2010-11-04 05:05 <kyak> xiangfu: by switching to upstream backfire, we also switched back to uClibc-0.9.30.1, is it right?
2010-11-04 05:05 <xiangfu> kyak: yes
2010-11-04 05:07 <kyak> which means there are problems with Qt apps..
2010-11-04 05:14 <xiangfu> kyak: just when Qt Apps exit.
2010-11-04 05:15 <xiangfu> 0.9.32 make more app not working then 0.9.30 on Qt :)
2010-11-04 05:15 <xiangfu> recently I read the openwrt mail. the 0.9.30 is the only one well tested.
2010-11-04 05:15 <xiangfu> in openwrt
2010-11-04 07:28 <B_Lizzard> larsc, is there any way softvol can be implemented in the kernel driver?
2010-11-04 07:29 <B_Lizzard> Have the driver expose a a proper 0-100 limit to ALSA and process that internally
2010-11-04 07:29 <B_Lizzard> I haven't had any success doing softvol in userspace and using dmix would be prohibitive
2010-11-04 07:57 <kyak> xiangfu: okay, i see
2010-11-04 08:04 <larsc> B_Lizzard: nope
2010-11-04 08:04 <B_Lizzard> :(
2010-11-04 10:35 <rafa> bartbes: hey.. I forgot to tell you, but lua is now on the repositoires of Muffinman
2010-11-04 11:07 <kristianpaul> juan64bits: hey
2010-11-04 11:07 <kristianpaul> or hola?
2010-11-04 11:08 <juan64bits> hola :)
2010-11-04 11:10 <kristianpaul> juan64bits: conoces alguna implementacion de un DSO que puedira adaptarse a SIE ?
2010-11-04 11:10 <kristianpaul> por cierto sabes como va el proyecto del analizador logico de los estudiantes de la UIS?
2010-11-04 11:11 <juan64bits> de DSO no conozco ... y del analizador lógico ni idea jejeje... en la unal también lo están haciendo pero no han adelantado mucho
2010-11-04 11:12 <kristianpaul> :-/
2010-11-04 11:12 <kristianpaul> si algo me comento camargo..
2010-11-04 11:12 <kristianpaul> ok
2010-11-04 11:12 <kristianpaul> juan64bits: vos conoces el funcamiento del ADC para SIE?
2010-11-04 11:13 <kristianpaul> es que no he mirado mucho
2010-11-04 11:13 <juan64bits> si, yo hice el ejemplo de ADC en QT que está en la wiki
2010-11-04 11:13 <kristianpaul> ohh !
2010-11-04 11:14 <kristianpaul> podrias apuntarme las partes claves para leer los datos de la FPGA?
2010-11-04 11:14 <kristianpaul> es que compilar QT es un enredo, quisiera tener una version en C con SDL
2010-11-04 11:14 <kristianpaul> juan64bits: ya sabes que ya tenemos soportado SIE en Jlime ?
2010-11-04 11:14 <kristianpaul> con el xcs3prog.. y el siggen
2010-11-04 11:15 <kristianpaul> falta es el scop
2010-11-04 11:15 <kristianpaul> lo bueno en jlime es que con el X podemos correr varias aplicaciones como gtkwave tal ves...
2010-11-04 11:16 <juan64bits> ah o, mm pues sería hacer el memorymap a la región 0x14000000, el periférico del ADC está de la posición 0 a la 2047, y se usan los cuatro primeros bytes para la configuración
2010-11-04 11:17 <juan64bits> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:ADC.png
2010-11-04 11:17 <juan64bits> el periférico era una prueba inicial y no tiene control de IRQ, esa sería el inconveniente
2010-11-04 11:17 <kristianpaul> no problema
2010-11-04 11:19 <kristianpaul> okmastarde intento hacer un printf u alog basico paracomprarbar que si puedo leer
2010-11-04 11:19 <kristianpaul> gracias juan64bits  !
2010-11-04 11:19 <juan64bits> ok.. cualquier cosa me preguntas
2010-11-04 11:19 <kristianpaul> ok
2010-11-04 11:21 <rafa> juan64bits: kristianpaul : si qt4 es un requisito indispensable para sie/sakc yo puedo tratar de portarlo a jlime..
2010-11-04 11:22 <kristianpaul> rafa: pues hay varias apps ya en qt4 que no hepodido compilar
2010-11-04 11:22 <kristianpaul> almenos que se crosscopile
2010-11-04 11:23 <kristianpaul> pero seria intesante poeder compilar cosas de qt4 en SIE
2010-11-04 11:24 <kristianpaul> que es lo interesante de jliem y sus 11000 paquetes
2010-11-04 11:24 <kristianpaul> y no tener que crosscompilar cada rato
2010-11-04 11:25 <kristianpaul> claro que empaquetar el softbasico como el siggen, el ejemplo del ADC  y el xcs3prog no es mala idea
2010-11-04 11:25 <rafa> kristianpaul: wow.. no pense' que qt4 seria lo mas usado en mobile devices :P
2010-11-04 11:25 <kristianpaul> jajaja
2010-11-04 11:25 <rafa> kristianpaul: ya superamos los 16000 paquetes ;)
2010-11-04 11:25 <kristianpaul> ohh
2010-11-04 11:25 <kristianpaul> juan64bits: vos usaste el qt creator para esos ejemplos??
2010-11-04 11:26 <kristianpaul> por que eso si no creo se pueda correr en jlime ;-)
2010-11-04 11:26 <juan64bits> si, qtcreator
2010-11-04 11:26 <kristianpaul> por recursos y mouse..
2010-11-04 11:26 <kristianpaul> ah
2010-11-04 11:26 <kristianpaul> bueno
2010-11-04 11:26 <rafa> kristianpaul: pero porque no va a funcionar? (qt creator)
2010-11-04 11:26 <kristianpaul> pero es util si puediran compilar mas agilmente en la board juan64bits ?
2010-11-04 11:26 <rafa> juan64bits: son tus aplicaciones para la pantalla de la nanonote o sie?
2010-11-04 11:26 <kristianpaul> rafa: recursos mouse..
2010-11-04 11:26 <kristianpaul> rafa: es la misma
2010-11-04 11:26 <rafa> kristianpaul: pero entonces?? no entiendo nada :(
2010-11-04 11:27 <kristianpaul> rafa: digo que ellos dise;an las apps en el qtcreator luego las pueden compilar en el SIE con Jlime
2010-11-04 11:27 <rafa> kristianpaul: usan mouse en sie?
2010-11-04 11:27 <juan64bits> @rafa no entendí la pregunta jejeje
2010-11-04 11:27 <kristianpaul> no no
2010-11-04 11:27 <kristianpaul> rafa: qtcreator es un IdE para QT
2010-11-04 11:27 <kristianpaul> para dise;ar apps
2010-11-04 11:27 <rafa> juan64bits: es que mis preguntas estan confusas porque soy yo el que no entiende :D
2010-11-04 11:28 <rafa> kristianpaul: y les funcionan finalmente la aplicacion en openwrt en sie?
2010-11-04 11:28 <kristianpaul> rafa: yo creo si se pueden compilar apps de qt4 en SIE todo va bien
2010-11-04 11:28 <kristianpaul> rafa: si
2010-11-04 11:28 <kristianpaul> rafa: si en openwrt creo ya juan64bits maneja bien le cross compilado
2010-11-04 11:28 <rafa> kristianpaul: y cross compilan con ese qtcreator?
2010-11-04 11:28 <kristianpaul> no se
2010-11-04 11:29 <kristianpaul> NO manejo QT
2010-11-04 11:29 <kristianpaul> :p
2010-11-04 11:29 <rafa> juan64bits: disenian las aplicaciones con qt creator.. y como las crosscompilan?
2010-11-04 11:29 <kristianpaul> juan64bits: comop compilas las appas para QT para SIE/Openqrt?
2010-11-04 11:29 <juan64bits> con el QtCreator no crosscompilamos, aunque se puede. pero hay que dar más vueltas para configurarlo
2010-11-04 11:29 <rafa> juan64bits: como manejan qt en openwrt?.. tienen una libreria qt sobre el framebuffer?
2010-11-04 11:29 <kristianpaul> rafa: me imagino usan el toolchgain de ope nwrt
2010-11-04 11:29 <kristianpaul> export blabla QT aqui y alla?
2010-11-04 11:30 <kristianpaul> qmake !
2010-11-04 11:30 <kristianpaul> no?
2010-11-04 11:30 <juan64bits> aja qmake, pero con el qmake.conf para openwrt
2010-11-04 11:30 <juan64bits> y el respectivo toolchain
2010-11-04 11:30 <kristianpaul> tienes  manual sobre eso??
2010-11-04 11:30 <kristianpaul> o doc en la wiki?>
2010-11-04 11:30 <juan64bits> y si es sobre framebuffer... linuxfb o directfb
2010-11-04 11:31 <kristianpaul> rafa: probe los binarios de los ejemplos en QT para openwrt y no me ejecutaron en jliem.. :/
2010-11-04 11:32 <rafa> kristianpaul: okey.. me podes dar un tar.gz de una aplicacion qt de esas ?
2010-11-04 11:32 <juan64bits> en la wiki estan las modificaciones al qmake.conf para generaar el makefile correcto
2010-11-04 11:32 <rafa> kristianpaul: (los fuentes)
2010-11-04 11:33 <kristianpaul> rafa: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/nn-usb-fpga/source/tree/master/Examples/ADC/Scope-QT-src
2010-11-04 11:34 <kristianpaul> ese es lde sofware ADC para visualizar
2010-11-04 11:34 <kristianpaul> mas informacion con juan64bits ;-)
2010-11-04 11:34 <juan64bits> (Y)
2010-11-04 11:35 <kristianpaul> juan64bits: el refresco del ADC no se como pobre..
2010-11-04 11:35 <kristianpaul> se puede mejroar?
2010-11-04 11:35 <kristianpaul> no se es como**
2010-11-04 11:35 <kristianpaul> por  eso pensasba en SDL
2010-11-04 11:35 <kristianpaul> no es que ODIE qt
2010-11-04 11:35 <juan64bits> claro que se puede mejorar
2010-11-04 11:36 <juan64bits> ese era un ejemplo para comprobar que esta funcioando todo bien en la placa
2010-11-04 11:36 <kristianpaul> udes si usan ese ADC en SIE?
2010-11-04 11:36 <kristianpaul> hmm
2010-11-04 11:36 <kristianpaul> :p
2010-11-04 11:36 <juan64bits> no jejeje, por ahora no ha tenido un uso "serio"
2010-11-04 11:37 <kristianpaul> ya sabia..
2010-11-04 11:37 <juan64bits> supongo que alguno de los proyectos de curso lo estarán usando
2010-11-04 11:37 <kristianpaul> ;-)
2010-11-04 12:48 <rafa> kristianpaul: I did git clone of the link you gave me. Now I got:
2010-11-04 12:48 <rafa> binaries   Examples             lua                 Software
2010-11-04 12:48 <rafa> course     KICAD_design_files   ORCAD_design_files  u-boot_sakc
2010-11-04 12:48 <rafa> Datasheet  linux-2.6.32.7_sakc  plasma              xilinx_lib
2010-11-04 12:48 <rafa> docs       lm32                 sie_fs
2010-11-04 12:48 <rafa> what should I try ? :P
2010-11-04 13:03 <kristianpaul> rafa: /nn-usb-fpga/Examples/ADC/Scope-QT-src
2010-11-04 13:05 <aisa> Does the Yeeloong Notebook use the same processor as the Ben NanoNote?
2010-11-04 13:05 <aisa> http://www.lemote.com/en/products/Notebook/2010/0310/112.html
2010-11-04 13:06 <kristianpaul> nope
2010-11-04 13:06 <aisa> how would I tell this?
2010-11-04 13:06 <aisa> I get confused by "MIPS"
2010-11-04 13:06 <kristianpaul> not ge
2010-11-04 13:06 <kristianpaul> is like x86
2010-11-04 13:06 <kristianpaul> intel is not the only
2010-11-04 13:07 <kristianpaul> ther is AMD too
2010-11-04 13:07 <kristianpaul> same in MIPS
2010-11-04 13:07 <kristianpaul> letmeo uses Loongsoon processors
2010-11-04 13:07 <aisa> what do you mean by not ge?
2010-11-04 13:08 <kristianpaul> not get
2010-11-04 13:09 <kristianpaul> ben nanonote uses Xburst
2010-11-04 13:09 <kristianpaul> but i wonder if the Loongsoon follow MIPS arch at all
2010-11-04 13:11 <larsc> yes, they even got a license from MIPS
2010-11-04 13:22 <kristianpaul> hmm yes
2010-11-04 13:22 <kristianpaul> even i think next cpus will run x86 instructions
2010-11-04 13:23 <kristianpaul> rafa: did wotk for you that folder?
2010-11-04 13:52 <kristianpaul> .
2010-11-04 13:53 <rafa> kristianpaul: I have not tried yet, I am reading how qt works for different platforms and how to crosscompile using that
2010-11-04 13:55 <rafa> kristianpaul: from that I am reading we have all the tools on repository to do that, but no sure to build on nn, I'm talking about crosscompile
2010-11-04 13:55 <kristianpaul> hmm
2010-11-04 13:55 <kristianpaul> is too hard got wt build env on jlime?
2010-11-04 13:56 <rafa> mmhÂ?
2010-11-04 13:56 <rafa> ?
2010-11-04 13:56 <rafa> what?
2010-11-04 13:57 <rafa> sorry, I did not understand that
2010-11-04 13:58 <rafa> kristianpaul: what did you mean?
2010-11-04 14:00 <kristianpaul> i wanr type qmake
2010-11-04 14:00 <kristianpaul> and got my ADC
2010-11-04 14:00 <rafa> so you already built?
2010-11-04 14:03 <rafa> kristianpaul: btw, qmake just generates Makefiles to build
2010-11-04 14:03 <rafa> kristianpaul: after that you need to run make to build
2010-11-04 14:05 <kristianpaul> ajap
2010-11-04 14:05 <kristianpaul> hm
2010-11-04 14:08 <kristianpaul> so
2010-11-04 14:09 <kristianpaul> there is QT build Envrioment avaliable for Jlime?
2010-11-04 14:09 <kristianpaul> is this the qt4-core package?
2010-11-04 14:37 <rafa> kristianpaul: I have no idea.. trying to learn about that right now.. if you look for qt on repositories you will find around 300 packages. SO better I read a while about qt development :) (i am reaking nokia docs currently)
2010-11-04 14:39 <kristianpaul> o
2010-11-04 14:39 <kristianpaul> k
2010-11-04 15:10 <Ornotermes> is any one familiar with linux (software)sd-stack?
2010-11-04 15:20 <viric> Where is tuxbrain, btw?
2010-11-04 15:20 <viric> I wonder, is anyone going to sell SIEs ?
2010-11-04 15:32 <kristianpaul> viric: seems is sold out for now
2010-11-04 15:32 <kristianpaul> i hear SIEv3 is coming
2010-11-04 15:33 <kristianpaul> may be juan64bits can tell more about next SIE version and next production date?
2010-11-04 15:35 <juan64bits> the design  v3 is in process.... carlos camargo know more about that ...
2010-11-04 15:35 <juan64bits> about date
2010-11-04 15:38 <viric> ahh really out?
2010-11-04 15:38 <viric> impressive :)
2010-11-04 15:38 <viric> and how much were v2?
2010-11-04 15:40 <viric> have them to be...mmmm   "encargados"?
2010-11-04 15:40 <viric> kristianpaul: I know that word in Spanish and not in English.
2010-11-04 15:40 <viric> pues, hace falta encargarlos?
2010-11-04 15:41 <kristianpaul> no se si ya se pueda
2010-11-04 15:53 <viric> ok
2010-11-04 15:55 <kristianpaul> i dont know if is posible order SIE now
2010-11-04 16:05 <B_Lizzard> larsc, did I ever mention that 2.6.36 doesn't give me console output on boot and shutdown other than the initial kernel messages?
2010-11-04 16:07 <B_Lizzard> I think that also prevents stuff like psplash of running during boot
2010-11-04 16:10 <larsc> B_Lizzard: thats probably just a config issue
2010-11-04 16:11 <B_Lizzard> cmdline seems OK... I'm using the config from projects.qi-hardware...
2010-11-04 16:11 <B_Lizzard> Lemme check
2010-11-04 16:13 <B_Lizzard> Which config option would that be?
2010-11-04 16:13 <B_Lizzard> :/
2010-11-04 16:14 <B_Lizzard> Hmmm, maybe it's not a kernel issue.
2010-11-04 16:26 <B_Lizzard> Yeah, probably not a kernel issue...
2010-11-04 16:26 <B_Lizzard> What could it be?
2010-11-04 16:28 <B_Lizzard> I see in cmdline that console is defined twice, one with tty0 and one with ttyS0
2010-11-04 16:28 <B_Lizzard> Maybe stuff is ending up in the serial console?
2010-11-04 16:43 <larsc> if its in the cmdline twice it should end up on both consoles
2010-11-04 16:44 <B_Lizzard> You mentioned a kernel config that could be responsible?
2010-11-04 16:45 <larsc> uff
2010-11-04 16:47 <larsc> hm, framebuffer console is enabled
2010-11-04 16:53 <B_Lizzard> Maybe CONFIG_FB_VIRTUAL?
2010-11-04 16:59 <larsc> no
2010-11-04 17:01 <B_Lizzard> Hmmm
2010-11-04 17:07 <B_Lizzard> It's not my sysvinit either
2010-11-04 17:07 <B_Lizzard> I can't think of anything other than the kernel
2010-11-04 17:31 <B_Lizzard> Most definately is the kernel, I'm getting messages from init with 2.6.34 and no messages with 2.6.36
2010-11-04 17:34 <larsc> ok
2010-11-04 17:39 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: i worked with it some time ago (~2 years)
2010-11-04 17:42 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: i was thinking of digging in a bit in it to see if it would be at all possible to make a cheap mcu of some kind emulate a block device over 4-bit MMC/SD (instead of using gpio), what do you think?
2010-11-04 17:44 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: hmm, if you can find an MCU with a built-in SD device controller. i've never seen such a thing, but i guess it must exist somewhere
2010-11-04 17:45 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: i think it would be difficult to get the bus timing right just with software. maybe in 1 bit more, but i'm not even sure about this.
2010-11-04 17:46 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: i dont expect to find that, but since it is possible to use a cheap 8bit avr to bitbang usb with 1.5Mbit/s it soesent seem unlikely to work with SD either
2010-11-04 17:47 <Ornotermes> people have done incredible things with simple hardware
2010-11-04 17:48 <wpwrak> hmm, it would depend on the ability to slow down the clock sufficiently
2010-11-04 17:49 <Ornotermes> i was thinking of looking a bit at old SD hardware
2010-11-04 17:50 <wpwrak> okay, low-speed SDIO is not too demanding. only 400 kHz, with 4 bit being optional. so it's 400-1600 kbps
2010-11-04 17:51 <Ornotermes> the problem is SDIO, not all hardware supports it
2010-11-04 17:51 <Ornotermes> there for i want to emulate a block device
2010-11-04 17:51 <wpwrak> interesting idea ... :)
2010-11-04 17:52 <wpwrak> hmm, what's the problem with SDIO ? you'll probably need some driver for your peripheral anyway
2010-11-04 17:52 <Ornotermes> i think the spectec wifi cards works as block devices and there for don't require hardware with sdio
2010-11-04 17:52 <wpwrak> that is, unless it's really just storage
2010-11-04 17:52 <wpwrak> really ? that would be quite odd. possible but odd.
2010-11-04 17:53 <wpwrak> but what problem are you trying to solve anyway ? on which host that's sd-capable but not sdio-capable do you want to use your peripheral ?
2010-11-04 17:54 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: i might be wron, but i think i heard/read something about wificards looking as block devices
2010-11-04 17:55 <wpwrak> ah, found something. a complete sdio spec ;-) http://www.sandisk.com/Assets/File/OEM/Manuals/SD_SDIO_specsv1.pdf
2010-11-04 17:55 <wejp> there are these special wifi sd cards that work in arbitrary devices using sd slots. those work just like storage devices, but "normal" wifi sd cards always use sdio
2010-11-04 17:56 <FrankBlues> waves
2010-11-04 17:57 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: the problem is bens lack of expandability, and i rather put the load of bit banging on a external mcu rather than the cpu
2010-11-04 17:58 <Ornotermes> and a device that works on other hardware than just ben could be very useful not only for us
2010-11-04 17:59 <wpwrak> hmm, i see. not sure how efficient that would be, though. without sdio, you don't have interrupts. so you'd have to poll the card for events.
2010-11-04 18:00 <Ornotermes> and yes, some sort of driver would probably be needed, but it could even be a virtual fs that lets the software sun in usermode
2010-11-04 18:03 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: off course that is something worth taking under concideration but i still think it would be better than bitbanging things like spi from the sd-port, also it could give a whole buch of extra gpio
2010-11-04 18:03 <wpwrak> hmm, with caching and all that, you'd heavily depend on the host operating system's internals for this to work.
2010-11-04 18:05 <Ornotermes> does linux cache on block device level? i thought it cached on filesystem level?
2010-11-04 18:05 <wpwrak> what's nice about big-banging from the host is that you can make very simple and dumb boards. also, all the software sits on the host, so you don't need yet another cross-chain, knowledge about an MCU architecture, tools to flash the MCU, etc.
2010-11-04 18:07 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: linux caches on the block level. some file systems may have additional caches. e.g., msdos(fs) has a read cache for the FAT.
2010-11-04 18:07 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: the bad thing with bit-bang is that it takes more cpu time than the mmc-interface
2010-11-04 18:07 <wpwrak> yes, that's true
2010-11-04 18:08 <Ornotermes> i see, i thought it only cached on filesystem level because there is options like sync
2010-11-04 18:08 <wpwrak> of course, if you need to go from interrupt to polling, that may be even more expensive. but i could see a point in implementing SDIO with an MCU.
2010-11-04 18:09 <wpwrak> (sync) the file system can tell the buffer cache when it wants data to be committed to disk. (if it's that what you mean)
2010-11-04 18:09 <Ornotermes> maybe it would be possible to have both even, mainly SDIO but failover to SD if there is no SDIO
2010-11-04 18:10 <wpwrak> sure. there are a lot of possibilities :)
2010-11-04 18:13 <Ornotermes> any way, was thinking of trying some stuff on stm32 (if i get things working)
2010-11-04 18:13 <Ornotermes> and i think the linux source is a good way to get information
2010-11-04 18:15 <wpwrak> if you wan to implement an SD/SDIO device, the linux kernel isn't so helpful. you'll eventually have to look at it, because there will be bugs and it helps if you can catch things at a lower layer :)
2010-11-04 18:15 <wpwrak> what you need to understand are the SD and SDIO specs.
2010-11-04 18:16 <Ornotermes> yeah, it is atleast woth a shot
2010-11-04 18:16 <wpwrak> if you have a scope with at least 3 channels, that helps too. there's even an SDIO decoder in my TMC package.
2010-11-04 18:16 <Ornotermes> i trying to put my hands on this kind of card: http://hackaday.com/2010/10/12/arm-prototyping-on-the-cheap-with-stm32-discovery/
2010-11-04 18:17 <wpwrak> (channels) digital is sufficient. e.g., an MSO with 2 analog and some digital channels is fine. or some logic analyzer. unfortuntely, there are very very few PC LAs that are linux-friendly
2010-11-04 18:17 <Ornotermes> i also have a board since before with stm32 that i never have put to use (avr works too good with linux :P)
2010-11-04 18:18 <Ornotermes> sadly i only have a cheap 2 channel scope
2010-11-04 18:18 <Ornotermes> but i have a bus pirate
2010-11-04 18:19 <Ornotermes> but that is probably too slow
2010-11-04 18:21 <wpwrak> (bus pirate) says up to 1 MHz logic analyzer. that shuold be enough for a low-speed SDIO card (400 kHz)
2010-11-04 18:23 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: sounds good
2010-11-04 18:24 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: i also got an idea how to slove the polling issue(if it works)
2010-11-04 18:28 <Ornotermes> if one would like to get the status and reads a status block, what if it instead of returning 0 would wait to return anything at all til there is something to report?
2010-11-04 18:29 <steve|m> for all friends of awesome hacks: http://hackaday.com/2010/11/04/mac-se-reborn-as-a-server-and-mac-emulator/
2010-11-04 18:29 <Ornotermes> kind of a very long acces time
2010-11-04 18:29 <Ornotermes> steve|m: i saw it earlier today, it's a really cool project
2010-11-04 18:35 <wpwrak> (status block) hmm, but once you read it, it would be caches. also, if you don't respond, you get a timeout. so the host will think there's an i/o error.
2010-11-04 18:37 <Ornotermes> the cache is ofc a problem again
2010-11-04 18:38 <Ornotermes> one could read new adresses all time but that would probably cache out everything else
2010-11-04 18:40 <wpwrak> you would recycle cache entries, yes. also, there is readahead. so the file system may decide to read more than just one block, assuming you'll want the other blocks as well.
2010-11-04 18:41 <Ornotermes> hmmm, true
2010-11-04 19:03 <lekernel> (old mac) why do i find that boring...?
2010-11-04 19:05 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: an SDIO implementation with an MCU should be feasible. however, one problem is that you'll still have very tight timing if you bit-bang the I/Os. i.e., you couldn't do more than one timing-critical thing reliably in this device.
2010-11-04 19:06 <steve|m> lekernel: well, I like the linux framebuffer-via-usb thing most interesting :)
2010-11-04 19:06 <steve|m> *find
2010-11-04 19:07 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: i'm not sure how v-usb does it. i would suspect that it either had the same restriction or that it heavily relies on USB's built-in retransmission mechanism
2010-11-04 19:09 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: yes, i will try to find out how sd(io) select the clock speed
2010-11-04 19:10 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: if your MCU has DMA (or large FIFOs), you may be able to mitigate the timing issues, though.
2010-11-04 19:10 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: (clock speed) http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdio/sdio_spec/Simplified_SDIO_Card_Spec.pdf
2010-11-04 19:11 <Ornotermes> and i don't really know how v-usb does it, what i know is that it requires at least 12MHz to work and reads input on a hardware interupt pin
2010-11-04 19:11 <wpwrak> pages 29 and 32
2010-11-04 19:12 <lekernel> does what? (sorry didn't follow)
2010-11-04 19:13 <Ornotermes> lekernel: how v-usb handles usb bit banging
2010-11-04 19:13 <lekernel> hand crafted asm
2010-11-04 19:14 <lekernel> on avr all instructions execute in a fixed time, so all you have to do is some asm wizardry so that the bits are out at the right time
2010-11-04 19:16 <wpwrak> lekernel: the question is: how do you get anything else done, besides USB communication ? there doesn't seem to be much tolerance, unless you accept that you may miss a transmission from time to time.
2010-11-04 19:18 <lekernel> interrupts I guess
2010-11-04 19:18 <lekernel> no?
2010-11-04 19:19 <Ornotermes> still, even if one use interupts it might take a buch of tics from triggering till the software get to check it
2010-11-04 19:20 <lekernel> no, the interrupt latency on AVR is low
2010-11-04 19:20 <lekernel> and aren't you able to use GPIO-triggered interrupts?
2010-11-04 19:21 <lekernel> ie get an irq when some external pin changes value
2010-11-04 19:21 <steve|m> my experience with v-usb is that it works quite reliable, even if a bunch of other interrupts are active (3 timers, TWI, SPI, etc.)
2010-11-04 19:22 <Ornotermes> lekernel: i don't relly know but what i read v-usb needs the highest dedicated interupt in use
2010-11-04 19:22 <wpwrak> steve|m: would be interesting if someone dug into it and figured out how many spare cycles it really has.
2010-11-04 19:23 <wpwrak> steve|m: or if it causes long "blackouts" during which interrupts are blocked
2010-11-04 19:24 <wpwrak> steve|m: e.g., can you make an interface for sustained SPI input to USB, without losing SPI data ?
2010-11-04 19:24 <wpwrak> steve|m: if yes, how many USB transmission do you lose ?
2010-11-04 19:24 <wpwrak> steve|m: and of course, up to which SPI clock rate ?
2010-11-04 19:25 <lekernel> you could just use a ftdi-chip for that :)
2010-11-04 19:25 <steve|m> wpwrak: it worked fine for 200kHz I2C with an atmega168 @ 12MHz without any loss.. no data on spi
2010-11-04 19:25 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: most AVRs have hardware spi
2010-11-04 19:26 <wpwrak> lekernel: so you're supporting chips that are largely undocumented ? :)
2010-11-04 19:27 <lekernel> that or the AVR, it doesn't make much difference
2010-11-04 19:27 <lekernel> and the ftdi is faster and less work to get working
2010-11-04 19:27 <wpwrak> steve|m: I2C master, slave, or both ?
2010-11-04 19:28 <steve|m> wpwrak: master only
2010-11-04 19:28 <wpwrak> lekernel: depends a lot on which FTDI and what you're trying to do. e.g., i got burned with the FT232 and bit-banging. the darn thing just doesn't work reliably.
2010-11-04 19:28 <wpwrak> steve|m: okay, that's not a challenge ;-)
2010-11-04 19:36 <lekernel> http://www.ll.mit.edu/publications/journal/pdf/vol14_no2/14_2subwavelength.pdf
2010-11-04 19:36 <steve|m> in support of the FT2232 I have to say that it works fine as jtag adapter and supports odd baudrates :)
2010-11-04 19:36 <wpwrak> steve|m: as long as you can control the timing of anything besides the USB, you're fine. also, if the other thing gives you plenty of time to respond (e.g., enough to process a USB packet), you're fine too.
2010-11-04 19:37 <steve|m> what about one of those avrs with usb? Atmega8U2 or something
2010-11-04 19:37 <Ornotermes> well, time to sleep
2010-11-04 19:37 <Ornotermes> good night every one
2010-11-04 19:38 <wpwrak> steve|m: the FT2232 seems to be okay (except for the documentation situation, of course). but the FT232 seems to have issues. of course, without proper documentation, it's hard to tell where the problem is. maybe the chip itself is fine, just nobody has figured out how to use it correctly.
2010-11-04 19:39 <wpwrak> steve|m: V-USB was just an example for a timing-critical protocol implemented in software. what we're after is SDIO. also there, you need to respond quickly when the host sends a command.
2010-11-04 19:40 <wpwrak> lekernel: how long until you'll have your own fab ? ;-)
2010-11-04 19:45 <wpwrak> and we have a new name for notches in corners. mousebite. this thing also exists in the cnc world, where you have to mill into a concave/inner corner if you want to fit something with a rectangular corner.
2010-11-04 19:46 <steve|m> wpwrak: ah okay.. quite some time ago I built a time-lapse cam and wanted to transfer the images via wifi.. one idea was to emulate an sd-card, but instead I went for a sd/usb dual card, toggling the "battery compartment open" switch to unmount the card, move the pics off, remount, take next picture etc.
2010-11-04 19:47 <wpwrak> one name i found there was "dogbone", referring to the orientation of the notch (you could have the same effect with an infinite number of different notches. "dogbone" is evenly placed beteen the two sides. "t-bone" would mill only into one, not the other, etc.). not sure if that's official, though.
2010-11-04 19:48 <wpwrak> steve|m: cool ! :) how did you implement the "SD card" ?
2010-11-04 19:51 <steve|m> wpwrak: well, I didn't implement it, I cheated an used something like that: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/06/buffalosd.jpg .. so I controlled the gpios of the cam with an avr and "unmounted" the card by toggling the battery compartment switch.. the card was connected via usb to a router with openwrt, where the card then was mounted etc.
2010-11-04 19:52 <steve|m> didn't use it that long, but would have been interesting how long it'll take until the card fails :)
2010-11-04 19:53 <steve|m> anyway, gotta go to bed.. n8
2010-11-04 19:53 <wpwrak> heh, that's a crazy device :-)
2010-11-04 21:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: cntr/fw/include/cntr/usb-ids.h was never checked in. Oops ! http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c28ab2c
2010-11-04 21:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: CAM setup update. Local relevance only. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/0fc2960
2010-11-04 21:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Support design version 2 in the boot loader. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/188bdb8
2010-11-04 21:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: cntr/README update: name clarification and bugs list. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c91658e
2010-11-04 21:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: include/cntr/crc32.c was lost in the great involuntary purge. Add a dummy. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f5388ca
2010-11-04 21:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Adapted firmware for V2 hardware. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/4e568b0
2010-11-04 21:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Document that the input circuit does not reach the design frequency (3 MHz) yet. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8cb17bb
2010-11-04 21:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added burst counter mode to cntr tool, plus assorted small improvements. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/df1706f
2010-11-04 21:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: cntr/README: cntr -r always returns an error, so we cannot use it with && http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/43f0bce
2010-11-04 22:14 <qi-bot> [commit] Juan64Bits: Adding M[0] M[1] configuration and fpga crystal http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/ca69a54
2010-11-04 23:26 <qi-bot> [commit] Mirko Vogt: add <http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/sources> as mirror for source http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f88bb01