2010-12-28 05:24 <kristianpaul> morning
2010-12-28 05:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Wolfgang Spraul: added pcbnew --fill-all-zones, stricter option semantics http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/dd9db75
2010-12-28 05:47 <zrafa> wolfspraul: yes, I lost the web page of the fatfingershell. And the web page had a copy of the sources as well IIRC
2010-12-28 05:47 <wolfspraul> saw it :-)
2010-12-28 05:47 <wolfspraul> oh well
2010-12-28 05:48 <wolfspraul> those servers are really maintenance heavy, and except for empty promises there is no support to kick them alive and keep them running
2010-12-28 05:48 <wolfspraul> if you really have no copy, it might be hard to make it through to the backups, even though they exist of course
2010-12-28 05:49 <wolfspraul> how about google cache? internet archives?
2010-12-28 05:49 <wolfspraul> I think they are trying to restructure the virtual machines a little right now, if you are lucky then maybe it might reappear after a little while :-)
2010-12-28 05:50 <zrafa> internet archives did not find
2010-12-28 05:50 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: ah, hey. I just committed the --fill-all-zones patch
2010-12-28 05:50 <zrafa> my backup is a little old, maybe I can survive with that
2010-12-28 05:50 <wolfspraul> yeah, sorry about that but I also cannot help.
2010-12-28 05:51 <wolfspraul> I also made the checking a bit stricter, I only allow one major command now, and hopefully the problem with stale lock files is also gone.
2010-12-28 05:51 <wolfspraul> I guess I will go back to eeschema soon
2010-12-28 05:52 <wolfspraul> let me know if you need more in pcbnew
2010-12-28 05:54 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (fill-all-zones) yipee ! and you saw that i had added kicad-patches to eda-tools. perfect !
2010-12-28 05:54 <wolfspraul> yes sure, I saw it. great. I committed there (just before you came back)
2010-12-28 05:54 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (more) for now i'm very happy, thanks ! ;-)
2010-12-28 05:55 <wolfspraul> Adam posted a great mail about jtag-serial sourcing and production process. I need to read it in detail...
2010-12-28 05:56 <wolfspraul> I think this is fantastic... http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-December/006642.html
2010-12-28 05:56 <wolfspraul> so much work to document it all :-)
2010-12-28 05:56 <wolfspraul> when I'm finished with the cmdline options in eeschema and pcbnew, I will definitely bring it live on the server and auto-generate a lot of these files upon commits
2010-12-28 05:57 <wolfspraul> I think just the latest version, not as sophisticated as schhist
2010-12-28 05:57 <wolfspraul> maybe something like projects.qi-hardware.com/plots/xue/...
2010-12-28 05:58 <wolfspraul> 'plots' may not be the best name
2010-12-28 05:58 <wpwrak> i gues i should give "brdhist" a spin. should be a bit easier than "schhist", because there aren
2010-12-28 05:58 <wpwrak> t so many names to track
2010-12-28 05:58 <wolfspraul> I think there will be plots, drc/erc reports, visualizations (png/svg)
2010-12-28 05:58 <wpwrak> one problem are more external dependencies, especially the .mod files derived from .fpd
2010-12-28 05:59 <wolfspraul> ah, also bom files, modules position
2010-12-28 05:59 <wolfspraul> any good idea for a url name?
2010-12-28 05:59 <wolfspraul> we have /schhist/project right now
2010-12-28 05:59 <wolfspraul> maybe /brdhist/project later
2010-12-28 05:59 <wolfspraul> maybe just /files/project ?
2010-12-28 05:59 <wolfspraul> maybe files is better than plots?
2010-12-28 06:00 <wolfspraul> or 'auto' to indicate that they are a bit in flux
2010-12-28 06:00 <wolfspraul> so if you link to a .drc file in that url, the file you are linking to may be different 2 months later
2010-12-28 06:00 <wolfspraul> so maybe projects.qi-hardware.com/auto/project/...
2010-12-28 06:01 <wpwrak> hmm, dunno.
2010-12-28 06:01 <wolfspraul> or of course we forget about wasting storage bits, and just create the files for each commit, and keep them in a subfolder with the commit guid/revision
2010-12-28 06:02 <wolfspraul> and a 'latest' symlink
2010-12-28 06:02 <wpwrak> plus the overview page ?
2010-12-28 06:02 <wolfspraul> that's probably cleaner in terms of linking, but I'm a little worried people will be overwhelmed
2010-12-28 06:02 <wolfspraul> of course we can just point to the latest symlink
2010-12-28 06:03 <wolfspraul> yeah maybe that's better. keep the auto-generated files for each revision.
2010-12-28 06:03 <wpwrak> i'm not sure you really need to generate all the production files there. at some point, the person making the production run will probably have to touch kicad anyway. then it's more important to have a good set of local tools (e.g., a Makefile)
2010-12-28 06:04 <wolfspraul> I agree, but I want to create those files to lower the barrier of entry into the project in general.
2010-12-28 06:04 <wolfspraul> and since I don't know the starting point of the person on the other side, I just create the files as a first step towards them
2010-12-28 06:04 <wpwrak> ah, one snap with auto-generated files: name changes. right now, the name in revision X depends also on the file's history
2010-12-28 06:04 <wolfspraul> also I don't want to create 'all' files
2010-12-28 06:04 <wpwrak> (in schhist)
2010-12-28 06:04 <wolfspraul> either we understand what it's good for, and can recommend/document them, or not generate at all
2010-12-28 06:05 <wolfspraul> generating junk is no service to anybody, no worries
2010-12-28 06:05 <wolfspraul> I will not generate all files only because we have so many command line options now :-)
2010-12-28 06:06 <wolfspraul> well, first decision is whether to generate them only for the latest commit, or for every revision with 'latest' symlink
2010-12-28 06:06 <wolfspraul> then the url name, I'm torn between 'files' and 'auto'. Maybe I still like 'auto' the best.
2010-12-28 06:06 <wolfspraul> also like you said to indicate that those files are not really meant as a stable source for production.
2010-12-28 06:07 <wpwrak> i think schhist covers pretty much everything you'd want on the schematics side
2010-12-28 06:08 <wpwrak> now something similar for the layout, and perhaps svg for "pretty" overviews. maybe DRC/ERC reports.
2010-12-28 06:09 <wolfspraul> also bom & modules position, people may want to peek in there
2010-12-28 06:09 <wolfspraul> you have no idea how often I get stupid questions like "where is the bom?"
2010-12-28 06:09 <wolfspraul> "if you have no bom you are not open"
2010-12-28 06:09 <wolfspraul> bla bla bla
2010-12-28 06:09 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-12-28 06:10 <wolfspraul> not that I am really thinking those people will ever produce anything, but the word 'bom' has made quite the rounds...
2010-12-28 06:10 <wpwrak> okay, the bom too, yes :)
2010-12-28 06:11 <wolfspraul> what I want at the beginning is erc/drc, then some svgs
2010-12-28 06:11 <wpwrak> bom is nice to have - gives you a rough idea of what's in this circuit and how expensive it may be.
2010-12-28 06:11 <wolfspraul> what do you think about creating them (and saving) for each revision, versus only for the latest one?
2010-12-28 06:12 <wpwrak> i'm not so sure about module positions per se. perhaps a searchable PDF ...
2010-12-28 06:12 <wolfspraul> that's one thing we need to decide
2010-12-28 06:12 <wolfspraul> yes correct, searchable is good, also searchable placement PDF
2010-12-28 06:12 <wolfspraul> gotta run
2010-12-28 06:13 <wolfspraul> (I read the irclogs)
2010-12-28 06:13 <wpwrak> hmm, per version could be useful if you want a URL to "pin" a version
2010-12-28 06:13 <wpwrak> beyond that, it's probably not very useful without a proper history mechanism
2010-12-28 06:22 <mth> online translator for datasheet PDFs: http://datasheet-en.or.cz/
2010-12-28 06:23 <mth> it seems to use Google for the actual translation, but it gets the text from the PDF automatically
2010-12-28 08:48 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: How was the workshop?
2010-12-28 08:51 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: I didn't go there :-)
2010-12-28 08:52 <kristianpaul> oh ok
2010-12-28 08:52 <wolfspraul> I should have, but I stumbled around the building on 3 different things and plain and simple missed it.
2010-12-28 08:52 <wolfspraul> I'm focusing on the cases...
2010-12-28 08:52 <kristianpaul> sure :-)
2010-12-28 08:52 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: you don't know how creative (chaotic) this is here...
2010-12-28 08:53 <kristianpaul> :-)
2010-12-28 08:53 <kristianpaul> as chaotic as the streaming i hope ;-)
2010-12-28 09:06 <wolfspraul> andres-calderon: I was wondering the other day - why does the Aptina sensor need a separate power supply?
2010-12-28 09:06 <wolfspraul> can't we get the power from the main board power supply and/or from the fpga?
2010-12-28 09:11 <andres-calderon> The sensor does not need a separate PSU. But  is better to place some regulators in the sensor board. Different sensors have different voltages
2010-12-28 09:26 <wolfspraul> andres-calderon: different sensor?
2010-12-28 09:26 <wolfspraul> that sounds like we should first make the simplest possible solution just for the mt9m033, get that to work, then think about other sensors
2010-12-28 09:27 <wolfspraul> whatever we can remove that still leaves us with a camera, I'm voting for removing it
2010-12-28 09:31 <andres-calderon> wolfspraul:   Putting the LDOs in the second board is the simplest solution, I have  problems with the space.
2010-12-28 09:32 <wolfspraul> ok I cannot judge whether they logically belong to the Aptina daughterboard, or to the base board
2010-12-28 09:32 <wolfspraul> or whether they can be used by other daughterboards in the future, or not
2010-12-28 09:32 <wolfspraul> I just wondered about the separate psu...
2010-12-28 09:34 <DocScrutinizer> Hohohoo!
2010-12-28 09:34 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
2010-12-28 09:35 <DocScrutinizer> takes off the red hood
2010-12-28 09:39 <andres-calderon> wolfspraul: What do you think about this chip? it's so simple to use... but seem expensive. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=296-19652-1-ND
2010-12-28 10:20 <wpwrak> wolfspraul, andres-calderon: one possible approach for simplifying power supplies would be to provide the regulated voltages of the mainboard also to the daughterboard. this assumes that 1) there are enough free pins in the connector(s) and 2) that the regulators on the mainboard aren't already maxed out
2010-12-28 10:24 <wolfspraul> yes, that's what I thought
2010-12-28 10:24 <wolfspraul> although the Aptina sensor needs a number of different voltages, and also analog and digital vdd, or something like that
2010-12-28 10:25 <andres-calderon> wpwrak: i agree
2010-12-28 10:27 <wolfspraul> andres-calderon: great! :-)
2010-12-28 10:30 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: i wonder where the concept of needing separate regulators with the same voltage for analog and digital comes from. e.g., why not simply have an inductor to block current surges and an adequate silo capacitor on the load side of the inductor ?
2010-12-28 10:33 <andres-calderon> wpwrak: i agree too. We only cut/paste de reference design
2010-12-28 10:41 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: don't ask me.
2010-12-28 10:41 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-12-28 10:41 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: sorry it's a bit chaotic here. I forgot whether you confirmed that the --fill-all-zones works for you?
2010-12-28 10:41 <wolfspraul> I'm back in eeschema now, I want to finish this kicad cmdline stuff asap...
2010-12-28 10:43 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: haven't tried --fill-all-zones yet
2010-12-28 10:43 <wpwrak> (chaotic) heh, surprise ;-)
2010-12-28 10:43 <wolfspraul> ok no problem. I will just finish eeschema in the same style.
2010-12-28 10:50 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: kicad-patches: completed and extended build instructions http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/d280eab
2010-12-28 10:50 <wpwrak> ah, this was missing, too
2010-12-28 10:57 <wpwrak> hmm. when I run  pcbnew --plot=ps_a4 --ps-pads-drill-opt=none -l Front --mirror atusb.brd
2010-12-28 10:58 <wpwrak> it seems to produce the file well enough, but then i get an exit code of 255, which make doens't like
2010-12-28 10:58 <wpwrak> doesn't print any error or such
2010-12-28 10:58 <wpwrak> this seems to be new behaviour
2010-12-28 11:04 <wpwrak> --fill-all-zones looks good
2010-12-28 11:05 <wpwrak> (exit status 255) also happens with something as simple as  pcbnew --plot=ps atusb.brd
2010-12-28 11:06 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/Makefile: move common plot command parts to variable $(PLOT_BRD) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/aae86ca
2010-12-28 11:06 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/Makefile: add --fill-all-zones to PLOT_BRD, to make sure zones are filled http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/228eb20
2010-12-28 11:06 <wpwrak> okay, gotta run
2010-12-28 11:25 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: BQ2407[0,1] component has been added http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/f66a31c
2010-12-28 11:26 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: ah OK [255] I fix that thx
2010-12-28 12:04 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: schematic battery charger draft http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/d81ffca
2010-12-28 12:27 <suschman> hi
2010-12-28 12:28 <kristianpaul> Hello suschman
2010-12-28 12:28 <suschman> do you know if mirko is in berlin now?
2010-12-28 12:28 <kristianpaul> no idea
2010-12-28 13:22 <zrafa> M_Rojas: hey papa
2010-12-28 13:22 <zrafa> :)
2010-12-28 13:22 <M_Rojas> que haces man!
2010-12-28 13:23 <zrafa> jaja.. estas mejor?
2010-12-28 13:23 <M_Rojas> si, recien hoy me entro una lija ...
2010-12-28 13:24 <zrafa> jaja.. ultra off topic nuestra charla :P
2010-12-28 13:24 <M_Rojas> hace una rato vuelvo de comer ....
2010-12-28 13:25 <zrafa> M_Rojas: let me do some introductions.. wpwrak is werner if you did not realize. kristianpaul is from Colombia and he is hacking gps on nn
2010-12-28 13:26 <M_Rojas> great!
2010-12-28 13:26 <M_Rojas> I will keep reading, and try to learn :-)
2010-12-28 13:26 <zrafa> M_Rojas: wolfspraul is not here, but he is the guy making the nns in China.. xiangfu is in charge of the nn software, and other guys like me are doing mess :)
2010-12-28 13:27 <M_Rojas> :-)
2010-12-28 13:27 <M_Rojas> yesterday I was reading the logs ...
2010-12-28 13:34 <kristianpaul> And there is more people around hacking openwrt, i just cant remenber name and nick equivalent :S
2010-12-28 13:35 <kristianpaul> lija?
2010-12-28 13:35 <kristianpaul> mejor ni pregunta ;-)
2010-12-28 13:36 <M_Rojas> lija = hunger
2010-12-28 13:36 <kristianpaul> M_Rojas: larsc is kernel hacker for the nn
2010-12-28 13:36 <M_Rojas> :-)
2010-12-28 13:36 <M_Rojas> ok, great
2010-12-28 13:37 <kristianpaul> M_Rojas: i guess you from argetina as well? :-)
2010-12-28 13:37 <kristianpaul> argentina*
2010-12-28 13:38 <M_Rojas> now I know some of the characters ...
2010-12-28 15:29 <Jay7> morning
2010-12-28 15:42 <wpwrak> phew. ups is charging. i'm trying my luck again. had 4 brown-outs within 24 hours yesterday. enough is enough.
2010-12-28 15:42 <larsc> suschman: depends on which mirko you are looking for
2010-12-28 15:43 <zrafa> kristianpaul: yes, he is
2010-12-28 16:32 <zrafa> wpwrak: you will be with the people on rivadavia street reclaiming :)
2010-12-28 16:33 <wpwrak> zrafa: naw, ->I<- will sit happily at my PC, with the UPS gracefully covering the interruptions :)
2010-12-28 16:34 <wpwrak> zrafa: the interruptions are all brown-outs. just long enough to reset some of my PCs (not all of them), some of my lab instruments, and sometimes the CNC mill.
2010-12-28 16:39 <M_Rojas> mmm another brown-out
2010-12-28 16:40 <M_Rojas> I hope it does not extend to the entire city ...
2010-12-28 16:44 <wpwrak> naw, this was just the cablemodem needing a restart. it does that every few weeks or so.
2010-12-28 16:45 <M_Rojas> well come back :-)
2010-12-28 17:05 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: how much power you need i your lab?
2010-12-28 17:07 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: don't remember :) i once added all the maximum values - and the result was that the apartment's fuse would barely hold :)
2010-12-28 17:08 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: of course, real-life consumption is a bit lower :)
2010-12-28 17:08 <kristianpaul> i just saying because you mentioned UPS is not enougt for brown-outs?
2010-12-28 17:09 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: the one i had made them only worse. now i'm trying a different and hopefully better one.
2010-12-28 17:10 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: well, i will try as soon as the next brownout hits. (which should be within a few hours) no point in cutting power unnecessarily ;-)
2010-12-28 17:10 <kristianpaul> try as google UPS-like arrange per each server ;-)
2010-12-28 17:15 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: i thought of it ... but that would just add some 5+ systems that each add a bit more consumption, that each have their own failure mode, and that each can just break. if you seek reliability, complexity is bad :)
2010-12-28 17:18 <larsc> lekernel_27C3: where exactly are you hiding at the c3?
2010-12-28 17:18 <lekernel_27C3> saal 2
2010-12-28 17:18 <lekernel_27C3> just in front of the door
2010-12-28 17:19 <wpwrak> lekernel_27C3: surrounded by fans, i hope :-)
2010-12-28 17:19 <lekernel_27C3> i gave up the milkymist stuff in the lounge for a while. the video camera working perfectly in one room and extremely unstably in the lounge was too hard on my nerves
2010-12-28 17:19 <wpwrak> and groupies ;-)
2010-12-28 17:20 <lekernel_27C3> I should change the project's slogan to "bugs that blow your mind"
2010-12-28 17:20 <kristianpaul> haha :-)
2010-12-28 17:21 <lekernel_27C3> maybe it was just that all this equipment the lounge soundsystem is made of was sending some kind of interference
2010-12-28 17:21 <wpwrak> MurphyMist :)
2010-12-28 17:21 <lekernel_27C3> tried changing cables, power supplies, milkymist boards, that crap persisted
2010-12-28 17:22 <lekernel_27C3> it's the first time such a thing happens
2010-12-28 17:22 <lekernel_27C3> i've used the video input and this camera for quite a while before, and it worked perfectly
2010-12-28 17:22 <kristianpaul> (interference) good ! you are good for FCC and related certifications :-)
2010-12-28 17:22 <lekernel_27C3> no idea
2010-12-28 17:22 <kristianpaul> s/good for/good to go
2010-12-28 17:22 <lekernel_27C3> maybe it was the camera
2010-12-28 17:22 <lekernel_27C3> maybe not
2010-12-28 17:22 <lekernel_27C3> who knows
2010-12-28 17:23 <kristianpaul> murphy?
2010-12-28 17:23 <lekernel_27C3> go to the c3 and debug it yourself, but that crap wants to make me smash a dozen milkymist boards on the floor
2010-12-28 17:23 <kristianpaul> lekernel_27C3: how was workshop btw?
2010-12-28 17:56 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: http://david.gnedt.eu/blog/wl1251/
2010-12-28 17:56 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67554
2010-12-28 17:57 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: so you have wlan now. congratulations ! :)
2010-12-28 17:58 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
2010-12-28 17:58 <DocScrutinizer> wl1251 has monitor mode and packet injection now
2010-12-28 17:58 <DocScrutinizer> thought you might be somewhat interested
2010-12-28 18:00 <DocScrutinizer> though I'm aware it's been Andy who wrote some drivers for Aircrack or something similar
2010-12-28 18:00 <DocScrutinizer> iirc
2010-12-28 18:00 <wpwrak> ah, to be honest, just so-so at the moment. what i'd *really* like to know is why the USB design that i've already used something like seven times without a flaw all of a sudden falls apart.
2010-12-28 18:01 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
2010-12-28 18:01 <DocScrutinizer> please elaborate
2010-12-28 18:02 <DocScrutinizer> (btw was smiling when I seen your name bottom of fsck.vfat manpage :-)  )
2010-12-28 18:02 <wpwrak> the atusb board. the board resets quite often - sometimes not for something like half an hour, but sometimes continuously
2010-12-28 18:02 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: PVQFN-N20 footprint component added http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/9a49522
2010-12-28 18:02 <wpwrak> (fsck.vfat) ah, sins of the youth ;-)
2010-12-28 18:02 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
2010-12-28 18:03 <DocScrutinizer> it still has too few diagnostic printout
2010-12-28 18:03 <wpwrak> (atusb) communication per se seems to be fine. the power rails a are great. all of them. not a single glitch to be found.
2010-12-28 18:03 <DocScrutinizer> linky to schem?
2010-12-28 18:03 <wpwrak> (atusb) yet the bastard keeps on resetting.
2010-12-28 18:04 <DocScrutinizer> (no idea what's atusb)
2010-12-28 18:04 <wpwrak> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/atusb/
2010-12-28 18:04 <wpwrak> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/atusb/pdf_atusb.pdf
2010-12-28 18:05 <DocScrutinizer> hmmmmmm, is there a cummulative comprehensive pdf somewhere?
2010-12-28 18:06 <wpwrak> (fsck, diag printout) ah ? i back when i wrote it (called dosfsck), it actually ran circles around M$'s chkdsk (sp ?). fixed quite a lot of things where chkdsk would just deliver the "coup de grace"
2010-12-28 18:06 <DocScrutinizer> ahh the second link?
2010-12-28 18:06 <wpwrak> yup
2010-12-28 18:06 <DocScrutinizer> what *is* it?
2010-12-28 18:07 <wpwrak> ;-))
2010-12-28 18:07 <DocScrutinizer> i.e whats at other end of USB?
2010-12-28 18:07 <DocScrutinizer> of PCB
2010-12-28 18:07 <wpwrak> it's an ieee 802.15.4 usb dongle
2010-12-28 18:07 <DocScrutinizer> k
2010-12-28 18:07 <wpwrak> plus into a pc/laptop/whatever
2010-12-28 18:07 <wpwrak> pluGs
2010-12-28 18:08 <DocScrutinizer> I see
2010-12-28 18:08 <wpwrak> NB: the usb side is basically identical to idbg-gta02, idbg-ben, cntr old, cntr new, a previous atusb design, and some more boards i made. all of them work great.
2010-12-28 18:09 <DocScrutinizer> which part resets? the USB controller?
2010-12-28 18:09 <wpwrak> (in some i had to change the varistors, though. once tried bigger ones but their capacitance was too high)
2010-12-28 18:09 <wpwrak> yes, the usb controller
2010-12-28 18:10 <DocScrutinizer> RF feedback?
2010-12-28 18:11 <DocScrutinizer> what's TX power?
2010-12-28 18:11 <wpwrak> RF should be quite asleep at that tome
2010-12-28 18:11 <wpwrak> tIme
2010-12-28 18:11 <DocScrutinizer> hmmm
2010-12-28 18:11 <wpwrak> maximum tx power would be 3 dBm
2010-12-28 18:12 <wpwrak> but the rails are eerily quiet. no weird noise. no glitch in sight.
2010-12-28 18:13 <DocScrutinizer> F326 datasheet? PCB layout?
2010-12-28 18:13 <wpwrak> best if you check out the project. then everything is very easy to access.
2010-12-28 18:13 <DocScrutinizer> maybe even a photo of a^HTHE prototype?
2010-12-28 18:13 <wpwrak> coming ..
2010-12-28 18:14 <DocScrutinizer> no spece left on HDD, sorry
2010-12-28 18:14 <wpwrak> for checkout: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/help/
2010-12-28 18:14 <wpwrak> (space) delete some porn ;-)
2010-12-28 18:14 <DocScrutinizer> muhaha, I stream those
2010-12-28 18:15 <DocScrutinizer> analog live stream ;-)
2010-12-28 18:15 <DocScrutinizer> even 3D
2010-12-28 18:15 <wpwrak> here's a picture. alas, a bit dark. http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/nemesis.jpg
2010-12-28 18:16 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: IC charger inserted in the PCB http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/6cf11e5
2010-12-28 18:16 <DocScrutinizer> what's that green wire?
2010-12-28 18:16 <wpwrak> a probe, for checking one of the rails
2010-12-28 18:17 <DocScrutinizer> k
2010-12-28 18:17 <wpwrak> (funny, everyone asks about that one :)
2010-12-28 18:17 <DocScrutinizer> backplane is all GND?
2010-12-28 18:18 <DocScrutinizer> (except antenna area)
2010-12-28 18:20 <wpwrak> several gnd zones, some traces
2010-12-28 18:21 <wpwrak> RF is picky about ground, says the documentation, so it gets one for RF, one for RF power, and one for the crystal.
2010-12-28 18:21 <DocScrutinizer> no linky to atmel's F326 pdf?
2010-12-28 18:21 <DocScrutinizer> if that's atmel
2010-12-28 18:22 <wpwrak> http://www.silabs.com/Support Documents/TechnicalDocs/C8051F326.pdf
2010-12-28 18:22 <wpwrak> it's silabs
2010-12-28 18:22 <wpwrak> the transceiver is from atmel
2010-12-28 18:22 <wpwrak> if you check out the project, then you can  make dsv  and then  dsv mcu  or  dsv txrx  :)
2010-12-28 18:24 <DocScrutinizer> "keep the USB shield GND isolated from the device GND" ;-)
2010-12-28 18:25 <DocScrutinizer> UMMMM
2010-12-28 18:26 <DocScrutinizer> [9] nRST/C2CK is NC??
2010-12-28 18:27 <wpwrak> (gnd separation) i just do what intel say :) the device doesn't connect to any other sort of ground
2010-12-28 18:27 <DocScrutinizer> "" *RESET* Connect 1 - 5k pull-up to VDD ""
2010-12-28 18:27 <wpwrak> (reset) should be okay. lemme check ..
2010-12-28 18:28 <wpwrak> (pull-up) where did you read this ?
2010-12-28 18:28 <DocScrutinizer> also seems silabs suggests 4.7u + 0.1u for VDD buffer
2010-12-28 18:28 <DocScrutinizer> p16
2010-12-28 18:28 <DocScrutinizer> fig 1.4
2010-12-28 18:30 <wpwrak> ah, interesting. let's try this :)
2010-12-28 18:30 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
2010-12-28 18:30 <DocScrutinizer> you're welcome
2010-12-28 18:30 <DocScrutinizer> o/
2010-12-28 18:31 <wpwrak> page 60, section 7.3 says "maybe". but that could of course be one of the "be" cases ...
2010-12-28 18:32 <wpwrak> this of course still leaves the mystery why the other board wouldn't even reliably get to the end of flashing. (the reset pin is driven in this case) but maybe they're beset by different problems.
2010-12-28 18:34 <DocScrutinizer> another spook in my mind is clock
2010-12-28 18:34 <wpwrak> mcu clock comes from usb.
2010-12-28 18:34 <DocScrutinizer> mech coupling from 16MHz xtal. Or instabilities arise from sth else
2010-12-28 18:35 <wpwrak> the rf clock runs too, and it's stable
2010-12-28 18:35 <DocScrutinizer> mcu clk comes from USB??
2010-12-28 18:35 <wpwrak> (well, stable on the scope. didn't torture-test it)
2010-12-28 18:35 <wpwrak> well, internal rc osc that's synchronized with usb
2010-12-28 18:36 <DocScrutinizer> you're sure it's an RC osc?
2010-12-28 18:36 <DocScrutinizer> not some mechanical tuned element
2010-12-28 18:37 <DocScrutinizer> aka resonator
2010-12-28 18:37 <DocScrutinizer> sorry too short a time to digest all 140 pp
2010-12-28 18:38 <DocScrutinizer> anyway I see [26] XTAL2 at very least. NC on your circuit
2010-12-28 18:38 <wpwrak> hmm. data sheet doesn't specify the physics of the internal oscillator.
2010-12-28 18:38 <DocScrutinizer> if that is actually a xtal driver IO, then it could catch up noise
2010-12-28 18:39 <DocScrutinizer> I'd suggest you have a second look into silab's word on that one
2010-12-28 18:40 <wpwrak> "Unused port pins should be left floating", fig 1.3 or 1.4
2010-12-28 18:40 <wpwrak> and this appears to include the xtal pins
2010-12-28 18:40 <DocScrutinizer> if that's also a "may (need GND/foo)" then consider that
2010-12-28 18:40 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
2010-12-28 18:40 <DocScrutinizer> k
2010-12-28 18:40 <wpwrak> the chip is designed to not need a crystal, so i don't think they's miss that one
2010-12-28 18:41 <DocScrutinizer> nah, but a random bogus signal catched by the floating pin might confuse hell out of clock generation
2010-12-28 18:42 <DocScrutinizer> I'd need to study the § about that optional external xtal
2010-12-28 18:43 <DocScrutinizer> I'm afk now though. Feel free to ping me with results or further questions :-) always appreciate that
2010-12-28 18:44 <wpwrak> thanks a lot ! it's at least a place i hadn't considered yet. let's see how it turns out ...
2010-12-28 18:58 <kristianpaul> missing xtal, hmm thats look fairly probable
2010-12-28 18:59 <kristianpaul> no as probable or why my sythesis tool is ignoring some of my wirings.. :S
2010-12-28 19:42 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: try setting P0.3 output-pushpull
2010-12-28 19:43 <DocScrutinizer> I don't think that'll fix anything, but it shouldn't hurt anyway
2010-12-28 20:43 <kristianpaul>  output != inout
2010-12-28 20:43 <kristianpaul> and the whole evening lost because of it.. :/
2010-12-28 20:48 <kristianpaul> hi
2010-12-28 21:43 <kristianpaul> amazing, the guys from the NAMURU project implemented an accumulator in FPGA instead of doing FFT it seeems
2010-12-28 23:22 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer: i already set all unused i/os to 0, so they all have a defined state (provided that i make it this far)
2010-12-28 23:32 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, was only a wild guess of mine. I'd also expect you need to explicitly ENable xtal2 function od P0.3
2010-12-28 23:33 <DocScrutinizer> though a fist quick scan across the register of the datasheet and a few tables didn't reveal the exact bit in any config register
2010-12-28 23:34 <DocScrutinizer> wpwrak: anyway the nRESET thing looks much more plausible to me
2010-12-28 23:35 <DocScrutinizer> I guess you doublechecked all solderpoints already
2010-12-28 23:43 <wpwrak> grmbl. now the thing acts weird in another way.
2010-12-28 23:44 <wpwrak> (ext osc) page 77. it's one of the CLKSEL values
2010-12-28 23:45 <wpwrak> the chip doesn't thave a full xtal osc, just a clock input. the full xtal osc would be in the larger f320/f321. (dsv f320)
2010-12-28 23:46 <wpwrak> the problem i see now are wrong voltages. in particular, VDD at VUSB. that doesn't look healthy at all.
2010-12-28 23:46 <wpwrak> there's no short i can detect, though.
2010-12-28 23:48 <DocScrutinizer> soldr an LED on the thing!
2010-12-28 23:49 <DocScrutinizer> even 2, one for plain power (VDD via series R), and one that's a blinkenlight from the processor
2010-12-28 23:51 <wpwrak> it has a led :)
2010-12-28 23:52 <wpwrak> naw, i can measure VDD easily enough
2010-12-28 23:52 <DocScrutinizer> (I got a baggy with a dozen wired SMT LEDs here for such purposes ;D )
2010-12-28 23:52 <wpwrak> it also does its weirdness when connected to a lab supply. current it perfectly calm.
2010-12-28 23:53 <wpwrak> s/it p/is p/
2010-12-28 23:54 <wpwrak> i don't like the 5 V on the VDD rail at all.
2010-12-28 23:55 <wpwrak> the other board i have puts about 3.577 V there. still a bit high, but within limits.
2010-12-28 23:58 <DocScrutinizer> typo: RPF
2010-12-28 23:59 <DocScrutinizer> actually 5V on VDD looks insane to me, that's not REGIN / VBUS