2010-10-12 00:00 http://www.sige.com/products/gps/details.html 2010-10-12 00:00 after some back and forth, we decided to start with a SiGe 4162 new IC which is not listed there yet 2010-10-12 00:01 they sent us an EVB, which kristianpaul has now and tries to get GPS coordinates out of it :-) 2010-10-12 00:01 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/GPS_Open_Stack 2010-10-12 00:02 the status of free software in this is probably not great, but not hopeless either I think 2010-10-12 00:02 there seem to be quite a few scattered projects already 2010-10-12 00:02 on Wi-Fi (sige also has chips that atheros and others are using), we decided there is 'too much' between the ICs SiGe offers and what you buy from Atheros, for us to undertake it 2010-10-12 00:02 true. but none were even on the level of sirf3 last time i checked. that was what demotivated me to think about a attempt which does have no 'proper working fw' yet 2010-10-12 00:02 so the second project in that direction is the 802.15.4 project wpwrak is doing, called ben-wpan 2010-10-12 00:03 well we work on that 2010-10-12 00:03 you can watch it here... 2010-10-12 00:03 :-) 2010-10-12 00:03 that ive seen. am quite interrested about the results (ben-wpan) 2010-10-12 00:03 great 2010-10-12 00:03 you should also start to become interested in the SiGe 'driver' project 2010-10-12 00:03 :-) 2010-10-12 00:03 but yeah it's a lot of work 2010-10-12 00:03 basically that would really replace all of what u-blox does 2010-10-12 00:04 and u-blox worked hard on this, for many years 2010-10-12 00:04 wolfspraul is there and proper working sw for the SiGe yet? 2010-10-12 00:04 like gllin? 2010-10-12 00:04 the founders came out of college with this project, and started the company 2010-10-12 00:04 roh: you need to ask kristianpaul 2010-10-12 00:04 (well.. working, not so poor like gllin) 2010-10-12 00:04 (he is sleeping right now I think) 2010-10-12 00:04 just thinking. its cool to pursue that, of course 2010-10-12 00:05 we are not trying to get u-blox binary blobs to work, I think that would be a lot of work and it's easier to just go straight to the source, collect the raw data samples, and decode them 2010-10-12 00:05 I'd say let's give it 6 months and then see where it stands. 2010-10-12 00:05 kristianpaul only got the SiGe EVB 2 weeks ago or so 2010-10-12 00:05 but i wouldnt start building such hw and doing business with a non-dual way like i explained in the beginning. simply because that would to 'openmoko repeating' business-wise 2010-10-12 00:06 wolfspraul i dont mean 'try use ublox binaries'. but replicate the performance 2010-10-12 00:07 that will take some more work than one person for half a year. in the end, thats where ublox also gets its money made from 2010-10-12 00:08 roh: i think the processing unit is the least of your concerns. what's important is the RF side and the algorithms 2010-10-12 00:08 I've seen the testing that u-blox does on their software GPS... it's the most advanced automated test setup I ever saw 2010-10-12 00:08 and afaik they worked on it for many years, not months 2010-10-12 00:08 wpwrak ack. but the algorithms is the costly part 2010-10-12 00:09 mth: and this is also the stuff they'll never open. so tracking u-blox wouldn't help us much. 2010-10-12 00:09 the rf side is why i'd like to see some working binarie before trusting sige 2010-10-12 00:10 I mean that 6 months will get you nowhere near the same level that they are 2010-10-12 00:10 it might get you at a useful level though; I don't know the material that well 2010-10-12 00:11 its a nice research project anyhow ;) 2010-10-12 00:11 something to thumb-up for sure. 2010-10-12 00:12 mth: i think it would be a success already if the thing can decode anything. that would allow to validate most of the hardware. you can probably analyze rf performance without even decoding anything. 2010-10-12 00:12 just dont expect it works in 6-12month to be sold 2010-10-12 00:12 mth: after that, it's all software. and we're used to software maturing with time :) 2010-10-12 00:13 wpwrak: yes, by all means have a go at it 2010-10-12 00:13 just don't expect results too soon 2010-10-12 00:14 we'll have to ask kristianpaul about the schedule :) 2010-10-12 00:14 does qi-hw have access to a vector-signal-generator which can do rf up to ~1.5ghz? 2010-10-12 00:15 that would be helpful for whoever does the hw validation for sure. 2010-10-12 00:15 roh: does my usrp2 count ? 2010-10-12 00:15 nope. 2010-10-12 00:15 grr :) 2010-10-12 00:15 something with a calibration-seal and a true decibel scale ;) 2010-10-12 00:16 calibration is indeed the weak spot ... 2010-10-12 00:27 mth: correct, I can totally see that they invest in a (closed of course) automated test system 2010-10-12 00:27 because it's a software company 2010-10-12 00:27 if we do this, the automated test system will be gpl as well 2010-10-12 00:29 I think we are all on the same page about 'realistic schedule' 2010-10-12 00:31 roh: trusting sige? you are already trusting it if you use (some) u-blox products 2010-10-12 00:31 oh? didnt know that 2010-10-12 00:31 thats in their favour then, of course 2010-10-12 00:31 the last thing I would worry about in our projet is sige. maybe if we become successful there could be pressure from other sige customers, but that's very hypothetical and I don't worry about that now. 2010-10-12 00:32 roh: well, strange I thought I explained it above 2010-10-12 00:32 sige is an established company in RF ICs 2010-10-12 00:33 companies like u-blox use such vendors to build their software on 2010-10-12 00:33 and so do we now, at least we try 2010-10-12 00:34 wolfspraul now i am confused.. 'such vendors' for sure. but which products of ublox use sige products, and which ones? 2010-10-12 00:35 I don't know for sure, but I don't think u-blox has any RF competence, and I am not sure whether they want to build it up. 2010-10-12 00:35 I think they try to stay out of manufacturing, and out of RF. Could be wrong about the RF or they try different things, not sure. 2010-10-12 00:35 another similar company like sige would be www.maxim-ic.com 2010-10-12 00:35 you are sure about rf competence? 2010-10-12 00:36 i thought they must have atleast some good people there going from what results i see 2010-10-12 00:36 bad hw and good sw doesnt make a good performance either 2010-10-12 00:36 ahh, well I talk about business model. what is your differentiator. what are you good at. what do you outsource. 2010-10-12 00:36 regardless if they bought the frontend or just used it right and put it on some proper layouted board 2010-10-12 00:37 if someone sells you something great that doesn't mean they also developed it. maybe they just marketed it, etc. 2010-10-12 00:37 lots of stuff one can do wrong when frequencies are above a few mhz 2010-10-12 00:37 checkout sige.com, checkout maxim-ic.com 2010-10-12 00:37 if I find more I'll let you know 2010-10-12 00:37 I think u-blox is the wrong starting point 2010-10-12 00:37 true. but there are only frontends. how do they do their 'packages'? 2010-10-12 00:37 in all fairness to them, it's a great business and all, but free software? no way. 2010-10-12 00:38 is all the arm, etc in there just a multi-chip-package with external sourced dies? 2010-10-12 00:38 you mean u-blox's? I don't know. 2010-10-12 00:38 I have moved on. 2010-10-12 00:38 I am not closely following u-blox anymore. 2010-10-12 00:39 I think they are focusing on software, for sure. what software exactly I don't know. 2010-10-12 00:39 that's also a big area and you might want to license some things, do others yourself, focus your marketing on this or that area, etc. 2010-10-12 00:41 I hope that sige will support us even if they understand that everything we do will be free software. 2010-10-12 00:41 I need to visit them (already agreed to but haven't found the time yet). 2010-10-12 00:49 looking forward to your report about it :) 2010-10-12 01:19 wpwrak: I think the schematics changes are automatically picked up... 2010-10-12 01:19 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/nn-usb-fpga/ 2010-10-12 01:19 last one is October 9, that must have been fully automatic already 2010-10-12 01:19 I noticed that the '16 minutes ago' is relative to whenever that script ran, it's not accurate relative to the person looking at this in a browser 2010-10-12 03:16 guys, are there instructions about how to build the latest kernel? any patches, what else? 2010-10-12 03:19 (the idea is to compile the kernel natively on Ben) 2010-10-12 03:33 kyak: if you want to replicate the currently running uImages, I'd say you start from the openwrt patches. otherwise you can start with kernel.org 2.6.37-rc7 and see how far you get in booting. I doubt it will come up though, not all drivers are there yet. 2010-10-12 03:39 yes, i'd like to start with the latest kernel 2010-10-12 03:39 the currently running i already have :) 2010-10-12 03:40 so it seems like a lot of job.. porting all these openwrt patches to the latest kernel 2010-10-12 03:40 including drivers 2010-10-12 03:40 which one are you running now? 2010-10-12 03:41 you don't need to port 'all' patches, I'm sure. Lars got a large part of the XBurst stuff into 2.6.36. 2010-10-12 03:41 just not everything, so if you try to compile a vanilla kernel you will run into the missing parts. larsc knows most about it, I am just giving you my best guess. 2010-10-12 03:48 i'm running the 2.6.32.16 from openwrt, so it makes no sense to try and build it on Ben 2010-10-12 03:48 ok, i got your point 2010-10-12 03:49 i'm just trying to understand where to start 2010-10-12 03:49 i got 2.6.37-rc7 on my desktop, and don't see anything similar to qi/xburst or whatever in make menuconfig 2010-10-12 03:50 how should i select a target? there is something else in CPu family 2010-10-12 03:52 hmm, no I also don't know how to configure it. if I run a find . -iname '*4740*' in the 2.6.36-rc7 tree, I do find a lot of files though, so it's definitely there 2010-10-12 03:52 maybe under mips 2010-10-12 03:53 I think if you really try to get 2.6.36-rc7 to boot on your Ben, you should wait until you get some advice from Lars. otherwise you may waste a lot of time. 2010-10-12 03:53 I've heard numbers like "90% should be there" or so. 2010-10-12 03:53 but for sure you cannot just make install modules_install && reboot 2010-10-12 03:54 then I don't know whether there are OpenWrt-specific patches you might need, if you want to use this kernel to boot from an OpenWrt generated rootfs 2010-10-12 03:54 that's a separate question I also cannot answer :-) 2010-10-12 03:55 ok... thanks for the hints 2010-10-12 03:58 wolfspraul: btw, i noticed there is a "make yesoldconfig", which might be just what we need instead of yes "" | make oldconfig > /dev/null 2010-10-12 03:58 need to try 2010-10-12 04:26 oh really? 2010-10-12 04:26 will check 2010-10-12 04:27 in Linux it's called silentoldconfig, so maybe I only looked for that 2010-10-12 04:31 oh, yes, i'm talking about linux config, maybe that yesoldconfig is not even in openwrt.. 2010-10-12 04:48 wolfspraul: (relative date) hmm yes, that's relative to the time the index.html was generated. there's no good way to implement this correctly. i guess i'll remove it then. 2010-10-12 04:50 I was unable to resist a few more patent mails :-) 2010-10-12 04:50 such a drag 2010-10-12 04:52 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Removed relative date in commit entries. http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/e7f8445 2010-10-12 05:41 B_Lizzard: hi! 2010-10-12 05:41 how are your efforts for nupdf doing? :) 2010-10-12 05:42 The API does not completely match 2010-10-12 05:42 Some functions were renamed, others were removed, their functionality moved elsewhere 2010-10-12 05:42 Still working on it 2010-10-12 05:43 sounds likes a lot of work 2010-10-12 05:43 mupdf developers could've treated their users better 2010-10-12 05:49 Well, my only gripe is the lack of documentation 2010-10-12 06:28 wolfspraul: have you seen the fedora forbiden items links? 2010-10-12 06:30 I saw it, but not read it 2010-10-12 06:30 I'm sure they have good stuff there, so I will definitely read it 2010-10-12 06:30 my passion for legal stuff is limited 2010-10-12 06:30 life is short 2010-10-12 06:30 :D 2010-10-12 06:30 forbidden items? and you want me to read that? 2010-10-12 06:31 come on! :-) 2010-10-12 06:31 roh: not yet 2010-10-12 06:32 wpwrak: yup i need put a schdulle on the wiki 2010-10-12 06:32 schedule 2010-10-12 06:33 sadly this weekend i cant work on the hardware side of the board bcae i have a meeting in a town two hours away by ground, 2010-10-12 06:33 but i think i'll make the first contact with the data next week 2010-10-12 06:35 i wish early but i dont have some expensive tools at home to take some measures before break soemthing, so i asked a profesor in the local public university to let me use their labs he said yes, but i', not in town in weeks days, so i'll ask for a some free days next weeks to workon it 2010-10-12 06:37 kristianpaul: wow fantastic! 2010-10-12 06:37 say thanks to that prof from the Qi community :-) 2010-10-12 06:38 can you add the name of college and prof to the Community News? I think such information is interesting and valuable. 2010-10-12 06:38 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2010-11-01 2010-10-12 06:38 just dump is here somewhere, I'll make it prettier later 2010-10-12 06:40 also mention which equipment exactly he gives you access to, one line is enough 2010-10-12 06:40 roh: performance is clue, i'm more worried about that part besides data acquisition in wich i work right now 2010-10-12 06:41 roh: that allow me to get a big dump of trusty binaty data so in can upload somwhere for other hack on 2010-10-12 06:42 roh: Ben is not so powerfull,, may be?? (remenber SIMD is not been explored so depth) so lets see if we stikc to off line correlation or a free correlation damenos for the ben.. 2010-10-12 06:42 so far there is a free sofware projects that beat ubox software i think 2010-10-12 06:43 is called gpd-sdr (note all this is already documented on the wiki page) 2010-10-12 06:44 it worked with a  PRIMO board, wich uses a maxin chip, _BUT_ was proven to work to with a demotration board (that just let capture 30s of data !!) is from SiGE to similar chip 2010-10-12 06:44 so we're not so far 2010-10-12 06:44 the clue for now is data aquisition 2010-10-12 06:45 it may sound simple (wich in fact it is) but i just want make sure get data in right way (thats way i'd had been bugging about scopmeter equipment this days) 2010-10-12 06:46 also i may need a CPLD (wich i have) to implement a three stare buffer to avoid some anoyiance in the future 2010-10-12 06:46 what stop me? well i jus orderded the JTAG cable some days ago, i think it will take some other days to arrive 2010-10-12 06:47 what i'm doing now? I'll debug all data output from the SiGE EVB, (as the manual that came with it recomend) 2010-10-12 06:52 s/so we're not so far/so we're not so away 2010-10-12 06:54 the missing part is the aquisition data 2010-10-12 06:54 then move to something like this http://www.gps-sdr.com/wiki/gps-sdr/Architecture maybe in the nanonote to try first 2010-10-12 06:58 roh: all this is new for me (in some manner) so if you have recomendation i really will apreciate 2010-10-12 07:02 ok i must leave now (travel to work) 2010-10-12 07:02 see ya i some hrs 2010-10-12 07:08 wpwrak: i added a small schudell i hope update the items on it during the day 2010-10-12 07:08 schdule* 2010-10-12 07:19 wolfspraul: yes the topic is bit unfortunate :)  but the text inside seems is real good explanation on patent topics , and reasons of why must be avoided and don't have room in a free project. we can use the less aggressive topic of wpwrak page, just saying that work on that issues is already done and written, and able to use without loosing more time on this. Agree live is short and there is a lot of things more interesting to do :), damn lawyers 2010-10-12 07:36 tuxbrain: I'm sure Fedora is doing good work on this, I'll read it no worries 2010-10-12 08:17 hi all,i think i'm in trouble 2010-10-12 08:18 i reflash the ben nanonote,i want install debian on it 2010-10-12 08:19 i do the steps as this web says 2010-10-12 08:19 http://pyneo.org/howto/debian/nano.html 2010-10-12 08:20 when i finish flash,i can see success on the xterm 2010-10-12 08:21 then i use the hardware reset  on the button of the device 2010-10-12 08:21 but it seems does'nt work. 2010-10-12 08:21 so i want to boot in usb mode 2010-10-12 08:22 but  the software and the hardware boot mode do not work 2010-10-12 08:22 i don't know what to do 2010-10-12 08:22 can some one give me some advices?thanks 2010-10-12 08:24 take out battery, disconnect usb, wait 5 seconds and repower the device 2010-10-12 08:25 repower?like normal power? 2010-10-12 08:25 i try it 2010-10-12 08:26 can someone speak chinese,i know xiangfu can,but he is not here 2010-10-12 08:29 larsc: it dosn't work 2010-10-12 08:29 lsusb still not display 601a:4740 2010-10-12 08:30 press the power button for a few seconds 2010-10-12 08:33 i press more than 5 seconds,but happen nothing 2010-10-12 08:41 maybe i should disconnect from the prower for more while 2010-10-12 08:43 when i plug the battery,and connect the usb ,i can see the led bright 2010-10-12 08:43 so my nn isn't broken? 2010-10-12 08:48 i don't think so 2010-10-12 08:49 it's virtually impossible to brick the nanonote be conventional means 2010-10-12 08:50 i mean i hope the hardware will not be broken. 2010-10-12 08:54 i always run openwrt on the nn 2010-10-12 08:55 but i want to try debian,because i may get more softwares 2010-10-12 08:57 and more unstability 2010-10-12 08:57 this is not the first time people complaining about Ben being bricked after debian 2010-10-12 08:58 be brick? 2010-10-12 09:00 also, the more software your are talking about is generally just not suitable for Ben 2010-10-12 09:00 kyak: is there any solution to save the bricked ben? 2010-10-12 09:00 yes 2010-10-12 09:00 as larsc said, it is hard to brick it.. so don't worry 2010-10-12 09:00 just reflash 2010-10-12 09:00 but i can't boot it in usb mode 2010-10-12 09:02 then boot it by shortneing pins 2010-10-12 09:02 oh,i will wait for xiangfu,so i can speak chinese to him:) 2010-10-12 09:02 thanks 2010-10-12 09:02 kyak: the hardware usb_boot? 2010-10-12 09:02 i try,but failed 2010-10-12 09:04 but i don't try the hardware usb boot before,maybe i do the wrong way 2010-10-12 09:37 afaik you can't physically brick a nanonote, as the system-on-chip allows you to switch to usb boot mode to reflash the nand even if the device is bricked 2010-10-12 09:38 and you can't modify/delete the system-on-chip, so it will be always there 2010-10-12 09:39 cfy: here's a quick process: first without usb_boot: 2010-10-12 09:40 cfy: 1) remove battery and disconnect usb. 2010-10-12 09:40 2) wait 30 seconds. 2010-10-12 09:40 3) press the U key and hold it down. 2010-10-12 09:40 4) while still holding down U, connect USB. 2010-10-12 09:40 5) wait 5 seconds, then release U. 2010-10-12 09:41 6) lsusb on the PC should now show you the xxxx:4740 2010-10-12 09:41 then done? 2010-10-12 09:41 ok,i try it 2010-10-12 09:41 zear: got it 2010-10-12 09:41 then you proceed with the flashing procedure 2010-10-12 09:41 ok 2010-10-12 09:42 if this doesn't work, try it again, maybe 1-2 times. if it still doesn't work, then your u-boot is broken, too. don't worry, this can be fixed as well 2010-10-12 09:42 but let's first see how this goes. 2010-10-12 09:42 ok 2010-10-12 09:42 dosn't work 2010-10-12 09:43 mabye i try the hardware usb boot 2010-10-12 09:43 okay, there it goes as follows: 2010-10-12 09:43 1) remove battery and disconnect USB. 2010-10-12 09:43 2) wait 30 seconds. 2010-10-12 09:44 3) use the carbonized rubber button (the little rubber thing that came as an acessory with the ben) to short the usb_boot contacts 2010-10-12 09:44 4) hold that button down. then connect usb, while still holding the button. release the button after 5 seconds. 2010-10-12 09:45 5) now you should see xxxx:4740 2010-10-12 09:45 ok,i try 2010-10-12 09:45 if it doesn't work, retry. it's not easy to get a reliable contact with this rubber button. 2010-10-12 09:46 important: make sure the system is without power for ~30 seconds before you try to start it. if you don't give it enough time, it won't reset. 2010-10-12 09:46 ok,it works!!! 2010-10-12 09:46 :) 2010-10-12 09:46 yeah !! congratulations ! :) 2010-10-12 09:46 i notice you don't tell me to press the power button 2010-10-12 09:46 this is your lucky day :) 2010-10-12 09:47 maybe this is the problem? 2010-10-12 09:47 "press" was "use to short" :) 2010-10-12 09:47 ah .. no 2010-10-12 09:47 sorry. the power button isn't used. 2010-10-12 09:47 oh 2010-10-12 09:47 thank you,and thank all:) 2010-10-12 09:47 you save me :) 2010-10-12 09:48 the system powers on automatically if you supply power. you need the power button only to start it if it has already had power. 2010-10-12 09:49 wpwrak: i have try this hardware usb boot before,but it doesn't work,i don't know why this time it works 2010-10-12 09:49 wpwrak: maybe last times,i always press the power button? 2010-10-12 09:50 cfy: maybe, yes. or you didn't hold down the rubber button all the time. or sometimes it's just bad luck :) 2010-10-12 09:51 wpwrak: oh,got it,thank you.i finally be lucky:) 2010-10-12 10:02 hmm Fedex is offering a courier service 2010-10-12 10:03 kristianpaul: breaking news ! ;-) 2010-10-12 10:04 wpwrak: you thing is good have an customer account with Fedex? 2010-10-12 10:04 s/an/a 2010-10-12 10:06 [commit] carlos: Adding bootloader for lm32 http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/9b75552 2010-10-12 10:07 oh i need check that commit ! 2010-10-12 10:07 kristianpaul: dunno. i never applied for one. not sure if i could even get one as independent. 2010-10-12 10:08 wpwrak: well it seems i can the guy call me yday offering the service plus requirement (works for independent) 2010-10-12 10:16 wpwrak: hi,http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/USB_BOOT_mode 2010-10-12 10:16 wpwrak: in the step two,connect with usb 2010-10-12 10:16 wpwrak: is it not true? 2010-10-12 10:18 cfy: is true 2010-10-12 10:19 kristianpaul: oh,but i think this doesn't work on my situation 2010-10-12 10:19 Just Sometimes is Sometimes :) 2010-10-12 10:20 oh,my situation is special:) 2010-10-12 10:21 xiangfu: hi,`e† 2010-10-12 10:22 cfy: Hi 2010-10-12 10:22 xiangfu: M7debianú†î˜àÕÛeusb boot 2010-10-12 10:22 xiangfu: °(}† 2010-10-12 10:22 cfy: great. 2010-10-12 10:33 cfy: (http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/USB_BOOT_mode) hmm, these instructions aren't good. that's not how the hardware works. 2010-10-12 10:33 kyak: (the trouble with debian) it's indeed interesting why people have so many problems with that. i wonder what the install instructions for debian say. 2010-10-12 10:53 wpwrak yes,i retry,your instructions is better 2010-10-12 10:54 From my mobile 2010-10-12 10:55 Oh,the debian cannot work,maybe i should return to openwrt 2010-10-12 10:56 And try debian on SD 2010-10-12 10:56 Bye all 2010-10-12 11:11 [commit] César Pedraza: .. http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/c48feff 2010-10-12 11:21 wpwrak: ()that's not how the hardware works) there is not need to press power button when doing usb boot isnt? 2010-10-12 11:22 [commit] César Pedraza: fixed logic for Evalfit peripheral http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/5fbd9db 2010-10-12 11:22 kristianpaul: there's no need to press POWER when applying power to a properly drained device 2010-10-12 11:22 kristianpaul: (not only usb_boot) 2010-10-12 11:23 wpwrak: but that aply when powering from usb or also battery? 2010-10-12 11:24 [commit] César Pedraza: logic fixed http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/ece832a 2010-10-12 11:33 kristianpaul: good question. try it :) 2010-10-12 11:43 Lets see i pressed M button and the Ben dint powerup or boot from SD, after 15 seconds when i stoped 2010-10-12 11:44 but wait, i cant try usb_boot with baterry at least i take apart battery but keep powering up the Ben 2010-10-12 11:44 wpwrak: you are tricky !! 2010-10-12 11:44 need get other battery and some wires 2010-10-12 11:52 kristianpaul: i don't think you need usb boot. i think the ben will just boot normally, too. (into openwrt or whatever) 2010-10-12 11:52 wpwrak: (boot in whatever) without pressing power button? 2010-10-12 11:52 but just the first time the system is powered 2010-10-12 11:52 isnt? 2010-10-12 11:56 may be we'were talking about different topics ;) 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: Updated regression tests for output change in r5974 and improved handling of http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/0251833 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: Makefile (spotless): added target to remove "fped" (suggested by Xiangfu Liu) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/a119e25 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: make the SVN_VERSION, SVN_STATUS run only once. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/478bf03 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: add the manual page manual/fped.1 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/4d175e5 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: add DESTDIR to Makefile. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/585ea55 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: Updated regression tests for output change in r5974 and improved handling of http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/0251833 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: Makefile (spotless): added target to remove "fped" (suggested by Xiangfu Liu) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/a119e25 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: make the SVN_VERSION, SVN_STATUS run only once. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/478bf03 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: add the manual page manual/fped.1 http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/4d175e5 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] werner: add DESTDIR to Makefile. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/585ea55 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: add debian package stuff http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/2e53275 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: clean up the Build-Depends. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/2904478 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: use the new version rules. http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/ba53ced 2010-10-12 12:05 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: add debian/fped.manpages  for install manpage http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/937213b 2010-10-12 12:15 [commit] afc: fix http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/4abc118 2010-10-12 12:17 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: add debian/fped.manpages  for install manpage http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/bf4e0b9 2010-10-12 12:17 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update to svn rev 5982, enable dh_auto_test http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/23dc370 2010-10-12 12:21 wpwrak: ^ :) , sync the fped.git to upstream svn, and update the debian package staff 2010-10-12 12:33 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: use usual name for orig tarball top-level directory http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/131fa60 2010-10-12 12:51 larsc: Who maintain Hanvon subtarget btw? 2010-10-12 12:51 I see this ebook is Xburst 2010-10-12 12:51 but i guess not same modules load like in Ben 2010-10-12 12:52 kristianpaul: i maintain it 2010-10-12 12:52 larsc: :) 2010-10-12 12:53 there is a special subconfig in the n526/ subfolder of the xburst target which enables missing modules 2010-10-12 12:54 you mean modules not avalible in linux upstream or with some slight code? 2010-10-12 12:54 kristianpaul: what i mean is when you apply power after draining it completely 2010-10-12 12:55 [commit] Bas Wijnen: allow u-boot usbboot to be used as well http://qi-hw.com/p/iris/90186ce 2010-10-12 12:57 wpwrak: ah i tought, you're right documentation dont need mention POWER button in those cases 2010-10-12 13:05 kristianpaul: the POWER button is quite misleading because it suggests an entirely different start mechanism. if you apply power and only then hold usb_boot/U, then it'll never work 2010-10-12 13:10 hmm thats true usb_boot is not same when hardware 2010-10-12 13:10 or sofware 2010-10-12 13:12 bbl 2010-10-12 13:30 [commit] Bas Wijnen: allow using 2GB nand and ignore 'valid'-bits http://qi-hw.com/p/iris/8d5e290 2010-10-12 13:50 How is that just today i found this http://sharism.org exists.. 2010-10-12 15:55 Are you around, zear? 2010-10-12 15:58 zear: nevermind. I was going to ask about the "b" bug in Powder, but I found your solution in the logs. 2010-10-12 16:01 oh really? :D 2010-10-12 16:01 btw, B_Lizzard ported nethack-newt (graphical interface) to the nanonote under jlime 2010-10-12 16:01 it's totally awesome 2010-10-12 16:01 It probably works in openwrt too 2010-10-12 16:01 i spent half of this day playing it :D 2010-10-12 16:01 B_Lizzard, probably not, they have a lot of problems with sdl recently 2010-10-12 16:02 or at least that's what i heard 2010-10-12 16:02 AH 2010-10-12 16:02 hence i was always statically linking against dingux libs ;P 2010-10-12 17:40 hi all! 2010-10-12 17:40 someone up? 2010-10-12 17:40 salutes methril 2010-10-12 17:40 How ya be? 2010-10-12 17:41 For those that love Radio (aka USRP) solutions, i just received a interesting project link 2010-10-12 17:41 http://openhpsdr.org/ 2010-10-12 17:41 i'm fine, and you qbject 2010-10-12 17:41 ? 2010-10-12 17:41 with OpenHardware License 2010-10-12 17:42 btw qbject, not willing to try nethack-newt? 2010-10-12 17:43 hi zear 2010-10-12 17:43 powder is a game of chess, while nethack is a real adventure ;) 2010-10-12 17:43 hey methril 2010-10-12 17:43 i read you on ml 2010-10-12 17:43 i'm silent on the ml 2010-10-12 17:43 ml? 2010-10-12 17:43 ah 2010-10-12 17:43 but ialmost read all 2010-10-12 17:43 mailinglist 2010-10-12 17:43 mailing list 2010-10-12 17:43 nods 2010-10-12 17:43 hehe, i stopped reading it when it started being more active 2010-10-12 17:44 now i have over 300 unreaded posts 2010-10-12 17:44 zear: I'd love to try it, but I'm not rocking jlime. 2010-10-12 17:44 i barely use my nanonote, mostly for playing nethack 2010-10-12 17:44 simply i'm involved in other project (dingoo) and have no time for my nn 2010-10-12 17:44 qbject, you *could* try to install it in owrt 2010-10-12 17:45 well, help on dingo helps on NN :) 2010-10-12 17:45 B_Lizzard, what was the link to the ipk? 2010-10-12 17:45 i'm more interested in further projects 2010-10-12 17:45 methril, yes of course :) But if i'm ever gonna continue my nanonote support, it's gonna be for jlime 2010-10-12 17:45 but i'm nice with nn 2010-10-12 17:45 http://jlime.com/downloads/repository/extra-packages/nanonote/nethack-newt_1.3.0-r0_mipsel.ipk 2010-10-12 17:45 B_Lizzard, thank you good sir 2010-10-12 17:46 B_Lizzard, what does that need? just sdl and mixer/ 2010-10-12 17:46 B_Lizzard, thanks. 2010-10-12 17:46 I also just finished porting the puzzles sdl thing 2010-10-12 17:46 jlime could be full supporteb by q-hw if they get rid of pantent stuff 2010-10-12 17:46 sdl, sdl-image and sdl-mixer 2010-10-12 17:46 B_Lizzard, the puzzle collection? 2010-10-12 17:46 s/pantent/patent/ 2010-10-12 17:46 Yeah 2010-10-12 17:46 B_Lizzard, it rocks 2010-10-12 17:46 Which was originally done for GP2x 2010-10-12 17:46 Works like a charm 2010-10-12 17:46 B_Lizzard, using my source, or the gp2x one? 2010-10-12 17:46 gp2x 2010-10-12 17:46 zear, you are doing really amazing games work on MIPS :) 2010-10-12 17:47 heh :P 2010-10-12 17:47 For googlecode 2010-10-12 17:47 thsi is nice 2010-10-12 17:47 methril, thanks, though i am simply finalizing other people work 2010-10-12 17:47 the original program authors should get all the kudos 2010-10-12 17:47 i only recompile stuff 2010-10-12 17:48 zear, never said tha recompile and packaging is simple stuff 2010-10-12 17:48 B_Lizzard, just so you know, there is a new version of STPPC out 2010-10-12 17:48 if you used the old gp2x sources, they're probably outdated 2010-10-12 17:48 methril, well, it is 2010-10-12 17:48 it's just time consuming 2010-10-12 17:48 sometimes 2010-10-12 17:48 well, time is gold!!! ;) 2010-10-12 17:48 but it's nothing you need proper knowledge for 2010-10-12 17:49 Nah, i used svn 2010-10-12 17:49 B_Lizzard, ah, good 2010-10-12 17:49 i've no much time to spent on my projects.... so.... for me.... time is gold 2010-10-12 17:49 :P 2010-10-12 17:49 methril, any stuff that could be ported to the mips? 2010-10-12 17:49 :) 2010-10-12 17:49 for 320x240, that is 2010-10-12 17:49 zear: What methril said. I can barely compile hello.h 2010-10-12 17:50 qbject, believe or not, but i don't know much besides that ;) 2010-10-12 17:50 zear: nevertheless, you can make it go. I have other skills, but that ain't one of them. 2010-10-12 17:50 i have a very limited c knowledge, only enough to modify the little fragments of the code responsible for input/video output, stuff you need to optimize for small devices 2010-10-12 17:51 well, i would like to help more. I started an effort to port RTAI (Real Time Application Interface) to MIPS 2010-10-12 17:51 but i'm unable to write anything from scratch on my own 2010-10-12 17:51 zear: OpenTyrian, static-linked. 2010-10-12 17:51 zear, write from scratch is hard, but understand others code is harder (sometimes) ;) 2010-10-12 17:52 Yeap 2010-10-12 17:54 methril, i don't really understand their code, just the little fragments, and there's a lot of trial and error 2010-10-12 17:54 but recently i started learning proper C knowledge 2010-10-12 17:54 from the very beginning 2010-10-12 17:55 and it already helped me a lot as i finally understand pointers and their relation with arrays and i fully understand the compiling/linking process, and the latter is really useful for porting stuff 2010-10-12 17:55 zear, if you need help i could give you some points (i express myself better inspanish, but i could try to do it in english) 2010-10-12 17:56 i've been programming in C for more than 6 years now 2010-10-12 17:56 methril, don't worry, i'm not english native myself 2010-10-12 17:57 so far i got stucked on pointers, as the course began referring to it's exercise part (while at the start they said the exercise part wasn't mandatory) 2010-10-12 17:57 so basically now i have to start reading the exercise part from the 1st lesson, which will take me a couple of days to get to the pointers section 2010-10-12 17:59 well, pointers are easy when you understand them 2010-10-12 17:59 later you love them 2010-10-12 17:59 and you have most of the sw control 2010-10-12 17:59 you could point pointers to hw registers, to hw memory maps,,...... 2010-10-12 17:59 it's the most flexible tool you havein C 2010-10-12 18:03 i know the tehory now 2010-10-12 18:04 but as i said, in the examples of the code they started referring to the exercise part of the course, so i simply don't know what's going on in the code anymore. So i can't really learn pointers on the examples anymore, must read the exercise part of the course now 2010-10-12 18:04 *theory 2010-10-12 18:06 methril, i will remember about you and in case i have some problems i'll ask for help ;) 2010-10-12 18:07 zear, i'm here as methril or methril_work 2010-10-12 18:07 ok 2010-10-12 18:07 i'm glad to help you 2010-10-12 18:07 :) 2010-10-12 18:07 methril: "you could point pointers to hw registers" ... but not to CPU registers :) (register int foo; ... &foo ...) 2010-10-12 18:08 wpwrak, it depends on the compiler and the cpu ;) 2010-10-12 18:08 i deal with compiler where you could do almost everything :) 2010-10-12 18:08 A good book is a lifesaver 2010-10-12 18:09 methril: that should be generally disallowed in ANSI C. some systems may have memory-mapped CPU registers elsewhere, of course 2010-10-12 18:09 I got "C Programming: A Modern" approach which is really good 2010-10-12 18:09 I read C Primer Plus and Practical C Programming before that and they weren't as good 2010-10-12 18:09 wpwrak, off course, but some crappy compilers are not ANSI C ;) 2010-10-12 18:09 K&R is pretty nice, too 2010-10-12 18:09 Yeah, K&R is great. 2010-10-12 18:10 Dives deep very fast 2010-10-12 18:10 i never read C book, but i read some C++ books 2010-10-12 18:10 and others 2010-10-12 18:10 i love to read the C compiler manual 2010-10-12 18:10 it helps so much+ 2010-10-12 18:10 Well, I stopped reading for a month and I've forgotten everything :/ 2010-10-12 18:10 methril: the appendix of K&R is particularly useful for the finer points :) 2010-10-12 18:10 manpages manpages manpages 2010-10-12 18:11 maybe i 've to take a look 2010-10-12 18:11 i'm still learning, but... C is my favorite languange 2010-10-12 18:11 C++ is the second 2010-10-12 18:11 and later on... Python 2010-10-12 18:11 and then there's Zlotnick for POSIX. compact and to the point. 2010-10-12 18:12 I was thinking of learning Go, that Google language... 2010-10-12 18:12 But C comes first 2010-10-12 18:12 in my defense, i've tosaid i learned Pascal and Java first (in that order) 2010-10-12 18:13 :) 2010-10-12 18:13 i think every language adapts is needs 2010-10-12 18:13 s/is/it's 2010-10-12 18:13 methril: learning Python would be more useful I think, since it is less like C than C++ is 2010-10-12 18:13 but C is really well adapted for SoC's and low level (that is where i like to live) 2010-10-12 18:14 well, lera 2010-10-12 18:14 sorry 2010-10-12 18:14 so you'd have a broader spectrum of languages to choose from when you want to solve some problem 2010-10-12 18:14 learning VErilog HDL is my point now 2010-10-12 18:14 to mix with C and C++ 2010-10-12 18:14 to get the things working 2010-10-12 18:15 i like some C++ APIs, but i love to have the control i could have with C 2010-10-12 18:15 maybe someday i'm able to mix only C and python, but for now, i choose the language it adapts better for my needs :) 2010-10-12 18:16 i also know other languages (Perl, Shell Script, Java, Visual Basic (also .NET versions), C# , .... 2010-10-12 18:16 and i've my own preferences 2010-10-12 18:16 i also programmed in some pseudo languages 2010-10-12 18:17 C+Pascal+VisualBasic, Some Pseudo C, .VHL, ...... etc. 2010-10-12 18:17 s/VHL/VHDL 2010-10-12 18:20 wpwrak, did you see my lik, it's an interesting amateur radio hw 2010-10-12 18:20 wpwrak,  http://openhpsdr.org/ 2010-10-12 18:21 s/lik/link 2010-10-12 18:28 Has anyone mapped the function-key-screen-switching in owrt to something that can be done with just thumbs? 2010-10-12 18:34 methril: yeah, but only low frequencies. not sure it's really interesting outside the ham sector in this state 2010-10-12 18:57 wpwrak, some of the modules are around 1GHz 2010-10-12 18:57 i don't think it's low freq 2010-10-12 18:59 qbject, now since you have dingux's sdl libs, you can try nethack (i just realized it was you whom i helped on the forums :D) 2010-10-12 18:59 Ach ha! 2010-10-12 19:00 Brilliant. Can't mess with it tonight, but I will tomorrow. Now I have to catch a train. Cheers! 2010-10-12 19:00 cya 2010-10-12 19:06 methril: ah, i only saw that filter array but no real RF front-ends. still, most of the interesting stuff happens > 1 GHz nowadays. 2010-10-12 19:09 i see most interesting stuff happens > 1Ghz ;) 2010-10-12 19:10 wpwrak, some of your intersting stuff is hapenning there, and maybe some of mine (at work) happens there too 2010-10-12 19:10 unfortunately i still don't have any lue at job, and i've no time to help you, but someday i will :) 2010-10-12 19:16 LUE ? 2010-10-12 19:16 (some day) good :) 2010-10-12 19:20 wpwrak, did you see the sw? http://openhpsdr.org/cyclops.html 2010-10-12 19:20 wpwrak, it's ready for 1 GHz 2010-10-12 19:25 sorry, i misunderstand the project, it's for HAM and radio amateurs 2010-10-12 19:33 0 to 1 GHz is nice :) 2010-10-12 20:57 read this from Chitlesh about FEL: "We operate like a EDA/CAD group of a company but for the 2010-10-12 20:57 opensource hardware community." 2010-10-12 20:57 very nice! 2010-10-12 20:57 I'll keep it in mind when talking about Qi Hardware... 2010-10-12 21:09 wolfspraul: (community news) seems that the next one will be delivered in five volumes and will be read only by scholarly researchers ;-) 2010-10-12 21:09 wolfspraul: (i.e., there's already a lot of stuff and there are still 2.5 weeks to go) 2010-10-12 21:12 maybe I move some to 12/1 2010-10-12 21:13 why not make one, say, next week ? if the rate doesn't drop, 12/1 will be even worse :) 2010-10-12 21:13 and then you have a lot of MM to report about 2010-10-12 21:13 right now 11/1 is still a mess 2010-10-12 21:13 maybe I find an hour or two today 2010-10-12 21:34 methril: nice link about HPSDT, have you got one of those? 2010-10-12 21:34 Open Hardware License - Non-Commercial License Btw 2010-10-12 21:34 i not sure wich license uses the USRP(2) 2010-10-12 21:35 But sadlt i think those Endless Open Hardware Licenses consortiums, and blah blah blah, just focused on non-comercial afaik (i hope i'm wrong) 2010-10-12 21:36 just getting excuses that hardware cant be theated like sofware lets make a new licencese ! (suspicious) 2010-10-12 21:36 wich qi had proven is NOT true 2010-10-12 21:36 methril: are ahcking around SDR recently btw? 2010-10-12 21:37 [five volumes] lol :) 2010-10-12 21:40 wolfspraul: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Piwik_stats an the end of the top chart why always the line go down after current wich in think is not true, is this a piwik bug? 2010-10-12 21:40 That why you moved that graph for qi main page? 2010-10-12 21:42 kristianpaul: that's the last/current day, right? 2010-10-12 21:42 is that what you mean? 2010-10-12 21:42 yup 2010-10-12 21:42 because today is not over yet, the numbers for today are still growing 2010-10-12 21:42 but it seems falling 2010-10-12 21:42 just kid of funny 2010-10-12 21:43 if you think that doesn't 'look good', we just end the chart with yesterday 2010-10-12 21:43 or may be not so ./ 2010-10-12 21:43 i think so 2010-10-12 21:43 just a falling pointer never look good in those graphs ;) 2010-10-12 21:43 ok, point taken 2010-10-12 21:44 but you understand why it is so, right? 2010-10-12 21:44 if only 10 hr of a 24h day have passed... 2010-10-12 21:44 ahh 2010-10-12 21:44 I like to 'deflate' those numbers anyway, since everybody else is inflating. 2010-10-12 21:44 but it evetully will change if i look it at 23:59 ? 2010-10-12 21:44 yes correct 2010-10-12 21:45 right now we take out traffic from admins 2010-10-12 21:45 to admins? 2010-10-12 21:45 but also this is 'visitors' but there is a smaller number 'unique visitors' that I will switch to 2010-10-12 21:45 ok 2010-10-12 21:45 basically I set all switches and settings I can find to come out with lower numbers 2010-10-12 21:45 I really don't like these inflated numbers. 2010-10-12 21:45 it would be easy to make the graph show 2000 visitors, trust me :-) 2010-10-12 21:46 ;) 2010-10-12 21:46 about homepage 2010-10-12 21:46 yes, it was at the bottom of the homepage for a few weeks 2010-10-12 21:46 but there are 2 problems 2010-10-12 21:46 one is, the chart is using flash 2010-10-12 21:46 who likes flash? 2010-10-12 21:46 well i was not pointendhihg visit rates either just worried about now clarifying a bit non-complented data 2010-10-12 21:46 well i dont 2010-10-12 21:46 but is there.. 2010-10-12 21:47 and another one is, querying the chart is creating a high load on the server 2010-10-12 21:47 and MediaWiki cashing doesn't help because it's all javascript driven 2010-10-12 21:47 mysql queries? 2010-10-12 21:47 well it's not just one png that is served 2010-10-12 21:47 it's an endless series of data points queried via javascript 2010-10-12 21:47 and then flash 2010-10-12 21:48 piwiki dint have a RRD-like out put like in munin? 2010-10-12 21:48 so... one sec... 2010-10-12 21:48 hmm 2010-10-12 21:48 I'm already on it 2010-10-12 21:48 ok 2010-10-12 21:48 there is a plugin to render charts as png 2010-10-12 21:48 go ahead :) 2010-10-12 21:48 but it's buggy, and it doesn't support unique visitors yet 2010-10-12 21:49 http://dev.piwik.org/trac/ticket/1721 2010-10-12 21:49 he said he would come out with support for unique visitors in 'a few days' 2010-10-12 21:49 that was 4 days ago 2010-10-12 21:49 ah unique your dont wan to track us :) 2010-10-12 21:51 so let's just give it some time 2010-10-12 21:51 piwik is running 2010-10-12 21:51 /wiki/Piwik_stats works 2010-10-12 21:51 I removed it from the homepage 'for now' to solve the flash and unnecessary load problem. a new plugin is 'in the making' 2010-10-12 21:52 I'd say give it a few weeks and a nice PNG unique visitors chart is back on the homepage. 2010-10-12 21:52 ok 2010-10-12 21:53 also I plan a rotation of small, thumbnail sized interesting pictures on the homepage 2010-10-12 21:53 oh 2010-10-12 21:53 say we put a picture in a new category, Homepage_rotation 2010-10-12 21:53 then we have a small band, like a newsticker, very small thumbnails 2010-10-12 21:53 just with some fun/interesting pics 2010-10-12 21:53 anyway just an idea 2010-10-12 21:54 no time right now... 2010-10-12 22:01 wpwrak: the SiGE manual said minimum output drive (7.5pF load) but the Ingenic Datasheet said that VDDIO pins have a typical 5pF, so may be, i should be so scare about getting triangled waveform, after all 2010-10-12 22:01 anyway i'll do the test 2010-10-12 22:01 s/test/debug 2010-10-12 22:19 kristianpaul: I start the chart with yesterday 2010-10-12 22:21 wolfspraul: looks better now :) 2010-10-12 22:27 ok 'im off bed (long day) 2010-10-12 22:27 gn8 2010-10-12 22:27 n8 2010-10-12 23:07 [commit] Juan64Bits: Routing some FPGA free GPIOs http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/0411d60