2011-01-28 01:28 agrees with what said 2011-01-28 01:32 wow! 2011-01-28 01:32 and wolfspraul agrees too 2011-01-28 01:32 roh - you are our savior! 2011-01-28 01:32 that reminds me that roh also wrote some excellent posts on the list a while back in response to Carlos 2011-01-28 01:33 copyleft hardware is difficult, everybody who is serious about it and wants it to succeed agrees 2011-01-28 01:33 there is no point in redoing multi-billion USD investments that are able to make fantastic chips that make our lives so much better 2011-01-28 01:33 and it will never happen anyway 2011-01-28 01:34 but there is a point somewhere, where remote-kill switches, drm, closed firmwares start and innovation and creativity suffers 2011-01-28 01:34 we will find the sweet spot between those two, I'm sure :-) 2011-01-28 01:36 there are a lot of people out there who very much want you to believe you could never even begin to compete with them and their work ;-) 2011-01-28 01:37 after all, demoralizing your competitors before they even start is the most convenient way of beating them :) 2011-01-28 01:37 wpwrak: which products are you talking about? 2011-01-28 01:39 indeed we can't, even worst we don't want to compete :), theÂ Â way we are walking is the good one and they are welcome to walk with us :) 2011-01-28 01:40 oh, pretty much anything. patents are part of that game too, of course. 2011-01-28 01:41 tuxbrain_away: it's actually easy. you just have to ignore that what you're trying to do it impossible. once you got going, you'll eventually find some new direction. 2011-01-28 02:32 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: move all nanonote openwrt package file to this repo http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/fbcbd87 2011-01-28 02:32 xiangfu: hi! have you had a chance to check if gottet is workign for you? 2011-01-28 02:33 kyak: have checked, still the same. :( 2011-01-28 02:33 xiangfu: btw, i built it on buildhost, and it is working just fine (even without the latest "fix") 2011-01-28 02:33 seems that you do have to build from scratch 2011-01-28 02:34 hmm... 2011-01-28 02:40 seems there are some special configure in your nanonote, I also tried reflash my nanonote to 2010-12-14, 2011-01-28 02:40 kyak: and I have two nanonotes. both got the same result. 3/4 screen. 2011-01-28 02:41 kyak: I just tried install your buildhost gottex...ipk . same result in two nanonote. :( 2011-01-28 02:41 two nanonotes, you are a rich man! :) 2011-01-28 02:41 the problem is not in the gottet ipk 2011-01-28 02:41 it might be in one of the libs 2011-01-28 02:41 qt4, maybe 2011-01-28 02:42 so you would have to install "my" qt4, too 2011-01-28 02:42 i wonder what could be so special about my nanonote.. 2011-01-28 02:42 it is flashed with the latest image build from git 2011-01-28 02:47 kyak: ok. I will test and report again. my build will finish in several hours. I will test your ubi file and mines 2011-01-28 02:48 kyak: oh.. no ubi file in your buildhost openwrt. 2011-01-28 02:51 xiangfu: yeah.. it's not finished.. i gave up :) 2011-01-28 02:52 IGNORE_ERRORS=y doesn't work 2011-01-28 02:52 and there are "y" packages that fail to build 2011-01-28 02:53 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: add some sections http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/1d8fe2c 2011-01-28 02:53 xiangfu: you don't necessarily have to check my ubi.. yours should work the same, i just ask if you can build from scratch 2011-01-28 02:53 yes. fetchmail and php5 will fail. 2011-01-28 02:53 guile, too 2011-01-28 02:54 kyak: my build is still compiling 2011-01-28 02:54 guile works fine in my home folder. 2011-01-28 02:57 it's amazign how my can have different results on the same host :) 2011-01-28 02:58 kyak: maybe the package build order. 2011-01-28 02:59 kyak: I have enable all package. so guile maybe build later. I think that is the only different between yours and my .config file 2011-01-28 02:59 i enabled all packages, too 2011-01-28 03:01 i have: feeds.conf (qi-packages first, no @revision). then i git pull in openwrt-packages and git pull in openwrt-xburst. then i make clean; rm -rf build_dir staging_dir dl feeds tmp; make package/symlinks 2011-01-28 03:01 then i copy config from data/.. and yes | & 2011-01-28 03:01 then i make 2011-01-28 03:02 this is how i build from scratch, this way i make sure there is no leftover from previsou build 2011-01-28 03:02 hmm.. with out .config you can not 'make package/symlinks' it's will show 'menuconfig' 2011-01-28 03:02 xiangfu: there is some .config at this point 2011-01-28 03:03 usually 2011-01-28 03:03 then i overwrite it with config from data, if necessary 2011-01-28 03:04 menuconfig shows up if there is no .config only because it wants to know about toolchain options 2011-01-28 03:04 i.e. gcc and uclibc version 2011-01-28 03:04 I have:Â Â 1. make distclean, 2. cp data...config | yes... 2. make package/symlinks 3. cp data...config | yes.. again 4 make 2011-01-28 03:05 xiangfu: i think your way is even better. 2011-01-28 03:05 i don't like distclean because it rm's dl dir - i don't always want it.. 2011-01-28 03:06 kyak: it's a symbolic here. :) 2011-01-28 03:07 symbolic links. 2011-01-28 03:07 smart :) 2011-01-28 03:20 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: gmenu2x move all file to it's repo, keep here as small as possible http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/fcb5476 2011-01-28 03:45 [commit] Wolfgang Spraul: removed Made on Earth http://qi-hw.com/p/m1/0d44fa9 2011-01-28 03:51 hm. too bad. i liked that 2011-01-28 03:51 roh: yes! 2011-01-28 03:51 thank you 2011-01-28 03:51 me too :-) 2011-01-28 03:51 but we were outnumbered by people who think it's better to not upset customs 2011-01-28 03:52 well.. i liked the idea to point out its a multinational effort 2011-01-28 03:52 maybe we have another text that is less confrontational? 2011-01-28 03:53 'made' is so unspecific. which part? code? materials? pcb? assembled where? in what parts? 2011-01-28 03:53 are part of that crowd 2011-01-28 03:53 sure, I agree. 2011-01-28 03:53 and i liked it being so unspecific. 2011-01-28 03:53 and I don't even think this matters at all in customs, it's more an issue for some people/users who turn to the back of the device because they like to know who made this thing etc. 2011-01-28 03:53 you an set that in whatever place in the box as marketing message, but not in the product definition label 2011-01-28 03:54 Made in Many Countries? 2011-01-28 03:54 i think if we would try to list only 30% of the hw and sw compoents and their origin on the back the sticker would cover the whole box below 2011-01-28 03:54 I like that too :-) 2011-01-28 03:54 made in too many countries to list. 2011-01-28 03:55 -ETOOMANYCONTRIBUTORSTOLIST ;) 2011-01-28 03:56 made in qi-hardware :P 2011-01-28 03:57 'proud work of the revoutionary forces working towards open devices on planet earth' 2011-01-28 03:57 +l 2011-01-28 03:58 s/working/striving 2011-01-28 04:00 works for me 2011-01-28 04:00 just a bit long, small font? 2011-01-28 04:00 hrhr 2011-01-28 04:00 write it around the sticker. in small bold font 2011-01-28 04:00 instead of a limiting thick line 2011-01-28 04:01 s/open/liberate 2011-01-28 04:01 kind as a 'goof' for people watching closely 2011-01-28 04:10 how about 'collaborative work of many people' 2011-01-28 04:45 bassel: good morning, where are you now? 2011-01-28 04:47 I'm reading about egyptian internet shut-down, interesting stuff. 2011-01-28 05:05 hey wolfspraul, morning 2011-01-28 05:05 at Syria now 2011-01-28 05:05 wolfspraul: could be a good idea to get a backup satlink into the shack.. for darker times 2011-01-28 05:05 wolfspraul even in Syria they blocked wifi in public places 2011-01-28 05:10 tuxbrain_away: did you get that WEEE registration pulster is talking about? should we add the WEEE logo on m1? 2011-01-28 05:11 bassel: wow. if egypt goes down then I would think they may totally lock you down as well. 2011-01-28 05:11 I mean if the protests continue and the govt and secret service collapse. 2011-01-28 05:11 then we won't see good old bassel for a while, in that case: hang in there! 2011-01-28 05:11 wolfspraul totally, weird shit happening here 2011-01-28 05:12 I'm going back to Singapore soon 2011-01-28 05:12 just got back here to see it's fucked up 2011-01-28 05:15 internet and mobile shut down 2011-01-28 05:15 that's weird 2011-01-28 05:15 the totally turned off the internet in egypt 2011-01-28 05:15 omg 2011-01-28 05:16 yes it seems they disconnected all bgp routes 2011-01-28 05:16 or nearly all, some small isp providing connectivity for the stock exchange and some others seems to be exempt 2011-01-28 05:17 china has been doing similar things when they crack down and kill people in tibet or xinjiang, only that it's too remote for any voices to come out from the siege 2011-01-28 05:18 but egype is more westernize, and surrounded by watchful people, so the whole way they try to lock it down will be much better understood and observed 2011-01-28 05:18 so: let's see how it continues :-) always some good ideas from this how to make routing and network protocols stronger, no? :-) 2011-01-28 05:19 I would think this will drive a lot more people to the streets now, if it really continues. not sure how deeply the internet is already connected into many small or large businesses. 2011-01-28 05:22 roh: the raumfahrtagentur blog is the only one I couldn't get into the qi planet because it seems to be https only and for some reason the old planetplanet I'm using didn't pick it up 2011-01-28 05:23 but - I need to go back at this and get https to work... I found some newer planet versions recently, need to upgrade then see if it works. 2011-01-28 05:23 is looking on cases by Jane 2011-01-28 05:24 wolfspraul I don't believe that the internet has main role in the current middle east protest 2011-01-28 05:24 it might have some part 2011-01-28 05:24 wolfspraul: planetplanet uses some weird python lib which is weird with ssl 2011-01-28 05:24 but people are putting there lifes for this 2011-01-28 05:24 it's more than the internet 2011-01-28 05:25 blocking the internet will just fuel the fire more 2011-01-28 05:26 timeoutsocket 2011-01-28 05:26 if it finds that lib it goes bonkers. remove it and it uses the python fallback which works properly 2011-01-28 05:26 bassel: oh sure the internet is just a small tool. 2011-01-28 05:27 but for a government that has a lot to hide it's still a big problem, even if people just chat about which music they like. 2011-01-28 05:27 yeah the governments now are scared to shit 2011-01-28 05:28 I had to suspend all hackerspace activities 2011-01-28 05:28 sure, take good care, it's better to be around for the long run. 2011-01-28 05:29 one of my ex-neighbors had his second court date today, let me check whether there's a result finally... (he's already in jail for 7 months now) 2011-01-28 05:31 bah still no sentencing http://www.facebook.com/note.php?created¬e_id=193916787286346&id=128366287208330 2011-01-28 05:31 he will get 1-3 years 2011-01-28 05:31 it would be better if he could continue outside :-) 2011-01-28 05:32 roh: how do I remove that library that causes the problem? 2011-01-28 05:32 hm.. dunno anymore.. searched the .so and removed it i guess 2011-01-28 05:32 mmm 2011-01-28 05:33 they just shut down the Casino in Syria, it was just opened one month ago 2011-01-28 05:33 they blocked gambling again 2011-01-28 05:33 after one month of allowing it 2011-01-28 05:33 they trying to make good relation with Muslims 2011-01-28 05:33 hmmm 2011-01-28 05:37 wolfspraul: check if there is a /usr/share/python-support/planet/planet/_timeoutsocket.py 2011-01-28 05:37 i just removed it 2011-01-28 05:37 you mean on the qi server? 2011-01-28 05:37 /usr/share/python-support/planet/planet/timeoutsocket.py 2011-01-28 05:38 on the machine the planet is installed 2011-01-28 05:38 your machine? 2011-01-28 05:38 i just deleted it. just remember to delete it again after an upgrade 2011-01-28 05:38 anyway, I still see it on the qi server 2011-01-28 05:38 maybe I rename it to timeoutstocket.py.disabled ? 2011-01-28 05:38 i removed it on mine to get ssl working 2011-01-28 05:38 timeoutsocket.py.disabled 2011-01-28 05:39 i just deleted it. dunno if rename works.. should i guess 2011-01-28 05:39 sure that's great I will try 2011-01-28 05:39 quick fix, can upgrade to a newer planet sw later 2011-01-28 05:49 wolfspraul: ianal but I think the "made in" should identify the country where the last major manufacturing step took place - in this case Taiwan 2011-01-28 05:51 lekernel: I'm not aware of any regulations that actually mandate that, so out with it 2011-01-28 05:51 it's confusing and contradicts our copyleft goals 2011-01-28 05:52 we rather really document where stuff was made, sourcemap.org etc. 2011-01-28 05:52 I've seen label that read "Designed in California by xxx, Made in China" 2011-01-28 05:52 we could use a similar phrasing 2011-01-28 05:52 let's not try to attract customs problems :) 2011-01-28 05:52 Made in: See sourcemap.org 2011-01-28 05:53 I have by far the most customs experience of anyone in this channel. 2011-01-28 05:53 let me just be arrogant a little :-) 2011-01-28 05:54 so why is every product using a proper "made in " label? 2011-01-28 05:54 don't know 2011-01-28 05:54 don't you think they might have a good reason for that? 2011-01-28 05:54 'proper' because everybody does it? 2011-01-28 05:54 no 2011-01-28 05:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_of_origin 2011-01-28 05:56 "The requirements for Country of Origin markings are complex and depend both domestic rules permitting the designation 'Made in X', 'Product of X' etc; and the import country requirements for disclosure." 2011-01-28 05:56 what does that tell you? 2011-01-28 05:56 do you really want to play with that, or just do as everyone does? 2011-01-28 05:57 law and regulations are boring, and in this case I'm not sure it's worth messing with them for what it brings... 2011-01-28 05:57 no messing 2011-01-28 05:58 in fact I actually take those regulations serious and do a ton of paperwork all the time 2011-01-28 05:58 Made in: See sourcemap.org 2011-01-28 06:01 lekernel: you are not telling me that we should improperly mark the product as 'made in taiwan', when in fact a weapons-grade dual-use fpga is 'made in usa' and affected by us export control laws. 2011-01-28 06:01 or are you? 2011-01-28 06:02 from my understanding of the regulation, the label should say where the last major production step of the product occured 2011-01-28 06:03 there are far less regulations about 'labels' than many people here think 2011-01-28 06:03 the regulations are about declarations, and sometimes about protected names, like the whole famous 'champagne' case 2011-01-28 06:03 if I make a cheese in china, but I say "cheese from switzerland" 2011-01-28 06:03 that's not going to go down very well 2011-01-28 06:03 first rule of business - stick with the truth 2011-01-28 06:04 I am not trying to hide where things are done, quite to the contrary. 2011-01-28 06:04 and we will properly declare everything as required by customs. 2011-01-28 06:22 wolfspraul: yes I have all WEEE things in order here so yes put that logo also . 2011-01-28 06:40 tuxbrain_away: how difficult was it to get the WEEE stuff. do you have some unique number now? 2011-01-28 06:41 well is a little messy but sumarizing you have to pay :P, 2011-01-28 06:42 you have to be afiliated to one of the local WEEE associations and pay an anual fee + a small amount for each device imported each 3 months, you have to deliver a documentation each tree montsh and they invoice you 2011-01-28 06:43 tuxbrain_away: i still think you're confusing "wipe" and "whip" :) 2011-01-28 06:43 that's supposed to be environmentally friendly? 2011-01-28 06:44 yes I have a number NÂº de Productor REI-RAEE 003298 2011-01-28 06:44 are you doing anything with actual devices? or just paying people and producing admin overhead? 2011-01-28 06:44 NÂº REI-RPA 667Â Â RD.106/2008 2011-01-28 06:44 haahahah yes 2011-01-28 06:45 does this mean that a customer anywhere in the EU can return the device to a WEEE collection point? 2011-01-28 06:45 in theory that money is used to cover the cost of recicling the electronic waste you are introducing in the sistem 2011-01-28 06:45 most likely I think way too practical :-) 2011-01-28 06:45 yes but what does it mean for an actual customer of our devices? 2011-01-28 06:45 where can he go to return the device? 2011-01-28 06:45 roh: socket thing didn't work, still got 'internal server error' 2011-01-28 06:48 being practical is not my problem :P , but in theory costumer must go to the local waste station (don't know its name in english) or at least here in my town there is a free pick up service you you have to call and put the waste near the paper/plastic/whatever container on the street 2011-01-28 06:51 is that connected to WEEE ? 2011-01-28 06:51 in other words - do they only pickup stuff that has a WEEE label? 2011-01-28 06:54 no, they pick up all waste,Â Â but if goverment catch a company introducing electronic waste on the system (aka importing or producing) without pay that fee.... tachan!!!! the fee becomes a prette sue and a lot of money to pay 2011-01-28 06:55 so if your question is if there is a clear relation on WEEE and ecology answer is no, weee is just another tax with green flavour but a tax 2011-01-28 06:56 I see. 2011-01-28 06:56 well then, let's add the logo for now, later hopefully we can participate in more meaningful programs as well. 2011-01-28 06:56 the main thing is the longevity of devices, imho 2011-01-28 06:56 I agree 2011-01-28 06:58 tuxbrain_away: (wipe/whip) especially when used in connection with someone's behind :) 2011-01-28 06:58 regarding "made in", there's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_origin 2011-01-28 07:01 hahaha wipe ->clean. dry dish hahahaahah 2011-01-28 07:02 ok ok I will stop wipe your back man, 2011-01-28 07:03 wolfspraul: and here's something that's even better than my "u5D": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark#China_export 2011-01-28 07:10 tuxbrain_away: yes, that is all fine (wikipedia article). And that is exactly why the label will not have a reference to a country, so we can correctly declare it depending on the circumstances. 2011-01-28 07:11 ok is an option :) 2011-01-28 07:11 wolfspraul: seems that some places require a declaration on the label, too. well, i guess you'll find out ... 2011-01-28 07:13 yes. 2011-01-28 07:13 wolfspraul: could also be that lack of such indications simply means "worst case" treatment and fees. not sure how different "taiwan" is from "worst case" 2011-01-28 07:13 and the rules for determination of country of origin may differ depending on country of destination. what now? 2011-01-28 07:13 :-) 2011-01-28 07:13 Made in: See sourcemap.org 2011-01-28 07:14 you seem to think that every rule is designed to be your enemy :-) 2011-01-28 07:14 make them your friend, Werner 2011-01-28 07:14 the rules are there to help you! 2011-01-28 07:14 just use them! 2011-01-28 07:14 (sourcemap) ah, but that's not the legal country of origin :) 2011-01-28 07:14 correct 2011-01-28 07:16 but it adds some facts into the machine 2011-01-28 07:16 (rules) well, for me the question is "how do i avoid undue attention by those who try to enforce those rules". it's like airport security - the real enemy are nowadays the screeners. the average passenger probably spends a lot more time worrying about how to get past them unmolested than about any hypothetical blowing up the plane. 2011-01-28 07:17 hypothetical terrorist 2011-01-28 07:17 don't see the fnords ;-) 2011-01-28 07:27 wpwrak: wolfspraul : I have an idea for some test for werner future customs ezeiza airport travels. Werner, what about if when you need to get something you try to get it via another guy with a name more spanish? better, some very common name here. "Juan Perez" for example (we do not have any friend with that name, but someone with a similar name). I guess that some of the troubles you had on the past is because customs in airport read "ahhh.. Werner Alme 2011-01-28 07:28 (tunesia, egypt, etc.) i wonder if we may be seeing the kyklos in action: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyklos 2011-01-28 07:30 zrafa: so far all Werner said about Argentina sounded very reasonable. 2011-01-28 07:30 there are clear and solid declaration levels for normal couriers, 1000 usd for fedex, 3000 usd for ems. 2011-01-28 07:31 werner seemed to have serious problems only in connection with the power adapter without 'A' symbol 2011-01-28 07:31 but other than that it seems stuff just passes without further ado, no? 2011-01-28 07:31 zrafa: (funny name) naw, i don't think so. argentina has traditionally been a melting pot, and all sorts of germanic names exist here. i might well be the grandson of some (")political refugee(") from the 1940es :) 2011-01-28 07:32 the reason the couriers have those limits is also just because of their business model 2011-01-28 07:32 maybe things above those levels tend to generate too much bureaucratic overhead, so they cannot handle it at their price range and margin expectations 2011-01-28 07:32 zrafa: things may get more intersting with obviously asian names. these would almost all be recent immigrants 2011-01-28 07:33 I'm not at all worried about Argentine customs right now, had a number of shipments and they all just passed. 2011-01-28 07:33 wolfspraul: I have read some post (a long time ago) about guys going to ezeiza airport because customs stop the package, and customs people doing them pay customs dreamed previous night before giving you the package 2011-01-28 07:33 sure, but I think that was because of the power adapters without 'A' symbol 2011-01-28 07:33 ok, we learnt that now. done. 2011-01-28 07:33 wolfspraul: (power) without (S) 2011-01-28 07:33 'S' ok. that's what I meant. 2011-01-28 07:34 wolfspraul: two of the (S) problems were connected with the goods also exceeding the USD 1000 barrier on couriers. they didn't dwell on that point, though. 2011-01-28 07:34 wpwrak: yeah.. from the 1940es there are many germanic names 2011-01-28 07:35 compare that to a 75 USD limit into China now 2011-01-28 07:35 I think Argentine is just fine, really. 2011-01-28 07:35 wolfspraul: what happens at that USD 75 limit ? 2011-01-28 07:35 fedex won't take it 2011-01-28 07:35 wow :) 2011-01-28 07:36 wolfspraul: moving back to taiwan soon ? :) 2011-01-28 07:51 roh: i agree, i just pointed that because, well i know abot our all work done here about copyleft hardware, i understand always there are cheap alternatinves as our 3 usd~ ingenic chip, but now we can look further and do some sacrifies buying a expensive (yeah but is reconfigurable) fpga, in wich i canput a free CPU, even tought ! there is a side project (llhdl) for other _hole_ misssing in free sofware for hardware, but is a human d 2011-01-28 07:59 wolfspraul: yeah, redoing is not good, inovating it is, thats what you can do with mm i think 2011-01-28 08:01 nice http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File%3AExternal-speaker-ben.JPG 2011-01-28 08:04 I don't think it's a good idea to use a FPGA for just a CPU. MM can live with that because the FPGA also brings technical advantages and absorbs some of the chips (and cost) that would normally be needed in such a system 2011-01-28 08:04 otherwise fpga's are expensive and slow, and cheapness and functionality beat freedom 2011-01-28 08:04 no no, s/CPU/SoC :-) 2011-01-28 08:06 yeah well 2011-01-28 08:06 and custom cores.. 2011-01-28 08:06 small soc's with just a lcd driver, memory controller, keyboard and memory card are more or less the same 2011-01-28 08:06 what custom cores do you need for a nanonote? 2011-01-28 08:07 i dint said nanonote :-), but may be ogg/ogv aceleration 2011-01-28 08:09 something for games perhaps... is just matter of see what people can do with 2011-01-28 08:09 remenber the guy on m1 list that said he was using lm32 for L1 2011-01-28 08:09 .. 2011-01-28 08:09 ? 2011-01-28 08:09 lekernel: more mmc engines, gps data conversion, maybe correlation, any interface some diy circuit may require, ... 2011-01-28 08:09 what's l1? 2011-01-28 08:10 diy? diy != FPGA 2011-01-28 08:10 diy = led blinkers 2011-01-28 08:10 :) 2011-01-28 08:11 L1 signal processing, i dont remenber the appp now 2011-01-28 08:11 lekernel: the thing the arduinauts will do once they've grown up ;-) 2011-01-28 08:12 :-) 2011-01-28 08:12 Mobile telephony layer 1 processing mostly. 2011-01-28 08:12 lekernel: also, application-specific acceleration engines, even small ones. see also the MS eMIPS port for BSD. (alas, i only have an article in german about this) 2011-01-28 08:12 is this diy^ ? 2011-01-28 08:12 3 years and a half of milkymist, and: I only got minor FPGA contribs, and lost a lots of delusions about opencores and the like, while every nerd complains about the lack of a MMU but no one would implement it 2011-01-28 08:13 so sorry but I have somehow lost faith in the capability of DIY people to do interesting things with FPGAs 2011-01-28 08:13 there are some exceptions, but it's a very niche market 2011-01-28 08:13 lekernel: give us the fpga, the Free synthesis tools, and a few months to tinker, and i'm sure there will be unique and meaningful uses ;-) 2011-01-28 08:15 lekernel: you're still at the very very beginning. you're like columbus writing the final report of his voyage minutes after leaving the harbor :) 2011-01-28 08:15 also now there is Sharism wich produce the HW, distributors, etc.. 2011-01-28 08:16 yeah, maybe this will improve. but I wouldn't bet on it, though 2011-01-28 08:16 lekernel: they ask about mmu because that's the first thing they find that they both know and understand is missing. I wouldn't read too much into it, it's a process. I'm on that path too. 2011-01-28 08:16 you need to give others some time to catch up 2011-01-28 08:17 I learnt from lars that 'lots of programs want it'. ok. next step: which ones. then 'why do they want it'. then 'what if they don't get it'. 'what can i do without it'. etc. 2011-01-28 08:17 yeah, it's true, many traditional programs want it 2011-01-28 08:17 lekernel: diy != fpga, just wait they got cheaper :-) 2011-01-28 08:18 s/got/get 2011-01-28 08:23 wolfspraul: a mmap is just part of the basic infrastructure today. it's almost like asking "what if we didn't have multiplication" ? sure, you can work around it, but ... 2011-01-28 08:24 wpwrak: not everyone's running GNU/Linux or even Unix 2011-01-28 08:25 is a bit fed up of Ulrich Drepper style arguments "use GNU/Linux or die"... 2011-01-28 08:29 lekernel: i'm sure that, unless MM1 is a spectacular failure, which is very much hope it won't be, i'll be a fine linux platform before too long. and you'll probably come to like it too :) 2011-01-28 08:31 s/i'll/it'll/ 2011-01-28 08:32 nah i gues there is more interesting stuff i would try instead of using it as a linux platform 2011-01-28 08:35 urandom__: linux is just your baseline. doesn't have to be the focus of your activity. 2011-01-28 08:35 lekernel: ok, lets forgot diy for a majority of this, what do you think about amateur? 2011-01-28 08:35 hamradio? 2011-01-28 08:37 thats one, but there are others i bet :-) 2011-01-28 08:59 atmel surely know how to design their chips such that they maximize routing complexity :-( the atmega8u2 is quite impressive in that regard. usb and power all bunched together, with three times vdd, but always other things in the way. 2011-01-28 09:02 oh wow 2011-01-28 09:02 so I read that pdf david mailed 2011-01-28 09:02 and I don't know who writes it, but he sure invested a lot of time in it 2011-01-28 09:02 he wrote assembly to call c functions 2011-01-28 09:03 then used that to create bindings to the framebuffer 2011-01-28 09:03 and then drew a mandelbrot 2011-01-28 09:15 bartbes: looks as if it was david himself who did this, no ? 2011-01-28 14:14 Hello everyone ! 2011-01-28 14:15 I have a precise question about the USB of the Ben Nanonote 2011-01-28 14:16 If I'm connecting two Ben Nanonote with a USB Mini B Male to Mini B Male. Will they be able to communicate wih each other ? 2011-01-28 14:24 no no ! 2011-01-28 14:24 DONT do that 2011-01-28 14:25 LunaVorax: nanonote is NOT usb on-the-go 2011-01-28 14:25 just usb sclient 2011-01-28 14:26 if you want to nanonote to talk each other, try usign your PC as Hub and then asign IP in the same range to both nanonotes 2011-01-28 14:27 s/sclient/client 2011-01-28 14:27 s/to/two 2011-01-28 14:52 Ok 2011-01-28 14:52 kristianpaul, it would have been hard to implement such a feature ? 2011-01-28 14:52 Nanonotes linked to each other only with usb cable ? 2011-01-28 14:53 must be usb? 2011-01-28 14:53 you can use serial port.. 2011-01-28 14:54 SDIO perhaps but i'm not aware of wich protocols support it por p2p links. 2011-01-28 14:54 I don't know I was thinking about a small port 2011-01-28 14:54 LunaVorax: yes it will 2011-01-28 14:54 Complex you mean ? 2011-01-28 14:55 it seems or that what i get from other people told 2011-01-28 15:55 serial would work. you could use ppp ;-) 2011-01-28 16:00 ppp ? 2011-01-28 16:01 Point to Point Protocol ? 2011-01-28 16:17 wpwrak ? 2011-01-28 16:25 yes. that was used for internet connectivity over telephone modems 2011-01-28 16:46 he that remenber me that i have a gsm modem somwhere.. 2011-01-28 17:20 ah, i found cncmap 2011-01-28 17:20 now i see what i should buy in the future a MDX-15/20 if i want get in touch with cnc :-) 2011-01-28 17:20 future as is out of my budget now :-) 2011-01-28 17:22 or who know, inject technology is getting cheaper too 2011-01-28 17:39 there are some DIY-ish variants that are a bit cheaper. you may want to look around the local market. maybe someone if making some. 2011-01-28 17:45 i want scan too ;-) 2011-01-28 17:47 may be laser and powder... there are so many choices, i'm not i a hurry so time will tell 2011-01-28 19:03 hey guys i need a little bit of advice 2011-01-28 19:05 i have a tablet with a jz4760, any suggestions on where to get the windows driver? 2011-01-28 20:51 reading #qi-hardware irc logs is fascinating! who wrote the prgarm that formats the logs? Nice looking, easy to scan. 2011-01-28 21:46 wolf I have contacted a friend who can provide authoritative info regarding labels. His full time job is compliance 2011-01-28 21:51 rjeffries: very appreciated! 2011-01-28 21:52 but... :-) you probably already know, sometimes I see rules as worthy following, and sometimes I see them as worthy changing 2011-01-28 21:52 doing that with truly experienced people on your side is so much more fun, of course 2011-01-28 21:53 the reason I spend quite a bit of time on those small bureaucratic details is because I think they will stay with us in the future, in fact they will become even more important 2011-01-28 21:54 I will finally try out sourcemap.org a bit now, always wanted to but now is a good opportunity. 2011-01-28 21:55 after milkymist one is done, the next interesting thing will be ben-wpan as an 'intentional radiator', some more fcc reading on the todo list... 2011-01-28 21:57 agree with you pursuit of freedom, but not following the rules may cause real issues for your distributor. I do not understand the regualtion, so am gettingadvice. Trying to get it from two independent source. we shall see 2011-01-28 21:58 the actual regulations are far far more flexible than some people here think 2011-01-28 21:59 which is only natural since they need to survive in the real world, not in some engineer's dream of how the world is programmed... 2011-01-28 21:59 the reason I wanted to do CE and FCC compliance for m1 was because I like to know how well the product holds up as an actual quality product 2011-01-28 21:59 it's not just the label 2011-01-28 21:59 the label is nothing actually, it's about what it means 2011-01-28 22:00 and those standards are big, with questions like "is your product primarily used at home, or also professionally?" 2011-01-28 22:00 you tend to answer "PROFESSIONALLY!" 2011-01-28 22:00 :-) 2011-01-28 22:00 then the next question "also in public places like theaters?" 2011-01-28 22:00 then you go "ooops" 2011-01-28 22:00 :-) 2011-01-28 22:00 because you already know it will be about fire safety etc. 2011-01-28 22:01 "ahhh. maybe not.... :-)" 2011-01-28 22:01 now look at the fine print of any digital camera you buy, somewhere it will say "not for professional use" 2011-01-28 22:01 but why? 2011-01-28 22:01 some conspiracy theorists think it's because of some nasty mpeg licensing 2011-01-28 22:01 maybe it is, maybe not 2011-01-28 22:02 maybe it's just because when they went through the ce testing, they said "not in theaters" 2011-01-28 22:03 sebastien asked adafruit about fcc, the answer was "we don't care about fcc" 2011-01-28 22:03 :-) 2011-01-28 22:03 welcome to the real world 2011-01-28 22:04 maybe they are successful because they focus on the right things 2011-01-28 22:05 for me it's about meaning, not forms. get me into a lab, and I can be concentrated 14h / day. put a stack of forms in front of me, and on page 2 I will get really giggly and just fill out so that it passes. 2011-01-28 22:08 Adafriot can say we don't care about the FCC but that does not remove their legal liability. If they ship a device that produces interference with other devices they can face substanntial fines 2011-01-28 22:08 as a product manager, ne I alwasy focus on is saftey. that is the largest potential liability, and easy too avoid. 2011-01-28 22:09 I once joined a company and took over a product where the team had neglected saftey. 2011-01-28 22:11 in that product there were high currents, and someone culd reach inside and if male was wearing a wedding ring and his finger was even slightly damp from sweat would get a nasty potentially fatal jolt 2011-01-28 22:11 so it was hard to fix but we did. 2011-01-28 22:12 semi unrealted I AGREE with you that next revision of MM should include protection against reverse polarity. 2011-01-28 22:12 I was in support department and the cmpany got careless abd shipped a product that did not have protection against reversal 2011-01-28 22:13 I can't begin to explain the damage to custmer satisfaction and the cost in USD 2011-01-28 22:14 we are on the same page 2011-01-28 22:14