2011-02-25 01:40 wolfspraul: i think i may have things ready for shipping my monday. now, there's one problem: it seems that there's a customs restriction in argentina for non-commercial export of one shipment per person and month. 2011-02-25 01:41 wolfspraul: what are the options ? shall i try to circumvent this ? just send everything to adam and he'll forward one set each to roh and richard ? other ? 2011-02-25 01:43 wpwrak: how is this being enforced? 2011-02-25 01:43 are you reading too many regulations again? 2011-02-25 01:44 why 'export'? can't you send out some gifts to some of your friends? 2011-02-25 01:44 an Argentine is only allowed to send one gift per month to his many friends in foreign countries? 2011-02-25 01:45 wolfspraul: for sending things, they usually want a document number. so they could match numbers. 2011-02-25 01:46 document number? you can send those boards as regular letters, no? 2011-02-25 01:46 wolfspraul: that's basically what the regulations say, yes. that's from the same page that's been a very reliable guide for what causes problems and what doesn't in the past 2011-02-25 01:46 'could match' - you are reading too many regulations again, don't you? :-) 2011-02-25 01:46 you should read what the German customs pages say about taking a video camera to an international vacation trip 2011-02-25 01:47 good thing that millions of Germans each year blatantly ignore this nonsense 2011-02-25 01:47 they want you to declare the video camera with serial number etc in advance (need proof of purchase etc). then you get a re-entry permit. 2011-02-25 01:47 otherwise when you come back your video camera may be taxed as import. 2011-02-25 01:47 ha ha 2011-02-25 01:47 wolfspraul: not sure what happens if i send things undeclared. could get confiscated. customs have a 50% hit rate for finding cheques among regular mail, so i wouldn't count on them easily overlooking things 2011-02-25 01:48 i guess every once in a while, someone does get bothered this way :) 2011-02-25 01:48 well I cannot tell you how crazy Argentine customs or mail handling is. 2011-02-25 01:49 there are a lot of regulations that have no let's say 'match' in reality :-) 2011-02-25 01:49 they are just there to justify the jobs of the people that are twiddling their thumbs every day, but can claim to be the guarantors of stability, or whatever 2011-02-25 01:49 cant you send them as 'nonfunctional prototypes, examples' or so? 2011-02-25 01:49 but here it's also a big difference between the things you carry with you as a traveler and the things you send by mail. with the latter, they have all the time in the world to search for something they can use. 2011-02-25 01:49 I'd say relax. you need to try. 2011-02-25 01:49 if you are so paranoid, send some broken ones as test letters first. 2011-02-25 01:50 roh: i'd send them as "samples without commercial value" 2011-02-25 01:50 the test is cheaper than a long discussion here. 2011-02-25 01:50 why can't this just be a birthday card? 2011-02-25 01:50 with some electronic attachment 2011-02-25 01:50 you can buy them in every stationery in the whole world 2011-02-25 01:51 buy some birthday cards, and personalize them a little 2011-02-25 01:51 attach the boards on them 2011-02-25 01:51 it's a bit thick for a birthday card :) the programmer boards have protruding contacts that need to be protected. so the whole things is about 1 cm thick. 2011-02-25 01:52 argentina is not north korea. if one can trust the news just a little. 2011-02-25 01:52 I don't know, you have to decide. 2011-02-25 01:52 it sounds like you are reading too many regulations, and thinking too much. :-) 2011-02-25 01:53 wpwrak: roh should tell you when he orders 10 whatever in china, they take the time to ship as 10 separate letters, and add a hand-written note into each one so it passes German customs as a 'gift' 2011-02-25 01:54 call that CUSTOMER SERVICE! 2011-02-25 01:54 well, your choice. i'll have four sets of boards: 4 x (1 x atusb, 1 x atben, 1 x (atusb-pgm + ubb)). you tell me how and where i shall send them. the rest is up to fate :-) 2011-02-25 01:54 wolfspraul: hrhr 2011-02-25 01:54 I have been in argentina twice, for a few days each. 2011-02-25 01:54 true. a friend of mine ordered sdcards and they came tesa-stripped to greeting cards 2011-02-25 01:54 sure 2011-02-25 01:54 maybe I live in China too long 2011-02-25 01:54 roh: nice :) 2011-02-25 01:55 i am also so glad my package to taiwan went through 2011-02-25 01:55 the attitude here is 'just get the shit done and the money paid' (money first). talk and especially paper is meaningless. 2011-02-25 01:55 the Chinese seem to be quite successful with that economically, if the rest of the world has time and money for paperwork - fine. 2011-02-25 01:56 welll.. in the end china seems to work more on the 'pragmatic' side of things 2011-02-25 01:56 roh: yes it went well. 2011-02-25 01:56 shipping choices i know are: regular mail (not sure if only air mail overseas or also surface mail), EMS, and FedEx, DHL, UPS, TNT 2011-02-25 01:56 also.. in the end the country can act like a supernational company if neccessary.. that for sure helps move things 2011-02-25 01:57 I'd say regular mail, tape into a birthday greeting card. try with broken boards first. 2011-02-25 01:57 I go bottom up - test the cheapest most underground way first :-) 2011-02-25 01:57 we dont have emx here. but the last 4 + dpd and stuff like hermes and gls 2011-02-25 01:57 at the top end we have fedex 2011-02-25 01:57 total overkill 2011-02-25 01:57 what do i do with the atusb-pgm adapters ? 2011-02-25 01:57 fedex will help you overwhelm whatever customs idiot is in the way with so much paper and numbers that they will just let it pass :-) 2011-02-25 01:58 ddos a hole into the customs firewall ;) 2011-02-25 01:58 here's a picture: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atusb-pgm-20110203.jpg 2011-02-25 01:58 roh: do you know the German rules about 'video cameras' 2011-02-25 01:58 it's really hilarious 2011-02-25 01:58 you are supposed to get this 're-rentry permit' in advance 2011-02-25 01:59 (video cameras) probably the same for laptops and such 2011-02-25 01:59 every country has this 2011-02-25 01:59 if the 20+ million Germans leaving Germany each year would actually do this, the offices you are supposed to go to in person (!) to show your 're-entry equipment' would be flooded with lines several miles long. 2011-02-25 01:59 every smartphone would need to be registered 2011-02-25 01:59 only a government employee has his brains reduced to the point that he doesn't have to laugh at this. well, they make their money that way, so it has to be taken seriously :-) 2011-02-25 02:00 wolfspraul: the difference between germany and argentina is that here, you have those offices with lines that go around several blocks ... 2011-02-25 02:00 maybe in another 20 years in a big 'reform' those regulations are abolished. 2011-02-25 02:01 wolfspraul: dunno. special import tax? 2011-02-25 02:01 when you enter Germany with a video camera, you may have bought it abroad. 2011-02-25 02:01 any tech equipment 2011-02-25 02:02 the official way to proove that you had it before is that before your trip, you go to some office, put the stuff on the table, together with purchase receipts 2011-02-25 02:02 muahaha 2011-02-25 02:02 then you get some form that will allow you to 're-enter' Germany with that same (serial-number) equipment tax-free 2011-02-25 02:02 i know people like harald and others who travel with like 10 phones and equipment like 19" servers in hardcase trolleys... 2011-02-25 02:02 oh sure 2011-02-25 02:03 but a government employee won't quit his job because his task has been 100% obsoleted 2011-02-25 02:03 just clean the crap and make sure you can make up a good story and dont have forbidden stuff in there 2011-02-25 02:03 worst case he goes to the office every day reading the newspaper or surfing the web 2011-02-25 02:03 wolfspraul: they do. 2011-02-25 02:03 but not only in such jobs. all the 'normal office workers' do 2011-02-25 02:03 when a shipment via mail arrives, and they think they want a look or it's too valuable to just let the postman collect the fees, they send you a card inviting you to come to the customs office. there, you pull a number from a roll, then wait in a crowded room for about 1 h until it's your turn. then they take your card, let you pay whatever it due for storage, have you show your document and sign, and then send you to the next room. th 2011-02-25 02:04 ok we should be nice to them :-) 2011-02-25 02:04 ere, you can sit (usually). over a speaker, the shipment numbers are read. no display, so you have to pay attention. when your is announced, after another hour or so, you can proceed inside to the customs desks. 2011-02-25 02:04 70% of your time you need to be there and waste time to get payed. so one does it. work seems only to be 30% or less 2011-02-25 02:05 there, they have a quick look at it, give you a form, with which you go to a bank branch, pay the duties in cash, then come back and retrieve your parcel. that's the level of efficiency you have to expect from argentine bureaucracy. 2011-02-25 02:05 wpwrak: sounds like germany in totally unoptimized 2011-02-25 02:06 here the cost-pressure of privatisation killed lots of the bloat. now less people need to work too much and do the same or worse service than before and earn less at it. 2011-02-25 02:07 also i wouldnt worry too much about the argentinian customs. i worry about german customs. packages from south america 2011-02-25 02:07 wolfspraul: atusb-pgm is about 7 mm thick. atusb, with its usb connector, about 6 mm. so, greeting cards ? 2011-02-25 02:08 regular mail may be treated harshly in some sorting machines, like rolling around a curve. maybe it got better now. 2011-02-25 02:08 isnt there something, some goods, cheap,Â Â easy to export, something typical argentinian? 2011-02-25 02:08 if I would live in Argentina, I would test this type of things with broken/fake stuff. 2011-02-25 02:08 roh: meat ;-) 2011-02-25 02:09 hm. difficult at customs. 'not dead enough yet' 2011-02-25 02:09 wolfspraul: we can do that. will delay things even further, of course 2011-02-25 02:10 i would say 'wickel es in ein schnitzel' .. but the time it takes to travel and eu customs on bio-stuff... naaah 2011-02-25 02:10 roh: wrap it in smelly socks ? ;-) 2011-02-25 02:11 roh: actually, they require a certificate of sterilization or such for clothes 2011-02-25 02:11 roh: well, except for obviouslyÂ Â new ones 2011-02-25 02:11 Werner in the regulation jungle 2011-02-25 02:11 it's funny how much text people can write 2011-02-25 02:12 as someone who can type > 100 words / minute I sympathize with them 2011-02-25 02:12 wolfspraul: true. what a gigantic waste of time 2011-02-25 02:12 roh: you also get stopped at some province borders for insecticide treatment (they just spray your entire car. of course, you have to pay for that service.) 2011-02-25 02:12 yummy 2011-02-25 02:14 hm. 3:12 am.. and -8Â°C again 2011-02-25 02:15 feels like -13.2Â°C ... great. thats less unfriendly than yesterday 2011-02-25 02:15 yeah, spring approaching in germany ;) 2011-02-25 02:15 *gnnh* 2011-02-25 02:16 this winter felt like being in siberia and not europe... 2011-02-25 02:16 its the same in berlin every year as far as i can remember 2011-02-25 02:16 been here 10 years with some interruptions now 2011-02-25 02:20 ok so we have 3 recipients: roh, richard, adam 2011-02-25 02:21 yup 2011-02-25 02:21 hm. not sure.. seems the mailserver stayed in one piece 2011-02-25 02:21 (moko) 2011-02-25 02:29 roh: still connection refused 2011-02-25 02:30 wpwrak: i know. still working on it. cant do a full backup of it due to -enospace 2011-02-25 02:31 i wish we could refurbish the setup to new boxes costing the same 2011-02-25 02:31 wpwrak: i just learned that only the host machine is nullrouted. the service hosts they let online 2011-02-25 02:31 i cant even ssh to chandra. i am tunneling through agni 2011-02-25 02:33 wpwrak: tough call. 2011-02-25 02:37 I would probably send as regular letter, maybe really put a birthday card around it (even a self made one, just fold a thick cardboard) 2011-02-25 02:38 but I have never done it before myself, and I'm hesitating to do anything I haven't tested :-) 2011-02-25 02:38 maybe there are floods of fake shipments with sloppy 'happy birthday' notes jotted down somewhere already, and 'happy birthday' is a good way to make someone stop the letter? don't know 2011-02-25 02:39 wolfspraul: chances are that people try all sorts of things, yes. your "try to beat the system wherever you can" attitude is rather common in argentina :) 2011-02-25 02:40 it may still be better than trying to comply with obsolete regulations 2011-02-25 02:40 filling out lost of forms and in the end making a formal (!) mistake in that approach 2011-02-25 02:41 if you say 'yes' in field A.23, you have to supply additional form E-10 2011-02-25 02:41 and becuse E-10 is missing, shipment is held 2011-02-25 02:43 or best - if H.23-4 on page 17 is left empty, you need to supply additional ... 2011-02-25 02:43 "hell yeah, I overlooked H.23-4 on p. 17" 2011-02-25 02:45 do you know someone who is mailing out a lot of stuff? 2011-02-25 02:45 i think it's just the pro forma invoice plus somehow avoiding the 1 shipment per personmonth trap 2011-02-25 02:45 that souds like very hard/never enforced 2011-02-25 02:45 that's just on paper to that people cannot build a big business without registering (and paying taxes) at some point 2011-02-25 02:45 virtual threat 2011-02-25 02:46 (ship a lot) no, not really 2011-02-25 02:46 wpwrak: care to try mail? 2011-02-25 02:47 sita is not up yet. so no lists and incoming mail. but the imap should do. 2011-02-25 02:48 a lot of these regulations are written for legal reasons 2011-02-25 02:48 you have a big legal system, and it needs to be legally tight otherwise lawyers have too much upside for their clients 2011-02-25 02:48 so some regulation A is only written as the logical counterpart of regulation B 2011-02-25 02:48 A is not actually enforceable, but it can be pulled out when needed 2011-02-25 02:49 so let's say you run a big shipping business shipping thousands of whatever per month. after 4 years some auditor finds you and wants more taxes - he can pull out this regulation. 2011-02-25 02:49 roh: imap works ! thanks ! now i just need the new mails to flow in, too :) 2011-02-25 02:49 in my experience, if you really read regulatory texts directly, 90% or more of the stuff in there is there to set a certain legal baseline 2011-02-25 02:49 not because this is enforced in reality every single day 2011-02-25 02:50 you need to keep that in mind when you are trying to send 3 little pieces of nearly nothing to 3 friends 2011-02-25 02:50 the regulation was never written with that kind of target in mind, guaranteed. Argentina is not that crazy. 2011-02-25 02:51 wpwrak: working on sita already. we should reset passwords for mail soon too. 2011-02-25 02:51 just to be sure. 2011-02-25 02:52 wolfspraul: don't know how strictly they enforce those "flow control" regulations. there's also something for imports, which they mentioned when i was at customs about every month because things from openmoko had tripped up another trap, but they didn't seem to be too concerned about that rule at that time 2011-02-25 02:52 you read those regulatory texts, and you mentally apply it all to yourself 2011-02-25 02:53 I don't know why om had all these problems. I have been shipping hundreds of packages all over the world the last 1.5 years. 2011-02-25 02:53 roh: yeah, better safe than sorry. or leave the old ones around as honeytraps :) 2011-02-25 02:53 and except for 1 airmail letter to Colombia (which was never delivered), I neved had one single problem. 2011-02-25 02:53 to be fair: i'd like to do some kind of 'reset' somewhere 2011-02-25 02:54 and that lost one I didn't send myself, so I'm not 100% how or where from it was exactly sent. 2011-02-25 02:54 wolfspraul: perhaps argentine customs are just a little nastier than the rest ? :) 2011-02-25 02:54 make it all smaller, easier to administrate and less work to do so. need to check that with gismo and harald 2011-02-25 02:54 roh: what did you have in mind of resetting ? 2011-02-25 02:55 maybe weed out most of the old accounts. see who is forwarding mail and who is not checking at all. 2011-02-25 02:55 wpwrak: the moko universe. 2011-02-25 02:55 servers 2011-02-25 02:55 we have quite some overhead at some places left over from the internal/external complex account seperation etc. 2011-02-25 02:55 hmm yes 2011-02-25 02:56 i'd like to change to 'kiss vms' 2011-02-25 02:57 one does mail, one does lists (one of these is also primary mx), one docs, one wiki, one git, one admin-foo and one downloads and one buildhost (if we still want to) 2011-02-25 02:57 "roh loves VAX/VMS" ? ;-) 2011-02-25 02:58 nah. 'make the vm as noncomplex as possible' .. dont mix services (always a hell to untangle/fix when broken) 2011-02-25 02:58 also makes backup dead easy and moving to other hosting muuuuch easier 2011-02-25 02:59 3/5 atusb enumerate. 2/5 will need more encouragement ... 2011-02-25 02:59 i just need to shutdown the vm, backup it as always, move the tarball over and restore, restart and fix the routing. yes it has downtime (could be done without with shared routing and storage) 2011-02-25 03:00 loves self-contained stuff. 2011-02-25 03:00 wpwrak: ah. still bugfixing the hw? 2011-02-25 03:03 wolfspraul ? 2011-02-25 03:06 wpwrak are you here 2011-02-25 03:12 roh: yeah. building that stuff takes a looong time ... 2011-02-25 03:13 roh: i've basically been making boards for three weeks in a row now. well, including a few false starts with the atben redesign, and discarding the silabs-based atusb boards i had prepared earlier. 2011-02-25 03:15 rjeffries: yup 2011-02-25 03:16 roh: (silabs) just unpopulated pcbs, luckily 2011-02-25 03:21 which silabs? 2011-02-25 03:21 eh. which chips 2011-02-25 03:33 wpwrak I think I let the fab quote die, thinking about the "why" do not wish to burn brudges for next time 2011-02-25 03:34 s/brudges/bridges 2011-02-25 03:46 rjeffries: don't want to try to see if this can be improved ? 2011-02-25 03:47 well, in any case it will not make sense to buy fabs, since tuxbrain_away tuxbrain has a firm order in process 2011-02-25 03:49 rjeffries: we still don't know how good/bad his UBBs will be. yours could be plan B 2011-02-25 03:49 mail ! mail ! a little, at least :) 2011-02-25 03:52 will be back in a few minutes (+ retry wobble) i hope 2011-02-25 03:54 roh: great. thanks a lot !!! 2011-02-25 03:59 wpwrak I did ask her if the quote reflected all conditions of fab spec. was worried they had shined on the laser cutting 2011-02-25 04:01 rjeffries: hmm, may be better to ask what it would take to bring the cost down. also, that fab may not be the best place for a low price at such quantities. their typical range may be well below 100. 2011-02-25 04:01 rjeffries: also, when you visit their web site, their list of equipment doesn't mention a laser cutter. but that's okay. if they have a mill that can do it, that's just as good. 2011-02-25 04:02 okI'll continue the dialog 2011-02-25 04:02 also remember I have anotrher guy waiting to bid. 2011-02-25 04:03 rjeffries: yeah, competition is good. the invisible hand of the market ;-) 2011-02-25 04:04 but... this is very likely a game,,, with no order from me forthcoming 2011-02-25 04:05 rjeffries: playing games you learn for the real hunt 2011-02-25 04:06 wpwrak: yay. mail got in 2011-02-25 04:07 on the quoute from spain was that a 2-sided board? 2011-02-25 04:07 i think so 2011-02-25 04:08 aye 2011-02-25 04:15 yay. lists work too. now we need to wait 2011-02-25 04:17 roh: just got "die 5." :) 2011-02-25 04:39 http://admin-trac.openmoko.org/trac/blog/lists%20are%20back 2011-02-25 04:40 also wrote a mail to community with that link. somehow i have problems just letting it die 2011-02-25 04:46 roh: letting it die ... the community ? the lists ? the server ? ... 2011-02-25 04:47 exactly :) 2011-02-25 04:48 chandra is a wreck.. basically i'd like to redo some service-vms as well as all besides agni (already a recent ubuntu) 2011-02-25 04:48 s/all/all vm-hosts/g 2011-02-25 04:50 i think i'll start by moving all disabled vms we dont use anymore from the disks to the backup storage (and get that one online again) 2011-02-25 04:51 roh: so mail will live on for a bit longer ? 2011-02-25 04:52 i hope so. its one of the services which need updating (now lenny) and moving to a better hw as well as a fresher vmhost-os 2011-02-25 05:38 interesting. now the board that didn't enumerate before do 2011-02-25 05:39 what i changed: nothing at all 2011-02-25 05:39 maybe another case of flux resistance. the more it dries, the less if conducts ... 2011-02-25 05:39 s/if/it/ 2011-02-25 06:02 [commit] kyak: moc: various changes http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/51e26e3 2011-02-25 06:03 wpwrak: got any flux cleaner? 2011-02-25 06:03 spray on, press out with air 2011-02-25 06:16 kyak: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Kinyin-chinese-notepad.png 2011-02-25 06:17 xiangfu: awesome! i will add it to applications: ) 2011-02-25 06:17 kyak: already in there. 2011-02-25 06:17 oh! even better :) 2011-02-25 06:18 kyak: if I run 'kinyin' --> 'fbgrab /root/kinyin.png' --> scp to pc --> the picture not correct. 2011-02-25 06:19 kyak: I have to run 'kinyin' --> 'fbgrab /root/kinyin_1.png' --> 'exit kinyin' --> 'imgv /root/kinyin_1.png' --> 'fbgrab' again. --> scp to pc --> picture show up. 2011-02-25 06:19 xiangfu: i know, seems that fbgrab is not working quite correctly in some cases. If you do convert kinyin.png kinyin.jpg on your PC, it works fine 2011-02-25 06:21 convert kinyin.png kinyin.png should also work.. it seems to me that fbgrab is adding some transparetn layer or something 2011-02-25 06:22 kyak: ok. screen shot update: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Kinyin-chinese-notepad.png 2011-02-25 06:22 oh, much cleaner now! 2011-02-25 06:25 06:20 < xiangfu> kyak: ok. screen shot update: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Kinyin-chinese-notepad.png 2011-02-25 06:31 wejp: a question: can gmu's mp3 decoder work also with libmad, or libmpg123 only? 2011-02-25 06:36 roh: (flux cleaner) naw, ran out of it. it's kinda hard to find, too. several passes with water and alcohol seem to work, too. 2011-02-25 06:38 hard to find? 2011-02-25 06:38 hm. adam should send you a carepackage from asia 2011-02-25 06:40 ;-) 2011-02-25 06:40 ok. i'll head home now. 7:40 already (outdoors gets annoying. people are awake and running around) 2011-02-25 06:58 wolfspraul: so how shall things be sent ? dimensions will be around 10 mm x 50 mm x 120 mm for each kit, if minimizing thickness 2011-02-25 06:58 arg!!! gcc version I have being compiling doesn't have atmega328 support!!! 2011-02-25 06:59 wejp: seems that it's libmpg123 only :) 2011-02-25 06:59 knoks his head on the keybq9reh opgnq fpgiuq qpreytabmpodif 2011-02-25 06:59 tuxbrain: no problem. it'll only take a day or two to make another ;-) 2011-02-25 07:01 wpwrak: I would still try a regular airmail letter 2011-02-25 07:02 or fedex, but then it's a lot more expensive 2011-02-25 07:02 A LOT 2011-02-25 07:02 for the airmail letter, maybe try 1 first, wait a week to see whether it arrives 2011-02-25 07:03 if you want to send it as a regular mail package, and you need to fill out a small customs form somewhere, I'd say "usb stick" 2011-02-25 07:04 which one shall go first ? a)dam, j)oachim, or r)ichard ? 2011-02-25 07:04 pick the nearest and most common thing :-) 2011-02-25 07:04 I'd say roh, adam is in the midst of some critical m1 rc3 fixes that he wants to finish first 2011-02-25 07:05 Adam only needs his as a guideline through the production process. 2011-02-25 07:06 roh will probably look into mechanical, and richard into software stack (?) hopefully... 2011-02-25 07:07 regular mail takes <= 10-12 days to the US, <= 14-15 days to europe/asia 2011-02-25 07:08 (typical time) 2011-02-25 07:09 i've seen things spend between 1-3 weeks, so this seems to be a reasonably accurate estimate 2011-02-25 07:11 wow that's slow 2011-02-25 07:12 and a customs form is required. let's see what it says ... 2011-02-25 07:12 for a letter or for a package? 2011-02-25 07:13 normally the customs snippet is only for packages 2011-02-25 07:14 package. let's see what it is for letters ... 2011-02-25 07:20 if you send as a small package, I'd declare it as 'usb stick' or even 'usb gadget' 2011-02-25 07:20 don't specify anything 2011-02-25 07:20 give them something to chew on, if they want to chew 2011-02-25 07:21 hmm, it's three distinct items, one with a cable between boards 2011-02-25 07:21 "adapter cable" 2011-02-25 07:21 it doesn't matter much, for sure 2011-02-25 07:22 the only problem is I feel really lost commenting on which way to send something out of Argentina is best 2011-02-25 07:22 so I'm just guessing 2011-02-25 07:22 roh just send this package to Adam and it was pretty good 2011-02-25 07:22 tracking wasn't great but worked 2011-02-25 07:23 was delivered by normal Taiwan Post on the other side 2011-02-25 07:25 i know that letters containing letters pass without problems. i know that other stuff with courier passes with only minor problems (and i think i can anticipate these by now) 2011-02-25 07:26 i have no idea what happens if you send something that isn't a letter as a letter. i know that at least inbound mail is examined carefully enough that they caught two cheques out of 3-4 (and stole them) 2011-02-25 07:26 relax. who says that 'letter' cannot be 'electronic letter'. 2011-02-25 07:27 I can ship an ipad and say I thought it's a 'letter'. 2011-02-25 07:27 e-mail ;-) hah, why haven't i thought of this ;-) 2011-02-25 07:27 because when you turn it on it shows my letter! 2011-02-25 07:27 I left it right there on the screen! 2011-02-25 07:27 see! 2011-02-25 07:27 good luck arguing that ;-) 2011-02-25 07:27 no problem 2011-02-25 07:27 didn't you see that Apple advertisement? 2011-02-25 07:27 i think they'll just pocket your ipad and be done with it :) 2011-02-25 07:28 not sure. but I am somewhat serious with my argument. 2011-02-25 07:28 don't always assume you know or understand everything. 2011-02-25 07:28 I am not saying I know how to get away with something. 2011-02-25 07:28 but yes, you can totally stand there and say you thought this ipad is a letter. why not. 2011-02-25 07:28 I left my text right on the screen! 2011-02-25 07:28 trust me this happens 2011-02-25 07:28 and not by people who do it on purpose 2011-02-25 07:29 well, i don't disagree that the average alzheimer patient may believe all sort of things, but ... 2011-02-25 07:30 nah 2011-02-25 07:30 i sometimes try the "me foreigner, don't understand nothing" approach, but it rarely works 2011-02-25 07:33 :) 2011-02-25 07:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcw_Mvnp3WY&playnext=1&list=PL32BFD33A68B77EBD 2011-02-25 07:34 kids grow up with this stuff 2011-02-25 07:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAyBaNwDX8c&feature=related 2011-02-25 07:37 well, some people dry their pets in the microwave ... 2011-02-25 07:37 ... or at least try to :) 2011-02-25 07:37 btw, in China they are leading in sniffiness again. first few times when I send a package I still felt somewhat insulted. they open it right in front of you, and peel through everything you have their, asking questions. 2011-02-25 07:37 with letters, they are touching around with more sensitivity than the average urologist would go about a prostate check 2011-02-25 07:38 disgusting 2011-02-25 07:38 and if anything doesn't 'feel' right - asking questions 2011-02-25 07:38 of course there is still a flood of stuff being sent in all imaginable ways, because the other side (the senders) are equally ignorant of whatever regulation may be written somewhere 2011-02-25 07:38 ignorance is bliss 2011-02-25 07:40 if the argentine post has a small international package, maybe that's a good idea 2011-02-25 07:40 that would be the same as roh's package to Adam 2011-02-25 07:41 it would be trackable, has a short customs form (I'd just say "usb adapter" or so), and it would hopefully arrive in about a week or so, at reasonable cost 2011-02-25 07:41 they have small parcels, with customs form 2011-02-25 07:41 trackable? 2011-02-25 07:41 the tracking number gives you at least the illusion that you know more about the package, and one could assume they are trying to move those faster through the system. 2011-02-25 07:43 tracking at least inside argentina. and the recipient has to sign. 2011-02-25 07:43 tracking may also discourage theft a little 2011-02-25 07:46 you really think they will apply that 1 package/month rule? 2011-02-25 07:46 if they do, you probably cannot drop all 3 packages at the same time :-) 2011-02-25 07:46 unless you write 3 different sender addresses onto them 2011-02-25 07:46 since multiple people can live at your same address, that shouldn't be too much of a problem either :-) 2011-02-25 07:47 there are street addresses with thousands of businesses 'residing' at that very same small office building :-) 2011-02-25 07:47 i don't know what they control. if they want to see the sender's ID, then it's not so easy 2011-02-25 07:47 true true, many things are possible. so you need to try. 2011-02-25 07:48 see what is actually going on in reality. 2011-02-25 07:48 in China I need to show my passport (show = they scan it) to receive an Amazon book shipment 2011-02-25 07:48 big brother is collecting data, the more the better 2011-02-25 07:48 you almost certainly have to put the ID number somewhere. they ask that for virtually any transaction. (also credit card payments, for example) 2011-02-25 07:48 well, books are ammunition ;-) 2011-02-25 07:49 until you try it's all speculation 2011-02-25 07:51 what if you give a fake/random ID? do you think it's actually cross-checked in any way? 2011-02-25 07:52 ah .. that form is an internationally standardized document. interesting. 2011-02-25 07:52 probably not, but i don't have any fake IDs 2011-02-25 07:53 don't know how hard it would be to get some made or - probably easier - get a stolen one ... 2011-02-25 07:53 [commit] kyak: moc: rearrange dependencies http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/2dc7838 2011-02-25 07:53 oh, I was more thinking if you just have to write down a number, maybe you can make it up on the spot :-) 2011-02-25 07:54 you should see me filling out forms :-) 2011-02-25 07:54 the more data is being asked from me, the more I happily provide (ahem) 2011-02-25 07:54 nobody showed the regulation to me at the right time that one wasn't allowed to fill out the form in drunk state 2011-02-25 07:55 a lot of these things are just run so the other side has a bit of paperwork so some people can have a steady income filing stuff 2011-02-25 07:55 not to be taken too seriously :-) 2011-02-25 07:55 "nur kein stress" 2011-02-25 07:56 hmm, the thingy they require can range from simple to the equivalent of the declaration you include with a courier shipment. it's the CN22 form. simple: http://www.altacarta.com/espanol/customs.html 2011-02-25 07:57 involved: ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/public/ctf/rm/CN22_2.pdf 2011-02-25 07:58 I would say "USB adapter", I would not check gift or sample, and write the value as 8 USD 2011-02-25 07:58 alternatively you can also check 'gift', 'sample' would be my last option 2011-02-25 07:58 sample can be a trap, yes 2011-02-25 07:58 the key is the low value, but not zero 2011-02-25 07:59 yeah. zero is another trap :) 2011-02-25 07:59 and a reasonably small thing, 'usb adapter' is perfect, everybody has heard of 'usb' 2011-02-25 08:00 the problem is that it's three distinct parts and only one looks like a usb adapter 2011-02-25 08:00 :-) 2011-02-25 08:01 not in a million years would anyone object, imho 2011-02-25 08:01 then say 'adapter cable', how about that? 2011-02-25 08:01 or just 'adapter' 2011-02-25 08:01 the art is to make it look harmless and not create the impression that you're actually trying to hide something :) 2011-02-25 08:01 what??? 2011-02-25 08:01 don't worry 2011-02-25 08:02 millions of things are being sent around every day 2011-02-25 08:02 I read some numbers that 10% or so of medicine in the US is now coming in illegally in packages from all sorts of countries 2011-02-25 08:03 because medicine prices in the US are very high, and many people simply cannot afford them, have no health care etc. 2011-02-25 08:03 so it's either I get that cheap antibiotic shipped over from 'country of your choice', or I have no antibiotic at all 2011-02-25 08:04 and I guarantee you, the flood will come, every day, and is unstoppable 2011-02-25 08:04 in all that mess you have your 3 earth-shaking ben-wpan boards now... 2011-02-25 08:05 I'm mostly worried we loose a lot of time if the shipment goes missing, and also your time to make them. 2011-02-25 08:05 the 'let's ship cheap antibiotics' people don't have that problem 2011-02-25 08:06 they will win economically 2011-02-25 08:06 they will just send the stuff in 100 different forms and ways and can work with percentages that pass in this or that way 2011-02-25 08:07 but since about a year ago I have shipped way over 500 packages here and there, and have to say: extremely few problems 2011-02-25 08:07 I lost exactly one as I mentioned, and that was sent in a bit of chaotic way, so I'm not sure where it was actually mishandled. 2011-02-25 08:07 everything else, 100%, arrive 2011-02-25 08:07 arrived 2011-02-25 08:08 letters, packages, courier shipments 2011-02-25 08:08 the nastiest problems is stuff into mainland China 2011-02-25 08:08 Chinese customs has the advantage of being able to hire tens of thousands of little ants to go through stuff 2011-02-25 08:08 for your shipments, did you make them as a private person ? or as a company exporting things ? 2011-02-25 08:08 then they have draconian paranoid dictators running the country 2011-02-25 08:09 all sorts of things 2011-02-25 08:09 private, company, this that 2011-02-25 08:09 it doesn't matter 2011-02-25 08:09 also nowadays what I see a lot is that courier companies are rejecting stuff 2011-02-25 08:09 that makes it easier 2011-02-25 08:09 they specialize in certain areas 2011-02-25 08:09 so they say "no electronics into China" 2011-02-25 08:09 or "no phones into Taiwan" 2011-02-25 08:09 but then with others it's no problem at all :-) 2011-02-25 08:09 go figure 2011-02-25 08:10 a lot of them are fuzzy about batteries now 2011-02-25 08:10 or toner cartridges :) 2011-02-25 08:11 the real stuff that is hot is (aside from the obvious nuclear, weapons, drugs) - medicine, chemicals, pornography or political content (in some countries) 2011-02-25 08:11 so if you think about it that way, really our stuff is the most harmless possible 2011-02-25 08:12 it's nothing actually 2011-02-25 08:12 it doesn't even work right :-) 2011-02-25 08:12 what's also hot here is any form of tax evasion 2011-02-25 08:12 not sure 2011-02-25 08:12 again the courier companies are behind this 2011-02-25 08:12 tax authorities are not stupid 2011-02-25 08:12 they work with fedex, ups directly 2011-02-25 08:13 so you don't need to worry, if you use a courier company they will reject if if there is a tax problem 2011-02-25 08:13