2011-03-20 01:26 Can anyone explain to me why thc CC-BY-SA license was chosen for hardware?Â Â It seems to be more suited to music. 2011-03-20 01:28 music is a creative creation, lets see hardware diagrams like that, a master piece :-) 2011-03-20 01:29 Also open hardware linceses are not going anywhere, they still putting non-comercial clauises and doing a very high level of dificulties at the end for be just a license 2011-03-20 01:29 (persona opinion) 2011-03-20 01:30 also you dont license hardware itself, just the sources for making that hardware, wich at the end are diagrams, software, text 2011-03-20 01:31 there are plenty of licenses for that, why see hardware like just *one* thing when it is not 2011-03-20 01:31 ? 2011-03-20 01:31 hi jlamothe :-) 2011-03-20 01:31 jlamothe: which license do you propose? 2011-03-20 01:34 a copyleft manufacturing license would be cool, imho, but then I think licenses are not that important with hardware. Maybe we should multi-license everything under a whole bunch of the open hardware licenses, for fun :-) 2011-03-20 01:34 like 10 or so :-) 2011-03-20 01:42 I don't really have an alternative.Â Â I was just curious as to why that one specifically was chosen. 2011-03-20 01:42 I'm developing hardware right now, and was looking for a good copyleft license. 2011-03-20 01:43 Right now, it's under GPLv3, but I was told CC BY-SA might be better. 2011-03-20 01:45 this is from CERN http://www.ohwr.org/ 2011-03-20 01:45 you may want check that too 2011-03-20 01:46 kristianpaul: Thanks. 2011-03-20 01:46 I'll check it out. 2011-03-20 01:47 Btw can you tell us what hardware are you developing? 2011-03-20 01:47 It's an Arduino shield, that allows it to do proper 0-10v output, instead of 5v PWM. 2011-03-20 01:48 I'm really more of a software developer, I've only been getting into hardware in the past couple years. 2011-03-20 01:49 jlamothe: nice. that puts you right smack into the middle of our core people here. 2011-03-20 01:50 GPLv3 is definitely also a good choice. 2011-03-20 01:50 It's what I've always used for my software. 2011-03-20 01:50 for example the Elphel cameras (www.elphel.com) are licensed under GPL 2011-03-20 01:50 So, it seemed a natural choice. 2011-03-20 01:50 jlamothe: so are you going to use some kind of boost converter? 2011-03-20 01:50 well. it's probably close to meaningless in hardware, although you could make the same argument for cc-by or cc-by-sa 2011-03-20 01:51 Basically, just a capacitor and resistor to smooth it out, and an op amp with negative feedback, to double the voltage. 2011-03-20 01:51 the FSF will not help making GPL more meaningful/enforceable in hardware. it's just a symbolic act really, imho. 2011-03-20 01:51 The shield also supplies power to the Arduino through the VIN pin. 2011-03-20 01:51 you can dual-license under gpl and cc-by-sa 2011-03-20 01:51 Probably what I'll end up doing. 2011-03-20 01:52 what do you try to achieve with the license? 2011-03-20 01:52 I basically just want to make sure it remains accessible. 2011-03-20 01:52 I'd hate to see someone turn it into something proprietary that I can't hack on. 2011-03-20 01:52 no need to worry about that :-) no hardware company in the world would even go close to any of this open/copyleft stuff. 2011-03-20 01:53 wolfspraul: There was a time they said that about software companies.Â Â ;) 2011-03-20 01:53 agreed. in software we have a situation that many companies ignore the gpl, if not legally, then at least blatantly violating the culture and values of the gpl. 2011-03-20 01:54 but in hardware for sure that doesn't exist now. put the gpl on it and no hw company will touch it (if that's what you think is 'accessible') 2011-03-20 01:54 It is a bit of a tricky situation though.Â Â I happen to work for an electronics company. 2011-03-20 01:54 aha :-) 2011-03-20 01:54 They know I'm doing this, and they're cool with it though. 2011-03-20 01:54 We're looking at totally different target demographics. 2011-03-20 01:56 if you care about the product (functionality), I'd say stick with gpl/cc-by-sa, maybe dual-licensing, and forget about the license stuff. 2011-03-20 01:56 focus on the product 2011-03-20 01:56 Yeah.Â Â That's my primary focus. 2011-03-20 01:56 if there were as many successful open hardware projects as there are open hardware licenses, we would be much further along today. 2011-03-20 01:57 It's mostly about the learning experience for me.Â Â It just so happens that I had a number of people asking me (to my surprise) if I can make boards for them too. 2011-03-20 01:57 which EDA tool do you use? 2011-03-20 01:57 for schematic capture and layout 2011-03-20 01:57 gEDA. 2011-03-20 01:57 nice 2011-03-20 01:58 Qi is mostly using KiCad right now 2011-03-20 01:58 I was going to go with Eagle, but I figured that if I was going to learn a tool, I'd rather learn a free (libre) one. 2011-03-20 01:58 but geda is the other big free one, of course 2011-03-20 01:58 yes, good 2011-03-20 01:58 CERN uses gEDA i think 2011-03-20 01:58 early on wpwrak chose KiCad, and we have been happy with it ever since 2011-03-20 01:58 sure :-) 2011-03-20 01:58 the amount of good libraries for eagle is much larger, in my experience. how do you solve that problem? 2011-03-20 01:59 I taught myself to make my own footprints.Â Â The supplier I use for parts is good about supplying datasheets. 2011-03-20 01:59 we've done some nice things like schematics revision history, automatically from kicad commits into the qi projects server 2011-03-20 01:59 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/xue/ 2011-03-20 01:59 yes, also good :-) werner wrote a small parametric footprint editor, fped 2011-03-20 02:00 I don't know much about geda though, not sure whether fped would make sense there or not. 2011-03-20 02:00 Probably worth looking into. 2011-03-20 02:01 wolfspraul: parametric? is it like providing it the case type and pin names, and getting the finished footprint after the processing? 2011-03-20 02:01 I know that gEDA supports footprints generated by M4 macros, but the M4 processor makes my head hurt a little. 2011-03-20 02:02 jlamothe: are you using some autoroute feature for gEDA? 2011-03-20 02:02 don't know the details 2011-03-20 02:02 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/ 2011-03-20 02:02 kristianpaul: I started out using it, but I found that when I want to use a ground plane, it totally makes a mess of things. 2011-03-20 02:03 ...so I route by hand now. 2011-03-20 02:03 http://people.openmoko.org/werner/fped/gui.html 2011-03-20 02:03 I don't think it's that high-level though (case type and pin names). 2011-03-20 02:04 jlamothe: what about 6 layers PCB, any toughts about that using gEDA? 2011-03-20 02:05 It can do as many layers as I want, but the PCB manufacturer I've been dealing with can only do 2-layer. 2011-03-20 02:05 the fped is worth looking at, as i am currently searching for a good foss cad tool 2011-03-20 02:06 I've yet to find a good all-around F/OSS AutoCAD replacement. 2011-03-20 02:06 here's an fped example for a mini-USB connector http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/modules/mini-usb.fpd 2011-03-20 02:06 It saddens me a little... :( 2011-03-20 02:06 jlamothe: cannot help you with 'all-around', but we are using QCad for the case of our Milkymist One VJ station 2011-03-20 02:07 'using' means we have produced cases, are selling functioning products, etc. 2011-03-20 02:07 so that's a starting point, I think 2011-03-20 02:07 this was done by raumfahrtagentur.org, they may have more interesting links for you 2011-03-20 02:10 Hey, look at that... QCad is even in the default Ubuntu repository.Â Â :D 2011-03-20 02:13 yes but don't expect an 'all-around' autocad replacement 2011-03-20 02:13 I think you need to approach it the other way round - what is possible with QCad, that's what you will do :-) 2011-03-20 02:13 If I can draw simple schematics, I'm happy. 2011-03-20 02:14 schematics with autocad/qcad? 2011-03-20 02:14 Yeah. 2011-03-20 02:14 I think it's similar with kicad/geda. once you use these tools, you really have to accept where they are and help grow them too, with feedback, patches, etc. 2011-03-20 02:15 if you compare with your beloved pads layout, orcad, altium designer every day, you may as well stay with those 2011-03-20 02:16 Yeah, but I try to use as little proprietary software as possible.Â Â If I can find a passible F/OSS substiture, I'll gladly deal with the discomfort of making the change-over. 2011-03-20 02:16 I don't have that option at work, but on my own PC, I do. 2011-03-20 02:16 Well, I do at work too... just not to the same extent. 2011-03-20 02:18 Anyhow, thanks for the input.Â Â It was very helpful. 2011-03-20 02:18 jlamothe: what tools do you use at work? 2011-03-20 02:18 AutoCAD and Eagle. 2011-03-20 02:18 Also some really specific stuff like Echelon NodeBuilder/LONMaker 2011-03-20 02:18 oh sure, you are very welcome. please come back here when you have more feedback or questions. 2011-03-20 02:19 all of those tools like geda/kicad, qcad, also on the IC design side, are very much the center of our work here 2011-03-20 02:20 Well, the Echelon stuff is for programing Neuron chips, which allow our hardware to communicate using a proprietary protocol, used by some of the other hardware we need to be compatible with. 2011-03-20 02:20 we've also started some work on a sourcing system, called 'boom' 2011-03-20 08:16 there is any clear tutorial on how to setup QT-creator to compile to NN? I have searched on SIE part but all is a little messy, If not I will have to create one my own :P 2011-03-20 08:29 jlamothe: i think if you feel tempted to use qcad for doing schematics, you're doing something wrong :) 2011-03-20 08:30 jlamothe: gEDA schematics capture used to be quite horrible, with many hidden fields. not sure if this changes. kicad is pretty cool but has lousy selection (blocks and such). qcad shines there, but lacks the connection to layout making. 2011-03-20 08:31 jlamothe: kicad schematics capture and schematics symbol creation is quite tolerable once you're used to it. the gui can sometimes be a little awkward but doesn't really get in the way. 2011-03-20 08:33 jlamothe: for footprints, fped is pretty strong. you can either use it via the gui or "program" your footprints with its footprint description language. here are some examples for footprints generated with fped: http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-modules.pdf 2011-03-20 08:37 jlamothe: gEDA's pcb autorouter runs circles around kicad's. but kicad is quite strong when it comes to manual routing. kicad's autorouter is sufficient to do designs that should be obvious to your dog. gEDA's autorouter is sufficient for designs that take you 1-5 minutes to solve in your head. pcbnew's manual layout lets you tackle more complex things. 2011-03-20 08:38 jlamothe: there are semi-automatic routers that go beyond this as well, but i haven't found one that's entirely convincing yet. (alas, the one best supported by kicad is free-to-use but otherwise as closed as it gets) 2011-03-20 14:34 tuxbrain: you plan to make a qtopia program' 2011-03-20 14:34 ? 2011-03-20 14:34 tuxbrain: or X based? 2011-03-20 14:40 Does someone have directfb working fine in the nanonote? 2011-03-20 14:43 http://www.sand-labs.org/owb the web fails 2011-03-20 14:43 http://www.netsurf-browser.org/ the web fails 2011-03-20 14:44 netsurf works for me 2011-03-20 14:45 The framebuffer backend 2011-03-20 14:45 But it's incomplete 2011-03-20 14:45 Not really workable 2011-03-20 14:45 Engadget renders 100% perfect though 2011-03-20 14:45 oh 2011-03-20 14:45 what is engadget? I'll look for it 2011-03-20 14:45 B_Lizzard: does it work fine without a pointing device? 2011-03-20 14:49 That's the issue 2011-03-20 14:49 The arrow keys move the screen but not the cursor itself 2011-03-20 14:50 It's an issue of improving the framebuffer frontend 2011-03-20 14:50 www.engadget.com 2011-03-20 14:50 It's a fairly complex website 2011-03-20 14:51 And netsurf is fast 2011-03-20 14:53 viric: links is working and w3m, too 2011-03-20 14:54 (http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Applications#links and #w3m) 2011-03-20 14:55 yes, for text mode I know 2011-03-20 14:55 it looks like only the text-mode browsers think about the lack of pointing device 2011-03-20 14:56 I think of getting 'dillo' working 2011-03-20 14:57 viric: what do you mean "tex mode"? links -g is not a text mode :) 2011-03-20 14:57 I know 2011-03-20 14:57 but it wants X 2011-03-20 14:57 I thought something built without X 2011-03-20 14:57 it doesn't need X 2011-03-20 14:57 if directfb worked on the nanonote, links -g would be fine too 2011-03-20 14:57 links -g works fine on nanonote 2011-03-20 14:58 with directfb? 2011-03-20 14:58 the last time I tried, it painted bad 2011-03-20 14:58 like if it was putting 24-bit pixels on a 32-bit framebuffer 2011-03-20 14:58 did you see the link i gave you? 2011-03-20 14:58 no :) 2011-03-20 14:58 I'm going 2011-03-20 14:59 Oh, this is NOT how it looks like in my nanonote 2011-03-20 14:59 the last itme I talked with xiangfu about directfb, he confirmed that he got the same results I got 2011-03-20 14:59 it uses svgalib 2011-03-20 14:59 (which are not there) 2011-03-20 14:59 at that screenshot 2011-03-20 14:59 kyak: without directfb? 2011-03-20 15:00 i don't know whether svgalib runs on top of directfbÂ Â :) 2011-03-20 15:00 the opposite, if the case 2011-03-20 15:00 viric: you should install the latest openwrt image and explore a little bit 2011-03-20 15:00 that screenshot is taken from the nanonote, sure? 2011-03-20 15:00 of course 2011-03-20 15:01 hm 2011-03-20 15:01 and also, w3m is capable of displaying inline images 2011-03-20 15:01 drawing directly in fb 2011-03-20 15:02 (the screen shot is also in wiki) 2011-03-20 15:02 these all are in latest image 2011-03-20 15:02 ah right 2011-03-20 15:02 hm 2011-03-20 15:02 I'll look at how it is built 2011-03-20 15:03 but for what I checked with xiangfu, he got links2 working as bad as in my nn 2011-03-20 15:03 when did you check? 2011-03-20 15:03 hm 3 months ago 2011-03-20 15:03 this information might be outdated :) 2011-03-20 15:03 'a little bit' 2011-03-20 15:04 3 months ago.... 2011-03-20 15:04 'this'? 2011-03-20 15:04 yea 2011-03-20 15:04 "working as bad" 2011-03-20 15:04 ah ok 2011-03-20 15:07 as kyak said. it using svgalib 2011-03-20 15:08 without directfb? 2011-03-20 15:09 hm 2011-03-20 15:09 the links web site says (as I understand) that the graphics mode requires a mouse 2011-03-20 15:10 viric: the svgalib using directfb. 2011-03-20 15:10 grmb 2011-03-20 15:10 I'll have to check. 2011-03-20 15:10 not anymore with this patch http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/links/patches/001-disable-mouse.patch :) 2011-03-20 15:10 what about the browsing experience without mouse? 2011-03-20 15:11 it's just the same as text mode links 2011-03-20 15:11 ah great 2011-03-20 15:11 it all looks fine then 2011-03-20 15:11 Working since 23-02-2011? quite recent! I'm not following qi enough :) 2011-03-20 15:12 well, working since 1 month 11 days :) 2011-03-20 15:12 I see I see 2011-03-20 15:12 so that may be the best option onw 2011-03-20 15:12 now 2011-03-20 15:12 for browsing 2011-03-20 15:13 On another state of things, whould someone post the alsa configuration for softvol? I'm mad about finding that 2011-03-20 15:13 i like w3m better.. somehow it looks nicer (imho) 2011-03-20 15:13 hm ok 2011-03-20 15:14 kyak: and cyrillic look fine in both? 2011-03-20 15:14 yeah, working fine 2011-03-20 15:15 fbterm+w3m is capable of chinese/japanes, too 2011-03-20 15:16 but then without pictures 2011-03-20 15:16 has w3m any javascript? 2011-03-20 15:16 why not? 2011-03-20 15:16 I don't know 2011-03-20 15:16 I don't use it 2011-03-20 15:17 with pictures 2011-03-20 15:17 ah 2011-03-20 15:17 Well, what does fbterm do there 2011-03-20 15:17 ' 2011-03-20 15:17 ? 2011-03-20 15:17 isn't fbterm rendering the text in that case? 2011-03-20 15:17 without fbterm, linux console won't show more than 256 symbols 2011-03-20 15:18 so you will only see those glyphs that yo uhave in your console font 2011-03-20 15:18 so w3m uses the font rendering in the console? And additionally it paints pictures? 2011-03-20 15:18 I did not think it could be possible 2011-03-20 15:18 it is :) 2011-03-20 15:19 how does w3m know the size of the text glyphs, to place the pictures? 2011-03-20 15:19 huh? 2011-03-20 15:19 I don't understand how it works :) 2011-03-20 15:19 it either uses curses, or it renders the framebuffer. Isn't that an either-or? 2011-03-20 15:20 w3m uses gdk-pixbuf to draw images. gdk-pixbuf is using directfb for that 2011-03-20 15:20 w3m draws symbols to terminal, the terminal displays them 2011-03-20 15:20 if there is no such symbol, there will be garbage 2011-03-20 15:21 'draws'? 2011-03-20 15:21 therefore, fbterm is used 2011-03-20 15:21 w3m does not draw, w3m says: put the character X 2011-03-20 15:21 dunno, replace it with "prints" :) 2011-03-20 15:21 or "puts", ok 2011-03-20 15:21 and the terminal draws whatever character w3m said 2011-03-20 15:22 As of using curses, w3m sees the terminal as a matrix of characters to be drawn 2011-03-20 15:22 But as of gdk-pixbuf, it sees it as pixels 2011-03-20 15:23 Well, I better read the code. I never thought it could be done :) 2011-03-20 15:23 w3m is not using ncurses at all 2011-03-20 15:23 ah no? 2011-03-20 15:23 nope 2011-03-20 15:24 What is the API to draw characters on the screne then? 2011-03-20 15:24 screen 2011-03-20 15:24 it uses some own implementation 2011-03-20 15:24 I thought the only way of drawing text into a terminal was sending characters to its file descriptor 2011-03-20 15:25 i think it's only one of the ways 2011-03-20 15:25 that would be a great discovery for me 2011-03-20 15:27 kyak: what font do you use in fbterm? 2011-03-20 15:27 I got good cyrillic only instalilng some Microsoft fonts :D 2011-03-20 15:31 fbterm is using unifont 2011-03-20 15:37 xiangfu: btw.. i'm running the trunk image now. Most apps work fine, some not so fine. sdcv and stardict hit the oom killer when running without swap :) 2011-03-20 15:37 guess 0.9.32 has got more fat 2011-03-20 15:38 kyak: great you running trunk image now. what is your image size? 2011-03-20 15:39 xiangfu: at the same time, qstardict runs fine and provides more options (like text to speech) 2011-03-20 15:39 xiangfu: 383778816 2011-03-20 15:39 on device, it is 339.0MÂ Â Â Â 121.1M 2011-03-20 15:39 used/avaialble 2011-03-20 15:40 kyak: what swap size do you use? 2011-03-20 15:40 viric: usually it's 32 Mb 2011-03-20 15:41 kyak: cool. QT apps works fine now with 0.9.32 great. 2011-03-20 15:41 for now i'm running without swap, the SD card is used somewhere else :) 2011-03-20 15:42 kyak: what test to speech using in qstardict? flite? 2011-03-20 15:42 is that qt on X? 2011-03-20 15:42 yep 2011-03-20 15:42 xiangfu: btw, qt apps still segfault on exit -\ 2011-03-20 15:42 viric: qt in FB 2011-03-20 15:43 xiangfu: Use flite to speak words: set "flite -t %s play" in qstardict options. 2011-03-20 15:43 great 2011-03-20 15:44 xiangfu: btw, i'm using your flite 1.4 Makefile, slightly modified. There is still older version using OSS in opewrt feeds 2011-03-20 15:44 kyak: I have tried this in 2011-02-23. not working in 2011-02-23. great it's working in trunk image 2011-03-20 15:44 xiangfu: it is working in latest image, too 2011-03-20 15:44 kyak: then maybe my setup is wrong. :) 2011-03-20 15:45 hm.. 2011-03-20 15:45 kyak: (flite) I should send the patch now to upstream. too many works delayed 2011-03-20 15:46 xiangfu: your flite version is ~35 Mb :) 2011-03-20 15:46 you install all voices 2011-03-20 15:47 xiangfu: http://dpaste.com/521325/ - this is the Makefile i'm using 2011-03-20 15:48 xiangfu: btw, how do you activate the text to speech? after setting the "flite -t %s play" in qstardict options you must search for the word you want to speak 2011-03-20 15:48 otherwise, it would speak "play" 2011-03-20 15:50 let me check 2011-03-20 15:55 kyak: ok. after setting "flite -t %s play" . it works fine now.Â Â why you add the 'play' at the end of 'flite ..' ? 2011-03-20 15:56 if WAVEFILE is unspecified or "play" the result is played on the current systems audio device. 2011-03-20 15:57 i think i wanted to avoid disambiguation :) 2011-03-20 15:58 hm, some other apps don't run without swap 2011-03-20 15:58 like supertux 2011-03-20 15:58 actually, i never ran the latest image without swap.. it's just a coincidence that i'm running trunk without swap 2011-03-20 15:59 i wonder if the memory consumption was the same in latest image 2011-03-20 16:00 that's why when i have my second Ben, i would be able to compare :) 2011-03-20 17:06 http://xkcd.com/radiation/ he 2011-03-20 17:36 [commit] kyak: snownews: enable wide ncurses support http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/0a344e8 2011-03-20 17:55 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: Revert "flite: include in upstream" http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/345e073 2011-03-20 17:55 kyak: I just revert our make file of flite. you can find more info in git log 2011-03-20 17:57 kyak: I have try to update the upstream 1.3 to 1.4. there is a patch about share libs. I can not make merge it to 1.4. so I will just keep the flite 1.4 in openwrt-package.git 2011-03-20 17:57 xiangfu: cool! i'm using a slightly modified Makefile: http://dpaste.com/521325/ 2011-03-20 17:57 because $(INSTALL_BIN) $(PKG_BUILD_DIR)/bin/* $(1)/usr/bin/ is very huge 2011-03-20 17:58 alsao, it depends on alsa-lib 2011-03-20 17:58 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: flite: add depends alsa-lib by kyak http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/0101325 2011-03-20 17:58 kyak: thanks. applied :) 2011-03-20 17:59 thanks :) 2011-03-20 19:29 The receiver requires at a minimum a 100 MHz 486 IBM PC with 640k RAM. 2011-03-20 19:29 http://home.earthlink.net/~cwkelley/ 2011-03-20 19:34 argg this software asusmes a correlator chip,too bad 2011-03-20 19:36 osgps out of my list.. well for now 2011-03-20 19:36 looking for a software correlator 2011-03-20 19:57 viric, not qtopia, using qt 4.7 they work also on framebuffer no need of X, (but it can also work with X aka Jlime) , I'm seting up the env to crosscompile directly form Qt-creator, once my first example compiles I will do a tutorial on how to do so, an then I will work in my ardunote app 2011-03-20 19:58 :o 2011-03-20 19:58 kudos tuxbrain 2011-03-20 20:00 hmm,interesting gp2021 born as a flos replacement for the dead gp2021 correlator.. 2011-03-20 20:01 kristianpaul: what are you surprised ? for the willing to do a tutorial ? for setting up Qt-Creator? or that I was able to write a coherence sentence that looks like I know what I'm doing? 2011-03-20 20:01 tuxbrain: ;-) 2011-03-20 20:02 tuxbrain: no, because you're moving fast on this ardunote thing 2011-03-20 20:06 need speedup gps-sdr thing 2011-03-20 20:10 dreams on a next ya with two 8:10, wpan and gps 2011-03-20 20:11 and touch screen and a 640x480 res, with suspend working 2011-03-20 20:12 and why not a MM core twice fast and half power consuming 2011-03-20 20:13 hey don't look me like this, I said I dream onÂ Â :) 2011-03-20 20:14 then should re cross-cross compile avr-toolchain for lattice-mico32 :P 2011-03-20 20:14 you missed the gsm stuff ;-) 2011-03-20 20:15 no I let this for the qi-phone :) 2011-03-20 20:15 tuxbrain: ha, you can even have a avr clone inside the chip :-) 2011-03-20 20:15 hehe 2011-03-20 20:15 :-) 2011-03-20 20:15 kristianpaul: (MM core) I'm refering to ASIC not FPGA :P 2011-03-20 20:16 oh wow :-) 2011-03-20 20:16 once I found a million or two, we can start the project 2011-03-20 20:18 for now lets try to setup Qt creator like they do here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QtCreator_C%2B%2B/Qt 2011-03-20 20:18 but for our beloved ben 2011-03-20 20:27 tuxbrain: may be s/wpan/wifi/? :) 2011-03-20 20:28 and 800x480 :) 2011-03-20 20:28 and jornada-like keyboard 2011-03-20 20:28 and Sharp Zaurus SL-C860-like case :) 2011-03-20 20:29 no I don't want to taint NN with propietary stuff, any step forward should be towards freedom :) 2011-03-20 20:29 and yes, 3g modem :) 2011-03-20 20:30 (jornada keyboard) I'm have heart parted in two, in one side I love the NN form factor it size is really pocket perfect, jornada doesn't fit in a pocket ... but yeah I has an incredible keyboard 2011-03-20 20:31 3g same as wifi, no freedom no way 2011-03-20 20:32 If freedom is not the concern then any HTC device with kb can fit needs. 2011-03-20 20:35 maybe a jornada slim as the screen part of NN , if closed can definitively make me decide :P , for now I will defend NN form factor 2011-03-20 20:38 fuckÂ Â https://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/openmokoder link doesnt work, any one in contact with the author Silmarilion? 2011-03-20 20:39 I don't think they made a movie of that yet ;) 2011-03-20 20:40 yes I had writed right 2011-03-20 20:42 ah! it was Michael Tansella 2011-03-20 20:50 well watever is a second method but it's less espectacular than see a just compiled app popup in ben screen.... with just a click o a button.... 2011-03-20 20:51 mmm maybe playing with the post building options I can figure out.. 2011-03-20 20:59 tuxbrain: (kbd) if you can get your hands on an oqo 01/01+, you may want to give that one a try. the keyboard is even smaller than the ben's, and it feels very nice. of course, you're typing with two fingers at a time, but it's still pretty friendly. 2011-03-20 21:03 wpwrak: did you ever had a jornada in your hands? 2011-03-20 21:03 680/720 2011-03-20 21:05 tuxbrain: hmm, probably held rafa's or miriam's once or twice. i know the hp100lx very well, and i loved that keyboard very much. 2011-03-20 21:06 wpwrak: yeah that ogo thing seems to find out a pretty kb layout :) 2011-03-20 21:07 tuxbrain: best layout i've ever seen 2011-03-20 21:07 wolfgang, take note for NN evolutions :) 2011-03-20 21:08 tuxbrain: in particular, they've had the courage not to have dedicated function keys. about the only other keybaord where i've seen this is the case is the HHKB 2011-03-20 21:21 wpwrak: well htc ones also doen't have fn keys :P 2011-03-20 21:48 he, after 1 hr of reading the osgps mailist archive i found this interesting project http://sourceforge.net/projects/merakogps 2011-03-20 21:51 tuxbrain: alright, the ben is almost phone-sized :) 2011-03-20 21:53 walkie talkie? 2011-03-20 21:57 kristianpaul: that would be a very very fancy walkie-talkie ;-) 2011-03-20 22:02 Why not? :D 2011-03-20 22:04 (walkytalky) what? NanoNote? 2011-03-20 22:05 hides 2011-03-20 22:05 kristianpaul: nowhere to hide this is logged :P 2011-03-20 22:06 probably a bit fragile for that. also, not the most convenient shape. 2011-03-20 22:06 bit an interesting idea nevertheless :) 2011-03-20 22:07 also will be very complicated to have something transmiting with enough power to achieve useful distance.... or I'm wrong? 2011-03-20 22:08 well if we find a 8:10 solution we have a sensitive mic and a loud speaker... 2011-03-20 22:08 and RMF12B modules.. 2011-03-20 22:08 (useful distance) yeap :/ 2011-03-20 22:09 R;F12B which distance can achieve powered by 8:10 gpios? 2011-03-20 22:09 with a little parabolic reflector, you can use narrow beam transmission :) 2011-03-20 22:09 wpwrak: but that's directional 2011-03-20 22:11 thinks if a 9V battery and a bigger antenna can become a NN a long range radio tranmisor reciever= 2011-03-20 22:11 maybe is an interesting hack for atben... 2011-03-20 22:12 tuxbrain: do you know much radio? 2011-03-20 22:12 viric: as much as anything... barelly nothing at all 2011-03-20 22:12 :D 2011-03-20 22:13 but I'm totally fool and brave :) 2011-03-20 22:13 and very obstinated 2011-03-20 22:13 tuxbrain: the chip used for atben/atusb does support an external rf amplifier. so you could probably increase the range by a factor of (theoretically) 7 2011-03-20 22:14 that puts you in advantadge over many who know radio :) 2011-03-20 22:14 7 ! :o 2011-03-20 22:14 wpwrak: is it working on microwave range? 2011-03-20 22:14 tuxbrain: however, if you blast signals at 100 mW, you have all sort of regulatory constraints to worry about. 2 mW stay nicely below the radar ;-) 2011-03-20 22:14 viric: with an RF amp, you'd still use the exactly same frequencies. just with a stronger signal 2011-03-20 22:15 hope get a radio-ham license next month 2011-03-20 22:15 wpwrak: You have to read I have talked about a hack, so not a product 2011-03-20 22:15 wpwrak: that's why I ask. I don't want more stronger microwave around. 2011-03-20 22:15 :) 2011-03-20 22:15 tuxbrain: oh, sure. make it 10 W then ;-)) 2011-03-20 22:15 and I imagine it's microwave, from the size of the antenna. 2011-03-20 22:15 viric: it's in the 2.4 GHz ISM band 2011-03-20 22:15 clear 2011-03-20 22:16 well if posible I would love to do so :) I can then read sensors from km (or maybe fry them) 2011-03-20 22:19 tuxbrain: wireless heating ;-) 2011-03-20 22:19 agrees with tuxbrain 2011-03-20 22:19 kristianpaul: I was thinking to use the nanonote for some CW training :) 2011-03-20 22:19 imagines him self with a bagpack with batts and whatever stuff needed and a UBB cable :P 2011-03-20 22:19 CW? 2011-03-20 22:19 for morse training, for people interested in continuous wave communications 2011-03-20 22:19 wpwrak: but now seriously, is complicated to achive that rf amp? 2011-03-20 22:20 from scratch? 2011-03-20 22:20 it requires some accurate designs, if it's in the microwave range 2011-03-20 22:21 but I imagine there are prebuilt things around; 2.4GHz is a popular band nowadays 2011-03-20 22:21 viric: sounds like not as simple as solder a resitor an plug a 9V bat thing :P 2011-03-20 22:21 tuxbrain: that would be more for a microphone, if you add a capcitor :) 2011-03-20 22:23