2011-02-07 00:20 gone too fast... 2011-02-07 00:58 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system add nanonote script files package http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/eeb3803 2011-02-07 01:14 Jay7: viric is not russian, though he speaks russian :) LunohoD, apparently, is from Russia :) 2011-02-07 01:15 if i remember correclty, there were 7-10 Bens sold in Russia, so we should seek for the rest of 4-7 guys :)_ 2011-02-07 02:02 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: add more boot option default value to fw_setenv_default http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/c9080ab 2011-02-07 02:02 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: u-boot add-more-boot-option http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e8eeb9d 2011-02-07 03:04 wolfspraul: not so shy ! ;-) "News item 2: we now also sell MilkyMist One boards directly from sharism. [...]" 2011-02-07 03:49 morning 2011-02-07 03:50 hehe.. yes, people are comparing NN with Zipit2 and choose second 2011-02-07 03:50 because (surprise) of wifi 2011-02-07 03:50 not sure about usb-host 2011-02-07 03:52 interesting, they look comparable 2011-02-07 03:54 howeverm it seems that they are far behind on the software side 2011-02-07 03:56 ugly design, too. lacks the all-black coolness of the ben :) 2011-02-07 03:57 but the hardware is really far ahead :) wifi (as you mentioned), expansion slot 2011-02-07 03:57 yes, looks like shit, too 2011-02-07 03:59 and... where is the price? 2011-02-07 04:00 ok, they also have prop. things there 2011-02-07 04:00 not comparable at all 2011-02-07 04:01 wolfspraul: hmm, pcbnew needs one more option: --exclude-board-edgesÂ Â for "plot" 2011-02-07 04:01 kyak: (price) google forÂ Â zipit z2 2011-02-07 04:02 ok, it's cheaper 2011-02-07 04:03 the price is indeed interesting, considering the sheer quantity of hardware they're packing. the ben is a much more integrated solution. well, it has a lot of expensive flash ... 2011-02-07 05:22 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ubb: cleaned up board for "production readiness" http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/7fba9a2 2011-02-07 05:46 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: straightened traces inside 8:10 card slot to reduce risk of shorts http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bb2894f 2011-02-07 06:23 wpwrak: ok got it (pcbnew param). need to see when I get to it. 2011-02-07 06:24 I haven't done anything yet on the kicad side since my announcement - not good :-) 2011-02-07 06:24 I mean the announcement on their list that I would work on upstreaming those patches... 2011-02-07 06:24 as I understand they are close to another release, maybe I uplevel after that 2011-02-07 06:42 wolfspraul: yeah, that may be a good time. let's hope "close to another release" won't be a condition that lasts for years :) 2011-02-07 07:23 morning Jay7 2011-02-07 07:27 ( zipit z2) put a GSM chip in the nano plus simcard, and a sofware to just connect to facebook and twitter, and you're done ! :p 2011-02-07 07:28 is cheap this device indeed 2011-02-07 07:40 kristianpaul: then you could directly use a MediaTek MT6235 as cpu :P 2011-02-07 07:45 hehe 2011-02-07 07:46 gsm layer1 inside the linux kernel - this would be awesome 2011-02-07 08:17 LUA BOOOTS !! 2011-02-07 08:19 wpwrak: do you remember people complaining about ubifs on nand broken after booting jlime or another system on SD? I found something related 2011-02-07 08:19 tuxbrain: now i want my congrats back !! ;-) 2011-02-07 08:20 kristianpaul: expired ;-)) 2011-02-07 08:20 now some proper blog post about this 2011-02-07 08:20 zrafa: lol 2011-02-07 08:20 kristianpaul: great stuff man btw :) 2011-02-07 08:21 now lets clean this mess 2011-02-07 08:21 and make a proper patch ? ha 2011-02-07 08:28 zrafa: (ubifs) aaah ? 2011-02-07 08:28 booo ;) 2011-02-07 08:29 wpwrak: ah.. you do not remember :) 2011-02-07 08:29 zrafa: yes yes, i do remember. i was one of them :) 2011-02-07 08:31 wpwrak: okey.. I am working with gamerunner distro for freerunner. It uses an old openmoko distro as base system. And this system tries to mount the freerunner jffs2 nand at boot time. My current system, qtmoko, uses ubifs, no jffs2. Well, after booting gamerunner it broke the ubifs on nand 2011-02-07 08:32 wpwrak: very related I would say. The really suck thing is why ubifs breaks after some system tries to mount it with another layout or trying a different fs? 2011-02-07 08:33 zrafa: maybe it's jffs2 that doesn't notice that this is ubifs and tries to do something funny with it 2011-02-07 08:33 zrafa: as in "of, this looks broken". let's fix some things. 2011-02-07 08:33 wpwrak: I am trying gamerunner in my freerunner from SD, similar like jlime on nanonote booting from uSD trying to mount nand 2011-02-07 08:34 wpwrak: yeah.. but what about the situation with nanonote?. ON this case jlime tries to mount the ubifs nand.. but because qi-openwrt uses a different layout jlime can not mount that ubifs, but it breaks it :) 2011-02-07 08:34 wpwrak: it is like.. "if I can not mount it I will break" :P 2011-02-07 08:35 zrafa: yes, that's a little odd. maybe ubifs has the same kind of destructive behaviour like jffs2 then 2011-02-07 08:35 disable jffs2 support in the kernel and thats it?? 2011-02-07 08:36 kristianpaul: he.. well, but that would not fix the problem.. just avoid it :) 2011-02-07 08:36 lets avoid jffs2 ;-) 2011-02-07 08:36 And see if the problem still there 2011-02-07 08:36 kristianpaul: and I do not need to disablle jffs2 in kernel.. that is some script at /etc/rc* who tries to mount the nand 2011-02-07 08:37 kristianpaul: I could comment out the line trying to mount all the things around 2011-02-07 08:37 if I want to avoid 2011-02-07 08:37 ah i see 2011-02-07 08:37 kristianpaul: but, anyway, I am not trying to avoid the problem. I would like to know what is happening 2011-02-07 08:37 sure 2011-02-07 08:41 it may well be that at least jffs2 will mount anything it is told to mount, and just treat anything that doesn't look right as defective 2011-02-07 10:10 phew. done. 2011-02-07 10:11 tuxbrain, rjeffries: all you'll ever wish to forget about UBB is about to hit the list :) 2011-02-07 10:26 hi wpwrak 2011-02-07 10:28 rjeffries: let's see who has the first boards - you or tuxbrain ;-) 2011-02-07 11:01 wow 2011-02-07 11:01 I think I;ll have a bronze statue of you created and place it on a pedestal in my yeard 2011-02-07 11:02 if nothing else... 2011-02-07 11:02 ;-) 2011-02-07 11:03 that's easy. for writing only 299 lines. other guys have to write a lot more before they get a statue :-) 2011-02-07 11:14 hm. boards? 2011-02-07 11:16 roh: UBBs 2011-02-07 11:16 just seens the mail... tldr; 2011-02-07 11:16 ;) 2011-02-07 11:18 roh: that's the nerd's equivalent of a government posting new laws in its gazette. you can always say later "but i wrote it here" ;-) 2011-02-07 11:23 wpwrak: well.. you know what 'tldr;' stands for? 2011-02-07 11:24 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tl%3Bdr 2011-02-07 11:24 yeah. 2011-02-07 11:24 also works gread as sidenote on paper 2011-02-07 11:25 wpwrak: write and blood actually 2011-02-07 11:26 kristianpaul: yeah, but one or the other is usually sufficient :) 2011-02-07 11:26 roh: you should become a teacher 2011-02-07 11:27 i dont critisise... its just too much text for breakfast.. need to read it kater 2011-02-07 11:27 eh later 2011-02-07 11:27 eehj. 2011-02-07 11:27 *grin* 2011-02-07 11:27 jaaja 2011-02-07 11:30 damn long 2011-02-07 11:35 wpwrak: Thats a nice copyleft plan let me tell you ! :-) 2011-02-07 11:37 copyleft plan ? 2011-02-07 11:38 yeah 2011-02-07 11:38 plans 2011-02-07 11:38 ** 2011-02-07 11:38 plans != plan ? 2011-02-07 11:39 sure. but what plan are you referring to ? or do you mean "plan" as in "guide" or "instructions" ? 2011-02-07 11:39 "copyleft plans and software for manufacturing" 2011-02-07 11:39 hmm 2011-02-07 11:40 plans a guide and preparatory instructions 2011-02-07 11:40 ah, more in the latter sense then. not "intention", "projection" :) 2011-02-07 11:40 a/as a 2011-02-07 13:54 wpwrak: thanks a lot for the acurated and extense information :) 2011-02-07 14:12 wpwrak: archieved to read your mail. nice idea 2011-02-07 14:12 just one problem: if all the stuff uses the '8:10' slot .. where should i store data? 2011-02-07 14:13 for me io-extensions dont make sense if they block the only place for mass-storage 2011-02-07 14:23 roh: use the nand? 2011-02-07 14:24 kristianpaul: laughable capacity 2011-02-07 14:24 wears out fast. not exchangeable 2011-02-07 14:25 if i would design a device now i would not add any flash chip if possible 2011-02-07 14:25 use the romloader, boot from sd. add 2 sdslots in total minimum. 2011-02-07 14:27 kristianpaul: also flash gets cheaper and bigger faster than you can develop. so if you plan your device with available chips now, they will be smaller than the cheap sdcards when you are in prodution and still cost you more than sdcards the same size 2011-02-07 14:29 12Gb nand ! 2011-02-07 14:30 800x600 touch display! 2011-02-07 14:30 UMTS !! 2011-02-07 14:30 :p 2011-02-07 14:30 for 35 bucks! 2011-02-07 14:30 no, for 3.5! 2011-02-07 14:32 (not exchangeable) are you beating current desoldering techniques?? 2011-02-07 14:34 kristianpaul: soldered flash is not user replaceable. 2011-02-07 14:34 hackers dont count at all (from a business pov) 2011-02-07 14:41 sure 2011-02-07 14:44 roh: I don't dislike the idea of dual 8:10 slot, also if both are accesible (as Openpandora has with SD) Nanonote can be used as 8:10 storage cards duplicator if you charge the SO in ram of course :) 2011-02-07 14:44 tuxbrain: one can be hidden behind the battery from my pov 2011-02-07 14:46 mmm this will "protect" the "system" card but I like more the idea of being accesible, then you have two slots to play with UBB things :P 2011-02-07 14:46 removing the rootfs sucks 2011-02-07 14:46 from a software view, also from a complexity view. 2011-02-07 14:46 also sd is _slow_ 2011-02-07 14:47 so copying lots of data on the run is bullshit in reality 2011-02-07 14:48 having to exchange cards at all to expand total useable storage already sucks.. flash is just too slow and small still. 2011-02-07 14:48 atleast for serious computers. 2011-02-07 14:48 (or to expensive, pick your choice) 2011-02-07 14:49 mmm so flash is no way and sd is slow... so what is the alternative? 2011-02-07 14:50 sd is slow? 2011-02-07 14:50 kristianpaul: yes. same as usb storage. 2011-02-07 14:50 usb 'thumbsticks' 2011-02-07 14:50 all crap with <20mbyte/sec write speed. 2011-02-07 14:51 tuxbrain: from my pov the next nanonote needs to be more like a sharp netwalker.. atleast the performance. 2011-02-07 14:52 anything else will stay 'fisherprice toys' 2011-02-07 14:52 what storage is using netwalker? 2011-02-07 14:52 >500mhz. atleast 1/4 gb ram, maybe some nor for a bootloader, but no soldered nand. 2011-02-07 14:52 dunno. i think some flash and a disk 2011-02-07 14:52 I agree with you is a beautiful machine 2011-02-07 14:53 I have one :) 2011-02-07 14:53 but damn expensive 2011-02-07 14:53 true. thats its problem. 2011-02-07 14:53 the point is: one can DO stuff with it. 2011-02-07 14:53 in the real world. not just some fantasy-env 2011-02-07 14:54 ah. no disk. sd external and 4gb nand. 2011-02-07 14:54 Is there going to be a next nanonote? 2011-02-07 14:54 well.. internal nand only gives one pain, and work. better add more ram for disk-cache to make the second sd fast enough to use 2011-02-07 14:54 methril has take a look at the insights , and his first though was it was a integration wet dream for any EE 2011-02-07 14:55 mstevens: at some point. 2011-02-07 14:55 ah. i am talking about the pc-z1, not the tablet crap 2011-02-07 14:56 but netwalker also use flash...is flash !=nand? 2011-02-07 14:56 yes me too 2011-02-07 14:56 remembers tuxbrain sold him a nanonote 2011-02-07 14:56 tuxbrain: yes it uses flash. i dont say copy it. its just an example ;) 2011-02-07 14:57 nand is one kind of flash 2011-02-07 14:57 ok clarified 2011-02-07 14:57 the 'bad kind' .. which everybody uses since its lower price and bigger size than other types of flash 2011-02-07 14:57 mstevens: and that is good or that is bad? :P 2011-02-07 14:57 tuxbrain: good! 2011-02-07 14:57 there is also nor, but its expensive and only available in small amounts a piece (few mbytes) 2011-02-07 15:08 roh: I agree with you than netwalkwer was a beautiful beast to wear in your pocket, but we also must face the following facts: 2011-02-07 15:08 a) We don't have sharp resources 2011-02-07 15:08 b) Netwalker has a lot of privative stuff (which has made the kernel not advance in mainline and his ubuntu has not evoluted since his release) 2011-02-07 15:08 c)Nanonote form factor is awesome and also it's keyboard compared with Netwalker (I think is one of his main flaws) 2011-02-07 15:08 d)I don't consider NN with 64 (or better 128)MB RAM , dual SD, 640x480 (or better a wide format) touchscreen,6LowPAN,GPS a toy at all , and when Harald Welte ends his Free GSM stack we can also add GPRS modem 2011-02-07 15:09 tuxbrain: a) b) sure. 2011-02-07 15:10 c) the nanonote multiple key suck (need diodes) 2011-02-07 15:11 diodes? 2011-02-07 15:11 diode-matrix. enables you to do a keyboard which is useable, not broken like in ben 2011-02-07 15:12 in ben it fails as soon as you press the 3rd key. 2011-02-07 15:12 have you a link of that kind of kbd? 2011-02-07 15:13 well.. google for keyboard matrix with diodes and without 2011-02-07 15:13 the current one doestn have diodes. so it can by definition not detect multiple keypresses at the same time without error 2011-02-07 15:14 ok :)Â Â understood 2011-02-07 15:16 also to add to d) usb host :) 2011-02-07 15:16 sure. i thought thats obvious 2011-02-07 15:25 roh: (data storage) nfs-over-cdc_net-over-usb ;-) 2011-02-07 15:26 usb is not intresting for me. 2011-02-07 15:26 roh: but i agree with you criticism if built-nand on all counts. i'd love to have a second 8:10 card slot and that's what i'd consider a "must have" feature for the ya 2011-02-07 15:26 besides temporary connecting 2011-02-07 15:30 ok then , seems that the "dual 8:10 on ya" lobby is growing 2011-02-07 15:30 lua is fast on the milkymist :-) 2011-02-07 15:31 roh: (kbd) you can detect 0, 1, 2, and > 2 keys. so just ignore anything that happens when you have > 2. 2011-02-07 15:31 kristianpaul: you achive to make it run on the board? awesome :) 2011-02-07 15:31 can I congrat you now? 2011-02-07 15:31 tuxbrain: http://kristianpaul.org/comoblog/Hacked_port_of_Lua_for_the_Milkymist_One.html 2011-02-07 15:31 tuxbrain: :-) 2011-02-07 15:32 si 2011-02-07 15:32 FELICIDADES MACHOTE!!!! 2011-02-07 15:32 jeje 2011-02-07 15:32 gracias 2011-02-07 15:33 Now lets hack flickernoise, hehe 2011-02-07 15:35 roh: it's not as if anyone would type with a lot of fingers at the same time anyway ;-) well, the modifier keys need some special consideration 2011-02-07 15:36 wpwrak: sure. still i see it as kind of a 'too low end' concept 2011-02-07 15:36 diodes are cheap 2011-02-07 15:36 wpwrak: we have used 3 keys at the same time, which is the problem? the tiny keys? 2011-02-07 16:03 my wife is creating another case for nanonote ;) 2011-02-07 16:03 coming soon :) 2011-02-07 16:03 :) 2011-02-07 16:07 lua on Milkymist? awesome! 2011-02-07 16:11 but am i the only one who thinks "lua + fpga â€™ lua-maschine"? not realistic i know 2011-02-07 16:14 i think is same history as forth 2011-02-07 16:14 remenber forth processors? 2011-02-07 16:14 but who knows ! 2011-02-07 16:15 remember lisp-maschines, they used to be really awesome 2011-02-07 16:16 lisp? i dint knew that one 2011-02-07 16:16 wpwrak: your web server is written in lisp isnt? 2011-02-07 16:17 wow thats sad, its important that people still remember what lisp-maschines where and what have been awesome about them 2011-02-07 16:18 urandom__: i born i 1987, i miss so much importants thing in computer science :/ 2011-02-07 16:20 the sad part is, there have been not many important ideas after 1987.. (well i was born a bit later) 2011-02-07 16:21 maketing 2011-02-07 16:21 maRketing 2011-02-07 16:22 kristianpaul: my web server ? you mean the one i run at almesberger.net, awhttpd ? (i didn't write it) now, that one's written in C 2011-02-07 16:22 the short story is that lisp-maschines have been superior in many aspects and you might argue they still are but well in IT world the worse technology seems to win mostly 2011-02-07 16:23 kristianpaul start reading here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine 2011-02-07 16:23 wpwrak: yeap, ah ok, i was confused 2011-02-07 16:23 urandom__: already reading :-) 2011-02-07 16:24 look wikireader, can we call it a forth machine? 2011-02-07 16:24 wikireader ist running forth? 2011-02-07 16:28 urandom__: lisp is a hard language to program in. particularly if you need efficiency, not only elegance. 2011-02-07 16:30 wpwrak well you need elegance and (a bit of) efficiency, just going for efficiency will end up in crap 2011-02-07 16:30 but what is hard about lisp? 2011-02-07 16:33 http://www.loper-os.org/?p=300 2011-02-07 16:37 urandom__: well, if you program lisp in a very procedural way, you can avoid most of the difficulties. but then, why use lisp in the first place ? 2011-02-07 16:38 lets code in haskell ! 2011-02-07 16:39 urandom__: if you stay close to the functional paradigm, complex data structures get hard to manage. languages like C do a better job there (while having their own problems, like not ensuring referential integrity) 2011-02-07 16:40 kristianpaul: do { while (easy(lang[i]) && !done) program_in(lang[i]); i++; } while (!done); 2011-02-07 16:42 ;-9 2011-02-07 16:42 oops 2011-02-07 16:43 :-) 2011-02-07 16:43 easy -> done -> happy -> works ! 2011-02-07 16:44 maybe lua or some lua like subset ist really the way to go for a new kind of lisp-maschine, i mean i understand some people dont like lisp but even c people should like lua, I dont really know how lua would do on bare hardware but would be fun to try 2011-02-07 16:47 (lua might have ALGOL style syntax but has many similaritys with lisp/scheme) 2011-02-07 17:11 no more excuses manifesto :-) 2011-02-07 17:14 yeah, mission accomplished :) 2011-02-07 17:19 I am still reading the mail :) 2011-02-07 17:19 one of the longest 2011-02-07 17:22 how to stop all work in a project for one entire monday ;-) 2011-02-07 17:26 well, i have another mail in the making. about the CAM process. that one is only 114 lines so far, but still needs one or two major sections. also, it's dense text. only very few links and no pictures. should be fun :) 2011-02-07 17:29 but that won't hit the list too soon. maybe in a week or two. 2011-02-07 17:30 I hope it got more pictures in the remaining time for publication, mainlly because is CAM related. i think 2011-02-07 17:32 kristianpaul: drawings would be nice ... but are also a lot of work. maybe in a later version :) 2011-02-07 17:35 I'll use my mind and imagination then ;-) 2011-02-07 18:54 wpwrak: what MUA do you use? 2011-02-07 18:55 I wonder how comfortable you keep some half-written letters, read others, ... 2011-02-07 18:56 viric: i use mutt. i have a lot of parallel sessions :) 2011-02-07 18:57 viric: besides, all the mails i write are just text files. so when i notice that something takes very long, i just save it with a proper name. 2011-02-07 18:58 wpwrak: parallel sessions? what for? 2011-02-07 18:58 mutt -f ? 2011-02-07 18:59 kristianpaul: so that i don't have to finish reading/processing/answering one mail before reading/processing/answering the next. 2011-02-07 18:59 wpwrak: yeah 2011-02-07 19:01 kristianpaul: e.g., i have two mutt sessions in my inbox. that's where all the non-mailing-list traffic and some low-volume mailing lists end up. then three mutts on the qi-hw list. and one on the openmoko community list (because rafa asked about activity there). that's a fairly quiet setup. 2011-02-07 19:02 s/sessions in/sessions on/ 2011-02-07 19:03 are you using mbox or mail-dir? 2011-02-07 19:05 i have to use maildir. don't remember exactly why .. i think because that's all isync supports. i like the easily searchable mbox better. 2011-02-07 19:05 (easily searchable mbox) yay 2011-02-07 19:12 Anyway is good to have VGA output from time to time :-) 2011-02-07 19:12 I like pdf thing 2011-02-07 19:13 oops 2011-02-07 20:46 kristianpaul: congrats you got lua to run on m1 :-) 2011-02-07 20:46 I don't know what you can do now with it, but it sounds cool... 2011-02-07 20:47 (do now with it) me either :p 2011-02-07 20:47 Lets wait for a proper integration with flickernoise and see what came up :-) 2011-02-07 20:48 trying to compile flickernoise for third time 2011-02-07 20:48 wolfspraul: I'm getting ready to migrate from SIE 2011-02-07 20:51 s/do/dont 2011-02-07 21:15 morning adamw_ 2011-02-07 21:16 kristianpaul, hi morning! 2011-02-07 21:35 kristianpaul told me to ask you guys how typing is on the nanonote. I'm very curious 2011-02-07 21:39 hm 2011-02-07 21:39 punctuation can be hard to reach 2011-02-07 21:41 In actual use, do you type on it like you would a cell phone? Like, with two hands using your thumbs? 2011-02-07 21:41 yes 2011-02-07 21:42 at least me :) 2011-02-07 21:42 Huh. Interesting. You using it for anything interesting? I'm debating getting one, but I haven't thought of a good use for it yet 2011-02-07 21:43 I mean, I have my cell phone, which runs android, lasts all day, and can talk to my bluetooth keyboard. I'm just trying to figure out where the nanonote would fit 2011-02-07 21:44 piroko: if you think purely practically, your Android phone is a very large superset of the NanoNote 2011-02-07 21:44 And thinking not purely practically? 2011-02-07 21:44 currently I do not much with it due to a lack of time. I used it on the road as mp3 player and sometimes for chatting with irssi (got my self a wifi microsdio card) 2011-02-07 21:45 the reason you may like the NanoNote is for the pure joy of knowing you can control 100% of the software, maybe because lots of unusual apps like vi, mutt, aewan, gmu and others are running on it out of the box 2011-02-07 21:45 I use mine primarily as a music player 2011-02-07 21:46 don't have an Android phone though, barely use any cell phone 2011-02-07 21:46 Yeah, I ssh to a real computer via my phone, so the nanonote probably wouldn't be very useful to me 2011-02-07 21:46 piroko: you can also get a NanoNote just for the heck of supporting this project :-) 2011-02-07 21:46 It's still very interesting to me though :) 2011-02-07 21:46 haha yes, plus the form factor is pretty sweet. How's the battery life? 2011-02-07 21:47 not just financially, but more importantly in feedback and contributions 2011-02-07 21:47 battery life... I think with screen on ca 4-6 hours, maybe more. with screen off just playing music I've heard 15 hours, but mine won't last that long. 2011-02-07 21:48 you can fit slightly larger (thicker) batteries into the battery slot though, then it might be better. I think most people are satisfied with the battery life, in relation to how they use the device. 2011-02-07 21:48 so few people are trying to put larger batteries into it. 2011-02-07 21:48 it's definitely the most mobile pure Linux device on the market, I think 2011-02-07 21:49 the downside is that the hardware specs are not really competitive, starting from things like usb on-the-go (host), to screen resolution, memory, lack of wifi, lack of touch, lack of gps/bluetooth, lack of gsm/edge/3g, lack of accelerometers 2011-02-07 21:49 :-) 2011-02-07 21:50 I love the device though, and the community around it. 2011-02-07 21:51 you can run openwrt, jlime, debian, gentoo on it 2011-02-07 21:52 for debian and gentoo I personally think it's not very functional, but some people seem to prefer Debian still. (biggest problem is 32 mb memory, which is really too low for Debian) 2011-02-07 21:52 the 2 best distros are definitely jlime and openwrt, imho 2011-02-07 21:53 oh, there is even a small microkernel being developed on and with the Ben, it's called Iris 2011-02-07 21:53 a capability based microkernel 2011-02-07 21:53 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/iris/ 2011-02-07 21:54 Wow. Thanks for the intro 2011-02-07 21:54 I find it interesting that jlime has ported their stuff over to the nanonote. I used to use jlime heavily on my jornadas 2011-02-07 21:56 there's a lot of people that would argue that jlime is the best distro for NanoNote, it's quite actively supported and most importantly I think it will get better over time 2011-02-07 21:57 jlime and openwrt share very different philosophies, that's why I like them both 2011-02-07 21:57 openwrt is always 'build from source' type, optimized for size & speed 2011-02-07 21:57 you can create 4 mb sized bootable rootfs for the NanoNote, with openwrt 2011-02-07 21:57 busybox, uclibc, etc. 2011-02-07 21:57 my nanonote with openwrt boots in 15 seconds 2011-02-07 21:58 jlime on the other hand is using openembedded on the backend, which is more of a meta-distribution type of environment 2011-02-07 21:58 so you would typically not want to build jlime yourself from source, instead you see jlime as a 'built for you' environment with lots of packages ready to be installed 2011-02-07 21:59 in numbers, openwrt has about 2000-2500 packages, jlime about 15,000 2011-02-07 21:59 (note that most of them wouldn't make sense or even run successfully on the NanoNote anyway) 2011-02-07 21:59 those numbers just to illustrate my point 2011-02-07 22:01 Right. I've dealt with openembedded. It was pretty much the worst experience of my life, and the jlime guys will attest to its horridness. But they still do a great job of packaging stuff up 2011-02-07 22:01 we share the same experience :-) 2011-02-07 22:01 so the 2 'official' and currently most supported distros for the Ben are jlime and openwrt 2011-02-07 22:01 then there is Debian which is also quite actively maintained 2011-02-07 22:02 gentoo I've only read once, and never heard much from anymore 2011-02-07 22:02 haha. I wonder if there's someone out there who actually installs their packages ON the nanonote in gentoo 2011-02-07 22:02 fedora was interested at some point, but backed off when they found out about 32 mb memory, since they officially only support platforms with 64 mb memory or more (and even that was just lowered from 128 to 64). 2011-02-07 22:03 we are trying very hard to get patches upstream, everwhere 2011-02-07 22:03 larsc has been exceptionally successful in getting most of the NanoNote Linux kernel patches into kernel.org 2011-02-07 22:03 that should help come out with newer Debian builds 2011-02-07 22:04 I've also heard the jlime folks are working on getting some of their stuff back into OpenEmbedded, which is great 2011-02-07 22:04 xiangfu is working on getting u-boot patches into u-boot proper 2011-02-07 22:04 and so on 2011-02-07 22:05 after a year we succeeded in getting the nanonote-specific usbboot utility (for unbricking) into Debian unstable :-) 2011-02-07 22:05 Damn 2011-02-07 22:07 damn what? your Android phone just broke? 2011-02-07 22:08 ;) 2011-02-07 22:09 haha 2011-02-07 22:09 Damn that it took a year 2011-02-07 22:11 unfortunately things don't tend to happen magical, so you have to some effort into them and they take some time 2011-02-07 22:11 Of course 2011-02-07 22:11 And debian is a HUGE project 2011-02-07 22:12 wolfspraul: any hint how i get a fedex box? or should i use some of mine? 2011-02-07 22:13 roh: did you confirm that the fedex airway bill is enough for you as a proof of export? 2011-02-07 22:14 it seems so. i will talk with the fedex guys on the phone lateron. 2011-02-07 22:14 or should we just believe the fedex rep that < 1000 EUR it is enough... 2011-02-07 22:14 sure. I would probably trust them, but the risk is on your side so I ask you. 2011-02-07 22:14 my tax guy basically confirmed it 2011-02-07 22:14 ah great 2011-02-07 22:14 so then, next question, what is the lowest price fedex can offer 2011-02-07 22:14 I think they have some calculator on their website, let me check 2011-02-07 22:15 hehe. i need to find a scale to re-weight the package 2011-02-07 22:15 basically there are 2 options, you can use the sharism fedex account, or you can just pay cash 2011-02-07 22:15 must be ca. 3 KG 2011-02-07 22:15 3-4 2011-02-07 22:15 using the sharism account is easiest for you, but if it's more expensive than you paying cash I would rather save the money 2011-02-07 22:16 sure. but i guess its more expensive when i pay cash than your account (which for sure has better conditions than single packages) 2011-02-07 22:16 on one hand sharism gets a (small) discount, because we ship quite a bit with them, on the other hand getting a package from Germany to Taiwan is called a '3rd party shipment', because the sharism account is in hong kong 2011-02-07 22:16 no, not that easy 2011-02-07 22:16 fedex has many great services, but well, they make money on those services :-) 2011-02-07 22:17 of course you can just give them the number and the shipment is on the way. but sharism (=me) has to pay for that luxury :-) 2011-02-07 22:17 i guess for my papers its easier to get the airway-bill directly 2011-02-07 22:17 they can even pick it up (ring, more fees) 2011-02-07 22:17 just thinking... 2011-02-07 22:17 you will get the airway bill in any case 2011-02-07 22:17 pickup? i guess so. have no clue how to get packages to them otherwise. i am not aware of any fedex stations 2011-02-07 22:18 sometimes sending in a fedex standard envelope/box is cheaper, they will give you those for free 2011-02-07 22:18 one by one 2011-02-07 22:18 we learn, also for future shipments 2011-02-07 22:18 eh. ok. so i will call them for conditions, terms and getting their box somehow. 2011-02-07 22:18 going to their office at least once is not bad, you can chat a bit and get some free envelopes/packages etc. 2011-02-07 22:18 also we need to see how much they charge for pickup 2011-02-07 22:19 let me try to find their calculator now... Germany to Taiwan 2011-02-07 22:21 roh: they also mention this 7-digit customs number, which seems mandatory for a lot of shipments since jan 1, 2011 2011-02-07 22:22 maybe you should get one for yourself. it's probably easy, just some paperwork. Harald has one too, I use it for the shipments I send to him. 2011-02-07 22:22 www.zoll.de has it, supposedly 2011-02-07 22:22 uuuh 2011-02-07 22:22 http://www.zoll.de/e0_downloads/b0_vordrucke/index.html 2011-02-07 22:22 Vordruck 0870 2011-02-07 22:22 we don't need it for this shipment, but with such a number you have more power for the future :-) 2011-02-07 22:26 ah, and for shipments over 1000 EUR you need this: https://www.ausfuhr.internetzollanmeldung.de/ 2011-02-07 22:28 not sure i get such a number. i only have a vat-id. no handelsregisterauszug or gewerbeanmeldung 2011-02-07 22:31 I'm sure you get one. anybody can get one. 2011-02-07 22:31 first price I get from fedex is 217 EUR. too much. 2011-02-07 22:42 how much work is required to reflash Ben to a new version? assume NEW user, not tools set up pls. Tanks 2011-02-07 22:42 s/tanks/thanks 2011-02-07 22:45 if you have a Debian-based Linux host (debian/ubuntu/etc), you can install the xburst-tools .deb package, then run reflash_ben.sh 2011-02-07 22:45 first time it needs to download the files, so depending on your network speed that may take 30 minutes for downloading, then another 30-40 minutes for flashing 2011-02-07 22:46 second device only the flashing time, reflash_ben.sh will pickup the downloaded files from a local cache 2011-02-07 22:46 I have Ubunto machines 2011-02-07 22:46 should just work 2011-02-07 22:47 s/ubunto/ubuntu 2011-02-07 22:47 roh: if the fedex price stays that high, I think we should opt for a cheaper option 2011-02-07 22:47 I will see whether I can bring it down somehow, using a fedex envelope/pack, the sharism account, etc. 2011-02-07 22:47 I thought about 100 EUR max, but if it's < 150 EUR maybe we just go for it, move things forward 2011-02-07 22:48 > 150 EUR is definitely too much, then we rather try dhl or even regular airmail 2011-02-07 22:49 you can airmail a 2 KG letter for 16 EUR (the size requirements for 'letter' are quite large nowadays) 2011-02-07 22:49 so you could send 2 such letters, 5 cases in each = 32 EUR 2011-02-07 22:49