2011-03-24 01:22 <wpwrak> rjeffries: i don't think this is how it works. there are other marks with crosshairs, but they have a different role. the idea behind the fiduciary is that it's on the copper layer, which is the reference for everything else, and the resolution for lines/traces there is limited
2011-03-24 01:36 <wpwrak> rjeffries: at least now i understand what these strange circles do. before, i thought they were supposed to be ground points for use during testing. yet, strangely enough, they often didn't connect to any ground ...
2011-03-24 01:46 <wpwrak> grr. s/fiduciary/fiducial/
2011-03-24 01:50 <kristianpaul> oh dear, big storm today :S
2011-03-24 01:51 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: ah that's where it went. for today, heavy rain was announce for buenos aires. i went shopping tonight, hoping to get a free car wash. but not a single drop fell.
2011-03-24 01:54 <kristianpaul> drops are , but Lightning and wind are getting anoying..
2011-03-24 01:54 <kristianpaul> are oka*
2011-03-24 02:01 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: as long as there are no power cuts ... :)
2011-03-24 02:01 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: two atm
2011-03-24 02:01 <kristianpaul> very short
2011-03-24 02:02 <kristianpaul> UPS is strong (up 6 hrs) also all my computers are low power :_)
2011-03-24 02:05 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (6 hours) wow
2011-03-24 02:05 <kristianpaul> as i said my computers are low power :-)
2011-03-24 02:05 <kristianpaul> is a cheap USP
2011-03-24 02:05 <kristianpaul> ups*
2011-03-24 02:13 <mth> can anyone test this on the NanoNote? "hwclock -ru ; sleep 10 ; hwclock -ru"
2011-03-24 02:14 <mth> under OpenDingux way more than 10 seconds pass on the hardware clock
2011-03-24 02:14 <mth> in fact, the RTC seems to be running 1024x faster than it should
2011-03-24 02:29 <mth> lars_: who should program JZ_REG_RTC_REGULATOR? the boot loader? the board init code? the RTC driver?
2011-03-24 02:46 <kristianpaul> he, ethernet cord is a bit loose :_)
2011-03-24 02:46 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: I have some pics !
2011-03-24 02:47 <kristianpaul> i'll upload
2011-03-24 02:51 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: cool!
2011-03-24 03:00 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: multi upload dont support multi file description ;-)
2011-03-24 03:01 <wolfspraul> yes, I think you are right
2011-03-24 03:10 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul:  OBK-3130C default lense is M12 right?
2011-03-24 03:13 <wolfspraul> the lense holder, yes
2011-03-24 03:13 <wolfspraul> I think all your lense holders are M12, no?
2011-03-24 03:13 <wolfspraul> 12 = 12mm
2011-03-24 03:13 <wolfspraul> M9 = 9mm
2011-03-24 03:13 <wolfspraul> M12 = 12mm
2011-03-24 03:13 <wolfspraul> that's just the size of the thread
2011-03-24 03:13 <wolfspraul> there are other sizes like back focal length etc. that have to match for it to focus
2011-03-24 03:14 <wpwrak> reviving xue ?
2011-03-24 03:14 <kristianpaul> okay, i'll upload pics with default lense for all tree cameras and same "landscape"
2011-03-24 03:15 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: no, thinking about including a camera with Milkymist One
2011-03-24 03:16 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: how you in english  un vaso grande para tomar agua y demas?
2011-03-24 03:16 <wolfspraul> maybe some of those insights can be used to revive a mobile milkymist or mobile camera project one day, but right now it's very specifically about whether/which camera to include with Milkymist One
2011-03-24 03:16 <kristianpaul> i wonder all the names in english for that... :o
2011-03-24 03:17 <kristianpaul> ah, holder..
2011-03-24 03:17 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: hmm, not quite sure if there's such an expression in english
2011-03-24 03:17 <kristianpaul> ok i'll just call it gree vaso
2011-03-24 03:17 <kristianpaul> cilinder**
2011-03-24 03:17 <kristianpaul> more generic
2011-03-24 03:17 <mth> lars_: the Dingoo native OS is to blame: apparently the power-on setting is 1Hz, but the native OS reprograms it to 100 Hz (not 1 kHz as I thought) and that reprogramming survives a push of the reset button
2011-03-24 03:19 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: wouldn't the camera be very specific to the use(r) ? well, i guess it can't hurt to have an optional "first steps" camera for someone who just wants to explore
2011-03-24 03:19 <wpwrak> (waiting for asia to reconnect ...)
2011-03-24 03:20 <kristianpaul> :_))
2011-03-24 03:20 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: so far from what i can see it is meant to be generic camera
2011-03-24 03:21 <kristianpaul> or what you mean with veryspecific?
2011-03-24 03:21 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: a good one or just something cheap that works ?
2011-03-24 03:21 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: actually the camera i liked was not the cheap one
2011-03-24 03:22 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: well, if you go to a club, you may have specific needs depending on the scene. and if you want a camera that can handle "anything", it would probably quite expensive
2011-03-24 03:22 <kristianpaul> wait some minutes i'm uploading some pics i hope explain better
2011-03-24 03:22 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: sure, for club we need to be very picky
2011-03-24 03:22 <kristianpaul> lux*** picky :-)
2011-03-24 03:22 <kristianpaul> equals expensive !
2011-03-24 03:22 <kristianpaul> yes
2011-03-24 03:23 <wpwrak> yup. low light, wide focus/zoom range, etc. probably right in the semi-professional segment. USD 1k+
2011-03-24 03:23 <kristianpaul> focus is other history indeed
2011-03-24 03:25 <kristianpaul> so all what we found now lets call it cheap after your nice point about semi-professional stuff :-)
2011-03-24 03:27 <wpwrak> hehe :)
2011-03-24 03:28 <wpwrak> what's actually the maximum camera resolution mm1 can handle ?
2011-03-24 03:28 <kristianpaul> there is a chip for composite video, NTSC/PAL..
2011-03-24 03:29 <kristianpaul> i dont remenber the specs
2011-03-24 03:30 <kristianpaul> but PAL resolutios is given in TV lines i think
2011-03-24 03:30 <wpwrak> hmm, if it's only VGA or such, then that would mean a fairly unsophisticated camera
2011-03-24 03:30 <kristianpaul> oh, sure
2011-03-24 03:30 <kristianpaul> flicernoise dont work on HD (yet)
2011-03-24 03:31 <kristianpaul> flickernoise*
2011-03-24 03:31 <wpwrak> half of asia is back ...
2011-03-24 03:32 <kristianpaul> ;)
2011-03-24 03:32 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Xue/sensors#Milkymist_One_camera_comparison
2011-03-24 03:36 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: hmm, a comparison shot with a reasonably good still image camera (i.e., a real camera, not a mobile phone) might be useful
2011-03-24 03:37 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: i used my canon a470 for pics
2011-03-24 03:37 <kristianpaul> screenshots are not posible yet
2011-03-24 03:37 <wpwrak> argh
2011-03-24 03:37 <kristianpaul> I just a pic from LCD
2011-03-24 03:37 <kristianpaul> yeah :(
2011-03-24 03:38 <kristianpaul> what is real camera for you?
2011-03-24 03:38 <wpwrak> canon a-series is okay-ish
2011-03-24 03:38 <kristianpaul> ah good :-)
2011-03-24 03:38 <kristianpaul> i was scared ;)
2011-03-24 03:40 <wpwrak> of course, a Canon EOS 5D Mark II or similar would be better (-:C
2011-03-24 03:41 <kristianpaul> i'll stick for nanon as is i can run chdk, may be i can buy that after several years of saving ;)
2011-03-24 03:42 <wpwrak> yeah, i'm a canon fan, too. and i also like chdk ;-)
2011-03-24 03:43 <wpwrak> sd880is here. i like 'em small
2011-03-24 03:45 <kristianpaul> not bad, i need better mechanical zoom and aperture, chdk cant add that to hw ;)
2011-03-24 04:12 <kristianpaul> okay, wolfspraul, i still need take pics with less lighe enviroments..
2011-03-24 04:12 <kristianpaul> i think i'm off bed now
2011-03-24 04:12 <kristianpaul> gn8
2011-03-24 05:11 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: wow, great pictures!
2011-03-24 05:11 <wolfspraul> the artefacts are scary, but it's a starting point
2011-03-24 05:11 <wolfspraul> we certainly will not revolutionize hollywood anytime soon :-)
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] nbd: mac80211: initialize the last rx time when creating a station http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3ae6fa1
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] cshore: [package] hotplug2: Added zaptel subsystem to /etc/hotplugs2.rules so that the zaptel kernel module package only needs to had a script to create the correct device nodes (default names differ from what all apps that use zaptel actually use, so a script is necessary). http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/06a1c1c
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] jow: [package] ncurses: install ncurses5-config and ncursesw5-config (#9044) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f73979c
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] thepeople: sysupgrade works on the wp54 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d3db86b
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] jow: [tools] ipkg-utils: utilize the tar -p flag to preserve permissions (#7667) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ebdf118
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] jow: [include] image.mk: only upgrade permissions instead of overwriting, utilize tar -p flag for targz image targets (#7667) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d80e0f1
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] nbd: add support for md5sum checks for mirrored tarballs of packages with version control source urls http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/45e4275
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] nbd: hostapd: update to 2011-02-21, use PKG_MIRROR_MD5SUM, includes fixes for WPS http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f67f195
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] nbd: ath9k: add a patch from linux-wireless@ for reducing driver size http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d692939
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] kaloz: enable the 'big kernel lock' by default http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/5bac584
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] kaloz: [ixp4xx]: add 2.6.38 support http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/70a23a1
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] jow: [include] target.mk: don't enable coreutils by default, it does not even exist anymore... fixes the Image Builder http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/909ceae
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] jow: [ar71xx] fix image generation in the Image Builder environment http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/9579867
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] nbd: hostapd: make entropy collection contribute to the kernel pool http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/2dbaa78
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] nbd: mac80211: update to wireless-testing 2011-03-22 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/5034ff8
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] hcg: [omap35xx] Add patch to correct sub-page alignment http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/09cfea7
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] hcg: [omap35xx] kernel: add CTI usb-id's to FTDI driver http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d88135f
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] hcg: [omap35xx]: Correct CTI patch http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/4a907de
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] nbd: ath9k: merge a pending patch for fixing a stopped queue issue (mostly for client mode) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f8662e2
2011-03-24 06:18 <qi-bot> [commit] nbd: ath9k: add a few de-bloating and optimization patches http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b139cef
2011-03-24 06:20 <kyak> xiangfu: i just updated the trunk :)
2011-03-24 06:20 <kyak> xiangfu: hope it went well... since we didn't commit anything to qi trunk yet
2011-03-24 08:03 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: the images are thrice "analogized" ... i don't think you can really tell what quality you have there before getting digital screenshots. also, things like gamma correction may make a huge difference.
2011-03-24 08:07 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: the photos basically scream "PLEASE correct my gamma !!!" ;-)
2011-03-24 08:11 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atben.brd, atusb.brd: set solder mask opening of fiducials to 2 mm http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/7e20be9
2011-03-24 08:11 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: README-PCB: relaxed antenna via size from 8 mil to <= 15 mil http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/af6d563
2011-03-24 08:11 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atben. atusb: bumped version numbers to 110324 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f242368
2011-03-24 08:11 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atben-110324-overview.png and http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atusb-110324-overview.png
2011-03-24 08:12 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: also, http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/fab/*110324*
2011-03-24 08:17 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: i also checked the prices at digi-key of the major components - no change since i did the last BOM (with prices from february ~14-15)
2011-03-24 08:19 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: thank dude, today I will pretty offline, but I will keep an eye on mail to see if smt vendor finally decide to tell us how much
2011-03-24 08:20 <wpwrak> yeah, they seem to be dancing around that topic. i guess if you have to ask, you can't afford it ;-)
2011-03-24 10:18 <kyak> xMff: ping
2011-03-24 10:20 <xMff> pong
2011-03-24 10:21 <kyak> hey :)
2011-03-24 10:21 <xMff> hi
2011-03-24 10:21 <xMff> hm sorry, I have to run. Will check in later
2011-03-24 10:22 <kyak> xMff: could you explain how CONFIG_ALL works? It's pretty strange, because when i choose it via menuconfig, it doesn't select all packages as "m"
2011-03-24 10:22 <kyak> ok, no problem
2011-03-24 10:22 <kyak> then to make CONFIG_ALL work, i have to rm the .config
2011-03-24 10:23 <kyak> and run menuconfig again and choose the CONFIG_ALL
2011-03-24 10:27 <kyak> it feels like CONFIG_ALL respects those packages, which are already "is not set"
2011-03-24 10:27 <kyak> therefor CONFIG_ALL=y only works the first time you generate .config
2011-03-24 10:46 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: he, well screenshots i think will make things more clear
2011-03-24 10:49 <wolfspraul> yes, we'll get screenshots to work :-)
2011-03-24 10:50 <kristianpaul> i'll try what lekernel said about black background
2011-03-24 10:50 <kristianpaul> take some pics, record a video :-)
2011-03-24 10:53 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: I will also look for a (manual) zoom lense
2011-03-24 10:53 <viric> are the x264 decoders floating-point only?
2011-03-24 10:53 <wolfspraul> thinking about your pictures, I realized a 'good' setting will very much depend on the location/environment
2011-03-24 10:53 <wolfspraul> so that will only work with a zoom lense
2011-03-24 10:55 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul:  (manual) zoom lense
2011-03-24 10:55 <kristianpaul> nice !
2011-03-24 10:56 <kristianpaul> viric: i dont know, but you ask lekernel at #milkymist
2011-03-24 10:57 <kristianpaul> i think they are but not sure at all, i dint take a look at the pfpu
2011-03-24 10:57 <kristianpaul> *yet*
2011-03-24 11:02 <viric> hm ok
2011-03-24 11:02 <viric> thank you!
2011-03-24 11:12 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: so you agree about the zoom lense idea?
2011-03-24 11:12 <wolfspraul> I think our system is not about end-to-end quality right now
2011-03-24 11:12 <wolfspraul> we don't even know where the bottleneck is
2011-03-24 11:13 <wolfspraul> but from a use-case, I think you want to adjust the zoom setting to the location you use the m1 at
2011-03-24 11:13 <wolfspraul> and how is that possible with a fixed zoom lense, whether it's wide angle or not
2011-03-24 11:13 <wolfspraul> so we rather have a manual zoom lense 4-9mm or so
2011-03-24 11:14 <wolfspraul> I need to look at cost, but no matter how cheap a lense we take, I doubt the lense performance will be our optical bottleneck.
2011-03-24 14:09 <kristianpaul> wolfspra1l: (zoom) i agree
2011-03-24 14:10 <kristianpaul> Well, sebastien already point us the main use case for the camera, so that zoom at least you fit that case
2011-03-24 14:28 <wolfspra1l> my network is crazy unstable lately
2011-03-24 14:28 <wolfspra1l> I think the Chinese government is going all out in attack mode
2011-03-24 14:29 <wolfspra1l> hopefully I can get a few more things done today :-)
2011-03-24 14:29 <kristianpaul> :-)
2011-03-24 14:41 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: smt vendor confirm fiducials are ok,
2011-03-24 14:42 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: also smt vendor is in charge to aply the solder paste, so they will be the destinators of the stencils
2011-03-24 14:43 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: but will they need stencils to be made, will they make the stencils themselves, or will they apply the solder paste without stencil ?
2011-03-24 14:44 <tuxbrain> they ask for the stencils, if not they will charge us for them I supose
2011-03-24 14:44 <wpwrak> okay. good. then you need a quote from the pcb fab for the stencil as well.
2011-03-24 14:45 <tuxbrain> this info are not in the gerber files_
2011-03-24 14:45 <tuxbrain> ?
2011-03-24 14:45 <wpwrak> it's just the solder paste layer
2011-03-24 14:45 <wpwrak> but you have to tell the pcb fab that you need a stencil as well, and not just the pcb
2011-03-24 14:46 <tuxbrain> mmm this is not what the tell I guess,
2011-03-24 14:46 <tuxbrain> El proceso normal de un montaje es : recibes los circuitos tal cual , y aquí
2011-03-24 14:46 <tuxbrain> en nuestras instalaciones , primero pasan por Serigrafia  ( donde se aplica
2011-03-24 14:46 <tuxbrain> pasta de soldar , por lo que se necesita una pantalla de Serigrafia )y luego
2011-03-24 14:46 <tuxbrain> pasa a  pick&place y horno
2011-03-24 14:46 <tuxbrain> c&p of the mail
2011-03-24 14:46 <wpwrak> serigrafias = printing, using the stencil
2011-03-24 14:47 <tuxbrain> so I might ask to the pcb vendor to make the stencils isn't it?
2011-03-24 14:49 <tuxbrain> might-> should
2011-03-24 14:49 <wpwrak> yup. there are also different kinds of stencils. but i guess they'll know what the smt fab uses.
2011-03-24 14:49 <tuxbrain> ok
2011-03-24 14:49 <wpwrak> here's an example: http://www.pcbunlimited.com/smt-stencils.php
2011-03-24 14:49 <wpwrak> shouldn't be overly expensive
2011-03-24 14:50 <tuxbrain> I hope so you scared me with the prices of that page
2011-03-24 14:51 <wpwrak> USD 150 ? why ? that's peanuts :)
2011-03-24 14:53 <wpwrak> ah, one thing to cut costs could be to combine atben and atusb on the same panel. you may want to ask the pcb fab if they can do that (and if it really does lower the cost)
2011-03-24 14:53 <tuxbrain> peanuts and water will be my diet in short so for me are quite important :)
2011-03-24 14:53 <wpwrak> drawback: you'd have a fixed atben/atusb ratio
2011-03-24 14:54 <wpwrak> add a beer and a little coffee, and you have something from all the important food groups, i.e., fat, alcohol, caffeine ;-)
2011-03-24 14:54 <tuxbrain> mmm I don't think it will low costs two much... also it has the big draw back than if for example atusb are good selling and atben not, you will have to pay again to do a atusb setup only...
2011-03-24 14:55 <tuxbrain> two->too
2011-03-24 14:57 <wpwrak> yup. okay, not mixing them is cleaner. it's just one option to consider if you must cut costs.
2011-03-24 14:59 <wpwrak> now we just need to find out what the smt would cost :)
2011-03-24 15:00 <tuxbrain> give me a good software stack than make them plug an play and brings up a /dev/wpan0 able to accept dhcp and cost will be reduced by volume :)
2011-03-24 15:01 <wpwrak> network interfaces don't need /dev nodes :)
2011-03-24 15:02 <tuxbrain> more in my fabour
2011-03-24 15:18 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: oh ... i see what you mean. indeed, no solder paste layer in the fab packages. fixing ...
2011-03-24 15:19 <tuxbrain> that means I have not to ask to pcb maker?
2011-03-24 15:19 <wpwrak> no no ... it means that i forgot to include the file ;-)
2011-03-24 15:22 <wpwrak> making these fab packages is a heck of a lot of work. good that the next set will be much easier, with all the tools in place
2011-03-24 15:23 <wpwrak> of course, i'll probably hear adam's scream all the way to buenos aires when he sees this little file: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/makefiles/Makefile.kicad
2011-03-24 15:28 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: ah, have you gotten a response regarding the mounting of the usb connector ? i.e., should the stencil provide solder paste for it ? and if yes, on both sides ? (both sides means that you need either two stencils or a pcb that has half of the parts flipped)
2011-03-24 15:34 <tuxbrain> I they will just will be in charge of the usb due is out of the smt process
2011-03-24 15:35 <wpwrak> parse error :)
2011-03-24 15:35 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: (adam screaming) a real fun image  to have in mind
2011-03-24 15:37 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: so .. what will happen with the usb connector ?
2011-03-24 15:38 <tuxbrain> they will just put in place soldered
2011-03-24 15:38 <wpwrak> you mean they'll solder it by hand ?
2011-03-24 15:39 <wpwrak> or will they insert it by hand, but reflow it with the rest ?
2011-03-24 15:39 <tuxbrain> don't know, ok I will satisfy your curiosity, I will ask :)
2011-03-24 15:40 <wpwrak> i need this information to determine whether to apply solder paste or not. the options are: 0) no solder paste for the usb connector, 1) only on front, 2) on both sides.
2011-03-24 15:43 <wpwrak> hmm, i'll add a via to make sure ground on both sides is connected. just in case ..
2011-03-24 15:44 <tuxbrain> asked
2011-03-24 15:45 <wpwrak> two vias. now nothing can go wrong :)
2011-03-24 15:50 <tuxbrain> changing the topic, how on hell spetec could achive to put the wifi stuff in such ridiculous narro space... what would requiere to us to do at atben of such dimmensions (apart of surelly indecents amounts of money)
2011-03-24 15:55 <wpwrak> easy: use microvias, put components on both sides, use a chip antenna
2011-03-24 15:55 <wpwrak> and use a four-layer pcb while you're at it
2011-03-24 15:56 <wpwrak> nothing insane. just a little outside of the reach of my DIY process -> expensive trial and error cycles. but okay for a 2nd generation product.
2011-03-24 16:00 <wpwrak> (expensive) both in terms of money and time. maybe USD 1000-2000 per revision. and 1-2 weeks turn-around time for each. but again, that's okay if you know what you're doing, because then you'll need maybe 2 trial versions and you're good.
2011-03-24 16:01 <tuxbrain> by the procces you are descriving then is even posible to make a Nanonote watch :)
2011-03-24 16:02 <wpwrak> hmm, if you like your watches rather big, like this one: http://gizmodo.com/#!5445595/thomas-cruyls-wristwatch-is-cuckoo
2011-03-24 16:06 <tuxbrain> lol , well ok I must leave
2011-03-24 16:11 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: i'll have to wait until midnight for the next fab package. already used the 110324 codepoint :)
2011-03-24 16:12 <tuxbrain> hahahaha then the codification is inneficient for you productivity :)
2011-03-24 16:12 <tuxbrain> man just smash the old one :P
2011-03-24 16:12 <wpwrak> or rather my error rate :)
2011-03-24 16:13 <wpwrak> i could start adding letters ... 110324a, b, ...
2011-03-24 16:16 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: well, the final version will depend on the response we get regarding the USB connector. so i'll have to wait for this anyway
2011-03-24 16:18 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: btw, you can already ask the pcb fab what the stencil will cost. the cost shuldn't change it we make small modifications
2011-03-24 16:21 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: README-SMT: various small clarifications http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/38bea8e
2011-03-24 16:21 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: added two vias to connect front and back ground at USB shield http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1c4c78e
2011-03-24 16:21 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: added the front solder paste to the PCB fab package (for stencil production) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/269f770
2011-03-24 16:21 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb.brd: moved FIDUCAL label away from mounting hole; bumped version number http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6ff2740
2011-03-24 16:30 <wpwrak> hmm, i should have used this USB connector: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM3983CT-ND
2011-03-24 16:31 <wpwrak> a little cheaper and also a bit "less through-hole". ah well, something for atusb v2.0
2011-03-24 18:47 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: the usb connector can be smt? smt vendor suggest that to avoid two stencils and two printings
2011-03-24 19:23 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: one of your naps_
2011-03-24 19:23 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: i haven't been able to find any USB connector that completely avoids being through-hole. there is one that is slightly SMT-friendlier, but still requires a hole
2011-03-24 19:24 <tuxbrain> ok I think they have one of those
2011-03-24 19:24 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: an more radical alternative would be to eliminate the USB connector entirely and to make one of the PCB
2011-03-24 19:24 <wpwrak> lemme show you a picture ...
2011-03-24 19:24 <tuxbrain> I  know how they look like
2011-03-24 19:25 <tuxbrain> but I don-t like it
2011-03-24 19:25 <tuxbrain> save this option when we use microvias and 4 layer pcbs
2011-03-24 19:26 <tuxbrain> I will thell the smt to go ahead with his smt USB connector and only one face to deal with
2011-03-24 19:28 <wpwrak> wait ... you say they propose a different connector ?
2011-03-24 19:28 <tuxbrain> yes
2011-03-24 19:28 <tuxbrain> an smt one
2011-03-24 19:29 <wpwrak> data sheet ?
2011-03-24 19:29 <tuxbrain> ok I will ask, will make any difference?
2011-03-24 19:30 <wpwrak> that's what i'll know when i see the data sheet ;-)
2011-03-24 19:36 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: here's the pcb-only variant: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/usbpcbconn.jpg
2011-03-24 19:37 <wpwrak> the white stuff on the bottom is to add thickness
2011-03-24 19:37 <tuxbrain> I have asked for all datasheets of their alternatives they propose in the quoting , to be validated by our "Enginering department" so I prefer to tell them to go ahead with the quoting an then we will enter in matizations if something don't convince us
2011-03-24 19:39 <wpwrak> matization ?
2011-03-24 19:40 <tuxbrain> doesn't exist this word in english?
2011-03-24 19:41 <tuxbrain> ok matizacion(ES)->Clarification(EN)
2011-03-24 19:43 <wpwrak> ah, learned a new word ;-) i was already wondering if you meant something related to "matanza" :)
2011-03-24 19:44 <tuxbrain> haahaha this is reserved if things go wrong :P
2011-03-24 19:45 <tuxbrain> and after production started, before it starts we are all friends :P
2011-03-24 19:45 <wpwrak> *grin*
2011-03-24 20:14 <kristianpaul> eliminate the USB connector !!
2011-03-24 20:14 <kristianpaul> yes,
2011-03-24 20:15 <kristianpaul> hmm, creo que matizaciones era solo para luces y colores
2011-03-24 20:15 <kristianpaul> crei**
2011-03-24 20:15 <kristianpaul> interesting :-)
2011-03-24 20:16 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (eliminate the connector) unfortunately, this isn't entirely trivial. my board is 0.8 mm, and the total thickness has to be around 2.0 mm. so you either use 1.6 mm and add some material (e.g., the white stuff in my picture), or you use a 2.0 mm board
2011-03-24 20:17 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: the problem with making the board thicker is that this changes its RF characteristics. so the feed line gets wider and the antenna needs to be redesigned
2011-03-24 20:21 <kristianpaul> hmmm
2011-03-24 20:21 <kristianpaul> yeah, i missed the thickness :/
2011-03-24 20:22 <kristianpaul> well
2011-03-24 20:23 <kristianpaul> but hey, this is atben, is so dramatic therorically tought about a thick change?..
2011-03-24 20:23 <kristianpaul> s/tought/think
2011-03-24 20:23 <wpwrak> it's atusb. atben is exactly right at 0.8 mm :)
2011-03-24 20:24 <kristianpaul> yes yes, sorry
2011-03-24 20:26 <wpwrak> well, if i change the board thickness, i need to redesign the antenna, make various samples, measure them, etc. that takes a while. this sort of thing: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/antfarm.jpg
2011-03-24 20:34 <methril_work> wpwrak, nice picture
2011-03-24 22:37 <tuxbrain> yeah! nanocoder draft compiled and running on NN :)
2011-03-24 22:37 <tuxbrain> nanokoder sorry :P
2011-03-24 22:38 <tuxbrain> and as I fear qt file dialog is too big for use on NN
2011-03-24 22:39 <tuxbrain> at least as I call it, maybe it has some conf to adjust to a 320x240
2011-03-24 22:43 <rjeffries> wpwrak cn you ship me a 40 ft container full of chairs similar to this? http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/antfarm.jpg
2011-03-24 22:46 <wpwrak> rjeffries: i''ll pass the request to my carpenter :)
2011-03-24 22:48 <wpwrak> rjeffries: he'll be happy to hear that you like this avantgarde design. like stone-washed jeans, just for furniture
2011-03-24 22:49 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: sell it pricy , is an RF chair
2011-03-24 22:49 <mth> tuxbrain: are you using Qt Embedded or Qt X11?
2011-03-24 22:50 <tuxbrain> I'm using qt4, using the openwrt tool chain than use frambuffer
2011-03-24 22:50 <Ayla> hello
2011-03-24 22:50 <rjeffries> wpwrak I knew you were an authority on ATM and communications matters, had no idea you were also an artisan with wood
2011-03-24 22:50 <tuxbrain> hi Ayla
2011-03-24 22:50 <Ayla> anyone uses gmenu2x?
2011-03-24 22:50 <tuxbrain> yes
2011-03-24 22:50 <rjeffries> Electric Chair, used once, from Argentina.
2011-03-24 22:51 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: anechoic wood
2011-03-24 22:51 <wpwrak> rjeffries: (-:C
2011-03-24 22:52 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: you enjoy using words than I don't understand , isn't it?
2011-03-24 22:52 <wpwrak> rjeffries: i actually did a few things with wood. when my carpenter was too slow, i made my lab benches and a cupboard myself
2011-03-24 22:52 <Ayla> would you like to have gmenu2x work in a more unix way, with user conf/skins in $HM
2011-03-24 22:53 <Ayla> $HOME, and data in /usr/share/gmenu2x?
2011-03-24 22:53 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: anechoic = no echo (or, in the case of RF, no reflections). you use something called an anechoic chamber for proper RF or also audio tests
2011-03-24 22:53 <Ayla> my question is more, can I get rid of the current behaviour, ie. reading only the files located on the binary path
2011-03-24 22:54 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: another piece of brain occupied by werner's knowledge
2011-03-24 22:55 <tuxbrain> Ayla: if the questions is than if I like the idea, yes I like it , but I'm just a user not developer :)
2011-03-24 22:56 <Ayla> well I don't know how it is used right now by the nanonote,
2011-03-24 22:56 <Ayla> but I believe it is an improvement
2011-03-24 22:57 <tuxbrain> Ayla: If you have the knowledge to do so go ahead :), who was the gmenu2x maintainer?
2011-03-24 22:58 <Ayla> well, I have the necessary rights to commit on the repo
2011-03-24 22:58 <Ayla> but I don't want to break things by introducing policy
2011-03-24 22:59 <mth> maybe ask xiangfu?
2011-03-24 22:59 <Ayla> maybe Qi guys prefer how it's currently set up
2011-03-24 23:00 <Ayla> if I can suppress the current behaviour, that saves me lots of time and code
2011-03-24 23:00 <mth> I think a more unix-style dir would be better, but it could break existing packaging scripts
2011-03-24 23:00 <mth> you could create a branch and if the change is accepted, merge it to master
2011-03-24 23:00 <tuxbrain> using you approach will be more easy to get rid of root as normal user but will also not hurt meanwhile it don't occurs , isn't it?
2011-03-24 23:01 <Ayla> yes
2011-03-24 23:01 <Ayla> basically, I just want to change the directories gmenu2x checks for its files
2011-03-24 23:01 <Ayla> mth, what do you mean by packaging scripts?
2011-03-24 23:02 <tuxbrain> Ayla: Openwrt makefiles
2011-03-24 23:02 <mth> the integration into openwrt
2011-03-24 23:02 <wpwrak> Ayla: if you could search the old and the new locations, that probbaly wouldn't break anything
2011-03-24 23:02 <wpwrak> Ayla: then, after a while, turn off the old
2011-03-24 23:02 <mth> not sure how openwrt does it, but buildroot copies files from the build dir to the target dir
2011-03-24 23:02 <mth> it doesn't run "make install"
2011-03-24 23:02 <Ayla> yes, that's what I've done right now
2011-03-24 23:02 <Ayla> but the code is quite ugly as there're exceptions everywhere
2011-03-24 23:05 <mth> an advantage of branching is that you can show the new situation to other people
2011-03-24 23:05 <mth> and they can test it to see what kind of impact it has
2011-03-24 23:07 <Ayla> yes, maybe it's a better idea
2011-03-24 23:07 <Ayla> than keeping the current way while trying to improve it
2011-03-24 23:11 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: fab/drl2gerber: new tool to convert an Excellon drill file to Gerber http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/813ac47
2011-03-24 23:11 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: prettygerbv: new option  -d file  to show holes from a coverted drill file http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/e52f0db
2011-03-24 23:11 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: makefiles/Makefile.kicad: also show drill holes in PNG illustrations http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/0ee8b42
2011-03-24 23:12 <roh> wpwrak: at some point you should make a flowchart of fileformats und and tools to convert them
2011-03-24 23:12 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: now with holes: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atben-110324-overview.png http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atusb-110324-overview.png
2011-03-24 23:13 <roh> flowchart for 'what is done in which format and how is the workflow'
2011-03-24 23:13 <roh> yay.
2011-03-24 23:13 <wpwrak> roh: yeah, i thought that earlier today as well. it's getting a little ... nontrivial :)
2011-03-24 23:13 <roh> one thing i havent understood yet: why is there a gnd plane on the microsd-end of atben?
2011-03-24 23:13 <tuxbrain> what are that holes for?
2011-03-24 23:13 <roh> on the bottom.. sure that doesnt make trouble?
2011-03-24 23:14 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: vias, through-hole (usb connector), positioning (usb connector)
2011-03-24 23:14 <wpwrak> roh: it can only improve things :)
2011-03-24 23:14 <wpwrak> roh: (by making a better ground contact)
2011-03-24 23:14 <roh> wpwrak: hehe.. just mentioning that because its getting difficult for ME to keep track of such things.. and i am more into such processes as the regular guy.. so getting an overview is harder than a year ago now
2011-03-24 23:15 <wpwrak> roh: signal and 8:10 shield ground are connected in the ben
2011-03-24 23:15 <roh> i see.
2011-03-24 23:16 <wpwrak> roh: yeah, when the dust settles, i'll have to make a little drawing with a lot of arrows
2011-03-24 23:16 <roh> wpwrak: is there really a gap in the antenna on atben?
2011-03-24 23:16 <wpwrak> roh: rounding error
2011-03-24 23:16 <roh> at the 90° point of the gnd and the signal feed onto the 'antenna'
2011-03-24 23:16 <tuxbrain> that ones I understad , was that little ones speraded arround the board
2011-03-24 23:16 <roh> ah. so its only in the png, yes?
2011-03-24 23:16 <wpwrak> yup
2011-03-24 23:17 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: that's vias
2011-03-24 23:17 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: see also http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/2boards-20110305.jpg
2011-03-24 23:17 <tuxbrain> ok to connect to the other side, the big ground , isn't it?
2011-03-24 23:18 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: yup. or also for signals
2011-03-24 23:20 <tuxbrain> ok that ugly bumps :)
2011-03-24 23:20 <tuxbrain> roh, any idea on atben/atusb envelop?
2011-03-24 23:21 <tuxbrain> envelop->cover->box->encapsulation
2011-03-24 23:21 <roh> not yet. its _really_ small
2011-03-24 23:22 <roh> its much smaller than i expected.
2011-03-24 23:22 <roh> even if i knew... its just the.. having it infront of you... hm.
2011-03-24 23:23 <wpwrak> welcome to the marvelous world of microelectronics :)
2011-03-24 23:24 <tuxbrain> another motto , price are high but damn it, they are _really_ small! :P
2011-03-24 23:28 <tuxbrain> roh, then maybe the best solution is a bath of plastic or silicon, with a beatifull tuxbrain logo on it :P
2011-03-24 23:30 <roh> i think for the atusb its a question of finding the right usb-stick-plastic case
2011-03-24 23:30 <roh> something made in china consisting of 2 parts being pressed together
2011-03-24 23:31 <wpwrak> roh: yeah, that would be an elegant solution. they may require some openings in the pcb, though.
2011-03-24 23:31 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: i think silicone is what we'll end up with, at least this time
2011-03-24 23:32 <roh> wpwrak: i just tried one which i had around from a fake-class-2-bluetooth-donge i took apart
2011-03-24 23:32 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: if you use transparent silicone, you can simply put a tuxbrain sticker at the bottom, where you have plenty of space and where there is no other text
2011-03-24 23:32 <wpwrak> roh: pictures ! :)
2011-03-24 23:32 <roh> and it doesnt fit.. the usb plug needs to stand out further than its possible with the notches.
2011-03-24 23:34 <wpwrak> roh: (stand out) hmm, you mean the board+case assembly can't be fully inserted into the usb receptacle ?
2011-03-24 23:34 <roh> means the pcb needs to be tighter to the socket
2011-03-24 23:34 <roh> wpwrak: exactly.
2011-03-24 23:34 <roh> i think if i dont find another case i will trim away a bit of pcb there and fit it in
2011-03-24 23:34 <wpwrak> roh: hmm, it's already at the limit
2011-03-24 23:35 <wpwrak> roh: ah, so the case has some press-fit "columns" on the PC side, after the PCB ?
2011-03-24 23:35 <roh> it can be wider further away from the socket. just not at the 'corners of the case'
2011-03-24 23:35 <roh> exactly. something like small noses and tubes
2011-03-24 23:36 <wpwrak> ah, the width. okay, that can be trimmed a little
2011-03-24 23:46 <wpwrak> and another fped bug fix ...