2010-12-21 00:20 <jyroman> hi
2010-12-21 00:20 <jyroman> Can anyone tell me about iMic?
2010-12-21 00:21 <jyroman> would it affect the quality of my headset's mic input?
2010-12-21 02:54 <kyak> xiangfu: hi! i see you solved that by fixing feeds svn revision?
2010-12-21 02:55 <xiangfu> kyak: but I am not sure if this is a good idea.
2010-12-21 02:56 <xiangfu> kyak: maybe write a script file is better. like ./build 2010-12-14, it's will download the VERSIONS file from downloads.qi-hardware.com
2010-12-21 02:56 <xiangfu> then checkout packages to particular revision.
2010-12-21 02:57 <kyak> this might be good to reproduce the release build
2010-12-21 02:58 <kyak> but what if someone wants an edge build?
2010-12-21 02:59 <xiangfu> follow the build steps, then he on his own risk. :)
2010-12-21 03:02 <kyak> i think it is time that we created feeds-sad :)
2010-12-21 03:06 <xiangfu> kyak: we nned add "./build 2010--12-14" function to "data/qi_lb60/scripts/build",  or include feeds.conf (with revision) by image release
2010-12-21 03:06 <xiangfu> s/nned/need
2010-12-21 03:09 <xiangfu> I think  add "feeds.conf" to images files is better. since we have "config"
2010-12-21 03:15 <xiangfu> wolfspraul: kyak: today I take a look at ImageBuilder, ToolChain and SDK, I think we only need SDK.
2010-12-21 03:16 <xiangfu> IB, don't have toolchain, only packages and rootfs files.
2010-12-21 03:16 <xiangfu> SDK is the superset  of toolchains
2010-12-21 03:17 <xiangfu> ImageBuilder only have binary files. we can not compile packages in ImageBuilder.
2010-12-21 03:27 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: mv byobu, nanoterm to terminal sectionadd ctronome, emacs, netsurf http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/34b0b0c
2010-12-21 03:27 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: rename terminal to terminals http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/ae795f0
2010-12-21 03:27 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: gnuchess: change the install dir to /usr/bin http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/1e030c2
2010-12-21 03:27 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: NanoMap: display userage when start http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/79a63f3
2010-12-21 03:42 <kyak> xiangfu: yes, i think you are right
2010-12-21 03:59 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: gmenu2x: add ikog, remove primes. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/c9e5d61
2010-12-21 04:00 <xiangfu> kyak: I test compile package in SDK. package compile fine. I just don't know if the SDK can generate the rootfs.tar.gz/ubi ?
2010-12-21 04:07 <xiangfu> kyak: there is full rootfs in "OpenWrt-SDK-xburst-for-Linux-x86_64-gcc-4.3.3+cs_uClibc-0.9.30.1/staging_dir/target-mipsel_uClibc-0.9.30.1/root-xburst"
2010-12-21 04:07 <xiangfu> kyak: seems no makefile entry for generate rootfs.tar.gz/ubi. :(
2010-12-21 04:09 <kyak> xiangfu: i never really played with those.. i tried once with SDK but there were some errors
2010-12-21 04:10 <kyak> xiangfu: http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2010-11-19.log.html
2010-12-21 04:11 <kyak> if you search for "sdk" you'll find some discussion
2010-12-21 04:15 <xiangfu> kyak: hmm.. ImageBuilder is not superset of SDK, I think.
2010-12-21 04:59 <xiangfu> http://wiki.openwrt.org/oldwiki/BuildingPackagesHowTo
2010-12-21 05:00 <xiangfu> [About the OpenWrt SDK] ^
2010-12-21 05:58 <wolfspraul> xiangfu: hmm, interesting [about sdk]
2010-12-21 05:59 <wolfspraul> seems even openwrt people don't know what the different tools are for
2010-12-21 05:59 <wolfspraul> that probably tells us something about the quality of those tools, unless we haven't found the people yet that stand behind them and use them themselves
2010-12-21 05:59 <wolfspraul> maybe you also ask on the openwrt devel list
2010-12-21 05:59 <wolfspraul> someone must know what these tools are for, and which one is the best maintained...
2010-12-21 06:00 <xiangfu> wolfspraul: yes. I have tried #openwrt in IRC. will send email to openwrt list.
2010-12-21 10:36 <bartbes> so, gforth guy?
2010-12-21 10:36 <kristianpaul> not me :)
2010-12-21 10:36 <kristianpaul> why you dont write to the list?
2010-12-21 10:41 <bartbes> I just want to show him a nice forth program I found
2010-12-21 10:41 <bartbes> it's a spreadsheet application
2010-12-21 14:14 <bartbes> gforth guy?
2010-12-21 14:15 <bartbes> whatever, I'll link again
2010-12-21 14:15 <bartbes> http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/programs/mini-spreadsheet.fs
2010-12-21 17:02 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: removed AVR and unavailable PSU components http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/4df5db0
2010-12-21 17:14 <bartbes> so ehm
2010-12-21 17:14 <bartbes> are there any windows drivers yet?
2010-12-21 17:15 <wpwrak> for what ?
2010-12-21 17:15 <bartbes> for the ben?
2010-12-21 17:15 <bartbes> the ethernet gadget, specifically
2010-12-21 17:15 <bartbes> because my sd card is partitioned, so that doesn't help either..
2010-12-21 17:15 <wpwrak> i think this is a more-or-less general protocol. the "less" part are flaws in the windows implementation.
2010-12-21 17:16 <wpwrak> but it may be worth a try. at least something should work.
2010-12-21 17:16 <bartbes> I just plugged it in
2010-12-21 17:16 <bartbes> no drivers
2010-12-21 17:16 <bartbes> hence why I asked for some
2010-12-21 17:17 <wpwrak> there's nothing ben-specific about this
2010-12-21 17:18 <bartbes> well yeah, but I figured I wouldn't be the first...
2010-12-21 17:18 <wpwrak> i remember from openmoko that ethernet-over-usb sort of worked, but with problems
2010-12-21 17:19 <wpwrak> that is, with windows
2010-12-21 17:19 <bartbes> as long as I can transfer a file over it, or get access to the internet I'm fine
2010-12-21 17:19 <wpwrak> (some versions there of)
2010-12-21 17:19 <bartbes> it's not like I plan to do this often
2010-12-21 17:19 <bartbes> I just don't feel like rebooting
2010-12-21 17:19 <wpwrak> oh, i'm sure that, if you get it to work once, it'll also work the next 1000 times ;-))
2010-12-21 17:20 <wpwrak> maybe ask on the list ? see if there are still any windows users left :)
2010-12-21 17:21 <bartbes> I'll reboot before I get answers..
2010-12-21 17:21 <bartbes> oh nice
2010-12-21 17:21 <bartbes> I found a time limited demo driver
2010-12-21 17:21 <bartbes> (4 hours per boot)
2010-12-21 17:21 <bartbes> fortunately it reboots after 2 hours anyway
2010-12-21 17:21 <bartbes> :P
2010-12-21 17:22 <wpwrak> the windows world is so full of junk ;-)
2010-12-21 17:22 <bartbes> sure is
2010-12-21 17:25 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/b0c94d8
2010-12-21 17:26 <bartbes> well, I guess it worked..
2010-12-21 17:28 <bartbes> alright
2010-12-21 17:28 <bartbes> I can ping my comp
2010-12-21 17:28 <bartbes> and the other way around
2010-12-21 17:28 <bartbes> great
2010-12-21 17:30 <bartbes> ash: /usr/libexec/sftp-server: not found
2010-12-21 17:30 <bartbes> unable to initialise SFTP: could not connect
2010-12-21 17:30 <bartbes> I got that while trying scp
2010-12-21 17:32 <bartbes> ah, that's putty, apparently
2010-12-21 17:33 <bartbes> I had to use a switch
2010-12-21 18:58 <zrafa> nice harald words :(
2010-12-21 19:01 <lekernel> zrafa: ?
2010-12-21 19:06 <zrafa> lekernel: during 2008 harald suggested to use projects.openmoko.org and he said :
2010-12-21 19:06 <zrafa> "The other issue is one of 'reliability' and is one of the reasons why I
2010-12-21 19:06 <zrafa> personally don't host any of my projects at sourceforge or the like.  Who
2010-12-21 19:06 <zrafa> tells you that they will still provide this serviec tomorrow?  What if they
2010-12-21 19:06 <zrafa> change to a paid-for model?  Also, some of those sites use advertisement (which
2010-12-21 19:06 <zrafa> is extremely ugly).  Also, the big project hosting sites are creating
2010-12-21 19:06 <zrafa> single-points-of-failure, and we've already seen a massive security breach at
2010-12-21 19:06 <zrafa> sourceforge in the past.
2010-12-21 19:06 <zrafa> "
2010-12-21 19:07 <zrafa> lekernel: so I hosted a tiny project at projects.openmoko.org (well, just the web page of the project)
2010-12-21 19:07 <zrafa> lekernel: today, harald said:
2010-12-21 19:07 <zrafa> "Yes, it is related.  However, the reason for the downtime is the
2010-12-21 19:07 <zrafa> fact that nobody is maintaining the projects.openmoko.org installation
2010-12-21 19:07 <zrafa> anymore, and it is running a machine with such old OS + software that
2010-12-21 19:07 <zrafa> for simple security reasons we had to take it down.
2010-12-21 19:07 <zrafa> I wish there was a different choice, but we are out of options."
2010-12-21 19:08 <zrafa> lekernel: so projects.openmoko.org is down and I do not have access to my web page
2010-12-21 19:08 <lekernel> imo the main issue, especially with today's distributed version controls, is time wastage on trivial sysadmin tasks
2010-12-21 19:08 <lekernel> that's why github and the like are nice
2010-12-21 19:08 <zrafa> lekernel: now I would like to get that tiny web page mines and to upload to sourceforge at least
2010-12-21 19:08 <zrafa> like I was thinking to do from the beggining
2010-12-21 19:08 <zrafa> but no access. We will see
2010-12-21 19:09 <lekernel> better take the risk to have to spend 1 hour moving your repository in case github disappears (with an small probability) than to spend 7 hours right away setting up an equivalent (and in practice often inferior) service
2010-12-21 19:09 <lekernel> sourceforge sucks, use github
2010-12-21 19:11 <zrafa> The real problem is that nobody is maintaining the virtual machine of projects.openmoko.org it seems.
2010-12-21 19:45 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: most other combinatorial functions should work too !!
2010-12-21 19:45 <kristianpaul> https://github.com/lekernel/llhdl/blob/master/designs/gates/Makefile
2010-12-21 19:45 <kristianpaul> that was taken from #milkymist
2010-12-21 21:02 <wpwrak> zrafa: maybe ask roh. i'm sure he has as backup lying around somewhere.
2010-12-21 21:04 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: what does "work" mean ? can be parsed ? or can be synthesized ? :)
2010-12-21 21:07 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: synthetized then p&r by ngbuild (xilinx tool)
2010-12-21 21:07 <wpwrak> ah, one more missing link then
2010-12-21 21:08 <kristianpaul> step by step :-)
2010-12-21 21:08 <kristianpaul> well i'm just repliny from what i read in mm channel :-)
2010-12-21 21:13 <kristianpaul> actually i want push you get a M1 as well :-)
2010-12-21 21:13 <kristianpaul> if you dont already
2010-12-21 21:16 <wpwrak> nope, don't have one so far
2010-12-21 21:17 <kristianpaul> The example is made to be be just make upload to the board :)
2010-12-21 21:17 <kristianpaul> damn, great things are coming this year :-)
2010-12-21 21:17 <kristianpaul> he !
2010-12-21 21:17 <kristianpaul> hey*
2010-12-21 21:17 <kristianpaul> seems i got my sync register finally to work
2010-12-21 21:17 <kristianpaul> lets see
2010-12-21 21:20 <kristianpaul> hmm i think is posible use llhdl with my avnet and /or sie board or CPLD... due p&r is still done by xilinx sofware..
2010-12-21 21:20 <kristianpaul> hmm
2010-12-21 21:22 <kristianpaul> this signal is connected to multiple drivers
2010-12-21 21:22 <kristianpaul> argg again..
2010-12-21 21:38 <kristianpaul> hmm it synthesise now
2010-12-21 21:41 <xiangfu> kristianpaul: hi I just send one email to openwrt mailing list. try to understand the how to use ImageBuilder, SDK, toolchain, then we maybe can write a wiki page on how to use them.
2010-12-21 21:41 <xiangfu> we see how openwrt people reply :)
2010-12-21 21:42 <kristianpaul> cool !
2010-12-21 21:43 <kristianpaul> i relly believe in owrt simplicity, and SDK is  nice word ;-)
2010-12-21 21:43 <kristianpaul> ha it syncs, but now i have two sync indicators
2010-12-21 21:44 <kristianpaul> xiangfu: Thanks !
2010-12-21 21:44 <xiangfu> kristianpaul: i can sure SDK can compile test new package. but not sure if it can build rootfs. :(
2010-12-21 21:45 <kristianpaul> xiangfu: i remenber i asked that in owrt-devel channel, and got an aswer related to look at the code ! ;-)
2010-12-21 21:46 <kristianpaul> xiangfu: (can build rootfs) is okay, if m rootfs is stable enought why i need change it?, what should be worring is not able to compile sofware easilly for it
2010-12-21 21:46 <kristianpaul> i think thats the rule for jlime sofware, isnt zrafa ?
2010-12-21 21:46 <kristianpaul> (rootfs is stable enought why i need change it?)
2010-12-21 21:48 <xiangfu> kristianpaul: hmm.. I have check the code. seems we can not build rootfs by the "make ....", but I want make sure it with openwrt people.
2010-12-21 21:48 <xiangfu> we need well document the "SDK" :)
2010-12-21 21:49 <xiangfu> kristianpaul: BTW, I found all rootfs files are just there in "SDK", just there is no "entry" in Makefile for create the rootfs.ubi :)
2010-12-21 21:49 <kristianpaul> oh
2010-12-21 22:10 <wpwrak> (rootfs) why not just build it from packages ?
2010-12-21 22:15 <zrafa> kristianpaul: rootfs: yes. For me, one nice thing is to have the bootstrap rootfs. It is really small. Then you just can build your own rootfs installing packages from repo. All is there. IF you would like to have a rootfs with X and icewm, you just install bootstrap and install on, the proper packages from repo (X, icewmm, etc). If you just want a rootfs based on console applications.. you install bootstrap and then install from repo all the console appl
2010-12-21 22:19 <zrafa> It would be: a minimal rootfs (bootstrap) which just boot and give you a shell. ANd then you need a complete repository full of packages ready to install. THen you can have different scripts or Makefiles to build different kind of rootfs using that. Sure, OE does that, openwrt does that, etc.. But all of them has their own rules, which are hard to port between those development systems.
2010-12-21 22:25 <zrafa> kristianpaul: another ugly thing I see is when the upstream development system you use change something, then you find problems to build new rootfs, to use preivous packages built, to run applications which previously worked but no now that upstream changed lib-X.. etc. I like one stable thing. And for me, it means that I am comfortable with something to play. And here that means that I have a huge repository ready, built, useful. I will change next year,
2010-12-21 22:26 <zrafa> you can have a lot of fun building the rootfs of your dreams because you are not worried about software, you are worried about how well it is set or how nice your applications look.
2010-12-21 22:29 <zrafa> I will change next year=maybe I will change IT next year
2010-12-21 22:30 <kristianpaul> i see this cycle:  devel base rootfs> test got stable and freeze > compile non esencial packakes, get it work with current rootfs > imrprove those apps > enjoy
2010-12-21 22:31 <kristianpaul> after enjoy time will pass until somebody got bored and want a new rootfs (if this really happens ;-))
2010-12-21 22:32 <zrafa> kristianpaul: if somebody got bored and want a new rootfs, he can take bootstrap and install on that packages he wants for his new rootfs. Nothing will break, because you are using the same repo and the same bootstrap.
2010-12-21 22:33 <kristianpaul> hmm
2010-12-21 22:33 <kristianpaul> good point
2010-12-21 22:33 <kristianpaul> now how libs influence all this?
2010-12-21 22:34 <zrafa> kristianpaul: when I say "install on that packages" I am not saying "download, build and install", I am saying "install the package.ipk" from repo, which is already built
2010-12-21 22:34 <zrafa> kristianpaul: all the libs on the same repo are okey, you could install all of them and the system will not break
2010-12-21 22:35 <kristianpaul> are libs finally, thats truth
2010-12-21 22:35 <zrafa> kristianpaul: the bootstrap has minimal libs, the basic libs for init, shell/busybox, whatever.
2010-12-21 22:35 <kristianpaul> ujum
2010-12-21 22:36 <kristianpaul> owrt have great future and relly on SDK sucess i think
2010-12-21 22:37 <zrafa> i would like to have a debian or fedora repo for mobile devices. Then -> FUN
2010-12-21 22:39 <zrafa> well, there is  fun porting and fixing things when these do not build or needs some twicks for mobile devices. But it would be nicer if all the repo is ready and you just use your dreams to use the repo properly, building different kind of rootfs which you know will work.
2010-12-21 22:40 <wpwrak> zrafa: (rootfs) with opkg-target, you can go even one step further back and generate the rootfs from scratch. all you need are a few system directories and a small number of config/script files.
2010-12-21 22:40 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: (scratch) upstream? or local sources?
2010-12-21 22:41 <zrafa> kristianpaul: we are confusing "building rootfs" with building (compiling) software
2010-12-21 22:42 <kristianpaul> hmm yes
2010-12-21 22:42 <zrafa> kristianpaul: I mean, repo is there.. all is built, you will not build (compile) software
2010-12-21 22:42 <kristianpaul> zrafa: what i will build then?
2010-12-21 22:43 <zrafa> wpwrak: yes, you are right :) opkg-target could be used for building the rootfs from scratch
2010-12-21 22:43 <zrafa> kristianpaul: you will build your rootfs :)
2010-12-21 22:43 <zrafa> kristianpaul: you will use opkg-target on your pc, you will tell opkg-target to install on some dir the packages (from repo) : eglibc, init, bash, etc..
2010-12-21 22:43 <kristianpaul> in that sense build = copy and arrange bianries and config files??
2010-12-21 22:44 <zrafa> kristianpaul: all of them are packages already built (packages.ipk)
2010-12-21 22:44 <zrafa> build = install packages
2010-12-21 22:44 <kristianpaul> oh i was thinking other thing
2010-12-21 22:44 <zrafa> and maybe yes, set some config files or things like a wallpaper if you use some GUI
2010-12-21 22:44 <zrafa> (just to tell you an example)
2010-12-21 22:45 <zrafa> kristianpaul: now, are you following the idea? :)
2010-12-21 22:46 <zrafa> well, bed time
2010-12-21 22:46 <kristianpaul> yes
2010-12-21 22:46 <zrafa> I need to dream :)
2010-12-21 22:47 <kristianpaul> oh sure 00:47 there !
2010-12-21 22:47 <kristianpaul> n8 then :)
2010-12-21 22:47 <zrafa> cya
2010-12-21 23:12 <wpwrak> (build from scratch) i did it with openmoko: http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/myroot/
2010-12-21 23:13 <wpwrak> this is the script that puts together a rootfs (with a fair amount of stuff, very shell-oriented): http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/myroot/werner.myroot
2010-12-21 23:13 <wpwrak> and this would be /sbin/init on this system: http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/myroot/werner.init
2010-12-21 23:15 <wpwrak> (and that's all there is in terms of configuration specific to this device/rootfs. there's a bit more general setup in the "myroot" script)