2011-01-15 01:26 [commit] Joachim Steiger:Â Â v1.3 http://qi-hw.com/p/m1/43ec4d2 2011-01-15 04:44 DocScrutinizer: do you still see anything I should try with the band-pass ? http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/rework-20110113/sim.ps 2011-01-15 04:44 DocScrutinizer: or is it crystal time now ? 2011-01-15 04:45 (the very high parameter stability i have reached now does suggest to me that whatever the problem is, it won't respond to simple tweaks. but of course, maybe there *is* something magic that would work :) 2011-01-15 04:55 what software do you use for the simulation? 2011-01-15 04:57 wolfspraul: me ? qucs 2011-01-15 04:58 it's a bit like spice, but for people who've grown up with guis and not punch cards and fortran mainframes :) 2011-01-15 04:59 in fact, i'd love kicad's eeschema to work like the qucs schematics editor - or to have a means to draw kicad schematics with it. it's extremely nice to use 2011-01-15 05:01 ok thx. learning about a new tool :-) 2011-01-15 05:09 it's great. been using it for years. 2011-01-15 05:32 [commit] Wolfgang Spraul: removed absolute path http://qi-hw.com/p/m1/8afc8d5 2011-01-15 05:32 hmm, i just realize that one could make pcbs thinner by "embedding" tall components. now that would be something to win friends at the fabs :) 2011-01-15 05:43 roh: there is an absolute path to a png file in milkymist-assemble-howto.svg. I removed it before but your new commits brought it back, so I removed it again. 2011-01-15 05:43 see http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/m1/source/commit/8afc8d5/ 2011-01-15 05:43 maybe you can remove it in your original so that it won't come back in the next commit... 2011-01-15 05:44 this is the link: xlink:href="file:///home/labor/Desktop/Kunden/Milkymist-Howto/Mm1_rc1_parts_on_pcb_farb.png" 2011-01-15 05:46 I just made it a local path href="Mm1_rc1_parts_on_pcb_farb.pnt", I think that should work 2011-01-15 05:46 thanks a lot for your updates btw, I'm still amazed by this assembly guide! 2011-01-15 05:46 I will definitely include a nice printout of the guide with every m1, even when they are assembled. 2011-01-15 05:46 it gives a lot of confidence on how to unassemble/repair/open the unit 2011-01-15 05:51 very good idea. maybe do the same for the ben ? 2011-01-15 05:55 btw, regarding the case scans. if you still remember them, it's been so long :) i put them on hold because i needed the mill from time to time for milling and thus didn't have entire half-weeks to assign it to scanning. i did try to finish the main PCB around christmas, but the pc controlling the mill died mid-way through the scan. it's now been replaced but the new machine can't run the proprietary scan software yet (still working on 2011-01-15 05:55 that). so i hope to get to doing the last scans once ben-wpan is finished. i didn't forget them :) 2011-01-15 05:57 wpwrak: oh totally fine. we have a number of 'long wave' stuff moving :-) 2011-01-15 05:58 I think I read about your misfortunes with that machine somewhere a while ago... 2011-01-15 05:59 it actually kept going for about a day with the disk/controller dead. but then the virtualized windows finally crashed :-( 2011-01-15 06:01 I am thinking how we can put more momentum into your ben-wpan work. 2011-01-15 06:01 I want to avoid that they are just some obscure boards that don't really catch on. 2011-01-15 06:01 in my mind it's only a success if, let's say 12 months later, we have significant free software development happening to support them 2011-01-15 06:02 but how to get there? how to get activity up in the Linux kernel? 2011-01-15 06:02 pretty much the only thing I can do is to try to lower the price, which only works if I simplify the whole thing. 2011-01-15 06:02 for example I could only sell them in sets of 4 (2*usb, 2*8:10), but then make that dirt cheap. 2011-01-15 06:03 at least that would give everybody some incentive to make use of all those radiators :-) 2011-01-15 06:03 just thinking... 2011-01-15 06:04 this could be something for the diy/arduino/sparkfun crowd too 2011-01-15 06:07 i think an open "reference design" could already help the other diys 2011-01-15 06:08 that's implicit, no? what would they do with the reference design? 2011-01-15 06:10 my main concern is to kickstart practical (real world) applications 2011-01-15 06:10 most people are afraid of the wrong things with rf. e.g., if you just implement a reference design, you've basically absorbed all the benefit of a module already 2011-01-15 06:10 not just theory, talk 2011-01-15 06:10 I think we are so deep in things, what most people are afraid of is 'hardware' in general. 2011-01-15 06:10 what you still have to solve are antennas and the system integration. there, it helps to have reference data. 2011-01-15 06:10 I think we have to take your work directly into an application. Of course others can use it as a 'reference', it's all open. 2011-01-15 06:10 but I doubt anybody will do that :-) 2011-01-15 06:10 i'm not much worried about the software side. that should be relatively easy. been there, have done it before ;-) 2011-01-15 06:10 we have to show the application ourselves 2011-01-15 06:10 well, you can make a sensor board or such 2011-01-15 06:10 (sw/app) yeah, i meant infrastructure. apps are a different story, agreed 2011-01-15 06:10 I realize more and more how much empty talk there is in hardware. 2011-01-15 06:11 i hope to use wpan for controlling electricity at my home, but that's of course something that's extremely hard to commercialize 2011-01-15 06:11 because so few know much about it, everybody projects their assumptions, but it sounds like gained from a lot of experience where it is actually not. 2011-01-15 06:11 hehe :) 2011-01-15 06:12 so the only way out of that chicken-egg problem is to pull all the way through yourself. 2011-01-15 06:12 make it work, add the software, get the certification, put a box around it, sell it 2011-01-15 06:12 and then 99% of talk will suddenly disappear 2011-01-15 06:13 the day at reichl-emv lab gave me a lot new confidence in this area 2011-01-15 06:13 :-) 2011-01-15 06:13 I already told him I may show up with some strange 802.15.4 boards :-) 2011-01-15 06:14 why is it hard to commercialize controlling electricity? 2011-01-15 06:14 did he have any opinion on 802.15.4 ? 2011-01-15 06:14 lots of local regulations and certifications 2011-01-15 06:14 no [802.15.4] 2011-01-15 06:14 I'm not worried about that [certs] 2011-01-15 06:14 compared to all the work we put into hardware, software, going through some tests/certification procedures is just some more work 2011-01-15 06:14 it's not overwhelming 2011-01-15 06:15 and since its the kind of thing that is infrastructure, it may even be worse - only installable by certified electricians and that sort of stuff 2011-01-15 06:15 I'm in the real world. 2011-01-15 06:15 so one by one. first make it work, then bring it up in usability, including box, manual. and somewhere there are certs too :-) 2011-01-15 06:16 some countries will have nasty regulations, ok fine. 2011-01-15 06:16 there are a number of options to deal with them, country by country :-) 2011-01-15 06:16 the problem i would expect with this sort of certs is that you may need one for each country, not just CE for a while continent 2011-01-15 06:16 as always you pick the low hanging fruits first. 2011-01-15 06:16 maybe, but I'm not worried. 2011-01-15 06:17 perhaps the best would be to partner with companies that already make similar things, provide them with the core circuit and let them worry about the local issues 2011-01-15 06:19 doesn't sound right to me. 2011-01-15 06:19 pull it all the way through yourself, set an example. 2011-01-15 06:19 once you set an example, _maybe_ you can convince others to join. 2011-01-15 06:20 well, you can do that. there are examples for this approach, too 2011-01-15 06:23 another approach to ease things would be to approach a distributor of other systems with similar functionality. they ought to know about pitfalls. 2011-01-15 06:23 there's one in germany for plcbus ... lemme see if i can find them ... 2011-01-15 06:29 hmm. seem to have vanished. here's one in the netherlands: http://www.elekhomica.nl/index.php?cPath=137 2011-01-15 06:32 wpwrak: all EU should be covered by CE 2011-01-15 06:32 and all USA by FCC afaik 2011-01-15 06:33 this zones will give you about 80% of income 2011-01-15 06:34 because of high purchase ability of that zones 2011-01-15 06:35 other interesting countries are Brazil, Argentina, China and Russia.. 2011-01-15 06:37 well.. I should release kexecboot 0.6 2011-01-15 06:37 Jay7: from my NanoNote experience, I'd rate them slightly differently 2011-01-15 06:38 wolfspraul: It would be interesting to hear your rating :) 2011-01-15 06:38 Europe 40% US 30%, those two are easy 2011-01-15 06:38 after that, Australia - very active scene. quite amazing considering that there's only 15 million people there? 2011-01-15 06:38 Japan, same 2011-01-15 06:38 very active, actually if I would have a local Japanese distributor, I might even be able to match the US 2011-01-15 06:39 after that, hmm. 2011-01-15 06:39 Russia? 2011-01-15 06:39 Japanese distributor should be easy to become 2011-01-15 06:39 not easy 2011-01-15 06:39 hm.. then I'm wrong :) 2011-01-15 06:39 wolfspraul: China? 2011-01-15 06:39 the problem is cultural 2011-01-15 06:40 and btw, India 2011-01-15 06:40 no way, China, India, Brazil - without hurting anybody I'd just say 'forget it' 2011-01-15 06:40 they growing 2011-01-15 06:40 hm.. 2011-01-15 06:40 I'm totally wrong then 2011-01-15 06:40 you can throw them in with all other destinations, of course there are always individuals here and there 2011-01-15 06:40 like Werner in Buenos Aires :-) 2011-01-15 06:41 I know _great_ individuals in all those places, but I cannot see something more consistent/structured 2011-01-15 06:41 yeah.. 2011-01-15 06:41 we all need local groups like LUG's 2011-01-15 06:41 eLUG :) 2011-01-15 06:42 I have idea to create embedded linux [hardware] portal 2011-01-15 06:42 so in that list, there would be Belarus, China, South Korea, Brazil, Argentina (Werner :-)), Singapore, and so on. Lots of them. 2011-01-15 06:42 i'm a bit surprised brazil doesn't have more activity. they have a rather active free software scene 2011-01-15 06:42 I have never been there, so don't know. 2011-01-15 06:42 what I hear from the distance sounds very similar to my own extensive experience in China. 2011-01-15 06:43 Ukraine may be interested too 2011-01-15 06:43 yes 2011-01-15 06:43 hey we forgot Colombia :-) 2011-01-15 06:44 maybe after the easy big ones like US/Europe/Japan/Russia/Australia, it's hard to pin down nowadays 2011-01-15 06:44 zrafa: do you know where the jornadas regionales 2011 will be ? 2011-01-15 06:45 I am very glad that I have such a global approach, I will definitely continue with that. 2011-01-15 06:45 have shipped nanos to Martinique, Philippines, Nigeria (yeah), and so on 2011-01-15 06:45 that guy in Nigeria is really cool actually 2011-01-15 06:46 Nigeria have strong free software community 2011-01-15 06:46 I'm not surprised to hear that, but except for that one contact don't have any experience. 2011-01-15 06:46 according to KDE people blogs :) 2011-01-15 06:47 fisl12 (the BIG brazilian free sw event) will be in june 2011 in porto alegre 2011-01-15 06:50 there are direct flights from buenos aires. now even from aeroparque :) 2011-01-15 06:52 wolfspraul: so you can plan your 2011 south america trip accordingly :) 2011-01-15 06:52 my samples are a bit too small for some places (just one or two contacts), but I feel good working with the data we've learnt in the first NanoNote year, and keep my mind and eyes open for new discoveries. 2011-01-15 06:52 the main reason that Japan was so successful was one single journalist who did an extensive review in a large IT magazine 2011-01-15 06:52 from that you get all sorts of contacts, LUGs, etc. 2011-01-15 06:52 so, milkymist to slashdot, the reg, and heise ;) 2011-01-15 06:56 hm.. Eiphel was founded by russian 2011-01-15 06:56 I didn't know that.. 2011-01-15 06:58 oh sure 2011-01-15 06:58 he's a great guy, I visited for 3 days last May 2011-01-15 06:59 the richard stallman of hardware 2011-01-15 07:13 wpwrak: what do you think about writing some of the eeschema/pcbnew output files to stdout instead of a named file? 2011-01-15 07:18 (or accepting input files via stdin, although that's probably even less valuable...) 2011-01-15 07:45 [commit] Wolfgang Spraul: convert dxf into svg instead of png http://qi-hw.com/p/m1/98f4ce1 2011-01-15 07:56 wpwrak: control + j will save my life ! 2011-01-15 07:57 so usefull :-) 2011-01-15 08:30 wolfspraul: stdout could be nice, yes. or being able to pick a name in general. not very high priority, though. you can work around the fixed names easily enough. 2011-01-15 08:30 wpwrak: (jornadas regionales) no yet, but I will check and then I will tell you (last year it was in San Luis) 2011-01-15 08:30 kristianpaul: ;-)) 2011-01-15 08:32 zrafa: let's hope they didn't pick ushuaia ;-) 2011-01-15 08:33 haha 2011-01-15 08:34 wpwrak: fisl in Brazil is huge right? 2011-01-15 08:34 I mean, a big conference 2011-01-15 08:34 zedstar: oh yes. very large. 2011-01-15 08:34 oops, zrafa 2011-01-15 08:45 jornadas regionales de sofware libre? 2011-01-15 08:50 yup 2011-01-15 09:10 argg i hate fedex deliver service here :/ 2011-01-15 09:10 liers ! 2011-01-15 09:12 no saturday delivery then 2011-01-15 09:12 :-| 2011-01-15 09:12 well, i'm not surprised. it's not part of the normal service 2011-01-15 09:12 if you're really in a hurry, what works best is to ask them to leave it at their distribution center and go to pick it up there 2011-01-15 09:13 i'm not inÂ Â hurry i just like push for good service 2011-01-15 09:13 but they advice me yday to waiy for the package for today, whey they dont say the truth then.. 2011-01-15 09:13 how did you find out it's not coming ? 2011-01-15 09:14 at phone call 2011-01-15 09:14 ah :) 2011-01-15 09:14 you can ask them if you can go and pick it up wherever it is now. then you'll at least sleep well tonight :) 2011-01-15 09:15 i'm on that 2011-01-15 09:15 (well, if you have a car. might be in a remote location in cali or such.) 2011-01-15 09:15 calling thirdparty deliver enterprise 2011-01-15 09:15 dont have car 2011-01-15 09:16 iÂ Â was in cali yday i offer go ther and pick but they say, no sir dont worry tomorrow will be deliver 2011-01-15 09:16 argg 2011-01-15 09:16 any way.. 2011-01-15 09:17 you can always make up a story. like you having to travel today and there's something in there you need. tell them that they already failed you yesterday, so now it's really an emergency. 2011-01-15 09:17 whatever works :) 2011-01-15 09:17 if course, if they're closed today, then that won't help either 2011-01-15 09:18 also make sure you ask them what documentation you have to bring to identify yourself 2011-01-15 09:18 yeah np 2011-01-15 09:18 around here, they're surprisingly lax, but that may not be the same everywhere 2011-01-15 09:22 kristianpaul: getting your m1? 2011-01-15 09:22 here are lax for everything.. :| 2011-01-15 09:23 lekernel: fighting to get it sooner ;-) 2011-01-15 09:23 every minute counts :) 2011-01-15 09:23 ok it is somwhere in buga... 2011-01-15 09:24 whee ! 2011-01-15 09:24 wpwrak: so what are the results of RC and XTAL? 2011-01-15 09:24 DocScrutinizer: no discernable change: it's at the bottom of http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/rework-20110113/ 2011-01-15 09:24 DocScrutinizer: click on the simulation diagram for a better readable postscript version 2011-01-15 09:25 I got it 2011-01-15 09:25 XTAL? 2011-01-15 09:26 DocScrutinizer: working on it, yes 2011-01-15 09:26 I'm not sure you'll see any improvement with that either, as to me it's more than unclear if CW really means unmodulated 2011-01-15 09:26 DocScrutinizer: anything you'd suggest to try before the crystal ? 2011-01-15 09:27 nope 2011-01-15 09:27 (cw) well, consider the USB version. there, the "noise hill" is much lower 2011-01-15 09:27 may send data and see if spectrum noticeably changes 2011-01-15 09:27 that's the same chip, with the same settings 2011-01-15 09:28 sending data changes things a LOT ! here's data: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tst-tx/ 2011-01-15 09:28 ooh, ok 2011-01-15 09:28 lol the package from deal extreme i order month ago got today too :p 2011-01-15 09:29 kristianpaul: what's in that one ? 2011-01-15 09:29 wpwrak: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14664 2011-01-15 09:31 kristianpaul: duh, serial cable :) real men build that while on the toilet 2011-01-15 09:31 i built one 2011-01-15 09:32 when realized that may be the package was lost somwhere after taiwan .. 2011-01-15 09:32 heh :) 2011-01-15 09:33 stuff from taiwan can take a while. e.g., EMS tends to be on the way for more than a week 2011-01-15 09:37 heh, I got 2 nice critters here, gift of somebody who wrote a sw to decode: a white block ~20*20*10mm, with a 3.5mm plug for headset receptacle, and a slot to slide your credit card 2011-01-15 09:37 rather nifty 2011-01-15 09:38 clearly iPhart design, but hey 2011-01-15 09:39 DocScrutinizer: the CC is for the built-in iTunes ? :) 2011-01-15 09:40 it seems CC transactions are cheaper when done "online" 2011-01-15 09:41 and you don't have to deal with customer signing papers, or you calling some AmEx clearance hotline to validate the card, or whatever might be involved 2011-01-15 09:42 not completely wrapped my head around the original business model that gave us these sugar cubes for free 2011-01-15 09:43 a tape magnet head in a small white plastic block, connected to AV plug's mic ring 2011-01-15 09:43 if you have to call to validate, you still need to do that for online transactions. of course, in practical terms, this means that you'll never get that transaction processed 2011-01-15 09:45 honestly, I'm not too interested in the original usecase. It's just a nifty card reader for CC track 3(?) 2011-01-15 09:46 wondering if preparing my own cards with music on magnet tape would make some weirdo scratch machine 2011-01-15 09:47 the digital info on my CC doesn't sound too interesting ;-) 2011-01-15 09:49 or building a real magnetic tape recorder ;-D 2011-01-15 09:49 a very short one :) 2011-01-15 09:50 oh no, it's only monophonic, that's not good enough for a tape recorder 2011-01-15 09:50 nah, I thought about using real 1/2" tape on reels to run thru the sugarcube :-) 2011-01-15 09:53 just for the fun of it - of course no real life usecase whatsoever, except baffling people 2011-01-15 09:55 you could stick a 21cm tape snippet at the edge of every page of a book. Maybe nice for kids, or ornithologists 2011-01-15 09:55 more impressive if it can make sounds from a credit card 2011-01-15 09:57 you can take the CC as a source of random numbers, then feed this into a generator of good-sounding tones (following musical theory). that way, each CC would have its own characteristic melody 2011-01-15 09:57 event cards for games (monopoly, whatever) come to mind as well 2011-01-15 09:57 kristianpaul: so, how is the adventure going ? 2011-01-15 09:57 DocScrutinizer: playing cards. with hidden information in a magnetic strip ;-) 2011-01-15 10:00 I wonder what a card deck for blind people might be like 2011-01-15 10:00 braille ? 2011-01-15 10:01 you'd not want that to get read and maybe even seen by peers and the the card dealer 2011-01-15 10:02 so yeah, punch hole braille with a uniform backside second card glued to it might work 2011-01-15 10:10 http://www.marland.de/produkte/c/kartenspiele/p/kartenspiel-blinden-skat-franzoesisches-blatt/Â Â hmm, they don't mention if it's punch-hole or usual braille - with "bubbles" 2011-01-15 10:18 better single-sided bubbles. that way, they could also play with people who can see 2011-01-15 10:18 bubbles are bad when mixing the cards. You don't want the deck to pile up 3 times the usual hight 2011-01-15 10:19 so little dents, halfway depth into the card are better than protruding bubbles 2011-01-15 10:20 still the card dealer easily could read ec 2011-01-15 10:20 each card he hands out 2011-01-15 10:25 well, poker is a hard game to play, for vision impaired people, it seems 2011-01-15 10:28 [commit] David KÃ¼hling: added swig: Simplified Wrapper and Interface Generator (for host toolchain) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/a6e6dff 2011-01-15 10:37 [commit] David KÃ¼hling: plplot: make lua bindings work http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/0f9e96c 2011-01-15 11:26 wpwrak: package is next to me now :-D 2011-01-15 11:26 looks for a CRT monitor and a usb mouse 2011-01-15 11:31 the package was deliver by an old man i a bycicle!! 2011-01-15 11:36 kristianpaul: ;-)) 2011-01-15 11:36 kristianpaul: at least not by donkey rider ;-) 2011-01-15 11:38 sigh. board gets almost 6 mm longer :-( 2011-01-15 11:44 and 0.4 mm wider 2011-01-15 11:56 argg crt and no image 2011-01-15 11:56 lets try lcd display 2011-01-15 11:56 kristianpaul: you mean on the m1? 2011-01-15 11:56 do you see the 3 leds next to the buttons? 2011-01-15 11:56 when you power it, one of them should go green 2011-01-15 11:57 then you need to press one of the buttons, I think the middle one? forgot... 2011-01-15 11:57 then it will actually turn on/boot 2011-01-15 11:58 ah wait 2011-01-15 11:59 when it boots, a second led will go green 2011-01-15 11:59 then after about 2-3 seconds, you should see something via vga 2011-01-15 11:59 it boots pretty fast 2011-01-15 12:00 yay ! 2011-01-15 12:00 lol flckrnoise is ugly indeed :p 2011-01-15 12:02 kristianpaul: now you should say how much prettier X-based things are (-:C 2011-01-15 12:06 hmm i need a cable for the audio in.. 2011-01-15 12:06 yes, I think in the future I will include a audio line cable 2011-01-15 12:06 sorry right now I don't have them yet :-) 2011-01-15 12:07 the sufferings of the early adopters :-) 2011-01-15 12:07 np 2011-01-15 12:07 it's one of those things that everybody needs with an m1, but many people will not have, or not find 2011-01-15 12:07 then they have to buy one for 10-20 usd 2011-01-15 12:07 where I can source them most likely for < 1 usd 2011-01-15 12:07 :/ 2011-01-15 12:08 dont scare me ! 2011-01-15 12:08 just yesterday I was going through my piles of stuff here trying to find one - no avail 2011-01-15 12:08 kristianpaul: maybe you find one somewhere, just go through your household :-) 2011-01-15 12:09 I will probably include one at some point... 2011-01-15 12:18 wpwrak: this is how the only somehow working X based gui looks like: http://www.microwindows.org/SSWin32.html 2011-01-15 12:18 may I reassure you, the flickernoise toolkit, even if not perfect, does a much better job than that 2011-01-15 12:18 the fact that there is no alternative is just sad 2011-01-15 12:19 anyway the mtk appearance can certainly be improved a lot with some work 2011-01-15 12:19 and less work than porting X-windows, for a better result in the end 2011-01-15 12:22 but since you like X-Windows so much, wpwrak, why not try to port it to get a taste of its crappiness? 2011-01-15 12:22 same with linux... 2011-01-15 12:23 though the linux kernel isn't crappy, but gcc is :) 2011-01-15 12:25 and the theobroma lm32 port 2011-01-15 12:25 yeah, that too, maybe even worse than gcc :) 2011-01-15 12:26 lekernel: i once had a quick look at kdrive and it didn't look too nasty. not sure if it has everything you'd want on mm1, though. 2011-01-15 12:26 get graphics accelerations and GTK/Qt to work on that then... 2011-01-15 12:27 kdrive is an xserver 2011-01-15 12:27 FYI the LM32 GCC toolchain is so broken that it mistakes some Qt C++ methods for the class's destructors, with the results you can imagine 2011-01-15 12:27 besides, Qt is mega-bloated, a hello world app is 22M 2011-01-15 12:28 lekernel: rounding errors when calculating the index in the method table ? :) 2011-01-15 12:29 not sure how you'd imagine fitting those 22MB + application payload + fpga bitstream + backup versions of those in a 32MB flash, that should also contain a user filesystem 2011-01-15 12:29 mtk/rtems, for all their faults, allow this very easily 2011-01-15 12:31 lekernel: i once had a bootable linux with the X11 server on a 1.44 MB floppy :) but o 2011-01-15 12:31 s/o/i'd rather not touch qt's c++/ 2011-01-15 12:34 yeah, with twm and xterm? 2011-01-15 12:37 lekernel: where are the rtems sources? 2011-01-15 12:37 I tried getting an overview over the sources but couldn't find them 2011-01-15 12:38 you have 13 repositories here :-) https://github.com/lekernel/ 2011-01-15 12:38 https://github.com/fallen/rtems-milkymist ... should be ready to be merged upstream soon 2011-01-15 12:38 ahh, 'fallen' 2011-01-15 12:38 ok thx 2011-01-15 12:47 ok finally got/buy the cable for 1.2usd 2011-01-15 12:47 lekernel: not sure if there was space for that much ;-) 2011-01-15 12:48 wpwrak: I have a product for visual artists to get out of the door. not some thin client toy for nerds who play with cisco routers in their spare time. it's too expensive for them anyway 2011-01-15 12:49 lekernel: well, that was for compatibility testing 2011-01-15 12:49 i guess is okay if i plug some usb powered speakers to the mm1 2011-01-15 12:49 kristianpaul: yes it is 2011-01-15 12:49 ah wait , dont have more usb ports avaliable >:-| 2011-01-15 12:49 there's a ~1A combined current limit for both ports 2011-01-15 12:50 yup. maybe a nice accessory could be a passive USB port "duplicator" 2011-01-15 12:50 actually many people are 'overloading' that max usb current 2011-01-15 12:51 sometimes with non-standard chargers that can go to 1A 2011-01-15 12:51 yeah, that's why I put the limit on both ports, so they can draw 1A from one port if they don't load the second 2011-01-15 12:51 or sometimes because they just give more amps than 500mA, for example on a Mac Pro you can easily draw 750 mA 2011-01-15 12:51 there you go, you do it too :-) 2011-01-15 12:52 there's some margin too before the polyswitch trips, I don't remember how much...Â Â at about 1.4A or something 2011-01-15 12:52 thats cool ! 2011-01-15 12:52 so the USB current limit isn't really enforced, it's more a protection against short circuits 2011-01-15 12:52 and toght i never used winamap efects 2011-01-15 12:52 this is sometimes a problem one can overlook when designing a device. say you always test with your mac, but your device draws 700mA. then later with some other host it won't work... 2011-01-15 12:53 from my infinite collection of stupid hardware design mistakes... 2011-01-15 12:53 if you stick to the norm USB current limits are crazy, there is for instance the "suspend mode" you are supposed to go into when you don't get regular polls from the host 2011-01-15 12:54 that one gave me some more headaches with the usb host design, because if you mess up the polls, your device goes into suspend mode and ignore whatever you send 2011-01-15 12:54 and it gives some headaches to device designers too, because there's a very low current limit for suspend mode 2011-01-15 12:55 hundreds of microamps iirc 2011-01-15 12:55 counting the current draw from the detection pull-up resistor you must place on one of the the data lines 2011-01-15 12:56 and the USB norm mandates the suspend mode 2011-01-15 12:56 it's really a fucked up standard 2011-01-15 12:59 in practice this is never respected, many passive USB gadgets draw hundreds of milliamps while supposedly being a device in suspend mode 2011-01-15 12:59 and I have never seen one malfunction :) 2011-01-15 13:00 (i.e. coffee heaters, lamps, etc. that have no communication features whatsoever with the USB host) 2011-01-15 13:06 wowÂ Â interwomen forÂ Â patch 2011-01-15 13:07 woven* 2011-01-15 13:07 wolfspraul: uh. i see.. how did you change the path? manually? 2011-01-15 13:15 hey, Milkymist One dint have implicit hardware RESET buton, is this the begin of a new era? ;-) 2011-01-15 13:15 it has, press the 3 buttons at the same time 2011-01-15 13:16 ah 2011-01-15 13:16 and release the button close to the LEDs first, otherwise this will enable manual DRAM timing calibration mode 2011-01-15 13:17 (if you enable this mode, which you can notice from a strange pattern on the screen, just reset again) 2011-01-15 13:20 yup 2011-01-15 13:29 wolfspraul: hmm, there's a small mechanical problem with the 8:10 card slot of the ben: when it "locks", it merely discourages the card from leaving on its own, but it doesn't really hold it. 2011-01-15 13:30 wolfspraul: with wpan, this means that you can accidently loosen the card (or remove it entirely, if you apply enough force) 2011-01-15 13:30 wolfspraul: you can also do this with a regular uSD card - it's just harder to grab it 2011-01-15 13:33 hmm, quite usual concept, it seems 2011-01-15 13:38 probably. could be considered a feature. i just noticed that it comes out quite easily, despite already being a bit thicker and wider than the original. 2011-01-15 13:49 with my EeePC 701 I got in TPE, I complained about it's so hard to get out the SD card, and I sticked some tape to the card. Until somebody laughed at me and explained to my I need to push in the card to make it come out. Anyway no latch or whatever is fixing the card there 2011-01-15 13:54 and actually there's no notch or anything in a SD card, for a latch to hold it in slot. Only thing you could do is "close the slot door" 2011-01-15 13:55 on a slot like in EeePC where SD card protrudes ~0.5..1mm, that's not an option as well 2011-01-15 13:57 look at the card carefully - there is a notch. it just doesn't go through the whole card 2011-01-15 13:58 err no, it actually does 2011-01-15 13:58 on the side where one contact is retracted 2011-01-15 14:20 yes I know this already 2011-01-15 14:20 not much we can do, I think 2011-01-15 14:22 probably not. just something to keep in mind. 2011-01-15 15:37 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusd: use crystal instead of trying to obtain an external clock from the Ben http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c0941db 2011-01-15 15:37 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusd: added missing connection for SLP_TR http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/507bcaf 2011-01-15 15:39 grmbl. only 1.5 toner transfer sheets left. and it seems that HP paper no longer gets imported here :-( 2011-01-15 16:15 wpwrak: you're right, I missed that notchie 2011-01-15 16:16 [commit] kyak: Tile: count moves http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/cccd60c 2011-01-15 16:46 [commit] kyak: qball: updated to 1.2, dropped merged patch http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/c1fb2a3 2011-01-15 16:48 [commit] kyak: qball: really drop the patch :) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e78146d 2011-01-15 17:39 he tricky adjust buttons :-) 2011-01-15 17:47 hey guys i got a problem my pc keeps restarting constantly 2011-01-15 17:47 erion: wrong channel, sorry 2011-01-15 17:47 wat channel do i go to? 2011-01-15 17:49 ask on #help e.g. 2011-01-15 18:28 and this is what the board with crystal will look like: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/usdxtal.jpg 2011-01-15 18:31 wpwrak_: wifi? 2011-01-15 18:38 LunohoD: much better. 802.15.4 with 6LoWPAN (later) 2011-01-15 18:41 wolfspraul: dont forget the 64Mb of ram special edition for Ron 2011-01-15 18:41 and 1024x768 2011-01-15 18:43 wpwrak_: (board) is a monster ! 2011-01-15 18:44 in the good sense :-) 2011-01-15 18:46 zrafa: hah yes! 2011-01-15 18:46 "isn't it time to discuss 64 mb" 2011-01-15 18:47 NO 2011-01-15 18:47 what inspiration! 2011-01-15 18:47 my nn has 32MB! 2011-01-15 18:47 if next bunch has 64mb our current nns will have still 32mB RON! 2011-01-15 18:47 :P 2011-01-15 18:47 very good answer 2011-01-15 18:55 kristianpaul: (monster) yeah, it's quite big :-( maybe i can shrink it a little by rotating the crystal, but i'm not sure. the problem is that putting the crystal "upright" would mean that the traces would have a larger detour and this also means that they would need more room for the bend 2011-01-15 18:57 wolfspraul: sigh. how will you ever make money with that attitude ? :) make the old product obsolete, so people have to buy new ones. consume ! consume ! consume ! ;-) 2011-01-15 18:58 strangely (and perhaps fortunately), Ron doesn't comment much on milkymist :) 2011-01-15 18:58 lekernel: enjoy the quiet while it lasts :) 2011-01-15 18:59 I cannot really imagine what he'd say and ask, but i'm a bit afraid 2011-01-15 19:00 lekernel: he's good at finding the weak spots. so just think of what doesn't work well :) 2011-01-15 19:06 yes, exactly 2011-01-15 19:06 but for now he doesn't know what to compare it to 2011-01-15 19:07 when he has that it will start 2011-01-15 19:09 how did you meet this guy btw...? 2011-01-15 19:09 hmm. forgot. he was always around :-) 2011-01-15 19:13 i think he somehow pop-ed up while moko 2011-01-15 19:14 he's our bad conscience. our collective moment of doubt. a bit like the monster in "forbidden planet" :) 2011-01-15 19:15 wpwrak_: heh... i sank another day into micromanagement yesterday 2011-01-15 19:15 calculating details... .. sourcing sucks 2011-01-15 19:15