2010-12-03 02:47 viric: (benchmark) don't know.. maybe need to ask in mailing lists, someone should remember 2010-12-03 03:12 kyak: do you know if openwrt brings the SIMD mplayer? 2010-12-03 03:22 don't see it in packages 2010-12-03 03:32 [commit] kyak: config.debug: the minimal .config with debugging capabilities http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/1c5d309 2010-12-03 03:37 larsc: does oprofile work fine on the nanonote? 2010-12-03 03:37 kyak: ok. I wonder if someone is building it nowadays. 2010-12-03 03:38 I even don't know what parts there were 'accelerated' 2010-12-03 03:40 are you talking about SIMD player? 2010-12-03 03:40 i don't know what SIMD is :) 2010-12-03 03:40 kyak: config.debug could also include logging daemons set to 'debug' logging 2010-12-03 03:40 mplayer is ported, however 2010-12-03 03:41 wolfspraul: good idea! however, now we have those daemons disabled in /etc/init.d/boot :) 2010-12-03 03:42 wolfspraul: it's just some things depend on things other than .config.. maybe their own config files 2010-12-03 03:42 so maybe let the user who is into debugging make this decisions by his own? 2010-12-03 03:55 kyak: Single Instruction Multiple Data. MXU instructions, on xburst, I think. 2010-12-03 03:58 viric: have no idea.. openwrt mplayer is not patched, so it might not take advantage of xburst specifics 2010-12-03 03:58 i've seen patched maplyer from ingenic 2010-12-03 03:58 kyak: 2010-12-03 03:58 but it's based on some older version 2010-12-03 03:58 Yes, I talk about that 2010-12-03 03:59 So there is noone in the nanonote using a 'fast' mplayer? Also jlime uses only the upstream? 2010-12-03 03:59 i'm not suffering of some lack of performance, to tell the truth :) 2010-12-03 04:00 don't know about jlime 2010-12-03 04:00 and mplayer in openwrt is just a standart mplayer 2010-12-03 04:00 can you play theora videos? 2010-12-03 04:00 as it goes from mplayer developers 2010-12-03 04:01 not tried playing theora videos 2010-12-03 04:01 thereis a weird bug though 2010-12-03 04:01 both in openwrt and jlime 2010-12-03 04:02 when you fast forward several times in a row, thereis a sqeeqy sound from speaker 2010-12-03 04:02 and it won't stop 2010-12-03 04:02 until you reboot 2010-12-03 04:02 perhaps you will find it yourself 2010-12-03 04:03 oh 2010-12-03 04:03 In fact, the mplayer I built had a very bad performance. 2010-12-03 04:04 it depends on used codecs a lot 2010-12-03 04:04 which do you use? 2010-12-03 04:04 and the video resolution, of course 2010-12-03 04:05 saying simplier, what;s your command line? 2010-12-03 04:05 to encode and to play videos 2010-12-03 04:05 Maybe I chose it to use floating point, and I did not notice. 2010-12-03 04:05 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/mplayer/README 2010-12-03 04:06 this approch works pretty well here 2010-12-03 04:06 ah, I took an h264 video at 640x480 :) 2010-12-03 04:06 kyak: I'll check. thank you" 2010-12-03 04:06 oh, good for you then 2010-12-03 04:06 hehe 2010-12-03 04:06 even my laptop is not capable playing such videos :) 2010-12-03 04:06 what codecs you advise? 2010-12-03 04:07 does your kernel has floating point emulation? 2010-12-03 04:07 can it do xvid? 2010-12-03 04:07 Even if it has, I don't want to use it 2010-12-03 04:07 I don't remember if I disabled it finally 2010-12-03 04:07 i think xvid should be fine 2010-12-03 04:08 i convert it to mpeg to watch on ben 2010-12-03 04:08 mpeg2? 2010-12-03 04:08 vcodec=mpeg1video 2010-12-03 04:08 just have a look at commnd line i shown you 2010-12-03 04:09 mplayer has some floating point computations 2010-12-03 04:09 i've seen it fixed in ingenic's patch 2010-12-03 04:09 kernel emulation would be very bad... 2010-12-03 04:09 My toolchain builds always for soft-float, so it should never end up using the kernel emulation 2010-12-03 04:09 however, i don't think this causes some real overhead 2010-12-03 04:10 btw, you can try playing your video with -nosound 2010-12-03 04:11 and then with -vo null 2010-12-03 04:11 and for sound, what do you use? 2010-12-03 04:11 then you can see if it is video or audio that's causing this performance droppage 2010-12-03 04:11 for the audio track 2010-12-03 04:11 viric: haven't you had a look at the link i gave you? ;) 2010-12-03 04:12 link? 2010-12-03 04:12 AH 2010-12-03 04:12 12:03:54 < kyak> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/mplayer/README 2010-12-03 04:12 will read. 2010-12-03 04:12 :) 2010-12-03 04:13 however, i then switched to that: 2010-12-03 04:14 mp2 audio, mpeg1 video? now I understand why you don't experience performance problems with the upstream mplayer :) 2010-12-03 04:14 btw, that mplayer command line is to me like a 'blob' is to free software ;) 2010-12-03 04:15 can't find the command line, switched to liblame 2010-12-03 04:16 viric: i don't really care if it's "free" or "not free" when it comes to my own convenience 2010-12-03 04:16 hehe 2010-12-03 04:16 btw, that's why mplayer depends on BUILD_PATENTED 2010-12-03 04:17 it's in my todo list to split it to free and patented :) 2010-12-03 04:17 have you tried the vp8? 2010-12-03 04:17 They have specific assembly for arm, at least 2010-12-03 04:17 no, what's that? 2010-12-03 04:17 I don't know if for mips 2010-12-03 04:17 the video codec patent free for webm 2010-12-03 04:17 bsd licensed 2010-12-03 04:18 is it supported by maplyer? 2010-12-03 04:19 viric: sorry, got to go now.. thanks for you hint. might want to have a look later... 2010-12-03 04:20 kyak: vlc plays it fine :) and ffmpeg can use it fine 2010-12-03 04:20 kyak: I don't remember playing it in mplayer though 2010-12-03 04:26 maybe vlc would work better than mplayer 2010-12-03 08:00 hmm 2010-12-03 08:00 is the entirety of gtk/glib running on the ben? 2010-12-03 08:00 hmm 2010-12-03 08:01 in wich os? 2010-12-03 08:01 owrt 2010-12-03 08:01 i think you can compile owrt with gtk support too 2010-12-03 08:01 it was a blog entry from mirko i think 2010-12-03 08:01 long time ago 2010-12-03 08:02 I know there's gtk support 2010-12-03 08:02 one of the default apps uses gtk 2010-12-03 08:02 stardict iirc 2010-12-03 08:02 yeah, looks gtk-y 2010-12-03 08:06 I guess I could just try 2010-12-03 08:06 but it'd be crappy if it fails 2010-12-03 08:06 (as I'm going to write a program) 2010-12-03 08:11 in gtk? 2010-12-03 08:23 yes 2010-12-03 08:24 wht not SDL? :) 2010-12-03 08:27 because.. I'm going for a GUI, not anything needing real graphics 2010-12-03 08:28 ah ok 2010-12-03 12:26 wow.. a minimal system with debug and without stripping is > 700 Mb 2010-12-03 12:27 to the hell with that debug idea 2010-12-03 12:27 oh, maybe this is when qemu is coming handy 2010-12-03 12:52 kyak: 700 mb image? 2010-12-03 12:52 maybe still makes sense via the ImageBuilder, so people don't have to rebuild it all, just add a package they want to debug... 2010-12-03 13:12 my bad, this image has stardict.. pretty many dependencies 2010-12-03 14:06 kyak: 700mb image? it's not that bad 2010-12-03 14:08 trying to do some debuggin inside the qemu.. 2010-12-03 14:09 gdb says utils.c:904: internal-error: virtual memory exhausted: can't allocate 13263733 bytes. 2010-12-03 14:09 that's things like libsomething-dbg ? 2010-12-03 14:09 kyak: give memory to qemu 2010-12-03 14:09 of course there is enough memory 2010-12-03 14:09 ah :) 2010-12-03 14:09 so it's strange.. 2010-12-03 14:10 doesn't anyone here have a more powerful mips than the nanonote? 2010-12-03 14:10 I think I could run the nanonote programs in a chroot in a Fuloong MiniPC 2010-12-03 14:10 you? :) 2010-12-03 14:10 :) 2010-12-03 14:10 speed is not the problem :) 2010-12-03 14:11 i'll try to debug something else 2010-12-03 14:11 maybe stardict is too damn tricky 2010-12-03 14:11 kyak: try gdbserver, and debug on the PC 2010-12-03 14:11 a very good idea 2010-12-03 14:11 should i run gdbserver on my PC? 2010-12-03 14:11 no 2010-12-03 14:12 gdb in your PC, gdbserver in the nanonote 2010-12-03 14:12 or qemu 2010-12-03 14:12 ah, ok.. will have to read about that 2010-12-03 14:12 you need a gdb that can understand mips though 2010-12-03 14:12 a 'cross-gdb' 2010-12-03 14:12 yes, such is avaialble 2010-12-03 14:12 in a toolchain 2010-12-03 14:12 you can use the network 2010-12-03 14:13 Starting program: /bin/ls 2010-12-03 14:13 vfork: Cannot allocate memory. 2010-12-03 14:13 you start a gdbserver in one side... and in the cross-gdb in the pc you run "target remote xx.xx.xx.xx:1234" whatever ip:port there. 2010-12-03 14:13 it's really-really strange 2010-12-03 14:13 maybe that gdb is not very well built 2010-12-03 14:13 gdb is not able to debug even simpliest apps 2010-12-03 14:13 I'll try with mine... 2010-12-03 14:13 yes, maybe 2010-12-03 14:14 will try with gdbserver 2010-12-03 14:17 viric: I have ran gdb in nanonote without problems 2010-12-03 14:55 rafa: good to know! :) 2010-12-03 15:50 Hi everyone ! 2010-12-03 15:50 I wanted to ask a software question about the Ben Nanonote 2010-12-03 15:51 lunavorax: ask away 2010-12-03 15:51 we won't know if anyone can answer it before it has been posed 2010-12-03 15:51 What display server (or windows manager, I have troubles figuring out the good word) is used on the Ben Nanonote instead of X.org (or is it X11 ? can't figure out) 2010-12-03 15:51 none 2010-12-03 15:51 the openwrt kernel uses direct framebuffer access 2010-12-03 15:51 So how does the display work ? 2010-12-03 15:51 Ok 2010-12-03 15:52 jlime has an X server 2010-12-03 15:52 openwrt kernel = regular gnu/linux kernel right ? 2010-12-03 15:52 the one that comes preinstalled and the official qi-hardware one, yes 2010-12-03 15:52 why do you ask, if I may? 2010-12-03 15:53 Well I was just wondering how it was working 2010-12-03 15:53 I started wondering with something unrealated in fact 2010-12-03 15:53 The Wayland project 2010-12-03 15:53 well, good thing a lot of toolkits have fb support 2010-12-03 15:53 Yeah 2010-12-03 15:54 oh heh, I doubt we'll see the needed hardware acceleration 2010-12-03 15:54 Also I saw a guy made one here "because X11 sucks" on github 2010-12-03 15:54 No no I wasn't talking about that 2010-12-03 15:54 It's just that it started my question about how all this stuff was working 2010-12-03 15:55 Also I already knew that X11 was slow and I was "at last a descent replacment" 2010-12-03 15:56 well display server architecture is an interesting topic 2010-12-03 15:56 and I love it how they said they weren't going to care about network transparency so much, and then specifically the shitstorm of scared users saying "but I need networked displays!" 2010-12-03 15:57 not realizing that the wayland guys still want that possibility 2010-12-03 15:57 (also I was wondering when I saw that some libraries like Allegro could make softwares that doesn't need X to run 2010-12-03 15:57 ah well 2010-12-03 15:58 well, afaik there are only a few real options for rendering 2010-12-03 15:58 Yeah I actually didn't understood what network transparency (in fact all the network stuff on a local display server concept) 2010-12-03 15:58 framebuffers are quite direct 2010-12-03 15:58 there's X 2010-12-03 15:58 there's OpenGL 2010-12-03 15:58 and then now there's wayland, but afaik it runs on top of gl 2010-12-03 15:59 Yeah 2010-12-03 15:59 You think it's a default ? 2010-12-03 15:59 well, you see, X' network transparency is kind of weird 2010-12-03 15:59 you see 2010-12-03 15:59 instead of using direct calls 2010-12-03 15:59 or even unix sockets 2010-12-03 15:59 or named pipes 2010-12-03 15:59 you use full-blown network sockets 2010-12-03 16:00 *always* 2010-12-03 16:00 which is inefficient 2010-12-03 16:00 Oh wait OpenGL 2010-12-03 16:00 Does that means that when I use Compiz, it doesn't use X anymore ? 2010-12-03 16:00 bartbes: (always) unless you use SHM 2010-12-03 16:01 shm? 2010-12-03 16:01 lunavorax: it does use X 2010-12-03 16:01 ;) 2010-12-03 16:01 Haha ok 2010-12-03 16:01 but iirc the X server needs GL extensions 2010-12-03 16:02 bartbes: X uses unix sockets locally 2010-12-03 16:02 oh right 2010-12-03 16:02 but still, sockets 2010-12-03 16:02 bartbes: shared memory. x has a number of ways for using more efficient paths when available. 2010-12-03 16:02 I mean, I didn't spend too much time looking into this stuff 2010-12-03 16:02 bartbes: you have a strong opinion though ;) 2010-12-03 16:02 I just read tiny bits of info spread over time, then combined that 2010-12-03 16:03 viric: the less you know, the easier it is to hold a strong belief ;-) 2010-12-03 16:03 wpwrak_: that is not true 2010-12-03 16:03 I mean, I said I read tiny bits 2010-12-03 16:03 but I read a lot of them 2010-12-03 16:04 :P 2010-12-03 16:04 I mean, in all this time I have absorbed quite a bit of information 2010-12-03 16:04 and it helps me not be a sheep 2010-12-03 16:04 :) 2010-12-03 16:04 it's one of the reasons I'm not shouting "I need  network transparency, X rules, wayland sucks, and canonical sucks" 2010-12-03 16:05 It feels comfortable that, most software we have today is built on X instead of something else that may not be easily used through a network 2010-12-03 16:06 Maybe it could be better, and new software is going to show that... but luckily we don't have something worse :) 2010-12-03 16:06 hmm 2010-12-03 16:06 the thing is 2010-12-03 16:06 it makes no diff in the programs themselves 2010-12-03 16:06 it's probably a small diff in the toolkit (for the networking, of course X support is quite a bit more complicated) 2010-12-03 16:06 bartbes: yeah, my comment was a little nasty, i admit :) 2010-12-03 16:06 and that is the goal of the transparency 2010-12-03 16:07 a program doesn't need to have a clue 2010-12-03 16:07 well, a program for X does not have to have a lot of clue. 2010-12-03 16:07 It could be better, sure. 2010-12-03 16:08 tbh there are lots of programs that don't have a clue 2010-12-03 16:08 same goes for programmers 2010-12-03 16:08 but that is something entirely unrelated :P 2010-12-03 16:08 :) 2010-12-03 16:08 I never wrote a program dealing with the X libs directly... 2010-12-03 16:08 The kind of abstraction you may want is that given by Qt or similar. Isn't it? 2010-12-03 16:11 yup. or Gtk, SDL, ... 2010-12-03 16:11 they may draw some concepts from X, e.g., color allocation, but they wrap them into their own style and mechanisms 2010-12-03 16:12 SDL is very nice 2010-12-03 16:13 it can do fb, X, svgalib and more 2010-12-03 16:13 transparent to the program 2010-12-03 16:14 anyway, I did some xlib 2010-12-03 16:14 not to put something on the screen, but I needed the Xlib features 2010-12-03 16:14 isn't xcb any better? 2010-12-03 16:14 no idea 2010-12-03 16:14 I just know it had the direct access I needed 2010-12-03 16:15 I have been tempted to write a new GUI for freerunner using just C + fb and sdl, because after some tests it is the fatest thing I have seen :).. but I dream with a lot of things I will be doing.. And then, at the end of the year, I realize that I just did two or three things of that 200 items list I often dream ;-)) 2010-12-03 16:15 X is very bad at caching application buffers though 2010-12-03 16:17 rafa: (3/200) a common problem ;) 2010-12-03 16:18 viric: caching? 2010-12-03 16:19 you mean what wayland is trying to solve (amongst other problems) by letting the application tell the server what to redraw when? 2010-12-03 16:19 bartbes: so any redraw needed in the server goes to the client. 2010-12-03 16:19 wpwrak_: it gets worst because the 200 items number increases a lot every year.. and the items done does not so fast than total items todo :D 2010-12-03 16:19 bartbes: I'm not following wayland 2010-12-03 16:19 rafa: ah, exponential growth. now that is bad :) 2010-12-03 16:20 wpwrak_: you should clear the list sometime ;) 2010-12-03 16:21 viric: are redraws really that big a problem ? and X11 should still have server-side backing store. http://www.ess.co.at/FAQ/faq001.html 2010-12-03 16:22 server-side backing store? I never saw it 2010-12-03 16:22 ohh nice option 2010-12-03 16:23 wpwrak_: but that does not work as cache, right? I mean that the option will change what the user sees, but not the network usage. 2010-12-03 16:26 as far as i understand it, it does work as a sever-side cache 2010-12-03 16:28 http://www.x.org/archive/X11R6.8.1/doc/ati5.html section 5.15 2010-12-03 16:35 why isn't "backingstore" a default? 2010-12-03 16:35 it may have a counterpart other than 'it takes more memory' 2010-12-03 16:39 if you're local and the content isn't particularly hard to recreate, redraws may be good enough. in fact, i think redraws may be relatively infrequent anyway. 2010-12-03 16:40 they happen on window resizing, or a window getting in front of another 2010-12-03 16:40 i think the tendency nowadays is a "redraw from model" pipe anyway 2010-12-03 16:41 yes, and how often do you resize/restack windows, compared to other operations ? :) 2010-12-03 16:41 restacking could be a problem if don't have enough screen space, though. 2010-12-03 16:42 ah, and when you resize, you probably want to redraw anyway 2010-12-03 16:43 wpwrak_: I resize often, using a tiling window manager :) 2010-12-03 16:43 particularly if you follow the "redraw from model" paradigm 2010-12-03 16:43 urgh :) 2010-12-03 16:57 wpwrak_: also causes a redraw the switching of 'desktops' 2010-12-03 16:58 or however you call it. 2010-12-03 16:58 Full screens of organized windows. 2010-12-03 17:00 yeah, switching desktops is something i do a lot, too 2010-12-03 17:01 do you have that option switched on, for caching? 2010-12-03 17:01 ah, the other one is save-under. e.g., when you pop up a window on top of another, the occluded window gets saved 2010-12-03 17:02 no, neither of them 2010-12-03 17:03 i'm not sure they would accelerate what i'm doing much. most things are fast anyway ;-) 2010-12-03 17:13 :) 2010-12-03 17:13 you helped me a lot letting me know the options are there. 2010-12-03 17:13 When I'll experience X11 network speed troubles, I may remember them 2010-12-03 17:54 kyak: gdb works here, I think 2010-12-03 17:57 (the less you know, the easier it is to hold a strong belief) That works almost everywhere 2010-12-03 18:55 git can just tell me commit history for my current folder? 2010-12-03 18:56 sie code generator?.. 2010-12-03 18:56 will be nice if carlos camargo once at week join irc and tell us what he is doing 2010-12-03 18:57 or at least ping he here 2010-12-03 18:58 thats the top !! 2010-12-03 18:59 What on earth is doing a  deb package there  http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/nn-usb-fpga/source/tree/master/Examples/UNFURO/avrdude_5.10-1_i386.deb 2010-12-03 18:59 :S 2010-12-03 18:59 what a mess : 2010-12-03 19:03 ;-) 2010-12-03 19:09 oh something is wrong with my local git, i'm tryin to commit to qi and is pushing to github? O_o 2010-12-03 19:14 git is self hosted config isnt? 2010-12-03 19:15 cause i reinstalled debian some weeks ago and dint backup nothing about git config (in general) 2010-12-03 19:18 fatal: Path 'tools/adc/sofware/jz47xx_gpio.c' is in submodule 'tools/adc/sofware' 2010-12-03 19:18 what that means "speaking git" ? 2010-12-03 19:22 [commit] Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas: created notes folder http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-gps-sdr/1c2e0de 2010-12-03 19:29 kristianpaul: there's a ~/.gitconfig, e.g., with your name and email 2010-12-03 19:29 dammit 2010-12-03 19:29 not sure about the other things 2010-12-03 19:30 (gitconfig) it's simple: [user]\n\tname = Your Name\n\temail = you@mail.foo\n 2010-12-03 19:30 that's it :) 2010-12-03 19:30 yes 2010-12-03 19:30 no i said dammit cause i still getting "fatal: Path..." 2010-12-03 19:31 and i just cloned the repo again and copied files in side 2010-12-03 19:31 ah ... that sounds like more fun :) google ? 2010-12-03 19:31 yes 2010-12-03 19:35 [commit] Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas: missing simple(stupid) code to initialize and read adc buffer http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-gps-sdr/351e1d5 2010-12-03 19:35 solved 2010-12-03 19:38 what was it ? 2010-12-03 19:41 dont know i think related to cache 2010-12-03 19:41 i just copied and pasted some commands 2010-12-03 19:42 ;-)) 2010-12-03 19:42 btw about my problem with 8Mhz signaling i solved it, well was for sie initially but can be re-used in the ben 2010-12-03 19:42 a SPI  to Parallel converter 2010-12-03 19:43 is easy cause the signal is just 4 bit per sync 2010-12-03 19:44 son ben actually can handle  2Mh IO 2010-12-03 19:44 once it work on SIE i may try fit it on CPLD or just wire sie to ben 2010-12-03 19:45 i was thinking to implemented a 2k buffer on FPGA, as the original adc in SIE (wich is SPI too) works 2010-12-03 19:51 We need  a map with people timezones :) 2010-12-03 20:21 wpwrak_: you remenber sdram speed of ben? 2010-12-03 20:21 troughput** 2010-12-03 21:10 hmm no, don't remember. it ought to be somewhere in the archive ;-) 2010-12-03 21:11 (spi-par converter) congratulations ! 2010-12-03 21:31 nah not yet