2011-01-25 00:41 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: emacs, remove manully strip binary file http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/9e6dd9d 2011-01-25 00:44 xiangfu: hi! 2011-01-25 00:44 kyak: 2011-01-25 00:45 xiangfu: do i remember correctly that you were going to built a release image this week? 2011-01-25 00:45 you said, Wednesday or Friday 2011-01-25 00:45 kyak: yes. I got those images. but it's too big. big then 512M . :( 2011-01-25 00:46 ls packages/ | wc -l 2011-01-25 00:46 2445 2011-01-25 00:46 heh..ok then :) i wanted to ask you to check it "gottet" could get inside this image.. I guess you have other worries now 2011-01-25 00:46 kyak: ^ we got ~2400 packages this time. 2011-01-25 00:46 fidn something to remove 2011-01-25 00:46 is pretty amazing 2011-01-25 00:50 kyak: do you mean this: http://gottcode.org/gottet/ ? 2011-01-25 00:50 yep, but it's already in openwrt-pacakges 2011-01-25 00:52 kyak: yes. of cause, I always like Tetris. I play the command line version a lot :) 2011-01-25 00:53 actually, wy wife is beating the crap out of console version :) but then she asked to find something more "beautiful" :) so i found gottet 2011-01-25 00:54 xiangfu: have you removed the sample music and berlin nanomap already? 2011-01-25 00:54 unfortunately afaik those are the only easy targets to reduce rootfs size 2011-01-25 00:57 i'd say, we coudl remove gcc and ghostscript.. these are space eaters 2011-01-25 00:57 then oen could install those via opkg 2011-01-25 00:57 *one 2011-01-25 00:58 wolfspraul: not yet. 2011-01-25 00:59 wolfspraul: kyak here is all install package size: http://pastebin.com/e9KHtW38 2011-01-25 00:59 # 2011-01-25 00:59 12MÂ Â Â Â nanonote-example-files_1.0_xburst.ipk 2011-01-25 01:00 xiangfu: sorting by size would be great ;) 2011-01-25 01:00 | sort -h should handle it 2011-01-25 01:03 kyak: thanks. this is much better: http://pastebin.com/XWaYBLhp 2011-01-25 01:03 ok, now we see... 2011-01-25 01:04 hm, for some reasone i thought that gcc install size is ~60Mb 2011-01-25 01:09 xiangfu: what is the resulting image size now 2011-01-25 01:09 ? 2011-01-25 01:11 172KÂ Â Â Â openvpn_2.1.3-4_xburst.ipk 2011-01-25 01:12 very questionable 2011-01-25 01:12 1.2MÂ Â Â Â centerim_4.22.9-4_xburst.ipk - this could be made as "module" 2011-01-25 01:13 we have nlove, but do we have any playable games for it? 2011-01-25 01:14 kyak: http://pastebin.com/3GsAtes2, the image size and others 2011-01-25 01:15 i think it is needed to have at least 50Mb spare in rootfs 2011-01-25 01:17 let's not remove things that work 2011-01-25 01:17 we could move some data files to the data partition? 2011-01-25 01:17 but we need to be careful that we don't make upgrading and package management harder... 2011-01-25 01:18 things like the stardict-en dictionary 2011-01-25 01:18 well first step we can definitely remove the sample music file 2011-01-25 01:18 it's nice to see that we have so many things that actually work slowly :-) 2011-01-25 01:19 I'm wondering whether emacs-data can be on the data partition - not sure what it exactly is, when/how it needs to be upgraded, etc. 2011-01-25 01:19 at least the .ubi is only 505MB, so we're close :-) 2011-01-25 01:26 505MB is already bigger then nanonote ubi rootfs partition. ubifs can not using full 512MB flash. 2011-01-25 01:27 output by 'df' : ubi0:rootfs 471192 471192 0 100% 2011-01-25 01:27 good evening 22"26 in my time zone 2011-01-25 01:32 i think it's pretty tricky to install something into datafs.. because it can be mounted or not, it can be formatted or not.. how about flashing of Bens in factory? and what about users who upgrade, they could have some files.. 2011-01-25 01:32 ..already in data partition, or maybe they have two data partitions... 2011-01-25 01:40 kyak: yes exactly, but we need a good solid plan/answer for those things, otherwise why do we have the data partition at all? 2011-01-25 01:40 hello wolf 2011-01-25 01:41 rjeffries: we need investors to take copyleft hardware to the next level fast and aggressively 2011-01-25 01:41 can you help us find one? 2011-01-25 01:42 I don't have any idea how one would pitch this to investors 2011-01-25 01:42 I think we should increase speed, and attack on more technical fronts in parallel :-) 2011-01-25 01:42 you almost need to find a guy who shares your passion 2011-01-25 01:43 no, just a hardware investor 2011-01-25 01:43 the guy who is behind Ubuntu is an interesting case 2011-01-25 01:43 any investment in any manufacturing business carries the same if not higher risks 2011-01-25 01:43 you have just never asked yourself what it would take to invest in some manufacturing business :-) 2011-01-25 01:44 what's the differentiator? what stops your competitors from undercutting you on price? etc. 2011-01-25 01:44 oh I understand thos issues reanably well 2011-01-25 01:44 it takes much more guts and business swagger for Samsung to invest 30 billion USD this year into their fabs, than for anyone to invest in copyleft hardware 2011-01-25 01:44 at least I think I do 2011-01-25 01:45 the issue is just to find those venturing individuals and get them onboard :-) 2011-01-25 01:45 some cold calling necessary I guess... 2011-01-25 01:45 there is an existence proof sorta kinda: Adafruit, Sparkfun, Seed Studio 2011-01-25 01:46 Adafruit has their own pick and place for example (not sure that makese sense, but they do) 2011-01-25 01:53 what's your point about those companies? 2011-01-25 01:57 one problem I see is the subsidizing of hardware by content or services companies 2011-01-25 01:58 at least I'm thinking about it right now 2011-01-25 01:59 at least they have to make it back somewhere, so we should be ready and market at those places 2011-01-25 02:04 I assume margins in copyleft hardware will be razor thin with modest volume. 2011-01-25 02:18 kyak: report a bug about mplayer: 2011-01-25 02:18 root@BenNanoNote:~# mplayerÂ Â --help 2011-01-25 02:18 mplayer: can't load library 'libXext.so.6' 2011-01-25 02:19 kyak: I am using the MPlayer here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.all_packages-01212011-2200/packages/ 2011-01-25 02:27 later all 2011-01-25 02:29 re: what's your point about those companies? [Adafruit etc] simply that they selll low cost open hardware and seem to be doing OK. 2011-01-25 02:36 xiangfu: hm-hm.. thanks, i'll check it! 2011-01-25 02:37 xiangfu: i didn't build mplayer with full image, quess it tries to compile in some additional libs/features, which are not explicitely disabled.. 2011-01-25 02:37 xiangfu: could you upload a build log for mplayer? 2011-01-25 02:37 kyak: ok. 2011-01-25 02:39 (with both stdout and stderr) 2011-01-25 02:40 kyak:Â Â make package/mplayer/{clean,compile} V=99 > mplayer.build.log 2>&1 2011-01-25 02:41 kyak: the full build log is here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.all_packages-01212011-2200/ 2011-01-25 02:41 kyak: now I am create the only mplayer log. 2011-01-25 02:42 xiangfu: yes, this is perfect 2011-01-25 02:43 kyak: the Mplayer is at Line:668174 ~ 698750 at http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.all_packages-01212011-2200/BUILD_LOG :) 2011-01-25 02:43 adamw_: do you know when you will go to xilinx exactly? 2011-01-25 02:44 xiangfu: i'd prefer a separate log :) would have to download the whole BUILD_LOG, it's aroudn 50 Mb is guess :) 2011-01-25 02:45 kyak: you can download the .bz2 file.Â Â 4.9M. the unzip file is 160M 2011-01-25 02:47 since you are already creating a separate log, i'll wait for that! 2011-01-25 02:47 kyak: yes. 2011-01-25 02:53 wolfspraul, thursday 2011-01-25 02:55 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system, remove build uboot for avt2 n516 sakc http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3d49b3f 2011-01-25 03:04 adamw_: what time exactly? 2011-01-25 03:05 I think we should tell lekernel so if you need some quick feedback at least he knows when you are there (if it's in the middle of the night I guess we cannot do much...) 2011-01-25 03:05 wolfspraul, pm2:30 2011-01-25 03:08 the most tasks are to ask them to help & verify if the h/w design is initially reasonable... 2011-01-25 03:09 I saw you uploaded some scope screenshots - anything unusual there? 2011-01-25 03:09 suppose that during that period i think no need to like quick support on some parameters changes request from lekernel. 2011-01-25 03:09 alright then... 2011-01-25 03:10 they are not enough yet...keep measuring...i want to make a sequence of timing 2011-01-25 03:11 i don't know exactly too much on DONE & INIT_B pins 2011-01-25 03:12 kyak: the gottet have some display problem: check this screenshot: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/gottet.png 2011-01-25 03:14 kyak: thanks for 'qball', 'Tile'Â Â and 'gottet', I like all of them. 2011-01-25 03:16 xiangfu: hm.. works fine for me.. looks like your display is shrinked 2011-01-25 03:16 but i saw the info said that they are important for "Design Considerations" on p36 of ug394.pdf[Spartan-6 FPGA Power Management] 2011-01-25 03:17 xiangfu: did you unset that variable from directfb? like rgb24 2011-01-25 03:17 well...cu later 2011-01-25 03:17 cu 2011-01-25 03:20 xiangfu: it looks like your screen is exactly 3/4 of usual size 2011-01-25 03:21 xiangfu: make sure your QWS_DISPLAY=linuxfb 2011-01-25 03:24 kyak: yes. I have QWS_DIRPLAY=linuxfb and have tried add "pixelformat=RGB24" to /etc/directfb. 2011-01-25 03:24 same result. 2011-01-25 03:24 no-no, you should remove it.. but this is not relevant, maybe.. 2011-01-25 03:24 do you have the same results when running gottet -qws from console? 2011-01-25 03:25 what about other qt apps - NanoMap, qball etc? 2011-01-25 03:25 NanoMap. qball works fine. only gottet have this problem 2011-01-25 03:26 kyak: I tried both with and without "pixelformat=RGB24". same result on gottet. 2011-01-25 03:27 very strange 2011-01-25 03:30 xiangfu: i don't even know what to think about.. did you build from scratch long time ago? 2011-01-25 03:32 xiangfu: i think i would request the full build log of gottet, too :) 2011-01-25 03:33 kyak: ok. will re-build the gottet again, then send you the log 2011-01-25 03:35 ok.. 2011-01-25 03:37 xiangfu: how exactly are you starting the gottet? 2011-01-25 03:37 gottet -qws 2011-01-25 03:37 from where? 2011-01-25 03:38 command, 2011-01-25 03:38 from ssh session? 2011-01-25 03:38 I tried, ssh, ctrl+alt+F1, and 'ash(default)' in gmenu2x 2011-01-25 03:40 are you running other apps from gmenu2x's shortcut, or from console as well? 2011-01-25 03:40 other qt4 apps 2011-01-25 03:45 no 2011-01-25 03:45 so, from gmenu or from console? :) 2011-01-25 03:47 kyak: I am confused. 2011-01-25 03:48 the 'qball' works fine by start in 'ssh session' 'Ctrl + Alt + F2' and 'ash(default)' in gmenu2x 2011-01-25 03:48 ok.. weird 2011-01-25 03:49 only gottet have problem. :( 2011-01-25 03:49 could you rebuild from scratch? i don't know, but it helps sometimes 2011-01-25 03:50 it's really wierd, because we should be on the same elvel.. same hardware, same toolchain 2011-01-25 03:51 kyak: your host is 32bit ? right? 2011-01-25 03:51 yeah 2011-01-25 03:52 kyak: can you post your gottet ipk somewhere, let me try your build. 2011-01-25 03:52 ok. on sec 2011-01-25 03:53 http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak/tmp/gottet_1.0.4-1_xburst.ipk 2011-01-25 03:53 xiangfu: -^ 2011-01-25 03:56 kyak: still same. 2011-01-25 03:57 then it's not gottet, presumably 2011-01-25 03:57 kyak: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/tmp/gottet.build.log 2011-01-25 03:57 kyak: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/tmp/mplayer.build.log.bz2 2011-01-25 03:57 must be some underlying library 2011-01-25 03:58 thanks for the logs, i'll check it 2011-01-25 04:01 xiangfu: I think the font used in the main window of GMU is not very readable 2011-01-25 04:01 did anybody else complain about this before, or think that the current one is perfect? 2011-01-25 04:02 is it possible to change the font used there to a better looking one? 2011-01-25 04:05 wolfspraul:Â Â no one complain for now. 2011-01-25 04:05 xiangfu: for gottet, our logs are pretty much the same 2011-01-25 04:05 i don't have qt4-dbus enabled 2011-01-25 04:08 wolfspraul: I guess the gmu can not using the setfont2 fonts. then only method is make the font bigger. 2011-01-25 04:09 wolfspraul: I can complain but I'm not using it frequently :) 2011-01-25 04:09 kyak: ok. I enable all the package as modules. so mean I enable all of the packages. 2011-01-25 04:09 xiangfu: for mplayer, i think i know what is the problem.. will commit it soon for your checking 2011-01-25 04:09 kyak: (mplayer) great. thanks. 2011-01-25 04:14 Jay7: there are other small things, like when adding a file to the playlist, the cursor could advance to the next line 2011-01-25 04:14 there is "gmu-cli" in gmu-0.7.2 2011-01-25 04:14 dont' know how to using it. not help text. :( 2011-01-25 04:14 well probably tons of little things everywhere, but I accept that the best way to bring forward such feedback is with a patch :-) 2011-01-25 04:14 also I think in the playlist view, you cannot scroll to the right as you can in the file view 2011-01-25 04:15 I'm considering about using gmu as default player for zauruses in angstrom :) 2011-01-25 04:18 the gmu using .png as font. 2011-01-25 04:19 so we can replace the "letters_small_blue.png" for replace the font. 2011-01-25 04:19 but need someone to create the better font. 2011-01-25 04:19 need do the same work as setfont2. 2011-01-25 04:19 use terminus :) 2011-01-25 04:19 and gimp :) 2011-01-25 04:20 xiangfu: not the highest priority for me, it works pretty well 2011-01-25 04:20 I'm just curious how others feel about those shortcomings. 2011-01-25 04:20 Jay7: maybe you can help :) 2011-01-25 04:20 one time I had a little sputtering when listening to audio 2011-01-25 04:20 don't know why 2011-01-25 04:21 the console said something about dropped audio etc. 2011-01-25 04:21 but it happened only once, maybe some heavy processing in the background? 2011-01-25 04:21 [commit] kyak: mplayer: explicitely disable X11 features http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/6b0e5bb 2011-01-25 04:21 it sputtered maybe 2-3 times, that was it. but out of the blue, in the middle of listening, screen was off etc. 2011-01-25 04:22 xiangfu: you have X11 devel libraries in toolchain, and mplayer autodetects and uses them.. now X11 features should be disabled 2011-01-25 04:22 the font is at gmu-0.7.2/themes/default-modern/letters_small_***.png 2011-01-25 04:23 xiangfu: please check if it works now for you... 2011-01-25 04:23 kyak: ok. thanks. 2011-01-25 04:23 the gmu font is small indeed, but msot of the time you listen to music rather than watch the gmu :) 2011-01-25 04:26 oh.. seems someone should say to Jane to not answer inside quoted text 2011-01-25 04:26 I've spent some time to find answer there :) 2011-01-25 04:27 yeah it's hard to read 2011-01-25 04:28 at least she doesn't using top-posting.. 2011-01-25 04:32 wolfspraul: kyak I decide remove :Â Â nethack, qt4-demos, stardict-dit-en-cn, qt4-examples gcc-mips make binutiles xz, totally about 37MB. 2011-01-25 04:33 those will build as modules, not inside ubi rootfs image. 2011-01-25 04:38 ouch, I like them 2011-01-25 04:38 well if it's between you and your image, go ahead you have the power :-) 2011-01-25 04:39 are the qt4-demos and qt4-examples actually working? last time I checked they weren't 2011-01-25 04:40 btw, I've found 3 good looking console mp3 players - cmus, gamp and mp3blaster 2011-01-25 04:44 kyak: after install libggi, libgii, libaa, svgalib, giflib, fribidi, libspeex, libtheora, the mplayer working. 2011-01-25 04:46 but can not play the sample audio file in the nanonote. 2011-01-25 04:51 Jay7: so many, wow 2011-01-25 04:51 mp3blaster sounds wrong though :-) 2011-01-25 04:52 mp3blaster should have troubles with small screen :) 2011-01-25 04:52 gamp have no volume control (marked as in progress in features) 2011-01-25 04:52 so.. cmus :) 2011-01-25 04:53 http://cmus.sourceforge.net/ 2011-01-25 04:54 wolfspraul: qt4 demos and examples are working 2011-01-25 04:54 gamp here: http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~wburdick/gamp/ 2011-01-25 04:55 not sure about volume control in cmus 2011-01-25 05:01 xiangfu: mplayer has both theora and tremor (vorbis) codecs enabled. .should play the sample file just fine (though i didn't check it).. maybe you can have a look at "mplayer -ac help" and choose the codec manually 2011-01-25 05:02 oh. 2011-01-25 05:04 [commit] kyak: mplayer: use "tremor" as default audio codec http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/94bbe32 2011-01-25 05:12 http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Matrix_Users_Guide 2011-01-25 05:12 TI Matrix Application Launcher GUI 2011-01-25 05:13 may be interesting 2011-01-25 05:13 there is Text UI Launcher as well but w/o screenshots.. 2011-01-25 05:13 https://gforge.ti.com/gf/project/matrix_tui/ 2011-01-25 05:17 cmus have volume control 2011-01-25 05:18 and remote control via cmus-remote + unix socket 2011-01-25 05:28 Jay7: the Matric GUI is based on HTML and CSS, and therefore requires some decent graphical mode browser.. afaic, we don't have any 2011-01-25 05:28 yeah.. I've found already 2011-01-25 05:28 TUI is described later too 2011-01-25 05:28 but it is using libxml to parse config 2011-01-25 05:28 TUI may be intersting, cause it's ncurses based 2011-01-25 05:29 libxml is avaialble, too 2011-01-25 05:29 so should be possible to run it 2011-01-25 05:30 remember about need to implement TUI in kexecboot and feel sad 2011-01-25 05:31 cmus looks pretty much like mocp :) 2011-01-25 05:31 oh, yes 2011-01-25 05:32 haven't know about it 2011-01-25 05:32 it's already ported and in openwrt-packages 2011-01-25 05:32 even on OE too.. 2011-01-25 05:33 good 2011-01-25 05:33 btw it seems we are not too far away from each other.. at least the ISP is the same :) 2011-01-25 05:34 kyak: hehe :) 2011-01-25 05:34 I'm from Ulyanovsk 2011-01-25 05:34 middle volga 2011-01-25 05:34 0, 7=0G8B, :>@18=0 4>1@0;0AL 4> #;LO=>2A:0 ) 2011-01-25 05:35 C6 3>40 420 :0: :) 2011-01-25 05:35 now there are other non-latin chars in log ;) 2011-01-25 05:35 yep.. headache for wolfspraul :) 2011-01-25 05:36 kyak: are you from Moscow? ;) 2011-01-25 05:36 yes 2011-01-25 05:36 bingo, hehe :) 2011-01-25 05:36 your chances were high.. 90% of Corbina users are from Moscow :) 2011-01-25 05:37 yeah 2011-01-25 05:37 did you get Ben long ago? 2011-01-25 05:37 this summer iirc 2011-01-25 05:38 http://www.ul-lug.ru/node/54 2011-01-25 05:38 how long did it take to arrive? 2011-01-25 05:38 ah ok :) 2011-01-25 05:38 2 month by '=0H0 3@510=0O ?>GB0 @>8AA8' :) 2011-01-25 05:39 now it is kind of 'drawer computer'.. 2011-01-25 05:39 "2848<>, 70?0A=>9 ":C?>;" 4;O :0:>9-B> :=>?:8 2 >B45;L=>< ?0:5B8:5" - used to short-cut the pins for USB boot :) 2011-01-25 05:39 kyak: yes, now I'm understand :) 2011-01-25 05:39 btw, should fix this 2011-01-25 05:41 so, you are playing with kexec on Ben? 2011-01-25 05:42 that was initial plan :) 2011-01-25 05:42 do you have some obligations for "CE Linux" group? 2011-01-25 05:42 still have no time/wish to test kexecboot there 2011-01-25 05:42 contract 2011-01-25 05:43 I'm doing work, they paying money :) 2011-01-25 05:43 here is original proposal: http://elinux.org/CELF_Project_Proposal/Improve_kexecboot 2011-01-25 05:43 so you don't have a time/wish to get money, huh? :) 2011-01-25 05:43 kind of :) 2011-01-25 05:44 would be great to have it on Ben, really 2011-01-25 05:44 I should finish all my work before March 2011-01-25 05:44 so.. you will have it soon enough ;) 2011-01-25 05:45 good to know! ) 2011-01-25 05:45 I've promised to kristianpaul to fork some kind of application launcher from kexecboot code 2011-01-25 05:46 kyak: no headache, if there's anything I love to care about then it's cultural differences, different characters, writing systems, etc. 2011-01-25 05:46 as a kid I actually ordered the 2 unicode 1.0 volumes the moment they came out and studied all those interesting characters :-) 2011-01-25 05:47 I even brought them to my school and told the teacher they should tech this stuff instead of the boring shit we had to learn at the time :-) 2011-01-25 05:47 yeah well, ... 2011-01-25 05:47 Jay7: then we will have both boot menu and another application launcher :) 2011-01-25 05:47 I would have just gone through all those exciting scripts, one by one. every week another one... 2011-01-25 05:47 kyak: that is the point :) 2011-01-25 05:48 wolfspraul: you should've devoted your life to calligraphy :) 2011-01-25 05:48 wolfspraul: I've look on chinese calligraphy about week ago :) 2011-01-25 05:48 heh 2011-01-25 05:48 I'm more into really exotic/mystic stuff 2011-01-25 05:49 the chinese reality is a bit too harsh for me every day to enjoy the beauty much 2011-01-25 05:49 so I like the georgian alphabet, or nepalese, or mongolian script, or even ancient stuff like maya, egyptian, etc. 2011-01-25 05:50 do you have tatoos? 2011-01-25 05:50 ha, no 2011-01-25 05:50 based on your passion for symbols, i though yo ucould :) 2011-01-25 06:02 morning 2011-01-25 06:04 wolfspraul: just found this by accident http://code.google.com/webfonts 2011-01-25 06:04 wolfspraul: just read a bit of my scrollback buffer... i think we have 2 challenges in 'open hardware'. one is the purely technical, developing stuff others did already but with free licenses. the other being socially, building a community which enables us to solve the first problem. 2011-01-25 06:05 the second part is extremly important since 'money alone' doesnt buy one enough trust and capabilities to get things done. e.g. 'who owns what' 'who has which machines' 'who can help us get $detail solved'(in foss licenses) 2011-01-25 06:06 its hard getting people to write down the knowledge they have for others to 'copy and use', especially if thats what they are living from. 2011-01-25 06:10 wolfspraul: in the end the biggest challenge is getting this all done and working. building a ecosystem which enables us to continue working on foss stuff. 2011-01-25 06:27 Jay7: :-) 2011-01-25 06:44 roh: money is never a solution :) but it can help make a solution stick. 2011-01-25 06:45 ;) 2011-01-25 06:46 roh: e.g., if you find someone capable and that person would have to spend the next few months full-time to solve a major problem you have (like making a ben/ya case), consider option A) that you have money or option B) that you don't. 2011-01-25 06:48 sometimes, B) even works better than A), e.g., if people feel that involving money creates obligations or just somehow wrong at some level. but if someone has to spend a lot of time basically working for you, that's more likely to happen if you can help them in return to not have to worry about existential needs. 2011-01-25 07:16 wpwrak: paying volunteers can be very tricky, but fully paid work has less complications 2011-01-25 07:19 "existencial needs" may vary from person to person :) 2011-01-25 07:22 kyak: what's special about this directory? are they all under free licenses? 2011-01-25 07:23 I am looking for a nice directory of only free fonts, couldn't find it yet 2011-01-25 07:23 wolfspraul: hard work (finding fonts) 2011-01-25 07:23 the one used in the case manual is free 2011-01-25 07:23 somehow 2011-01-25 07:23 I found dafont.com and fontsquirrel.com, but the free stuff is among a flood of non-free stuff 2011-01-25 07:24 wolfspraul: you really need to meet wetterfrosch some time 2011-01-25 07:24 wolfspraul: first of all, they are free, and secondly, it would feed your calligraphic passion :) 2011-01-25 07:24 then there is linuxlibertine.org 2011-01-25 07:25 roh: did you get that missing package of acrylic sheets? 2011-01-25 07:25 yeah 2011-01-25 07:25 4 hours later 2011-01-25 07:25 from a veeeery sorry delivery guy 2011-01-25 07:25 well good then, happy ending 2011-01-25 07:26 yes. still.. next time i will pay somebody i know personally to fetch it. much too slow and expensive for the bad quality of service 2011-01-25 07:28 there is also typedia.org, but I'm not sure whether they focus on free fonts or also will get buried under thousands of non-free fonts later 2011-01-25 07:34 kyak: (existential needs) absolutely. some people are so horrified about the idea of having to file a tax declaration that they'd rather not have any income. of course, someone must be covering their existential needs somehow. maybe their parents. 2011-01-25 07:39 kyak: or maybe seniors. i'm actually a bit surprised that we don't see more of them in the free culture world. there ought to be a lot of excellent engineers with their juices still flowing at retirement age. who is it that virtually none of them seem to enter the free software world ? or free hardware for that matter ? 2011-01-25 07:40 wpwrak: true. maybe the way to get people to commit their work to opensouce is finding a way to get them live from it ;) 2011-01-25 07:42 in my country, 99% of retired people don't stop working. Otherwise, they won't provide their own "existencial needs" 2011-01-25 07:42 they stop working when they physically can't work, and therefor not interesting for potential employer 2011-01-25 07:43 kyak: yeah, you have a good system :) but in many of the richer countries, a lot of people just fall off a cliff at 65. all of a sudden their job is gone. their whole life changes. some manage to give it new purpose, find something to do. a lot don't and just switch into "wait for death" mode. 2011-01-25 07:44 roh: indeed ;-) 2011-01-25 07:45 wpwrak: i know old people from USA and Germany travel a lot.. 2011-01-25 07:45 means that they not only can work, but they have money! 2011-01-25 07:45 ideal employee :) no need to pay 2011-01-25 07:49 kyak: exactly ! 2011-01-25 07:53 wpwrak: btw, how old are you? :) 2011-01-25 07:53 kyak: 43, still a bit short of retirement age :) 2011-01-25 07:54 what's the age in your country? 2011-01-25 07:54 65? 2011-01-25 07:58 kyak: i don't even know :) in argentina, i think it's about as relevant as in russia. you can retire when you have enough to last to your projected end of life. else, you better keep on working. 2011-01-25 07:59 but there's still an official retirement age - and it is a very important milestone for everyone 2011-01-25 07:59 kyak: yeah, that's the age when they lose their regular job :) 2011-01-25 08:00 what do old people do in Argentina? 2011-01-25 08:03 kyak: some earn enough money that that they can live comfortably with it. a lot get by with savings and retirement money. quite a lot have to work. it all depends a bit on the social class as well. 2011-01-25 08:04 i mean, those who work - what do they do? 2011-01-25 08:05 here they usually work as janitors, nurses... men can work as guards (yes) 2011-01-25 08:07 kyak: yup, very popular. 2011-01-25 08:09 if you were not kidding, it's hard to imagine those people working on some modern open source project 2011-01-25 08:11 kyak: the guards and such, probably not. but whose who worked as engineers, probably living off their savings. where are they ? 2011-01-25 08:11 kyak: does it not appeal to them ? are they too disconnected technologically ? do they dislike the communities ? 2011-01-25 08:12 yeah, these are good reasons.. they are probably way too out of date 2011-01-25 08:12 some of them are not very keen with computers 2011-01-25 08:12 most of them 2011-01-25 08:13 kyak: maybe it's still too early for sw engineers. by now, only the first cobol grunts have reached retirement age :) 2011-01-25 08:13 they may be very cool respectful professors, but this is another reasons why they can also think that they are always right 2011-01-25 08:13 kyak: hardware should be easier, though. transistors haven't changed all that much in recent decades. 2011-01-25 08:14 i bet some teachers from my univercity have seen lamps... 2011-01-25 08:15 wpwrak: you are right, perhaps it's too early. I wonder what would happen when i become old. Would i be out of date? 2011-01-25 08:15 "what's that? ah, a teleporter.. What th ehell, i prefer driving a gasoline car!" 2011-01-25 08:17 it's all changin so fast 2011-01-25 08:18 kyak: well, one problem with hardware is failing vision. that small stuff seems to get really bad once you cross the 50. i even notice it beginning for me already when wearing lenses. luckily, i'm near-sighted, so i can still focus just fine after removing correction. 2011-01-25 08:20 wpwrak: you could find yourself a young pupil. He could be your hands and eyes :) He will continue your work after your death (at least it worked like that couple of centuries ago) 2011-01-25 08:24 kyak: that's one of the good things in the free software world. your work is likely to outlast you. i think it really does take some psychological burden off you :) 2011-01-25 08:25 do you imagine how many old sites, repos, projects there will be on the Internet in 70 years? :) 2011-01-25 08:25 old= abandoned, whose owbers are long dead 2011-01-25 08:25 *owners 2011-01-25 08:25 and nobody knows the password 2011-01-25 08:26 and then intersted people start to fork it, and then they are dead, too 2011-01-25 08:26 intersting picture :) 2011-01-25 08:30 kyak: well, ihave my stuff in the linux kernel. i don't think there's much of a risk that people will read their ancient fat file systems in 50 years with code that's substantially different from what's been around for the last 15 years. likewise for initrd. it has evolved slightly and become initramfs. still the same principle. even my copyright is still valid. killall and pstree - anyone in a hurry to replace these ? of course not. s 2011-01-25 08:30 o yes, i'm pretty sure that my work will outlast me :) i've planted my tree. and can worry about other things now ;-) 2011-01-25 08:31 hrhr 2011-01-25 08:32 linux kernel, huh? i don't know if it still will be around in 50 years ;) Anyway, it seems like a good place to plant your tree 2011-01-25 08:38 anyway ... let's see how my toys are doing. ah, still waiting for customs to finish the morning coffee. 2011-01-25 09:33 argh. i just realized that the prototypes for adam will reach him just around CNY :-( 2011-01-25 09:33 xiangfu: i had an idea. could you make {clean,compile} another qt app? NanoMap, for instance 2011-01-25 09:34 and see if it works 2011-01-25 09:35 xiangfu: for the mplayer, it's my bad, there was ac=mad in /root/.mplayer/config.. i changed it to tremor now, and ogg files should play fine.. however you could have a look at "mplayer -ac help" for a list of codecs and choose.. 2011-01-25 09:35 ..the one appropriate for your file 2011-01-25 09:37 xiangfu: if NanoMap is broken after rebuild, then this might indicate some problem in your toolchain, perhaps some libs discrepancy 2011-01-25 09:40 kyak: will try rebuild NanoMap, (I guess it will works fine). now I start rebuild NanoMap 2011-01-25 09:43 xiangfu: thanks 2011-01-25 09:56 kyak: ok. finish rebuild NanoMap. works just fine. 2011-01-25 09:56 kyak: there may something relate with 32bit 64 bit system, 2011-01-25 09:56 kyak: there : move :Â Â nethack, qt4-demos, stardict-dit-en-cn, qt4-examples gcc-mips make binutiles xz, totally about 37MB. 2011-01-25 09:56 those will build as modules, not inside ubi rootfs image. 2011-01-25 09:56 ouch, I like them 2011-01-25 09:56 well if it's between you and your image, go ahead you have the power :-) 2011-01-25 09:56 are the qt4-demos and qt4-examples actually working? last time I checked they weren't 2011-01-25 09:56 btw, I've found 3 good looking console mp3 players - cmus, gamp and mp3blaster 2011-01-25 09:56 * panda|x201 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-01-25 09:56 kyak: after install libggi, libgii, libaa, svgalib, giflib, fribidi, libspeex, libtheora, the mplayer working. 2011-01-25 09:56 but can not play the sample audio file in the nanonote. 2011-01-25 09:56 2011-01-25 09:57 * Loaded log from Tue Jan 25 17:45:24 2011 2011-01-25 09:57 2011-01-25 09:57