2010-11-10 01:52 <nitin_gupta> hwo to mount sd card at power on ?
2010-11-10 01:53 <nitin_gupta> without user intervention ?
2010-11-10 01:57 <nitin_gupta> xiangfu can you plz tell me how to mount sd card at power on without user intervention ?
2010-11-10 02:03 <kyak> nitin_gupta: add the command to mount sd card in your /etc/init.d/start
2010-11-10 02:04 <kyak> this might be not cosher, but it'll work
2010-11-10 02:04 <nitin_gupta> ok
2010-11-10 06:56 <nitin_gupta> NN booting process gets stuck sometime while SD card is inserted . why ?
2010-11-10 06:57 <nitin_gupta> can it be reduced or avoid ?
2010-11-10 07:11 <drizzt> nitin_gupta: what system ?
2010-11-10 07:11 <drizzt> usualy sd card partition should be added to /etc/fstab
2010-11-10 07:12 <nitin_gupta> ok
2010-11-10 07:12 <nitin_gupta> so thats means we shall make an entry in /etc/fstab for sd card
2010-11-10 07:12 <drizzt> yes
2010-11-10 07:12 <nitin_gupta> but there is a problem .
2010-11-10 07:13 <drizzt> this is the usual way
2010-11-10 07:13 <drizzt> unless it is your rootfs
2010-11-10 07:13 <kyak> openwrt has it's one way of /etc/fstab handling
2010-11-10 07:13 <drizzt> then it's on the kernel command line
2010-11-10 07:13 <kyak> *own way
2010-11-10 07:13 <drizzt> hum
2010-11-10 07:13 <nitin_gupta> sd card has tow nodes files i.e mmcblk0p1 and mmblk1p1
2010-11-10 07:13 <nitin_gupta> hwo to take care of it
2010-11-10 07:13 <kyak> nitin_gupta: what's th eproblemm adding this to your start script?
2010-11-10 07:14 <drizzt> I'll need to do it for courses I give in two weeks (sd card in openwrt)
2010-11-10 07:14 <drizzt> hum, this is two different sd cards
2010-11-10 07:14 <nitin_gupta> you mean to say I shall mount the sd card in my application instead of /etc/fstab
2010-11-10 07:14 <drizzt> mmcblk0/1 <-- sdcard number 0 or 1
2010-11-10 07:15 <drizzt> p1 <-- partition number 1
2010-11-10 07:15 <drizzt> no
2010-11-10 07:15 <nitin_gupta> then ?
2010-11-10 07:15 <drizzt> not in the application,
2010-11-10 07:15 <kyak> nitin_gupta: i said already, /etc/init.d/start
2010-11-10 07:15 <drizzt> then you must try both, unless you now wich one id the one you want
2010-11-10 07:15 <nitin_gupta> ok
2010-11-10 07:16 <drizzt> you can find informations in /proc/partitions
2010-11-10 07:16 <drizzt> and in /sys/....
2010-11-10 07:16 <nitin_gupta> what about long booting process time ?
2010-11-10 07:16 <drizzt> I have to go
2010-11-10 07:16 <drizzt> try using "quiet" option on kernel command line
2010-11-10 07:17 <drizzt> or use a serial cable and an option like "console=ttyS0,115200n8" to get the boot messages
2010-11-10 07:17 <nitin_gupta> where ?
2010-11-10 07:18 <drizzt> ttyS0 to be adapted to the main name of the serial on your system
2010-11-10 07:18 <drizzt> on kernel command line
2010-11-10 07:18 <drizzt> so in the bootloader config
2010-11-10 07:18 <nitin_gupta> I am using ttyS0 for my application
2010-11-10 07:18 <drizzt> this is board dependant (the bootloader)
2010-11-10 07:18 <drizzt> the ttyS0 should be fine
2010-11-10 07:19 <drizzt> sorry, I really got to go
2010-11-10 07:19 <drizzt> ++++
2010-11-10 07:19 <nitin_gupta> ok
2010-11-10 07:19 <nitin_gupta>  see u 2 morrow
2010-11-10 07:32 <qi-bot> [commit] kyak: abook: now suitable for Ben term size http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f995e57
2010-11-10 07:33 <kyak> xiangfu: i ended up shrinking abook interface to fit to Ben display :) 4x8 font is just not readable if you use it long enough
2010-11-10 07:35 <xiangfu> kyak: great patch 001-term-size.patch.
2010-11-10 07:36 <kyak> there might be something left that can't fit into screen.. hope we will stumble upon it while using abook
2010-11-10 07:43 <kyak> btw, if we want utf-8 support in abook (and other ncurses apps), we would need libncursesw, which is not backported to backfire yet
2010-11-10 07:58 <rafa> wpwrak: interesting.. between packages there is an om-maps-berlin..ipk  but then .. I also saw an om-maps-buenos-aires..ipk  ;-))
2010-11-10 08:03 <wpwrak> yeah. and i never actually tried it. shame on me !
2010-11-10 08:04 <rafa> wpwrak: I just realized that .. so I never tried either
2010-11-10 08:04 <rafa> ah.. hong kong as well
2010-11-10 08:04 <rafa> london, paris, new york
2010-11-10 08:22 <xiangfu> kyak: maybe we can backport to openwrt-package.git,
2010-11-10 08:34 <kyak> xiangfu: good idea, wouldn't it cause conflicts with ncurses from packages/ ?
2010-11-10 08:35 <xiangfu> kyak: not sure, need test
2010-11-10 08:44 <kyak> i'm wondering how it'll work.. but this is definitely worth it.. also taking into account that though libncursesw is ported to the latest openwrt, it still doesn't work ;)
2010-11-10 08:45 <kyak> (well at least wide-char libncursesw "Hello world" didn't work for me)
2010-11-10 08:45 <kyak> so if have it in our packages, we can try and figure that out
2010-11-10 08:46 <kyak> i noticed that libncurses even from the latest openwrt is lacking a lot of patches
2010-11-10 08:55 <kyak> heh, it just appears twice in menuconfig
2010-11-10 08:58 <xiangfu> kyak: oh. you fast. I am reply Mirko's email.  about next openwrt release.
2010-11-10 09:00 <kyak> xiangfu: though it appears twice in menuconfig, the one from openwrt-packages is being built
2010-11-10 09:01 <kyak> i guess it means we can safely have our own cool version of ncurses :)
2010-11-10 09:03 <kyak> this means, build the wide-char ncurses only, cause it's binary compartible with one-byte ncurses
2010-11-10 09:04 <xiangfu> kyak: great.
2010-11-10 09:06 <kristianpaul> B_Lizzard: hey
2010-11-10 09:06 <B_Lizzard> Hey
2010-11-10 09:06 <kristianpaul> i noticed in my Ben that suspend on ram
2010-11-10 09:06 <kristianpaul> is not resuming after some hours
2010-11-10 09:07 <kristianpaul> the Ben just was power off
2010-11-10 09:07 <zear> maybe the battery runs out?
2010-11-10 09:07 <kristianpaul> nope
2010-11-10 09:07 <kristianpaul> i tought first
2010-11-10 09:07 <kristianpaul> but then turn it on
2010-11-10 09:07 <kristianpaul> and i was 68%
2010-11-10 09:07 <kristianpaul> s/i/it
2010-11-10 09:08 <zear> maybe the battery is loose
2010-11-10 09:08 <zear> try to shake your nn
2010-11-10 09:08 <kristianpaul> idid
2010-11-10 09:08 <kristianpaul> did witht the ben turned on
2010-11-10 09:08 <kristianpaul> and it dint poweroff
2010-11-10 09:08 <zear> i see
2010-11-10 09:08 <kristianpaul> apartently bat is good, but still some test to do
2010-11-10 09:09 <kristianpaul> i'm just saying what happen to me in, just in case some body else happened or even dind tried
2010-11-10 09:09 <kristianpaul> dint*
2010-11-10 09:11 <kristianpaul> btw i tried this suspend then let it there for few hours three times so far
2010-11-10 09:14 <B_Lizzard> Happens to me too
2010-11-10 09:14 <B_Lizzard> Probably a kernel problem, ask larsc
2010-11-10 09:21 <kristianpaul> larsc: hello
2010-11-10 09:21 <kristianpaul> There is a way of debug linux kernel in the Ben, using ie the serial console
2010-11-10 09:21 <kristianpaul> so i can save debug signals before the devices just power off...
2010-11-10 09:21 <kristianpaul> :-|
2010-11-10 09:30 <larsc> what do you want do debug?
2010-11-10 09:38 <B_Lizzard> The Nanonote shuts down after some time left in suspend
2010-11-10 09:38 <B_Lizzard> Probably crashes
2010-11-10 09:38 <B_Lizzard> 2 - 3 hours
2010-11-10 09:40 <B_Lizzard> So if you do "echo mem > /sys/power/state" and leave the nanonote alone for some time it shuts down
2010-11-10 09:47 <larsc> as a software guy i would say it is a hardware problem ;)
2010-11-10 09:50 <rafa> larsc: :).. now you need to wait the answers from hardware guys
2010-11-10 10:23 <wpwrak> mirko: hmm, "new" image with Linux-2.6.32.16 ? :-(
2010-11-10 10:23 <wpwrak> rafa: which kernel version does jlime use ?
2010-11-10 10:24 <rafa> wpwrak: current beta versions built use 2.6.34.. version that you can built completely from OE (we some jlime devs already pushed stuff) uses 2.6.36 latest (with lars patches)
2010-11-10 10:25 <rafa> we some jlime devs= because some jlime devs
2010-11-10 10:26 <wpwrak> rafa: ah, so your upstream is more recent than your project's head. intersting ;-)
2010-11-10 10:27 <wpwrak> so one of those days i'll have to make my own 2.6.36 then ... see if MMC bind after unbind still hangs (like it does in 2.6.32.16)
2010-11-10 10:27 <rafa> cool no? :) .. but well, B_Lizzard and kristoffer are working to push the good ideas from beta and new ideas. And because lars did a big effort to put a lot of kernel stuff in 2.6.36 mainline why no to use it ? :)
2010-11-10 10:28 <wpwrak> oh, i'm all for tracking mainline closely :-)
2010-11-10 10:28 <rafa> wpwrak: working to push the good ideas from beta=  working to push the good ideas from beta on OE mainline
2010-11-10 10:29 <mirko> wpwrak: what's the feature of 2.6.3X you miss?
2010-11-10 10:31 <wpwrak> mirko: dunno. i've noticed what looks like a bug but i don't know (yet) whether 2.6.36 is better or not
2010-11-10 10:31 <wpwrak> mirko: the bug is that, if i remove any uSD item, then  echo jz4740-mmc.0 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/jz4740-mmc/unbind
2010-11-10 10:31 <wpwrak> mirko: echo jz4740-mmc.0 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/jz4740-mmc/bind
2010-11-10 10:31 <wpwrak> the 2nd "echo" hangs
2010-11-10 10:32 <larsc> wpwrak: just tested it and it works fine on 2.6.37-rc1
2010-11-10 10:32 <wpwrak> (with 2.6.32.16 (i think) per "official" september build)
2010-11-10 10:32 <wpwrak> larsc: ah, great, thanks !
2010-11-10 10:32 <wpwrak> time up upgrade those kernels then :)
2010-11-10 10:34 <wpwrak> (background: i've written a little library that should bring a bit more sanity into bit-banging - without introducing latency. one of the things it should do is guarantee that the mmc driver is moved out of the way. for this it used the unbind/bind.)
2010-11-10 10:34 <wpwrak> useS even
2010-11-10 10:35 <mirko> larsc: can we backport this fix?
2010-11-10 10:37 <larsc> well, there is no specific fix
2010-11-10 10:37 <larsc> you can backport the whole mmc driver
2010-11-10 10:37 <larsc> and see if it works
2010-11-10 11:05 <wpwrak> btw, has anyone on 2.6.32.x tried the unbind/bind, to check that it's indeed a kernel issue and not something weird i have locally ?
2010-11-10 11:16 <xiangfu> wpwrak: http://pastebin.ca/1987330 , tried several times, only once it's hang, but system not hang I can till open another ssh, and kill that thread.
2010-11-10 11:17 <xiangfu> wpwrak: by the way, what  is it use for??
2010-11-10 11:18 <xiangfu> time for sleep. see you tomorrow.
2010-11-10 11:18 <wpwrak> xiangfu: thanks ! yes, the system is still okay
2010-11-10 11:19 <wpwrak> xiangfu: what it does is that it tells the MMC driver in the kernel to release the MMC port (unbind)
2010-11-10 11:19 <wpwrak> xiangfu: or to re-acquire it (bind). this is necessary when using the uSD interface for bit-banging
2010-11-10 14:21 <qi-bot> [commit] Juan64Bits: Updating prototype of SIE code generator. http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/9d57891
2010-11-10 14:25 <Ornotermes> by the way, there is free (as in beer) hardware to get(if you live in europe, middle east or africa): http://www.ebv.com/en/products/stm32-design-contest.html
2010-11-10 14:26 <Ornotermes> it's just a shame ST-Link don't work with linux
2010-11-10 15:39 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: admit it, you just want the bike ;-)
2010-11-10 15:44 <kristianpaul> ah ubind dint work with jliem kernel..
2010-11-10 15:45 <kristianpaul> thast why last night.. hmm
2010-11-10 15:46 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: you mean this ? echo jz4740-mmc.0 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/jz4740-mmc/unbind
2010-11-10 15:46 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: or some other unbind ?
2010-11-10 15:46 <kristianpaul> thats yes
2010-11-10 15:47 <kristianpaul> welll not sureif that command exactly
2010-11-10 15:47 <wpwrak> hm, that ought to work
2010-11-10 15:47 <kristianpaul> i'll try again tnoight
2010-11-10 15:47 <wpwrak> i've never had unbind fail on me. the only thing that can go wrong is that you're trying to unbind after you've already unbound
2010-11-10 15:47 <kristianpaul> hmm
2010-11-10 15:48 <wpwrak> the kernel is nice enough to tell you, but none of the "echo" in openwrt feel this is information the user should be bothered with
2010-11-10 15:48 <kristianpaul> sure let me try again
2010-11-10 15:48 <wpwrak> not sure about jlime
2010-11-10 15:49 <wpwrak> (the echo problem is one of the subtle annoyances you get for using those "diet" environments, busybox et al. they often suppressed uncommon error paths, which can cause unexpected behaviour in advanced use)
2010-11-10 15:51 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: atleast i would have some use for a bike :P
2010-11-10 15:51 <wpwrak> (i don't know how much time i've wasted at openmoko with just this sort of problems. thus my dislike for busybox, dropbear, etc.)
2010-11-10 15:52 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: bah, for whose 2-3 days of sunny weather you get per year ;-)
2010-11-10 15:54 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: still better than a gas gusseling motor bike or half an apple computer :P
2010-11-10 15:54 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: though i have to admit that northern europe is impressive in summer. once been to oslo for a conference just in mid-summer. the city was full of convertibles and people greedily enjoying the few sunrays that graced it :)
2010-11-10 15:55 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: oh, i thought, with "bike", you meant the harley :)
2010-11-10 15:55 <Ornotermes> nah :P
2010-11-10 15:55 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: the apple bite indeed is an insult, i agree
2010-11-10 15:56 <Ornotermes> yeah, epecially since there is no stm32 ide for mac (as far as i know)
2010-11-10 15:58 <wpwrak> bah, the hip macs are for eloi ! what use would they have for morlock tools like an IDE ?
2010-11-10 15:59 <Ornotermes> eloi?
2010-11-10 15:59 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: H. G. Wells, "The Time Machine" ?
2010-11-10 16:00 <Ornotermes> never read
2010-11-10 16:00 <wpwrak> wolfgang: perhaps some idea for a t-shirt ? front side: <some fancy apple gadget> = Eloi, <something gritty from the qi-hw-universe>=Morlock. back side: dinner is served.
2010-11-10 16:02 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: shame on you. one of he GREAT classics. also available as movies. the old one is much better than the ~2000 version.
2010-11-10 16:03 <Ornotermes> yeah, i'm a lousy geek :P
2010-11-10 16:03 <wpwrak> old = 1960, new = 2002, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Machine
2010-11-10 16:04 <wpwrak> ther'es a lso a 1978 tv film, but i don't think i know that one
2010-11-10 16:08 <Ornotermes> actually i prefer movier rather than books, aleast they allow some multi tasking
2010-11-10 16:12 <wpwrak> you can drink beer while reading ...
2010-11-10 16:13 <Ornotermes> i don't drink bear at all :P
2010-11-10 16:14 <wpwrak> ah right, in sweden it would be vodka
2010-11-10 16:14 <Ornotermes> but if i would i could watch a movie, hack someting and drink a beer at the same time :P
2010-11-10 16:55 <wpwrak> GRRRR. the RF frontend I'm using with my USRP is only half-duplex, not full-duplex, as the documentation suggests. no surprise i only got weird results, no matter what i tried. naturally, all failure is silent ... :-(
2010-11-10 16:57 <wpwrak> (well, "documentation" may be a stretch. it's rather bits and pieces collected from all over the intertubes ... finally found the last bit in the mailing list archives)
2010-11-10 21:00 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: http://makeyourbot.org/mantis9-1
2010-11-10 21:02 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: cute :) now, what happens if humidity changes ? ;-)
2010-11-10 21:03 <wpwrak> grmbl. crashy xchat
2010-11-10 21:03 <rafa> the safe version of jlime for qi/resellers does not have libmad .. and libsdl-mixer needs libmad.. :( .. so the most of sdl games will not work on that jlime version :(
2010-11-10 21:03 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: cute :) now, what happens if humidity changes ? ;-)
2010-11-10 21:04 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: well hope i dint changes :p
2010-11-10 21:04 <wpwrak> ah, the message made it :)
2010-11-10 21:04 <kristianpaul> rafa: WHAT?
2010-11-10 21:04 <rafa> kristianpaul: that.. what you read
2010-11-10 21:05 <wpwrak> "MPEG audio decoder library"
2010-11-10 21:05 <kristianpaul> damn patents..
2010-11-10 21:06 <wpwrak> rafa: does libsdl-mixer always use libmad ? or would it be possible to just replace the calls to libmad with abort() and still get something useful ?
2010-11-10 21:06 <rafa> kristianpaul: yeah :( .. but well, libsdl-mixer manages different formats.. one of them mp3 surely. WIthout libmad, libsdl-mixer is not installable.. so most of games will not work
2010-11-10 21:06 <kristianpaul> cause they use mp3?
2010-11-10 21:06 <rafa> wpwrak: we could avoid libmad into libsdl-mixer.. no all the games uses mp3
2010-11-10 21:06 <kristianpaul> just that?
2010-11-10 21:07 <kristianpaul> i meant is sound
2010-11-10 21:07 <rafa> wpwrak: libsdl-mixer manages different kind of sound formats
2010-11-10 21:07 <wpwrak> rafa: ah, zear mentioned that they're all quite mp3-happy
2010-11-10 21:08 <rafa> wpwrak: and many games do not use mp3.. so we could build libsdl-mixer without libmad support
2010-11-10 21:08 <wpwrak> rafa: maybe step 1: no sound. step 2: convert the mp3s to ogg ?
2010-11-10 21:08 <rafa> wpwrak: but well, I am not going to do this kind of stuff.. it is a little mess..
2010-11-10 21:08 <kristianpaul> ok so be nanonote =  no targered for current games
2010-11-10 21:08 <wpwrak> rafa: or is there more involved than just conversion ?
2010-11-10 21:08 <rafa> wpwrak: I will put the stuff like it is.
2010-11-10 21:08 <wpwrak> rafa: okay, good enough for step 0 ;)
2010-11-10 21:08 <kristianpaul> well i like my dict and gmu :-)
2010-11-10 21:09 <rafa> wpwrak: I mean.. I do not know games using mp3.. surely there are many.. but no into OE. When zear talk about those.. he talks about DINGOO WORLD
2010-11-10 21:10 <wpwrak> rogue doesn't need mp3. the rest are inferior imitations or irrelevant  anyway ;-)
2010-11-10 21:10 <rafa> wpwrak: which is a COMPLETELY parallel linux-pirate world.. living at the same time that linux
2010-11-10 21:10 <wpwrak> ah ! ;-))
2010-11-10 21:10 <rafa> wpwrak: but most of games zear talks are not in any linux distribution
2010-11-10 21:10 <kristianpaul> whos saids pirate here??
2010-11-10 21:10 <kristianpaul> hides
2010-11-10 21:10 <rafa> they live into dingoo and similar pirate worlds
2010-11-10 21:11 <rafa> kristianpaul: I SAID
2010-11-10 21:11 <wpwrak> rafa: ah, i see. he had me scared for a bit with all the warez he wrote about
2010-11-10 21:11 <kristianpaul> said share instead
2010-11-10 21:11 <kristianpaul> :)
2010-11-10 21:11 <kristianpaul> say*
2010-11-10 21:11 <kristianpaul> any way..
2010-11-10 21:12 <rafa> wpwrak: they have fantastic games.. they share their codes between them.. most of them also do not know what "open source" or "free software" mean..
2010-11-10 21:12 <rafa> wpwrak: but well, into their worlds they share their codes.. that is nice at least
2010-11-10 21:12 <wolfspraul> rafa: sorry you lost me. So what is your idea for libmad & libsdl-mixer?
2010-11-10 21:12 <kristianpaul> btw any one can recomend a good lecture about logic analizers?
2010-11-10 21:13 <wolfspraul> can mp3 be configured out of libmad? or the libmad dependency be configured out of libsdl-mixer?
2010-11-10 21:13 <wolfspraul> or both will be left out?
2010-11-10 21:13 <rafa> wolfspraul: I will not do anything yet.. People trying to install games in jlime safe version will realize that libsdl-mixer will not install because libmad is missing.. just that so far.
2010-11-10 21:13 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: hmm, libmad is "MPEG audio decoder library" :)
2010-11-10 21:13 <rafa> missed*
2010-11-10 21:13 <wolfspraul> yes sure I know
2010-11-10 21:14 <wolfspraul> libmad is the #1 thing Sisvel is looking for on Linux
2010-11-10 21:14 <rafa> wolfspraul: so libmad is not part of jlime repo on qi/resellers repo
2010-11-10 21:14 <wolfspraul> and they enjoy the many dependencies to it... :-)
2010-11-10 21:14 <wolfspraul> rafa: can you create a list of packages that depends on libmad?
2010-11-10 21:15 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: so "configure mp3 out of libmad" doesn't sound like much of a choice. well, perhaps you could make a libmad-fake that does an open(`basename $1 .mp3`.ogg) :)
2010-11-10 21:15 <rafa> wolfspraul: yes, sure..
2010-11-10 21:15 <kristianpaul> okayy i got my answer http://www.funcubedongle.com/?p=155
2010-11-10 21:15 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: yes exactly. although even the presence of this package name will make Sisvel look harder...
2010-11-10 21:15 <kristianpaul> rafa: what about games with no sound? is that posible? (even i know is not confortable)
2010-11-10 21:16 <rafa> kristianpaul: games without sound will work surely.. because they will not need libsdl-mixer installed.
2010-11-10 21:16 <wolfspraul> we need to be careful with naming. 'jlime safe version' and 'jlime full version' sounds like asking for trouble to me.
2010-11-10 21:17 <wolfspraul> so the 'safe' version is broken beyond usability, and everybody will first thing switch to the 'full' version, and the documentation for how to do that will pop up faster than we can delete it.
2010-11-10 21:17 <wolfspraul> risky.
2010-11-10 21:17 <kristianpaul> nolime
2010-11-10 21:17 <wolfspraul> maybe we find out the 'safe' version is not so 'safe' after all.
2010-11-10 21:17 <kristianpaul> sadly :'(
2010-11-10 21:17 <rafa> wolfspraul: yes, but well. IF you have some advices about names I am happy to know.. dont have enouhg english skills to be careful with names for example
2010-11-10 21:17 <wolfspraul> theoretically it doesn't matter. I'm just thinking ahead a little.
2010-11-10 21:18 <wolfspraul> if the 'safe' version is only to 'safely' pass customs, sooner or later we will fail.
2010-11-10 21:18 <wolfspraul> it also depends on how we look at this and how we use it.
2010-11-10 21:18 <wolfspraul> we need to be honest with ourselves :-)
2010-11-10 21:18 <wpwrak> "jlime for qi-hardware" ?
2010-11-10 21:18 <wpwrak> "official jlime ben edition"
2010-11-10 21:18 <wpwrak> etc. :)
2010-11-10 21:18 <wolfspraul> sure, anything goes
2010-11-10 21:18 <kristianpaul> offcial?
2010-11-10 21:18 <kristianpaul> just dont use the lime i think
2010-11-10 21:18 <wpwrak> (officially endorsed by the makers of the ben)
2010-11-10 21:19 <wolfspraul> I'm just saying we need to be careful to not assume that nobody will leave it installed anyway.
2010-11-10 21:19 <kristianpaul> sure
2010-11-10 21:19 <wolfspraul> because the 'upgrade' instructions will pop up everywhere
2010-11-10 21:19 <kristianpaul> already !
2010-11-10 21:19 <kristianpaul> just go jli.... com
2010-11-10 21:19 <kristianpaul> :p
2010-11-10 21:19 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: if we do this right, people may not even care all that much
2010-11-10 21:20 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: e.g., also document how to recode mp3 to ogg
2010-11-10 21:20 <kristianpaul> hmm
2010-11-10 21:20 <wolfspraul> correct they shouldn't. the 'qi/ben' image must be really usable.
2010-11-10 21:21 <wpwrak> there's only a fraction of the ben owners who wants to use it as an mp3 player anyway
2010-11-10 21:21 <wolfspraul> rafa: configuring libmad out of libsdl-mixer is too hard?
2010-11-10 21:21 <kristianpaul> wpwrak:  only a fraction <- true
2010-11-10 21:22 <wpwrak> those who have mp3 via games don't really care about the format anyway. could be uuencoded high-res jpegs of 45 rpm discs ;-)
2010-11-10 21:22 <wpwrak> and also the number of people who really care all that much about games may not be all that huge
2010-11-10 21:23 <mth> are there games that use MP3? so far I've only seen WAV and Ogg being used
2010-11-10 21:23 <wpwrak> well, that's actually a question for the jlime folks: what's the "typical" user doing with their jlime-ben ?
2010-11-10 21:24 <kristianpaul> i wonder how many jlimes are running out thre..
2010-11-10 21:24 <kristianpaul> rafa: do you do stats about jliem donwloands?
2010-11-10 21:24 <kristianpaul> for example in beat4
2010-11-10 21:25 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: anyway ben is not a device for having bunch of sofware shiped i think
2010-11-10 21:25 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: he, I think the whole 2 gb should be loaded with valuable free software and content :-)
2010-11-10 21:25 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: not YET ! ;-))
2010-11-10 21:25 <wolfspraul> if someone doesn't like it they can still reflash, but why ship empty bits - makes no sense to me
2010-11-10 21:26 <rafa> wolfspraul: set libsdl-mixer without libmad: maybe it is not hard.. if "configure" has some option to avoid libmad/mp* then it would be really easy
2010-11-10 21:26 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: i hope that will change with jlime :)
2010-11-10 21:26 <rafa> wolfspraul: two lists:
2010-11-10 21:26 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: content is big :_9 for 2gb
2010-11-10 21:26 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (ship empty) faster production process :)
2010-11-10 21:26 <rafa> wolfspraul: http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/libmad_list  : these are the packages which need libmad.
2010-11-10 21:26 <rafa> wolfspraul: http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/nn/libsdl-mixer_list  : these are the packages which need libsdl-mixer
2010-11-10 21:26 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: jlime change <-  sure, seems go fast and realiable
2010-11-10 21:27 <rafa> kristianpaul: stats: no.. sorry. Maybe Kristoffer has those details.
2010-11-10 21:28 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: btw the "digital color dictionary" uses the suspend on ram feature?
2010-11-10 21:28 <kristianpaul> or some sort of suspend?
2010-11-10 21:28 <wolfspraul> rafa: great lists, thanks!
2010-11-10 21:29 <wolfspraul> it seems libsdl-mixer is the only one that will take even more dependencies with it
2010-11-10 21:29 <wolfspraul> the others can just be removed I guess
2010-11-10 21:30 <wolfspraul> toppler has a direct dependency to libmad
2010-11-10 21:31 <rafa> python-mad could be used a lot in different packages perhaps.. let me check which packages need python-mad
2010-11-10 21:32 <rafa> no.. just 3 packages need python-mad
2010-11-10 21:32 <rafa> but well, the name of one of them is python-pymp3
2010-11-10 21:32 <rafa> which is not part of the repo I think
2010-11-10 21:34 <rafa> wolfspraul: about names.. I uploaded some image files with "safe" as part of the name :( Sorry, I will change that
2010-11-10 21:36 <wpwrak> (dependencies) doesn't look too horrible. if you don't tell anyone, they probably won't even notice ;-) well, duke and perhaps freeciv
2010-11-10 21:36 <kristianpaul> donwloading FEL
2010-11-10 21:52 <rafa> wolfspraul: wpwrak : libsdl-mixer built okey without mp* support (without libmad).. "configure" has some options to disable that. What would you advise? libsdl-mixer is needed just for few games.. You prefer to remove libsdl-mixer and the few games or you prefer try me uploading this libsdl-mixer version without libmad support and check what all work? (I mean.. somebody should test those games some day.. I guee that any of them use mp* .. so they would wor
2010-11-10 21:53 <wolfspraul> rafa: well it depends on what is maintainable for you
2010-11-10 21:54 <wolfspraul> I can only compare with OpenWrt. OpenWrt thankfully introduced a PATENTED config option upstream. So we have a baseline. Now if we need to drive configuration into some package, we can do so in a relatively clean and maintainable way.
2010-11-10 21:54 <wolfspraul> for OE, maybe you need to document the steps to remove patented technology somewhere, so it doesn't 'slip in' easily later
2010-11-10 21:59 <rafa> wolfspraul: well, it would be great to have into OE some config option like openwrt has for PATENTED. But maybe OE has and I do not know. But well, that is another regard I would say. For the current repo I would upload this libsdl-mixer version without libmad. I would like to do my best .. but if it gets messy soon (I do not know how broken is the repo with all the removed packages).
2010-11-10 21:59 <rafa> wolfspraul: unfortunately I will not have a lot more free time so I will not be so available to maintain something. I would like
2010-11-10 22:00 <rafa> to help to upload the current jlime version without patent problems.. but then.. users should use it like "it is"
2010-11-10 22:00 <rafa> because if nobody is going to work on that (jlime devs will work just on the jlime full version)
2010-11-10 22:01 <rafa> it will not get fixes from time to time.
2010-11-10 22:02 <wolfspraul> rafa: he, yes ;-) I can imagine and that's why I think about maintainability right away.
2010-11-10 22:03 <rafa> wolfspraul: yes, maybe the current repo is not a good idea on qi/resellers servers then. users willl find problems, they will complain, nobody will help.
2010-11-10 22:04 <rafa> current repo=curren jlime repo without packages with patented technologies.
2010-11-10 22:04 <kristianpaul> so stay as we are?
2010-11-10 22:06 <rafa> kristianpaul: I would say.. I am seeing that a broken repo is not a nice thing. Current jlime repo at jlime.com has some missed stuff.. which users find easily.. Now.. for the jlime repo at qi we would be removing several packages.. or many.. which does it still worst.
2010-11-10 22:07 <rafa> kristianpaul: Of course.. there are a lot of nice stuff on jlime repo which works.. for example all the development packages.. the whole perl/python.. all the X stuff.. several WMs... etc..
2010-11-10 22:07 <rafa> kristianpaul: but still.
2010-11-10 22:08 <wpwrak> rafa: but most problems people run into would exist in "full" jlime too. do you think the other jlime developers would refuse to help also with such cases ?
2010-11-10 22:10 <wpwrak> all that would be needed is a way to push or pull updated packages from "full" jlime
2010-11-10 22:10 <rafa> wpwrak: I think that they would help of course. BUt no for the special cases here.. The current repo has 16000+ packages.. so you have a huge amount of software ready to use.. But also.. some of them, or many (after we remove packages for the repo at qi) will not work surely.
2010-11-10 22:11 <rafa> And jlime people just will advise to use the full version in such cases I guess.
2010-11-10 22:11 <wpwrak> well, if they don't work, that would be a problem in the OE metadata anyway.
2010-11-10 22:11 <wpwrak> if you can't even install them, that's another story, of course
2010-11-10 22:13 <rafa> wpwrak: yes, I am talking about packages which you can not install because we removed packages. users find that easily :)
2010-11-10 22:13 <wpwrak> but if a package can't be installed, it should be straightforward to identify the reason, too. after all, we know which packages had to be removed.
2010-11-10 22:13 <wpwrak> i guess one should just walk the dependency graph and remove all packages that have a dependency that can't be resolved
2010-11-10 22:16 <wpwrak> don't you already sort of have that, with your opkg accelerator ?
2010-11-10 22:17 <rafa> wpwrak: okey, I will try with that idea before we show something about jlime as option for resellers/qi. No promises though
2010-11-10 22:17 <wpwrak> kewl, thanks !
2010-11-10 22:18 <wpwrak> what was the workflow so far ? something like this ? 1) manually identify all the problem packages. 2) remove the problem packages. 3) identify a few dependencies as well (and maybe remove them) ?
2010-11-10 22:19 <wpwrak> if yes, that should be relatively easy to automate. say, have an exclusion file that says  no libmad*, etc,. then kick out everything that depends on any package matching libmad* in some way
2010-11-10 22:21 <wpwrak> well, instead of kicking out, perhaps better to take the package list, remove the problems, and then output a list of packages that can be safely copied. rsync could then pick up those packages.
2010-11-10 22:21 <wpwrak> add a notification mechanism for any new additions (as opposed to mere updates) and the whole mirror could run almost on auto-pilot :)
2010-11-10 22:24 <rafa> wpwrak: it was : 1) I identified the problmatic packages. Got a list of them. Then 2) I wrote a simple script which removes the package and removes its entry from Packages index.
2010-11-10 22:25 <wpwrak> great. so only 3) is missing :-)
2010-11-10 22:26 <wpwrak> one small step for rafa, one great leap for qi-hw ;-)
2010-11-10 22:27 <wolfspraul> rafa: you said you will have less free time. got a new job?
2010-11-10 22:32 <rafa> wolfspraul: I ran out of money a time ago.. I am okey though.. we are two in this family ;) And I also get a bit of money of my previos employer who still has a debt with me and he pays me some coins from time to time. So I tried to find a proper linux dev job here in Bue, without luck. So I am evaluating options (I have worked as linux/unix admin for example, which is not nice in big companies, but that is something which exists)
2010-11-10 22:36 <kristianpaul> damn "warning: macro `AM_PATH_GLIB_2_0' not found in library"
2010-11-10 22:37 <kristianpaul> i think i broke my autotools some way :-/
2010-11-10 22:37 <kristianpaul> i cant run a autogen and not get erros..
2010-11-10 22:37 <rafa> kristianpaul: but that is a warning.. which else you get as output?
2010-11-10 22:38 <wpwrak> sound like the kind of warning that is usually followed by a segfault within a few millisecond ;-)
2010-11-10 22:38 <wpwrak> soundS
2010-11-10 22:38 <kristianpaul> i tought i may broke it when tring rtems first time..
2010-11-10 22:39 <kristianpaul> i was not carefull with configure install got some gnu stuff
2010-11-10 22:39 <kristianpaul> rafa: http://paste.debian.net/99520/
2010-11-10 22:39 <kristianpaul> lets see what happen if i boostrap a clean system
2010-11-10 22:39 <wpwrak> well, actually, no. autojunk probably means something else with "library" than what i though
2010-11-10 22:41 <kristianpaul> and is not just this sofware, i think is evertyhing with an autogen script :/
2010-11-10 22:43 <kristianpaul> http://paste.debian.net/99523/ he, now..
2010-11-10 22:43 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: the monument we'll errect to honor the great slayer of autotools will be glorious :-)
2010-11-10 22:43 <kristianpaul> ha magically it works on my just installed and clean deboostraped debian
2010-11-10 22:44 <kristianpaul> is already purge auto* packages and installed again
2010-11-10 22:44 <wpwrak> bah. looser. no monument for you then.
2010-11-10 22:44 <kristianpaul> problem still there..
2010-11-10 22:44 <kristianpaul> no thanks
2010-11-10 22:45 <kristianpaul> finally i foudn chroot usefull
2010-11-10 22:45 <wpwrak> pity. imagine, in the middle of the great "Plaze del Libertador kristianpaul"
2010-11-10 22:46 <kristianpaul> jaja
2010-11-10 22:47 <kristianpaul> ironic freeing the sofware that was supposed to give you freedom..
2010-11-10 22:48 <wpwrak> well, there are often problem with the political implementation of social ideals ...
2010-11-10 22:48 <kristianpaul> ideed
2010-11-10 22:50 <kristianpaul> now my auto*trahs sucks..
2010-11-10 22:51 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: what's new ? ;-)
2010-11-10 22:51 <kristianpaul> make install fail :-S
2010-11-10 22:51 <kristianpaul> is not my day surelly
2010-11-10 22:51 <kristianpaul> now find wich library dint copy..
2010-11-10 22:52 <kristianpaul> WTF Making all in
2010-11-10 22:53 <kristianpaul> oops
2010-11-10 23:38 <nitin_gupta> anybody who can help me in developing a gui based application for NN