2010-10-17 00:01 <qwebirc35353> wpwrak: Hey, This what I got when I booted my 16GB sd card, with first partition 2GB ext2 type:  File not found /boot/uImage   Wrong Image Format for bootm command   Error: can't get kernel image!
2010-10-17 00:02 <wpwrak> hmm, rafa ?
2010-10-17 00:02 <wpwrak> qwebirc35353: i haven't played with booting from uSD on the ben yet, so this message doesn't ring any bells
2010-10-17 00:03 <qwebirc35353> wpwrak: gotcha
2010-10-17 00:04 <qwebirc35353> rafa: you still there
2010-10-17 00:06 <wolfspraul> qwebirc35353: hmm, so if that is the same bug like the u-boot ext2 filesystem bug I have in mind, then it means it may be related to a large block size or something else that is large on the 16gb card, irrespective of the partition size.
2010-10-17 00:07 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: boom/dist/dk/dk-catq.pl: allow out-of-stock parts http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/b66b71f
2010-10-17 00:07 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: manu/Makefile were highly redundant. Moved their content to a common Makefile. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/ac7ebdd
2010-10-17 00:07 <wolfspraul> we are on this bug, but I cannot promise it's fixed in a day or so. Let's see when xiangfu is back what he has found out about it lately.
2010-10-17 00:07 <wpwrak> 12629 parts now
2010-10-17 00:07 <qwebirc35353> wolfspraul: ok, then I will try my 4 GB sd card then
2010-10-17 00:07 <qwebirc35353> thanks
2010-10-17 02:12 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Oops, murata-grm.catq wasn't committed http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/afda18a
2010-10-17 02:12 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Makefile (CHR): generate from list of manufacturer names http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/db2ecbf
2010-10-17 02:12 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added TDK C series of ceramic SMT capacitors. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/fd67bc9
2010-10-17 02:51 <qi-bot> [commit] Erwin Lopez: initial import http://qi-hw.com/p/sie-ceimtun/0a65a50
2010-10-17 03:42 <kyak> hmm.. i wonder why process '/bin/sh /etc/init.d/rcS S boot' never exits
2010-10-17 03:42 <kyak> it just sit there all the time, eating 1.3M of memory
2010-10-17 03:49 <wolfspraul> hmm. in OpenWrt?
2010-10-17 03:59 <kyak> wolfspraul: yes
2010-10-17 03:59 <kyak> do you see it?
2010-10-17 04:00 <wolfspraul> I ran some nand testing no rootfs right now :-)
2010-10-17 04:01 <wolfspraul> but if that process is really there and has nothing to do, seems like we can recover 1.3M :-)
2010-10-17 04:01 <kyak> indeed we can
2010-10-17 04:03 <kyak> when i compare with openwrt on linksys router, this process exits
2010-10-17 04:03 <kyak> might be that one of the initialisation scripts is not exiting correctly
2010-10-17 04:06 <kyak> also, i would get rid of logger and klogd (thus freeing another 2.6 Mb of memory)
2010-10-17 04:07 <kyak> they are useless most of the time and can be activated on demand, when one needs to debug something
2010-10-17 05:03 <kyak> xiangfu: hi
2010-10-17 05:04 <kyak> xiangfu: i think there is a problem with fnkeys
2010-10-17 05:05 <kyak> it has no facility to daemonize, therefore it is started as 'fnkeys $DEVICE_PW &' from /etc/init.d/fn-handle
2010-10-17 05:05 <kyak> but this way, /etc/init.d/fn-handle wait forever for fnkeys to exit
2010-10-17 05:06 <kyak> thus, '/bin/sh /etc/init.d/rcS S boot' and 'logger -s -p 6 -t sysinit' are also hanging there forever
2010-10-17 05:06 <kyak> logger is blocked in read()
2010-10-17 05:07 <kyak> in total, there are two additional processes that should not be there after the system is booted: '/bin/sh /etc/init.d/rcS S boot' and 'logger -s -p 6 -t sysinit'
2010-10-17 05:20 <kyak> xiangfu: the way around it is to start fnkeys this way: start-stop-daemon -S -x /usr/bin/fnkeys -b $DEVICE_PW
2010-10-17 05:45 <xiangfu_> kyak: Hi. thanks for report.
2010-10-17 05:47 <xiangfu_> kyak: let me boot my nanonote. test it again. :)
2010-10-17 05:47 <kyak> xiangfu_: sure
2010-10-17 05:52 <kyak> btw, i also got rid of unused tty's, syslogd and klogd - not it;s using less then 13 Mb after boot
2010-10-17 05:52 <kyak> *now it's
2010-10-17 05:53 <kyak> this is with mmc, ubifs:data mounted and one login session via ssh
2010-10-17 06:00 <xiangfu_> so you think the  syslogd and klogd is useless for NanoNote. do you think we should disable them by default ?
2010-10-17 06:02 <kyak> i decided to disable it for myself, i'm not sure it is better for everyone
2010-10-17 06:03 <xiangfu_> kyak: ok. let's just keep them there by default. in fact I never check my pc logs.  :)
2010-10-17 06:05 <kyak> i check them on my PC only when i have some problems and need to debug something
2010-10-17 06:05 <xiangfu_> wolfspraul: Hi, uploaded : http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Openwrt-screenshot-2010-09-14.png
2010-10-17 06:06 <kyak> xiangfu_: if you don't mind, i can commit the modified fn-handle/files/fn-handle.init
2010-10-17 06:07 <xiangfu_> kyak: go ahead.  thanks for your commit.
2010-10-17 06:08 <qi-bot> [commit] kyak: fnkeys is now correctly daemonized at start http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/1a6e2dc
2010-10-17 06:08 <kyak> xiangfu_: np
2010-10-17 06:25 <kyak> xiangfu_: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak/tmp/file.png
2010-10-17 06:26 <kyak> a cooler screenshot, with sdcard free space shown :)
2010-10-17 06:27 <xiangfu_> kyak: cool
2010-10-17 06:28 <xiangfu_> kyak: Hi. after apply your patch. there are still in two "/bin/sh /etc/init.d/rcS S boot" one "logger -s -p 6 -t sysinit" here.
2010-10-17 06:31 <kyak> hm, that's strange
2010-10-17 06:32 <kyak> do you have gmenu2x started by default?
2010-10-17 06:34 <xiangfu_> kyak: yes. here is the "ps aux" : http://pastebin.ca/1964734
2010-10-17 06:34 <kyak> i don't have it, but if you do, and it's started from /etc/init.d/start, then it causing the same thing as fnkeys
2010-10-17 06:35 <kyak> /bin/sh /etc/rc.common /etc/rc.d/S99start boot
2010-10-17 06:35 <kyak> this one also never exits
2010-10-17 06:47 <xiangfu_> kyak: I am asking this question in #openwrt. hope someone can help me to debug.
2010-10-17 06:48 <kyak> it's not really openwrt-related.. i'm trying the same trick with start-stop-daemon now/...
2010-10-17 06:55 <wolfspraul> kyak: wow so you freed at least 1.3 MB for everybody!
2010-10-17 06:55 <wolfspraul> well everybody using OpenWrt
2010-10-17 06:58 <kyak> wolfspraul: not yet :) gmenu2x is still preventing it
2010-10-17 07:00 <wolfspraul> xiangfu_: thanks for the screenshot, embedded in news...
2010-10-17 07:00 <xiangfu_> kyak: yes. ask for some tips. they suggest me use "start-stop-daemon -S -b -x /usr/bin/gmenu2x"
2010-10-17 07:01 <xiangfu_> kyak: just like you have done in fnkeys.
2010-10-17 07:03 <kyak> xiangfu_: it would work, but gmenu2x requires some variables set from /etc/profile
2010-10-17 07:05 <kyak> otherwise it won't start
2010-10-17 07:06 <kyak> i started it with a wrapper now start-stop-daemon -S -x /usr/bin/gmenu2x.sh -b
2010-10-17 07:06 <kyak> where i source the /etc/profile
2010-10-17 07:07 <kyak> but now there are three processes: /bin/sh /usr/bin/gmenu2x.sh, /bin/sh /usr/bin/gmenu2x, ./gmenu2x
2010-10-17 07:08 <kyak> others that we bothering me are gone
2010-10-17 07:08 <xiangfu_> kyak: I just tested. "start-stop-daemon..." doesn't start the gmenu2x.  I think we just add "&" to the end of gmenu2x.
2010-10-17 07:08 <kyak> but three processes to start one app - too mcuh :)
2010-10-17 07:09 <kyak> xiangfu_: it won't start it because of lack of SDL_NOMOUSE and other vars
2010-10-17 07:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update config.xbboot comments http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d52f296
2010-10-17 07:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: make gmen2x run in background http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/6cdcc40
2010-10-17 07:10 <xiangfu_> kyak: now the "/bin/sh /etc/rc.common /etc/rc.d/S99start boot" exit after run gmenu2x.
2010-10-17 07:12 <xiangfu_> kyak: dinner time, back later.
2010-10-17 07:12 <kyak> bon appetit
2010-10-17 07:13 <kyak> xiangfu_: with the "&", the /bin/sh /etc/init.d/rcS S boot and logger are still there...
2010-10-17 07:13 <kyak> this only makes the gmenu2x detach from terminal, but doesn't really allow the parent terminal to exit
2010-10-17 07:14 <kyak> and so it waits... eating precious memory
2010-10-17 07:19 <wpwrak> it may help to always have a bit of swap enabled. just to get rid of hardly ever used pages. (of course, avoiding to have them in the first place is even better)
2010-10-17 07:20 <wpwrak> is it possible to swap to ubifs ?
2010-10-17 07:22 <kyak> why not?
2010-10-17 07:22 <kyak> i have a swap on sd card
2010-10-17 07:22 <kyak> but i'd still like to fight for free RAM
2010-10-17 07:42 <wpwrak> (sawp on ubifs) sometimes, when the system tries to evict pages in a memory shortage, complex subsystems can't be used to write the data, because they need to allocate significant amounts of memory on their own to do their work. swap over nfs comes to mind.
2010-10-17 07:43 <wpwrak> ubifs certainly qualifies as "complex". but i don't know how bad it is with memory. e.g., if it figures it needs to migrate the block it's trying to swap to, what happens ?
2010-10-17 07:44 <wpwrak> (fight for free RAM) definitely a good idea. i'm just saying that having a bit of swap around can ease memory pressure even more.
2010-10-17 07:55 <kyak> xiangfu_: i use this line "SDL_NOMOUSE=1 start-stop-daemon -S -x /usr/bin/gmenu2x -b" (no need for source /etc/profile) and edit /usr/bin/gmenu2x to have "#!/bin/sh" as first line
2010-10-17 07:57 <kyak> xiangfu_: now there are only two processes related to gmenu2x and others are exited
2010-10-17 08:02 <kyak> now a good idea would be to get rid of that wrapper /usr/bin/gmenu2x at all
2010-10-17 08:02 <xiangfu_> kyak: go ahead.
2010-10-17 08:24 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: just reading about EDIF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDIF
2010-10-17 08:24 <wolfspraul> that sounds depressing...
2010-10-17 08:28 <kyak> xiangfu_: looks like this is the best what we can do.. gmenu2x won't start as daemon
2010-10-17 08:28 <kyak> so two processes is the least
2010-10-17 08:29 <kyak> xiangfu_: if you have access to gmenu2x git, you can update gmenu2x.sh file there (it is copied to /usr/bin/gmenu2x)
2010-10-17 08:29 <kyak> and check if that SDL_NOMOUSE=1 start-stop-daemon -S -x /usr/bin/gmenu2x -b works for you...
2010-10-17 08:47 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update the gmenu2x.sh, add shell script head http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/9986a1f
2010-10-17 08:49 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: use start-stop-daemon to start gmenu2x, thanks to kyak http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/4c5ae5d
2010-10-17 08:49 <xiangfu> kyak: ^  committed.
2010-10-17 08:49 <xiangfu> found the gmenu2x input configure is changed.
2010-10-17 08:51 <kyak> xiangfu: thanks!
2010-10-17 08:52 <kyak> xiangfu: btw, no need to source /etc/profile now..
2010-10-17 08:55 <xiangfu> kyak: oh. yes. I forget. really sorry.
2010-10-17 08:55 <qi-bot> [commit] Xiangfu Liu: use start-stop-daemon to start gmenu2x, thanks to kyak http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ad57f36
2010-10-17 08:56 <xiangfu> kyak: since no one commit to openwrt-xburst. and no now have run 'git pull', I will rebase those three commit :)
2010-10-17 09:00 <kyak> xiangfu: yeah, use the git at full :)
2010-10-17 09:01 <xiangfu> delete the branch [tracking_trunk], since it's same with upstream.
2010-10-17 09:27 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: header25x2_smd_2mm footprint added http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/44ffe78
2010-10-17 09:41 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: reading through boom... just something to think about: for inventory, it might be a good idea to keep lots of the exact same components, acquired from different sources, separately
2010-10-17 09:41 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (edif) kinda like the fragmented Unix world before POSIX gave them a standard and Linux increased the pressure enormously
2010-10-17 09:42 <wolfspraul> this may not be part of the boom/shopping list problem, but I still wanted to mention it
2010-10-17 09:42 <wolfspraul> sometimes there is also something like -ES (engineering sample) where the vendor says:
2010-10-17 09:43 <wolfspraul> a) this component can only be acquired in low quantities as -es
2010-10-17 09:43 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: yes, mean same = same manufacturer but different distributor ?
2010-10-17 09:43 <wolfspraul> b) there may still be bugs, or maybe not, no guarantees
2010-10-17 09:43 <wpwrak> err .. s/yes,/you/
2010-10-17 09:43 <wpwrak> (was about to write something different, then changed course in mid-sentence :)
2010-10-17 09:44 <wolfspraul> yes different place you bought from
2010-10-17 09:44 <wolfspraul> if it's the same part from the same source, maybe it can always be lumped together? I haven't seen a reason yet where it would need to stay separate.
2010-10-17 09:44 <wolfspraul> some parts have requirements like "use within x days" though.
2010-10-17 09:44 <wpwrak> -es could just be a different part number. then you can say (or not) that foo equals foo-es well
2010-10-17 09:45 <wolfspraul> sure sure, your system is very flexible since it's spread out like a relational database
2010-10-17 09:45 <wolfspraul> I just wanted to write what went through my mind.
2010-10-17 09:45 <wolfspraul> so sometimes you have a sealed bag, and after opening you need to use the parts within 5 days
2010-10-17 09:45 <wolfspraul> probably no need to factor this in, but it can affect planning, sometimes
2010-10-17 09:46 <wolfspraul> sometimes you can re-seal the unused ones, but sometimes not, depends on your equipment too
2010-10-17 09:46 <wpwrak> (equalities) i don't have one-way equalities, though. e.g., some part that has the same footprint but a different package size. you could use the smaller package in a design for the larger but not vice versa
2010-10-17 09:47 <wolfspraul> then you sometimes have date codes, which you may or may not want to track or factor in
2010-10-17 09:47 <wpwrak> (best-before date) yes, that's something a factory inventory needs. not sure if this really ought to be part of boom, though
2010-10-17 09:47 <wolfspraul> agree
2010-10-17 09:47 <wolfspraul> we need to focus
2010-10-17 09:48 <wpwrak> (factory inv) e.g., the factory could simply generate an inventory with parts effectively available
2010-10-17 09:48 <wolfspraul> I want this thing to be able to serve as our shopping tool for our handful of designs asap
2010-10-17 09:49 <wpwrak> (track) i think the factory basically wants to track every item. when ordered, when arrived, who checked it, where was it stored, when was it taken out and by whom, how much was used, when did it go back, etc.
2010-10-17 09:49 <wolfspraul> so with datecodes, if you have older datecodes and newer datecodes, you may either first take the older ones (if it's your own inventory), or you may take the newer ones (if you are comparing two distributors you are buying from)
2010-10-17 09:49 <wolfspraul> well it depends
2010-10-17 09:49 <wolfspraul> there needs to be a business reason
2010-10-17 09:50 <wpwrak> for exmaple, you may get bad lots
2010-10-17 09:50 <wolfspraul> and things need to be re-evaluated too, no need to continue with some system that has long lost any connection to reality
2010-10-17 09:50 <wpwrak> "discard all cpus delivered from source X between dates Y and Z"
2010-10-17 09:50 <wolfspraul> then I read about the KiCad workflow a little more
2010-10-17 09:50 <wolfspraul> remember a while back we tried to identify original vs. generated files
2010-10-17 09:51 <wolfspraul> back then you said the netlist is generated, but you weren't entirely
2010-10-17 09:51 <wolfspraul> sure
2010-10-17 09:51 <wpwrak> you may also have processes that accidently damage parts. also, if you check things in and out, you have a semi-automatic record. better than people editing the "days left" field manually in the database :)
2010-10-17 09:51 <wolfspraul> so from reading some texts (haven't tried it), it looks like the netlist is first exported from eeschema, but when you start working with cvpcb, cvpcb adds new data to it
2010-10-17 09:51 <wpwrak> (netlist) yes. there's the issue of merging in the components (footprints)
2010-10-17 09:52 <wolfspraul> at that point you do have original data in the netlist
2010-10-17 09:52 <wpwrak> correct. and it writes its data to a .cmp file as well, for use when the netlist gets redone
2010-10-17 09:52 <wpwrak> you still have it in .cmp. but it's a mess anyway :)
2010-10-17 09:52 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-10-17 09:53 <wolfspraul> so when I delete the .net file, it can recreate it, but only if I first export it again from eeschema and pvpcb still has its .cmp file?
2010-10-17 09:53 <wolfspraul> I mean recreate without manual intervention
2010-10-17 09:53 <wpwrak> much like the "last application" field in the profile. each time you run anything, that silly field gets updated and with it the file timestamp. so you almost always have an uncommitted change in the profile. highly annoying
2010-10-17 09:54 <wpwrak> yes, that would be the process
2010-10-17 09:54 <wolfspraul> then the .net file including footprints is imported into pcbnew?
2010-10-17 09:55 <wpwrak> yup
2010-10-17 09:55 <wolfspraul> pcbnew will only read it once, then store the board data in its own files?
2010-10-17 09:55 <wpwrak> hmm. not sure. trying ...
2010-10-17 09:56 <wpwrak> yeah, remembers the netlist somewhere
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> or will pcbnew want to open the .net file w/ footprints every time you open the board?
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> ah sorry I should try myself...
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> I'm just reading through all this trying to make sense of it.
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> the KiCad bom file that boom starts with is coming from pcbnew? I can only see a .csv bom export there, is it that one?
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> hmm, OK
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> so the .net is really a 'transient' file, for all parties
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> like a hub
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> my client shows several minutes lag, not sure this gets through...
2010-10-17 09:59 <wolfspraul> another question - what is the workflow with fped? fped has a .fpd file, how does the .fpd file relate to the .cmp and .net files in the normal cvpcb process?
2010-10-17 10:00 <wolfspraul> is fped used before/after/instead of pcpcb?
2010-10-17 10:00 <wolfspraul> sorry pvpcb
2010-10-17 10:00 <wpwrak> (bom) comes from eeschema
2010-10-17 10:00 <wpwrak> (lag) it arrived in a big wave :)
2010-10-17 10:01 <wpwrak> fped generates .mod files, nothing to do with .cmp and .net
2010-10-17 10:02 <wpwrak> the netlist says how things connect electrically. cmp says which component (U1, R123, etc.) has which footprint (0603, 256BGA, etc.)
2010-10-17 10:03 <wpwrak> .mod files define the drawings on the various layers that make up the footprint. and it also defines where the pins/pads are located.
2010-10-17 10:04 <wpwrak> fped -k infile.fpd outfile.mod  converts from .fpd to .mod (or you can do it interactively with File>Write KiCad)
2010-10-17 10:04 <wpwrak> (waiting for your lag :)
2010-10-17 10:05 <wpwrak> ... or disconnect :)
2010-10-17 10:07 <wpwrak> ;-)
2010-10-17 10:07 <wpwrak> desperate means :)
2010-10-17 10:08 <wolfspra1l> not much better, oh well
2010-10-17 10:09 <wpwrak> i'll retransmit
2010-10-17 10:09 <wpwrak> (bom) comes from eeschema
2010-10-17 10:09 <wpwrak> (lag) it arrived in a big wave :)
2010-10-17 10:09 <wpwrak> fped generates .mod files, nothing to do with .cmp and .net
2010-10-17 10:09 <wpwrak> the netlist says how things connect electrically. cmp says which component (U1, R123, etc.) has which footprint (0603, 256BGA, etc.)
2010-10-17 10:09 <wolfspra1l> yes, didn't see it in the menus but I do see it as a toolbar icon now
2010-10-17 10:09 <wpwrak> .mod files define the drawings on the various layers that make up the footprint. and it also defines where the pins/pads are located.
2010-10-17 10:09 <wpwrak> fped -k infile.fpd outfile.mod  converts from .fpd to .mod (or you can do it interactively with File>Write KiCad)
2010-10-17 10:09 <wpwrak> (waiting for your lag :)
2010-10-17 10:09 <wpwrak> * wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2010-10-17 10:10 <wolfspra1l> do you leave the default settings in the bom export dialog in eeschema?
2010-10-17 10:10 <wpwrak> yes, i think i do
2010-10-17 10:11 <wolfspra1l> I have checked, by default: Components by reference, Components by value, Output format: List
2010-10-17 10:11 <wolfspra1l> everything else is unchecked
2010-10-17 10:11 <wpwrak> most important: footprint and all user-defined fields
2010-10-17 10:11 <wolfspra1l> unchecked or checked?
2010-10-17 10:12 <kristianpaul> wolfspra1l: hey
2010-10-17 10:12 <wpwrak> checked
2010-10-17 10:12 <kristianpaul> sorry replied in wrong channel
2010-10-17 10:12 <kristianpaul> wolfspra1l: (rename)  sure go ahead
2010-10-17 10:12 <wolfspra1l> oh
2010-10-17 10:12 <wolfspra1l> they are unchecked by default
2010-10-17 10:12 <wolfspra1l> you say they should all be checked?
2010-10-17 10:13 <wolfspra1l> Footprings, and All existing users fields?
2010-10-17 10:13 <wpwrak> ah, interesting. here they are checked. System Field: Footprint and Users Fields: All existing users fields
2010-10-17 10:13 <wolfspra1l> there is also a separate list of User Field 1..8, but I guess they are included in 'All existing users fields'
2010-10-17 10:14 <wpwrak> yup
2010-10-17 10:14 <wolfspra1l> I will try to switch to your bzr 2448 version asap, just haven't gotten to it yet
2010-10-17 10:15 <wolfspra1l> do you know that there is also a bom export in pcbnew?
2010-10-17 10:15 <wpwrak> (let's hope these settings are not some obscure per-user preferences. kicad has its defaults scattered over a bit too many places for my taste)
2010-10-17 10:15 <wpwrak> is there ?
2010-10-17 10:16 <wolfspra1l> yes File -> Fabrication Outputs -> BOM file
2010-10-17 10:16 <wolfspra1l> actually the one in (my) eeschema has no menu item, toolbar icon only, argh
2010-10-17 10:16 <wolfspra1l> I need to watch every little button and icon in KiCad
2010-10-17 10:17 <wpwrak> nice :) didn't know that one. naturally, the format is different as well ;-)
2010-10-17 10:17 <wolfspra1l> well
2010-10-17 10:17 <wolfspra1l> don't complain
2010-10-17 10:18 <wolfspra1l> if KiCad has an obsession with myriads of different file formats, I think boom is a strong contender
2010-10-17 10:18 <wpwrak> i'm doing my worst :)
2010-10-17 10:20 <wpwrak> alas, there are really tons of different things that go into BOM processing. i could hide a few, but only about 1-2
2010-10-17 10:20 <wolfspra1l> no no it's good
2010-10-17 10:20 <wolfspra1l> you try to keep separate things separate, let the computer do some work
2010-10-17 10:20 <wolfspra1l> it's good
2010-10-17 10:21 <wolfspra1l> kristianpaul: renamed, thanks
2010-10-17 10:23 <wolfspra1l> you could add storage costs (for inventory you already own), hey, even currency fluctuations! :-)
2010-10-17 10:23 <wolfspra1l> at some point the weather forecast will require less computational power than boom trying to squeeze out the last penny
2010-10-17 10:24 <wpwrak> yeah. all those n-dimensional optimization problems have very interesting computational complexity :)
2010-10-17 10:25 <wpwrak> (currency) boom keeps currencies apart. if you buy from digi-key and farnell, you get your shopping list with a total in USD and UKP. for deciding what's cheaper, i think i just compare the numbers :)
2010-10-17 10:26 <wolfspra1l> you can try xe.com maybe they have a nice API
2010-10-17 10:26 <wolfspra1l> :-)
2010-10-17 10:26 <wolfspra1l> if you like
2010-10-17 10:26 <wolfspra1l> about EDIF - so it's totally dead for our purposes?
2010-10-17 10:27 <wolfspra1l> I saw the syntax having a lot of parentheses, and you mentioned a new KiCad format would be lisp-like...
2010-10-17 10:27 <wolfspra1l> does KiCad support any edif import or export?
2010-10-17 10:27 <wolfspra1l> or can I just totally forget about EDIF?
2010-10-17 10:27 <wpwrak> (edif) the format kicad will migrate to looks similar. but i think many of the ideas are based on some other proprietary format. at least for the board files.
2010-10-17 10:28 <wpwrak> components (symbols) may be new semantics, also in a lisp-ish syntax. so in a very indirect way, there may be an EDIF influence
2010-10-17 10:29 <wpwrak> but i'll be kicad-"openly proprietary" in the end
2010-10-17 10:30 <wpwrak> (xe.com) i'll pass :) if you crave perfection, you also need the exchange rate that gets applied to you, not some interbank rate :)
2010-10-17 10:31 <wolfspra1l> you mean "it'll be openly proprietary" or "I'll be openly proprietary"?
2010-10-17 10:31 <wolfspra1l> well I would assume the format will be all open, no? you mean they borrowed some ideas from a proprietary format?
2010-10-17 10:32 <wpwrak> "it'll" :)
2010-10-17 10:32 <wpwrak> it'll be proprietary in the sense that it's defined via a product (kicad)
2010-10-17 10:33 <wpwrak> i'll be open in the sense that you can of course find out how it works. there will also be documentation.
2010-10-17 10:34 <wolfspra1l> the one they have now is not kicad-specific?
2010-10-17 10:34 <wolfspra1l> or you just mention the 'proprietary' aspect because I mentioned EDIF?
2010-10-17 10:34 <wpwrak> the current one is of course VERY kicad-specific :)
2010-10-17 10:35 <wpwrak> (prop vs. edif) yup
2010-10-17 10:38 <wolfspra1l> k logging out for the day
2010-10-17 10:38 <wolfspra1l> n8
2010-10-17 10:38 <wpwrak> cya
2010-10-17 11:35 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: 1. GPIO connector changed from 2.54mm to 2.0mm pitch http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/609a4fc
2010-10-17 12:31 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: Routing from the FTDI chip to the AVR Tiny http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/5e9b8d3
2010-10-17 13:01 <qi-bot> [commit] Andres Calderon: AVR to FTDI conections has been routed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/c3daabb
2010-10-17 14:52 <kristoffer_> wpwrak, you dont happen to know the difference between the different bitblitting operations?
2010-10-17 14:57 <wpwrak> kristoffer_: oh, i don't even know where to look for different bitblitting ops :)
2010-10-17 14:58 <kristoffer_> wpwrak, nevermind I think I understand now :)
2010-10-17 14:58 <wpwrak> kristoffer_: but if it's something in some data sheet (?), perhaps i could help with interpreting it
2010-10-17 14:58 <wpwrak> (understand) even better ! :)
2010-10-17 15:04 <kristoffer_> wpwrak, I was trying to figure out the difference between copyarea vs imageblit, but think I got it :) Havent worked on the driver in a year and its always weird looking at the docs again
2010-10-17 17:08 <qi-bot> [commit] Juan64Bits: Routing FTDI http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/afff77e
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added sanity check for characteristics and corrected omissions/errors found. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/bf2e9f2
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added AVX general-purpose ceramic SMT capacitors, "no series" http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/d816e82
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: dist/dk/Makefile (count): new target to count the number of parts we have http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/1f52cc9
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added Johanson general-purpose ceramic SMT capacitors. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/f0df994
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added Johanson RF capacitors. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/94de4f9
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: test.sub now better catches typos and supports more capacitor parameters. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/d31ede8
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: boom/mbq2lst: recognize #END comment (as end of file, like in the BOOM parser) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/b552026
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added more detailed part counting. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/36048db
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Introduce temperature coefficients for resistors. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/5c6ffda
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added Stackpole RNCP series of low TC resistors. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/03e1fde
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added Yageo RT series of precision chip resistors. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/ba9a79e
2010-10-17 17:29 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: For consistency, renamed captol.inc to ctol.inc. Rs now use rtol.inc instead of http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/6ce7ea1
2010-10-17 19:49 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Separate the test from the boom/ top-level directory. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/61bfa83
2010-10-17 19:49 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: more http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/281dda5
2010-10-17 19:49 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Generate script boom-config that lists all the database paths, like pkg-config http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/0a86c10
2010-10-17 19:49 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: It's now easy to get a list all the files, so we don't need dist/all.* anymore. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/41ae009
2010-10-17 19:49 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Make boom-config complain about usage errors. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/9e9eb89
2010-10-17 19:49 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: eda-tools now has all the R and C we need here. Removed local database. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/265ba07
2010-10-17 19:49 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Use prettyord -t plus a tiny bit of shell to do what SHOW_PRETTY did. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/2dec646
2010-10-17 21:17 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: feedback about boom/README (svn om location): in line, it says "reference number" but in most other places it says "part-number", if that's what you mean here
2010-10-17 21:17 <wolfspraul> sorry line 262
2010-10-17 21:18 <wolfspraul> also it first says "supplier" and then (namespace), everywhere else it just says "namespace" which is explained earlier.
2010-10-17 21:18 <wolfspraul> but why is it reference number and not part-number?
2010-10-17 21:25 <wpwrak> just a small inconsistency :)
2010-10-17 21:26 <wpwrak> the key here is that each item is identified by the name of the name space plus the name in that name space. kinda like directory/file
2010-10-17 21:28 <wolfspraul> sure, I did get it, but since all other places say 'namespace part-number' group, I guess it shouldn't be 'reference number' here
2010-10-17 21:28 <wolfspraul> unless you fell at that point whoever is actually reading this should be subjected to a little confidence test
2010-10-17 21:30 <wpwrak> as i said, an inconsistency. not one that'll live much longer :)
2010-10-17 21:30 <wolfspraul> the documentation is great, no worries
2010-10-17 21:30 <wolfspraul> I've seen much worse
2010-10-17 21:31 <wolfspraul> it's actually possible to read through the and get a good start - nice
2010-10-17 21:31 <wolfspraul> some of those perl scripts are quite complex
2010-10-17 21:32 <wolfspraul> I hope that there will be little need to modify them, in other words that they are properly abstracted from 'simpler' concepts like stock levels, costs, etc.
2010-10-17 21:32 <wolfspraul> I think they are, so that's good.
2010-10-17 21:33 <wolfspraul> if every little stock inconsistency or the inevitable unforeseen/manual intervention will force someone to go into those complex perl scripts, then the system as a whole will become unusable
2010-10-17 21:33 <wolfspraul> of course you know that already, just my feedback after starting to read...
2010-10-17 21:34 <wolfspraul> I remember when I watched gta02-core from the distance I saw you working on this bom stuff and I thought now you are completely nuts.
2010-10-17 21:34 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-10-17 21:34 <wolfspraul> but alas, I was wrong
2010-10-17 21:36 <wpwrak> (nasty perl) don't worry, all those perl scripts are doomed. the algorithms will get a lot more complex and things need to get more efficient. so all this will have to become C. well, except some external interfaces, digi-key catalog queries and such. they can be in any language.
2010-10-17 21:36 <wpwrak> (though there are performance issues as well - the way i currently cache queries has a O(n^2) rebuild-from-cache complexity. not nice.)
2010-10-17 21:37 <wpwrak> (nuts) heh ;-)
2010-10-17 21:37 <wolfspraul> I didn't know you were that familiar with Perl.
2010-10-17 21:37 <wolfspraul> I mean that's a level where the casual copy/paste approach to 100 different scripting languages won't work anymore.
2010-10-17 21:38 <wpwrak> there's a fair amount of "new" perl i used there. for the nested data structures.
2010-10-17 21:39 <wpwrak> otherwise, it would have been completely unmanageable
2010-10-17 21:40 <wpwrak> (copy&paste) naw, the core needs a real language. also the parser for .sub files is quite marginal. full of hacks to keep it from falling over.
2010-10-17 21:40 <wpwrak> and it does get confused in some cases. luckily, so far not confused enough to cause real trouble :)
2010-10-17 21:41 <wpwrak> anyway, that's really a job for lex and yacc.
2010-10-17 21:43 <wpwrak> README fixed. thanks !
2010-10-17 23:39 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: is the format you expect to get from the kicad bom (.lst file) documented anywhere?
2010-10-17 23:39 <wolfspraul> for example do you assume that each reference is unique?
2010-10-17 23:44 <wolfspraul> yesterday I told you by default I have both 'components by reference' as well as 'components by value' checked by default
2010-10-17 23:44 <wolfspraul> that creates 2 lists, just after each other
2010-10-17 23:44 <wolfspraul> do you need the 'components by value' list? or should that in fact be unchecked?
2010-10-17 23:46 <wolfspraul> and since we are at it - the checkbox "Sub components" is unchecked by default for me, I guess that is right...
2010-10-17 23:54 <wolfspraul> what are the reasons for not using the .csv bom that comes out of pcbnew (other than you not being aware of it and having implemented the parsing for .lst already)
2010-10-17 23:54 <wolfspraul> the good about the .csv out of pcbnew is that there is no dialog, i.e. less things to do wrong
2010-10-17 23:55 <wolfspraul> I don't like that Quantity field, seems redundant to the comma separated Designator field (I'm talking about the columns in the .csv bom)
2010-10-17 23:55 <wolfspraul> other than that it looks like the .csv also has all data boom needs?