2010-09-21 00:09 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: 13 tall is okay for you?
2010-09-21 00:10 <kristianpaul> let me take a pic
2010-09-21 00:10 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: 300 mA on SD VDD should be fine, here's a rough calculation done in the past  http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-May/004414.html
2010-09-21 00:13 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Pantallazo-6.png
2010-09-21 00:19 <kristianpaul> hmm still to big i'll try 8mm
2010-09-21 00:23 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: check again is 8mm tall in think i'll split and print it
2010-09-21 00:25 <kristianpaul> chao
2010-09-21 00:25 <kristianpaul> oops
2010-09-21 00:39 <kristianpaul> damm i always hate why heekscad dont let me move in less that one mm
2010-09-21 00:57 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: check last version of the pantallazo :)
2010-09-21 00:57 <kristianpaul> any way i'll print now
2010-09-21 00:57 <kristianpaul> in RED :p
2010-09-21 01:08 <kristianpaul> printing the lid
2010-09-21 01:13 <kristianpaul> printing the body
2010-09-21 01:18 <kristianpaul> done printin now taking pictures
2010-09-21 01:24 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: wow, that's quick
2010-09-21 01:24 <wpwrak> 8 mm is still a lot. do the horizontal surfaces have to be that thick ? in total, you shouldn't need more than about 4.5 mm ...
2010-09-21 01:29 <kristianpaul> 2mm thick horizontal
2010-09-21 01:29 <kristianpaul> 1mm vertical
2010-09-21 01:29 <kristianpaul> wait some pics
2010-09-21 01:29 <kristianpaul> okay i try do smaller tomorrow
2010-09-21 01:31 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: 300 mA is better than i expected. nice :)
2010-09-21 01:33 <kristianpaul> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:IMG_2666.JPG  http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:IMG_2668.JPG
2010-09-21 01:34 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: my closed soure gps pull 200mA with no conplain i should add to what wolfspraul  pointed
2010-09-21 01:34 <wpwrak> hehe, the simplified pcb is cute :-)
2010-09-21 01:35 <kristianpaul> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:IMG_2670.JPG http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:IMG_2671.JPG
2010-09-21 01:35 <kristianpaul> and thats it
2010-09-21 01:35 <wpwrak> nice how it fits !
2010-09-21 01:35 <kristianpaul> okay i'm  off bed i try 4.5 mm tomowor
2010-09-21 01:35 <kristianpaul> gn8
2010-09-21 01:36 <wpwrak> till tomorrow ! looks promising, thanks !
2010-09-21 01:39 <wolfspraul> n8
2010-09-21 03:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ben-baseframe-bottom-100um is done. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/2cf011d
2010-09-21 03:34 <tuxbrain_away> wpwrak , kristianpaul : can I suggest a protuberance, hook li in that wpan case? , to "anchor" it to the hole "supposedly thinked to attach a strap", this way we can remove some mechanical stress to the uSD attachment
2010-09-21 03:35 <tuxbrain_away> hook li ->"hook like"
2010-09-21 03:38 <wpwrak> tuxbrain_away: you mean a little "nose" that goes into the hole ?
2010-09-21 03:38 <tuxbrain_away> yep
2010-09-21 03:39 <wpwrak> hmm, that hole is about 4 mm below the plane of the pcb. quite far.
2010-09-21 03:39 <tuxbrain_away> sure it will not remove all , but torsion will be less a risk ...
2010-09-21 03:40 <tuxbrain_away> well plastic is plastic, and the mould should be as expensive with that nose or not
2010-09-21 03:41 <wpwrak> one of my suggestions for the ya i had queued up would be two holes above the sd card plane where one could insert 100 mil headers. that would be pretty solid.
2010-09-21 03:41 <tuxbrain_away> good thinking :)
2010-09-21 03:42 <tuxbrain_away> but I'm thinking more on an accesory for actual ben...
2010-09-21 03:43 <wpwrak> ah, the nose could be somewhat difficult to make. for injection, it would at least need a much deeper mold (you'd have to rotate the bottom plate)
2010-09-21 03:44 <wpwrak> not sure about 3d printing. may be possible with a filler. depends a bit on the feature size.
2010-09-21 03:45 <wpwrak> (injection) and if rotating the bottom plate, it can't be flat anymore. but that may be okay in this case. could even look better.
2010-09-21 03:46 <wpwrak> makes the mold hard to mill, though. so you'd probably need a 3-part mold.
2010-09-21 03:47 <wpwrak> (hard to mill) because endmills that go deep enough would be relatively thick.
2010-09-21 03:49 <tuxbrain_away> well is matter to see how much it cost and if worth the meaning
2010-09-21 03:50 <tuxbrain_away> if it not protecct to much, maybe is just pointless such effort
2010-09-21 03:51 <tuxbrain_away> but I'm worried about the length of pcb and the tinny contact surface of attachement
2010-09-21 03:53 <wpwrak> yes, the mechanical stability isn't so nice. attaching to uSD is a great improvement upon having to cut up the lcd's pcb and running wires between the shells, but it's not perfect.
2010-09-21 03:53 <tuxbrain_away> any accidental push on the extreme and "clack" another sad  geek crying for his broken toy
2010-09-21 03:53 <wpwrak> one more sale for you ;-)
2010-09-21 03:54 <tuxbrain_away> I only want happy geeks on my shop
2010-09-21 03:54 <tuxbrain_away> I agree on the avoid on soldering to hardware hack is a really great improvement in deed :)
2010-09-21 03:55 <tuxbrain_away> this can remove the Warranty removal advice on my  future posts :)
2010-09-21 03:56 <tuxbrain_away> btw any one has attempted a soft serial by uSD yet?
2010-09-21 03:57 <wpwrak> you mean rs232 ?
2010-09-21 03:59 <tuxbrain_away> no 3V3 uart
2010-09-21 04:00 <wpwrak> yeah, that's what i meant. the rest is just level shifting :) hmm, would be tricky.
2010-09-21 04:01 <wpwrak> you could do it at high speed but tx-only with low duty cycle.
2010-09-21 04:01 <wpwrak> or at low speed. the problem is that you'd need to get an interrupt for each bit/sample. that's quite a lot, even at moderate speeds.
2010-09-21 04:02 <wpwrak> otherwise, you'd have to busy-loop until the byte is in or out.
2010-09-21 04:02 <tuxbrain_away> 9600 should be enough
2010-09-21 04:02 <wpwrak> ah, scratch tx-only. rx with low duty cycle would also be okay.
2010-09-21 04:03 <tuxbrain_away> why that difference in writting reading?
2010-09-21 04:03 <wpwrak> hmm, that's about 20 kHz interrupts or more.
2010-09-21 04:03 <wpwrak> naw, tx and rx should be the same. i didn't think that you could just interrupt on the start bit.
2010-09-21 04:05 <wpwrak> you need extremely tight interrupt latency, though. that's usually not a problem, but sometimes it is. so whenever your interrupt is late, you have some data loss or corruption.
2010-09-21 04:06 <wpwrak> of course, if your cpu is dedicated full-time to the "soft uart", then you don't have timing problems. you just busy loop.
2010-09-21 04:07 <tuxbrain_away> I have some C bit banging serial code example from carlos from my early serial attempts, never used it, and actually I have scarce time to investigate, I will try to recover it , and think how adapt it to the uSD pins
2010-09-21 04:08 <wpwrak> i would just add a cheap microcontroller that takes care of the uart timing :) you can feed it a very accurate clock from the ben, so you don't need a crystal.
2010-09-21 04:09 <tuxbrain_away> hehehe you have by passed my electronic skill by far with this sentence :P
2010-09-21 04:10 <wpwrak> ah, look at the atusd schematics and you'll see :-)
2010-09-21 04:10 <tuxbrain_away> link?
2010-09-21 04:11 <tuxbrain_away> projects.blablablablbablabla.bla
2010-09-21 04:11 <wpwrak> for quick access, http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/demo4/
2010-09-21 04:11 <wpwrak> http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/demo4/pdf_atusd.pdf
2010-09-21 04:12 <wpwrak> CLK_16M is provided by the SD/MMC clock, which I set to 16 MHz
2010-09-21 04:13 <wpwrak> that way, i don't need a crystal. works quite nicely.
2010-09-21 04:13 <tuxbrain_away> it can reach 56700 with this approach?
2010-09-21 04:13 <tuxbrain_away> also is that microcontroller aviable in more hobbist friendly format?
2010-09-21 04:14 <wpwrak> if you have a chip that implements a uart in hardware, sure. you typically need something like 4x or 16x the bit rate. so that would be at least 1 Mbps, if your circuit plays along
2010-09-21 04:14 <wpwrak> err, what would "hobbyist friendly mean" in this case ? :)
2010-09-21 04:14 <wpwrak> s/ mean"/" mean/
2010-09-21 04:14 <tuxbrain_away> easy to put in a breadboard :)
2010-09-21 04:15 <tuxbrain_away> no need to SMD
2010-09-21 04:15 <wpwrak> yikes.
2010-09-21 04:15 <wpwrak> but where's the fun ? :)
2010-09-21 04:15 <tuxbrain_away> haahahahaah
2010-09-21 04:15 <wpwrak> sure, there are tons of pics and atmels in dip packages
2010-09-21 04:15 <wolfspra1l> tuxbrain_away: what is a nice breadboard size in your opinion?
2010-09-21 04:15 <wolfspra1l> to go along with the breakout cable...
2010-09-21 04:16 <tuxbrain_away> mmm what you mean by breadboard , the soldering one or the lot of holes plastic pluggable one
2010-09-21 04:17 <tuxbrain_away> ?
2010-09-21 04:19 <tuxbrain_away> in the eschema what is the difference of AGND and DGND grounds?
2010-09-21 04:21 <tuxbrain_away> btw atusd is the hole schema for the wpan thing? is so "easy" to do?
2010-09-21 04:22 <wpwrak> agnd and dgnd aren't actually good concepts here. i copied that from the reference design. however, atmel themselves actually recommend four ground areas.
2010-09-21 04:23 <wpwrak> yes, the circuit is very simple :)
2010-09-21 04:24 <tuxbrain_away> That a good thing :)
2010-09-21 04:25 <wpwrak> what's a bit tricky is the rf side, especially the antenna tuning. the antenna design i'm using is for a thicker board. so i need to adjust the antenna. unfortunately, they don't say how. so it'll be trial and error ...
2010-09-21 04:25 <tuxbrain_away> ouch!
2010-09-21 04:26 <tuxbrain_away> yes AFAIK RF is even black magic to experts on such matter :)
2010-09-21 04:26 <tuxbrain_away> they do maths yes but at the end a lot of tolerance has to be added to results :)
2010-09-21 04:27 <wpwrak> yeah. and antenna tuning should be among the best in that regard. even adding a bit of plastic (e.g., a case) can change things quite dramatically
2010-09-21 04:29 <wolfspra1l> tuxbrain_away: I mean the "lot of holes plastic pluggable one"
2010-09-21 04:29 <wolfspra1l> do you think a soldering breadboard is better?
2010-09-21 04:32 <wpwrak> wolfspra1l: i think this is the kind rikard used: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=923273-ND
2010-09-21 04:32 <wpwrak> note the price even for such a small one
2010-09-21 04:33 <wpwrak> you would probably also have to include a set of jumper wires
2010-09-21 04:33 <tuxbrain_away> wolfspra1l: well I think they have very different funtions and on this case the soldering one not have too much sense due they are pretended to have hobbist final results , and due the size it will have will be no sense to attachech on uSD
2010-09-21 04:33 <tuxbrain_away> I have one in stock :)
2010-09-21 04:33 <tuxbrain_away> not of that model I find thos thinny ones too much tinny
2010-09-21 04:34 <wpwrak> here's a better kit. larger and with wires. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=438-1046-ND
2010-09-21 04:34 <tuxbrain_away> if you circuit has some more than just one no to much complicated mc
2010-09-21 04:35 <tuxbrain_away> hey cammon don't point to competence :P http://www.tuxbrain.com/oscommerce/products/75
2010-09-21 04:36 <wpwrak> ah, you have them too. good :)
2010-09-21 04:36 <tuxbrain_away> yes we do a mass buy directly to china manufacturer :)
2010-09-21 04:38 <tuxbrain_away> regarding the tinny model, I try it but when your circuit is a bit more complicated than just plug one microcontroler you miss a lot of holes :)
2010-09-21 04:39 <tuxbrain_away> so I find this model quite confortable and unexepensive
2010-09-21 04:39 <wpwrak> yeah, i thought more in the sense of a proof of concept. but you're right, a larger board has almost the same price.
2010-09-21 04:41 <tuxbrain_away> btw any clue when we could have some breakout uSD adaptors as first Ben NN complement?
2010-09-21 04:42 <wolfspra1l> I try to make some, but cannot commit to a date right now
2010-09-21 04:42 <wpwrak> wolfspra1l: what cost do you expect ?
2010-09-21 04:43 <wolfspra1l> first 10 maybe 15 USD/piece
2010-09-21 04:43 <tuxbrain_away> wow
2010-09-21 04:43 <wolfspra1l> I will probably do ribbon cable, not fpc
2010-09-21 04:43 <tuxbrain_away> that make sense.. less stress on the connector
2010-09-21 04:43 <wolfspra1l> tuxbrain_away: so I understand you have enough breadboard stuff already, I don't need to worry about it. great!
2010-09-21 04:44 <wolfspra1l> tuxbrain_away: wow high or wow low?
2010-09-21 04:44 <tuxbrain_away> wow high
2010-09-21 04:44 <wpwrak> yup. seems quite expensive.
2010-09-21 04:44 <wolfspra1l> good thing everybody here is used to work for free :-)
2010-09-21 04:44 <wpwrak> wolfspra1l: are you sure you asked factory.cn, not factory.ch ? :)
2010-09-21 04:46 <tuxbrain_away> hehehehe  you know the pourest multinational company qi-hardware :P
2010-09-21 04:47 <tuxbrain_away> no comunism no capitalism no money :P
2010-09-21 04:47 <wpwrak> tuxbrain_away: they'll have an article about wolfgang in Exploit - The Magazine for the Globalized Entrepreneur, "How to pay less than the Chinese" :)
2010-09-21 04:48 <wpwrak> tuxbrain_away: ;-))
2010-09-21 04:48 <tuxbrain_away> LOL
2010-09-21 04:50 <wolfspra1l> wpwrak: right.
2010-09-21 04:50 <wolfspra1l> do you want to make microsd breakout cables for 10 USD / piece?
2010-09-21 04:50 <tuxbrain_away> ok ok let's focus (a bit) I understand this 10 are prototipes so price is .... "justified" but price expected for a higher number let's say 200
2010-09-21 04:50 <wolfspra1l> please don't forget the fuse. also proper testing of each one. when it's done ship to David.
2010-09-21 04:50 <wolfspra1l> tuxbrain_away: come on in large quantities, in electronics, it's all zero.
2010-09-21 04:51 <wolfspra1l> all costs are just amortizations of one-time investements
2010-09-21 04:51 <wolfspra1l> the silicon and plastic and bit of metals is all near zero
2010-09-21 04:51 <wolfspra1l> so sure, for 100 it's already < 10 USD for sure
2010-09-21 04:51 <wolfspra1l> for 1000 even less, etc.
2010-09-21 04:51 <wolfspra1l> look at the total
2010-09-21 04:51 <wolfspra1l> 10 * 15 = 150 USD
2010-09-21 04:52 <wolfspra1l> think about the amount of work, counting really everything not like us here working 16h/day for free
2010-09-21 04:52 <tuxbrain_away> no no please the 0 asymptote discuse again not :P
2010-09-21 04:52 <wpwrak> oh, you're making only 15 ?
2010-09-21 04:52 <wolfspra1l> first I make 10, see the quality
2010-09-21 04:52 <wolfspra1l> send some people, then go from there
2010-09-21 04:52 <wolfspra1l> so for 100, let's say the price is down to 8 USD, that's 8 * 100 = 800 USD
2010-09-21 04:53 <wolfspra1l> for 1 million, I'm sure it can be done for 1 USD / piece :-)
2010-09-21 04:53 <wpwrak> for 1M it should be cents :)
2010-09-21 04:53 <wolfspra1l> I just bought some pouches (David will send you some), costing 15 US cents / piece
2010-09-21 04:53 <wolfspra1l> unbelievable
2010-09-21 04:54 <tuxbrain_away> mmm, I'm worried about selling price of breakout, more than 10¬ will be no joy
2010-09-21 04:54 <wolfspra1l> relax guys
2010-09-21 04:54 <wolfspra1l> you asked about price, I gave you one. I am paying.
2010-09-21 04:55 <tuxbrain_away> relax you too:) , I'm just doing projections about the data I have
2010-09-21 04:55 <Ornotermes> wpwrak: the solderless board on dikikey looks quite overpriced
2010-09-21 04:56 <wpwrak> Ornotermes: they're not cheap. well, the bigger one has roughly the same price as tuxbrain's.
2010-09-21 04:56 <tuxbrain_away> Ornotermes: don't think so, this bitches is quite expensive even buyed in large numbers
2010-09-21 04:57 <tuxbrain_away> at least if you want a quite bit of quality
2010-09-21 04:57 <wolfspra1l> aha :-)
2010-09-21 04:57 <wolfspra1l> tuxbrain is reality man...
2010-09-21 04:58 <Ornotermes> the small one i have cost like USD 4.25+vat for two pcs in sweden
2010-09-21 04:59 <tuxbrain_away> yes, I even see the small one cheaper, I was thinking on the larger one
2010-09-21 04:59 <tuxbrain_away> but as I said I found the smaller less practical
2010-09-21 04:59 <Ornotermes> the bigger looks more renable
2010-09-21 04:59 <Ornotermes> resonable
2010-09-21 04:59 <wpwrak> USD 3/each sounds more like what i imagined for the small one
2010-09-21 05:00 <wpwrak> i was thinking of a combination of cheap cable plus small board. of course, if the cable is so expensive ...
2010-09-21 05:02 <Ornotermes> i buy most things here: http://swechtrading.se/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=44 (a USD cost about 7.31 SEK)
2010-09-21 05:02 <Ornotermes> and their prices inclute VAT
2010-09-21 05:03 <tuxbrain_away> I think I should offer the breadboard+wires+breakout for 20¬/25¬
2010-09-21 05:04 <tuxbrain_away> maybe I will add some leds and resistors to the package to complete without extra price
2010-09-21 05:04 <Ornotermes> tuxbrain_away: try to find suppliers in china if you don't have, shuld be a lot cheaper to buy breadbords from there
2010-09-21 05:05 <tuxbrain_away> you arrive late at the conversation, I also made a 1K order to china manufacturer
2010-09-21 05:06 <Ornotermes> oh, ok
2010-09-21 05:06 <tuxbrain_away> I have a lot of stock :) , luckily they are selling quite good
2010-09-21 05:06 <Ornotermes> i noticed i was highlighted when i got out of the shower :P
2010-09-21 05:07 <wpwrak> this took a moment to parse :)
2010-09-21 05:07 <tuxbrain_away> but as I said, was not ease to find a balance on price/quality, I see really cheap crap with closed holes and bad contacts...
2010-09-21 05:09 <wpwrak> tuxbrain_away: http://www.theonion.com/articles/chinese-factory-worker-cant-believe-the-shit-he-ma,1343/
2010-09-21 05:09 <tuxbrain_away> and expensive ones than for it's price you should tell the board what to do with natural language and work with wireless energy taked from air , but not it was just a piece of plastic waiting for components to be plugged
2010-09-21 05:15 <Ornotermes> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-09-21/ wow, i didn't knew dilbert worked at apple ;)
2010-09-21 05:25 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ben-lcdframe-back-1mm is done. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/6186a72
2010-09-21 07:41 <kristianpaul> tuxbrain_away: if you can do a simple stecht of your idea about the case will be asier for me to understand where it goes in the design
2010-09-21 07:49 <qi-bot> [commit] kyak: Support two-byte characters in console http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/343b7ed
2010-09-21 08:16 <qi-bot> [commit] kyak: Added input (typing) and output (viewing) support for cyrillic in http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/a8aff41
2010-09-21 12:26 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ben-lcdframe-back-500um is done. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/d5001c6
2010-09-21 12:27 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: he's looking for an extension of the case at the antenna end, there it goes lower and then has a "nose" that goes into the little hole the ben has for a lanyard
2010-09-21 12:27 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: so if you push from above or below, the force would go to that nose and not act like a lever on the micro-SD slot
2010-09-21 12:28 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: not sure if it would really make sense, though. most likely, you'd just shear off the small plastic nose while the rest of the board wouldn't even notice what's happening
2010-09-21 12:32 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: that is, unless you have a really strong plastic that resists to shear like steel
2010-09-21 12:33 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: btw, what sort of plastic are you using for extrusion ? may have properties that also make it interesting for DIY injection molding.
2010-09-21 12:43 <kyak> bartbes: are you there?
2010-09-21 12:43 <bartbes> yeah
2010-09-21 12:44 <kyak> i've noticed that though i have libncursesw selected, the CONFIGURE_ARGS (specifically, --enable-widec) is not passed to configure script
2010-09-21 12:44 <kyak> does this "VARIANT" thing work at all?
2010-09-21 12:44 <bartbes> well...
2010-09-21 12:44 <bartbes> you should ask larsc
2010-09-21 12:45 <kyak> ok..
2010-09-21 12:45 <kyak> larsc: do you know perhaps what could be the problem?
2010-09-21 12:45 <kyak> at the end i end up with libncursesw libraries as well as libncurses, but there is obviously no wide char support
2010-09-21 12:46 <kyak> configure says "checking if you want wide-character code... no"
2010-09-21 12:47 <kyak> (now that i have cyrillic utf-8 in console, i want to build lynx with multibyte support)
2010-09-21 12:47 <bartbes> well, it worked when I delivered it to larsc, he said he needed to make some more changes
2010-09-21 12:47 <bartbes> and now apparently it fails
2010-09-21 12:48 <bartbes> doesn't want to be blamed ;)
2010-09-21 12:50 <kyak> hm, can you show your original version?
2010-09-21 12:51 <bartbes> I don't think I still have it
2010-09-21 12:51 <larsc> in theory it should work ;)
2010-09-21 12:53 <bartbes> well, it might be the reason why I never got wordgrinder to build either
2010-09-21 12:54 <kyak> i think it should build two times:
2010-09-21 12:54 <kyak> first times it should build libncurses, second time libncursesw
2010-09-21 12:55 <larsc> yes
2010-09-21 12:56 <larsc> thats what it should do
2010-09-21 12:56 <larsc> (in theory)
2010-09-21 12:56 <larsc> and at least did at some point in practice
2010-09-21 12:58 <kyak> larsc: while you are here, can i ask for another favor: feeds/packages/utils/vim/Makefile should have "--enable-multibyte" instead of "--disable-multibyte"
2010-09-21 12:58 <kyak> only this way i can make utf-8 work in vim
2010-09-21 12:59 <kyak> for vi (built-in busybox) it is enough to have CONFIG_BUSYBOX_CONFIG_FEATURE_VI_8BIT=y
2010-09-21 13:01 <kyak> also i think you should disregard my previous concerns about libncursesw... the second time (when it build libncursesw configure says "checking if you want wide-character code... yes"
2010-09-21 13:01 <kyak> so i'll continue digging on lynx's side
2010-09-21 13:02 <larsc> kyak: configure:6814: checking if you want wide-character code
2010-09-21 13:02 <larsc> configure:6824: result: yes
2010-09-21 13:02 <kyak> yes. soory for confusion
2010-09-21 13:02 <kyak> i only noticed the first time build before
2010-09-21 13:02 <kyak> where it said "no" for libncurses
2010-09-21 13:03 <bartbes> ...
2010-09-21 13:03 <bartbes> looks at larsc 
2010-09-21 13:03 <bartbes> time for payback?
2010-09-21 13:04 <larsc> nope
2010-09-21 13:04 <bartbes> hehe
2010-09-21 13:04 <larsc> no time ;)
2010-09-21 13:05 <kyak> larsc: what about vim? i think i have access to upstream OpenWrt
2010-09-21 13:05 <kyak> *you have
2010-09-21 13:08 <larsc> yes. but i'm not sure whether that change is wanted
2010-09-21 13:09 <kyak> why not? it won't affect existing users experience
2010-09-21 13:10 <kyak> also, i assume that those who want minimal vi, are satisfied with the one from busybox.. when they install vim-full they should expect multibye support (my opinion)
2010-09-21 13:11 <larsc> i'll think about it.
2010-09-21 13:11 <larsc> better ask mirko. i think he is more likely to merge such a patch
2010-09-21 13:11 <kyak> ok, thank you
2010-09-21 13:54 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: BAS
2010-09-21 13:54 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: ABS is the plastic
2010-09-21 13:55 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: i also have some nice balck PLA i think ill try that at last when got better design
2010-09-21 13:58 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: are you lanning do you own plastic molding machine? cool :D
2010-09-21 14:03 <wpwrak> i;m trying to find out what it would take. industrial injection molding has some scary properties, but some of them may exist simply because of specific requirements.
2010-09-21 14:08 <wpwrak> abs doesnt't look bad. in many ways similar to polyethylene. now if i could just find the mfr/mfi ...
2010-09-21 14:12 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: http://store.makerbot.com/plastic/red-abs-plastic-1.html the RED abs i used
2010-09-21 14:12 <kristianpaul> i dont see datasheet but i t should be
2010-09-21 14:12 <kristianpaul> i'll ask makerbot if you consider i should?
2010-09-21 14:20 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: i think i found a place with answers already: http://www.matweb.com/search/PropertySearch.aspx
2010-09-21 14:22 <wpwrak> LDPE should still flow better than ABS. about twice as well.
2010-09-21 14:26 <wpwrak> abs can handle more mechanical abuse, that's for sure.
2010-09-21 14:33 <rafa> ta taaaan!
2010-09-21 14:34 <wpwrak> rafa: good morning, too :-)
2010-09-21 14:35 <rafa> haha
2010-09-21 14:35 <rafa> :)
2010-09-21 14:36 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: what's interesting is that these plastics melt flow at pretty low temperatures. only ~105-120 C. i wonder if one could just heat a block of wood and use that as a mold, given enough time. (if the mold is hot, then there's no rush in injecting the plastic)
2010-09-21 14:47 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: ABS also uses much higher injection pressure than PE. ABS ~80 MPa, PE ~10 MPa. a DIY injector should be able to produce something around 1-10 MPa.
2010-09-21 14:49 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: actually .. i wonder if you really need more than a threaded tube you can heat, plus a large screw. add a motor and you have a servo-controlled injector, the pinnacle of injection techniques :)
2010-09-21 14:56 <wpwrak> (injection pressure) oops, that was another plastic. nope, only about 50 MPa for ABS and 80 MPa for LDPE. LLDPE would go as low as 10 MPa. grmbl.
2010-09-21 16:23 <kristianpaul> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11379089
2010-09-21 16:27 <urandom__> bah fuck off intel!
2010-09-21 16:35 <wpwrak> a marketing strategy designed to be controversial ;-)
2010-09-21 18:08 <qi-bot> [commit] Carlos Camargo: Adding file-system http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/9116375