2011-03-16 02:57 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: http://kristianpaul.org/~paul/tmp/atben__iso-8859-1_Q_0110315_CotCristianPe_F1arandaPn.pdf__.pdf (100 Units)
2011-03-16 02:59 <wpwrak> mmh, about 180 USD fixed + 1.2 USD per board then, correct ?
2011-03-16 03:10 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: seems
2011-03-16 03:10 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: wow price go down..
2011-03-16 03:10 <kristianpaul> a LOT
2011-03-16 03:11 <wpwrak> :)
2011-03-16 03:11 <wolfspraul> what did you do to bring the price down?
2011-03-16 03:12 <kristianpaul> ask for 100 units not 10
2011-03-16 03:12 <kristianpaul> well i just _ask_ i said, i'm curios no compromise
2011-03-16 03:13 <wpwrak> s/compromise/promise/   :)
2011-03-16 03:13 <kristianpaul> :p
2011-03-16 03:14 <wpwrak> it's just the underlying calculation. real price = large_fixed_cost + units * small_unit_cost
2011-03-16 03:15 <kristianpaul> jeje
2011-03-16 03:15 <wpwrak> so the calculation unit_price = real_price / units  doesn't tell you what larger volumes will cost
2011-03-16 03:20 <wolfspraul> ah ok, got it
2011-03-16 03:34 <kristianpaul> argg this is male conector i dont have a adapter right now...
2011-03-16 10:47 <kyak> suddenly breaks into the silence
2011-03-16 11:40 <qi-bot> [commit] kyak: qstardict: fix build with 0.9.32 http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/90818e8
2011-03-16 11:53 <kyak> xiangfu_: ping
2011-03-16 13:59 <xiangfu_> kyak: hi
2011-03-16 14:00 <xiangfu_> (2 hours later)
2011-03-16 14:01 <kyak> xiangfu_: he, not a problem :)
2011-03-16 14:02 <kyak> xiangfu_: what do you think about ncursesw package in openwrt-packages git? it is necessary for backfire, but won't be necessary for trunk
2011-03-16 14:02 <kyak> so we will have to remove it
2011-03-16 14:12 <xiangfu_> hmm..
2011-03-16 14:14 <xiangfu_> kyak: we can disable it in config.full_system for now. I was thinking: before we finish the openwrt-xburst.git rebase on 'trunk'. we better leave the openwrt-package.git full suppor the backfire.
2011-03-16 14:17 <kyak> xiangfu_: there is not need to disable it, cause it causes no problems. It will just override the ncursesw from trunk. But i was wondering, what should we do after we finish the rebase?
2011-03-16 14:19 <xiangfu_> oh. yes. after rebase we will just remove it
2011-03-16 14:21 <kyak> so we will basically not support backfire anymore, and people would just checkout the last working git revision, as seen in VERSION, right?>
2011-03-16 14:21 <kyak> (if they want to build backfire )
2011-03-16 14:21 <xiangfu_> also like 'triggerhappy' stuff. we will try to remove all duplicate packages.
2011-03-16 14:22 <xiangfu_> kyak: yes.
2011-03-16 14:22 <kyak> i'm also asking it because for exmaple gcc-mips 4.3.3 would fail to build with trunk. But i made gcc-mips 4.5.2 build with trunk
2011-03-16 14:22 <kyak> and i really don't want to make gcc-mips 4.5.2 work with backfire, too :)
2011-03-16 14:22 <kyak> that's just double work
2011-03-16 14:23 <kyak> probably not necessary
2011-03-16 14:23 <kyak> therefore, after updated of gcc-mips 4.3.3.->4.5.2 in oprnwrt-packages it would not build anymore with backfire
2011-03-16 14:24 <xiangfu_> (probably not necessary) agree with you
2011-03-16 14:25 <xiangfu_> yes. if someone really want backfire. as you said using the VERSION files.
2011-03-16 14:25 <kyak> there are other changes required in openwrt-packges. some patches dropped, some added
2011-03-16 14:25 <kyak> it's really hard to look back to backfire all the time
2011-03-16 14:26 <kyak> ok, good :)
2011-03-16 14:28 <xiangfu_> sure. that is why 'trunk' packages sometimes not working in 'backfire' :-)
2011-03-16 14:28 <xiangfu_> kyak: maybe we start a new branch in openwrt-package for trunk
2011-03-16 14:28 <wpwrak> grmbl. the clearance thingy is highly mysterious. it picks the right value but then draws the wrong size. it gets even better - if i change the value manually in the .pro file, it shows the change in the dialog, yet it still picks the previous one when plotting. i wonder where it gets that from.
2011-03-16 14:29 <kyak> xiangfu_: there are onyl few packages in openwrt-packages that have problems when building in trunk. So perhaps another branch is not necessary?
2011-03-16 14:32 <wolfspraul> great, Ingenic removed all Programmer's Manuals from the FTP server again
2011-03-16 14:32 <wolfspraul> "it was a mistake"
2011-03-16 14:32 <xiangfu_> no another branch will be great. the less the better :). I am not look into the openwrt-package <--> trunk detail.
2011-03-16 14:33 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: :-(
2011-03-16 14:33 <wolfspraul> what a joke. but - makes Milkymist all the more fun :-)
2011-03-16 14:33 <wolfspraul> next meeting with the CEO I will mostly demo him Milkymist One
2011-03-16 14:33 <wolfspraul> I'm learning how to be a good Chinese.
2011-03-16 14:34 <xiangfu_> kyak: so agree with you. no another branch :)
2011-03-16 14:35 <xiangfu_> kyak: another little thing. what do you thing using all 'commandline apps' using same icon: utilities-terminal.png?
2011-03-16 14:35 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: BOOKSHELF.ingenic: removed for Ingenic prefer to leave developers in the dark http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/88e0f82
2011-03-16 14:35 <kyak> xiangfu_: when you start examining the openwrt-package <--> trunk, let me know, i'll give you some patches :)
2011-03-16 14:35 <xiangfu_> kyak: compare to add "[]" to name. or add "C" to icons. maybe change them all to 'utilities-terminal.png' is not a bad idea
2011-03-16 14:36 <xiangfu_> kyak: very thanks.
2011-03-16 14:36 <kyak> xiangfu_: we had this idea, but you told that emacs and vim won't have their nice icons in this case :)
2011-03-16 14:37 <kyak> i like the icon of abook myself :)
2011-03-16 14:38 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: that was quick :-)
2011-03-16 14:38 <larsc> wolfspraul: and you told them!
2011-03-16 14:39 <wolfspraul> you think my email made them realize they were up there?
2011-03-16 14:39 <wolfspraul> it's possible, if so that would be bad and I will change my communication style with them.
2011-03-16 14:40 <wolfspraul> but then files already started disappearing before I emailed them, although I am not exactly sure what was removed when.
2011-03-16 14:40 <larsc> they would have realized it sooner or later
2011-03-16 14:40 <wolfspraul> I'm looking forward to my Milkymist demo...
2011-03-16 14:41 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: will you mention that one of the main motivations for doing this is insufficiently open documentation from chip vendors ? :)
2011-03-16 14:43 <wolfspraul> they are not that rational, really
2011-03-16 14:43 <xiangfu_> kyak: I think I change my mind. 1. 'utilities-terminal.png' indicate that is a command line app  2. 'utilities-terminal.png' almost half of those program is usually start in 'terminal' (in fact I never first open vim then open file inside vim)
2011-03-16 14:43 <wolfspraul> I will try to get the _pms up again, well same as the last 1.5 years
2011-03-16 14:45 <kyak> xiangfu_: i think it's OK using utilities-terminal.png for all terminal apps. Maybe we can make exception for some programs, i don't know. But overwall this would be eye catching and clear for users that this is the terminal app they are going to launch
2011-03-16 14:45 <wolfspraul> they are most worried about documentation for the video accelerator, btw
2011-03-16 14:45 <xiangfu_> 3. it's don't let user down. like beautiful ICON but command line interface.
2011-03-16 14:45 <xiangfu_> kyak: yes. sure.
2011-03-16 14:45 <wpwrak> the more video, the more patents. kinda makes sense.
2011-03-16 14:46 <xiangfu_> sure. we can keeps some of them like 'abook' 'emacs' :)
2011-03-16 14:46 <wpwrak> ah, the _ds are still there. okay, then i can bring back some of the bookshelf
2011-03-16 14:46 <xiangfu_> kyak: definitely using  utilities-terminal.png in 'bc'
2011-03-16 14:47 <kyak> xiangfu_: "tclsh" is a nice icon, too ;)
2011-03-16 14:47 <kyak> sure
2011-03-16 14:48 <wolfspraul> the _ds were always public
2011-03-16 14:49 <xiangfu_> kyak: I will ask Yi to look into which one using 'utilities-terminal.png' is better. which one keep the beautiful icon.
2011-03-16 14:49 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: ah, didn't know that
2011-03-16 14:51 <kyak> xiangfu_: all right!
2011-03-16 14:52 <xiangfu_> kyak: ok. we done with terminal icons. (probably we will only change two or three to 'terminal.png' after all :D)
2011-03-16 18:19 <tuxbrain> !see wpwrak
2011-03-16 18:21 <tuxbrain> wow channel without wpwrak for more than two hours.... the end is near... gonna pray some random goods just in case
2011-03-16 18:22 <tuxbrain> btw wejp, thanks a lot for the non-black-if-not-on-frontend feature, It's really usefull to listen music while doing other things :)
2011-03-16 18:35 <wejp> :)
2011-03-16 19:19 <tuxbrain> wejp, do you have any other features in mind for next releases?
2011-03-16 19:21 <wejp> yes, there are a few things. in the next version it will be possible to reduce Gmu`s verbosity on stdout (you can reduce its output in several steps from very verbose to quiet). also i`ve planned to add support for http streaming audio
2011-03-16 19:22 <wejp> there are several other small thing on my todo list, those are just two that came to my mind right now ;)
2011-03-16 19:23 <wejp> also i might add a text.only frontend, but i don
2011-03-16 19:23 <wejp> t know if it will be ready with the next release
2011-03-16 19:26 <tuxbrain> wow :), any improvemente on shorting/filtering the playlist?
2011-03-16 20:07 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: hi, I have the quote for the PCBs and by the end of the week the smt ones
2011-03-16 20:09 <tuxbrain> both 215¬ set up each model , x100 2.4046¬ each unit || 500x 0.6795¬ each unit
2011-03-16 20:11 <tuxbrain> so 500x 1,1095¬ each
2011-03-16 20:14 <tuxbrain> ENING
2011-03-16 20:16 <tuxbrain> mm sorry atusb is slightly diferent on price
2011-03-16 20:17 <tuxbrain> same setup price 215¬ but  x100 2.3667¬ each unit || 500x 0.6905¬ each unit
2011-03-16 20:19 <tuxbrain> so this one 500x  1,1205 each
2011-03-16 22:47 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: have you recived my last input about atben/atusb pcbs? I have experienced problems with inet conection
2011-03-16 22:48 <tuxbrain> well seems is not my inet, it has been registered by the log
2011-03-16 22:52 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: yes, thanks ! looks quite reasonable
2011-03-16 22:53 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: for 100 units each, the total cost would be something like EUR 907, so going to +400% pieces is only +22% more expensive
2011-03-16 22:54 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: how many units would you want to make ?
2011-03-16 22:55 <tuxbrain> let's see how much smt will cost and will tell, but its clear I will go for the 500 pbc's
2011-03-16 22:56 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: there's also the question whether one would want to make design changes after a first run, e.g., to improve RF characteristics or for any support possibly needed by a case
2011-03-16 22:56 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: okay, great.
2011-03-16 22:57 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: (modifications) well this is part of the game, isn't it?
2011-03-16 22:58 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: yeah :) also, since you'll "leak" a few boards here and there, e.g., to kristianpaul, it's good to have a bit of a reserve
2011-03-16 23:00 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: did they say anything about the protective cover ?
2011-03-16 23:00 <tuxbrain> nop I will ask
2011-03-16 23:00 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: and did you ask them about the stencil ? that would normally also come from the pcb fab
2011-03-16 23:02 <tuxbrain> yes I have asked them but no answer, but I'm not too much worried due pcb and smt vendors are working quite close, the pcb vendor is the usual board provieder of the smt vendor
2011-03-16 23:02 <tuxbrain> smt vendor was "surprised" I where talking with them directly :)
2011-03-16 23:02 <wpwrak> good. it's always best if they're matched. saves you from nasty surprises :)
2011-03-16 23:03 <wpwrak> hehe ;-)
2011-03-16 23:06 <wpwrak> it'll take a bit longer until i have the final versions of the fab files. i found a bug in kicad that generates an incorrect solder mask and i haven't figured out yet why this happens
2011-03-16 23:08 <wpwrak> i'll also have to shut my workstation for a while for maintenance. with the loss of mail.openmoko.org, i need to set up and test my own mail system
2011-03-16 23:09 <wpwrak> and that only makes sense on a stable infrastructure. since i upgraded to ubuntu N by accident, i don't have that.
2011-03-16 23:10 <wpwrak> i was hoping i could just sit it out, but now with the loss of mail added to the mess, that's no longer an option
2011-03-16 23:10 <wpwrak> so i'll try to revert to a stable version and try to recover all data added since that checkpoint
2011-03-16 23:11 <wpwrak> if i can't revert, i'll have to reinstall my workstation from scratch
2011-03-16 23:12 <wpwrak> so it may take 1-2 days before i have things up again. let's hope nothing else goes wrong.
2011-03-16 23:12 <tuxbrain> do you want a tuxbrain.org or tuxbrain.com email address?
2011-03-16 23:13 <tuxbrain> I pay all my bills :P
2011-03-16 23:14 <wpwrak> heh, thanks :) naw, i'll modernize almesberger.net
2011-03-16 23:15 <wpwrak> a long time ago, i had almesberger.net set up with a vpn for in- and outbound mails, but that meant that everything was handled by my workstation. that was okay when i wasn't away from home for too long, but with the long trips to openmoko, it became increasingly problematic, because any power failure at home usually meant that my systems went down and stayed down
2011-03-16 23:16 <wpwrak> that's why i switched to openmoko.org. now, i'll have to set up a more distributed approach, with a proper spam filter
2011-03-16 23:17 <wpwrak> also, almesberger,net has suffered a disk failure just a few weeks ago and had to be set up from scratch, so things aren't entirely stable over there yet either
2011-03-16 23:19 <wpwrak> the good thing that came with the disk failure was a bigger disk. so at least i now have some more room to experiment with things :)
2011-03-16 23:20 <tuxbrain> In spain we have a said which "sui generis" translation should be : "In house of blacksmith, wood spoon" :P seems you case
2011-03-16 23:20 <wpwrak> now .. first step ... push all data i don't mean to keep online to dvds ... then a full image backup to an external disk ...
2011-03-16 23:21 <wpwrak> ;-)))
2011-03-16 23:24 <tuxbrain> wpwrak: well whatever "outsourcing" you may need you can count on tuxbrain's servers
2011-03-16 23:25 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: the last few months have indeed been rough on my infrastructure. lost my main work disk, then the pc controlling my mill, then the disk in almesberger.net died (a server hosted in the US), then the upgrade from hell, now mail.openmoko.org, ...
2011-03-16 23:26 <tuxbrain> mmm it smell to sabotage!
2011-03-16 23:27 <wpwrak> ah, two screens as well. at least these were easy to replace :)
2011-03-16 23:52 <wpwrak> tuxbrain: (smt) did they indicate whether the data you sent them is enough for a quote ?