2010-10-10 01:07 wolfgang: (layout) nice ! 2010-10-10 01:08 (connector) hmm the first question would be what choices you actually have. e.g., is whatever connects to already given ? 2010-10-10 01:11 if 2 mm is inconvenient, also splitting it into two connectors could be an option. it all depends on what it is for. e.g., for daughterboards, two connectors would be much better than just one. for other things, no. 2010-10-10 01:12 i don't know much about 2 mm header sizes, but the dimensions don't look insane :) (not excessively small, for instance) 2010-10-10 03:47 rafa: i have some problems installing any package on Jlime 2010-10-10 03:47 Collected errors: * pkg_get_installed_files: fopen(//usr/lib/opkg/info/pam-plugin-exec.list): No such file or directory 2010-10-10 03:47 * pkg_get_installed_files: fopen(//usr/lib/opkg/info/libxmu6.list): No such file or directory 2010-10-10 03:48 do you know what could be the problem? 2010-10-10 04:26 (want to compare build speed under Jlime and OpenWRT) 2010-10-10 04:46 [commit] Bas Wijnen: Add unbricking method http://qi-hw.com/p/iris/9aff93c 2010-10-10 06:19 wpwrak: the first batch of USB IDs made it into usb.ids, I submitted the next 2 today 2010-10-10 06:19 thanks for pushing me on this a bit :-) sometimes I'm a bit slow to get up to speed on things. 2010-10-10 06:20 next I need to look into this whole Ethernet MAC thing 2010-10-10 07:36 Hi, is there anyone here that can help me with compiling nupdf? 2010-10-10 07:36 I'm getting undefined references to functions which are not in mupdf 2010-10-10 07:36 pdf_droppage, for instance 2010-10-10 07:37 I suspect those are old functions which are not in mupdf 0.7.0 2010-10-10 07:38 Yeah, OK 2010-10-10 07:38 The functions are in mupdf 0.6 2010-10-10 07:49 B_Lizzard: the nupdf was written with older mupdf version in mind 2010-10-10 07:49 I'm looking at the differences and will probably make a patch if all goes well 2010-10-10 07:49 therefore nupdf is not compiled now.. i've contacted the author, but it seems that he doesn't have a lot of time/interest 2010-10-10 07:49 I made a bug report on the google code page 2010-10-10 07:50 anyway, the good news is that all requirements for nupdf are ported to openwrt 2010-10-10 07:50 You mean the libraries? 2010-10-10 07:50 now only need the patch for nupdf you are talking about :) 2010-10-10 07:50 yes, the libaries 2010-10-10 07:50 B_Lizzard: if you sucess, that would be super great 2010-10-10 07:51 Apparently, pdf_droppage became pdf_freepage 2010-10-10 07:51 So at least I'm on the right track 2010-10-10 07:51 there are some other changes you are going to see 2010-10-10 07:52 seems that mupdf library has changed a lot 2010-10-10 07:53 B_Lizzard: so, are you using the mupdf and other libs from openwrt-packages? 2010-10-10 07:53 (just to make sure you are not doing double work porting dependencies for nupdf) 2010-10-10 07:53 No, I work on jlime 2010-10-10 07:53 wolfspraul: (usb) great, congratulations ! :) with the next spin of linux distros, lsusb will then proudly announce it when it finds qi-hw any devices 2010-10-10 07:53 But the work done should be useful for all 2010-10-10 07:54 wolfspraul: (mac) yup. wpan will probably need a company_id for the MACs. 2010-10-10 07:54 B_Lizzard: indeed.. if you get it right, please let me know.. i will port to to openwrt then 2010-10-10 07:54 Sure thing 2010-10-10 07:54 I'm testing it on my pc first, see if it compiles 2010-10-10 08:00 (typos) and as usual, it shows then the first thing i do after rubbing the sleep out of my eyes is IRC ... 2010-10-10 08:03 wpwrak: did you see this 2.00 mm breakout connector thing andres brought up a few hours ago? 2010-10-10 08:03 he's thinking about a 2*25 2.00 mm pitch connector for xue 2010-10-10 08:07 wolfspraul: yes. i wrote a few lines about it into the empty channel :) 2010-10-10 08:07 wolfspraul: per se, ther's nothing wrong with 2 mm. it's not as common a 2.54 mm but far from exotic 2010-10-10 08:08 wolfspraul: there is of course the question of what it is used for. e.g., if you want to connect to arbitrary other things of the DIY type, then it's not an ideal choice. 2010-10-10 08:08 wolfspraul: if it's just some board-to-board connector, why not. may even go smaller. 2010-10-10 08:09 wolfspraul: if 2.54 mm would be desirable but there's no room, then there's the question whether it has to be one connector or if it could be multiple 2010-10-10 08:10 well I don't know what Andres or others are thinking, but what comes to my mind is LCM, keyboard, battery controller 2010-10-10 08:11 I don't even know whether it is theoretically possible, for now I just assume an fpga can do EVERYTHING :-) 2010-10-10 08:14 wolfspraul: so it's extensions okay. do they have a specific form factor or placement ? such as parallel to the xue pcb, for instance 2010-10-10 08:15 no it's far from that, at least in my mind 2010-10-10 08:16 wolfspraul: its really hard to say what components fits without some spec :) (like that "we need a cheaper adc". one could frame that one ;-) 2010-10-10 08:16 more about proof of concept, write software (IC codes) 2010-10-10 08:16 sure 2010-10-10 08:16 it's called an 'expansion header' 2010-10-10 08:16 wolfspraul: ic codes ? you mean verilog ? 2010-10-10 08:16 sure 2010-10-10 08:17 why not. if it can be driven from software running on top of the softcore, also fine 2010-10-10 08:17 we have to decide about the expansion connector before knowing exactly what the expansions will be 2010-10-10 08:17 if the expansion header should aim for maximum flexibility for DIY projects, then 2.54 mm is better than 2 mm. it's easier to get connectors and since it's bigger, you can also do some tweaks in a pinch. 2010-10-10 08:18 yes but maybe too big 2010-10-10 08:18 the board is nice small, would be a pity to make it bigger only for the expansion connector 2010-10-10 08:18 if the idea is to mount boards in parallel to the xue pcb, you could also have multiple connectors, so you don't have to cram everything on one. e.g., one on each side, so the 2nd board will also have a reasonably good mechanical connection as well 2010-10-10 08:18 and 2.00 is not as bad as 1.25 or whatever other smaller connectors there are 2010-10-10 08:19 I think that would eat up far too much space 2010-10-10 08:19 depends. also 2 mm isn't all that small. 2010-10-10 08:20 I don't even know where the proposed one should fit, see http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Xue/layout 2010-10-10 08:20 yeah, i've been wondering about that too :-) 2010-10-10 08:20 maybe on the side 2010-10-10 08:22 speaking about that layout PNG, do you think it's easy to automatically generate something like that from KiCad after committs as well? 2010-10-10 08:22 those are made with pcbnew, right? 2010-10-10 08:25 hm, good question that one. i've never seen one that looks quite like this. lemme check. 2010-10-10 08:27 looks like the SVG export 2010-10-10 08:29 that may indeed be easier than a postscript export. the PS menu is quite overloaded and you have to change a gazillion options to get something sensible 2010-10-10 08:30 the relationship is just every .brd file can be plotted into one .svg ? 2010-10-10 08:31 yes 2010-10-10 08:31 andres-calderon: there is the man! :-) 2010-10-10 08:31 andres-calderon: we are wondering where on the beautiful little Xue even the 2*25 2.00mm connector would fit 2010-10-10 08:31 doesn't include areas, though 2010-10-10 08:32 wpwrak: you read that I said earlier we can include a 'breakout' cable with each board that has that 2*25 connector on one side, and individual ribbon cables (for example) on the other side 2010-10-10 08:32 would that help? 2010-10-10 08:33 ah, i had not seen that. that may me useful. but it all depends on the use :) if it's just "connect *something*" then that's a nice option 2010-10-10 08:33 For daughter card, 2 connectors can provide mechanical stability 2010-10-10 08:33 if the rules for connecting stuff are more specific (such as placement etc.), maybe not 2010-10-10 08:33 well you tell me 2010-10-10 08:34 I'm the newbie to all this. 2010-10-10 08:34 I want to hookup lcm, keyboard, battery controller. naive as I am. replace my asus notebook :-) 2010-10-10 08:34 but more realistically I think there are many targets one could want to hookup there, which I have limited overview over 2010-10-10 08:35 wolfspraul: in a pinch, people can also make their own cable :) it's more the case that you need a ton of different little connectors to be compatible with 2 mm that i wouldn't like so mucn 2010-10-10 08:35 so what's the settlement now, in plain English? 2010-10-10 08:35 does the Xue board have to get bigger? 2010-10-10 08:35 which type of connector is preferable 2010-10-10 08:35 andres-calderon: it he idea that this will be used for dautherboards or also to connect loosely attached things ? (such an some MCU on a development board on the side) 2010-10-10 08:36 Andres proposed one, I have no problem with that one 2010-10-10 08:36 wolfspraul: relax :) 2010-10-10 08:36 ok :-) 2010-10-10 08:37 wolfspraul: (svg) it's nice for having an overview. it's not so nice for diffs. for diffs you need a black and white base image and that will probably get too crowded in the svg, with all layers superimposed 2010-10-10 08:38 wolfspraul: also, the diff would need to be able to separate the layers. e.g., if you move a trace from top to bottom layer, you'll be able to see that. also, if you add a trace that runs for a long distance above/below one at a different layer, it would be nice if you'd see all of it, not just the entry/exit points. 2010-10-10 08:39 wolfspraul: so for diffs, i'd want to use something like the postscript output we currently get. or maybe gerber if that's easier. then i could show this layer by layer. 2010-10-10 08:40 wolfspraul: for a quick overview or just an impression of the project, on the other hand, the svg is wonderful. 2010-10-10 08:44 ah yes 2010-10-10 08:44 I didn't think of it for the diffs 2010-10-10 08:45 there are so many more visualizations, reports, and what not we can generate it's almost scary 2010-10-10 08:45 we need to pick strictly along the lines of what is actually benefitial 2010-10-10 08:45 so like you said, the svg is just a nice visualization of the latest state of the board 2010-10-10 08:46 just a super high-level 'hey look at this' thing 2010-10-10 08:46 yup. present the board in a nice way. 2010-10-10 08:46 I'm playing with pcbnew a bit right now 2010-10-10 08:46 it has a nice 3D viewer 2010-10-10 08:46 'nice' for a non-techie like me on this subject 2010-10-10 08:47 unfortunately it seems it can only export one particular view/angle into png or jpeg 2010-10-10 08:47 would be cool if it could export to some widely supported 3D format, which afaik doesn't exist 2010-10-10 08:47 anyway all just toys... 2010-10-10 08:49 you can export to vrml (in pcbnew) 2010-10-10 08:49 one problem with the 3d viewer is that it needs someone to draw the 3d packages :) 2010-10-10 08:51 I don't find the vrml output 2010-10-10 08:52 man vrml... there was such a hype around it. for a while everybody thought web browsing would inevitably become all 3D. 2010-10-10 08:52 I didn't even know it's still around, reading up on Wikipedia now... 2010-10-10 08:54 well, look at the industry today. 3D video ;-) 2010-10-10 08:55 (vrml output) in pcbnew, under File > Export 2010-10-10 08:55 I don't have it there 2010-10-10 08:56 maybe some libs are required? I have Specctra DSN, GenCAD, Module Report 2010-10-10 08:56 GenCAD == vrml? 2010-10-10 08:57 nono, it says VRML 2010-10-10 08:58 dunno what prerequisites it has, if any. i have version 2010-08-11 bzr 2448 2010-10-10 08:58 (if any) that is, except mandatory ones 2010-10-10 08:59 anyway, gotta run. i have a barbecue to prepare for :) 2010-10-10 08:59 wow, nice - enjoy! 2010-10-10 08:59 yes it's new maybe 2010-10-10 08:59 I have the 20100314 release 2010-10-10 08:59 cya 2010-10-10 09:06 http://www.chemicalgraphics.com/paul/vrml2pov/ 2010-10-10 09:08 that software has a non-commercial clause 2010-10-10 09:10 the best would be some format that could be rendered live in javascript 2010-10-10 09:10 there seems to be a lot of activity in that direction 2010-10-10 09:10 so maybe the vrml can be converted into something that can then be rendered via javascript? don't know... 2010-10-10 09:13 think about vrml free software viewver and got headache 2010-10-10 09:16 3D rendering is not a great feature... i prefer improved routing tools :) 2010-10-10 09:17 kyak: does that happen for any package?. If so, maybe the FS broke?.. is it ext2 on sd?. Do you have swap? 2010-10-10 09:24 rafa: for any package, it is ext2 on sd and swap is enabled 2010-10-10 09:24 however, it's just a warning.. 2010-10-10 09:25 a package is installed fine 2010-10-10 09:26 andres-calderon: don't worry, I was just thinking for something like the schhist that we can create automatically from Kicad commits 2010-10-10 09:26 so that non-tech people have something to click on and play with 2010-10-10 09:29 kyak: ext2 on sd is a little unstable when you did not have some problems. For example, if you ran out of battery the fs could break easily. The system will do a fsck after at a new boot, but it could sane but not complete or inconsistent 2010-10-10 09:29 kyak: when you did not have=when you had problems 2010-10-10 09:29 rafa: i see... i'll try to reinstall then 2010-10-10 09:31 kyak: if you do then try (having swap) to install the same packages so you can check a bit further which could be the problem. 2010-10-10 09:31 rafa: i will. thanks! 2010-10-10 09:35 kyak: you are welcome 2010-10-10 10:11 heh i realice today why lekernel use the word autocrap :p 2010-10-10 10:29 [commit] Andres Calderon: GPIO connector initial placement http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/dfaed9a 2010-10-10 10:29 [commit] Andres Calderon: 40 pins connector added http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/eaf3abb 2010-10-10 10:51 kristianpaul: autotools is what happens when you had a traumatizing youth caused by misunderstood makefiles and diverging APIs, and then you grew up with a strong desire of revenge, not realizing that the origin of all your pain has long disappeared. 2010-10-10 10:52 :) 2010-10-10 10:52 wpwrak: in my case the issue disappeared but i dont know wht 2010-10-10 10:52 why* 2010-10-10 10:53 this not happens all the time, but when hapens.... 2010-10-10 10:53 :) 2010-10-10 10:53 chroot saves my day :) 2010-10-10 10:53 wpwrak: but autotools are almost everywhere anyway, and i haven't heard of good alternative :) 2010-10-10 10:54 finding out how to program his CPLD due the lack of trusty paralle jtag cable and just a buspirate around 2010-10-10 10:54 kyak: he :) good point 2010-10-10 10:55 kyak: most of the time, a simple makefile will do nicely :) you have things like pkg-config for library dependencies and system APIs all tend to be pretty close to POSIX now, so there's little to worry about 2010-10-10 10:55 i agree with wpwrak 2010-10-10 10:55 kyak: even more so if your target is linux-specific anyway ;-) 2010-10-10 10:56 actuallt this sofware i was compiling just move to autotools in devel branch, dont know why.. 2010-10-10 10:57 me too would prefer to go with a simple Makefile 2010-10-10 10:57 agree 2010-10-10 11:03 wpwrak a question about IDBG,  Do You think it's a good idea to use IDBG to program an FPGA (XILINX S6)? 2010-10-10 11:04 andres-calderon: you fpga is same as milkymsit? 2010-10-10 11:05 yes, the same FPGA 2010-10-10 11:05 andres-calderon: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/mmone-jtag-serial-cable/ 2010-10-10 11:05 is already proven to work and supported in urjtag 2010-10-10 11:06 andres-calderon: http://milkymist.org/wiki/index.php?title=Flashing_the_Milkymist_One 2010-10-10 11:06 also i think wpwrak is moving to ftdi chip too ;) 2010-10-10 11:06 wee :) 2010-10-10 11:09 andres-calderon: http://lekernel.net/blog/?p=1266 2010-10-10 11:09 There is no excuse :D 2010-10-10 11:09 ok, but I'm currently interested in the  IDBG board ... We have experience with the FTDI chip, but I'm interested in using the 8051, used by Werner 2010-10-10 11:10 ahh 2010-10-10 11:10 well is up to you then :) 2010-10-10 11:10 FTDI is very expensive, and the 8051 has ADCs inputs 2010-10-10 11:10 (but please no more closed sources chips !!) 2010-10-10 11:10 andres-calderon: very?? 2010-10-10 11:13 7~ usd is not so expensive, considering you got jtag and uart 2010-10-10 11:13 just talking about the chip 2010-10-10 11:13 very expensive... 2010-10-10 11:14 the chip used in IDBG includes  ADCs 2010-10-10 11:14 ok 2010-10-10 11:21 we have a lot of experience with the FTDI, i like this chip. 2010-10-10 11:37 [commit] kyak: gcc: don't strip shared libraries (now shared build works, too) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b7e9047 2010-10-10 14:26 [commit] Bas Wijnen: remove obsolete dependencies http://qi-hw.com/p/iris/b756006 2010-10-10 16:49 [commit] Bas Wijnen: small fixes http://qi-hw.com/p/iris/6022307 2010-10-10 17:31 wpwrak: [the wall] talking about strange variations of this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U13xOvDa19U 2010-10-10 17:31 nice reading of xue posibilities and conector :) 2010-10-10 17:32 IMMO having two connectors "ala arduino will provide stability to daughter boards and isntead of one cable we can deliver it with two :) 2010-10-10 17:33 for the DIY guys 2010-10-10 17:33 damn no wolfi to ask about SIE local production 2010-10-10 17:37 wolfgang: maybe we should include this cable also in next SIEs 2010-10-10 17:53 tuxbrain: hola :) 2010-10-10 17:53 tuxbrain: how are workshops goinf btw? 2010-10-10 17:56 well after we decide to left the Tuxbrain den and return to a more nomad aproach people start to register... 2010-10-10 17:56 crazy world :P 2010-10-10 17:57 heh 2010-10-10 17:57 so we are looking for a place to do the first course of this kind 2010-10-10 17:57 place on demand too¡? 2010-10-10 17:57 I think the trick was the lovely penguins victor desing :) 2010-10-10 17:58 i like it 2010-10-10 17:58 well we have some friendly places that will allow to do the courses near here Barcelona 2010-10-10 17:59 but well if a group wants to pay our trip to whatever place :) we will go there 2010-10-10 18:00 thats demand ! 2010-10-10 18:01 we are cheap to maintain once there , redbull before workshop/ beer after workshop, with some chip potatoes :) 2010-10-10 18:01 :) 2010-10-10 18:02 but well fist lets try to not so nomad approach and train ourselfs locally and if there is demand we can study the really nomad way, 2010-10-10 18:08 well time to sleep, Wolfi, tomorrow I will be not very on line but try to contact you 2010-10-10 18:10 tuxbrain_away: we can offer you asados here :) (for courses) 2010-10-10 18:15 rafa: ;) 2010-10-10 18:15 or a jlime work 2010-10-10 18:16 shop** 2010-10-10 18:16 oops :) 2010-10-10 18:19 rafa: remener the other time i asked you about encryption support in jlme, not talking about making it default thing, do you think is loable ? 2010-10-10 18:19 rafa: like for saving personal information/data securelly 2010-10-10 18:23 wpwrak: yay he said yes (scopemeter and some other labs tool just some blocks from home ) 2010-10-10 18:26 :D 2010-10-10 19:27 [commit] Andres Calderon: - root page has been resized http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/e40b97f 2010-10-10 22:10 hm. anybody a clue how to reflash a elphel? 2010-10-10 22:11 he 2010-10-10 22:11 ask in #elphel 2010-10-10 22:16 roh: do you have mirko's camera, or where did you get it from? 2010-10-10 22:29 wolfspraul yeah.. for the moment. just trying the basics 2010-10-10 22:29 its cool hardware. really nice quality 2010-10-10 22:36 very happy to hear that 2010-10-10 22:36 roh: you would love those guys (Elphel). If you are every in Utah, give them a call (I know, long shot :-)) 2010-10-10 22:37 there are only a few people in #elphel, but they should help you 2010-10-10 22:37 I once built the entire rootfs myself (not the fpga bitstreams though), but I never reflashed one 2010-10-10 22:37 roh: what do you like about the quality? 2010-10-10 22:37 you mean the case? or something you see on the board? 2010-10-10 22:38 roh: btw, please take good care of this camera. It's only loaned from Elphel... :-) 2010-10-10 22:45 wolfspraul for sure 2010-10-10 22:46 yes.. the mechanics ive seen so far. havent opened it 2010-10-10 22:56 wpwrak: question about KiCad versions. you said you use a 2010-08-xx version. I assume you take them directly from the launchpad bazaar? I found two branches there, stable and testing. Which one do you use? 2010-10-10 22:56 my impression of the stable branch is that only a few critical fixes are backported, so it looks like you use testing? have you found that to be stable enough? or do you take it at certain times when you know from the devs that it is stable enough? 2010-10-10 23:11 yup, it's testing that is use (juct checked ;-) 2010-10-10 23:11 it's basically guesswork indeed 2010-10-10 23:12 and that's generally safe? 2010-10-10 23:12 or someone tells you a magic revision number and then you use that? 2010-10-10 23:15 andres-calderon: the c8051f326 (idbg) doesn't have an adc. you'd have to pick a more powerful chip in the same family for this. 2010-10-10 23:20 tuxbrain_away: wow ! :) 2010-10-10 23:21 tuxbrain_away: (cable) you could also include just the connectors and a bit of cable. leave it to people to do the crimping. 2010-10-10 23:22 tuxbrain_away: where is the penguin ? :) 2010-10-10 23:24 kristianpaul: (scope) great ! congratulations ! so you'll finally see what you're doing :) 2010-10-10 23:25 andres-calderon: (c8051f326 vs. ftdi) i'm still struggling with the ftdi chip. so far, it doesn't work in a usable way (with bitbanging) and i don't understand why. could be horribly bad design (the documentation isn't clear about some important details) 2010-10-10 23:27 wolfspraul: i look at the list, see if i like the changes they're discussing/committing, then pick or not :) 2010-10-10 23:27 wolfspraul: so far, i haven't gotten burnt. but then, i only do this a few times per year. 2010-10-10 23:29 wpwrak: can you tell me again what revision you are using right now? 2010-10-10 23:29 andres-calderon: i also see data corruption on the c8051f32x that gets past the crc. so my world is quite noise. that's why ben-wpan/cntr uses so much redundancy. 2010-10-10 23:29 I'll just follow that 2010-10-10 23:29 wpwrak,  IDBG could be used to  program a  S6? 2010-10-10 23:30 what's a S6 ? 2010-10-10 23:30 Xilinx Spartan6 2010-10-10 23:30 my kicad identifies itself as version 2010-08-11, bzr 2448 2010-10-10 23:31 aah, spartan. hmm, after some work 2010-10-10 23:31 i've implemented some jtag, but it doesn't work well. too slow. 2010-10-10 23:32 wpwrak, data corruption...  that is scary. 2010-10-10 23:32 andres-calderon: yeah, i don't like that at all 2010-10-10 23:34 andres-calderon: it's not very common, but you notice it in something like ben-wpan/cntr, where there are thousands of messages and one corruption can upset the system 2010-10-10 23:35 andres-calderon: (i'll make it even more robust in the next version) 2010-10-10 23:36 anyway, crawling to bed now. it's been a busy day with lots of drinks :) 2010-10-10 23:39 2448, thx 2010-10-10 23:39 hope the barbecue was great! 2010-10-10 23:39 n8