2011-03-31 00:41 <wpwrak> sigh. yet another day of failing infrastructure. first my ISP goes dead for 4+ hours. then my mail server is unreachable.
2011-03-31 00:43 <wpwrak> interesting. my cry of joy when the ISP came up for a moment (just to go down for some more minutes) made it out
2011-03-31 01:16 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: (important mail) i don't know how long it will take for almesberger.net to be back up. werner@openmoko.org should work until then.
2011-03-31 04:11 <kristianpaul> "I don't understand this problem, but I'm hoping it's fixed enough now."
2011-03-31 04:11 <kristianpaul> what??
2011-03-31 04:11 <kristianpaul> https://code.google.com/p/heekscad/issues/detail?id=114
2011-03-31 04:11 <kristianpaul> looks at wpwrak 
2011-03-31 04:11 <kristianpaul> I'm getting the same error on my debian stable mipsel..
2011-03-31 04:12 <kristianpaul> I wonder if you solved it?
2011-03-31 04:15 <kristianpaul> hmm
2011-03-31 04:16 <kristianpaul> checking mesa versions
2011-03-31 05:02 <kyak> mth: i think you can just do it :)
2011-03-31 05:40 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (on debian stable mipsel) you're running heekscad on mipsel ?
2011-03-31 05:45 <wpwrak> yay, mail flows again
2011-03-31 06:40 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: enlarged USB positioning pin hole; general cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f4342f4
2011-03-31 06:40 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: bumped PCB and fab version numbers to 110330, for consistency with atusb http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/7e51234
2011-03-31 09:22 <panda|x201> wolfspraul, oh, yeah ~
2011-03-31 10:01 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/INFO: corrected island size of QFN32-VHHD-2 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6ae1aa6
2011-03-31 10:55 <whitequark> DDDDD1DN
2011-03-31 10:55 <whitequark> N
2011-03-31 10:56 <kyak> i totally agree
2011-03-31 10:56 <kyak> a fucked up day
2011-03-31 10:57 <whitequark> oh. that was not intentional :/
2011-03-31 10:59 <Jay7> hehe :)
2011-03-31 10:59 <Jay7> +1 to sentence above
2011-03-31 11:00 <kyak> =5<=>3> ?@02>A;02=>3> C=8:>40 =8:>340 =5 ?><5H05B ;)
2011-03-31 11:03 <whitequark> the combination of crappy wifi, huge packet loss, irssi and wrong keyboard layout isn't very good
2011-03-31 11:04 <C-Keen> whitequark: that's the source of the best conversations :)
2011-03-31 11:07 <kyak> rule of a thumb: when your terminal is stuck, whatever you do, don't press Enter :)
2011-03-31 11:08 <whitequark> kyak: you can do ~. in ssh session, that escape sequence drops it immediately, but it only works following a newline
2011-03-31 11:09 <whitequark> and N is ~. in russian layout
2011-03-31 11:11 <kyak> whitequark: it's ok, i don't blame you :)
2011-03-31 11:20 <whitequark> well, I guess most of people on this channel don't know what these symbols mean...
2011-03-31 11:44 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: you'll like this: http://www.google.com/+1/button/
2011-03-31 13:48 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: yeah! +1 powa!
2011-03-31 13:56 <qi-bot> [commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4740: Convert to new irq functions http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/e7c93ce
2011-03-31 13:56 <qi-bot> [commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4740: GPIO: Use common irq chip for all gpios http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/bd61961
2011-03-31 13:56 <qi-bot> [commit] Lars-Peter Clausen: MIPS: JZ4740: Set one-shot feature flag for the clockevent http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/b0a5336
2011-03-31 14:01 <tuxbrain> hey rusian faction whitequark, Jay7, kyak , and other custom wise, and ok and wolfspraul you too :P , now seriously  a rusian nanonoter   need our help please http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-March/007644.html
2011-03-31 14:04 <Jay7> tuxbrain: there is small possibility for me to attend on LinuxTag
2011-03-31 14:05 <Jay7> I can try to bring it there.. but I'm still unsure
2011-03-31 14:06 <Jay7> well, I should go now
2011-03-31 14:06 <Jay7> afk for some hours
2011-03-31 14:56 <whitequark> tuxbrain: regarding the nanonote, there really is a law which forbids importing of unauthorized crypto devices
2011-03-31 14:57 <whitequark> but for NN, this is not the case AFAIK, as that law only applies to _hardware_ crypto devices
2011-03-31 14:57 <whitequark> there is no AES/etc. in processor itself, and no wireless devices or others which include crypto cores
2011-03-31 14:58 <whitequark> so, while I'm of course not a lawyer, it should not require any action for sharism to distribute NNs in russia
2011-03-31 14:59 <whitequark> in this particular case, it's probably just greedy customs wanting a bribe
2011-03-31 15:03 <wpwrak> whitequark: seems that someone didn't get the drift
2011-03-31 15:04 <wpwrak> whitequark: atben/atusb will be fun. they have AES in the transceiver. luckily, even the US .gov has realized that this isn't a treat to them and have lifted the export restrictions that existed previously for that chip. (last time i checked, they still had them for quite similar chips from TI)
2011-03-31 15:07 <whitequark> wpwrak: I'm sure they know perfectly what is really legal and illegal. they just want more money
2011-03-31 15:09 <whitequark> regarding the atben. i don't know much about export restrictions, and the bad thing here is import ones. basically they do it because they want to know that there is a way to decrypt anything you'll transmit in reasonable time
2011-03-31 15:09 <whitequark> i think that ssh with a certain key length is technically illegal too
2011-03-31 15:10 <wpwrak> whitequark: good luck enforcing that ;-)
2011-03-31 15:10 <whitequark> anyway, all these restrictions aren't there to prevent illegal activites. they exist just to get a reason to blame someone
2011-03-31 15:11 <whitequark> i.e. "everyone is criminal"
2011-03-31 15:11 <whitequark> something like that
2011-03-31 15:11 <whitequark> wpwrak: there are more problems with wireless modules. unless you are using an already-done wireless part, you'll need to get a certificate for it
2011-03-31 15:12 <whitequark> in US/Europe you need "FCC Approved" mark too AFAIK
2011-03-31 15:14 <wpwrak> it seems that you can bypass import restrictions in many cases by labeling such things as "kits" (i.e., unfinished)
2011-03-31 15:14 <whitequark> regarding the AES, well, no one is bothered about that. probably the people you'll work with here won't know what AES is
2011-03-31 15:14 <whitequark> hm. it should work in the ISM band then, I guess
2011-03-31 15:14 <wpwrak> it probably also helps to keep the (declared and intuitive) value low
2011-03-31 15:14 <roh> whitequark: ignore us exports. just import only.
2011-03-31 15:14 <wpwrak> it's ISM, yes. 2.4 GHz
2011-03-31 15:15 <whitequark> wpwrak: well, you can actually sell them as kits, why not?:) it's fun soldering smd rf parts!
2011-03-31 15:18 <wpwrak> whitequark: that would be one choice ;-) heh, tuxbrain, are you listening ? maybe keep a few parts kits for really difficult cases :)
2011-03-31 15:19 <wpwrak> whitequark: perhaps the absence of a case and instead a pack of silicone would make it plausible enough that it is truly a kit. of course, the RF side would be all made and tested ...
2011-03-31 15:21 <whitequark> wpwrak: selling a board separately from case, huh. that's truly russian way of solving such problems
2011-03-31 15:24 <wpwrak> whitequark: i take this as meaning "clever, ingenious" :)
2011-03-31 15:27 <whitequark> this too, of course. but the main meaning of that phrase is "a clever (and a little absurd) solution which was only required because of meaningless, and perfectly absurd, problem which came out of stupidity"
2011-03-31 15:28 <wpwrak> sounds perfectly fine to me :)
2011-03-31 15:29 <wpwrak> we have that sort of stuff in argentina as well. once, i made the mistake of trying to mail-order some gadget (a sharp zaurus) with payment from my bank account in argentina. first of all, whenever money crosses the border, this is not something one can do just via e-banking. no, you have to go to the bank for this.
2011-03-31 15:29 <whitequark> that's even funny... first several times. it isn't when practically everything is done that way
2011-03-31 15:30 <whitequark> you can encounter a whole stack of absurd problems, depending on each other and first on the last
2011-03-31 15:31 <wpwrak> second, in this case, you actually have to go to the bank's office for foreign commerce (i.e., not just to the next branch office), fill out something like four forms, and present them a quote for the purchase. furthermore, you have to return to the bank once you have received the goods, and show them the customs forms, so that they can verify that you did indeed use this for an import, and close the transaction.
2011-03-31 15:34 <wpwrak> now, in this case, there was a snag. the product wasn't available anymore. so the distributor returned my payment. unfortunately, it came from a different account than the one to which i had paid. the bank refused to accept these two as "matching". so they requested some additional verification (forgot what that was), but then considered that also this wasn't enough.
2011-03-31 15:35 <wpwrak> in the end, we worked out the following deal: they would unblock the returned payment, i would then withdraw this, go to another bank, buy a cheque denominated in yen (that's what the original payment had been in) for the original amount, then go back to my bank, and they would cash the cheque and cancel/resolve the transaction.
2011-03-31 15:36 <wpwrak> lesson learned: never use an account in argentina for such transactions. instead, usw an account money abroad, where all this is done with a mouse click.
2011-03-31 15:43 <kyak> tuxbrain: the guy has only one option - go to the customs office himself and fight-fight-fight, and hope for the luck
2011-03-31 15:44 <kyak> knock the doors, write claims and so on
2011-03-31 17:02 <tuxbrain> kyak, Jay7, whitequark I'm also pushing on my side, with the UPS and my local courier at my side as angry costumer, last time I had problems of this kind, finally I was able to convince autorities NN was a fucking dictionary, let's see If I succed this time again.
2011-03-31 17:10 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: which country was this ?
2011-03-31 17:11 <Jay7> russia
2011-03-31 17:12 <wpwrak> Jay7: your ben ? :)
2011-03-31 17:12 <Jay7> no, my ben come from CELF
2011-03-31 17:13 <Jay7> w/o any problems but delivery was 2 month
2011-03-31 17:13 <wpwrak> Jay7: a problem in itself :)
2011-03-31 17:14 <Jay7> problem is in russian customs law and customs people
2011-03-31 17:14 <Jay7> e.g. it may be stolen on customs
2011-03-31 17:14 <Jay7> so tuxbrain is lucky because he got NN back
2011-03-31 17:15 <Jay7> only really working way is delivery with some relative :)
2011-03-31 17:16 <Jay7> someone who flight from spain to russia e.g.
2011-03-31 17:16 <wpwrak> Jay7: seems that in the current case, the prospective owner will cross the border often, and expects to be searched.
2011-03-31 17:17 <wpwrak> Jay7: not sure how realistic this assumption is. do russian customs really go through your luggage looking for undeclared cryptographical devices ?
2011-03-31 17:17 <Jay7> wpwrak: not your luggage
2011-03-31 17:18 <Jay7> parcells
2011-03-31 17:18 <wpwrak> Jay7: around here, they're mainly interested in valuables or drugs.
2011-03-31 17:18 <Jay7> if your parcel contain something which may do crypto it going to hold
2011-03-31 17:18 <wpwrak> Jay7: so traveling shouldn;t be an issue then
2011-03-31 17:19 <Jay7> waiting one month for some 'notification' (possible only for organization, not for physical person)
2011-03-31 17:19 <wpwrak> Jay7: yeah, similar to argentina. ship anything with a power cord and it's likely to cause trouble. carry it with you and nobody cares.
2011-03-31 17:19 <Jay7> if there was no notification, they are sent parcell back
2011-03-31 17:19 <Jay7> wpwrak: they are CRAZY
2011-03-31 17:19 <wpwrak> Jay7: "broker" = the guy who arranges the bribe, correct ?
2011-03-31 17:19 <Jay7> I have no better words :)
2011-03-31 17:19 <Jay7> wpwrak: kind of :)
2011-03-31 17:19 <whitequark> Jay7: so are you from russia too?
2011-03-31 17:20 <wpwrak> Jay7: you;d feel right at home in argentina ;-)
2011-03-31 17:20 <Jay7> almost all customs brockers have some ways to go through customs but with some bribe :)
2011-03-31 17:20 <Jay7> whitequark: yes :)
2011-03-31 17:20 <Jay7> wpwrak: hm.. I like that country more and more :))
2011-03-31 17:21 <wpwrak> Jay7: we have better weather ;-)
2011-03-31 17:21 <Jay7> sure :)
2011-03-31 17:23 <Jay7> wpwrak: what about some job for opensource guys? :)
2011-03-31 17:23 <Jay7> in argentina I mean :)
2011-03-31 17:24 <Jay7> I've talked with lawyer btw some time ago
2011-03-31 17:25 <Jay7> official import of anything will increase price about 50-200%
2011-03-31 17:25 <Jay7> so.. no way
2011-03-31 17:27 <whitequark> Jay7: how do you think, would the 'kit' trick work?
2011-03-31 17:28 <Jay7> whitequark: may be.. something like developer kit, developer sample or (as tuxbrain said) dictionary
2011-03-31 17:28 <whitequark> I mean, for the RF parts
2011-03-31 17:28 <whitequark> to aviod certification
2011-03-31 17:28 <wpwrak> Jay7: (open source jobs) locally, the situation is piss-poor. but you have the internet ...
2011-03-31 17:29 <Jay7> you shouldn't do certification if you have no plan for sale
2011-03-31 17:29 <Jay7> iirc
2011-03-31 17:29 <Jay7> wpwrak: .. then I may work from any place of the world :)
2011-03-31 17:30 <wpwrak> Jay7: (official import) 50% doesn't sound all bad. around here, we have about 50% of import taxes. consumer electronics are often sold at about twice the US price, sometimes more. nice margins, wouldn't you say so ? :)
2011-03-31 17:30 <Jay7> wpwrak: same thing here
2011-03-31 17:30 <whitequark> Jay7: I thought tuxbrain was going to sell them. not for profit, probably, but that still counts as sale
2011-03-31 17:30 <wpwrak> Jay7: (any place of the world) that's basically what I do ;-)
2011-03-31 17:30 <Jay7> whitequark: I have no prob with certification
2011-03-31 17:31 <wpwrak> whitequark: i very much hope he does make some profit :)
2011-03-31 17:31 <Jay7> and personally I have no prob with crypto notification
2011-03-31 17:32 <Jay7> I'm just lucky seems :)
2011-03-31 17:33 <whitequark> wpwrak: sure :)
2011-03-31 17:48 <tuxbrain> whitequark: don't guet confused I love copyleft hardware philosophy but I'm doing this for profit than will one day eventually apear some place :P
2011-03-31 17:49 <tuxbrain> Btw what do you thing is the cripto they have detected in NN?
2011-03-31 17:51 <lars_> ssh
2011-03-31 17:51 <lars_> ;)
2011-03-31 17:54 <tuxbrain> lars_: ouch!
2011-03-31 17:55 <wpwrak> rot13 ... no, it doesn't have that :)
2011-03-31 17:57 <Jay7> tuxbrain: they are looking for possible crypto application of device
2011-03-31 17:58 <Jay7> i.e. if device have CPU capable to run some crypto code it may be decided as crypto device
2011-03-31 17:58 <Jay7> they are crazy as I said before
2011-03-31 17:58 <whitequark> tuxbrain: practically that's better imo. when one's going to make profit, he usually does things much better than some fanatic :)
2011-03-31 17:59 <Jay7> sure there are some non-crazy people who doens't holding things w/o real crypto apps
2011-03-31 17:59 <Jay7> but you know.. there are some crazy people who doing this
2011-03-31 17:59 <whitequark> Jay7: is that true? I've never heard of _that_ stupidity, and that looks like ravings of a madman
2011-03-31 18:00 <whitequark> I mean, about 'possible crypto uses'
2011-03-31 18:00 <Jay7> whitequark: I'm sure they have some devices list/categories
2011-03-31 18:00 <kristianpaul> wow https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:World_Map_Index_of_perception_of_corruption_2010.svg
2011-03-31 18:00 <Jay7> but I'm sure any embedded motherboard may be hold on customs as possible crypto device
2011-03-31 18:01 <Jay7> as any PDA, phone, etc
2011-03-31 18:01 <Jay7> but most of wide-used devices already have 'notifications'
2011-03-31 18:01 <Jay7> so they have no problems
2011-03-31 18:01 <Jay7> new or non-wide-used devices have problems usually
2011-03-31 18:01 <whitequark> phones are already certified crypto devices
2011-03-31 18:02 <whitequark> as most modern pdas have wifi/gsm module, they should be too
2011-03-31 18:02 <whitequark> btw, the map is impressive
2011-03-31 18:03 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (corruption) those lame colombians :)
2011-03-31 18:03 <kristianpaul> lol ;)
2011-03-31 18:04 <whitequark> any turing-complete cpu may run some crypto code, hm. and you can get a turing machine with your brain, pen and a piece of paper. they definitely should forbid all of the above
2011-03-31 18:04 <Jay7> we have lot of laws that are actively used only for bribes taking
2011-03-31 18:04 <Jay7> e.g. law about personal data security
2011-03-31 18:04 <Jay7> it have nothing common with real data security
2011-03-31 18:05 <Jay7> you just should buy special software/hardware or pay for certifications
2011-03-31 18:06 <Jay7> good is that small business are out of area of interest :)
2011-03-31 18:09 <kristianpaul> hmm rusia have same paypal issue like in colombia (not allowed to receive money)
2011-03-31 18:09 <kristianpaul> :(
2011-03-31 18:12 <rm> hey kristianpaul
2011-03-31 18:12 <rm> what was the question again
2011-03-31 18:13 <kristianpaul> hi
2011-03-31 18:13 <kristianpaul> tuxbrain: sent a Nanonote toa  guy in rusia
2011-03-31 18:14 <kristianpaul> as this is a microcomputer that have a cryptographic software installed by default
2011-03-31 18:14 <rm> ok... aaand
2011-03-31 18:14 <kristianpaul> Nanonote will come back to spain
2011-03-31 18:15 <rm> do you have a confirmation it is declined by customs?
2011-03-31 18:15 <kristianpaul> FSB/customs seems have laws about this stuff
2011-03-31 18:15 <rm> or are you just guessing
2011-03-31 18:15 <kristianpaul> no no, tuxbrain drop a mail
2011-03-31 18:15 <kristianpaul> second i'll find archive
2011-03-31 18:16 <kristianpaul> rm: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-March/007644.html
2011-03-31 18:16 <kristianpaul> So i wonder how do you get the lemote, or if you have some recomendation/tought with this issue
2011-03-31 18:17 <kristianpaul> THe goal will be dmitry get his nanonote
2011-03-31 18:17 <kristianpaul> rm: are you in russia right? :-)
2011-03-31 18:19 <rm> yes
2011-03-31 18:19 <rm> I never heard of any such problems
2011-03-31 18:19 <kristianpaul> oh, really :o
2011-03-31 18:19 <rm> people in russia order devices like Chinese iPads by 1000s
2011-03-31 18:19 <kristianpaul> So what you think happened?
2011-03-31 18:19 <lars_> wpwrak: tr A-Za-z N-ZA-Mn-za-m
2011-03-31 18:20 <rm> and we were purchasing Lemotes in 3 separate shipments, no problems with either of those
2011-03-31 18:20 <rm> and one person received Efika MX too
2011-03-31 18:20 <rm> etc etc etc
2011-03-31 18:21 <kristianpaul> okay, please stay here, i'll sure more question will rise about this topic
2011-03-31 18:21 <rm> is the guy also here?
2011-03-31 18:21 <kristianpaul> you think is better ship the nanonote from china instead of spain  may be?
2011-03-31 18:21 <kristianpaul> dunno
2011-03-31 18:22 <rm> so my suggestion for now is to not use UPS
2011-03-31 18:22 <wpwrak> lars_: you ... crypto-terrorist !!!
2011-03-31 18:22 <rm> Lemotes were shipped using EMS
2011-03-31 18:22 <rm> and other products I mentioned routinely come by regular post
2011-03-31 18:23 <rm> (with tracking)
2011-03-31 18:23 <kristianpaul> Any toughs about UPS  there?
2011-03-31 18:23 <rm> also I would suggest to not send him a refund
2011-03-31 18:23 <rm> until QI actually gets the device back
2011-03-31 18:23 <rm> how do you know what he says is even true
2011-03-31 18:24 <kristianpaul> i dunno, tuxbrain may explain that later
2011-03-31 18:24 <Jay7> rm: I have no such problems before too
2011-03-31 18:25 <Jay7> but I know people who can't get some device because there is no 'notification' on customs
2011-03-31 18:25 <tuxbrain> rm no but I can suggest him to connect,  whatever I have talked directly with that guy, tomorrow I will recive answer from UPS, so you suggest better regular post better than UPS in case of Rusia?
2011-03-31 18:26 <Jay7> ah
2011-03-31 18:26 <Jay7> I've missed
2011-03-31 18:26 <Jay7> tuxbrain: was it UPS?
2011-03-31 18:26 <rm> not sure
2011-03-31 18:26 <tuxbrain> I will also ask the guy if the have any document about that rejection from customs.
2011-03-31 18:26 <Jay7> UPS doesn't doing delivery to physical persons in Russia iirc
2011-03-31 18:27 <rm> but I believe UPS is by far the less common method of shipment to Russia
2011-03-31 18:27 <wpwrak> fedex are usually quite good at avoiding the minor annoyances
2011-03-31 18:27 <rm> usually it's either the regular post, or EMS
2011-03-31 18:27 <rm> and perhaps both of those know special tricks on how to work with customs
2011-03-31 18:27 <rm> rather, EMS knows
2011-03-31 18:27 <tuxbrain> mmmm ok I will take this in acount on next shipment
2011-03-31 18:27 <rm> and the regular just has a huge volume
2011-03-31 18:27 <rm> and is not looked through too strictly
2011-03-31 18:28 <rm> that's just guesses
2011-03-31 18:28 <Jay7> yes, I got my NN here via regular post
2011-03-31 18:28 <Jay7> and efika mx via fedex
2011-03-31 18:29 <Jay7> but I'll prefer EMS this time just because of speed
2011-03-31 18:29 <Jay7> well.. because of regular post slow speed :)
2011-03-31 18:47 <roh> ah.
2011-03-31 18:47 <roh> http://freaklabs.org/index.php/Blog/Chibi/
2011-03-31 18:47 <roh> that sounds kinda interresting
2011-03-31 19:17 <tuxbrain> roh wow yes it is :)
2011-03-31 19:23 <roh> didnt read these slides but sounds fitting...
2011-03-31 19:23 <roh> http://freaklabs.org/index.php/Blog/News/6LoWPAN-and-CoRE-Tutorials.html
2011-03-31 20:24 <viric> hm some times I forget to join the channel
2011-03-31 21:09 <tuxbrain> roh I have readed the slides, and well... the first one seems more interesting than second one, take note on the "seems" due I have really not understand nothing from the first one , the second one CoRE, is about the aplication level and I have understand it slightly better and I found it a little "light" but I don't know if it's because there is no real specification yet or because of the author want's to keep it as it is for coherence with the targ
2011-03-31 21:09 <tuxbrain> et audience
2011-03-31 21:12 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: which is the distance btwenn pins on the atusb-prg? yes I can try to print a atusb on paper and mesure it but I'm a fucking lazy spaniard
2011-03-31 21:13 <roh> the chip on that chibiduino board seems the same like on the atben/usb
2011-03-31 21:14 <roh> well.. its the 'old' version 230 not 231.. but i think they were pin-compatible.
2011-03-31 21:15 <roh> in the end they should be able to communicate with each other.. so that board is like a perfect fit if people want to build own stuff to talk to the atben or atusb
2011-03-31 21:15 <roh> dunno how easy these boards are available. or if it makes sense to order a larger number to europe from japan
2011-03-31 21:16 <roh> i guess these guys have other problems there right now. i dont dare to even mail him right now. akihaba hackspace in tokyo does support-work right now. building and giving out solar lamps and such
2011-03-31 21:16 <tuxbrain> auch japanish? I though they where US... japan customs are also a nighmare ....
2011-03-31 21:17 <roh> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/03/hackerspace-happenings-make-interviews-tokyos-akiba.html
2011-03-31 21:19 <roh> http://www.tokyohackerspace.org/
2011-03-31 21:34 <tuxbrain> roh: oh man...:( I will keep an eye on updates to see if they publish that list of needed items and if I can help in some way.... a 10% of happened there happens in spain, riots and madness and robbery had caused more victims than the event itself ... I admire japanish people...
2011-03-31 21:34 <tuxbrain> a 10%-> if a 10%
2011-03-31 21:37 <roh> tuxbrain: true.
2011-03-31 21:37 <roh> yet i was very happy when i got note of my friends there being on a plane to the us
2011-03-31 21:37 <roh> took quite some work to get them to leave
2011-03-31 21:40 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: (atusb-pgm) 100 mil. see also ben-wpan/atusb-pgm/ :-)
2011-03-31 21:41 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: if sharism.cc won't do any production of ben-wpan, then adam should send you his samples. they include two atusb-pgm boards.
2011-03-31 21:43 <wpwrak> roh: (230 vs. 231) they're not exactly pin compatible but very similar. the 230 has a few quirks that have been solved in the 231. e.g., that an incoming new frame can overwrite an old frame that's not been retrieved yet.
2011-03-31 21:47 <tuxbrain> 100 mil=100 milimeters? I don't think so... what unit is mil.
2011-03-31 21:48 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: units 100mil mm
2011-03-31 21:48 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: (atusb-pgm boards) ok for me but just one is enough
2011-03-31 21:49 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: mayme you know them as "thou". the australians call them that way. in the us and most other places, it's mil, though
2011-03-31 21:49 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: (atusb-pgm) you want a backup for when it breaks :)
2011-03-31 21:50 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: I will make my machine then :P
2011-03-31 21:51 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: equivalence in milimeters please ...
2011-03-31 21:51 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: 1 mil = 1/1000 inch; 100 mil = 2.54 mm
2011-03-31 21:53 <tuxbrain> ok so practically the standar distantance that now undestand why has such fancy amount :)
2011-03-31 21:53 <wpwrak> yeah ;-)
2011-03-31 21:54 <wpwrak> you also get 6, 8, 10, etc. mil traces and such
2011-03-31 21:55 <steve|m> wpwrak: thanks by the way regarding the mini usb lib, worked fine
2011-03-31 21:57 <tuxbrain> there are plenty of pins  on my shelf and also protoboards (those to solder with holes) with such distance so I can make my own , the led +resistor has only the function to aknowledge something is happening isn't it? we can live without that if needed.
2011-03-31 21:57 <wpwrak> steve|m: great ! :)
2011-03-31 21:58 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: yes, you don't need the led. of course, it helps if you can see when things are done without having to look at the pc/ben.
2011-03-31 22:00 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: btw, how many atusb will you ask the pcb fab to make ?
2011-03-31 22:01 <tuxbrain> 500
2011-03-31 22:01 <tuxbrain> now they are multiple of 10 :)
2011-03-31 22:02 <wpwrak> okay, good
2011-03-31 22:06 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: you'll also need the samples adam has for setting up the testing process
2011-03-31 22:07 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: yes that would be good
2011-03-31 22:07 <tuxbrain> I will have my wpan NN ! yay!
2011-03-31 22:07 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: for testing, what equipment will you have access to ? voltmeter, oscilloscope, spectrum analyzer, usrp, vector signal analyzer/generator, ... ?
2011-03-31 22:08 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: you should just get everything adam has (i.e., 2 atben, 2 atusb, and 2 atusb-pgm). you can always send him some production units later.
2011-03-31 22:09 <tuxbrain> that's for sure :) his falcon eye can see things that we can just imagine :P
2011-03-31 22:10 <tuxbrain> falcon or better said elf :)
2011-03-31 22:25 <wpwrak> ;-))
2011-03-31 22:25 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: he hasn't commented on the boards yet. so i guess he's really overloaded and didn't have time to look at them yet, or he didn't spot any obvious problems.
2011-03-31 22:29 <tuxbrain> I think the first one is very probable, but we can't also dismiss your blacksmith skills :)
2011-03-31 22:36 <tuxbrain> wpwrak:(equipment) hahahahaahahahaahah
2011-03-31 22:36 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: ah no , are you talking seriously?
2011-03-31 22:37 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: well, was kidding about the vector signal thingy. they tend to be expensive. think sports car. pricy sports car, not just some cheap BMW ;-)
2011-03-31 22:38 <tuxbrain> ok volmeter.... and ..... a volmeter.... and.... yes is the same volmeter
2011-03-31 22:38 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: but for the rest, what do you have access to ? (own / can borrow / they have it at the smt fab)
2011-03-31 22:39 <tuxbrain> I will ask smt fab, they "invite" me to their instalations to record the mounting process of the boards with the cam
2011-03-31 22:40 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: (invite) excellent. it's also good if you can test at least some board immediately when they come off the line. that way, you can spot mistakes that might just trash the entire run.
2011-03-31 22:40 <wpwrak> s/board/boards/
2011-03-31 22:41 <tuxbrain> but even having access to the devices... I don't have idea on how to use them, I had used an osciloscope once about 15 years ago
2011-03-31 22:41 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: oh dear ;-) do you know people who have such things, either at home, at work, at their university, ... ?
2011-03-31 22:42 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: an oscilloscope would be useful for detecting why a problem board fails. there are a few typical patterns you can spot easily (i.e., within seconds)
2011-03-31 22:42 <tuxbrain> they are funny things with a bright green dot than somtimes move
2011-03-31 22:42 <tuxbrain> and a lot of buttons
2011-03-31 22:43 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: modern scope have that big "auto" button that does all the setup for you. works most of the time ;-)
2011-03-31 22:44 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: now, a spectrum analyzer or usrp would be useful for checking RF performance. you can also use an atben/atusb for that, but it's a lot more convenient with a spectrum analyzer
2011-03-31 22:46 <wpwrak> (usrp can act as a spectrum analyzer. if you know people at a university or at companies that do RF R&D, you may want to ask them if they have an analyzer or an usrp)
2011-03-31 22:46 <tuxbrain> Ok I have some candidates that can have some of that :)
2011-03-31 22:47 <tuxbrain> I will ask them
2011-03-31 22:47 <wpwrak> they would also know how to operate it. since your run is small, there shouldn't be a problem for them to let you spend a few hours in their lab.
2011-03-31 22:47 <wpwrak> perfect
2011-03-31 22:48 <tuxbrain> is sleepy
2011-03-31 22:49 <roh> yay. friday. weekend
2011-03-31 22:49 <tuxbrain> gn8 guys, I will dream with green bright stripes and a alot of unknown and magical terms like spectrum and megaherz
2011-03-31 22:51 <wpwrak> gigahertz ! :)
2011-03-31 22:51 <wpwrak> roh: weekday, weekend, it's all a blur, isn't it ? :)
2011-03-31 22:51 <tuxbrain> 2400 MegaHerz :P
2011-03-31 22:51 <roh> wpwrak: depends