2010-12-25 02:49 <wolfspraul> wpwrak_: you can try it out http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/wolfgang/kicad_patches/
2010-12-25 02:49 <wolfspraul> with pcbnew --help you see an overview
2010-12-25 03:58 <yizhang> anyone knows where is user's manual  for sdcv - console dictionary?
2010-12-25 03:59 <yizhang> any doc will help
2010-12-25 03:59 <yizhang> after i get in, i am stock :(
2010-12-25 03:59 <yizhang> stuck
2010-12-25 04:00 <DocScrutinizer> Doc would love to help :-D
2010-12-25 04:01 <yizhang> DocScrutinizer: at least Doc made me laugh :D
2010-12-25 04:16 <kyak> yizhang: what kind of user manual do you expect? just type in!
2010-12-25 04:17 <yizhang> kyak: actually i only want to know some controls
2010-12-25 04:17 <yizhang> for example: to press which key to exit program
2010-12-25 04:17 <kyak> ctrl+c, obviously
2010-12-25 04:19 <yizhang> kyak: oh, thanks. we have use all sorts of key combinations for exiting the program
2010-12-25 04:19 <yizhang> kyak: have tried ctrl + q, esc, ctrl + esc
2010-12-25 04:19 <yizhang> just not ctrl+c
2010-12-25 04:19 <yizhang> bad luck
2010-12-25 04:20 <yizhang> kyak: thanks
2010-12-25 04:20 <yizhang> for next program, i have one more to try ;)
2010-12-25 04:20 <kyak> i guess i misjudged again what "common knowledge" is...
2010-12-25 04:21 <yizhang> or, know less is better than know more ...
2010-12-25 04:22 <kyak> that's a questionable statement
2010-12-25 04:24 <yizhang> ctrl+d also works :)
2010-12-25 04:27 <kyak> good, you've discovered EOF!
2010-12-25 04:30 <yizhang> i found that ctrl+d is to go back to gmenu2x
2010-12-25 07:27 <kristianpaul> yizhang: http://kristianpaul.org/~paul/tmp/sdcv.1
2010-12-25 07:28 <kristianpaul> yizhang: Hello btw :-)
2010-12-25 07:28 <kristianpaul> Thats sdcv manpage, i guess open wrt ignores all documentation when building
2010-12-25 07:28 <kristianpaul> I hope it help you
2010-12-25 07:29 <wolfspraul> yes openwrt removes/ignores documentation, that's a bit of a problem on an offline/keyboard/screen device like the NanoNote
2010-12-25 07:29 <yizhang> kristianpaul: ah, thanks, let me check it out
2010-12-25 07:32 <kristianpaul> yizhang: if you open it with vim (with  :sintax on) will help too, as is a bit confusing read manpages sintax at first try (at least for me)
2010-12-25 07:39 <kristianpaul> Finally my tuner arrives, http://www.mtmscientific.com/tuner.html, this will be first contact with HAM radion before and save me money tryin to buy  a USRP ;-) (wich i dont *fully* understand how it works)
2010-12-25 07:39 <kristianpaul> s/radion/radio
2010-12-25 08:17 <wpwrak_> kristianpaul: the price is much nicer than the usrp's :)
2010-12-25 08:18 <kristianpaul> wpwrak_: and i can listen satellite telemetry i think, :-) wich is what i  wanted in short term
2010-12-25 08:19 <kristianpaul> wpwrak_: how was fireworks yday?
2010-12-25 08:20 <wolfspraul> wpwrak_: hey good morning! :-) I finished my first round of kicad hacking
2010-12-25 08:20 <wolfspraul> now awaiting your feedback... (not urgent, take your time)
2010-12-25 08:20 <wolfspraul> my rough plan is like this, let me know what you think...
2010-12-25 08:20 <wolfspraul> first I wait and see whether it works for you, and whether you want changes
2010-12-25 08:21 <wolfspraul> if you feel it's ok, maybe we can move kicad-patches to eda-tools, then I can directly commit there
2010-12-25 08:21 <wpwrak_> kristianpaul: the party was nicely wild. everybody got wasted :)  the ignition of the fireworks failed mysteriously. haven't analyzed yet why. so we set them off manually after all. some 800 explosions in total :)
2010-12-25 08:21 <wolfspraul> if you uptick the kicad version, I suggest you just comment out those patches, and I will maintain them
2010-12-25 08:21 <wolfspraul> oh wow! :-)
2010-12-25 08:22 <wolfspraul> ok let me finish the grand plan first. maybe in my next round of updates (after your feedback), I will already cleanup a bit more, make it more KiCad-style etc.
2010-12-25 08:22 <wpwrak_> wolfspraul: (patches) great ! let me regain a bit more control of myself, then i'll have a peek
2010-12-25 08:22 <wolfspraul> then once it's a bit more stable, I will probably set it up on the server so that we can auto-generate a lot of files after commits
2010-12-25 08:22 <wolfspraul> oh sure :-)
2010-12-25 08:23 <wolfspraul> also at some point I can email the kicad list a bit see whether someone is interested
2010-12-25 08:23 <wolfspraul> but that's for later
2010-12-25 08:23 <wpwrak_> wolfspraul: btw, maybe a "wolfgangmisc" project would be useful for hosting bits and pieces like this ?
2010-12-25 08:23 <wolfspraul> does this plan sound about right?
2010-12-25 08:23 <wolfspraul> that sounds like a junkyard
2010-12-25 08:23 <wolfspraul> it's a clean extension of kicad-patches, so I hope we can host your kicad patches and mine together?
2010-12-25 08:24 <wolfspraul> like I said I would just move them to eda-tools, sounds like the perfect place
2010-12-25 08:24 <wpwrak_> (junkyard) yup, that's the idea. a junkyard is a clearly defined place where all the junk goes :)
2010-12-25 08:24 <wpwrak_> yes, sounds good
2010-12-25 08:24 <wolfspraul> we will probably need to maintain kicad-patches for a while, if not for good
2010-12-25 08:24 <wpwrak_> let's see what the powers that be think about them
2010-12-25 08:24 <wolfspraul> that's why I'd say eda-tools/kicad-patches
2010-12-25 08:25 <wolfspraul> oh it's not clean enough yet, see my plan above first I'm curious whether it works for you, then improve/polish, then use on the server
2010-12-25 08:25 <wpwrak_> cool, you also bypassed the dialogs
2010-12-25 08:25 <wpwrak_> (errors/warnings)
2010-12-25 08:26 <wolfspraul> I tried several things, getting the hang of it.
2010-12-25 08:26 <wolfspraul> like I said actually in many places they separate between gui and data nicely.
2010-12-25 08:27 <wolfspraul> so I would not submit the entire patch like it is, instead I would just point them to the patch, and then submit small improvements to make for a cleaner separation between GUI and data path inside the KiCad sources.
2010-12-25 08:27 <wolfspraul> that will help maintaining our cmdline patches.
2010-12-25 08:28 <wpwrak_> sounds good, yes
2010-12-25 08:28 <wpwrak_> just a moment ... need to reload dishwasher and get something caffeinated to drink ...
2010-12-25 10:52 <qi-bot> [commit] Wolfgang Spraul: added more spartan-6 documents to BOOKSHELF http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/394274a
2010-12-25 11:03 <lekernel> kristianpaul: you might be interested in this: http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/software/kdrive.html
2010-12-25 11:04 <lekernel> a X server that sucks a little less than X.org...
2010-12-25 11:04 <lekernel> might work on the NN
2010-12-25 11:05 <lekernel> since most freet**d gui applications need a X server...
2010-12-25 13:04 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: some PSU passive components values has been selected http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/a77e91e
2010-12-25 13:07 <andres-calderon> wolfspraul: nice commit.
2010-12-25 13:14 <kuribas> Hi, can I use the nanonote as a pda?
2010-12-25 13:15 <kuribas> Is there software that could be used or ported?
2010-12-25 13:21 <wolfspraul> andres-calderon: he, not much at all :-)
2010-12-25 13:22 <wolfspraul> I was traveling a bit and enjoyed the offlineness of dsv, but unfortunately I wanted to read more about the spartan-6 and couldn't...
2010-12-25 13:22 <wolfspraul> next time I have a few more docs now :-)
2010-12-25 13:23 <wolfspraul> andres-calderon: another thing, I've added a few command line options to pcbnew, you mentioned that you wanted to look into this as well, but I already got to it.
2010-12-25 13:23 <wolfspraul> once this is more stable (currently awaiting feedback from wpwrak_), I will bring it live on the qi server to automatically generate a bunch of files on commits
2010-12-25 13:24 <kuribas> How well does the nanonote run debian?
2010-12-25 13:24 <wolfspraul> which will in turn help projects like xue because we can review and comment faster
2010-12-25 13:24 <wolfspraul> kuribas: I'd say it's very limited. main problem is 32mb memory only.
2010-12-25 13:24 <wolfspraul> boot time is slow, I think 1-2 minutes.
2010-12-25 13:24 <kuribas> I see.
2010-12-25 13:24 <andres-calderon> wolfspraul: I saw the irc-log, is a great idea.
2010-12-25 13:25 <wolfspraul> you need a swap file on an external memory card for a lot of apps/actions.
2010-12-25 13:25 <wolfspraul> but it is possible :-)
2010-12-25 13:25 <wolfspraul> andres-calderon: yes sure. not just idea, we will bring it live, guaranteed :-)
2010-12-25 13:26 <kuribas> does openwrt have xorg?
2010-12-25 13:26 <wolfspraul> I see you are doing some more xue work - great!
2010-12-25 13:26 <wolfspraul> kuribas: openwrt does have xorg as a selectable option, but I think most all of us who use openwrt have never tried to build such an image.
2010-12-25 13:26 <wolfspraul> I believe openwrt has the full glibc as well, but all I know is people using uclibc
2010-12-25 13:29 <kuribas> Hm, jlime seems to be interesting, since it has a graphical interface.  I wonder, could I use the nanonote as a pda (for appointments, etc...)?
2010-12-25 13:31 <wolfspraul> yes you can, although I cannot tell you from my own personal experience now which app really works well for that
2010-12-25 13:31 <wolfspraul> I use mine for note taking, playing music, and soon hopefully english-chinese dictionary if I can find one that has pinyin display...
2010-12-25 13:31 <andres-calderon> wolfspraul:   I already selected a new regulators ICs. Still necessary to select the battery charger
2010-12-25 13:32 <wolfspraul> I wish I could use it for maps (openstreetmaps), but the client and ways to get maps to the device are not there yet
2010-12-25 13:32 <wolfspraul> then I would like to use it as a time tracker, I need to get a bit of discipline into my daily schedule :-)
2010-12-25 13:32 <wolfspraul> but no pim, sorry
2010-12-25 13:35 <kuribas> Something simple would do.  On one of the screenshots there is a pim: http://www.jlime.com/wiki/documentation/user/nanonote/muffinman#sdl_on_framebuffer
2010-12-25 13:46 <kuribas> I might use this (a text based organiser): http://culot.org/calcurse/
2010-12-25 13:47 <wolfspraul> I've heard that before, let me see whether it's included in the latest openwrt image...
2010-12-25 13:48 <wolfspraul> yes, it's in 12-14
2010-12-25 13:48 <wolfspraul> yeah, just started and seems to work nice. well, there's an option for you...
2010-12-25 13:54 <kuribas> great :)
2010-12-25 14:33 <kuribas> Could I use a usb-mouse with the nanonote?
2010-12-25 14:33 <wolfspraul> no
2010-12-25 14:33 <wolfspraul> the usb port is client only, so you can only use it to connect to your notebook/desktop
2010-12-25 14:34 <kuribas> Is it limited by the hardware?
2010-12-25 14:34 <kuribas> Or the kernel?
2010-12-25 14:34 <wolfspraul> yes
2010-12-25 14:34 <wolfspraul> no, hardware. definitely.
2010-12-25 14:34 <kuribas> Ok, I see.
2010-12-25 14:35 <wolfspraul> no (sane) way to add USB host - many have tried :-)
2010-12-25 15:38 <Jay7> hm.. I've thought NN have usb-host..
2010-12-25 15:38 <wolfspraul> no, it doesn't
2010-12-25 15:38 <Jay7> anyway, about using NN as PDA
2010-12-25 15:38 <Jay7> some people are still using Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 (collie) as PDA
2010-12-25 15:38 <Jay7> and Zaurus SL-C700/750
2010-12-25 15:39 <Jay7> pxa255/32Mb ram
2010-12-25 15:39 <Jay7> but with keyboard and touchscreen
2010-12-25 15:40 <kuribas> How easy is it to type on the keyboard?  I am also interested in playing interactive fiction (text adventures).  I used to play them on my palm zire 21, which is broken now.  But typing with the stylo is very slow.
2010-12-25 15:40 <kuribas> I wonder if typing on the NN is faster.
2010-12-25 15:40 <Jay7> kuribas: keyboard quality is good imho
2010-12-25 15:40 <Jay7> case is good even
2010-12-25 15:41 <wolfspraul> interactive fiction, nice!
2010-12-25 15:41 <kuribas> Typing goes reasonably fast?  (after a bit of practice)
2010-12-25 15:41 <Jay7> but small screen, small ram and no any mouse-like input method killing it
2010-12-25 15:42 <kuribas> Jay7: you don't need that for int-fic.  I am not sure about the ram though...
2010-12-25 15:42 <Jay7> kuribas: well.. just typing english text is ok
2010-12-25 15:43 <wolfspraul> kuribas: oh it should be OK. Nick Montfort bought a NanoNote and I think he likes it :-)
2010-12-25 15:43 <wolfspraul> we tentatively agreed to bring some of his works (Curveship etc) to the Ben, but progress is slow...
2010-12-25 15:44 <wolfspraul> at least upon Nick's suggestion we added frotz, for example
2010-12-25 15:44 <wolfspraul> http://nickm.com/
2010-12-25 15:44 <kuribas> nice :)
2010-12-25 15:44 <Jay7> still dreaming about motherboard/screen replacement/upgrade toolkit for Zaurus C1000/C3x00
2010-12-25 15:45 <Jay7> I've seen OpenMoko people was doing something like for Neo
2010-12-25 15:45 <valhalla> I've had a NanoNote for about 3-4 hours and the keyboard looks nice :)
2010-12-25 15:45 <Jay7> valhalla: hello here too :)
2010-12-25 15:46 <Jay7> NN's case and keyboard quality is very good really
2010-12-25 15:46 <wolfspraul> I agree, but hey, I manufacture the thing so that is the textbook definition of 'biased', I guess :-)
2010-12-25 15:47 <Jay7> but not sure about capability to get multiple simultaneous keypresses
2010-12-25 15:49 <Jay7> anyway, for MUD-like games it should be fine imho :)
2010-12-25 15:49 <kuribas> Wouldn't it be nice if the next version had a touchscreen?
2010-12-25 15:50 <Jay7> then it should have bigger screen
2010-12-25 15:50 <Jay7> *larger
2010-12-25 15:51 <Jay7> then it should have more ram and faster SoC/CPU
2010-12-25 15:51 <Jay7> then it will be expensive :)
2010-12-25 15:51 <kuribas> I see.  What about support for an external mouse?
2010-12-25 15:52 <Jay7> at least usb-host is must have
2010-12-25 15:52 <zear> nn's keyboard is of a good quality, i agree, but longer typing on it is not the one of best experiences :)
2010-12-25 15:52 <zear> try to play nethack or frotz games on it for a while ;)
2010-12-25 15:53 <kuribas> zear: Isn't it better than on palm or a tablet pc?
2010-12-25 15:53 <zear> kuribas, well, i have jornada 720 and it's keyboard is a million times better ;)
2010-12-25 15:54 <Jay7> kuribas: btw, Zipit may be interesting for you
2010-12-25 15:54 <zear> nn is fine for typing a phrase or two, but longer typing on it results in fingertips pain ;)
2010-12-25 15:55 <Jay7> or Sharp Zaurus SL-C1000/C3000/C3100/C3200
2010-12-25 15:55 <wolfspraul> yes I agree. I could compare it to a blackberry keyboard, I think it's almost as good as that.
2010-12-25 15:55 <Jay7> they have very good case and keyboard but hard to find this time imho
2010-12-25 15:56 <wolfspraul> when you guys talk about palm keyboard, what do you mean? the treo keyboard? or the foldable keyboards (stowaway and such)?
2010-12-25 15:57 <wolfspraul> the NanoNote keyboard is as good, or better, than a Treo keyboard, but by far not as convenient as a stowaway, for anything more then 1-2 phrases/sentences, as zear said
2010-12-25 15:57 <kuribas> I used my palm with the stylus only :)  I guess it cannot be worse than that.
2010-12-25 15:57 <wolfspraul> he. hard to compare stylus to real keyboard. that's mostly a matter of preference then.
2010-12-25 15:58 <zear> kuribas, actually, i find it easier to type with on-screen-keyboard on my freerunner than with nn's keyboard
2010-12-25 15:58 <zear> easier and faster
2010-12-25 15:58 <zear> nn is just not made for fast typing
2010-12-25 15:58 <zear> you have to use your thumbs to type, etc
2010-12-25 15:59 <wolfspraul> agreed. like I said, compare to blackberry keyboard...
2010-12-25 16:00 <wolfspraul> I think you can get quite fast on a Ben, tactile feedback is good. but it's thumb hopping stuff...
2010-12-25 16:00 <wolfspraul> we should include a little '2 fast fingers' game :-)
2010-12-25 16:00 <wolfspraul> like this, but for NanoNote...
2010-12-25 16:00 <wolfspraul> http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/
2010-12-25 16:02 <kuribas> The zipit seems limited.
2010-12-25 16:16 <ormris> Hello everyone!
2010-12-25 16:17 <ormris> Opkg can't seem to install packages.
2010-12-25 16:17 <ormris> I got it on the inet and opkg update works.
2010-12-25 16:17 <ormris> But it can't find any of the packages.
2010-12-25 16:18 <ormris> When I try to install them.
2010-12-25 16:18 <ormris> Even the snapshots file appears to have the right information.
2010-12-25 16:47 <kristianpaul> back
2010-12-25 16:58 <valhalla> I have the nanowar edition, with jlime; it's missing jlime-pkg and opkg doesn't work, can I download it from here http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/jlime/misc/ and use it to get the package that contains it?
2010-12-25 17:27 <kristianpaul> valhalla: yup
2010-12-25 17:27 <kristianpaul> can you tell us more about (opkg doesn't work)
2010-12-25 17:27 <valhalla> which package is it? I tried a quick search but couldn't find it
2010-12-25 17:28 <kuribas> zear: Why do you think the zipit is easier to type on?  It looks the same size to me...
2010-12-25 17:28 <valhalla> opkg gets killed by the OOM manager
2010-12-25 17:28 <valhalla> (when trying to install packages)
2010-12-25 17:28 <kristianpaul> oh sure
2010-12-25 17:28 <zear> kuribas, never had one, so can only guess. But it looks like it has one of that rubber pad thingies phones keyboards have
2010-12-25 17:29 <zear> so it should be far worse to type on
2010-12-25 17:29 <kristianpaul> valhalla: get this http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/jlime/misc/jlime-pkg
2010-12-25 17:30 <kristianpaul> valhalla: you should not install package on jlime using opkg un less you make sure you have swap, if not jlime-plg come to rescue
2010-12-25 17:30 <kuribas> zear: Err, right.  It was Jay7 who told me that :)
2010-12-25 17:30 <kristianpaul> get that file on the device
2010-12-25 17:30 <kristianpaul> ./jlime-pkg install foo
2010-12-25 17:30 <kristianpaul> will work
2010-12-25 17:30 <valhalla> kristianpaul: that's what I had found by googling :D I was wondering if there was a package that included that script
2010-12-25 17:30 <kristianpaul> but before, make sure you run opkg update
2010-12-25 17:30 <kristianpaul> valhalla: dunno
2010-12-25 17:30 <Jay7> kuribas: imho both devices are very alike
2010-12-25 17:30 <Jay7> kuribas: just choose one :)
2010-12-25 17:31 <kristianpaul> valhalla: but the script by itself is okay fot use, why you need a pacakge?
2010-12-25 17:31 <valhalla> kristianpaul: OCD, I guess :D
2010-12-25 17:32 <kuribas> Jay7: right.
2010-12-25 17:33 <kuribas> If I buy one, I'll port this game: http://vexed.sourceforge.net/ :-)
2010-12-25 17:35 <kristianpaul> (dreams with a frozzen bubble port)
2010-12-25 17:36 <kuribas> That's a nice game too.  Too addicting though :)
2010-12-25 17:43 <valhalla> (btw, I've just written some 100 words on the NN keyboard as a test, and it seems to be working quite fine
2010-12-25 17:47 <kuribas> valhalla: I see, thanks.
2010-12-25 17:56 <kristianpaul> valhalla: good :-)
2010-12-25 17:56 <kristianpaul> I enojoy write stuff on the nanonote when not have my laptop near
2010-12-25 17:57 <kristianpaul> s/enojoy/enjoy
2010-12-25 18:38 <wpwrak_> wolfgang: didn't have time to play with kicad yet, sorry. cleanup from yesterday's party is done. now off to the next one. busy time of the year :)
2010-12-25 21:11 <kristianpaul> http://pastie.org/1405804
2010-12-25 21:21 <kristianpaul> argg
2010-12-25 21:35 <kristianpaul> i need improve the simulation.. :/
2010-12-25 21:52 <kristianpaul> argg cver lies me !
2010-12-25 23:20 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-example-files: add track info to music file http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/83b8728