2011-02-27 00:17 kristianpaul: so you think the Ben might be shut down into a different (still zero power) state out of which it could start faster? 2011-02-27 00:19 wpwrak: hehe ;) 2011-02-27 00:20 wolfspraul: yes i do 2011-02-27 00:22 gusnao: hey there, you should update your ben to last firmware i think, you'll get surprized for all new apps 2011-02-27 00:25 kristianpaul, ok, thanks 2011-02-27 00:50 before try the Jay7 aproach of qemu, I would like to know what is wrong with this configure params and how to rid off of that checking I had follow the Canadian compilation instructions on that page http://www.airs.com/ian/configure/configure_6.html 2011-02-27 00:50 he configure output here http://pastebin.com/9EYG0eDB 2011-02-27 00:50 installed the this toolchan http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/JlimeToolchain and $PATH is correct 2011-02-27 00:51 goodn8 2011-02-27 01:05 zrafa: welcome back ! ;-) 2011-02-27 01:12 yeah 2011-02-27 01:13 wpwrak: I have a bit of irc thanks to you :) 2011-02-27 01:38 I have something I cannot really wrap my mind around, maybe I find help here :-) 2011-02-27 01:38 so we made 100 jtag-serial daughterboards 2011-02-27 01:38 sent out about 30 to milkymist one rc2 buyers, recalled/replaced some 2011-02-27 01:38 some sent here and there for development reasons 2011-02-27 01:38 now the stock is down to 62 2011-02-27 01:38 and sinking (with every rc2 sale) 2011-02-27 01:40 the milkymist one rc3 run will be 80 units 2011-02-27 01:40 let's say 75 are 100% good = sellable 2011-02-27 01:41 so I need to make another batch of jtag-serial boards 2011-02-27 01:41 but how many? 2011-02-27 01:41 we will fix a few bugs, so new pcb 2011-02-27 01:41 currently I am thinking I make 200 2011-02-27 01:42 that's because my confidence that they will work is high from the first run, this time even flashing and testing will be faster with only free tools 2011-02-27 01:42 we need some to go with rc3, and some more to go with xue or other future milkymist-like boards 2011-02-27 01:42 does anybody want to buy some of them alone? 2011-02-27 01:43 the additional cost of making more is small, compared to the one-time costs of pcb making, smt run, and general overhead of a run 2011-02-27 01:43 so I could also make 300 or more :-) 2011-02-27 01:43 but I need some sufficiently sane reasons for that other than 'there will be some magic use case for them later' 2011-02-27 01:48 kristianpaul: wow that mimiandeunice stuff is great! 2011-02-27 02:02 http://mimiandeunice.com/about/ 2011-02-27 02:02 she says it's licensed under cc-by-sa, but then she says "For commercial uses, I request you share money with me." 2011-02-27 02:04 I've seen this a number of times, typically such an additional 'request' is understood to be merely an option, but wanting to respect the author it does make me feel a bit strange. 2011-02-27 02:04 I guess the -nc license was not an option for her either. 2011-02-27 02:12 how does the MM JTAG/serial board compare with other JTAG boards 2011-02-27 02:34 no idea. it is tailor made for the m1 case, both in hardware and software 2011-02-27 02:35 of course we follow standards whereever possible, but afaik there weren't many attempts (if any) at making this a swiss-army-knife type of thing 2011-02-27 02:36 which is totally fine by me. I will not try to market it stand-alone either. but if someone here says "make another 50 for me", then that's easy to do in the upcoming run. 2011-02-27 02:37 if xue remains in dormant state, and we reboot the idea of a mobile minimilky board, that one will use the same connector as m1 (and thus the jtag-serial board) for sure 2011-02-27 02:47 wolfspraul what connector does it use? 2011-02-27 02:48 is xua the camera board? 2011-02-27 02:48 xue 2011-02-27 02:54 it has a usb mini-b connector on one side, to connect to the host computer (and export 2 usb interfaces, serial and jtag) 2011-02-27 02:54 on the other side, it has a 100mil 4-pin serial header, and 2*7 jtag header 2011-02-27 02:56 xue is the camera yes, but (I stand to be proven wrong), I'd say it's on life support right now, at least I don't see any action that makes me believe we will see a xue board or camera any time soon 2011-02-27 02:56 which means that once I worked down the list of my current manufacturing priorities, I will restart the idea of a mobile minimilky board from scratch 2011-02-27 02:56 my current manufacturing priorities are: 2011-02-27 02:57 1) milkymist one rc3 run (first work on improvements) 2011-02-27 02:58 2) another jtag-serial run to go with it (also including improvements) 2011-02-27 02:58 3) ben-wpan, both usb and 8:10 2011-02-27 02:58 want to get all those done asap 2011-02-27 02:59 and after that it's either xue, if it is closer to manufacturable state by then, or a mobile minimilky idea rebooted 2011-02-27 02:59 sounds like 6 to 9 months of effort calender time 2011-02-27 02:59 well let's see. we learn and can reuse more and more. 2011-02-27 03:00 is xue project fron Andres? 2011-02-27 03:00 yes 2011-02-27 03:03 but it's not in manufacturable state, and not getting closer the last 2 months 2011-02-27 03:03 so I first need to work down the current manufacturing stuff, then I'll get back to it 2011-02-27 03:04 btw, end of February is approaching and we need to finalize the 03-01 community news 2011-02-27 03:04 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2011-03-01 2011-02-27 03:06 from valentine ascii art to ubb to gps baseband work - good stuff but needs a lot of polishing to be publishable 2011-02-27 04:01 I want to list a few of the new ports that were added into the openwrt image last month. so far I have Emacs, GNU Octave, zgv, supertux, sokoban, qball 2011-02-27 04:02 any additions? 2011-02-27 04:02 ah, I also need to mention Xiangfu's 02-23 release... 2011-02-27 04:04 ok I will add MPlayer and flite to the list 2011-02-27 04:34 kristianpaul: do you have some sort of screenshot for Lua on Milkymist One? 2011-02-27 04:35 (I'm talking to myself, I know. hoping that people will read the backlog later...) 2011-02-27 05:01 answer: yes, he has a screenshot, and it's cc-by-sa licensed, and I updated the community news already 2011-02-27 05:02 can i change my keyboard in nn? 2011-02-27 05:02 i found the g key is not good as others 2011-02-27 05:03 XChat looks better than Smuxi 2011-02-27 05:08 cfy: no the keyboard is just one piece and individual keys cannot be exchanged. 2011-02-27 05:09 most likely if you feel that one key works less well than others, it's because of very small tolerances in where the plastic finger that pushes on the metal dome sits exactly, like not being centered. 2011-02-27 05:09 it may go away over time, or if you wiggle the key a bit 2011-02-27 05:12 ok I've made some progress on the community news 2011-02-27 05:12 what is still missing imo is something about fosdem, and more Milkymist news 2011-02-27 05:12 wolfspraul: can i change a whole keyboard? 2011-02-27 05:13 theoretically yes, but I don't think anybody has replacement keyboards in stock, and we haven't really made any excess replacement keyboards either 2011-02-27 05:13 there are a total of 3 parts 2011-02-27 05:13 first the PCB itself 2011-02-27 05:13 then above that, a 'metal dome mat' 2011-02-27 05:14 the metal dome mat is glued onto the pcb 2011-02-27 05:14 wolfspraul: oh.got it. 2011-02-27 05:14 sometimes if a key doesn't work very well, it may also be because that one metal dome over the 'g' is not in the best position for the underlying conductive area of the pcb 2011-02-27 05:14 wolfspraul: i change my way to press g,then i is easier to press.thank you . 2011-02-27 05:14 then above the metal dome mat is the keyboard, a plastic/metal structure that is made in one piece 2011-02-27 05:15 most of the time the kind of problem you report goes away over time 2011-02-27 05:15 oh 2011-02-27 05:15 it has to do with tiny tolerances 2011-02-27 05:15 we tried fixing some of these things on the spot, but that always made it worse 2011-02-27 05:15 whereas just waiting (and using) the Ben for a week made it go away :-) 2011-02-27 05:15 hehe:) 2011-02-27 05:15 there may also be tiny particles enclosed between the pcb and (glued) metal dome mat 2011-02-27 05:16 sometimes those particles move when you use the key (are pushed aside) 2011-02-27 05:16 theoretically you could start over, lift the keyboard, remove the glued metal dome mat 2011-02-27 05:16 but removing the glued metal dome mat will surely damage it to the extent that you need a new one to glue onto the pcb 2011-02-27 05:16 and there may be glue residue from the old one 2011-02-27 05:16 oh.got it 2011-02-27 05:16 and you need to clean both the pcb as well as the new metal dome mat so that it's actually better than before 2011-02-27 05:17 I suggest to just use the key for now, wiggle it a bit, and see whether it gets better. 2011-02-27 05:17 okay 2011-02-27 05:18 i think it's better now:) 2011-02-27 05:18 the problem is in centering or some obstacles (particles) between pcb, metal dome, and plastic finger that pushes the metal dome down onto the pcb, to make a contact 2011-02-27 05:18 i press g then display g. 2011-02-27 05:19 well thanks for reporting. keyboard problems are rare, but I do hear it once in a while. 2011-02-27 05:19 just hard to actually improve the keyboard, and not make it worse :-) 2011-02-27 05:19 :) 2011-02-27 05:20 next is a capacitive touch keyboard, I think :-) 2011-02-27 05:38 wolfspraul: (jtag) i think it's the number you need for MM1 runs, plus the extra sales, plus the quantity you feel comfortable stocking forever. the extra sales would be something like 10, if the openmoko debug board is any indication. (i don't have its sales details, but i heard that some were sold for non-openmoko use, but you didn't hear much about these) 2011-02-27 05:39 i wish 2011 was a leap year. that would increase the probability of getting wpan into the 2011-03-1 news ;) 2011-02-27 05:39 well, not having wpan there gives ubb more room :) 2011-02-27 05:47 I feel very comfortable stocking those little boards for several years :-) 2011-02-27 05:47 because I think Milkymist will develop slowly (and strongly), and eventually take off when we have the right set of features and demand. 2011-02-27 05:47 but on the other hand making 300 or even 500 now seems just excessive 2011-02-27 05:48 unless I overlooked something 2011-02-27 05:48 the 03-01 news is shaping up 2011-02-27 05:48 hopefully tuxbrain can add a little about fosdem, and a picture or two 2011-02-27 05:48 then I need to dig a bit more about milkymist, I'm sure there was more last month 2011-02-27 05:49 (this month) 2011-02-27 05:51 wpwrak: can you glance over it now? did I forget something? 2011-02-27 05:51 (it still needs a lot of editing, so the only point right now is to look for missing news) 2011-02-27 07:01 wolfspraul: I hope to fit with kexecboot in 03-01 too :) 2011-02-27 07:19 oh wow. it would help me more if people polished or edited the existing snippets, rather than trying to rush in something on the last day. 2011-02-27 07:19 but sure, if it's working then let's get it in. 2011-02-27 07:31 well.. I'm waiting recipe for OE 2011-02-27 07:31 I hope tonight or tomorrow 2011-02-27 07:31 I'll add note to page after 2011-02-27 07:37 Jay7: btw, what's the full name of your wife? I only say Irina now... 2011-02-27 07:37 Irina Bushmeleva 2011-02-27 07:37 ah great, thanks 2011-02-27 07:37 may you add link to blog too? 2011-02-27 07:37 of course, that's great! 2011-02-27 07:38 10x :) 2011-02-27 07:38 it's just details details details, takes hours to polish and edit the news page 2011-02-27 07:38 yeah.. 2011-02-27 07:38 I'm sorry for my ignorance, but what exactly is kexecboot and what will we be able to do once it is in Jlime? 2011-02-27 07:39 http://www.kexecboot.org/about:start 2011-02-27 07:40 is this answer ok? :) 2011-02-27 07:42 yes and no 2011-02-27 07:42 how do we plan to use it? 2011-02-27 07:48 easy selection of boot device/partition/kernel 2011-02-27 07:48 easy testing 2011-02-27 07:48 something like :) 2011-02-27 07:50 booting into a rescue/update kernel 2011-02-27 07:50 booting into windows 2011-02-27 07:50 (kidding) -) 2011-02-27 07:51 windows may be problem.. kexec can't run kernel32.dll ;) 2011-02-27 07:52 kyak: can you answer to ML wrt letter about RNDIS? 2011-02-27 07:53 well.. I should go 2011-02-27 07:53 the answer would be simple: RNDIS is broken in linux kernel 2011-02-27 07:53 it used to be OK is some versions, but then it's broken again 2011-02-27 07:56 wolfspraul: (lua screenshot) so far the only in the blog post, yesÂ Â cc-by-sa as all my blog/webpage content 2011-02-27 07:57 kristianpaul: do you know more Milkymist news? 2011-02-27 07:57 I think uclibc is still wip 2011-02-27 07:58 llvm was just an idea, no actions yet afaik 2011-02-27 07:58 llvm yes idea forÂ Â now 2011-02-27 07:58 oh I could mention that the bootup bug is fixed with diode+reset ic 2011-02-27 07:58 how about news in rtems, flickernoise, linux kernel? 2011-02-27 07:59 or in gps-sdr? (I have your picture already, so maybe I make a line saying that you switched over from SIE to m1) 2011-02-27 07:59 is not full swich yet 2011-02-27 07:59 (software and hdl part missing) 2011-02-27 08:00 Is too early to said that i think 2011-02-27 08:01 (ulibc) mwalle said is just there http://git.serverraum.org/?p=mw/uclibc-lm32.git;a=summary 2011-02-27 08:01 So i think it deserver a news space 2011-02-27 08:01 yes but it just got dropped there, in the middle of a lot of things if I understand correctly, because lars asked for it 2011-02-27 08:02 I don't want to create fake news, so until I understand what the actual news/results are, I wait a bit 2011-02-27 08:02 dropped yes.. 2011-02-27 08:02 03-01 is full already, maybe I add that to the 04-1 draft 2011-02-27 08:02 wolfspraul: (mimiandeunice) I just wanted to read the comic :') 2011-02-27 08:02 but was there anything that really got completed/finished in m1 land, that you are aware of? 2011-02-27 08:02 I need to go over the milkymist-devel list later... 2011-02-27 08:02 gotta run, bbiab 2011-02-27 08:04 okk 2011-02-27 08:07 wolfspraul: (jtag-serial board) may be an addon for debugging nanonote? 2011-02-27 08:08 Sure is usefull haveÂ Â this kind of board, but not sure if we have enought boards that required that feature... 2011-02-27 08:11 hey, nice, you already asked nina for the comercial doubt :) 2011-02-27 08:14 zzz 2011-02-27 08:36 wolfspraul: http://www.tuxbrain.com/en/content/bruselas-europes-capital takae whatever you want all under ccbysa. If not I will try to do something tomorrow with the news 2011-02-27 09:29 Jay7: native-sdk-image for qemumachine in progress 2011-02-27 09:29 my last chance 2011-02-27 09:31 larsc: trying to built-in sound modules in kernel - so far so good. The only problem is that kmod-sound-core package gets selected (by AUDIO_SUPPORT) and built in any case. Therefore it tries to load the already compiled-in modules during boot. 2011-02-27 09:31 It's not a big problem, but doesn't look very clean in dmesg 2011-02-27 09:32 larsc: do you have an idea what could be done to build these kmod-sound-* as openwrt modules (i.e. not to include it in rootfs)? 2011-02-27 09:35 kyak: remove the autoselect 2011-02-27 09:37 autoselect, huh? 2011-02-27 09:43 of the kmod-sound-core by AUDIO_SUPPORT 2011-02-27 09:44 or a add a depends on @!TARGET_xburst_nanonote 2011-02-27 09:44 i'm looking at target/linux/xburst/qi_lb60/target.mk 2011-02-27 09:44 it has DEFAULT_PACKAGES 2011-02-27 09:44 listing these sound modules 2011-02-27 09:44 i'll try to remove it now 2011-02-27 09:44 these should be removed, if sound support is built-in 2011-02-27 09:45 i hope this would be enough 2011-02-27 09:52 hmmm i wonder what needs to be done for the changes in target/linux/xburst/modules.mk to be seen by menuconfig.. 2011-02-27 09:57 touch package/kernel/Makefile 2011-02-27 10:26 larsc: alsa-lib selects kmod-sound-core, too -\ 2011-02-27 10:27 seems we can't disable it just on our side, some upstream work is required, too 2011-02-27 10:27 tuxbrain_away: thanks that's a good start. I will do some more editing and polishing tonight or tomorrow. 2011-02-27 10:27 it's going to be a nice news update 2011-02-27 10:28 I only wish I had more time to translate what a lot of this tech stuff means for the end user. 2011-02-27 10:28 it's unfortunate that this is not really happening now, need to do more of that later... 2011-02-27 10:51 larsc: so, if i add e.g. @!TARGET_xburst_qi_lb6 to kmod-sound-core DEPENDS, alsa-lib gets deselected, too 2011-02-27 10:51 *lb60 2011-02-27 10:53 and i think that even if alsa-lib will not autoselect kmod-sound-core, it will not be possible to build kmod-sound-core as "=m" (to provide it with other kmod's in packages) 2011-02-27 10:57 well, if sound support is built-in kmod-sound-* shouldn't be built at all 2011-02-27 10:57 not even as a separate package, right? 2011-02-27 10:57 yes 2011-02-27 10:58 ok, i agree with that 2011-02-27 10:58 that won't work. something can't be built-in and a module at the same time 2011-02-27 10:59 i will try to make a patch for alsa-lib that would disable the kmod-sound-core dependency for TARGET_xburst_qi_lb60. I hope it can be accepted by upstream 2011-02-27 10:59 there could also be some other packages that have such dependency 2011-02-27 11:01 do you think it is the way to go? 2011-02-27 11:02 larsc: what's the difference between CONFIG_DEFAULT_kmod* and CONFIG_PACKAGE_kmod* ? 2011-02-27 11:03 now CONFIG_PACKAGE_kmod-sound are not autoselected, but CONFIG_DEFAULT_kmod-sound* are autoselected.. 2011-02-27 11:03 CONFIG_DEFAULT_packge gets defined if the package is the default package list 2011-02-27 11:04 hm... i did remove those from DEFAULT_PACKAGES 2011-02-27 11:05 you probably need to refresh the config somehow 2011-02-27 11:08 hm okay.. it's somewhere else. i just rm -rf .config .config.old && make menuconfig, selected our target and saved the config.. These are still in default pacakges 2011-02-27 11:17 ok, removing tmp/ did help 2011-02-27 11:17 Default-Packages were recorded there in tmp/.targetinfo 2011-02-27 11:21 larsc: how i can check for TARGET_xburst_qi_lb60 in alsa-lib's Makefile? 2011-02-27 11:22 wolfspraul: (ubb) ah, that's february news indeed. how long those barely three weeks felt ;-) maybe put the two UBB entries next to each other ? (or merge if having two separate entries was an accident) 2011-02-27 11:24 wolfspraul: if non-accident, maybe split the "what is UBB" information (i.e. things from my mail and the wiki page) from UBB production (preorders/shop link). the latter should probably also mention (explicitly) that tuxbrain took the decision to produce the boards and that they're being made right now. 2011-02-27 11:24 (trying to convert rms) nice caption ! ;-) 2011-02-27 11:27 agree on your ubb feedback 2011-02-27 11:27 it's still just a meshup right now 2011-02-27 11:27 yes, separating it into several lines is better 2011-02-27 11:27 thanks for your feedback! 2011-02-27 11:32 kyak: i don't think that is a good idea. generally i think adding target specific options to a generic package is not a good idea 2011-02-27 11:32 kyak: so it's unlikley for that change to go upstream 2011-02-27 11:33 but you could have it as a local hack in the qi-hw repos 2011-02-27 11:33 kyak: the syntax would be +@TARGET_xburst_qi_lb60:kmod-sound-core 2011-02-27 11:33 +@!TARGET_xburst_qi_lb60:kmod-sound-core 2011-02-27 11:33 wolfspraul: do you want to include lars' boot time enhancement ? 2011-02-27 11:35 lars' and davids 2011-02-27 11:35 sure why not, but I will first edit/polish all the snippets I have there now. 2011-02-27 11:36 unfortunately only very few people are helping with that community news WIKI page :-) 2011-02-27 11:36 I am not happy with the wording of many of those snippets, I would like to spend more time to explain/translate what it MEANS, rather than just listing accomplishments. 2011-02-27 11:36 dvdk: sorry, lars and david's :) 2011-02-27 11:36 wolfspraul: yeah, the wording needs a little more flesh 2011-02-27 11:37 but in order to describe what it means, I first need to mentally zoom out and actually think about what it means, if anything :-) 2011-02-27 11:38 also I want to throw in a snippet about osmocom progress on that mtk 6235 phone, at least I had the plan 2011-02-27 11:38 but then they are not yet talking to the 6140 tranceiver IC, and who knows when/if they will. so it's just reverse engineering a few digital peripherals. not sure whether I should mention it or not. 2011-02-27 11:39 wolfspraul: ah, there's more from me: the UART board (proof of concept stage, but i think sufficient as an inspiration), announced here http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-February/007129.html 2011-02-27 11:39 with further details here http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-February/007132.html 2011-02-27 11:39 great, will add 2011-02-27 11:40 wolfspraul: and the avrdude port to nanonote+8:10 (currently with two pin assignment schemes, the UART and the atusb-pgm adapter), also mentioned in http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-February/007129.html 2011-02-27 11:41 yes, although I am hardly capable of writing one consistant sentence about what this 'avrdude' actually does 2011-02-27 11:41 I can just guess. 'reflashing an Arduino'? 2011-02-27 11:41 ;-))) 2011-02-27 11:41 all Arduinos? or just some models? 2011-02-27 11:41 no idea 2011-02-27 11:42 it's a utility to read/write/verify flash/eeprom/fuses of AVR chips. pretty much all of them, i think. 2011-02-27 11:42 writing good news is hard, it's a mix of technical correctness, translated to be easily understandable, correctly referenced facts (urls), etc. 2011-02-27 11:42 things like the atmega attiny and so on. includes the arduino universe, of course. 2011-02-27 11:42 there you go. where is the sentence? 2011-02-27 11:42 "Ben NanoNote - now with AVRDUDE" (whatever that means) :-) 2011-02-27 11:43 man avrdude saysÂ Â avrdude -- driver program for ``simple'' Atmel AVR MCU programmer 2011-02-27 11:43 "Avrdude is a program for downloading code and data to Atmel AVR microcontrollers." 2011-02-27 11:43 that one doesn't sound too bad 2011-02-27 11:43 yes 2011-02-27 11:43 and that avrdude is now running on the Ben? 2011-02-27 11:43 is it 100% free software? 2011-02-27 11:43 is it available in Jlime or OpenWrt? 2011-02-27 11:44 lemme check the license ... GPLv2+ 2011-02-27 11:45 i have compile instructions for jlime. http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-blinkenlights/source/tree/master/uart/avrdude/README 2011-02-27 11:46 the main contribution is not the cross-compilation, which is quite trivial, but the driver for the nanonote's 8:10 gpios 2011-02-27 11:47 i haven't tried building it for openwrt yet. not sure if autocrap is happy with the "light" host environment provided by openwrt. let's try ... 2011-02-27 11:49 ah yes, looks good 2011-02-27 11:50 let's see if it actually works .. 2011-02-27 12:08 works like a charm :) now,let's update the readme ... 2011-02-27 12:12 [commit] Werner Almesberger: uart/avrdude/README: updated build instructions and added OpenWRT http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/3d3bf15 2011-02-27 12:13 there we are 2011-02-27 12:14 wolfspraul: tuxbrain is working on a more comprehensive AVR development environment on the ben, with gcc running there natively and such (and of course avrdude) 2011-02-27 12:17 amazing. february was such a busy month, yet we're still 3 kB (compressed) short of the january list traffic 2011-02-27 12:24 larsc: thanks for your hints! i'm doing final tests now.. 2011-02-27 12:26 (traffic) would be interesting to have list traffic and irc traffic statistics. maybe what's happening is a shift from the list to irc 2011-02-27 12:28 i always said that IRC > ML :) 2011-02-27 12:29 wpwrak: now count the words in mailing lists, it would be much less :) 2011-02-27 12:29 !help 2011-02-27 12:29 man I'm glad werner beat me. I better bite my tongue. 2011-02-27 12:30 I did a lot of bla bla talking the last few days, some people may think I'm bored. 2011-02-27 12:30 better get some work done :-) 2011-02-27 12:30 kyak: how to show the help of this bot? 2011-02-27 12:36 panda|x201: what is your name in QQ group? 2011-02-27 12:36 is just looking over http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2011-03-01 2011-02-27 12:37 panda|x201: you are a Hardware Engineer or Software Engineer? 2011-02-27 12:37 cool phote with Xiangfu and RMS :) 2011-02-27 12:37 s/phote/photo 2011-02-27 12:37 wolfspraul: about the sw list: 2011-02-27 12:37 wolfspraul: (statistics) i'll be afk most of today (having an asado :), so you have a chance to catch up ;-) 2011-02-27 12:37 sokoban is actually just Gforth running the sokoban.fs example that was included for a few months already (just without startup icon) 2011-02-27 12:38 wolfspraul: other new software is Brainless, Gnuplot, Plplot 2011-02-27 12:40 wolfspraul: ah, don't you want to mention yi's applications page update ? http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-February/007074.html 2011-02-27 12:48 xiangfu: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_Setup#eggdrop , scroll down to "Public commands" 2011-02-27 12:48 do you think it should respond to the !help? 2011-02-27 12:49 kyak: that will be great.Â Â I saw dvdk input one. :) 2011-02-27 12:50 ok I will edit more tomorrow 2011-02-27 12:50 some were already mentioned in 02-01, I don't want to mention the same app twice 2011-02-27 12:50 yeah, i saw people doing that, too.. i'll do, isn't hard 2011-02-27 12:51 i wish we had a format where it's easier to have an overview of things. maybe with one wide column for the text and a column on the left for a picture or two. then end each section with the remaining pictures. would require pictures to have relatively small thumbnails (maybe 300x200 pixels) to look right, and would need some means for making it easy for the reader to connect text with then spacially disjoint pictures 2011-02-27 12:53 wolfspraul: well Brainless is pretty new, the others packages have been mentioned before (but weren't part of the official image back then). 2011-02-27 12:53 i think it's good to have all the key information on one page, so i like this better than microscopic thumbnails. but it still looks a bit disorderly. well, one could experiment with the material from existing news and see if a nicer layout is possible 2011-02-27 12:54 btw xiangfu, were was the phote with RMS shot?Â Â just wondering. 2011-02-27 12:54 s/phote/photo 2011-02-27 12:55 dvdk: you mean where?Â Â Beijing.: http://citypw.blogspot.com/2009/10/trip-of-beijing-free-software-seminars.html 2011-02-27 12:57 and, did you make RMS buy a nanonote? 2011-02-27 13:11 dvdk: no. 2011-02-27 13:14 xiangfu, oh, I'm not in your QQ group yet 2011-02-27 13:14 xiangfu, I rarely use QQ for years 2011-02-27 13:14 xiangfu, mostly, I'm a software engineer 2011-02-27 13:15 xiangfu, I have face to face meet with Wolfgang last year and bought Ben from him directly 2011-02-27 13:15 panda|x201: ahh! 2011-02-27 13:15 did you also borrow a wifi card from me? 2011-02-27 13:15 I lost track of some of them :-) 2011-02-27 13:16 woakas, yes, I'm the guy 2011-02-27 13:16 wolfspraul, I still using your wifi card on my demo device 2011-02-27 13:16 oh that's good to hear - keep it then 2011-02-27 13:16 wolfspraul, also without paying your cash yet 2011-02-27 13:16 you paid for the NanoNote I think, and the wifi card is loaned 2011-02-27 13:16 all fine 2011-02-27 13:17 great to see that you are still around, and the Ben is still being used 2011-02-27 13:17 very good! 2011-02-27 13:17 as you can see software is improving :-) 2011-02-27 13:17 wolfspraul, yeah, of course, very positive progress 2011-02-27 13:17 wolfspraul, also, I've promoted this device with most of the guys I met with 2011-02-27 13:18 wolfspraul, it's one of my favourite gadget now 2011-02-27 13:18 nice 2011-02-27 13:18 how about Milkymist One? :-) can I upsell you to Milkymist One? 2011-02-27 13:18 he he 2011-02-27 13:18 we should get that on video, for promotion ;-) 2011-02-27 13:21 xiangfu: try to sell him one next time you meet.Â Â and tell him that it runs GNU Emacs :) 2011-02-27 13:22 but maybe RMS won't buy it unless it's named GNU Nanonote 2011-02-27 13:22 wolfspraul, oops, what is Milkmist One? 2011-02-27 13:23 wolfspraul, yes, I can buy your Milkymist One to show my royalty for qi :-) 2011-02-27 13:23 dvdk: :) 2011-02-27 13:23 btw there's more truth in it than you might think. 2011-02-27 13:23 dvdk: GNU/Nanonote ? 2011-02-27 13:24 since it's hardware, shouldn't it have horns then, too ? 2011-02-27 13:24 panda|x201: read a bit on milkymist.org first, if you have a little time 2011-02-27 13:24 last time i mentioned the NN emacs portÂ Â on the emacs-devel mailinglist, RMS contacted me off-list and asked why openwrt weren't part of the GNU project. 2011-02-27 13:24 maybe something for the future: gnu-horn shaped wireless antennas, maybe like the olpc's foldable "ears" 2011-02-27 13:24 panda|x201: it's a very different product from Ben NanoNote, but in the long run they belong together 2011-02-27 13:24 "do these people think their freedom is for the birds" or something. 2011-02-27 13:25 as a 'cool toy', I'm sure Milkymist One will qualify for that category in a few months, if it's not even in there already 2011-02-27 13:25 xiangfu: --^ 2011-02-27 13:25 kyak: thanks 2011-02-27 13:26 np :) 2011-02-27 13:26 panda|x201: it's more challenging that Ben NanoNote too, but it does take things to a new level in some important areas. check it out, let me know what you think. 2011-02-27 13:26 wolfspraul, alright, thanks for the introduction, I'm reading your wiki now http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One 2011-02-27 13:26 that's mostly just the production side 2011-02-27 13:27 the homepage of the project is milkymist.org 2011-02-27 13:27 OK, step forward ... 2011-02-27 13:28 dvdk: how did you reply RMS's email ? 2011-02-27 13:31 xiangfu: told him that it's mosty gnu software anyways, and he shouldn't be so conceerned about direct affiliation w/ the GNU project 2011-02-27 13:31 wolfspraul, nah, I'm not an artist like VJ and DJ, so does milkymist still fit me then? 2011-02-27 13:32 not sure :-) you can look at it in many ways 2011-02-27 13:32 I get that kind of reaction a lot though "I'm not a DJ/VJ, it's not for me" 2011-02-27 13:32 xiangfu: then i told him that i'm a little dissatisfied with the GPL license in the open source hardware field.Â Â but he didn't really respond to this. 2011-02-27 13:33 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Sigemm1.jpg 2011-02-27 13:34 panda|x201: kristian paul is working on a GPS baseband for Milkymist (One) 2011-02-27 13:34 we had plans to work on a milkymist-based camera, though that project is dormant right now (to be resurrected) 2011-02-27 13:34 since it's a free IC design, there are many possibilities once we get the foundation right 2011-02-27 13:34 dvdk: why did you start talking to rms in the first place? 2011-02-27 13:36 kyak: he started the offlist conversation. 2011-02-27 13:37 hm, i might have missed the e-mail from him :) 2011-02-27 13:37 panda|x201: were you working on robotics stuff? (I forgot...) 2011-02-27 13:37 we need to explain better why milkymist one is interesting to a non-dj/non-vj 2011-02-27 13:38 wolfspraul, yeah, we have a robotics studio locally in Beijing, www.ucrobotics.com 2011-02-27 13:39 ok, I gotta go. great that we reconnected, let's continue soon... 2011-02-27 13:39 and very nice to hear the Ben (and wifi) are still alive and with you :-) 2011-02-27 13:39 wolfspraul, yeah, me too :-) 2011-02-27 13:42 wolfspraul: (non-vj) maybe mention LHDL prominently there, too. play with a big fpga and *** Free and Open Synthesis ***\footnote{\fontsize=5pt in progress) ;-)} 2011-02-27 13:43 llhdl 2011-02-27 13:46 gaah. i knew i'd get the darn acronym wrong ! 2011-02-27 13:46 low-level hardware description language ;) 2011-02-27 13:47 yeah yeah. it will have left my memory by the next time i need it, i'm sure of that ... 2011-02-27 13:54 I need assistance with debian on my nanonote. I can't get the sd card to show up and mmcblk0p1 isn't in /dev 2011-02-27 13:58 confusedpear: what is the "dmesg" when you insert the sd-card? what is your kernel version? where you download the kernel? 2011-02-27 13:58 is the dmsg the text that ordinarily pops up when you put it in or do i need to look at with something? 2011-02-27 14:00 confusedpear: no. run "dmsg > dmsg.log" 2011-02-27 14:00 confusedpear: paster the log somewhere? like : http://pastebin.ca/new.php 2011-02-27 14:01 dmsg command not found? 2011-02-27 14:01 confusedpear: sorry. 'dmesg' 2011-02-27 14:04 jay7 there is any howto on how to run the qemu mips image I'm generating (50% now) 2011-02-27 14:05 i got the lenny kernel from pyneo, if i remember correctly though it says it's sid/squeeze 2011-02-27 14:08 confusedpear: ok.it's should works fine with sd card. soÂ Â the 'dmesg' will help a little. 2011-02-27 14:09 I don't have much experience and atm i am trying to find the best way to transfer it to the machine i am on right now 2011-02-27 14:10 confusedpear: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ethernet_over_USB 2011-02-27 14:10 confusedpear: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ethernet_over_USB#Transfer_files 2011-02-27 14:20 if the nanonote is recognised in lsusb as device 007 does that mean that i should put usb(0?)07 forÂ Â ifconfig? 2011-02-27 14:21 confusedpear: no. 2011-02-27 14:21 so usb0 is fine? 2011-02-27 14:21 yes. 2011-02-27 14:30 I'm running ubuntu right now, I believe i've successfully pinged the nanonote but it is giving me permission denied on the echo command in the nat config section 2011-02-27 14:31 confusedpear: try 'sudo ....' 2011-02-27 14:31 I assume an echo isn't that important what does that command do? 2011-02-27 14:31 I did 2011-02-27 14:32 it references the folder when it gives me permission denied 2011-02-27 14:32