2010-10-15 00:44 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: http://lwn.net/Articles/409965/
2010-10-15 00:44 <wolfspraul> the comments are encouraging, encouraging to see how many people think themselves and see the exact same weirdness we discussed earlier
2010-10-15 00:45 <wolfspraul> we are on the right track...
2010-10-15 00:45 <wolfspraul> "So a tivo that required you to send it in to the factory to change the linux install on it would not require you to provide the linux source code?"
2010-10-15 00:46 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-10-15 00:49 <wolfspraul> "So is the FSF the "Free high-level software foundation" now?"
2010-10-15 00:49 <wolfspraul> "It definitely looks to me as if they're applying different standards to different kinds of software, without good reason."
2010-10-15 00:49 <wolfspraul> and so on
2010-10-15 01:43 <wolfspraul> I'm thinking about moving ben-wpan and the sige gps work to the 12/1 community news
2010-10-15 01:43 <wolfspraul> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2010-11-01
2010-10-15 01:44 <wolfspraul> 11/1 is overloaded and those two should still be very much fresh and new one month later
2010-10-15 01:44 <wolfspraul> if there are objections, let me know...
2010-10-15 01:44 <wpwrak> fine with me. though i still think you could conveniently make a 11/18 and still have material for 12/1 :)
2010-10-15 01:45 <wpwrak> err .. 10/18 and 11/1, of course
2010-10-15 01:47 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: quick question about Ornotermes work and the ben-blinkenlights KiCad project
2010-10-15 01:48 <wolfspraul> which was first? how do they relate to each other?
2010-10-15 01:48 <wolfspraul> Ornoterms has an illustrated diy-guide with great pictures he took himself
2010-10-15 01:48 <wolfspraul> that much is clear
2010-10-15 01:48 <wolfspraul> David used the software in ben-blinkenlights in the video he uploaded
2010-10-15 01:49 <wolfspraul> that's also clear
2010-10-15 01:49 <wolfspraul> (I think)
2010-10-15 01:49 <wolfspraul> but what about the KiCad files in ben-blinkenlights? they were just added as documentation? is there a layout too?
2010-10-15 01:49 <wpwrak> Ornitermes was first with idea and design
2010-10-15 01:49 <wolfspraul> (not that there is much to layout, I'm just trying to credit people correctly)
2010-10-15 01:50 <wpwrak> i then redid everything in kicad and had the first things actually running :)
2010-10-15 01:50 <wpwrak> layout: you mean bbl.brd ?
2010-10-15 01:51 <wolfspraul> so is this accurate: Ornotermes and Werner built an SDIO breakout board, Ornoterms published a great illustrated DIY guide, and Werner uploaded KiCad files and demo software to the projects server.
2010-10-15 01:52 <wolfspraul> maybe I'll shorten a bit but are the facts accurate?
2010-10-15 01:52 <wolfspraul> 'SDIO breakout cable' is better maybe...
2010-10-15 01:53 <wpwrak> hmm s/uploaded/made/
2010-10-15 01:53 <wpwrak> i did just the blinkenlights board (and then reused the design in atusd)
2010-10-15 01:54 <wpwrak> Ornotermes made a breakout cable
2010-10-15 01:54 <wpwrak> i would also give him (solo) credit for the idea
2010-10-15 01:55 <wpwrak> e.g., something like: Ornotermes had the idea to use the uSD slot for a breakout board. he and werner then built [...]
2010-10-15 01:59 <wolfspraul> great, thanks
2010-10-15 04:38 <qwebirc10130> i am writing one routine to accept some input from the user using getch()
2010-10-15 04:38 <qwebirc10130> but i need to allow backspace key also in it
2010-10-15 04:39 <qwebirc10130> how can I do it , plz help
2010-10-15 04:52 <kyak> i think you need to use readline library, but i might be mistaken
2010-10-15 05:16 <qwebirc10130> anybody who can answer my query
2010-10-15 05:36 <xiangfu> qwebirc10130: why your getch() cann't get the KEY_BACKSPACE ?, it's should read KEY_BACKSPACE as well.
2010-10-15 07:02 <qwebirc10130> hi xiangfu
2010-10-15 07:03 <qwebirc10130> getch() doesnt work in linux
2010-10-15 07:03 <qwebirc10130> s i have used getchar with some terminal settings
2010-10-15 07:06 <kristianpaul> "if I have to spend an hour using the computer to change the code that is OK, but if I have to spend ten minutes using the soldering iron to achieve the same goal, that's not OK." he
2010-10-15 07:09 <kristianpaul> Well solder not soo much but at least you he should be able to plug  JTAG cable or soemthing, wich came to the point of the "hiden" sofware in lockware
2010-10-15 07:14 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: and the guy before that is even wrong.
2010-10-15 07:15 <wolfspraul> he thinks if you have to send it back to the factory, where the factory uses its secret software for updates, that's not what the fsf has in mind.
2010-10-15 07:15 <wolfspraul> but unfortunately, and sadly, that is in fact what the fsf has in mind.
2010-10-15 07:17 <wolfspraul> this will only get worse the more the fsf talks about it, so let's hope this whole endorsement program dies a silent death :-) for our all good.
2010-10-15 07:17 <wolfspraul> otherwise the fsf will ruin some of their hard earned reputation, that's all.
2010-10-15 07:30 <methril_work> morning
2010-10-15 10:45 <qbject> Morning, all./
2010-10-15 10:45 <mstevens> yo
2010-10-15 13:10 <djbclark> qbject: getting batteries China -> US is often hard - but that is a good point, I should ask appropriate people about that, will make a note, thanks!
2010-10-15 13:11 <djbclark> and wolfspraul seem to be on 180 degree different scheduled :-(
2010-10-15 13:11 <wpwrak> djbclark: hard due to the chinese paperwork, or are there other issues ?
2010-10-15 13:12 <djbclark> wpwrak: due to shipping companies not wanting to ship large concentrations of things that could explode a lot. But maybe I'm being silly... Do you remember what type of battery chemistry is in nanonote batteries?
2010-10-15 13:14 <wpwrak> djbclark: ah yes, shipping companies may have a word there as well. dunno the chemistry but anything reasonably compact and modern is of the "dangerous" kind
2010-10-15 13:16 <djbclark> wpwrak: I recall the Ben Nanonote battery was semi-standard however, so maybe could find US suppier. Or there is sketch remailr in China I can use (but they do not guarantee things will get through).
2010-10-15 13:16 <wpwrak> djbclark: found one. says "li-ion".
2010-10-15 13:17 <wpwrak> djbclark: this may help: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Compatible_batteries
2010-10-15 13:19 <djbclark> wpwrak: yeah that is what I was thinking of. But currently just trying to get to place where we have Ben Nanonote available from freedomincluded.com :-)
2010-10-15 13:20 <wpwrak> sure. one step after another :)
2010-10-15 13:24 <qbject> djbclark: Thanks for looking into it. Looking forward to getting my BNN #2 from you once they're available.
2010-10-15 13:25 <kyak> second Ben? are you going to build a Ben-based supercomputer? :)
2010-10-15 13:25 <qbject> someday, perhaps. :)
2010-10-15 13:26 <kyak> i have special plans for Ben when Ya gets out
2010-10-15 13:26 <kyak> but not before that :)
2010-10-15 13:26 <qbject> For now I'm both very attached to having one that works, and very interested in tearing one apart to start designing new housings.
2010-10-15 13:27 <kyak> wow.. great plans
2010-10-15 13:27 <djbclark> qbject: If you like really really want one now I can set up for payment, but it'd come either with a really-alpha LibreWRT or whatever came on it.
2010-10-15 13:27 <djbclark> qbject: Oh, so you'd prefer a broken one? I think someone mentioned having one of those they were willing to donate on the list a while back.
2010-10-15 13:28 <qbject> djbclark: Thanks, but I'm still working on getting my milling machine shipped across the country, so I'm not ready just yet.
2010-10-15 13:28 <djbclark> qbject: k, ping me when you are :)
2010-10-15 13:28 <qbject> Hmm. I'll check the logs. Might be useful...
2010-10-15 13:29 <djbclark> qbject: or if not, just ask on the lists, I'm sure someone has managed to drop one from 10' up onto concrete or something by now!
2010-10-15 13:29 <djbclark> qbject: Also Sharism might just have rejects that never workd.
2010-10-15 13:32 <qbject> djbclark: Thanks for that thought. I've been missing wolfie pretty effectively myself, but I'll chat him up about it if I ever get the chance.
2010-10-15 13:33 <djbclark> owes him several emails... if only fires would stay put out :-D
2010-10-15 14:01 <qi-bot> [commit] Carlos Camargo: Fixing cai9n loader for lm32 errors http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/43de1a5
2010-10-15 15:01 <kyak> trying to figure out.. why the history is saved to /.ash_history when i'm logged to Ben directly and to ~/.ash_history when i'm logged in via ssh
2010-10-15 15:03 <xdpirate> yo, anyone got the link to the newest bootloader/kernel/userland?
2010-10-15 15:03 <xdpirate> the openwrt one
2010-10-15 15:05 <kyak> xdpirate: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Official_Software_Image#Image_2010-08-15_(testing)
2010-10-15 15:06 <wpwrak> kyak: perhaps someone's not setting HOME ?
2010-10-15 15:06 <xdpirate> kyak, thanks
2010-10-15 15:06 <kyak> there's even this one http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/testing/2010-09-14/
2010-10-15 15:06 <kyak> more recent
2010-10-15 15:07 <kyak> wpwrak: i'm cross-checking the "env" output from ssh and tty, the only difference is "SHELL"
2010-10-15 15:07 <xdpirate> sweet
2010-10-15 15:07 <kyak> in case of ssh, it is /bin/ash, in case of tty it is /bin/sh for some reason
2010-10-15 15:08 <kyak> the HOME is the same, though after loging to tty the PWD is set to /
2010-10-15 15:08 <kyak> so this is all really strange to me
2010-10-15 15:09 <kyak> it looks to me that PWD is inherited from parent process
2010-10-15 15:09 <kyak> in case of ssh it is dropbear
2010-10-15 15:09 <kyak> while in case of tty it is init
2010-10-15 15:09 <kyak> something is really wrong here
2010-10-15 15:17 <kyak> ok, problem solved.. i saw there is a HISTFILE env var
2010-10-15 15:18 <kyak> so i just set it profile
2010-10-15 15:21 <kyak> anyway it is a bug in busybox, it checks the HOME variable before reading /etc/profile
2010-10-15 15:49 <wpwrak> kyak: gotta love all those little busybox quirks :)
2010-10-15 17:02 <qbject> Jeez. How long does it take to recharge a BNN from dead-flat?
2010-10-15 17:09 <qbject> Ah, it must've cycled on when I pulled the battery to see if it was frozen. All better.
2010-10-15 17:19 <xdpirate> is it possible to change fonts on the fly in the newest version?
2010-10-15 17:26 <xdpirate> nevermind, got it :)
2010-10-15 17:40 <xdpirate> do we have gcc in openwrt yet? been away for a couple of months
2010-10-15 23:05 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Catalog listing and enhanced versions of various BOOM items from ben-wpan/bom. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/c1574ce
2010-10-15 23:05 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: you'll like this. i've added a new file type to BOOM. it's even a four-letter one, .catq for catalog queries.
2010-10-15 23:08 <wolfspraul> does the system support minimum order amounts for each source?
2010-10-15 23:08 <wolfspraul> say "500 USD minimum" when ordering from ABC
2010-10-15 23:08 <wpwrak> no, it doesn't know per-source characteristics at all
2010-10-15 23:08 <wpwrak> e.g., shipping cost or such
2010-10-15 23:09 <wolfspraul> maybe a chance to introduce a few more extensions?
2010-10-15 23:09 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-10-15 23:09 <wpwrak> i'll worry about this a bit later :)
2010-10-15 23:09 <wolfspraul> yes good
2010-10-15 23:09 <wolfspraul> just came to my mind thinking about it
2010-10-15 23:09 <wpwrak> right now, i'm populating the catalog. just wrote part number decoders for the most common resistors from stackpole and panasonic. about 6000 in total.
2010-10-15 23:10 <wolfspraul> oh!
2010-10-15 23:10 <wpwrak> a little more efficient than hand-picking those things :)
2010-10-15 23:11 <wpwrak> now i'm hammering digi-key with 5000 inventory queries, for the panasonic parts ...
2010-10-15 23:35 <kristianpaul> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/intel-hdminsult
2010-10-15 23:36 <kristianpaul> *gamble*
2010-10-15 23:41 <wpwrak> no surprise with that HDMI thing. after all the work that went into it :)
2010-10-15 23:41 <wpwrak> (mainly at the customer complaints departments, i imagine. due to the incompatibilities)