to sound like a nanomachine guy. not that there's anything wrong with thar
2011-04-18 19:21 <wpwrak> rjeffries: i always like others to do the work for me. doesn't have to be computers all the time ;-)