2011-03-03 00:01 news item for march - OE have support of NN in vanilla kernel recipes now 2011-03-03 00:01 i.e. you may build now .37 2011-03-03 00:01 thanks to Andrea Adami :) 2011-03-03 00:02 we are trying to bring kexec to usable state now.. 2011-03-03 00:04 .37 is great news !! 2011-03-03 00:08 [commit] Werner Almesberger: sal/: primitive USRP2-based spectrum analyzer http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/e6f62bc 2011-03-03 00:20 phew. finally found a way to un-GL the darn usrp2_fft 2011-03-03 00:23 it's actually easy. just two lines to change. 2011-03-03 01:38 roh: you there? I'm sitting here with Xiangfu and we try to assemble two cases :-) 2011-03-03 01:39 I am a little lost with the 3 buttons. 2011-03-03 01:39 are we supposed to add glue? the 3 pieces don't seem to glue... 2011-03-03 01:40 yes 2011-03-03 01:41 man cool. survival Xiangfu has a glue gun in his backpack!!! 2011-03-03 01:42 larsc: thanks a lot, we are back on track... 2011-03-03 01:42 always good to carry some glue with you, just in case... 2011-03-03 01:48 recovers from a power failure 2011-03-03 06:09 < wolfspraul> always good to carry some glue with you, just in case... <-- this has made my morning :))) 2011-03-03 07:23 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update usbboot version http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/86d8824 2011-03-03 07:23 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update changelog, INSTALL http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/8170afb 2011-03-03 07:23 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update debian changelog http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/51b7b51 2011-03-03 07:44 guys 2011-03-03 07:44 i just connected to Ben via serial 2011-03-03 07:45 a do echo 32 > /dev/ttyS0 on Ben, and receive it in my terminal emulator on PC 2011-03-03 07:45 i have ttyS0::askfirst:/bin/ash --login in /etc/inittab 2011-03-03 07:45 but i don't see any command prompt in serial console 2011-03-03 07:45 what's the problem? 2011-03-03 07:50 kyak: the baud rate is 57600. 2011-03-03 07:50 what app you using in PC? 2011-03-03 07:50 yep, i got it right.. otherwise i won't receive the test string 2011-03-03 07:50 putty 2011-03-03 07:51 so whatever i send to /dev/ttyS0 from Ben, i receive it on my PC 2011-03-03 07:52 i can't TX back to Ben it seems.. i don't know if tail -f /dev/ttyS0 would work to test it 2011-03-03 07:53 kyak: this should work: while : ; do cat /dev/ttyS0 ; done 2011-03-03 07:53 ok 2011-03-03 07:53 tail -f not 2011-03-03 07:53 i rebooted Ben 2011-03-03 07:53 and i see output in serial 2011-03-03 07:53 wait. 2011-03-03 07:54 but i can't type in -\ 2011-03-03 07:54 you must press "S" when power on. for make the serial full work. 2011-03-03 07:54 ah! 2011-03-03 07:54 (the serial under battery) 2011-03-03 07:54 yes 2011-03-03 07:54 under the batery 2011-03-03 07:54 HAHA 2011-03-03 07:55 this is great 2011-03-03 07:55 xiangfu: thanks a lot :) 2011-03-03 07:55 someone is celebrating :) 2011-03-03 07:56 yea! i found the damn cable, and it was free.. Then i didn't solder it right (TX<->RX), but now it's workingÂ Â :) 2011-03-03 07:56 kyak: if possible, i think it would be better to connect to the other serial pins: no conflict with the keyboard 2011-03-03 07:56 wpwrak: i'm thinkinh about it. But, if i'm connected via serial, i don't usually need Ben's keyboard 2011-03-03 07:56 kyak: and you shouldn't need to press S for the other pins either (at least i never had to so far) 2011-03-03 07:57 ah.. that's good 2011-03-03 07:57 another thing 2011-03-03 07:57 i can't insert battery with these wires 2011-03-03 07:57 under the battery 2011-03-03 07:57 use thinner wires ;-) 2011-03-03 07:57 they end up with a connector 2011-03-03 07:58 anyway 2011-03-03 07:58 wpwrak: you don't even imagine the ugliness of my solder work 2011-03-03 07:58 there is tin everywhere under the battery now 2011-03-03 07:58 kyak: well, you managed this. so you'll also be fine with UBB :) 2011-03-03 07:59 ok, i will try to explore the second posibility now... 2011-03-03 08:01 upload the new version xburst-tools. support 'reset' command. 2011-03-03 08:01 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/xburst-tools/downloads/ 2011-03-03 08:04 ehehe 2011-03-03 08:04 stupid kexec 2011-03-03 08:05 showing interesting things to me 2011-03-03 08:05 in serial console 2011-03-03 08:05 now it's not just "Bye" 2011-03-03 08:08 ;-) 2011-03-03 08:10 hm, i wonder, how can i boot "S" and "M" at the same time? :) 2011-03-03 08:10 i.e. serial console, take kernel from SD card 2011-03-03 08:14 kyak: yes. you can press BOTH "S" and "M" . you will see the u-boot output in serial . 2011-03-03 08:15 the "U" is very first check. then check if "S" pressed. then "M/F1/F2/F3/F4" 2011-03-03 08:37 xiangfu: thnkas 2011-03-03 08:42 NAND Boot 2011-03-03 08:42 Starting U-Boot ... 2011-03-03 08:42 [S] pressed, enable UART0 2011-03-03 08:42 [M] pressed, boot from sd card 2011-03-03 08:42 kyak: ^ 2011-03-03 08:43 when you press "S" . the u-boot will delay 3 seconds. 2011-03-03 08:43 for you active the u-boot console. 2011-03-03 08:43 if there is no input in serial. u-boot will load kernel. 2011-03-03 08:44 wpwrak: http://pastebin.com/b26whTw0 2011-03-03 08:44 xiangfu: now i'm able to go deeper for udnerstanding of kexec problem :) 2011-03-03 08:45 everything > line 154 was not visible before 2011-03-03 08:47 wpwrak: "Incorrect memory mapping !!! 2011-03-03 08:47 wpwrak: "Incorrect memory mapping !!!" - do you have any ideas? 2011-03-03 08:48 this doesn't look too bad. no, don't know what this is. looks like something architecture-specific. 2011-03-03 08:52 hm, ok 2011-03-03 08:53 btw, i re-soldered it 2011-03-03 08:53 with thinner wires 2011-03-03 08:53 i still have the connector that plugges to USB-UART cable 2011-03-03 08:54 so when i'm finished, i'll solder it all off :) 2011-03-03 09:04 I wonder why the jz4750 does no add_memory_region() in its setup code 2011-03-03 09:04 looks like that would solve the kexec error 2011-03-03 09:07 jz4740? 2011-03-03 09:08 http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/mips/jz4740/prom.c 2011-03-03 09:08 the prom setub for the xburst/nn 2011-03-03 09:09 *setup 2011-03-03 09:09 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: avrdude, for programming Atmel AVR Microcontrollers http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/27512b3 2011-03-03 09:09 tuxbrain_away: wpwrak ^ , avrdude added in openwrt-packages.git. just don't know how to test if avrdude works fine. 2011-03-03 09:11 xiangfu: including wpwrak patches? 2011-03-03 09:11 jow_laptop: sorry, i don't understand... 2011-03-03 09:11 tuxbrain_away: forget that patches. adding now. thanks 2011-03-03 09:11 xiangfu: will it overwrite the avrdude from openwrt-feeds? 2011-03-03 09:11 kyak: the panic message after kexec happens if no boot_mem_map exists 2011-03-03 09:12 kyak: this map is populated by calls to "add_memory_region()", other mips boards have such calls in their setup code, but the ingenic soc code has not 2011-03-03 09:12 xiangfu: kyak is right until patches are really finished I think we have to mantain it as some kind of fork 2011-03-03 09:15 kyak: other boards do this in prom init: add_memory_region(0x0, memsz, BOOT_MEM_RAM); 2011-03-03 09:16 jow_laptop: hmm, ok! do you think we could just take it? 2011-03-03 09:16 I have no idea how to determine the ram size from within there 2011-03-03 09:17 but for testing ruposes you could just stick it in with a hardcoded value 2011-03-03 09:18 add_memory_region(0x0, 33554432, BOOT_MEM_RAM); - like this? 2011-03-03 09:18 i.e. hardcoded 32Mb 2011-03-03 09:18 I think the second arg is mb 2011-03-03 09:18 ah ok 2011-03-03 09:18 no wait 2011-03-03 09:19 bytes 2011-03-03 09:19 tuxbrain_away: add the aurdude in openwrt-xburst.git . if define NANONOTE. applied werner's patch. 2011-03-03 09:20 tuxbrain_away: kyak then I will try to send patch to upstream. then remove it from openwrt-xburst.git :) 2011-03-03 09:28 jow_laptop: http://pastebin.com/r6TaFZYt 2011-03-03 09:28 moving on :)) 2011-03-03 09:29 cool xianfu, then instead of my compiled arvdude I will use this to test :) 2011-03-03 09:46 kyak: hmm, no idea about the console 2011-03-03 09:46 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: avrdude add patch for nanonote from werner http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/c5dd13f 2011-03-03 09:47 not finish yet. work on that later. 2011-03-03 09:47 xiangfu: "Â (cd $(PKG_BUILD_DIR); aclocal; automake) " should be replaced with PKG_FIXUP:=autoreconf 2011-03-03 10:05 xMff: it's fine, it's working :) just need to pass the correc cmdline now 2011-03-03 10:05 xMff: thanks a lot! need to ask larsc to make the patch for prom.c more clean and nice 2011-03-03 10:30 xMff: now, seems that kernel cmdline can't be passed via kexec 2011-03-03 10:30 what does CONFIG_IMAGE_CMDLINE_HACK do? 2011-03-03 10:34 kyak: it sets the commandline to a specific pattern ("CMDLINE: ") which is substituted in the final binary 2011-03-03 10:35 substituted by what? 2011-03-03 10:39 by whatever is set in menuconfig 2011-03-03 10:40 ok, so it's not exactly what i need... 2011-03-03 10:40 well 2011-03-03 10:40 it relates to what you need 2011-03-03 10:41 iirc it disables the normal processing of the cmdline 2011-03-03 10:41 the cmdline is always empty, no matter what i set in kexec 2011-03-03 10:42 it means that i won't be able to kexec the same kernel i'm booting 2011-03-03 10:42 not with the cmdline hack in place 2011-03-03 10:42 beacuse in one case (botting via uboot) i don't need the cmdline 2011-03-03 10:42 but in another case (booting via kexec) i do need this hack 2011-03-03 10:45 kyak: you solved tx problem? 2011-03-03 10:46 hm, besides, IMAGE_CMDLINE_HACK is bool... 2011-03-03 10:46 kristianpaul: yep, just needed to boot with "S" 2011-03-03 10:46 ah, nv (read backlog) 2011-03-03 10:47 kyak: i'm think you may get garbage some times as that pin i shared 2011-03-03 10:48 all is good so far :) 2011-03-03 10:48 i'm not using the keyboard 2011-03-03 10:48 Ben's keyboard 2011-03-03 10:52 good 2011-03-03 10:56 larsc: You think using serial port for debugging linux can tell me something about the suspend crashing... 2011-03-03 10:56 Or i can activate some debug flag for RTC?.. 2011-03-03 11:11 kyak: btw, where do you find right cable? :) 2011-03-03 11:12 Jay7: from a colleague of mine :) 2011-03-03 11:12 lucky you :) 2011-03-03 11:13 yes, it was pretty random 2011-03-03 12:02 kyak: congratulations ! you're almost there 2011-03-03 12:03 kyak: line 27 shows you what you need at line 168. so if you put this into CONFIG_CMDLINE of the kernel you're building, you should be fine 2011-03-03 12:04 F7=CD@N $B2 5@HK HK F@D5 H 2IBM5 FDB5 5I 2I ) 2011-03-03 12:04 damn 2011-03-03 12:04 wpwrak: yeah, and this is what i don't want to do 2011-03-03 12:05 i dont't want to hardcode the CONFIG_CMDLINE 2011-03-03 12:05 right now it is passed by u-boot. I fairly enough expect kexec to be able to do the same 2011-03-03 12:08 wpwrak: sorry, i forgot to mention here that even if i do kexec -l .. --append="$(cat /proc/cmdline)", the "Kernel command line: " is still empty 2011-03-03 12:09 the other guy on #kexecboot suggested putting some printf in kexec-tools, and we see that the cmdline is actually formed there.. But somehow it is not received by kernel 2011-03-03 12:09 kyak: (pass cmdline in the kernel) i mean while testing. to see if anything else is missing 2011-03-03 12:10 kyak: yeah, the kernel's low-level code may simply implement a different convention for accepting the command line. you have to look at the code on both ends. 2011-03-03 12:10 i agree, i'll test now if the hardcoded cmdline would work.. 2011-03-03 12:10 i'm salmost sure it will 2011-03-03 12:11 famous last words ;-) 2011-03-03 12:11 in fact, i was sure without "almost" before you said "if anything else is missing" :) 2011-03-03 12:12 so now i'm in doubt, too 2011-03-03 12:12 ;-)) 2011-03-03 12:13 potential problems include drivers that leave things in a state where they can't restart it 2011-03-03 12:13 yes, ar71xx in openwrt has such an issue with the on-flash board data 2011-03-03 12:13 can't find mac addresses after kexec 2011-03-03 12:14 xMff: debugging kexec is fun :) people at IBM did quite a lot of work there, when they made kdump 2011-03-03 12:14 wpwrak: so you only solve problems to find bigger problems behind it :) 2011-03-03 12:15 alas, each driver can exhibit some surprise 2011-03-03 12:18 kyak: regarding the memory size, I suppose parsing the mem= argument from the cmdline and falling back to 32mb is the way to go 2011-03-03 12:19 I do not know whether it is possible to probe the memory 2011-03-03 12:21 xMff: i really hope that larsc would come up with a nice and clean solution for this... After all, he's the one who did prom.c :) 2011-03-03 12:22 Hmm, just booted Muffinman with 2.6.37 and my screen colors are all fudged up 2011-03-03 12:22 larsc, an issue with my defconfig? 2011-03-03 12:22 This is vanilla + the modifier keys patch 2011-03-03 12:24 xMff: wpwrak: http://pastebin.com/xvvTLRvZ CMDLINE hardcoded - works like a charm :) 2011-03-03 12:25 great 2011-03-03 12:26 but to make it work with cmdline supplied by kexec - this is the question... 2011-03-03 12:26 is the cmdline hack actually needed? 2011-03-03 12:26 nope 2011-03-03 12:26 it is usually only used for boards with known faulty bootloaders 2011-03-03 12:26 i onyl set CONFIG_CMDLINE_BOOL and CONFIG_CMDLINE 2011-03-03 12:27 kyak: congratulations ! does the display work, too ? 2011-03-03 12:27 why is the hack enabled in the normal Qi builds? 2011-03-03 12:28 wpwrak: sometimes yes, sometimes no :) 2011-03-03 12:28 xMff: it is disabled in 2.6.37. But what is trange to me, is that 2.6.32 is actually rellocatable kernel 2011-03-03 12:29 seems that CMDLINES is overwritten by uboot 2011-03-03 12:32 wpwrak: hmm, i disabled the serial console , all seem to work fine 2011-03-03 12:33 just did a fast boot from 2.6.32 to 2.6.37 with switching of rootfs 2011-03-03 12:33 :) 2011-03-03 12:39 i'm about to see how it would work for gmenu2x 2011-03-03 12:39 not changing the rootfs in this case 2011-03-03 12:41 it just works :)( 2011-03-03 12:41 Also, the screen blanks to white 2011-03-03 12:47 not quite "just". Something wrong with dropbear or network. This is minor, passing the cmdline is major 2011-03-03 13:20 congrats kyak , then I supose the graphical dinamic multiboot is near isn't it? 2011-03-03 13:21 tuxbrain_away: you should ask Jay7 about it, i'm just helping out :) 2011-03-03 13:21 kexecboot is just working :) 2011-03-03 13:21 we need working kexec 2011-03-03 13:21 yup 2011-03-03 13:22 Rusian powa! 2011-03-03 13:22 :)) 2011-03-03 14:04 :-) 2011-03-03 16:36 UBB had just arrived :) they look great :) 2011-03-03 16:44 tuxbrain_away: wheee !! do they fit well ? 2011-03-03 16:46 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/tree/master/arch/mips/jz4740/prom.c#L87 2011-03-03 16:46 xMff: hm...... 2011-03-03 16:46 i'm confused 2011-03-03 16:46 there is add_memory_region() in qi-kernel git. But it didn't got into the kernel?? 2011-03-03 16:48 kyak: maybe due to quality 2011-03-03 16:49 hardcoded etc. 2011-03-03 16:49 could be.. 2011-03-03 16:50 well, i wonder if i should take prom_init_cmdline(); now it will solve other problems 2011-03-03 16:50 it's strange, cause i specifically asked lars about the difference between openwrt-trunk and qi-kernel kernels. He said it is openwrt logo :) 2011-03-03 17:04 B_Lizzard: you are missing the display driver 2011-03-03 17:13 wpwrak: fits like a glove dude :) uploading pics to wiki 2011-03-03 17:13 tuxbrain_away: excellent. congratulations !! 2011-03-03 17:14 tuxbrain_away: seems that your pcb fab is a keeper :) 2011-03-03 17:24 tuxbrain_away: (pics to wiki) and more importantly, to the shop, getting rid of my ugly hand-crafted board :) 2011-03-03 17:26 wpwrak: will do don't worry and of course it will deserve a post :) 2011-03-03 17:27 tuxbrain_away (UBB arrived): BTW what about the extra AVR ICs? 2011-03-03 17:28 tuxbrain_away: can you add them to the order and tell me how much i owe you? 2011-03-03 17:28 tuxbrain_away: (post) even better :) 2011-03-03 17:28 larsc, were these patches never merged? 2011-03-03 17:28 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/commit/a7ce78192cc635caee35461c493cca5a0eac1390/ 2011-03-03 17:30 sadly I don't have IC , due the stock breack of trough hole I only have Arduino UNO smd editon , but programing sould work due you atact directly to the chip on SPI, (and comunication should also work) even with the 5-3V3 voltage diference.... at least directly serial from NN to Arduion board does. 2011-03-03 17:31 tuxbrain_away: ok.Â Â you mean if i hook the arduino UNO smd up to the 3.3V of the UBB, it should still work? 2011-03-03 17:32 yep, yu should power the Arduino externaly with a bat or somthing like that and at least on serial works with NN 2011-03-03 17:32 tuxbrain_away: so i need an external battery?Â Â just UBB+NN+Arduino won't do? 2011-03-03 17:33 hmm. 2011-03-03 17:33 no it will not. you need a 5V source to USB or 7-12V on Vinn 2011-03-03 17:33 tipicall a 9V batt 2011-03-03 17:34 B_Lizzard: the driver isn't ready for upstream yet 2011-03-03 17:35 B_Lizzard: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/commit/85061058491114869860964b73e2ae0aacce446e/ 2011-03-03 17:35 tuxbrain_away: thanks for the clarification. Maybe then arduino is not the right thing for me.Â Â I'm searching for something that could work "sandalone" with UBB+NN+NanoNote, powered via the UBB. 2011-03-03 17:35 s/sandalone/standalone 2011-03-03 17:36 then you sould look for an naked Atmega chip 2011-03-03 17:36 tuxbrain_away: just looking (reichelt.de) :) 2011-03-03 17:36 just not very economical.Â Â cheap IC, expensive shipping :( 2011-03-03 17:36 or for a Arduino Mini 3v3 edition... (I don't have this one yet) 2011-03-03 17:37 pretty much any "naked" avr should do. even the weird ones that come with their clock fuse set to "external" will work ... soonish ;-) 2011-03-03 17:37 dvdk: don't you have any walk-in electronics shop where you live ? they may have some avrs 2011-03-03 17:38 wpwrak: no time to "walk-in" :) 2011-03-03 17:38 dvdk: ;-) 2011-03-03 17:39 wpwrak: Berlin is such a big city.Â Â And our public transport is somewhat broken currently ;) 2011-03-03 17:42 dvdk: (public transport) ah, we really have a lot of people in berlin. winter still strong ? if you need to find a shop, roh can probably tell you where they have avrs 2011-03-03 17:43 larsc, yeah, sorry 2011-03-03 17:43 Couldn't remember if we had that applied in our tree or if it was vanilla 2011-03-03 17:44 from http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:UBB_production_01.JPG to http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:UBB_production_08.JPGÂ Â enjoy 2011-03-03 17:45 I don't see some bugfixes either 2011-03-03 17:45 The bug fix in the battery driver 2011-03-03 17:45 The mutex thing 2011-03-03 17:45 wpwrak: i'm actually tempted to try the cheap EVB R8C13, however looks like it cannot be flashed synchronously via UBB :/Â Â http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;ARTICLE=69672 2011-03-03 17:49 So, everything here that has to do with the Nanonote should be applied in our tree? 2011-03-03 17:49 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/changes/jz-2.6.37/ 2011-03-03 17:49 tuxbrain_away: wow, impressive images, maybe more people will buy, once seeing this :) 2011-03-03 17:49 tuxbrain_away: hmm, your shipping is pricy indeed ... btw, your shop should mention which carrier gets used 2011-03-03 17:49 At least the last few stuff 2011-03-03 17:49 tuxbrain_away: ok, then my order stays like it is, no extra arduino added. 2011-03-03 17:50 dvdk: (r8c13) you'd have to find out how this chip is programmed, then check on the schematics if the pins needed for this are connected. some chips have more than one choices. 2011-03-03 17:51 Is not the UPS shied showed? 2011-03-03 17:52 wpwrak: how do you make the graphics on NN they where "online" or reading a file? 2011-03-03 17:52 tuxbrain_away: nice picture. a gazillion of boards ;-)) 2011-03-03 17:52 wpwrak: already had one pass at the datasheets and didn't found anything (it has two async modes, two-wire+ground and one-wire+ground). 2011-03-03 17:52 tuxbrain_away: (ups) oooh, right. now i see the tiny logo ;-) 2011-03-03 17:53 wpwrak: a question: can UBB be used as a serial console interface? 2011-03-03 17:53 kyak: would solve many problems, if it could.Â Â but looks like it can't. 2011-03-03 17:53 tuxbrain_away: (graphics) hmm, i don't understand the question. which graphics ? 2011-03-03 17:53 you should ad a microcontroler for this kyak 2011-03-03 17:54 the ones you do for signal analisys on NN 2011-03-03 17:54 kyak: (serial console) not easily. you could probably make a driver that bit-bangs serial. but it would be inefficient. should be okayish for tx-only, though. 2011-03-03 17:54 you use gnuplot isn't it? 2011-03-03 17:55 i see, thanks ) 2011-03-03 17:55 kyak: you could add some interface circuit that translates some more friendly protocol to uart (or anything more convenient, such as usb device) 2011-03-03 17:56 tuxbrain_away: i use gnuplot a lot, yes. what i used in any specific case would depend on the case. if you tell me which image, i can probably tell you what i used :) 2011-03-03 17:57 I think gnuplot can draw "live" values , isn't it? would be a really cool to do demo for example reading analog values on arduino and show how the graphic varies on NN moving a potentiometer 2011-03-03 17:57 wpwrak: i have an old nokia phone, which has these service pin-outs (and then it's UART, if i'm not mistaken). I thought i could use UBB to connect Ben to it. Can I? 2011-03-03 17:58 even a simple bar or line moving up and down could fit 2011-03-03 17:59 just trying to understand why i need this IC.. Why can't Ben act as one? 2011-03-03 18:02 tuxbrain_away: (live values) hmm, never tried to do that. i think it would be hackish. i've seen xplot being used for live plots 2011-03-03 18:03 kyak: then ben act as uart tx, but you'll have to busy-wait during the transmission (unless your bit rate is very very slow - then you could use timers) 2011-03-03 18:04 mmm maybe this can work http://tech.shantanugoel.com/projects/misc-stuff/real-time-streaming-data-plot-gnuplot 2011-03-03 18:04 kyak: for rx, you'd either have to busy-loop to wait for the start bit or use an interrupt. the problem with the interrupt is interrupt latency. if interrupt latency is too large, then your uart driver would be too late to catch subsequent bits 2011-03-03 18:05 kyak: also, interrupt latency is variable. so an interrupt-driven driver may catch, say, 99% of all bytes, but then miss one 2011-03-03 18:05 wpwrak: ok, i understood that the hardware chip would be better, right? 2011-03-03 18:06 kyak: and interrupt latency varies with kernel activity. so you may be able to use soft-serial well enough when the ben is idle, but RX may be unusable if it's, say, copying files 2011-03-03 18:06 kyak: a dedicated chip can just busy-loop all the time (or even use dedicated uart hardware), and will thus have no problem meeting deadlines 2011-03-03 18:08 tuxbrain_away: (ubb) they scrwed up a little on the points of attachment, but okay, that can be solved with a knife/file/sand paper 2011-03-03 18:09 wpwrak: how does it all work with SD card on the same lines? it also requires low latencies and interrupts/ 2011-03-03 18:09 larsc, sorry for the ball-busting 2011-03-03 18:10 Do I apply anything from "POWER: jz4740-battery: Protect against concurrent battery readings" and above in here http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/changes/jz-2.6.37/ ? 2011-03-03 18:10 tuxbrain_away: i made the order. i wonder if it really got through - i ended up on a page offering/demanding "verified by visa", which i declined, and then it showed up as authorized. so i'm not sure if verified by visa was just politely offered for my consideration or if the transaction wasn't really cleared yet. you may want to have an eye on this. 2011-03-03 18:10 That stuff seems newer 2011-03-03 18:11 wpwrak: yeah I know I have to polish them prior shipping 2011-03-03 18:18 B_Lizzard: the mutex patch is in 2.6.37.1 2011-03-03 18:18 the battery mutex patch 2011-03-03 18:19 The suspend fix? 2011-03-03 18:19 kyak: for SD, there is a controller in the jz4720 that implement the lowest-level protocol in hardware. just like the ben's uart does the bit-level timing and exchanged only entire bytes with the cpu 2011-03-03 18:19 wpwrak: i'm asking because i know that some pins (GPIO) of my router can be used interchangebly as LEDs/serial console/SD card mod. So i thought it is possible in Ben. Can we utilize these lowest-level capabilities? 2011-03-03 18:19 kyak: if you have a chip that does spi slave to whatever conversion, like it's intended for my uart board, then this chip a) uses only a communication with very relaxed timing for the host (the host chooses the clock, etc.), and b) can even do some local buffering. so very long latency on the host (ben) side is acceptable. 2011-03-03 18:19 kyak: for serial, i explained the limitations above. for sd host, yes, you can of course use the existing sd/mmc host controller 2011-03-03 18:19 kyak: sd device would have limitations similar to uart rx. only that the timing would be even more demanding. 2011-03-03 18:19 ok, is it _only_ sd/mmc host controller, or can it do other things? Can it time the uart communication for us? 2011-03-03 18:19 kyak: you have sd/mmc host controller and bit-banging. with big-banging, you do whatever you please, but you should choose carefully what protocols you use :) 2011-03-03 18:19 wpwrak: ok: ) thanks for explanations! 2011-03-03 18:19 tuxbrain_away: if the card transaction didn't get through, i'll just do an interbank transfer. there's no rush anyway. 2011-03-03 18:20 I mean, is the suspend fix upstream or is it in that list? 2011-03-03 18:20 Otherwise I'll just apply the display driver and the blanking issue 2011-03-03 18:22 kyak: one gotcha: before connecting anything via UBB (that isn't an SD/SDIO device), make sure to 2011-03-03 18:22 seems the transaction from my part has been accecpted 2011-03-03 18:22 kyak: echo jz4740-mmc.0 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/jz4740-mmc/unbind 2011-03-03 18:22 suspend fix? 2011-03-03 18:23 kyak: this will turn off the SD/SDIO/MMC driver in the kernel and also ensure the kernel doesn't try to power up your circuit 2011-03-03 18:23 wpwrak: so do i understand correctly that "mmc_over_gpio" driver (like seen here for example: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linksys_WRT54G-TM_SD/MMC_mod) is working in bit-banging mode? 2011-03-03 18:23 wpwrak: thanks for th hint 2011-03-03 18:24 You mentioned that the kernel crash when suspended has been fixed in 2.6.37 2011-03-03 18:24 Something about wakeups 2011-03-03 18:24 i don't think so 2011-03-03 18:24 kyak: power up often requires some "precharging", to avoid an excessive inrush current (if the inrush current it too large, the ben's 3.3 V rail will drop, the ben hangs, and needs to be reset) 2011-03-03 18:25 i said that you can workaround it in sw 2011-03-03 18:25 Ah, OK 2011-03-03 18:26 kyak: (precharing) the exact process depends on the board. this can usually be done by driving all output high or by just putting a little delay between card insertion and power up. if you start the communication manually, then the delay is nornmally implicit. 2011-03-03 18:26 OK, I'll just add the display driver and the blanking fix then 2011-03-03 18:27 Thanks for the help, larsc 2011-03-03 18:27 np 2011-03-03 18:27 you might also want to add the gpio-charger driver 2011-03-03 18:28 it reports whether the battery is currently being charged 2011-03-03 18:28 kyak: (mmc over gpio) yes, looks that way. sd/sdio/mmc host is okay for bit-banging, because the host controls the clock and there are no tight timing requirements on the clock (if there is any lower bound for the clock at all, don't know :) 2011-03-03 18:29 ok, so i got the general idea :) whatever is tx'ed from Ben, or controlled by Ben, is OK :) 2011-03-03 18:30 tuxbrain_away: (transaction) cool. then i'll have some ubb fun next week, too ;-) btw, got any more orders after the first rush ? 2011-03-03 18:33 tuxbrain_away: (rt plot) nice. so "replot" does the trick. 2011-03-03 18:34 kyak: (controlled by ben) yes, that's the point. even rx is okay (e.g., in SPI host, SD/MMC host, etc.), as long as the ben gets to dictate the timing. 2011-03-03 18:35 wpwrak: all right. I'll have that in mind when thinking about possible uses of UBB for me 2011-03-03 18:37 kyak: also, fast synchronous protocols are better than asynchronous or slow synchronous, because you need to wait a minimum (slow sync) or even exact (async) amount of time for those. for fast synchronous, you just set up the data bits, bang the clock, and you're done. 2011-03-03 18:38 kyak: luckily, spi master (and all its derivatives) is one of the fast synchronous ones :) 2011-03-03 18:40 hmm, okay, so the less is the delay between data bits, the better. The best case is no delay between them? :) 2011-03-03 18:41 kyak: the best is if the minimum delay = the maximum frequency is larger than what the ben can output when bit-banging. that way, you never have to worry about going "too fast" 2011-03-03 18:42 kyak: in practice, the frequency will also be limited by characteristics of your transmission line. e.g., if you have a long cable, you'll need to slow down a little. but that's all doable with a few short delay loops. no rocket science. 2011-03-03 18:43 ok, i understand. Need to try it on practice :) 2011-03-03 18:44 kyak: what's bad are low bounds for maximum delays. if they're short, you can also just loop a few times and hope no interrupt interferes. (i do this when programming my c8051f326 chips. programming thus fails every now and then, but it's not really worth the trouble to fix it. failures are reported reliably, and you can just retry) 2011-03-03 18:44 tuxbrain_away: nice looking boards, i may order one but by UPS no sr.. (i can take risk for postal mail) 2011-03-03 18:44 one pack* or whatever mimimal quatity 2011-03-03 18:52 UBB + CPLD.. UBB + RFM12B.. UBB + :-) 2011-03-03 18:52 ups is 43 EUR to argentina. that's a bit less than USD 60. created a bit of phantom pain in my wallet, but i've had worse 2011-03-03 18:52 wpwrak: thanks for this much of information! i really hope i will remember it, when i'll have to do something like this: ) 2011-03-03 18:52 kyak: the irc log is your friend ;-) 2011-03-03 18:52 (irc log) indeed 2011-03-03 18:52 yeah, irclogs is one of the most visited pages on qi by me :) 2011-03-03 18:52 kyak: we'll also have to write up all this stuff at some point in time. there are still a few loose ends, though. e.g., i need to complete the system-clock-provided-by-ben for avr programming (uart will need this), see if i can get my libbb to work, look at uio, and also put some firmer numbers on the power-up process 2011-03-03 18:52 wpwrak: at the moment, is there any driver/user mode tool that can help one work with UBB? 2011-03-03 18:52 kyak: i think someÂ Â libs in the werner misc can help.. 2011-03-03 18:52 or just try poke 2011-03-03 18:53 or blinkelights code 2011-03-03 18:53 so it can control CPU pins? 2011-03-03 18:53 kyak: well, depends on what you want to do. i already use the 8:10 card interface at many places (blinkenlights,Â Â avrdude/uart, avrdude/atusb-pgm, f326, atben). the i/o is open-coded, though. 2011-03-03 18:54 kyak: then there's the rmf12 (sp?) module and tuxbrain has some blinkenlights, too 2011-03-03 18:55 oh, that blinkenlights can be used to light up the keyboard :) 2011-03-03 18:55 kristianpaul: the lib isn't tested yet. it needs a kernel >= .36 (i know for sure that it doesn't work with kernels < .36, so some negative testing has been done ;-) 2011-03-03 18:55 wpwrak: oh ok 2011-03-03 18:55 kristianpaul: and yes, poke works, too ;-) 2011-03-03 18:57 kyak: i dunno if the gpio linux module can be ported for UBB 2011-03-03 18:58 I read about that once.. 2011-03-03 18:58 hey, now tuxbrain_away can sell accesories for UBB like the missing SPI to Ethernet board ;) 2011-03-03 18:59 kristianpaul: such a board would even make sense. the ribbon cable on UBB is flexible and not too "heavy". so there's less risk of accidently ripping it out or mechanically breaking something. 2011-03-03 19:01 kristianpaul: alas, since UBB doesn't really get locked inside the ben, it can be pulled out by accident. but i guess we just have to live with this. there's a little mechanism in the 8:10 card holder that supposedly holds the card, but it doesn't seem to work too well. okay, maybe it's also that my ubbs have a slightly incorrect form, due to machining tolerances. tuxbrain's should be more precise. 2011-03-03 19:04 I like this one http://ur1.ca/3dpu2 2011-03-03 19:05 linux module is already made for that 2011-03-03 19:05 But is not copyleft.. 2011-03-03 19:06 I can be home made.. but no, i need focus on gps-sdr thing for now 2011-03-03 19:08 kristianpaul: you can probably even make it smaller ;-) 2011-03-03 19:09 wpwrak: yup i want, and learn kicad in the mean time 2011-03-03 19:17 kristianpaul, you cant, the connector is as big as this 2011-03-03 19:24 methril_work: there's still a lot of pcb space behind the connector :) 2011-03-03 19:25 methril_work: also, big 100 mil headers are lame :) 2011-03-03 19:25 i don`t like the headers too 2011-03-03 19:26 wpwrak, but it`s not going to be sooo small 2011-03-03 19:26 methril_work: the chip exists in a 28qfn package, which is more compact than the ssop. so if you place a ribbon cable landing zone on the top, get rig of the header, and put all the electronics on the bottom, you should be able to make the whole thing a bit smaller 2011-03-03 19:27 methril_work: every micron counts ;-) 2011-03-03 19:27 wpwrak, ;) 2011-03-03 20:09 hmm, qfn seems to the best choice for DIY tiny stuff 2011-03-03 20:10 aye. qfn that doesn't depend on the center pad to be reliably soldered. 2011-03-03 20:11 http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/application_notes/xapp439.pdf 2011-03-03 20:11 Now i wonder if xilinx sells fpga in that package. let see 2011-03-03 20:13 they should have a few small cplds 2011-03-03 20:14 i guess at least 2011-03-03 20:23 wpwrak: try solder this at home http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail&name=544-1474-ND 2011-03-03 20:25