2011-02-09 00:52 hey 2011-02-09 00:53 Guest94289: yes? 2011-02-09 00:54 interested in ben nanonote device 2011-02-09 00:54 how capable is it? 2011-02-09 00:55 is it a kit? 2011-02-09 00:57 kit? 2011-02-09 00:57 how 'capable' - you can think of it like an unconnected PDA 2011-02-09 00:58 do you know the specs? what do you have in mind with 'capable'? 2011-02-09 00:58 well, what does "open hardware" mean? 2011-02-09 00:58 is it a device, or just instructions and a bag of components? 2011-02-09 00:59 ah good point :-) 2011-02-09 00:59 open hardware means that we try everything possible to not hide hardware or manufacturing secrets 2011-02-09 01:00 in the end it's a normal portable computing device, in addition one that has very good free software support, and one you could theoretically build yourself 2011-02-09 01:00 by "manufacturing" do you mean you assemble it out of "off the shelf" parts? 2011-02-09 01:01 or do you actually design everything from scratch? 2011-02-09 01:02 'from scratch' is relative. no, there are many closed parts in it still. 2011-02-09 01:02 which perspective do you look at the NanoNote from? 2011-02-09 01:02 as someone who just wants to use it? 2011-02-09 01:03 as someone who wants to port free software to it, for whatever reason? 2011-02-09 01:03 or as someone who wants to manufacture an improved version and sell that? 2011-02-09 01:03 from a perspective of someone who wants to learn how hardware works 2011-02-09 01:04 ah cool, that's good 2011-02-09 01:05 'hardware works' as in the design/development of hardware, or the making/manufacturing of hardware? 2011-02-09 01:05 well, I guess one needs to know both 2011-02-09 01:06 for what need? 2011-02-09 01:06 you will find a wealth of information about both things on qi-hardware.com 2011-02-09 01:06 the mailing list, this channel here, the wiki and projects server 2011-02-09 01:06 the planet 2011-02-09 01:07 Ben NanoNote and (upcoming) Milkymist One are two products with some focus on 2011-02-09 01:08 so basically this device is a CPU, some controllers, memory, flash, and keyboard/display, right? 2011-02-09 01:09 what kind of a CPU is it? 2011-02-09 01:09 the NanoNote? it's a normal, bit old-fashioned unconnected PDA 2011-02-09 01:09 336 Mhz mips-like 2011-02-09 01:09 I'm not familiar with PDAs 2011-02-09 01:10 you can use it as a music player, for note taking, many other small tasks you could do on-the-go 2011-02-09 01:10 you can use it as a 2 gb usb-storage with keyboard & screen, password safe, etc. 2011-02-09 01:11 where's documentation for it? 2011-02-09 01:12 I mean hardware architecture, instruction set, etc 2011-02-09 01:12 just google, most of it is in the wiki but google should have the best search access 2011-02-09 01:14 i did, but havent' found anything 2011-02-09 01:14 could you please post the link? 2011-02-09 01:18 if I google, the second link is not bad http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote 2011-02-09 01:18 that's the NanoNote homepage in the wiki, in dire need of a massive cleanup but still it's a starting point 2011-02-09 01:18 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote 2011-02-09 01:19 (sorry) http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Hardware-Ben 2011-02-09 01:19 there's another one 2011-02-09 01:19 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Hardware_basics 2011-02-09 01:19 and another one 2011-02-09 01:19 there are pointers to datasheets as well 2011-02-09 01:20 there are kicad and orcad schematics and layouts in the projects and downloads servers, pdf schematics 2011-02-09 01:20 yep, just found it, thanks 2011-02-09 01:21 who assembled it? 2011-02-09 01:22 and how many of them exist? 2011-02-09 01:26 who assembled it? workers at the Sunty factory in Shenzhen, China 2011-02-09 01:26 about 1100 were sold so far 2011-02-09 01:26 basically we've made 2 batches of 1000 each so far, first batch sold out, second batch selling now 2011-02-09 01:27 i see 2011-02-09 01:31 wolfspraul: since a lot of discussion is going on lately about 8:10 or ubb, or ben-wpan - is there any schedule when the new version of Ben might appear? 2011-02-09 01:33 you mean a whole device? (Ya NanoNote) 2011-02-09 01:35 ah, so it's all coming for Ya NanoNote? then yes, i' 2011-02-09 01:35 i'm speaking about Ya 2011-02-09 01:35 (i though there going to be some Ben update first) 2011-02-09 01:36 no Ben update, and for the Ya we need a strong package and more business partners (distributors, marketing, etc) 2011-02-09 01:36 ok, so there is no schedule so far? 2011-02-09 01:37 for sure we would want to include something like ben-wpan, but that's still quite a bit of work to make that work well, produce more, etc. 2011-02-09 01:37 definitely no schedule 2011-02-09 01:37 it's ready when it's ready? :-) 2011-02-09 01:37 my schedule is to sell more Ben, and make the Ben stronger. any of that strength will carry over to Ya. If someone else can do it faster, more power to them. 2011-02-09 01:38 it is still way too hard to update the software on Ben, and the connection between Ben and free data sources (music, maps, etc) is also basically non-existant today. 2011-02-09 01:39 ok then :) have you thought about creating some kind of model line? i mean, right now there is Ben only, and it is the same for everyone. Then it's going to be Ya, but who know when 2011-02-09 01:39 maybe you can do some minor update to Ben hardware, add some intersting feature, and create a model line? 2011-02-09 01:40 no, I will sell my stock of Ben, and if I can sell it out I will make more. 2011-02-09 01:40 ok, i got your point 2011-02-09 01:41 we haven't found the sweet spot of product features, brand awareness, fulfilling customer demands yet. 2011-02-09 01:41 'blindly' adding new hardware features would be a guaranteed way to make the project fail, imho 2011-02-09 01:41 of course it can also fail if we don't do that, but hey, I try one way. others can try other ways :-) 2011-02-09 01:42 with 'blindly' adding I mean that I don't have strong enough real customer feedback for this or that feature. 2011-02-09 01:42 and that is because the business partners for ben are too weak, not willing to invest/order/etc. so we grow it slowly... 2011-02-09 01:42 the size of orders on my end has to go up, there must be tangible (real) interest in some features 2011-02-09 01:43 if you want to order 500 ben, we are talking :-) 2011-02-09 01:43 you pre-pay 50% when you order, the other 50% when I ship 2011-02-09 01:43 if I have a bunch of people where each says "I buy 1 if feature X (and Y and Z) are included", that's going nowhere 2011-02-09 01:44 sorry I meant if you want to order 500 ben+ 2011-02-09 01:45 there are very good steps happening on both hw and sw side, I think. so I am patient and continuing. 2011-02-09 01:46 ok, thanks for explanation! 2011-02-09 01:48 how about you? are you still using your nano? are you interested in bringing more functionality to it? 2011-02-09 01:48 I hope we can include the mplayer you worked on asap. 2011-02-09 01:48 actually I'm also wondering whether it's possible to turn the Ben into a voip client. 2011-02-09 01:48 I still fire up my old Mac and use Skype - bah. :-) 2011-02-09 01:49 lately, my wife is using it more than me :) beeting the crap out of gottet (tetris) :) sometimes we fight, when i need to reflash it :) 2011-02-09 01:49 he, that doesn't sound too bad 2011-02-09 01:50 hopefully you still get your hands on it once in a while for polishing or more porting 2011-02-09 01:50 you have been very helpful on the internationalization side, for example (among other things) 2011-02-09 01:50 we need people like you for that... 2011-02-09 01:51 you just cannot do this in theory by turning on a few features (config options), and thinking you are done 2011-02-09 01:51 mplayer is good.. i used to watch videos in car on a way home from work.. Now the traffic is a little better, so i can't watch videos 2011-02-09 01:51 needs a real user to uncover all small details 2011-02-09 01:51 another thing that is on my radar/wishlist is better scripting language support 2011-02-09 01:52 sure, sure.. the latest fixes of iconv/gettext are already inside openwrt-packages 2011-02-09 01:52 I hope we have a set of 5-10 scripting languages that are well supported, meaning that they are configured well, and have actual users. 2011-02-09 01:52 php, python, perl, lua, erlang, tcl, maybe others? 2011-02-09 01:52 sh of course :-) and make 2011-02-09 01:53 I think right now there's a lot of loose ends on the scripting language side. we have enabled some, but the configuration options are essentially random, and I don't think many people use them, so the config options won't get better either. 2011-02-09 01:54 yeah.. i use tcl from time to time, but not on Ben.. 2011-02-09 01:55 though i commited my .tclshrc :) 2011-02-09 01:55 is tcl on ben already? (I don't even know) 2011-02-09 01:55 do you think it is in an actually usable state? 2011-02-09 01:56 or just 'compiles and installs' quality :-) 2011-02-09 01:56 yeah, it's usable and even in openwrt feeds 2011-02-09 01:57 with php we are now including some more modules, also pear although I don't know how/whether it works. pecl is another beast there, probably hard on Ben. 2011-02-09 01:57 I think the main problem with scripting languages is that we need people who are actively using them. 2011-02-09 01:57 you know, the problem for me is that i can't do a lot of fun things offline 2011-02-09 01:57 if we have them, and get good feedback from them, it should get better fast. if we don't have them, whatever we do that language will most likely be a stub/empty promise in reality. 2011-02-09 01:58 most of the time, Ben is connected to laptop via USB 2011-02-09 01:58 when i'm offline, the best i can do is play games :) 2011-02-09 01:58 same for me. real offline is only listening to music and some note taking. 2011-02-09 01:58 ah yes, games too. 2011-02-09 01:58 or maybe do some random things in shell 2011-02-09 01:58 explore openwrt internals :) 2011-02-09 03:41 [commit] kyak: qstardict: needs setting QMAKE_CXX explicitely http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/70f6198 2011-02-09 03:42 mirko: weird, qstardict failed to build after recent qt4 updates. I had to make the change as above -^ 2011-02-09 03:43 strangely, other qt4 apps still build fine 2011-02-09 04:00 [commit] kyak: links: update version, enable openssl, enable svgalib (working!) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/d799c0a 2011-02-09 04:04 wolfspraul: may i ask you to give me access to gmenu2x git repo? 2011-02-09 05:02 hi 2011-02-09 05:34 hi rejon, skype call pending , when do you want to schedule it? 2011-02-09 05:36 lets do on friday 2011-02-09 05:40 hey rejon 2011-02-09 05:40 wordup roh 2011-02-09 05:40 everything went fine on fosdem? 2011-02-09 05:40 package delivered 2011-02-09 05:40 nice 2011-02-09 05:46 kyak: of course, nothing easier than that 2011-02-09 05:48 kyak: added, thanks a lot for asking 2011-02-09 05:48 wolfspraul: thanks! 2011-02-09 05:54 rejon friday will be complicated due I have an whole day Arduino Event... let schedule it without delay on monday 2011-02-09 05:54 ok 2011-02-09 05:54 sounds good 2011-02-09 05:54 better 2011-02-09 05:55 tuxbrain 6 pm your time 2011-02-09 05:55 oh wait 2011-02-09 05:55 lets do 4 pm your time 2011-02-09 05:56 mmmm then I will have only about 30 mins, I'm (mostly)free form 10:00am to 16:30 and then avobe 19:30 2011-02-09 05:57 wpwrak: in 20 mins or so I will have a call from the pcb maker ... let's see... 2011-02-09 05:58 last time for a one sided 100 units of a 50x40mm pcb where 120¬ to setup and then 1,23¬ each, lets see how much this time 2011-02-09 06:05 [commit] kyak: links: forcedly disable mouse for svgalib http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/5030cca 2011-02-09 06:36 tuxbrain: you write this 37 min ago. what did they say ? :) 2011-02-09 06:37 patience mes ami, if he don't call back at in other 25 I will call him :) 2011-02-09 06:37 I was quite bussy on the phone today so maybe I was on a call when he does ... 2011-02-09 06:47 wolfspraul: (scripting) for making scripting real fun, the keyboard needs a bit of a cleanup. most programming languages like special characters. their placement is a bit of a brain-twister. 2011-02-09 06:48 wolfspraul: (connectedness) maybe, "real work only when connected" is the way to go. or, rather, users behaving very different in connected and unconnected mode. 2011-02-09 06:49 what a man! nothing can be left behind him hidden in scrollback :) 2011-02-09 06:49 ((-:C 2011-02-09 06:49 nothing better than a fat backlog to start the day :) 2011-02-09 06:50 so you admit that there is such thing as "the start of the day"? :) 2011-02-09 06:52 that time after a multihour sleep period, between maybe 3am and noon local time. closes approximation i have :) 2011-02-09 06:53 closesT 2011-02-09 06:55 so now you admit that you actually sleep? :) 2011-02-09 06:55 kyak: (kbd) actually, about 50% of what i want the ya for is a new keyboard :) i've become increasingly convinced of the general horridness of the two fn-like modifiers. and of course, if there's a change to kill the F# keys, it would be a shame to miss it :) 2011-02-09 06:55 kyak: let's call it think afk, with the eyes closed:) 2011-02-09 06:58 wpwrak: didn't you upload a proposed layout somewhere? 2011-02-09 06:58 it's not linked from the ya page yet I think, I want to add the link 2011-02-09 06:58 wolfspraul: your explanations are great every time somebody gets in and ask "what is ben?" "should I buy a ben?" Somebody should take all your answers and put them on a FAQ wiki page. And about somebody buying many bens to help to grow the project: I am trying to catch that guy named sujan.. just to help this. I guess that this guy could buy those 500+ ben :) Really, and I am serioues about. Just that when he was asking me a lot of things I was very busy 2011-02-09 06:58 lemme find it ... 2011-02-09 06:59 http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/layout.pdf 2011-02-09 06:59 wpwrak: i agree, also would be nice to have a possibility for localized keyboards.. i'm not sure if you udnerstand, it looks like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Keyboard_KAZ.png 2011-02-09 06:59 tuxbrain: you could help me to find that guy and you could sell 500+ bens in once 2011-02-09 06:59 tuxbrain: help/convince 2011-02-09 07:00 zrafa: sure I am convinced a real business opportunity (= real buyer) will emerge 2011-02-09 07:00 your help is VERY appreciated, we need to follow every serious lead 2011-02-09 07:00 kyak: (localized) yes, i've been thinking of you :) 2011-02-09 07:00 wolfspraul: he is perfect I guess. If the things he was telling me are true 2011-02-09 07:00 wolfspraul: then he is some of those guy (real business) 2011-02-09 07:01 kyak: my goal would be a) make the (current) layout more friendly, and b) make the keyboard more regular (only straight lines, etc.) 2011-02-09 07:01 wpwrak: the F keys would remain in that proposal? 2011-02-09 07:01 kyak: with b), if should become easier to make custom keycaps. in the days of laser engraving, that can't be too difficult. 2011-02-09 07:01 wpwrak: do you mean, all buttons are aligned in rows and columns? 2011-02-09 07:01 there were a bunch of proposals, I just want to link to them from the Ya page for now 2011-02-09 07:02 wolfspraul: IIRC he is a phd student.. and he is developing (with other students) one machine for poor countries which helps with education, very basic education. He showed me a machine doing that right now. And that machine has only 3 or 4 buttons and a speaker and mic 2011-02-09 07:02 wolfspraul: no more 2011-02-09 07:02 wolfspraul: the F# keys go away. the F# key function would still be available. F1 would be fn+Space+Q 2011-02-09 07:03 wolfspraul: he is wanting to use a new machine with new software more powerful. And with screen nn has it would be better he told me. Moreover he likes the idea this hardware should be copyleft hardware 2011-02-09 07:03 ok I linked to the pdf 2011-02-09 07:03 wolfspraul: i need a better name for "fn" and "Fn", though. Fn = fn+Space would be the modifier that turns the top row into F# keys 2011-02-09 07:03 wpwrak: oh, ok. yes, i think laser engaving is how it's usually done to make localized keyboards.. however, latin inscriptions have to be shifted a bit on the buttons 2011-02-09 07:03 wolfspraul: he said me they already has around 20+ nn for this project, so I guess that he was serious about 2011-02-09 07:03 kyak: rows and columns as much as possible, yes. if you look at http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/layout.pdf 2011-02-09 07:04 kyak: you see that there are only few exceptions. and all the new ones (space, enter) just span multiple single key cells 2011-02-09 07:04 wpwrak: but the space for the F keys would still be there, you just want to keep that empty? 2011-02-09 07:04 kyak: i left the cursor "diamond" for compatibility reasons. wouldn't mind scrapping that one, too. 2011-02-09 07:05 wolfspraul: if they already has 20+ nns then they are really working on that maybe. ANd of course, all his idea is for his phd. The big problem I saw is they do not have enought software skills, because he was doing me a lot of very basic software development questions, like "should I use gtk or sdl?". So I guessed that they are just starting 2011-02-09 07:05 your pdf only has 5 rows, but the ben keyboard has 6 rows (including F keys) 2011-02-09 07:05 wolfspraul: i would cover it with plastic. the ya would have a new case, right ? :) 2011-02-09 07:05 wpwrak: looking at it.. i guess there is a reason for not making lines straight 2011-02-09 07:05 wpwrak: i guess it's for easier typing 2011-02-09 07:06 wpwrak: ok, your layout leaves no space for putting of localized letters :) 2011-02-09 07:06 maybe at least have some common symbols, like euro or umlauts? 2011-02-09 07:06 kyak: my layout actually leaves a lot of space :) i don't use any fn+symbol combinations. so if you need more glyphs, you can start assigning these 2011-02-09 07:07 kyak: if you just need different glyphs, move some of the existing ones 2011-02-09 07:07 wolfspraul: but well, for the requirements he needs I guessed that they needs a specific software for nn, able to record audio, play audio, show on screen some messages and stuff. I was thinking that he has a really great project, with a lot of nns for him and students, and finally, if we can help him with software side his foundation or whatever would buy surely a lot of nns to be real the project on poor countries. 2011-02-09 07:07 wpwrak: the anwers was too long mail please ... where is the gerber file? lol 2011-02-09 07:08 kyak: (umlauts) that's a software problem :) if you need umlauts occasionally, make them dead keys. so "ae" becomes " followed by a 2011-02-09 07:08 ;-)))) 2011-02-09 07:08 wpwrak: most of the buttons have two symbols, some have three. do you think there is enough space to put 1 or 2 more symbols? 2011-02-09 07:08 wolfspraul: Also, his project is not like OLPC .. no, they need a really basic machine. In fact, currently he showed me the current hardware being used. And that is just a tiny machine with just 3 buttons, nomore. 2011-02-09 07:08 tuxbrain: oh, you just forwarded the mail. you're brutal ;-) 2011-02-09 07:09 tuxbrain: i hope you also sent him this one: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/edge.pdf 2011-02-09 07:09 wpwrak: i don't mean from the software side. i mean, literally looking at keyboard and seeing what you are hgoing to type 2011-02-09 07:09 yes I have send a summarized mail with gerber, mesures, edge, and dri... 2011-02-09 07:11 tuxbrain: werner's mail is highly unusual 2011-02-09 07:11 this is not how the industry works, and how a 100 EUR business can be dealt with. let's see what they do :-) 2011-02-09 07:12 in the end that ubb is so brutally simple, you either just do it right away, or forget about it 2011-02-09 07:12 (I'm talking about the pcb maker, not you) 2011-02-09 07:12 yeah :) 2011-02-09 07:12 kyak: are dead keys pretty straightforward ? probably cleaner than having a ' somewhere that's just a ', and then another ' that's an accent. or a bunch of accented characters scattered all over the place. i mean for the "default" keyboard. 2011-02-09 07:12 we have time to dwell over those things with ridiculous over-thinking over-engineering practices 2011-02-09 07:13 hardware and manufacturing is all about economics, not technology 2011-02-09 07:13 take the milkymist one rc2 run for example 2011-02-09 07:13 wolfspraul: to be honest, my mail wasn't meant for sending to the factory "as is". maybe the production part. but pcb fabs normally don't care about why and how you'd use it ;-) 2011-02-09 07:13 the magic is not that 34 boards out of 40 pass 100%, the magic is that all the work on the smt side was done for 40 USD / piece 2011-02-09 07:14 wpwrak: oh sure, I know. that's what I'm saying. 2011-02-09 07:14 hardware/manufacturing is brutal, every minute disappears and every penny needs to be made _NOW_, or never. it's not software where you can get the rewards later. 2011-02-09 07:15 the factory will look at your mail like a message from another planet 2011-02-09 07:15 some alien culture 2011-02-09 07:15 :-) 2011-02-09 07:15 wpwrak: i'm talking about layout switching. And thus having at least two layouts engraved on buttons (like in the link i gave above). Btw, why is curly/square brackets arrangement so strange? (not like on PC keyboard) 2011-02-09 07:15 in China/Taiwan there would simply be no reply at all 2011-02-09 07:16 kyak: (braces) i think i started to run out of buttons :) 2011-02-09 07:17 wpwrak: i mean the order. Opened and closed braces are usually near each other 2011-02-09 07:18 kyak: i wanted the symbols normally on the top row to be more or less at the usual places. alas, our rows are not long enough for the upper right corner which has a lot of non-letter symbols on the pc keyboard 2011-02-09 07:18 kyak: oh. i was following the existing ben design there. no strong preference on my part 2011-02-09 07:19 ah, ok 2011-02-09 07:19 zrafa: where are they deploying these devices ? 2011-02-09 07:20 kyak: one could also make a case for reordering things in the Tab and Esc rows. e.g., move " and ' to the right and everything else a bit to the left. 2011-02-09 07:21 kyak: for localized keyboards, i would try to make it so easy to produce them that one could just order them along with the ben. either as a pack or maybe as ben + one additional design. 2011-02-09 07:22 wpwrak: let me find some links 2011-02-09 07:23 kyak: e.g., you could commit your whatever keyboard design in some ya-keyboards project. then it gets a bit of review to make sure it's technically correct. and then it could just become a choice in the shop. when someone orders, say, ya with klingon, they take a ya-generic box, put an empty keyboard into the laser engraver, run the klingon.keycaps job, put the klingon keyboard into the box as well, and off with it. 2011-02-09 07:24 wpwrak: very cool :) easily replaceble keyboard designs 2011-02-09 07:24 kyak: may not be possible to implement this on one leap (e.g., you'd need engraving capabilities close to the warehouse), but i think this should be a longer-term goal 2011-02-09 07:25 wpwrak: yeah, then one could say instead of "take notes on the go" - "take notes in native language on the go" :) 2011-02-09 07:26 heh :) 2011-02-09 07:26 because frankly speaking, typing with Ben in cyrillic is a pain.. unless you use phonetic layout 2011-02-09 07:26 which is not very convenient 2011-02-09 07:27 so i usually just show wonders of blind typing :) 2011-02-09 07:27 kyak: (pain) yeah, i can imagine. (blind typing) wow 2011-02-09 07:28 regarding dead keys, you could also create a "compose" key that would work as  compose + sequence, e.g.,  compose e =  or compose = e  for Euro 2011-02-09 07:28 so dead keys don't have to be dead keys all the time. depending on how frequently you use them 2011-02-09 07:28 yup, i know this 2011-02-09 07:29 wpwrak: (rows straight) this is really questionable if such buttons layout will make typing easier.. i think the rows are even shifted on all qwerty smartphones 2011-02-09 07:30 kyak: you mean the columns. yeah, hard to say. but it's the most space-efficient and flexible approach :) 2011-02-09 07:31 columns, sure :) 2011-02-09 07:31 kyak: e.g., you could (probably - needs verifying) implement my Enter and Space keys with two standard key slots 2011-02-09 07:31 kyak: so if someone needs more buttons, they could shrink space and enter 2011-02-09 07:31 some keys can be 1.5 size. .then you could still be space efficient 2011-02-09 07:32 kyak: only if you have two next to each other. and then you'd have an ambiguous middle position. 2011-02-09 07:33 kyak: if you start shifting rows by fractional positions, you lose buttons 2011-02-09 07:33 kyak: well, potential buttons. you could shift my Esc...Enter row and lose nothing, at the cost of no longer being able to shrink Enter 2011-02-09 07:33 wpwrak: for example, make Enter 1.5 size, and align its row right. then all buttons will be shifted 2011-02-09 07:34 maybe 1.75 even 2011-02-09 07:34 i'm not sure the shifting really matters so much. the keyboard is quite small, so you won't have many fingers on it anyway 2011-02-09 07:34 you'll only know when you try :) 2011-02-09 07:35 tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak :  the guy who will buy 500+ bens (I write that so you read what I write :) ) is working/phd at itc4d (http://www.ict4d.org.uk/). His project is : "Open Platform - Offline Mobile Learning for ICT4D : Using open hardware/software - delivering mobile learning offline in a developing country, considering the poor information infrastructure, unavailability of electricity and the problems of network connectivity, network latency, 2011-02-09 07:35 for O(2) fingers use, a clean square matrix works quite well. 2011-02-09 07:35 zrafa: yes ! finally someone who won't ask for wifi !!! ;-) 2011-02-09 07:35 tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : he was asking me a lot about how to write sdl or gtk applications for nn. 2011-02-09 07:36 tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : http://www.research.tvu.ac.uk/staffprofiles/view_profile.aspx?email=Sujan.Shrestha@pilot.tvu.ac.uk 2011-02-09 07:36 kyak: (square matrix) e.g., the OQO 01 and OQO 01+ have that. works beautifully. actually one of the best small keyboards i know. 2011-02-09 07:36 tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : that ^ was his web page. He has some blog which I do not find useful : http://offlinemobile.blogspot.com/2010/11/jlime-for-nanonote.html 2011-02-09 07:36 wpwrak: i have to believe you. I didn't use small keyboards a lot 2011-02-09 07:37 kyak: http://mobileoffice.about.com/od/tabletpcs/ss/oqomodelo1tpc_8.htm 2011-02-09 07:37 kyak: here's a better picture: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/is-the-world,review-661-5.html 2011-02-09 07:37 tell him to be free to talk wit us :) , if he pretends to buy 500+ he is actully rise to the status of "friend of soul" or blood-brother or his wife if he want :) 2011-02-09 07:38 kyak: i think what helps a lot is to keep the layout clean. many small devices have horribly crowded keyboard. so whenever you don't remember a key, you're lost for a while. 2011-02-09 07:39 wpwrak: replaceble/customized keyboards is a key. I liked this idea a lot! 2011-02-09 07:39 tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : they already have around 20+ nns for their project 2011-02-09 07:40 ok I know him :) 2011-02-09 07:40 or at least one of his dudes on his university. 2011-02-09 07:40 tuxbrain: already have that "20 bens" order hanging at the wall ? :) 2011-02-09 07:41 tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : so that is no just an idea.. I guess that they are working on that. They want to do something with nn to replace another machine. Let me find some link of that machine (which is currently being used on some countries for offline learning) 2011-02-09 07:41 with caoba frame and specialy lighted :) 2011-02-09 07:41 *grin* 2011-02-09 07:42 hm..i guess if i need the second Ben i need to hurry before indians buy it all! 2011-02-09 07:43 tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : I guess that they will not but 500+ nns if they do not do anything with the current ones. For his questions he was very far. For example, he needs just to know how to write a tiny application for nn (using sdl, gtk, whatever) to show a menu with 3 options. Or how to record and play sound. Simple stuff. SO I guess that they need some help on software side before their project sucess and they buy 1xxxx nns. 2011-02-09 07:43 For his questions= From his questions 2011-02-09 07:45 zrafa: they should talk to the CS department of their university. universities are a place where great quantities of cheap slave labour are readily available. turn those things into semester projects. post them to the CS students. voila. 2011-02-09 07:46 well, he is actually CS, isn't he ? so, even easier 2011-02-09 07:46 yeah. computing and technology 2011-02-09 07:47 wpwrak: I think so. But well, I would like to bring up again his name and that he has a project which would be from my point of view the the most important use case for nn. As offline learning machine. And with that, the idea about he/university/foundation could need 500+ bens for that :) 2011-02-09 07:48 zrafa: oh, i agree. i'm just thinking of the "what does he need from our side" case 2011-02-09 07:48 wpwrak: at least, he is trying to use the nn for something real, no just to play music and use bc 2011-02-09 07:48 btw, i nice idea to have simple "hello world" guides for sdl/gtk/qt development in wiki 2011-02-09 07:48 wpwrak: and also he is not asking for wifi(c) for his project. 2011-02-09 07:49 zrafa: on sw, he shouldn't need much. maybe he could invite you to come over for a week or two to give a seminar ? :) introduction to jlime, gui programming, all that 2011-02-09 07:49 zrafa: london in late spring/summer wouldn't be too bad 2011-02-09 07:49 wpwrak: If he will buy many nns I go free :) 2011-02-09 07:50 zrafa: travel money and equipment are different items in the budget ;-) 2011-02-09 07:51 wpwrak: but well, I was encouraging him to talk more on this or jlime channel. 2011-02-09 07:52 wpwrak: and also, I have not had news from him since december 2011-02-09 07:52 zrafa: maybe they're busy coding ;) well, couldn't hurt to ping him then, just to see how things are going 2011-02-09 07:57 zrafa: according to logs, he has been here 2010-11-01 (Monday): 2011-02-09 08:00 kyak: nothing escapes the all-seeing eye of qi-bot ;-) 2011-02-09 08:02 wpwrak: qi-bot and you :) 2011-02-09 08:02 actually, i suggested to have stats/seens here long ago.. would have been a useful feature 2011-02-09 08:05 wpwrak: yeah.. maybe they do not have time to talk :) 2011-02-09 08:06 kyak: maybe send wolfgang a patch ? ideally not just a patch for the ever growing to do list ;-) 2011-02-09 08:09 imagines wolfgang's work environment. some small dark room, a simple table, a laptop, a lamp. this is where all his work is. the room has door to the rest of the apartment, also small and austere. and another door. the other door leads to a multistory complex of breathtaking technology. like the "plant" in "forbidden planet". that's the storage system where he keeps the to do list. 2011-02-09 08:09 wpwrak: i could do this myself, it's not that hard. Only need access to the bot :) or maybe a separate bot, to live on fidelio 2011-02-09 08:10 kyak: you should ask wolfgang then. he's quite open with giving access to things 2011-02-09 08:13 wpwrak: sure, 2011-02-09 08:14 wolfspraul: what do you think about having a stats/seen bot on fidelio? 2011-02-09 08:28 grmbl. this is a week of tuesdays. monday, i felt as if it was already tuesday. today, i feel as if it should still be tuesday. 2011-02-09 08:31 hm.. i was about to sat that it IS tuesday today! 2011-02-09 08:31 *to say 2011-02-09 08:31 ;-)) 2011-02-09 08:45 kyak: I'm not a friend of bots, but you surely can do it yourself, if you like 2011-02-09 08:45 email me your public key and I get you root access on the server 2011-02-09 08:46 after that, if you make configuration changes to eggdrop, please update the server_setup document 2011-02-09 08:46 wolfspraul: if it is fidelio (build host), i'm already there 2011-02-09 08:46 you can also tell me what you did and I update it, if the formatting is unusual for you 2011-02-09 08:46 I don't know what you plan exactly, but I hope you can just configure the existing eggdrop to do this as well 2011-02-09 08:46 it might be as easy as a few lines in the config file 2011-02-09 08:46 fidelio is a pure 'cache' buildhost type machine, no backup 2011-02-09 08:47 if the modules are isntalled already, then yes, it's the matter of config files 2011-02-09 08:47 all of the active and data generating (i.e. backed up) stuff is running on turandot 2011-02-09 08:47 fidelio just to offload some load, schhist, buildhost, etc. 2011-02-09 08:48 ok then, i'll send you the pub key and document the changes 2011-02-09 08:48 ok if your key is on fidelio, I can just copy it over 2011-02-09 08:48 well I have it already, let me check... 2011-02-09 08:48 yes, this would work ,too 2011-02-09 08:48 (copying the key from fidelio) 2011-02-09 08:49 ok try turandot.qi-hardware.com 2011-02-09 08:50 the current eggdrop setup is documented here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_setup#eggdrop 2011-02-09 08:50 sebastien may have made some changes to log #milkymist, without updating the server setup document 2011-02-09 08:50 I'm quite radical with this kind of changes - next time I get to it it will be reverted to the state of the document 2011-02-09 08:50 :-) 2011-02-09 08:51 I have managed servers far too long to accept server setups where even 1 tiny bit of configuration setting is not documented. 2011-02-09 08:51 in other words - if you run into some config that is not documented like that, don't hesitate to revert to the documentation 2011-02-09 08:51 the documentation is right 2011-02-09 08:51 when you are done, either you or me can update the doc 2011-02-09 08:51 to avoid that next time I upgrade something, your changes are lost 2011-02-09 08:52 wolfspraul: i'm there :) 2011-02-09 08:53 ok, got your point about documenting 2011-02-09 08:53 (to be nice, I will try to update the documentation and not rip out stuff done by others without documentation on purpose. but my patience in understanding undocumented stuff is limited) 2011-02-09 08:54 if it's still in use, whoever did it will speak up fairly quickly, and then it can be redone and documented properly as well :-) 2011-02-09 08:54 sure, sure :) 2011-02-09 08:54 btw, i think i will follow the same path next time i reinstall my server 2011-02-09 08:55 I've tried to use automated ways like a diff from the installed baseline. 2011-02-09 08:55 but mostly a simple text file is by far the best way to document what was installed, why this or that setting was changed, etc. 2011-02-09 08:56 the only downside is that it requires some discipline in keeping the real server and the text file in sync 2011-02-09 08:56 currently, i use rpm facilities for that.. it can track changed configuration files 2011-02-09 08:56 sure, that is also good 2011-02-09 08:56 it could make the documentation shorter 2011-02-09 08:56 i've been using SVN for managing server configs. 2011-02-09 08:57 one Makefile w/ 'make install' to update the system config to the version in the SVN dir 2011-02-09 08:57 there you go, another option :-) 2011-02-09 08:57 makes it easy to test changes: just install the config locally and test 2011-02-09 08:57 many subdirs, for different programs etc.  so I  can partially install updated stuff 2011-02-09 08:58 plus: SVN log replaces all your other documentation :) 2011-02-09 08:58 pretty good, yes 2011-02-09 08:58 and... you easily see what's important.  i hate having to grep or search through /etc/ to find out what parts are non-standard 2011-02-09 09:02 wolfspraul: ok, the gseen/stats modules are not there, will have to build them manually 2011-02-09 09:04 hmm, really not there? 2011-02-09 09:04 it's a standard debian eggdrop package, no? 2011-02-09 09:04 maybe just install a few tcl files? 2011-02-09 09:06 nah, these are third party modules 2011-02-09 09:06 don't worry, i'll handle it :) 2011-02-09 09:16 ha, since you are near there, can you also add a capability for the bot to maintain a list of nicks that are not logged? 2011-02-09 09:16 and a way to query the bot for the list? 2011-02-09 09:16 or maybe if that's not safe at least every nick should be able to query its own logging status privately, and enable/disable 2011-02-09 09:17 I would go for an opt-out model, but if someone doesn't like the logging they can send a message to the bot and exclude themselves. 2011-02-09 09:22 this could make logs useless at all 2011-02-09 09:23 like some people could be speaking with themselves :) 2011-02-09 09:23 or the other way around, the missing messages could be reversed-engineered 2011-02-09 09:23 in fact, i have some experience with eggdrops/tcl, so if you think about some cool things, it is possible to do that 2011-02-09 09:25 it's totally up to you 2011-02-09 09:25 let's start with stats/seen thing 2011-02-09 10:03 kyak: oh, yeah - indeed 2011-02-09 10:04 kyak: however that's the way to do it then 2011-02-09 10:04 kyak: (referring to the changes to qstardict you made) 2011-02-09 10:08 mirko: forgive me, which of the two mirkos are you? ;) 2011-02-09 10:10 rjeffries: the other one ;-) 2011-02-09 10:11 I knew someone whould be a SMARTASS 2011-02-09 10:11 wpwrak you NEVER dissapoint 2011-02-09 10:17 is there now a ~single~ document of UBB PCB fab specs one might send to a pcfab "consultant?" 2011-02-09 10:21 ask tuxbrain ;-) 2011-02-09 10:21 zrafa: i really want to see the gui concept this phd stunend have in mind 2011-02-09 10:21 I had just send the gerber , the measures, the edge and the drill file 2011-02-09 10:22 tuxbrain: did you also specify the board material, thickness, and surface finish ? particularly the thickness is important 2011-02-09 10:22 (0.8 mm) 2011-02-09 10:22 yes 2011-02-09 10:23 zrafa: actually i know some people from sugar labs, i wonder if he is linked or aware of this kind of sofware projects related to learning process, i really want hear his comments about it 2011-02-09 10:23 rjeffries: if you want to send a lot of stuff, you'd send the "Industrially producing UBB" section. maybe remove things that are clearly background, like the disclaimer. 2011-02-09 10:23 rjeffries: (plus the drill file) 2011-02-09 10:25 rjeffries: if you want to send something a pcb fab can use directly, without the consultant making detail decisions for you, you'd read through the mail and process the decisions as they are outlined. then either pass them on, or just prepare an answer and wait if they need one. 2011-02-09 10:25 zrafa: i agree bc and play music is not the _real_world_ use case 2011-02-09 10:26 rjeffries: wait and see has the benefit that you won't over-specify the board, possibly requesting details you don't actually care about but that make it harder to produce it 2011-02-09 10:26 tuxbrain: (board thickness) perfect 2011-02-09 10:27 is tuxbrain awake? I'll be damned. ;) 2011-02-09 10:28 tuxbarin, a serious question, sir: if you produce UBB, and sell in europe for price X (tbd) 2011-02-09 10:28 how hard will it be to ship to USA? 2011-02-09 10:29 I bet the shipping cost will not compesate unless you want some big qty 2011-02-09 10:29 but we will find out if you wish I must move 2011-02-09 10:30 go 2011-02-09 10:31 I recently had good luck on mail foorm USA to Sweden 2011-02-09 10:31 cheap and fast 2011-02-09 10:32 rjeffries: is the idea for your "pcb fab consultant" to choose the fab and communicate with them ? or to advise you ? or do you mean that the "consultant" is actually the fab's person who accepts new orders ? 2011-02-09 10:32 tuxbrain I look forward to you producing UBB. prolly will be able to purchase in quantity from Span and make available to my peeps 2011-02-09 10:33 rjeffries: for the quanitities you need for a reasonable price point, shipping shouldn't be such a big deal. after all, people order prototype pcbs in china. 2011-02-09 10:33 wpwrak "consultant" was a big word for a simple idea. a friend who has designed a VDSL2 box for 2011-02-09 10:34 rjeffries: "consultant" ah, okay. just send him the two mails then and tell him to skip all the stuff at the top of the first mail 2011-02-09 10:34 knows a guy who has intimate knowledge of pcb fab. since I have cursory knowledge only 2011-02-09 10:34 rjeffries: (or read it only if he's got time to kill ;-) 2011-02-09 10:34 I hope that as a friend he will give me a freebie 15 minutes of advice 2011-02-09 10:35 I will start out with only teling him the helicopter view 2011-02-09 10:35 size of pcb 2011-02-09 10:35 number of layers 2011-02-09 10:35 thickness 2011-02-09 10:35 critical dimensions 2011-02-09 10:35 number if vias 2011-02-09 10:35 finish 2011-02-09 10:35 rjeffries: what is is :) 2011-02-09 10:36 not sure what that means sorry. (I am serious) 2011-02-09 10:36 rjeffries: try filling the quote form at batchpcb.com later take care of details 2011-02-09 10:37 rjeffries: that it's a little board that goes into those receptacles that are marketed as "microsd card holders" 2011-02-09 10:37 kristianpaul: batchpcb only seem to do 1.6 mm boards 2011-02-09 10:37 rjeffries: no need to know what means just copy and paste values 2011-02-09 10:37 wpwrak: ouch 2011-02-09 10:37 kristianpaul I actually do know what most of it means, but this is not my area of expertise 2011-02-09 10:38 I am mainly a wanker ;) 2011-02-09 10:38 I'll make a few calls/emails today 2011-02-09 10:39 just give values and pay that all what they care about you as a customer 2011-02-09 10:39 claim later ! 2011-02-09 10:39 wonders what that "career" ladder wuold be - wanker, fucker, pimp ? :) 2011-02-09 10:43 wpwrak part oof carer requires being a PITA to bright creative visionary risk-takers like wolfsproul 2011-02-09 10:44 I hav eexhausted that phase, it takes too much of my LIMITED mental energy. ;) 2011-02-09 10:45 hwo old are you then? 2011-02-09 10:45 kristianpaul: they are wanting to replace a machine which does not do anything :P.. so they are not designing a GUI for users 2011-02-09 10:45 (sorry for asking personal info) 2011-02-09 10:45 zrafa: gui -> buttons? 2011-02-09 10:45 kristianpaul: they just need a machine which does the same than before.. (the before machine just play words, and records sound) 2011-02-09 10:45 kristianpaul: yes 2011-02-09 10:45 zrafa: is not that tooo expreme ? 2011-02-09 10:45 3 buttons 2011-02-09 10:46 exTreme* 2011-02-09 10:46 kristianpaul: well, of course. If they are going to use the nn then they want to use the screen at least (he told me) 2011-02-09 10:46 kristianpaul: previous machines does not have screen 2011-02-09 10:46 zrafa: phewww 2011-02-09 10:46 kristiuanpaul was question for me? 2011-02-09 10:46 rjeffries: yes 2011-02-09 10:46 I am (are you sitting down)??? 2011-02-09 10:47 yes 2011-02-09 10:47 old enough to be either your father or grandfather. how old are you sir? 2011-02-09 10:47 wow 2011-02-09 10:47 well, i'm 23 2011-02-09 10:48 if I spound young, you have given me a GREAT comliment 2011-02-09 10:48 you do, 2011-02-09 10:48 in another 20 years you will be the age of my son. ;) 2011-02-09 10:49 I suspect (with high degree of certantity) I am the LEAST young person who follows the qi-hardware community 2011-02-09 10:49 kristianpaul, you j=have mad emy day. I am serious. yes I am playful, but it hides a serious level 2011-02-09 10:49 s/made emy/made my/ 2011-02-09 10:50 zrafa: ah thats the machine to record/play sound?, i remenber  now from #jlime before 2011-02-09 10:50 rjeffries: You own a Ben right? 2011-02-09 10:50 I suggest wolfsproul write new rules that nobody under og, 40 yrs of age is allowed to participate 2011-02-09 10:51 kristianpaul now you as a SENSITIVE question 2011-02-09 10:51 huh? 2011-02-09 10:51 no, I do not personally own a Ben. a close friend bought one because I showed it] 2011-02-09 10:51 to our linus users group 2011-02-09 10:51 I can use his when if I need to 2011-02-09 10:52 but I will buy at some point 2011-02-09 10:52 I am a person who is NOT the deep hacker Ben appeals (mainly) to 2011-02-09 10:52 "linus user group" :) 2011-02-09 10:52 I have waited for software stability and functionalityu 2011-02-09 10:52 s/linus/Linux  I make many typos, I confess 2011-02-09 10:53 larsc: ;) 2011-02-09 10:53 I have offered a group buy to my friends, too soon to see. only two people say yes so far 2011-02-09 10:53 rjeffries: (age of consent for qi-hw at 40) i don't see wolfgang do this for a while :) 2011-02-09 10:54 rjeffries: you shoukd buy one or own it not for a while, you feed back will be wellcome 2011-02-09 10:54 I figured wolfsproul at 30 something 2011-02-09 10:54 rjeffries: as you seems to care in sofware end user side isnt? 2011-02-09 10:54 rjeffries: which would make it a self-excluding move :) 2011-02-09 10:55 kristianpaul I am close to buying one that is why I attemp to organize a group buy 2011-02-09 10:55 rjeffries: are you in the USA? 2011-02-09 10:55 kristianpaul I care about software yes. bt I have a passion for sensors/actuators etc and see Ben as a cool little "main node" for such a system 2011-02-09 10:56 rjeffries: if, already talked with djbclark ? freedom-included? 2011-02-09 10:56 yes live in California USA 2011-02-09 10:56 rjeffries: do you have an arduino? 2011-02-09 10:57 I know of djbclark. at one point he was going to become distributor (sorta kinda) for sharism 2011-02-09 10:57 I do not know if he did 2011-02-09 10:57 I have easy access to arduino 2011-02-09 10:58 do not own yet 2011-02-09 10:58 hmm 2011-02-09 10:58 by the way I am a software guy sorta kinda who loves hardware but is not an EE 2011-02-09 10:59 are you really interested in own something. you said you like sensors/actuators but you dint have even an arduino? 2011-02-09 10:59 Ben software is now getting ti a level of maturity that I will invest $125 (with shipping) 2011-02-09 10:59 wow ! 2011-02-09 10:59 goood :) 2011-02-09 11:00 rjeffries: Mirko Vogt :) 2011-02-09 11:00 kristianpaul God bless you, but i do not need to defend what I like or do. I have a wide range of activities. I write a book, I publish a newsletter, I am an avide photographer I even have a REAL darkroom (not used much but now and then) 2011-02-09 11:01 hello Mr Vogt, You have ben missed on the qi list. By me. Nobody else even noticed you had dissapeared. [smile] 2011-02-09 11:02 no I also have not ordered a Milkymist. I will someday. not now. ;) It is a very excitity project 2011-02-09 11:03 rjeffries: yeah, i have been quite busy an didn't follow the list regularly :/ 2011-02-09 11:03 s/excitity/exciting 2011-02-09 11:03 ok tell us when you got your Ben, i really want read your comments when having it around, not just borrow ;-) 2011-02-09 11:03 rjeffries: will do so in the evening, after finishing my post about the rfm12 <-> NN stuff 2011-02-09 11:03 mirko, I was kidding. understood. 2011-02-09 11:04 mirko: rfm12 !! :D 2011-02-09 11:04 oh yes wolfsproul did mention you had onebles and were playing with HopeRF of his Frankenca 2011-02-09 11:04 appetizer: https://foo.mirko.in/nanonote_rfm12.jpg :) 2011-02-09 11:05 controlling radio sockets 2011-02-09 11:05 s/Frankenca/Franken-cables/  (8:10 to cable done as "street job" 2011-02-09 11:05 dot in  .in is .... India? what area? 2011-02-09 11:06 rjeffries: yeah, india - sth. available  as mirko.TLD was difficult to get :) 2011-02-09 11:06 my dns doesn't seem to resolve that hostname 2011-02-09 11:06 it worked for me but giot warning abut untrusted site certificate 2011-02-09 11:07 what an idiot I am. .in does not mean YOU live in India. I think you live in Europe. 2011-02-09 11:07 mirko: nice :) no antenna ? 2011-02-09 11:07 https://130.133.110.88/rfm12_microsd.jpg / https://130.133.110.88/nanonote_rfm12.jpg 2011-02-09 11:07 wpwrak: soldered in onto the back of the board 2011-02-09 11:08 mirko: aah ! how far does it go ? 2011-02-09 11:09 wpwrak: it's just for testing - not optimized for best transfer 2011-02-09 11:09 wpwrak: works in my room so far, however if you use a lambda/2 antenna you get quite more out of it 2011-02-09 11:09 Mirko, that is a thing of beauty. more or less. ;) 2011-02-09 11:09 wpwrak: but that's 17cm which i didn't wanna take with me all the time moving around 2011-02-09 11:10 so mirko do you already have it talking to light switches etc? 2011-02-09 11:10 rjeffries: yep 2011-02-09 11:10 rjeffries: more or less finished :) 2011-02-09 11:11 COOL BEANS 2011-02-09 11:11 will write a summary / post about it 2011-02-09 11:11 and publish it in the evening 2011-02-09 11:11 with all the urls to the driver module / userspace software / uis i wrote 2011-02-09 11:12 Now we need to get this info to Jean Paul at JeeLabs he has a LOT of boards that will be interesting 2011-02-09 11:12 mirko: (room without a proper antenna) that's a good start 2011-02-09 11:12 also he can promote Ben as a central point for his stuff. 2011-02-09 11:12 THAT is why I have been urging that Tcl be wel supported 2011-02-09 11:13 be is a cool dude. I have exchanged emails with him several times 2011-02-09 11:14 Jean-Claude Wippler  JeeLabs  jcw@equi4.com Libes in Houten, a village near Utrecht in the middle of the Netherlands, 2011-02-09 11:14 wpwrak: mirko also as kernel patches for spi support on the mmc pins, so i guess that should be a good start for the uart board 2011-02-09 11:14 I am not positive he uses HopeRF, maybe a competing radio 2011-02-09 11:14 wpwrak: it's just ASK, don't know how it behaves when transmitting via FM 2011-02-09 11:15 hey mirko 2011-02-09 11:15 hey roh :) 2011-02-09 11:16 need to grab some food now - didn't eat anything yet today :( - see ya later... 2011-02-09 11:17 larsc: very good. does it handle handover from the mmc driver, too ? 2011-02-09 11:17 i don't think so 2011-02-09 11:17 wpwrak: not yet, but shouldn't be too difficult 2011-02-09 11:17 you can either bind the mmc or the spi driver 2011-02-09 11:17 larsc: i found some examples 2011-02-09 11:18 larsc: which act as wrappers 2011-02-09 11:18 they bind to the pins, but handle different devices 2011-02-09 11:18 anyway, i'm off for the next half an hour... 2011-02-09 11:34 rjeffries: and are you telling that tcl does not work? 2011-02-09 11:48 zarfa I have asked on list (I do not have a Ben) and did not get a solid answer 2011-02-09 11:51 zrafa, rjeffries: what's the problenm with tcl?  you mean tcl on nanonote? 2011-02-09 11:51 s/zrafa/zarfa/ 2011-02-09 12:00 those little piezos are amazing... i'm sending half a watt into one, and it doesn't break and makes a nice vibration 2011-02-09 12:00 mirko: no problem for me to do it in qt apps Makefiles.. i just don't understand why some qt apps need it, and some don;t 2011-02-09 12:00 guess it depends on their .pro files... 2011-02-09 12:00 interesting to notice that it handles low frequencies pretty well, e.g. you could get better bass in a laptop using them 2011-02-09 12:05 (that's some 200 volts p/p...) 2011-02-09 12:09 what do you need that piezos, generate sound? 2011-02-09 12:10 actuate a tuning rod into a DRO to modulate its frequency 2011-02-09 12:11 but i'm also happily surprised with the sound quality you get by pressing said piezo into a hard and large surface 2011-02-09 12:12 i'm using my computer soundcard to generate the waveforms, which then feeds a computer speaker amplifier with the speaker replaced with the piezo and a power supply transformer mounted backwards to adapt the impedance a bit (and step up the voltage) 2011-02-09 12:12 so I can easily play music as well 2011-02-09 12:14 the DRO thingy is part of a cheap doppler radar module (www.edparadis.com/radar)  and I want to see what I can do with it 2011-02-09 12:15 ideally http://www.mit.edu/~gr20603/Dr.%20Gregory%20L.%20Charvat%20Projects/$240%20High%20Res%20Rail%20SAR.html but I don't know if I can get this far 2011-02-09 12:16 probably not :) 2011-02-09 12:16 at least by staying under 50E, radar module included, and simple manipulations 2011-02-09 12:17 hmm ... that sound system would be like in some 1970 sci-fi movies then. alien planet. mysterious crystals everywhere. 2011-02-09 12:20 oh well :) 2011-02-09 12:20 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dGNaxre-GAo/S_FS45Vb7wI/AAAAAAAAAGk/J-J9LWpTEq8/s1600/piezo.jpg 2011-02-09 12:20 those aren't unusual, are they? 2011-02-09 12:21 oh, pretty standard indeed 2011-02-09 12:21 yup. amazing they handle 100 volts 2011-02-09 12:22 and I don't know the limit, my amplifier saturates before the piezo breaks... 2011-02-09 12:23 with 100 V, arcing becomes a possibility ... 2011-02-09 12:23 yeah, but apparently they don't arc 2011-02-09 12:24 otoh there is the complete layer of ceramic which is half a millimeter thick between the electrodes 2011-02-09 12:24 so it was worth testing 2011-02-09 12:26 0.5 mm should be plenty of separation for 100 V. that is, as long as the ceramic mixture doesn't arc much better than air. 2011-02-09 12:36 kyak: OpenWrt passed env variables to all C/C++ sources since they are generic 2011-02-09 12:36 kyak: qmake however does use some in a different manner (as e.g. AR) 2011-02-09 12:36 so i renamed them all to TARGET_* to avoid further confusion 2011-02-09 12:37 and tell qmake it should explicitly use stuff defined by TARGET_* 2011-02-09 12:37 hello 2011-02-09 12:38 my dingoo resumed just fine 2011-02-09 12:38 after a ~20h suspend 2011-02-09 12:38 mirko: ok then 2011-02-09 12:38 so apparently, we don't have that bug :p 2011-02-09 12:39 mirko: kyak: if you use the qmake that's part of the staging_dir_host, shouldn't all variables be set up correctly? 2011-02-09 12:40 i.e. qmake remembers the settings that it got when cross-version of Qt itself was compiled 2011-02-09 12:40 dvdk: they should, kyak however is doing some stuff manually instead of using qmake.mk of OpenWrt 2011-02-09 12:40 kyak: any reason btw? 2011-02-09 12:41 kyak: best case is doing so as simple as it's done in the NanoMap Makefile 2011-02-09 12:42 define Build/Configure 2011-02-09 12:42 »···$(call Build/Configure/Qmake,nanomap) 2011-02-09 12:42 endef 2011-02-09 12:42 which creates a Makefile from nanomap.pro inside the src dir 2011-02-09 12:42 mirko: didn't even know openwrt had qmake support. 2011-02-09 12:43 mirko: you can check the Makefile, i call the Qmake 2011-02-09 12:43 however, not all paths are exported correctly 2011-02-09 12:43 or exported at all 2011-02-09 12:44 anyway, i found these workaround to work 2011-02-09 12:44 yeah, spend quite some time rgrepp'ing over the openwrt .mk files last time I tried to port a cmake project.  strange that i didn't hit the Qmake.mk at that time 2011-02-09 12:44 kyak: we should try to make it generic i think 2011-02-09 12:44 mirko: definitely we should 2011-02-09 12:44 speaking of piezos: I used to work at a p;ace that made areally  range of piezo devices. including the stuff used in submarines to locate various things such as other submarines 2011-02-09 12:44 every change which is an improvement and does not break any other qt project i commit into OpenWrt immediatly 2011-02-09 12:45 the whole area of transducers is fascinating. manufacturing process is almost black magic 2011-02-09 12:47 other piezo uses is the coming diy reprap inkjet tech http://reprap.org/wiki/Reprappable-inkjet 2011-02-09 12:47 mirko: kyak: any objections against adding a cmake.mk to openwrt/include, then.  could simplify the plplot/Makefile quite a lot.  also i have some more cmake based projects on my todo list 2011-02-09 12:47 Ayla: good for youu ! 2011-02-09 12:47 bad for us... 2011-02-09 12:48 kristianpaul: well, maybe it demonstrates that it is not a hardware bug 2011-02-09 12:48 dvdk: cmake.mk is already backported to backfire.. just waiting for xiangfu or someone else to merge it into our branch 2011-02-09 12:48 does it occur every time? Maybe I was just lucky 2011-02-09 12:48 need the git super powers for that 2011-02-09 12:48 dvdk: if it works i'd like to commit it to OpenWrt upstream 2011-02-09 12:48 kyak: ok, then all the headaches were for nothing :) 2011-02-09 12:48 so we reduce the diff between OpenWrt and the qi-branch 2011-02-09 12:48 mirko: is already commited 2011-02-09 12:48 Ayla: still not demostrate as dingux have different IC 2011-02-09 12:49 kyak: i meant the cmake stuff 2011-02-09 12:49 Ayla: but same kernel  ! 2011-02-09 12:49 so.. 2011-02-09 12:49 seems to be hw bug... 2011-02-09 12:49 it's not the same kernel 2011-02-09 12:49 from our side 2011-02-09 12:49 and the nanonote is not jz4740 based? 2011-02-09 12:49 kyak: oh, sry - overread... 2011-02-09 12:49 https://dev.openwrt.org/changeset/25265 2011-02-09 12:49 here it is 2011-02-09 12:49 wasn't aware of any cmake.mk either 2011-02-09 12:49 and we can get it right away 2011-02-09 12:49 Ayla does dingoo have a microSD slot a.k.a 8:10 in Ben-talk 2011-02-09 12:50 4720 Ayla 2011-02-09 12:50 kykyak: mirko: ok 'll try it out during the next sw porting timeslice 2011-02-09 12:50 rjeffries_: ehrmm, sorry? 2011-02-09 12:50 gotta go - bye 2011-02-09 12:50 Ayla I assume you hav eth Dingo ?? 2011-02-09 12:50 yes 2011-02-09 12:50 Ayla: what is different in your kernel? you dont follow upstream? 2011-02-09 12:51 what interfaces does it have? is there a microSD slot like Ben 2011-02-09 12:51 for most of the drivers, we do 2011-02-09 12:51 and it's a miniSD slot 2011-02-09 12:51 rjeffries_: if I understand it correctly, piezos are also used for moving the probe in tunelling microscopes 2011-02-09 12:51 amazing they can get so precise 2011-02-09 12:52 and still relatively cheap (only hundreds of euros for a suitable actuator) 2011-02-09 12:52 lekernel piezos are very widly used. Ultrasound, and also cheap BBQ lighters 2011-02-09 12:52 btw, thanks to David and his awesome job with svgalib, look what a nice app we now got: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Applications#links 2011-02-09 12:53 http://www.e-basteln.de/index_m.htm and others 2011-02-09 12:53 I got to see the ceramic factory that made a wide range of piezo based devices. it was next door to my office 2011-02-09 12:53 kyak: cool, so this is svgalib based? 2011-02-09 12:53 which "David" is this pls? 2011-02-09 12:54 already had dillo or sth similar on my todo list.  so that won't be neccessary any more 2011-02-09 12:54 netsurf sounded interesting 2011-02-09 12:55 kyak: thats links?? wowow 2011-02-09 12:55 rjeffries_: david k. 2011-02-09 12:55 finally html on the nanonote ! 2011-02-09 12:55 yup, it's svga-based links2 2011-02-09 12:55 i.e. me 2011-02-09 12:55 and working hell good 2011-02-09 12:55 kristianpaul: this is the opendingux kernel: https://github.com/mthuurne/opendingux-kernel 2011-02-09 12:55 it's very similar to qi-kernel, but not exactly the same 2011-02-09 12:57 [commit] kyak: links2: add gmenu2x icon http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b891feb 2011-02-09 12:57 I assume one or more of you guys are fluent in grep or awk? 2011-02-09 12:58 don't everyone raise your hands all at same time 2011-02-09 12:58 ;) 2011-02-09 12:59 has written lengthly sed scripts 2011-02-09 12:59 rjeffries_: so that should mostly translate to grep 2011-02-09 12:59 dvdk indeed 2011-02-09 13:00 nice. 2011-02-09 13:00 !ping 2011-02-09 13:00 hides 2011-02-09 13:00 ok, it haz stats/gseen noqw 2011-02-09 13:01 lol 2011-02-09 13:01 dvdk I am NOt flunet and am not at this moment using Linux. I know I am an EVIL man 2011-02-09 13:01 !google nanonote 2011-02-09 13:01 :p 2011-02-09 13:02 dvdk accepting that sad fact, would yoy hack a quick script and run this log through it and only print lines conatining http: or https: so I can find links easily 2011-02-09 13:02 kyak: what else it can do now? 2011-02-09 13:03 rjeffries_: you mean 'grep 'http:\|https:' ? 2011-02-09 13:03 qi-bot? I thought wolfspraul was asleep for sure 2011-02-09 13:03 kristianpaul: nothing else :) 2011-02-09 13:03 whatever I do not have grep avail right now and need to chase down links in this long log 2011-02-09 13:04 !cook 2011-02-09 13:04 :-P 2011-02-09 13:04 dvdl PLEASE do not tell anybody that at this moment I am using a Vista lappie I would be so embarassed 2011-02-09 13:05 and wolfspraul may permanently ban me, I dunno 2011-02-09 13:05 rjeffries_: there's a cure: install cygwin :) 2011-02-09 13:05 jaja ... u r using Vista .... 2011-02-09 13:05 !top1000 2011-02-09 13:05 jaja 2011-02-09 13:06 I have other wasy Vbox with Ubuntu and it dual boots Ubuntu so if nobody will take 30 sec to do this favor I will do it later 2011-02-09 13:06 wpwrak: if you are not seeing yourself in top10, you can use !top20 :) 2011-02-09 13:06 top 10 words or niicks? 2011-02-09 13:06 words 2011-02-09 13:06 can i avoid nicks? 2011-02-09 13:06 s/i/it 2011-02-09 13:06 what do you mean? 2011-02-09 13:06 !top50 2011-02-09 13:06 Mauro Vista is not the horrible OS everyone assumes but in Microsoft land Wui 7 is far better 2011-02-09 13:07 kyak: the s/foo/bar/ is missing ! :) 2011-02-09 13:07 almost ! ;-) 2011-02-09 13:07 jajaj 2011-02-09 13:07 wpwrak is #1 in smileys 2011-02-09 13:07 oh dear ;-) 2011-02-09 13:07 xD 2011-02-09 13:07 does it recognize this one too ? (-:C 2011-02-09 13:08 kristianpaul: if you mean not counting stats for specific user, it can be done 2011-02-09 13:08 what is argumanet to Top20?? 2011-02-09 13:08 kyak: ah, i got , word count per nick, i tought was words in general top 2011-02-09 13:08 nice, it did ! 2011-02-09 13:08 wpwrak: set smileys ":-) :) ;) ;-) ^_^ :-D :-P :P =) ;D -)" 2011-02-09 13:08 this is the list :) 2011-02-09 13:09 so waht else can top20 ( ..) do? 2011-02-09 13:09 hmm, then some messages must have crossed 2011-02-09 13:09 the word count really seems to be a nick count, though 2011-02-09 13:09 a nick count? 2011-02-09 13:10 No more smiles for me 2011-02-09 13:10 test 2011-02-09 13:10 oh my god 2011-02-09 13:10 3. kyak(180) 3. kyak(182) - is word count! 2011-02-09 13:10 kyak: a) top10/20 only show nicks. b) top20 stops after 12. there are certainly more than 12 different words in use here 2011-02-09 13:10 kristianpaul: kristianpaul kristianpaul 2011-02-09 13:10 damn 2011-02-09 13:10 is word COUNT 2011-02-09 13:11 per nick 2011-02-09 13:11 ahh 2011-02-09 13:11 so confusing ;) 2011-02-09 13:11 12 nicks, others didn't speak yet :L) 2011-02-09 13:11 oooh. the number of words per nick ! now i get it 2011-02-09 13:11 that is totally AWEFUL 2011-02-09 13:11 i thought it was the frequency at which certain words appear on the channel 2011-02-09 13:11 wpwrak: me too 2011-02-09 13:11 no, not like this 2011-02-09 13:11 I assume scope is current log only? 2011-02-09 13:11 that will awesome (frequency at which certain words appear on the channel) 2011-02-09 13:12 livetime of current qi-bot process ? 2011-02-09 13:12 lifetime even 2011-02-09 13:12 kristianpaul: there is such thing. but it's cpu and memory intensive, so it's disabled 2011-02-09 13:12 kyak: oh yes please ;) poor server.. 2011-02-09 13:12 oh but we do not know how long qi-bot has been alive unless he reports 2011-02-09 13:12 kristianpaul: the ultimate goal is to burn all available system resources on such gimmicks ;-) 2011-02-09 13:13 how beefy is the server? just curious? 2011-02-09 13:13 rjeffries_: the assumption is, that qi-bot is always online :) 2011-02-09 13:13 i bet it even cant tun munin for it self ;P 2011-02-09 13:13 :p 2011-02-09 13:13 s/tun/run 2011-02-09 13:14 so I guess my dream would be that wolfspraul adds a gadegt to qi-bot that filters out links and shows them 2011-02-09 13:15 shows where? 2011-02-09 13:15 maybe output goes to a different log of links 2011-02-09 13:15 do you mean, it speaks the title? 2011-02-09 13:15 kyak: really is thattoo cpu intensive? may be i can be run once a day with the backlog? 2011-02-09 13:15 simply filter the irc log and only display lines that contain http: or https: 2011-02-09 13:16 rjeffries_: oh, I thought you were talking about the OS, sorry ... 2011-02-09 13:16 once a day yes not on demand! 2011-02-09 13:16 kristianpaul: ok, let's see how it works with that and then we see if word frequency stats should be enabled 2011-02-09 13:17 rjeffries_: http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/search?q=http 2011-02-09 13:17 kyak so that was there all along? 2011-02-09 13:18 rjeffries_: why don't you read the topic? 2011-02-09 13:18 holy crap. perfect just run it twice once pr http ahgain for https 2011-02-09 13:19 what topic kyak? I don not know what you are talking about O use smuxi as my client 2011-02-09 13:20 ok, you not IRC guy. the topic says: 2011-02-09 13:20 Copyleft hardware - time is on our side |  public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs | Welcome and  please ask your questions... 2011-02-09 13:49 note it said "last seen quitting #milkymist " 2011-02-09 13:51 !see Mauro_R 2011-02-09 13:52 kristianpaul: sure, it sits in #milkymist, too 2011-02-09 14:07 yes it is 2011-02-09 14:07 ir forgot that 2011-02-09 14:21 kyak: total surveillance :) 2011-02-09 14:28 hahaahaha 2011-02-09 14:29 heh 2011-02-09 14:30 wpwrak: s/qi-bot/qi-cop :) 2011-02-09 14:32 kyak: now we just have to hide it and we'll have our own little secret police :) 2011-02-09 14:33 rjeffries_: let's not forget jlime among the distros. it's probably the most polished in terms of end-user experience. 2011-02-09 14:34 rjeffries_: a better link for atusb schematics would be http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/atusb/pdf_atusb.pdf 2011-02-09 14:35 rjeffries_: that's the whole board, not just the USB side 2011-02-09 14:42 wpwrak. would you take my email, edit it then I can stand on your shoulders. 2011-02-09 14:42 I did not send to wolfspraul because he may not like what I am trying to do. 2011-02-09 14:43 I have already sent the email but will GLADY send a correcetd reworded even better more awesome email 2011-02-09 14:44 I do nt understand JLime. In general Ben shares with OpenMoko the :many distros" bessing and curse 2011-02-09 14:45 kyak: well in my old days of irc addict when I was young , the bot can give you special powers like kick and ban, I guess if qi-bot can do that but surelly ChanServ is the one that can do so 2011-02-09 14:45 rjeffries_: jlime is an openembedded derivate. originally for the hp jornada, but has since been ported to other portable devices, including the ben nanonote 2011-02-09 14:46 tuxbrain: sure bot can do these and many other things. For now it only has stats/seen powers :) 2011-02-09 14:46 rjeffries_: thanks to openembedded, it has about ten times as many packages as openwrt. (not all of them are truly useful, of course - some exist but are just too big) 2011-02-09 14:47 !help 2011-02-09 14:47 no list of commands? 2011-02-09 14:47 kyak: it could use an AI that detects when someone speaks badly about the bot and remembers it. then, sample the message timing in relation to message length. once you have a good correlation, wait for the moment just before a particularly long message would be sent. then kick :) 2011-02-09 14:48 !? 2011-02-09 14:48 wpwrak I had no idea re Jlime 2011-02-09 14:48 not the unix way either 2011-02-09 14:48 hahahaaha 2011-02-09 14:48 rjeffries_: zrafa did quite a lot of work to make it run nicely on the ben 2011-02-09 14:48 tuxbrain: yeah, perhaps some basic help should be shown... 2011-02-09 14:48 tuxbrain when will your UBB pcbs be finished? 2011-02-09 14:48 it's fun becaus eit's true 2011-02-09 14:49 rjeffries_: well first they have to be quoted :) 2011-02-09 14:49 what is a short answer to how OpenERt Jlime and Debian compare on Ben 2011-02-09 14:49 wpwrak: then we need to call it qi-bitch :) 2011-02-09 14:49 apples onions and potatos 2011-02-09 14:49 tivbrain I am just having a little fun. I thought you would have them done next week 2011-02-09 14:50 things are much too complex for simple comparisons 2011-02-09 14:50 rjeffries_: openwrt most compact, limited choice of packages. jlime large choice of packages. not sure how the two compare today in terms of user experience. jlime used to be far ahead but openwrt has tried to catch up. 2011-02-09 14:51 rjeffries_: debian seems to be more a proof of concept. probably would need some major effort to trim it down and make it run efficiently. i also don't know what user interface they have. 2011-02-09 14:51 that helps a lot 2011-02-09 14:52 don't hold your breath, you know in spain we take things a little bit more... relaxed... thing that is not quite fun sometimes but well at the end you get used to it 2011-02-09 14:53 I wish sharism could di a simple online survey to see how many Ben owners use which distro, with option of also saying their Ben is not in active use 2011-02-09 14:53 rjeffries_: jlime also has a very friendly cross-development environment, with the ability to install precompiled packages directly into the cross-development environment. not sure where openwrt is in this regard. 2011-02-09 14:53 and you are lucky that I'm from barcelona, quite north, the more south more relaxed 2011-02-09 14:53 tuxbrain it is almost time for my siesta right now. ;)) 2011-02-09 14:53 hahahaha :) lucky you man, happy nap 2011-02-09 14:53 how is the wine in your region tuxbrain 2011-02-09 14:54 tuxbrain I have not time for a siesta b ut it is a MOST EXCELLENT idea 2011-02-09 14:54 in the south, they still have bedpans, so they don't have to get out of bed just for urinating :) 2011-02-09 14:57 tuxbrain: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_setup#eggdrop - scroll down to "Public commmands". 2011-02-09 14:58 we have some quite good,  priorat I think is the best, but there are some good Penedes or Terra Alta  also you can see a more in deep analisys of catalonian wines here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_wine 2011-02-09 14:59 ... 2011-02-09 15:00 seems that we can keep the old stop lists for a bit longer :) 2011-02-09 15:00 heh :) 2011-02-09 15:01 wpwrak: rjeffries_4 more used word :) hehehe 2011-02-09 15:01 to the a of you is in it and i 2011-02-09 15:02 "you the more can that well" so yoda 2011-02-09 15:03 lol 2011-02-09 15:07 !words rjeffries 2011-02-09 15:08 sorry rjeffries_ only works with NN owners :P 2011-02-09 15:08 that is so damn funny. you are a genius 2011-02-09 15:12 stares at wpwrak 2011-02-09 15:13 ..and it's sleeping time 2011-02-09 15:15 hah ! :) 2011-02-09 15:15 wolfgang, lekernel, wpwrak, larsc, roh, kristianpaul, mirko, Ornotermes and sometimes B_Lizzard are genius , I'm just a spaniard with good wine, sun and better food  so sense of humor come easy :) 2011-02-09 15:16 conclusion wpwrak should invest a little more time in "phisical" world 2011-02-09 15:16 good wide, i dont know nothing about wines... :/ 2011-02-09 15:16 s?wide/wine 2011-02-09 15:17 i smell a bug :) 2011-02-09 15:19 ha ! 2011-02-09 15:20 bah. now it calls me an egomaniac 2011-02-09 15:22 lol 2011-02-09 15:25 bug indeed 2011-02-09 15:25 sooo I think is just configured to keep an eye on you wpwrak 2011-02-09 15:26 everything gets attributed to me 2011-02-09 15:26 ouch 2011-02-09 15:27 !exec /n paparazzi-bot 2011-02-09 15:27 test 2011-02-09 15:28 maybe it needs a bit of time 2011-02-09 15:28 see ? 2011-02-09 15:28 lol 2011-02-09 15:30 i give up 2011-02-09 15:30 burn the bot! 2011-02-09 15:30 heh 2011-02-09 15:32 villagers unite ! down with the evil machine ! 2011-02-09 15:32 I would like to see wolfgangs face when he reads the logs when he wakes up , lol 2011-02-09 15:36 tuxbrain: the best thing is that neither the commands now the responses show up in the public log, making it even more mysterious :) 2011-02-09 15:37 loooool 2011-02-09 15:38 !topword 2011-02-09 15:39 now being serious for a while, it should be better if command an replies only shown to the requester , isn't it? 2011-02-09 15:39 yeah 2011-02-09 15:39 i triedn by /msg but it dint reply 2011-02-09 15:39 tuxbrain: +1 2011-02-09 15:40 of course, everyone would still see the command ... 2011-02-09 15:40 /msg -Freenode qi-bot topwords #qi-hardware 2011-02-09 15:40 it works 2011-02-09 15:40 nice 2011-02-09 15:41 ah yes. nice. 2011-02-09 15:44 21:39 < wpwrak> ah yes. nice. 2011-02-09 15:44 irgh 2011-02-09 16:08 does not work for meL 12:39   /msg -Freenode qi-bot topwords #qi-hardware 2011-02-09 16:13 try just  /msg qi-bot topwords #qi-hardware 2011-02-09 16:24 http://soulu-sol.livejournal.com/33953.html 2011-02-09 16:24 my wife published photos of cases :) 2011-02-09 16:25 (russian text around) 2011-02-09 16:26 had some fun with GIMP: http://i.imgur.com/wFZwb.jpg 2011-02-09 16:26 Jay7: nice. i like the green one 2011-02-09 16:30 [commit] David Kühling: svgalib: fix mode detection (used to detect non-existent 24-bit modes) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/bc95471 2011-02-09 16:52 [commit] David Kühling: add icon for zgv http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/d5cef5b 2011-02-09 17:08 [commit] David Kühling: add icon for gnuplot http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/766824f 2011-02-09 17:09 huh, what's that: after updating I now get hundreds of errors a la "ERROR: please fix feeds/qipackages/*" for almost all packages. 2011-02-09 17:11 ok, solved: had only updated openwrt-packages.git, and not openwrt-xburst.git (have a custom feeds.conf that uses local openwrt-xburst.git checkout) 2011-02-09 17:47 steve|m: he, you could not resist :D 2011-02-09 17:48 hmm Qt, i forgot that one 2011-02-09 18:06 wpwrak: tuxbrain : which is the program you use to edit videos?.. (and where you put messages on videos) 2011-02-09 18:08 beatifull 4mins video of fosdem, waiting for non-comercial clause those no tight to a company in his blogs please promote it , I have asked (or annoyed) the author to know the licence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPh0lhL_Nx8 2011-02-09 18:08 milkymist presentation: http://blip.tv/file/4433721 (with some flickernoise walk-through near the end) 2011-02-09 18:08 (not the fosdem one) 2011-02-09 18:10 zrafa: I use Openshot, and prepare the subtitles directly on Inkscape, openshots have some templates but usually doesnt fit on what I want. 2011-02-09 18:10 "high performance javascript"... hahahahaha 2011-02-09 18:11 https://launchpad.net/openshot 2011-02-09 18:11 lekernel: you where filmed by fosdem at your conf? will be your fosdem speach aviable? 2011-02-09 18:12 yeah, I was filmed. I don't know when they release the videos 2011-02-09 18:12 my experience with nerd conferences is that they release them late because the pressure of the event just dropped 2011-02-09 18:13 haha, and the video ends with a BSoD :) 2011-02-09 18:13 so typical :) 2011-02-09 18:13 as if GNU/Linux never crashes :) 2011-02-09 18:14 at fosdem 2012 i'll ask that guy to use a picture of GCC crashing instead 2011-02-09 18:14 well any powered on sistem can fail... is matter on frequiency :P 2011-02-09 18:15 (atm, the gcc tree doesn't even compile for lm32 with a xgcc segfault, and I'm pretty pissed off about that) 2011-02-09 18:17 and also is not the same to hang a compile proccess that the whole system , but whatever nobody says linux is perfect, but there are systems less perfects by far :) 2011-02-09 18:19 tuxbrain: ah.. thanks.. let me check 2011-02-09 18:37 zrafa: i use kdenlive to edit videos 2011-02-09 19:21 [commit] Werner Almesberger: nanonote.patch: decrease extra delay from 100 to 20 us (sufficient and faster) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/0d6dddf 2011-02-09 19:24 wpwrak: great, thanks. I can not install any of them :P .. debian testing needs to fix some dependences before 2011-02-09 19:31 zrafa: :-( kdenlive installs without trouble on ubuntu ... 2011-02-09 19:48 wpwrak: yeah.. but because I use debian testing (which is useful because you never needs to do an upgrade between distros) it also has this kind of problems.. at some moments testing is not able to install some packages because those are being worked 2011-02-09 19:49 wpwrak: so using debian testing you are in the middle of latest latest version of every software and stable debian version. If I had debian stable of course everything would install, but I will miss some latest version of many packages 2011-02-09 19:50 that is why I choose debian testing, so I know I have always very new version of packages, still if sometimes there are problems (I just need to wait some days surely and all will work) 2011-02-09 19:52 no today gggrrr 2011-02-09 19:58 well, as long as they fix things quickly ... 2011-02-09 19:59 didn't they release recently? I suppose a lot of new stuff is flooding testing now 2011-02-09 20:55 "If you live on Mars and can't get a four layer board manufactured, Ubertooth Zero is a two layer alternative." 2011-02-09 20:56 http://ubertooth.sourceforge.net/hardware/build/ heh 2011-02-09 21:24 don't know if I am in the good channel, just saw the word "hardware", but I just wanna know the model of my motherboard to download the damn driver. I got many numbers, there is asus and intel 2011-02-09 21:24 well too much possibilities for me 2011-02-09 21:26 wrong channel sorry Ironicus 2011-02-09 21:27 but you can try asking on #electronics 2011-02-09 21:27 Is a topic most close to your needs i think 2011-02-09 21:27 ty 2011-02-09 21:27 s/most/more 2011-02-09 21:28 I wonder if this hardware questions are google fault? (may be qi-hardware is the top of searches about hardware now days ;-)) 2011-02-09 21:35 omfg: http://blog.tridgell.net/?p=141 2011-02-09 21:35 grr.. 2011-02-09 21:35 wasted almost an hour finding a msp430-gcc fault.. left-shifts > 12 fail, it only shifts 12 times 2011-02-09 21:42 larsc: do you have blog btw? 2011-02-09 21:45 not yet 2011-02-09 21:46 well i have one, but it's run by ghostwritters and its not about technical stuff or something 2011-02-09 21:48 my plan is to setup one when i'm done with my electrical engineering exams and have some more time 2011-02-09 21:58 k 2011-02-09 22:23 tadaa: http://nanl.de/blog/2011/02/ben-nanonote-able-to-control-radio-power-sockets/ :) 2011-02-09 22:24 going to bed now... good night folks 2011-02-09 22:30 g'nite