2010-11-14 00:24 rafa: great job, congrats! 2010-11-14 00:29 xiangfu: now that gmenu2x is running from initd, setfont2 has to be invoked manually each time -\ 2010-11-14 00:40 rafa: wheee ! 2010-11-14 01:07 rafa: just poking around the jlime resources ... regarding PS1='\h$ ', why not PS1='\h\$ ' ? (in case you haven't found this one already) 2010-11-14 01:21 rafa: if i install jlime and i want to compile a "hello world" for it, how do i do this ? i.e., what do i install on my host and what do i put into my Makefile ? (i hope the answer to the first question isn't "OE" ;-) 2010-11-14 01:22 wpwrak: the prompt was meant to use a short space on the current line.. but it shoulg be \h\$ 2010-11-14 01:22 shoulg=should 2010-11-14 01:24 wpwrak: to compile hello world : wget http://jlime.com/downloads/development/crosscompilers/jlime-mipsel-toolchain.tar.gz 2010-11-14 01:25 wpwrak: to build the hello I put the toolchain under /usr/local/jlime.. Something like : 2010-11-14 01:25 mkdir /usr/local/jlime 2010-11-14 01:25 cd /usr/local/jlime 2010-11-14 01:25 tar xvzf /tmp/jlime-mipsel-toolchain.tar.gz 2010-11-14 01:25 then.. the Makefile should say : 2010-11-14 01:26 -I /usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/include 2010-11-14 01:26 -L/usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/lib 2010-11-14 01:26 and your PATH should be something like PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/bin/ 2010-11-14 01:27 under /usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/bin/ you will find th 2010-11-14 01:27 e mipsel-toolcahin-* gcc and friends 2010-11-14 01:28 wpwrak: because this toolcahin comes from OE it will complain if you try to build with it using something like -I/usr/include or -L/usr/lib (it does not like if you try to use your host headers or libs) 2010-11-14 01:30 GCC should be mipsel-toolchain-gcc , LD should be mipsel-toolchain-ld .. etc. 2010-11-14 01:31 wpwrak: to build kernel using that toolchain : http://jlime.com/downloads/releases/muffinman/documentation/kernel-nn.txt 2010-11-14 01:35 rafa: fantastic, congratulations! 2010-11-14 01:37 rafa: thanks ! downloading ... 2010-11-14 01:38 rafa: btw, the toolchain shouldn't really need -I and -L for standard includes/libs. but let's see ... 2010-11-14 01:42 rafa: btw, all the directories in that URL are inaccessible. that's not so nice. e.g., when a URL changes, one can often find the right name by searching around a bit. if directory listings are blocked, you don't have a chance 2010-11-14 01:42 wpwrak: (toolchain): no idea.. I have had problems with the toolchain complaining when some Makefile spec /usr/lib or /usr/include 2010-11-14 01:42 hehe, a toolchain with /etc/rc* ;-) 2010-11-14 01:43 yes, if they specify -I and -L of absolute paths directly, they're doomed 2010-11-14 01:44 wpwrak: ha.. (stuff on toolchain) ..: that comes from extra libs I would say (from packages I unpackaged under toolchain) 2010-11-14 01:44 /usr/mipsel-linux/lib-oldbackup/ ? huh :) 2010-11-14 01:45 ah, more hairy stuff in there. /usr/include/smpeg 2010-11-14 01:45 wpwrak: ha.. sorry.. but that toolchain comes from jlime.com.. if you want I can work in a new one 2010-11-14 01:46 wpwrak: (you downloaded it from http://jlime.com/downloads/development/crosscompilers/jlime-mipsel-toolchain.tar.gz right?) 2010-11-14 01:46 yes, i downloaded the url you gave me 2010-11-14 01:46 wpwrak: yes.. the only one around. That is from jlime.com so it is the standar one with all the packages 2010-11-14 01:47 will it be easy to kick out the "bad" packages ? 2010-11-14 01:48 wpwrak: today I will built a new one without bad packages so we can upload it as well under qi 2010-11-14 01:48 kewl. thanks a lot ! 2010-11-14 01:48 wpwrak: moreover that toolchain is a bit old and I am not sure the current status (I just use it to build the kernel or uboot) 2010-11-14 01:50 right now, i'm just after builing my little atrf-rssi. well, hello.c first ;-) 2010-11-14 01:51 well, hello.c will be okey to build :) 2010-11-14 01:54 hmm. my host is x86_64. here we have the first problem ... 2010-11-14 02:04 wpwrak: :( can not you run 32bit as well? 2010-11-14 02:07 this helps: http://qtmoko.org/wiki/GITs 2010-11-14 02:07 now it doesn't find crt1.o ... 2010-11-14 02:13 it tries interesting paths ;-) /mnt/sda6/programas/stuff/tmp/staging/mipsel-linux/lib/mipsel-linux/4.4.2/crt1.o 2010-11-14 02:16 there's a bit of weird stuff, e.g., /usr/local/jlime/mipsel-toolchain/usr/bin/../lib/gcc/mipsel-linux/4.4.2/../../../../mipsel-linux/lib -> /mnt/sda6/programas/stuff/tmp/staging/mipsel-linux/usr/lib 2010-11-14 02:22 i wonder if the toolchain is really fully relocatable in general. it's very close to working, but ... 2010-11-14 02:23 anyway, i'll be back after a nap 2010-11-14 02:23 wpwrak: at least it does not try /porn_downloadedbysister/ or stuff like that :) .. Those paths are from the host built. THere are few recipes to build an external toolchain. I will buid and I will upload 2010-11-14 02:25 yeah, such paths could be revealing ;-) 2010-11-14 02:26 (ext toolchain) great, thanks ! 2010-11-14 02:53 rafa: are we ready to move to the dual-booting stage? 2010-11-14 02:55 maybe we need another (hard-coded) partition scheme for that :-) how about this: 4 mb u-boot, 8 mb kernel1, 8mb kernel2, 512mb rootfs1, 512mb rootfs2, rest is (ubi-formatted?) data partition? 2010-11-14 04:31 lol 2010-11-14 04:32 talks about another change :) 2010-11-14 04:32 how about 5 kernels? 2010-11-14 04:33 kyak: so how would you go about the jlime/openwrt dual booting? 2010-11-14 04:36 wolfspraul: do you plan shipping new devices with two operating systems? 2010-11-14 04:36 this might be so very confusing 2010-11-14 04:37 i imagine that i buy a new phone, switch it on and have two options to boot 2010-11-14 04:42 kyak: I can't make decisions so broadly, there are too many pros and cons. 2010-11-14 04:43 of course asking "do you want jlime or openwrt?" is, well, laughable :-) 2010-11-14 04:43 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: [nanoterm] [new package] a terminal for NanoNote http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/9124119 2010-11-14 04:44 and all sorts of solutions can be imagined, too many (and too many pros and cons for each) to discuss. 2010-11-14 04:44 so I rather go along very practical lines. 2010-11-14 04:44 do we have a Jlime image now? yes 2010-11-14 04:44 is it patent-safe so that distributors can (with some certainty) resell NanoNote with that image? yes 2010-11-14 04:45 is the image functional? many people like it, so yes 2010-11-14 04:45 so if that's the case, wouldn't we want to make it easier for people to try out this work? especially considering that we ship the NanoNote with a >80% empty NAND? 2010-11-14 04:46 I think yes, we should make that easier. 2010-11-14 04:46 why not? why is that a bad idea? 2010-11-14 04:48 my biggest concern is how maintainable the image is, especially on the patent side. But I think we can be assured by rafa and the Jlime crew, these guys are in for the long run. 2010-11-14 04:49 mirko: hey good morning :-) 2010-11-14 04:49 I'm writing an email with some of my image observations/testing now 2010-11-14 04:49 I only ran into 1 big bug, I think: I cannot quit NanoMap (it hangs), and kyak and others think that in general every Qt app will hang on exit. 2010-11-14 04:52 wolfspraul: we need to come up with some plan, to fix partitions once and for all.. 2010-11-14 04:55 kyak: what exactly bugs you about the partitions? 2010-11-14 04:55 what does the 'fix' need to make easier? 2010-11-14 04:56 i don't want to save and move my data often 2010-11-14 04:56 in fact, i even stayed with 256 Mb because i don't want to move my data 2010-11-14 04:57 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: [stardict] add cache files for dictionary, for speed up when startup http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f179ae2 2010-11-14 04:58 your data is in the mtd3 partition? 2010-11-14 04:58 yes 2010-11-14 04:58 so basically your data starts at 4+4+256=264MB, and then to the end of the 2GB? 2010-11-14 04:58 indeed 2010-11-14 04:58 it doesn't occupy all available space though 2010-11-14 04:58 and as we are coming out with new stuff, you don't want to move those 1.7GB around all the time... 2010-11-14 04:59 what filesystem are you using for your data partition? 2010-11-14 04:59 it's ubifs 2010-11-14 04:59 it's just a usual data partition 2010-11-14 04:59 per instruction in wiki 2010-11-14 05:00 ok let me just get a complete picture now - at which mountpoint do you have it mounted? 2010-11-14 05:00 /data 2010-11-14 05:00 and if you stay with the 256 MB layout, that means you will not be able to reflash rootfs images if they become larger than 256 mb? 2010-11-14 05:00 yes, this is right.. but my customs images won't get bigger than that 2010-11-14 05:01 i've thrown away unnecessary things 2010-11-14 05:01 like php or ruby, and many other i won't ever need 2010-11-14 05:01 ok so you are building your own openwrt rootfs anyway 2010-11-14 05:01 yeah.. 2010-11-14 05:01 but if the partition map is hardcoded in the kernel that's yet another thing you need to fix before building your stuff? 2010-11-14 05:02 yes, this is what i have to do 2010-11-14 05:02 how full is your data partition? 2010-11-14 05:02 it's usually arounf 1 Gb full 2010-11-14 05:03 sometimes i fill it completely with movies 2010-11-14 05:04 ok needs some thinking :-) 2010-11-14 05:05 I'd say no worries, if your life doesn't get easier we are doing something wrong... 2010-11-14 05:05 wolfspraul: don't waste your time thinking about it.. it's not so hard for me to make some changes to hardcoded partitions 2010-11-14 05:05 before i build 2010-11-14 05:05 so as long as you give some feedback, if we (or me :-)) are coming up with stupid ideas, they should get corrected before they can cause damage... :-) 2010-11-14 05:06 sure I can understand, but still 2010-11-14 05:06 those are good use cases you have there 2010-11-14 05:06 in marketing speak, our 'upgrade story' is still very very bad 2010-11-14 05:07 and if you look at successful computing devices, it's always those with the best 'upgrade story' that have a chance to become really successful 2010-11-14 05:07 whether that's installing apps, or OS updates, or good backups (device lost/stolen), etc. etc. 2010-11-14 05:07 so we have quite a way to go there... 2010-11-14 05:08 I'm definitely not only thinking about the "how can I reflash stuff" side of things. you are one step ahead. you have 1gb of data in your nand that you want to protect. 2010-11-14 05:08 makes perfect sense! 2010-11-14 05:08 i think the project right now in the state when it is still possible to make really big changes.. but with the time, it would not be possible any more 2010-11-14 05:10 xiangfu: nanoterm looks interesting, but it's not usable? 2010-11-14 05:10 i can type (in capital letters for some reason), but nothing happens 2010-11-14 05:12 kyak: someone write a terminal only for NanoNote. so we would like included by openwrt-package.git 2010-11-14 05:13 kyak: http://nterm.sourceforge.net/ 2010-11-14 05:13 kyak: for now the gmenu2x start the terminal very well, I would like gmenu2x in "inittab". 2010-11-14 05:13 xiangfu: does nanoterm work for you? 2010-11-14 05:14 kyak: it working. only hard to read. 2010-11-14 05:14 xiangfu: about gmenu2x, the setfont2 is not started in the first terminal 2010-11-14 05:15 kyak: yes. so I would like add a "bash" to gmenu2x. 2010-11-14 05:15 then we can start the "bash" in gmenu2x 2010-11-14 05:15 xiangfu: ah, so you would call setfont2 in the script to start "bash"? 2010-11-14 05:16 kyak: that's what I am thinking for now. 2010-11-14 05:16 that sounds right 2010-11-14 05:22 are there any low hanging fruits to reduce memory usage? 2010-11-14 05:23 /join #27c3 2010-11-14 05:23 oops 2010-11-14 05:23 sorry 2010-11-14 05:26 wolfspraul: disable syslogd and klogd 2010-11-14 05:26 can be done in /etc/init.d/boot 2010-11-14 05:26 they are invoked from there 2010-11-14 05:30 [commit] kyak: added HISTFILE env variable in /etc/profile http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b07cc5d 2010-11-14 05:32 xiangfu: btw, i'm fighting with strdict -\ it hangs at start 2010-11-14 05:33 with strace i see that one of the threads is segfaulted 2010-11-14 05:33 i believe i might be because i have a somewhat minimal installation in comparison to you.. maybe stardict lacks for some library at start (though it builds fine) 2010-11-14 05:34 maybe you have some idea? 2010-11-14 05:35 xiangfu: are you aware of any downside of disabling syslogd and klogd? 2010-11-14 05:35 kyak: looking through the process list I also noticed a lot of 'loggers', if you think those 2 can be disabled then yeah, unless someone complains let's do it 2010-11-14 05:37 wolfspraul: I don't know that. 2010-11-14 05:37 kyak: does the "loading " windows show up?? 2010-11-14 05:39 xiangfu: yeah, it hangs right ther 2010-11-14 05:39 at "Loading" 2010-11-14 05:42 xiangfu: if you don't know, then I'd say let's remove them. even if there is a good reason, we will surely find it after removal :-) 2010-11-14 05:43 wolfspraul: ok. :) 2010-11-14 05:44 [commit] kyak: Disable syslogd and klogd http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/dcc7d75 2010-11-14 05:44 kyak: let me thinking, I think I will reply you later.Â Â sorry. 2010-11-14 05:44 kyak: oh. you fast 2010-11-14 05:44 i had this change prepared for a long time ;) 2010-11-14 05:44 in fact, this is one the changes i always do before i build 2010-11-14 05:45 xiangfu: sure, take your time 2010-11-14 05:55 [commit] kyak: don't need ldd() function if actual ldd is installed http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/c7d6c10 2010-11-14 05:56 kyak: hi. I make the "ash" works in gmenu2x. 2010-11-14 05:56 but maybe it's not very good. because I goot one message like: "can't access tty; job control truned off" 2010-11-14 05:57 what's your wrapper script look like? 2010-11-14 05:57 title=ash 2010-11-14 05:57 exec=/usr/sbin/setfont2 2010-11-14 05:57 params=/usr/share/setfont2/un-fuzzy-6x10-font.pnm && /bin/ash 2010-11-14 05:57 ^ 2010-11-14 05:57 kyak: ^ 2010-11-14 05:58 this is a hack :) 2010-11-14 05:58 you are actually injecting another command in gmenu2x params :) 2010-11-14 05:58 I don't know why this script not reading the /etc/profile 2010-11-14 05:58 xiangfu: you could try creating a wrapper script, and call this instead? 2010-11-14 05:59 kyak: ok. let me try. 2010-11-14 05:59 in this case i think this tty warning should disappear 2010-11-14 06:03 kyak: very thanks. 2010-11-14 06:04 xiangfu: np.. i think i will create similar gmenu2x item for ash-cyrillic (will be provided by ben-cyrillic) 2010-11-14 06:07 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: add [ash] and fix the [bash] entry in gmenu2x http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b157df2 2010-11-14 06:21 wolfspraul: another thing to free a little memory - disable unused ttys in /etc/inittab 2010-11-14 06:21 i think tty3 and tty3 are not needed.. maybe tts is also not needed 2010-11-14 06:22 *tty3/4 2010-11-14 06:22 wolfspraul: (loggers) i would consider data on such a device as ephemeral anyway, particularly considering that people often upgrade their system by wiping out entire partitions 2010-11-14 06:22 wpwrak: those are not logging to file anyway 2010-11-14 06:23 they log somewhere in the memory, can be accessed with "logread" 2010-11-14 06:23 totally useless 2010-11-14 06:23 wolfspraul: so there's little point in filling them with log data. sometimes, it can be useful to be able to enable temporary logging, though. e.g., to debug ssh problems. of course, the way dropbear fails usually means that you'll only find out with strace anyway ... :) 2010-11-14 06:24 kyak: (log to memory) ah, that's actually a bit more reasonable. but probably still not worth the effort. 2010-11-14 06:25 yeah.. 2010-11-14 06:25 xiangfu: what do you think about adding tcl to full_system? 2010-11-14 06:27 kyak: how can we remove tty3/4/s? 2010-11-14 06:27 wolfspraul: just comment those line in /etc/inittab 2010-11-14 06:27 *lines 2010-11-14 06:28 kyak: except for tcl, are there any other things you have enabled that are not in full_system? 2010-11-14 06:29 wolfspraul: i don't think so... 2010-11-14 06:30 hmm has tk been ported? 2010-11-14 06:30 haven't seen it there 2010-11-14 06:35 wolfspraul: have abook enabled which is also not in full_system 2010-11-14 06:36 (and MPlayer, but this one is build patented) 2010-11-14 06:39 why do you want to remove the other virtual terminals? 2010-11-14 06:41 to save memory; they are not used most of the time 2010-11-14 06:41 but then you can't do any multi-tasking anymore 2010-11-14 06:42 i don't think this is a good idea 2010-11-14 06:42 and it doesn't really save much memory anyway 2010-11-14 06:42 do you mean "you can't do three-tasking"? :) 2010-11-14 06:42 use screen for that 2010-11-14 06:42 screen uses alot more memory than some terminals 2010-11-14 06:43 and is very slow on such machines 2010-11-14 06:43 there are alternatives 2010-11-14 06:43 tmux, for example 2010-11-14 06:43 can you tell me about the use case? 2010-11-14 06:43 how do you use those terminals on Ben? 2010-11-14 06:44 everytime you want to run multiple applications at the same time 2010-11-14 06:44 just give an exmaple 2010-11-14 06:44 listening to music in the background and editing some files at the same time for example 2010-11-14 06:44 kyak: wejp btw, along the lines of screen, we now have this quite interesting byobu on the NanoNote 2010-11-14 06:45 https://launchpad.net/byobu 2010-11-14 06:45 but it's a screen enhancement, so if screen is slow or needs a lot of memory, this will need even more... anyway some of what they say sounds promising, I think 2010-11-14 06:45 something totally unrelated: every time I start the nn, especially whilst not at home, I feel kind of.. good, booting linux on an embedded device 2010-11-14 06:45 it's just a great feeling 2010-11-14 06:45 it feels like you're holding a lot of power in your hands 2010-11-14 06:45 byobu... interesting 2010-11-14 06:45 wejp: it's not a problem, cause gmu is not occupying the terminal 2010-11-14 06:45 wolfspraul: afaik byobu is mostly a set of config files for screen? 2010-11-14 06:45 wejp: besides, i don't say to get rid of all terminals 2010-11-14 06:45 then edit two files, or have one open for reference while editing the other 2010-11-14 06:46 bartbes: could be yes, I never got far beyond readon their project homepage. but it sounds cool :-) 2010-11-14 06:47 wejp: well, my case might be special, i'm living happily without tty3 and tty4. i even use tty2 very rarely 2010-11-14 06:48 yeah, i guess, but since there are other usecases as well, i think those terminals should just be kept as they are now 2010-11-14 06:48 it really does not save much memory 2010-11-14 06:48 a few KB at most 2010-11-14 06:48 so seeing as I just realized owrt has mutt, has anyone set it up in a particularly epic fashion? I can't imagine it being easy to use considering you normally lack internet, and it lacking a small pop and/or smtp server (afaik), so what is mutt used for? 2010-11-14 06:49 oh I seem to be asking random questions, do tell if I get annoying 2010-11-14 06:49 wejp: not a few KB. each terminal is running init, it is 1620 KB 2010-11-14 06:49 kyak, no it isn't 2010-11-14 06:49 it makes 1620*3 useless KB for me 2010-11-14 06:49 wejp: run top 2010-11-14 06:49 these 1620 KB is shared memory and it is only used ONCE by all applications that are part of busybox 2010-11-14 06:50 wow, go busybox! 2010-11-14 06:50 yep 2010-11-14 06:50 that's why openwrt uses busybox 2010-11-14 06:50 to use as little memory as possible 2010-11-14 06:50 bartbes: I should try mutt one day, I use it on my notebook. I would think I can use it first of all as a reader of my mail archives. for writing, I would need to think about the workflow, although I'm sure it's possible. 2010-11-14 06:50 wejp: hm ok 2010-11-14 06:50 that's why they all use the same amount of memory 2010-11-14 06:51 wejp: how can i see RSS? 2010-11-14 06:51 wolfspraul: I guess it just needs to have a queue and a script which then mails it all (using sendmail?), if you then hook it up to udev it can all get very coolk 2010-11-14 06:51 *-k 2010-11-14 06:51 bartbes: same as openvpn 2010-11-14 06:51 i always wondered whe is it in full_system 2010-11-14 06:52 mh, i think that depends on the top or ps version being used 2010-11-14 06:52 wolfspraul: atm however I get an error when I want to send (even though I'm connected to the internet), my guess is a lack of sendmail (or alternative, like exim) 2010-11-14 06:52 bartbes: which smtp clients are in openwrt and which one should we include in the image? 2010-11-14 06:53 I'll go research 2010-11-14 06:53 can't mutt speak smtp as well? 2010-11-14 06:53 bassel: have a look at msmtp 2010-11-14 06:53 I believe it normally uses sendmail 2010-11-14 06:53 bartbes: have a look at msmtp 2010-11-14 06:53 (or compatible alternative) 2010-11-14 06:53 bassel: sorry :) 2010-11-14 06:53 I use mutt to do some mass emailing once in a while. but never looked deeper into what mutt actually does to get it out. 2010-11-14 06:53 kyak: I'll go check out mutt manual then decide what it needs 2010-11-14 06:54 you can use whatever MTA you want with mutt 2010-11-14 06:54 wolfspraul: but I guess you *can* set it up to use smtp, since I think I do that on my desktop.. 2010-11-14 06:54 and mutt itself is not aware of smtp 2010-11-14 06:54 yeah, I guess it's all a matter of how it's set up 2010-11-14 06:54 it needs MTA for that 2010-11-14 06:55 kyak: well, I just checked my muttrc and I directly use smtp 2010-11-14 06:55 (with ubuntu package) 2010-11-14 06:55 can you show it? 2010-11-14 06:55 just smtp_url 2010-11-14 06:55 I'll go read the docs 2010-11-14 06:56 "Update: Recent versions (1.5.x) of Mutt has built-in SMTP support." 2010-11-14 06:56 i'm so out of date :) 2010-11-14 06:57 and on the nn I have 1.5.20 2010-11-14 06:57 so that should work 2010-11-14 06:57 anyway, a sendmail equivalent may be easier, since it requires no setup, and has queueing, I guess 2010-11-14 06:58 interesting 2010-11-14 06:58 you can use ssh to execute sendmail on a remote system 2010-11-14 07:02 btw, what packages are built automatically? 2010-11-14 07:02 (and as such added to the repos) 2010-11-14 07:05 wolfspraul: what's the successor of the ya in the ben-ya-... naming scheme again ? 2010-11-14 07:06 ben-ya-mu-guo 2010-11-14 07:06 bartbes: what do you mean? 2010-11-14 07:06 thanks ! 2010-11-14 07:06 first we have config.full_system 2010-11-14 07:07 that's like an 'all-inclusive' of apps that work well on the NanoNote. as long as they don't increase boot time, or memory usage, at the moment we are just adding anything there that someone finds useful. 2010-11-14 07:08 then we _should_ also build all packages (as separately installable .ipk files), but we haven't done so since April 2010-11-14 07:08 at least we have a buildhost machine now, so give it another month or two and this should work as well 2010-11-14 07:08 kyak: I guess mutt was built without smtp 2010-11-14 07:09 bartbes: if you have suggestions on what to add, please just list them here and we'll do it. or of course you can edit/commit to config.full_system yourself 2010-11-14 07:09 did this answer your question? 2010-11-14 07:09 yeah, and then some :P 2010-11-14 07:10 bartbes: for one, I would love to have great love support on the NN :-) and lots of preinstalled love games... 2010-11-14 07:10 so if you have pointers, please holler 2010-11-14 07:11 I saw nlove is already in the latest image, not sure how functional it is right now, or whether there are any games in the image as well. 2010-11-14 07:11 we'll get there... 2010-11-14 07:12 no games yet 2010-11-14 07:12 (in the image) 2010-11-14 07:12 anyway, I just sent the first mail via mutt + msmtp 2010-11-14 07:13 now let's see if I receive it 2010-11-14 07:13 and then see what happens when I unplug the nn 2010-11-14 07:15 humm, the message was received on the smtp server, but then timed out when trying to forward to gmail smtp servers 2010-11-14 07:15 :( 2010-11-14 07:15 but hey, at least it works thus far 2010-11-14 07:16 alright, so that works 2010-11-14 07:17 and msmtp errors.. 2010-11-14 07:17 you want to say the NanoNote is already more reliable for email than gmail? 2010-11-14 07:17 :-) 2010-11-14 07:18 but it sounds like we should include msmtp 2010-11-14 07:19 once I figure out how I can get it to queue it'll be fully working 2010-11-14 07:19 and even if that isn't the case, that + a default muttrc makes for a working mutt 2010-11-14 07:25 I see, there's a msmtpq script, which I guess needs to be included in the package 2010-11-14 07:30 kyak: about tcl, it's ok to me. just add it to config.full_system (since it's not auto start when boot :) 2010-11-14 07:35 when I am in gmenu2x, is there a way to close it (exit the process)? 2010-11-14 07:35 I think there was.. 2010-11-14 07:36 I can't find it though 2010-11-14 07:36 short of 'kill `pidof gmenu2x`' which is what I do normally 2010-11-14 07:36 I guess you could create a 'close' launcher 2010-11-14 07:36 no killall ? 2010-11-14 07:37 bartbes: + to launch, - to kill :) 2010-11-14 07:37 wpwrak: good idea, forgot 2010-11-14 07:37 killall is there... 2010-11-14 07:37 wpwrak: ? 2010-11-14 07:38 a 'close' launcher is a nice idea, the only problem is with someone who accidentally closes it and then doesn't know how to return 2010-11-14 07:40 I just add a "ash" and "bash" in gmenu2x. 2010-11-14 07:40 which one is the best/recommended shell? 2010-11-14 07:40 so if we want goto terminal we can use 'ash' 2010-11-14 07:40 then "CTRL + D" or "exit" will return to gmenu2x 2010-11-14 07:40 maybe if we have two icons it adds more confusion than necessary, unless there are good reasons for both 2010-11-14 07:40 wolfspraul: ash 2010-11-14 07:41 then I would suggest to not include a 'bash' icon 2010-11-14 07:41 my idea was not so much running a shell (that's another nice idea, I usually do ctrl-alt-f1 right now, but more options is good), my idea was to close the gmenu2x process to save memory 2010-11-14 07:41 but one by one 2010-11-14 07:41 launching a shell from an icon is nice, I like it 2010-11-14 07:42 xiangfu: is that what you added? 2010-11-14 07:42 I just added a launcher which just add prints some text (a thank you for using and then how to start gmenu2x again) 2010-11-14 07:42 which has the wrapper disabled, so it closes gmenu2x with a quit message 2010-11-14 07:44 xiangfu: when I run nightsky I get several error messages about missing files, then a segmentation fault 2010-11-14 07:45 wolfspraul: yes, I have add two icon, "ash" and "bash", 2010-11-14 07:45 I think we rename the "ash" to "Terminal", 2010-11-14 07:45 xiangfu: why do we need two icons? when would someone choose bash over ash? 2010-11-14 07:47 wolfspraul: it's just one option for users. 2010-11-14 07:47 I made a vid of my launcher 2010-11-14 07:47 time to convert it to ogv 2010-11-14 07:47 if we don't add the 'bash' , then do you think we should remove it from full_system? 2010-11-14 07:48 wolfspraul: I will look into the nightsky later 2010-11-14 07:51 wolfspraul: http://bartbes.ath.cx/close_launcher.ogv 2010-11-14 07:53 bartbes: now we have add the "gmenu2x" to inittab. so when we clock the "Terminal" , it will exit the gmenu2x 2010-11-14 07:54 wait, what? 2010-11-14 07:54 bartbes: s/clock/click/ 2010-11-14 07:54 that close launcher actually just closes gmenu2x, it doesn't start a new shell 2010-11-14 07:55 :O 2010-11-14 07:55 bartbes: yes. 2010-11-14 07:55 I know why my build of msmtp failed 2010-11-14 07:56 my / partition is full 2010-11-14 07:56 :( 2010-11-14 07:57 xiangfu: I don't think those 2 things are related 2010-11-14 07:57 one question is whether we add an icon for 'bash' in the launcher 2010-11-14 07:57 the other question is whether we add bash into the image 2010-11-14 07:57 I'm sure there are good reasons why to add it to the image, at least it's easier to imagine those. 2010-11-14 07:58 for I'm not so sure about the value of having 2 icons in the launcher, both launching a shell 2010-11-14 07:58 I think we are doing a better service by picking the better one of the two only, at that place. 2010-11-14 07:58 wolfspraul: ok, now I understand. let's just remove hte 'bash' icon in gmenu2x. 2010-11-14 07:59 xiangfu: well, back to my question. what would be the reason that someone would choose bash over ash at that point (in the launcher)? 2010-11-14 07:59 I understand if a script needs bash-specific features, OK it refers to bash and bash needs to be there to run the script 2010-11-14 08:00 but for the 'manual' shell, I think we should pick what we believe is the most appropriate on the NanoNote, and only have an icon for that? 2010-11-14 08:00 how about fbterm? 2010-11-14 08:01 for an interactive shell, i guess you'd want the "nicest". not sure how friendly ash is as an interactive shell. 2010-11-14 08:02 sure then let's do that. I'm just saying two icons, one for 'bash' and one for 'ash' is asking for trouble :-) 2010-11-14 08:02 I know it... 2010-11-14 08:03 next we have a third icon for zsh 2010-11-14 08:03 and so on 2010-11-14 08:03 fbterm makes more sense as a launcher in gmenu2x 2010-11-14 08:03 too much of a choice is a bad thing :) 2010-11-14 08:03 tcsh ! 2010-11-14 08:04 bartbes: I think the problem with fbterm is that the nice small NanoNote fonts don't work 2010-11-14 08:04 I just started fbterm manually and it's ugly :-) 2010-11-14 08:04 I would say it would be capable of going smaller 2010-11-14 08:04 I guess I'm used to those nice polished fonts now. 2010-11-14 08:05 oh, and we should have an easy way to cycle through console fonts as well 2010-11-14 08:05 there is some command line that does it, but man it's long... 2010-11-14 08:05 I am not thinking of the 'user experiment', I just think add one option to users. so I am not sure about this. 2010-11-14 08:05 you mean the fonts I think I don't have? 2010-11-14 08:05 so when is the first *stable* release going to be? 2010-11-14 08:05 maybe once we have this more general keymapper daemon (triggerhappy), we can have some nice key mappings to cycle through console fonts? 2010-11-14 08:05 because I'm still running 2010-06-15 2010-11-14 08:06 (with some updated packages) 2010-11-14 08:06 that's a good image, maybe we have a worthy successor soon... 2010-11-14 08:06 not sure about 'stable', we'll get there 2010-11-14 08:07 xiangfu: so basically you are saying 'ash' is the better shell for manual use, wpwrak says 'bash' 2010-11-14 08:07 I don't want to blow this discussion out of proportion, maybe add 2 icons for now, we can trim later :-) 2010-11-14 08:07 'ash' is the default shell in openwrt. and it's busybox. 2010-11-14 08:08 that's good, saves memory 2010-11-14 08:08 so my vote is: for now only 1 icon, for ash 2010-11-14 08:08 'bash' is separate. 2010-11-14 08:10 wolfspraul: my vote. add one section in gmenu2x. name "Terminal", we list "ash(default)" "bash" "fbterm" "jfbterm" "nanoterm" :) 2010-11-14 08:10 we add all terminal stuff in "Terminal" section. 2010-11-14 08:11 he 2010-11-14 08:11 FINE! :-) 2010-11-14 08:11 I like the (default) idea, if it's visible... 2010-11-14 08:11 that achieves 80% of what I had in mind... 2010-11-14 08:13 BTW, I already add "Games" section, list all games. 2010-11-14 08:13