2011-01-11 00:48 kristianpaul: well, i guess that proves the point that there are things much worse than hell ;-) 2011-01-11 08:08 zrafa: oooh ... no povray in jlime. pity. 2011-01-11 08:19 wpwrak: is the license of povray something okey for qi?.. it was free but no for business? 2011-01-11 08:19 wpwrak: anyway it should not have problems any kind right? 2011-01-11 08:19 if so, I can upload :) 2011-01-11 08:20 zrafa: ah, right, i forgot about that weird license. don't know really if that's considered okay or not. probably okay. 2011-01-11 08:21 (someone really ought to write a free alternative. a non-commercial license is highly ridiculous in this day and age) 2011-01-11 08:54 wpwrak: if you are okey I will upload povray 3.6.1-r2 to extra packages ;) 2011-01-11 09:02 lemme check the license 2011-01-11 09:08 imo povray code contains a lot of legacy contributions and the licensing stuff came kind of late into it 2011-01-11 09:08 which might explain the extra weirdness 2011-01-11 09:08 or rather afair, not imo. 2011-01-11 09:09 i think this serves nicely as an example for how not to write your license: http://www.povray.org/distribution-license.html 2011-01-11 09:09 yes 2011-01-11 09:10 nods 2011-01-11 09:10 in cad/cam related, you can also find thos kind of lincenses 2011-01-11 09:10 i think openscad uses one, but not body cares.. 2011-01-11 09:11 uses one lib with no nice license 2011-01-11 09:11 2.1: does jlime constitute "a generally recognised Distribution" ? they use the term and give examples but fail to define the term. 2011-01-11 09:11 2.4.a directly contradicts 3.3 2011-01-11 09:13 3.2: what is "other consideration of any type" ? material favours ? gratitude ? praise ? 2011-01-11 09:14 gratitude? 2011-01-11 09:15 Btw simd instructions on amd-64-like procesor supports 8 bits data type? 2011-01-11 09:15 i guess 16 bits should be fine, but i will bloat the sample even MORE 2011-01-11 09:16 3.1.b makes a strong assumption about technology and its use in a specific setting (not relevant to our scenario, but dubious anyway) 2011-01-11 09:19 there is also no clear indication of whether distribution of pre-compiled binaries is allowed 2011-01-11 09:20 (or i haven't found it) 2011-01-11 09:22 4.5. is slightly ambiguous. also implies a maintenance obligation. 2011-01-11 09:23 generally, i have a low opinion of people who insist on non-commercial licenses or licenses with other kinds of ideological etc. restrictions. this fine example does little to change my opinion. 2011-01-11 09:24 also, the distribution license may actually not apply, e.g., in case there are patches. let's see what the modification license has to say ... 2011-01-11 09:29 interesting, in http://www.povray.org/source-license.html, 2.2.f disallows bug fixes 2011-01-11 09:39 at least the modification license implicitly allows distribution of binaries 2011-01-11 09:43 3.2 of the modification license if confusing, too. does it mean that the terms of the distribution license applies in addition to the modification license or in parallel ? 2011-01-11 10:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POV-Ray has an encouraging-sounding "A complete rewrite of POV-Ray ("POV-Ray 4.0") is currently under discussion, which would use a more liberal license, most likely GPL v3.", but then the article this points to is from september 2007. more than three years and still only "under discussion" ? 2011-01-11 10:17 hmm, http://www.renderpixie.com/ doesn't look bad. LGPL and uses renderman for scene descriptions 2011-01-11 10:19 lol: I just found people selling graphite paint for the EMC ...of houses 2011-01-11 10:19 for those "electrosensitive" people 2011-01-11 10:20 lekernel: nice business idea ;-))) 2011-01-11 10:23 lekernel: and i suppose their "feinstaub" (respirable dust) sensitive neighbours can the sue them ... 2011-01-11 11:39 lol, I just got a spam from an ARM partner who invites me to a seminar to "help me understand the benefits of embedded Linux". are they trolling me or...? 2011-01-11 13:08 lekernel: i guess their oracle told them that you're not entirely convinced yet :) 2011-01-11 13:16 lekernel: so h:D is the only "official" distributor for the MM1 ? (and indeed, sharism.cc don't have it. i thought wolfgang once mentioned something like only USD 350) 2011-01-11 14:28 anyone know if the kicad pcb file has been made available yet for the nano note? 2011-01-11 14:31 wpwrak: for now... but others are coming 2011-01-11 14:58 some good ... some quite awful :-(  http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tst-cw/ 2011-01-11 15:00 lekernel: (others) ah, good. the detour via europe would make it something like 40% more expensive for non-EU customers. 2011-01-11 15:00 prpplague: afaik, there are no kicad pcb files for the nanonote. the design was done with some proprietary EDA program. 2011-01-11 15:01 well you can get them straight from sharism as well if it makes more sense to you (just mail Wolfgang)... btw the price Wolfgang talked about is without taxes and shipping 2011-01-11 15:01 prpplague: the kicad schematics that exist of the ben are (manual) copies of the proprietary original 2011-01-11 15:04 lekernel: (S&T) yup, that's why i wrote "non-EU". 2011-01-11 15:05 we're totally open to new distributors, you could even open/recommend one in Argentina if you want :) 2011-01-11 15:06 lekernel: zrafa seems to know some folks who work with this kind of stuff. i guess he'll ping them. you never know what may crawl out of this. 2011-01-11 15:09 wpwrak: this will all improve a lot over the next few months. 2011-01-11 15:10 I think I can be optimistic that a number of people will help, in the US, Europe, India, maybe Japan. We see. 2011-01-11 15:10 it's just a lot of work and more details need to come together, but right now the hackable-devices shop is great! 2011-01-11 15:13 yeah, looks good. i was just surprised that you "advertized" it here as being available from sharism, but it's not yet visible in the sharism shop 2011-01-11 15:15 it's not so easy to start it. 2011-01-11 15:15 if we make a real launch now, there will be 100 orders and they cannot be fulfilled. 2011-01-11 15:15 so it's a mix of things. I am very happy that some people start selling, and slowly the stuff trickles out. 2011-01-11 15:15 in parallel I can work on the case, certification, pictures, box, etc. 2011-01-11 15:16 this is only the beginning :-) 2011-01-11 15:16 the Ben NanoNote launch was also messy, but you weren't closely following back then yet 2011-01-11 15:17 okay, so you're ramping up google-style :) 2011-01-11 15:17 it's a mix of priorities 2011-01-11 15:17 on one hand we are selling early boards 2011-01-11 15:18 on the other hand we need to start to jump into the cold water and give it to people who give feedback 2011-01-11 15:22 sure. ramping up is good. i was even surprised that you already had enough cases to offer them for sale 2011-01-11 15:22 wpwrak: so those tst-cw pictures show that atusd creates a lot of noise on neighboring channels, unlike atusb? 2011-01-11 15:22 yes, there's a very ugly amount of noise 2011-01-11 15:22 interesting 2011-01-11 15:23 did you see this before on atusd, or was it introduced at some point? 2011-01-11 15:23 unfortunately, i don't have the same kind of data from older atusd boards, so i don't know if it's something new i introduced or if they were always like this 2011-01-11 15:23 i can do this specific test only with the latest boards 2011-01-11 15:24 the older ones (with the old chip) would have needed an extra signal to enter this test mode. 2011-01-11 15:30 added some more data from older boards. the usb line looks pretty consistent. 2011-01-11 15:35 wpwrak:  thanks, i thought i had read that the project had switched to kicad 2011-01-11 15:36 prpplague: many new things are using kicad 2011-01-11 15:36 yes indeed 2011-01-11 15:37 is actually trying to migrate from altium to kicad hence his question 2011-01-11 15:37 wpwrak: was wanting to grab a few reference schematics to have a look at 2011-01-11 15:38 wpwrak: got any urls for other projects using kicad? 2011-01-11 15:38 prpplague: if what you need is a first impression, perhaps ben-wpan or xue could be useful. they have schematics and a layout too. they're simpler than the ben, though. xue a bit, ben-wpan a lot. 2011-01-11 15:39 prpplague: here's an overview of the ones with kicad schematics: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/ 2011-01-11 15:39 case ! 2011-01-11 15:39 wpwrak: naw, i've done three small boards so far with kicad, was looking for some more compilicated multi sheet schematics to get an idea of normal workflow 2011-01-11 15:40 prpplague: the first seven should all also have a layout 2011-01-11 15:40 wpwrak: thanks, i'll have a look 2011-01-11 16:05 hmm, the smeared spectrum also shows in "real" transmissions, just not as clearly. the difference in duty cycle (atusd currenly has a faster turn-around time than atusb) makes it a bit difficult to produce things that can be easily compared. i think i need to add a local hammering mode to atusb and get rid of the repeated frame download in both cases. 2011-01-11 16:06 well, the hammering can wait for atusd to atusd comparison 2011-01-11 16:07 and i've already eliminated the frame download in this mode. hah, that's planning ahead ! ;-) 2011-01-11 16:49 "Remember that you need to use as much information as you have => use" 2011-01-11 16:49 the magnitude too. Best GNSS front ends are 4 or 8 bits. It is true 2011-01-11 16:49 that there is not so much advantage to use more than 4 bits but the 2011-01-11 16:49 more you have the better, especially for indoor applications. 2011-01-11 16:50                                                 ^^^^^ 2011-01-11 16:50                                           ^^^^^ 2011-01-11 16:51 wpwrak: so, resuming more bits the better :'-) 2011-01-11 16:52 and tought that i was a about to kill the magnitude :/ 2011-01-11 16:52 it's half a bit of extra data ;-) 2011-01-11 16:53 did anyone explain what to do with -0 vs. +0 ? 2011-01-11 16:53 i.e., are they both 0 or maybe -0.5 and +0.5 ? 2011-01-11 16:53 (and -1/+1 would then be -1.5 and +1.5 respectively) 2011-01-11 16:54 or scale according to your liking ;-) 2011-01-11 16:54 i think it depends of the resolution of your frontend 2011-01-11 16:55 less meanfull will if you have more resolutions bits 2011-01-11 16:55 i mean: how to interpret the data. are "-0"/"+0" the same ? or is "-0" < "+0" ? 2011-01-11 16:56 in the latter case, is "+1" - "+0" = "+0" - "-0" = "-0" - "-1" ? 2011-01-11 17:02 "-0" < "+0" sounds logic 2011-01-11 17:03 = i will not said, may be just an aproximate 2011-01-11 17:04 perhaps you can ask the person(s) who gave you the advice you quoted above 2011-01-11 17:04 sure 2011-01-11 17:04 i'll NO 2011-01-11 17:04 NOW 2011-01-11 17:04 and if the answer is "it depends" -> sige :) 2011-01-11 17:04 kNOW ;-) 2011-01-11 17:04 "it depends" -> sige = for sure 2 bits adc is not smoething you can trust that much 2011-01-11 17:05 well the AGC and nother analog steps in that chip dedeserve a look 2011-01-11 17:05 deserve* 2011-01-11 17:05 huh, why would a 2 bit ADC less trustworthy when it comes to the meaning of the values ? 2011-01-11 17:06 less  trustworthy for -0 i mean 2011-01-11 17:06 yes, but why ? 2011-01-11 17:06 it's a question of definition 2011-01-11 17:06 dont knwo let me ask this guy (fabrizio) 2011-01-11 17:07 if -0 and +0 are supposed to be different codepoints, when saying that you can't trust the difference is the same as saying that you can't trust the distinction between, say, +0 and +1. 2011-01-11 17:08 no, well may be, cause +1 -1 is a signal peak, but values nears to 0.. 2011-01-11 17:09 hmm 2011-01-11 17:09 the basic question is: if an ADC produces this kind of data stream, what would be the "standard" interpretation. it could be that you really have -1, 0, +1, with the sign of 0 being noise, or 2011-01-11 17:10 it could be that there is information in the sign of 0, or it could be that this format is extremely unusual and there's no clear expectation. 2011-01-11 17:11 copying and pasting questions from wpwrak 2011-01-11 17:14 :) 2011-01-11 17:15 sent 2011-01-11 17:16 gota run home, read you later ! 2011-01-11 17:16 happy running ! :) 2011-01-11 17:24 well, i'll toy with my spectrum a bit later, when the grumbling of the nearby wlans has ceased ... 2011-01-11 19:52 wpwrak: no povray then? 2011-01-11 19:55 zrafa: it seems to be difficult ... 2011-01-11 22:48 wpwrak: ah okey. Anyway, the packages built fine so if some time we need those no extra work needed