2011-03-07 00:45 he, lilo save my evening :-) 2011-03-07 00:47 high-fives kristianpaul 2011-03-07 00:52 wpwrak: now i see why still using it :-) 2011-03-07 01:04 kristianpaul: how did grub fail you ? 2011-03-07 01:07 wpwrak: easy problem about root=something_bad_set here, but was generated automatically so lilo seems not follow that path 2011-03-07 01:08 was installing voyage linux on his soekris 5501 2011-03-07 01:08 oh dear, double-exotic ;-) 2011-03-07 01:08 hahah 2011-03-07 01:10 but yes, sometimes lilo's simplicity can save your day. recently, i'm hearing an increasing number of complaints about grub. 2011-03-07 01:12 grub is u-boot for non-embedded systems ;) 2011-03-07 01:13 mth: yeah, a little boot loader that tries so hard to be a big operating system ;-) 2011-03-07 01:14 mth: with u-boot, the fun starts when you add usb, because this gives you *true*concurrency*. all the races, but none of the locking ... 2011-03-07 01:16 I didn't know u-boot had USB support, but I'm not surprised :) 2011-03-07 01:16 mth: i don't know if usb ever made it into u-boot mainline. in openmoko we had it, though 2011-03-07 01:17 mth: and if you think of it, functionality-wise, it makes a lot of sense 2011-03-07 01:17 the Wii homebrew channel accepts USB uploads as well, very useful for testing new programs 2011-03-07 01:17 mth: You could'nt be so right, actually there is a port of grub as a replacement of pmon bootloader for lemote/yeeloong laptop 2011-03-07 01:18 mth: the only problem is that it drives a borderline design all the way into deepest cuckoo land 2011-03-07 01:18 kexecboot makes more sense then 2011-03-07 01:19 looks at Jay7 2011-03-07 01:19 totally. and larscÂ Â already has the weapon of u-boot destruction ready for when Jay7 is finishes :) 2011-03-07 01:20 s/is // 2011-03-07 01:20 i hope so 2011-03-07 01:20 *grin* on cue 2011-03-07 01:21 It works on the JZ4760 2011-03-07 01:22 but I think I'm going to start from scratch and write it that way, that it can be used both for the minimal bootloader and as the usbboot firmware 2011-03-07 01:22 so there is less code duplication in our tools 2011-03-07 01:23 (4760) does this imply that the 4760 wouldn't quite so much of a horrible thing to support anymore ? 2011-03-07 01:23 (usbboot) hmm, never looked into this one so far 2011-03-07 01:24 wpwrak: i added basic support for it yesterday to our kernel repoi 2011-03-07 01:24 wheee ! 2011-03-07 01:25 so far non of the more advanced peripherals is supported 2011-03-07 01:25 if a ya would happen with the 4760 instead of the 4740, i think that would be hugely better 2011-03-07 01:25 What device is using the 4760? or is a EVB? 2011-03-07 01:25 rome wasn't built in a day :) 2011-03-07 01:25 but there is a guy working on a jz4750 port, which is similar to the jz4760 so i'm not the only one working on getting better support 2011-03-07 01:26 kristianpaul: the evb 2011-03-07 01:26 (4740 vs. 4760) my main concern at the moment is memory. without DDR, you're kinda screwed today ... 2011-03-07 01:27 (ddr) e.g., according to some very superficial studies of mine, for the price of the ben's memory, you could get about twice the amount of SDR today, or four times DDR 2011-03-07 01:29 and that may not even be the end of the story. with "fat" smartphones driving up the demand, quite large memories may become cheaper than smaller ones 2011-03-07 01:29 (well, after the supply catches up :) 2011-03-07 01:30 i also like the huge number of MMC/SD/SDIO in the 4760 2011-03-07 01:32 Video also may allow higher resolution i guess? 2011-03-07 01:32 is that the dual cored xburst? or just more speed? 2011-03-07 01:32 both 2011-03-07 01:33 how fast? 2011-03-07 01:33 600 Mhz 2011-03-07 01:33 oh 2011-03-07 01:33 thats a laptop :-) 2011-03-07 01:33 ddr is faster than sdr, so you get a lot more memory bandwidth for video 2011-03-07 01:33 it actually is a tripple core 2011-03-07 01:33 what?? :O 2011-03-07 01:33 cpu, vpu, gpu 2011-03-07 01:33 i see 2011-03-07 01:34 the gpu is 2d-only though 2011-03-07 01:34 larsc: how useful is the vpu ? 2011-03-07 01:34 and i've not seen any docs for either the vpu or gpu 2011-03-07 01:34 wpwrak: without docs not so much 2011-03-07 01:34 okay, that answers it ;-) 2011-03-07 01:34 ha! :/ 2011-03-07 01:34 yeah. with what little i saw, it looked kinda semi-useless 2011-03-07 01:35 the PM states though: 2011-03-07 01:35 RealVideo decoding up to 720P 30fps 2011-03-07 01:35 MPEG-2 decoding up to 720P 30fps 2011-03-07 01:35 MPEG-4 decoding up to 720P 30fps 2011-03-07 01:35 VC-1 decoding up to 720P 30fps 2011-03-07 01:35 H.264 decoding up to 720P 30fps 2011-03-07 01:35 MPEG-4 encoding up to VGA 20fps 2011-03-07 01:35 oh, for video it's probably cool. dvdk ought to be happy :) 2011-03-07 01:35 i was thinking more of a "real" 2nd core 2011-03-07 01:36 VÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â PU 2011-03-07 01:36 larsc: usb on-the-go? 2011-03-07 01:36 includes an XBurstÂ® CPU with 48kB TCSM and without CACHE, MMU, CP0, DBG and FPU. 2011-03-07 01:36 kristianpaul: yes 2011-03-07 01:36 no MMU? 2011-03-07 01:36 the VPU 2011-03-07 01:36 ah, thats second core 2011-03-07 01:36 yeap 2011-03-07 01:37 kristianpaul: ftp://ftp.ingenic.cn/2soc/4760/JZ4760_pm.pdf 2011-03-07 01:37 alright, no smp 2011-03-07 01:39 this scares me: ftp://ftp.ingenic.cn/2soc/4760/JZ4760B_an01_vs4760.pdf 2011-03-07 01:40 apt-get install mysql-server php5-cgi php5-mysql 2011-03-07 01:40 oops 2011-03-07 01:44 LCDC 2011-03-07 01:46 larsc: because figure 1 says "Jz4760E" ? ;-) 2011-03-07 01:46 haha, nice catch 2011-03-07 01:47 2005 .. kinda ancient 2011-03-07 01:48 i wonder how much of that copyright refers to products long forgotten by history 2011-03-07 01:49 section 5 is nice :) 2011-03-07 01:50 is stoned wich so much features 2011-03-07 01:50 "Change TCSM1 from 48KB to 32KB"... that's the RAM for the VPU, right? 48KB was already small... 2011-03-07 01:51 larsc: do you deal with ingenic directly or does this go via wolfgang ? 2011-03-07 01:51 all these changes pale in comparison to what samsung did when going from the s3c2440a to the s3c2440b 2011-03-07 01:52 i mean, no much could *possibly* change on such a minor step, right ? 2011-03-07 01:52 well, all the pull-ups became pull-downs, kinda overnight ... 2011-03-07 01:54 wpwrak: because there is a whole bunch of minor changes in register layout and such in a minor chip revision. 2011-03-07 01:55 wpwrak: Takes the fun out of coding because you'll endup with spaghetti code 2011-03-07 01:55 wpwrak: i got the evb though an third party 2011-03-07 01:56 larsc: are you sure the non-B 4760 will even exist in the wild ? 2011-03-07 01:56 i have one ;) 2011-03-07 01:56 an evb ;) 2011-03-07 01:57 i'm pretty sure it exits in the wild 2011-03-07 01:59 perhaps a question for wolfgang's next visit to ingenic 2011-03-07 01:59 hm or maybe not 2011-03-07 01:59 http://en.ingenic.cn/product.aspx?CID=11 2011-03-07 01:59 larsc: tonight we found the cause for the SD errors after resume from suspend: it turns out the cpufreq driver triggers it 2011-03-07 01:59 ah 2011-03-07 01:59 this also explains why the NanoNote does not have this problem 2011-03-07 01:59 yep 2011-03-07 01:59 larsc: btw, do you deal with ingenic directly or does this go via wolfgang ? (or maybe even someone else ?) 2011-03-07 02:00 wpwrak: i got the evb through an third party 2011-03-07 02:00 interesting .. the 4740 is not recommended for new designs 2011-03-07 02:00 it's 5 years old 2011-03-07 02:01 ah yes, and they don't even mention the 4720 :) 2011-03-07 02:02 good. that settles this question. 4760b looks very likeable, even if it should have 2 out of 3 cores unusable 2011-03-07 02:02 wpwrak: I told wolfgang that Ingenic has a news item on their page mentioning that the linux kernel now has jz4740 2011-03-07 02:02 wpwrak: And he answered that it might be time for a visit again 2011-03-07 02:02 good :) 2011-03-07 02:03 larsc: (3rd party) so they would be sort of the first ones to have a linux-based device with the 4760(b) ? 2011-03-07 02:05 i've never seen the real device, but i guess yes 2011-03-07 02:06 hmm, seems that wolfgang really ought to visit ingenic ... 2011-03-07 02:06 btw. i got that board back in october 2011-03-07 02:06 so it's very likley that the product is already on the market 2011-03-07 02:06 so it should be a B by now :) 2011-03-07 02:07 hmm. you added basic support just recently ? so the product doesn't use linux ? 2011-03-07 02:09 it does 2011-03-07 02:09 but is based on ingenics sources 2011-03-07 02:09 ah, dead-end then ;-) 2011-03-07 02:11 i'm asking because i'm wondering if there may be an opportunity to have ingenic finance the making of the ya. sort of as showcasing the 4760b. the more open the design, the more reproducibility. 2011-03-07 02:12 kinda like ti is behind the various "1st" omap boards 2011-03-07 02:12 not sure if ingenic think this way, though 2011-03-07 02:13 hm 2011-03-07 02:14 they do have their evb which showcases the jz4760, while the ya would probably only expose a subset of the jz4760 functionality 2011-03-07 02:14 and i'm not sure if they are interested in building a community yet 2011-03-07 02:14 though it is worth a try 2011-03-07 02:16 evbs are kinda strange devices. a ya could be a lot more convincing. like companies going crazy with trying to clone the iphone/ipad, but very few hot for the (probably) underlying reference designs. 2011-03-07 02:17 sharism/qi-hw ought to have earned a few credentials by now. they must have expected it to be long dead already ;-) 2011-03-07 02:17 hehe 2011-03-07 02:19 they signed a licensing agreement with MIPS, so I guess they are targeting the non-chinese market now too. 2011-03-07 02:20 larsc: that would be very much in our favour 2011-03-07 02:20 maybe they could be convinced that it is in their interest to have something like the Ya as a reference design 2011-03-07 02:21 larsc: yup. now, where's wolfgang when we need him ? :) 2011-03-07 02:21 espcially when beeing told that companies like TI and Freescale do the same 2011-03-07 02:21 wpwrak: probably asleep for another two hours 2011-03-07 02:21 larsc: oh yes, sometimes reminding companies of their competitors works wonders ;-) 2011-03-07 02:23 larsc: (wolfgang) until ~1 pm, beijing time ? did he do some particularly hard partying last night ? ;-) 2011-03-07 02:24 wpwrak: wolfgang have a meeting with a robotic company i remenber 2011-03-07 02:25 probably skynet inc. 2011-03-07 02:26 btw. as far as i can see the JZ47XX SoC family chips are among the few MIPS based SoCs(If not the only ones) that are competetive in the embedded mobile market. 2011-03-07 02:26 wpwrak: ucrobotics.com 2011-03-07 02:26 so it might as well has been in MIPS Inc. 2011-03-07 02:27 kristianpaul: cute :) 2011-03-07 02:27 wpwrak: yeah 2011-03-07 02:27 so it might as well has been in MIPS Inc.' interest to have them expand to a global market 2011-03-07 02:28 larsc: ah yes, that would make sense. mips' role is kinda obscure anyway 2011-03-07 02:29 ARM has become omnipresent while the same can't be said about MIPS 2011-03-07 02:29 they are still used in quite a lot of routers and such 2011-03-07 02:29 yeah, you have a point there ;-) 2011-03-07 02:30 but i've yet have to see a MIPS based mobile phone 2011-03-07 02:30 basically arm became the intel of embedded while mips became the via 2011-03-07 02:31 hm 2011-03-07 02:31 *nods* 2011-03-07 03:14 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: add reset help http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/9b840cd 2011-03-07 03:14 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: remove duplicate code http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/7597779 2011-03-07 03:56 [commit] Jo-Philipp Wich: The cxxtools static library is not built anymore after autoreconf, do not attempt to package it http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/61c62b6 2011-03-07 03:56 [commit] Jo-Philipp Wich: Rely on standard autoreconf facility, remove manual autoreconf all, define prereq on host guile http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b14002b 2011-03-07 03:56 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: [mtd.nn] using /bin/sh http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b914455 2011-03-07 07:05 hello 2011-03-07 07:06 Barebones may be interesting if someone does a MIPS version 2011-03-07 07:06 http://free-electrons.com/blog/barebox-201103/ 2011-03-07 07:06 s/barebones/barebox/ 2011-03-07 07:15 wolfspraul: have you seen the discussion with lars about the 4760/4760b in the irc log ? 2011-03-07 07:22 wolfspraul, ah, nice talk with you but with bad coffee :-( 2011-03-07 07:26 rjeffries: heh, "do everything just like in the kernel but avoid actually *using* the kernel at any price". sometimes you really have to wonder :) 2011-03-07 07:27 wpwrak: it's the kernel without userland support 2011-03-07 07:28 single-user linux 2011-03-07 07:42 larsc: how much of a difference would user space notice, once the kernel has the necessary drivers in place ? should be pretty much the same, no ? except for things that explicitly touch the hardware (evil-menu2x, bit-banging, ...) 2011-03-07 07:43 wpwrak: what do you mean? 2011-03-07 07:44 difference compared to what? 2011-03-07 07:44 you mean for a jz4760 based board compared to the nanonote? 2011-03-07 07:44 larsc: changes required in user space, compared to what we have for the ben 2011-03-07 07:44 larsc: yes 2011-03-07 07:45 wpwrak: i was able to boot the nanonote userland without problems on the jz4760 evb 2011-03-07 07:45 oooh ... sorry, i got confused about the threads ;-) 2011-03-07 07:46 ah... 2011-03-07 07:46 now it makes sense 2011-03-07 07:46 thought you were referring to the 4760 discussion but instead you meant barebox :) 2011-03-07 07:46 so barebox is a patched kernel ? 2011-03-07 07:47 it's more of a light-weight api compatible reimplementation 2011-03-07 07:47 i think the idea was to be able to reuse kernel drivers 2011-03-07 07:48 but i must admit that i haven't actually looked at the code 2011-03-07 07:49 sounds a bit like u-boot. there are also copies of kernel code in there. of course, in heavily modified permanent forks ... 2011-03-07 07:49 barebox is u-boot v2 2011-03-07 07:50 yeah. new shinier outfit, all the same design flaws ;-) 2011-03-07 07:50 high time for kexecboot. let's stop all the nonsense :) 2011-03-07 07:50 i wonder if people realize that you can boot a linux kernel with a minimal initrd in about the same time as uboot 2011-03-07 07:50 yup 2011-03-07 07:51 quite obviously they don't ;-) 2011-03-07 07:54 [commit] Werner Almesberger: usrp/sps/20110306: examine sidebands ("spikes") and try to reduce them http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/a60fb1e 2011-03-07 07:55 wpwrak: no did not see the discussion. 2011-03-07 07:57 wolfspraul: the highlights: lars is getting the 4760 to boot with "proper" linux. 4720/4740 is not recommended for new designs http://en.ingenic.cn/product.aspx?CID=11 2011-03-07 07:58 wolfspraul: so all this suggests that the 4760 may be a better choice for a ya than the 4740, and also that this choice may be more viable than previous discussion suggested 2011-03-07 07:59 wolfspraul: i also brought up the idea that ingenic may perhaps be interested in sponsoring (all or a part of) ya development, in order to a) mainline 4760 support, and b) have a real-life reference device 2011-03-07 08:00 wolfspraul: ah, and 4760 has been replaced by 4760b, with many cute little changes: ftp://ftp.ingenic.cn/2soc/4760/JZ4760B_an01_vs4760.pdf 2011-03-07 08:00 wolfspraul: maybe you want to visit ingenic some day :) 2011-03-07 08:00 ha yes, that's a funny page (Ingenic's) 2011-03-07 08:02 4730 is indeed bad, but putting 4740 on the list of 'not recommended' just shows how much trouble they have getting people off of 4740. 2011-03-07 08:02 4750 and 4755 were never a commercial success, and they won't become one anymore this late in the game. 2011-03-07 08:03 I hope 4760 will be a big hit for Ingenic, because otherwise the slowly shrinking 4740 margins may squeeze them badly. 2011-03-07 08:03 ah, political EOL :) 2011-03-07 08:04 well, then they should like the idea of sponsoring a shiny device with an open design even better ;-) 2011-03-07 08:04 I highly doubt that will happen either. You don't understand how much and how long they are holding on to every last penny. 2011-03-07 08:05 expecting such kind of sponsorship beyond kind words is most likely unsuccessful. 2011-03-07 08:05 i guess it depends on how desperate they are to make people "get" the 4760 2011-03-07 08:06 and of course your sweettalking skills ;-) 2011-03-07 08:07 no way, this is a business. 2011-03-07 08:07 no 'sweettalking' 2011-03-07 08:07 they are not desperate, hopefully 4760 is a great product. 2011-03-07 08:08 you cannot bribe your own customers... 2011-03-07 08:08 Lars mentioned that they put some full programmers' manuals on the ftp server now? 2011-03-07 08:08 have you seen siemens lately ? ;-))) 2011-03-07 08:08 I have to check which ones are there actually, this would be great news. 2011-03-07 08:08 _ds is there. board design guide as well 2011-03-07 08:08 haven't seen _pm 2011-03-07 08:10 (business/sweettalking) marketing is also part of business ... 2011-03-07 08:12 in a way, trying to get vendors to sponsor development work would be a much more honest model than your favoured earn-by-selling devices approach. there's a lot of free publicity and long-term value that's being created in this project that has no relation to short-term revenues. it would only be fair to remind those who derive a strong benefit from this of this fact, and to have them help with the effort 2011-03-07 08:13 earn-by-selling has its place, but that works a lot better once you've made it past this grossly inefficient long-term investment period 2011-03-07 08:15 this is called 'technical marketing' and long and aggressively being done already, with strong metrics in place to make sure there is good payback. 2011-03-07 08:15 wpwrak, wolfspraul: all of the _pm.pdf are on their ftp 2011-03-07 08:15 also, if ingenic are trying hard to get people to accept the 4760, this may be a short window of opportunity. there is nothing to be won by just waiting for it to close 2011-03-07 08:15 larsc: where ? 2011-03-07 08:15 I would need to learn a lot of technical marketing tricks first before daring to go into this business - not interested. 2011-03-07 08:16 wpwrak: ftp://ftp.ingenic.cn/2soc/ 2011-03-07 08:16 wolfspraul: what would be the downside of asking ? 2011-03-07 08:16 wpwrak: relax, I have been discussing this with Ingenic many times, and many months ago, and I will continue to do so. 2011-03-07 08:16 but Ingenic is a business and they have been setup to make money (sell), not to spend money. 2011-03-07 08:16 maybe something can be worked out in conjunction with one of their customers. 2011-03-07 08:16 (docs) wow. this is wonderful ! 2011-03-07 08:16 yes, I agree. that's great news! 2011-03-07 08:22 wpwrak: hmm. looks like they screwed up otg on the 4760? 2011-03-07 08:22 so the 4760b fixes that 2011-03-07 08:23 I just quickly glanced over the 4760b pdf. 2011-03-07 08:23 you need to read this the Chinese way. those docs are super euphemistic. 2011-03-07 08:23 basically every new 'design' is like a big gamble 2011-03-07 08:23 because they work with totally under-qualified employees 2011-03-07 08:23 will it work? which bugs do we have? 2011-03-07 08:23 only after some time you see whether this thing actually works, and how many features have to be 'removed' :-) 2011-03-07 08:24 just like software 2011-03-07 08:24 of course their customers know this as well, and work with similar staff. quickly turn aroudn the product, throw to the market, see whether it sells (i.e. whether it works) 2011-03-07 08:24 I mean if a non-working product would sell they would of course love this business too, but it's rather unlikely... 2011-03-07 08:25 since I started working with Ingenic, all their staff has changed, except for the top level management which is far removed from technical reality. 2011-03-07 08:25 yeah, revisions are usually mainly admissions of prior screw-ups. nothing new there :) 2011-03-07 08:25 :-) 2011-03-07 08:25 oh dear 2011-03-07 08:26 do you still consider them a viable source then ? 2011-03-07 08:29 wonders if this could be used to our advantage when discussing sponsorship. "given that all the engineering has changed [which i haven't told so many people yet] we would like to help strengthen the design-credibility of the 4760" ... sometimes, a little polite blackmail can go a long way ;-) 2011-03-07 08:30 and even more so if it's actually true :) 2011-03-07 08:32 wpwrak: of course all is fine with them. If the pm's are open now that's great. 2011-03-07 08:32 they are a chip supplier, that's all. I need to check how good the 4760 really is, and whether we take unnecessary design risks or whether it's safe. 2011-03-07 08:33 about 'sponsorship', I already said - if a lot of smiles and nice words is good, that's possible 2011-03-07 08:33 also some free lunches 2011-03-07 08:33 and declarations of eternal friendship, new era of whatever 2011-03-07 08:33 ;-) 2011-03-07 08:33 but rest assured they will hold onto every penny of cold hard cash like their life is on the line 2011-03-07 08:34 so you're saying they don't believe technical marketing is worth the effort 2011-03-07 08:34 Chinese companies are not that advanced yet, I think. 2011-03-07 08:34 plus the best company to propose technical marketing to them would be a successful existing technical marketing company. 2011-03-07 08:34 I don't even know by what metrics they work, report their results, etc. 2011-03-07 08:34 I'm just a product guy. 2011-03-07 08:35 well, maybe you can share some reactions with them. ask a few people what they think of the 4760b. mention how much changed since the 4760. mention that it's a new team, not the one that made the - proven - 4740 and friends 2011-03-07 08:35 I just need to ask how it's selling, and how 4740 is selling. 2011-03-07 08:36 I've heard that supposedly there is a 'xburst android phone already shipping in Europe' 2011-03-07 08:36 that sounds like the uber-version of wishful thinking, all combined into the least amount of words 2011-03-07 08:36 sure, you may not be the best advisor on this. but then, you're someone who does have something that could help, namely a product where everyone can look under the hood as much and as long as they want 2011-03-07 08:36 but I can look into it, say by trying to buy one of those 'android xburst phones already selling in europe' 2011-03-07 08:37 yeah, a bit of extra information can't hurt 2011-03-07 08:44 wow nice, just checking on ingenic ftp server 2011-03-07 08:44 the pms are indeed all there 2011-03-07 08:46 I'd say that alone puts them into a rare category, no? I haven't checked what Marvell, Freescale, Qualcomm, TI and the others are doing, but full documentation without NDA is at good as it gets. Probably redistribution rights are still missing, simply because they just cannot understand what that thing could possible be. 2011-03-07 08:46 even in several meetings, I was unable to convince them that this strange additional paragraph I ask them to add isn't some kind of trap that they just don't understand :-) 2011-03-07 08:46 so whatever, screw the redistribution rights 2011-03-07 08:47 we have dsv to work around these ;-) 2011-03-07 08:47 I get a phenomenal 2 KiB / second from their FTP server, that hasn't changed a bit in the last 2 years. 2011-03-07 08:48 can wget do a recursive retrieve on a whole ftp tree? 2011-03-07 08:48 I think I will backup everything just in case. 2011-03-07 08:49 wget -r seems to work just fine ;-) 2011-03-07 08:49 BOOKSHELF will be next 2011-03-07 08:50 and indeed, this little move makes them quite a lot better for our purposes 2011-03-07 08:51 wolfspraul: you should send them flowers or whatever is appropriate :) 2011-03-07 08:52 2.14 kB/s here 2011-03-07 08:53 interesting. there's now a jz4720_pm 2011-03-07 08:55 I'd say 50% or more of the reason they open the pms is because of Lars work and the kernel.org inclusion 2011-03-07 08:55 the other 50% is the MIPS license they finally had to take, and start paying money to MIPS (in other words, their 'patent-free' strategy failed) 2011-03-07 08:55 so they no longer have to be afraid 2011-03-07 08:56 so they think 2011-03-07 08:56 another item for your next visit: find out what made them change their mind 2011-03-07 08:56 thay haven't heard about freelancing patent trolls yet, and I will not enlighten them 2011-03-07 08:57 !censor enlighten 2011-03-07 08:58 (i hope qi-bot got the hint ;-) 2011-03-07 08:59 the deal with mips may also provide some protection in this regard 2011-03-07 08:59 not sure the patent trolls care, and it would be hard for MIPS to find a reason for them to stop 2011-03-07 09:00 I will let a wget -r run over the 2soc tree now... (or the next days, it seems :-)) 2011-03-07 09:01 maybe I can get permission to mirror it at downloads.qi-hardware.com 2011-03-07 09:01 well, mips could challenge their patents. look at google fighting patents [potentially] used against android 2011-03-07 09:01 oh yes. intermittent 2 kB/s be gone :) 2011-03-07 09:03 but let's finish the wget -r first, then the dsv setup, ... 2011-03-07 09:06 did David already succeed in getting XBurst hardware acceleration into mplayer? 2011-03-07 09:06 his mail sounds terrific to me... 2011-03-07 09:06 he seems to be partially there. yes, amazing stuff 2011-03-07 09:07 all the people clamoring for their iWhatever-grade multimedia nanonote may still get their wish :) 2011-03-07 09:11 my wget is struggling. connection stalls all the time :-( 2011-03-07 09:12 yep 2011-03-07 09:12 :-) 2011-03-07 09:12 actually I may demo milkymist one to Ingenic next time 2011-03-07 09:13 we have a whole list as usual, and surely 4760 is there as well. but I will demo m1 and see what they think. 2011-03-07 09:13 wpwrak: mine is 116Kb/s. 2011-03-07 09:13 xiangfu: so you're the one snatching all the bandwidth !!! :) 2011-03-07 09:14 wolfspraul: sounds cool. you never know what may interest them. when do you think of meeting them ? 2011-03-07 09:15 wpwrak: then I can try to send them to you. if we can put those file in our server?? 2011-03-07 09:16 no fixed plan, maybe in a few weeks. I have some urgent things to settle first, like an upgrade of our payment gateway. 2011-03-07 09:18 xiangfu: we can't put them there officially ... 2011-03-07 09:19 wpwrak: ok. you can try to download in my blog server. if my blog is faster then ingenic's server. 2011-03-07 09:19 xiangfu: unless they added a redistribution clause, let's wait until we get an official 'ok' in a meeting with Liu Qiang. 2011-03-07 09:19 wolfspraul: ok. 2011-03-07 09:20 it will be hard to even explain this question, but I gladly go through this inter-cultural experience :-) 2011-03-07 09:22 wolfspraul: the technical argument alone may be sufficient :) 2011-03-07 09:31 correct. I will offer to donate bandwidth to them. 2011-03-07 09:31 they count every penny (literally), and the ftp server is so slow because it's the cheapest they could find. 2011-03-07 09:31 I am not kidding. 2011-03-07 09:31 heh 2011-03-07 09:32 if you think about that for a while you realize that your idea of 'sponsorship' (where you actually think about thousands or tens of thousands of USD at least), may not work all that well :-) 2011-03-07 09:32 maybe they should offer to send CDs for a fee 2011-03-07 09:32 don't give them that idea 2011-03-07 09:32 I won't :) 2011-03-07 09:32 they will hire some people and maybe can make a few cents on it. 2011-03-07 09:32 its a pita for casual tinkerers 2011-03-07 09:35 wpwrak: Downloaded: 79 files, 203M in 24m 45s (140 KB/s): http://www.openmobilefree.net/other/Ingenic_Docs/ftp.ingenic.cn/2soc/ 2011-03-07 09:37 wolfspraul: ever heard "pennywise smart, poundwise foolish" ? ;-) you should thank them for saving all the pennies so that they can pay you many pounds :) 2011-03-07 09:38 xiangfu: thanks ! i like the bandwidth of your server ;-) 2011-03-07 09:38 nice try. they have much more money than me, and I am not just trying to get some of that? None of this will work. 2011-03-07 09:38 ah yes, xiangfu just did the Chinese solution 2011-03-07 09:42 just finished downloading the 4760 pm, and yes, it looks like it's all complete and all public 2011-03-07 09:42 perfect 2011-03-07 09:42 917 pages, soon they are in the 1k+ pages datasheet club 2011-03-07 09:45 wolfspraul: (none of this will work) and only certain way of failing is to never try :) 2011-03-07 09:48 ftp.ingenic.cn actually picked up quite a bit of speed now. 80 kB/s ! 2011-03-07 09:48 100 kB/s. 2011-03-07 10:55 hey, hows everyone doing? 2011-03-07 10:56 i'm a linux user, and i've got my hp printer to work, using foo2hp... but i'm having trouble getting the printer to work on a windows computer 2011-03-07 10:57 i'm wondering if its possible to use the linux driver... since i think its a PostScript driver, on a windows machine? 2011-03-07 10:57 i don't think PostScript is a compiled binary, but rather an answer file, so i hoped it was possible... does anyone have any experience with this? 2011-03-07 10:57 El-Aurian: wrong channel, sorry 2011-03-07 10:58 jow_laptop: kk, which channel should i ask on? 2011-03-07 10:58 El-Aurian: afair there is a general #hardware channel 2011-03-07 10:59 jow_laptop: yeh, its ##hardware, thanks :) 2011-03-07 10:59 np 2011-03-07 11:22 jow_laptop: there is a problem. libopcodes.so is not built anymore by binutils (only libopcodes.la). It is a part of this problem: https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/8603. It was addressed in gcc-mips by cp $(STAGING_DIR)/usr/lib/libopcodes*.so $(1)/usr/lib 2011-03-07 11:23 but now even this ugly hack won't work 2011-03-07 11:25 someone suggested to install libopcodes.so in objdump package (https://dev.openwrt.org/attachment/ticket/8603/binutils_libopcode.patch), but this patch wasn't accepted (though it wouldn't work now anyway) 2011-03-07 11:26 kyak: not even libopcodes.a ? 2011-03-07 11:28 jow_laptop: there is libopcodes.a 2011-03-07 11:28 i'm trying now if --enable-shared would work 2011-03-07 11:29 kyak: there's some libtool heisenbug that, depending on the used autoreconf version (wtf?), randomly disabled or enables shared/static library building 2011-03-07 11:30 heh. does it mean we should always provide --enable-shared or --enable-static? 2011-03-07 11:31 no, thats the default 2011-03-07 11:31 at least its opposed to be 2011-03-07 11:31 if the wheather conditions are okay, and there's no solar maximum etc. 2011-03-07 11:32 jow_laptop: ok, the --enable-shared made libopcodes.so build 2011-03-07 11:34 kyak: ok good, anything to fix on the openwrt side? 2011-03-07 11:35 jow_laptop: just a minute, i'm going to put together the --enable-shared and installation of libopcodes 2011-03-07 11:36 allright 2011-03-07 11:44 don't migrate to the jz4760 yet, the jz47xx_vid might need a complete rewrite (different IPU used, afaics) :) 2011-03-07 11:50 dvdk: tested your driver for mplayer, it worked fine! However, the video was still very slow (no different from -vo sdl) 2011-03-07 11:51 dvdk: and fbdev output always has these horizontal lines on top and bottom of screen. 2011-03-07 11:51 i.e. i can see the console in background 2011-03-07 11:53 kyak: nice to hear it works 2011-03-07 11:53 about your complaints: just details easiy fix. 2011-03-07 11:53 s/easiy/easy to/ 2011-03-07 11:54 kyak: when the scaler works we can use slightly smaller video and zoom up to full-screen. 2011-03-07 11:54 this should get us proper 30FPS video 2011-03-07 11:54 slightly smaller, why? 2011-03-07 11:55 theora full-screen decode at 30FPS is too slow for me currently 2011-03-07 11:55 but 240x180 or something should work.Â Â and scaling is practically for free 2011-03-07 11:56 ah, ok 2011-03-07 11:56 maybe ffmpeg-theora is going to be fast enough, though 2011-03-07 11:57 also, re-encoding with 15FPS is an option 2011-03-07 11:57 i think it will be noticeable? 2011-03-07 12:17 jow_laptop: http://pastebin.mandriva.com/22059 2011-03-07 12:18 jow_laptop: apparently, installation of libbfd*.so is also necessary.. Otherwise binutils complain that it missing (guess it is due to --enable-shared) 2011-03-07 12:18 jow_laptop: thanks a lot for your support :) moving on, jfbterm is the next failure 2011-03-07 12:41 [commit] kyak: jfbterm: fix build http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/97ed0cb 2011-03-07 13:09 Hi, if the nanonote processor supports USB 1.1 host, why doesn't the nanonote support it? 2011-03-07 13:10 kuribas: because nobody cared to implement it?Â Â maybe no 5V USB bus-power available to create a host port? 2011-03-07 13:11 Implement in hardware you mean? 2011-03-07 13:12 kuribas: the main obstacle is that the USB host signals are not "exported" from the chip (the chip is bonded directly to the board) 2011-03-07 13:12 I see. 2011-03-07 13:12 kuribas: why that happened, i have no idea. maybe it was an oversight. maybe there were technical reasons. 2011-03-07 13:13 Host mode is something I would find very useful. 2011-03-07 13:13 dvdk: and yes, you'd need 5 V, too. if you feel sneaky, you could just run a cable from USB device VBUS to USB host VBUS ;-) 2011-03-07 13:13 kuribas: you're not alone ;-) 2011-03-07 13:14