2010-09-16 00:00 also, considering that jlime doesn't seem to need anything like this, they're probably also quite unnecessary 2010-09-16 00:08 [commit] Werner Almesberger: usrp/: a set of utilities for testing board performance with an USRP2 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/e445fe1 2010-09-16 00:44 guys 2010-09-16 00:44 can't get the thing to even turn on 2010-09-16 00:45 or go into usb mode 2010-09-16 00:45 trying to short the pin but I must be doing it wrong 2010-09-16 00:47 someone please help??? 2010-09-16 00:48 :( 2010-09-16 00:49 qwebirc14268: it can be a bit tricky to short the pins, what are you using? 2010-09-16 00:50 honestly not sure what I am SUPPOSED to use 2010-09-16 00:50 tried using a rubber thing on the end of my usb flash drive 2010-09-16 00:50 metal 2010-09-16 00:50 my hand 2010-09-16 00:50 plastic 2010-09-16 00:51 my nanonote came with a spare rubber button that works perfectly. my attempts with paperclips and peices of foil were failures, but supposedly do work with enough attempts. 2010-09-16 00:51 Textmode: mine I am afraid did not come with that 2010-09-16 00:52 also, you are making sure to completely powerdown the unit before trying, right? romoved battery, disconnected usb cable 2010-09-16 00:52 removed* 2010-09-16 00:52 roger 2010-09-16 00:52 even shorting the pin before I put in the usb 2010-09-16 00:53 and you've confirmed its not showing up on the host computer? (remember, in USB mode, the screen stays blank, and led goes dim) 2010-09-16 00:53 yes I am using lsusb 2010-09-16 00:54 Textmode: I had it working fine but now my unit wont come up period after I tryed to flash the latest testing build 2010-09-16 00:54 Textmode: can't get usb mode nor normal bootup 2010-09-16 00:55 whenever I plug in the usb with the battery out 2010-09-16 00:55 the led flashes briefly but then goes dim 2010-09-16 00:55 I check the PC with lsusb and the nano note is note showing 2010-09-16 00:56 *is* showing? 2010-09-16 00:56 *not 2010-09-16 00:56 *is not showing 2010-09-16 00:57 I'm guessing you have no broken devices you can canabilise for rubber buttons? (those are really the most reliable way) 2010-09-16 00:57 carbonised rubber buttons* 2010-09-16 00:58 strands of uncaoted copper wire? 2010-09-16 00:58 wait. May have some copper wire 2010-09-16 00:59 a piece of sticky tape to hold it in place might be a good idea (reduces the need for a steady hand) 2010-09-16 01:00 grabbing some speaker wire 2010-09-16 01:04 nothing 2010-09-16 01:04 pretty sure the speaker wire is copper 2010-09-16 01:05 I know from experiance those USB boot pins can be pretty stubburn if you don't have that little button... 2010-09-16 01:05 wellll this is quite a predicament 2010-09-16 01:05 shame mine didn't come with one :/ 2010-09-16 01:06 rage 2010-09-16 01:07 did you get yours early on? I think they didn't include it in the beginning... 2010-09-16 01:08 i just got mine 2010-09-16 01:08 where was it packaged at? 2010-09-16 01:09 the button 2010-09-16 01:09 in a small ziploc, in the smaller box used to hold the cables and manual for the nanonote. 2010-09-16 01:10 qwebirc14268: oh, and while I did have the little rubber button...I was missing the battery :P (though they sent me *two* later on) 2010-09-16 01:11 Textmode: found the little bastard and a polish cloth :D 2010-09-16 01:11 hehe 2010-09-16 01:11 I have to have a shower and leggit, so goodluck. 2010-09-16 01:12 got it!!!' 2010-09-16 01:12 thanks Textmode 2010-09-16 01:16 anyone have advice on whats the best version to flash right now?? 2010-09-16 01:17 anyone?? This would be great info for me. 2010-09-16 01:18 I've only really tried jlime (decent, but I think it uses X, which uses far too much ram), and the offcial distro (bland, but reliable) 2010-09-16 01:19 I tried to install debian, but failed (though others seem to have more luck) 2010-09-16 01:19 Textmode: thats actually the answer to another question I had haha. What I am trying to ask now is which one of these should I use.http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/ 2010-09-16 01:21 which one of those are you using? with the one that came stock I had problems with my LCD kind of flickering. I was warned it was a problem with the ben that was shipped to me when they sent me my order update in my email 2010-09-16 01:24 ?? 2010-09-16 01:33 nprog 2048 openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-root.ubi 0 0 -n that command never wants to work unless I spam it about 30 times 2010-09-16 04:02 wpwrak: ah.. okey.. so if it works from time to time maybe the current environment has something to do with usbboot? 2010-09-16 04:25 Anyone have any luck running nethack on the nano note? I get an error "cannot open alock.0 2010-09-16 04:32 anyone? Help would be greatly appreciated. 2010-09-16 04:35 wolfspraul & Textmode: Have you had any luck getting nethack to run on the nano note? 2010-09-16 04:36 you can run rouge a nethack clone with graphical GUI 2010-09-16 04:39 elricsfate: no, never tried 2010-09-16 04:41 wolfspraul: Roger :(. Have you ever seen the error "Cannot open alock.0" or know what might cause it? 2010-09-16 04:41 no, also not... 2010-09-16 04:43 roger. I actually emailed the maintainer of the binary to see if he knew what the problem might be. Right now the basic system is setup and running well. Mounts the data partition and all that on its on. Going to automate net sharing soon. 2010-09-16 05:08 elricsfate: the usbboot problem may be about to get fixed. i had the same thing happen. you're using the pre-compiled .deb file, right ? 2010-09-16 05:09 elricsfate: a quick work-around would be to rename the file to something else, e.g., foo. then flash that. 2010-09-16 05:09 wpwrak: i managed to get it booted and working 2010-09-16 05:09 wpwrak: my only problmem now is I can't seem to get nethack working 2010-09-16 05:10 wpwrak: have you tried getting nethack to work? 2010-09-16 05:10 nope 2010-09-16 05:11 wpwrak: alright. Man am I the only guy on nano note who likes nethack? haha. It seems like the perfect portable nethack player to me 2010-09-16 05:11 the whole rogue family of games certainly benefits from having a decent keyboard :) 2010-09-16 05:28 wpwrak: agreed. The nano note keyboard i pretty good I think 2010-09-16 05:33 it's better than many, it has a few misfeatures. e.g.,  you don't really need the red arrow and the blue fn. also space and enter could be bigger. 2010-09-16 07:23 elricsfate: nethack is on the extra jlime repositories.. you can try that if you wnt.. if you have debian it will be on its repos as well surely 2010-09-16 07:27 wpwrak: do you remember our discussion about password databases? how would you manage lots of passwords? i'm to stupid to remember 50+ different passwords and usernames. 2010-09-16 07:32 derRichard: what is password databasess> 2010-09-16 07:32 ? 2010-09-16 07:33 is not useful for you passwd/shadow? 2010-09-16 07:33 rafa: a database to store passwords. e.g. http://keepass.info/ 2010-09-16 07:34 to store pins, bank accounts, etc... 2010-09-16 07:34 an ecrypteded file ? :) 2010-09-16 07:36 it's not that easy. when you decrypt the file you cannot store the plaintext on disk, you have to protect your programm againt ptrace(), etc... 2010-09-16 07:37 my idea was to use ben as password database. but wpwrak pointed out that this is maybe a bad idea because somebody could install on ben a keylogger and read your master password... 2010-09-16 07:39 use voice 2010-09-16 07:39 to tell nn the master password.. of course, nobody should hear you 2010-09-16 07:40 voice as authentication is a mess 2010-09-16 07:40 forget voice 2010-09-16 07:40 derRichard: i guess that it depends how far you want to go with a password database 2010-09-16 07:40 nothing is secure 2010-09-16 07:41 currenty, ekopary is happening in argentina i guess.. you could try to ask them as well ;) 2010-09-16 07:41 ekoparty* 2010-09-16 07:42 what should i ask him? 2010-09-16 07:42 what to use 2010-09-16 07:43 if they do not know afer checking your requirements (how far to go) then nobody will know I guess 2010-09-16 07:43 ;) 2010-09-16 07:44 on ben i have not much options. keyboard or voive. both are vulnerable to keylogger/voiceloggers 2010-09-16 07:46 derRichard: well, that is why I would advise to ask them 2010-09-16 07:46 :) 2010-09-16 07:46 so you can know if there are some way that you can not see right now 2010-09-16 07:47 updated wiki page with photos of the band with the nanonote.. LOL http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_Nanowar_Edition 2010-09-16 07:50 tuxbrain2: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Members_of_Nanowar_with_NanoNote_11.jpg 2010-09-16 07:51 YEAAAAHH[C[C[C!! 2010-09-16 07:51 :D 2010-09-16 07:51 :D 2010-09-16 07:53 yeah, rock stars they will lick even a rotten cactus for his fans XD 2010-09-16 07:53 that is true love for BNN 2010-09-16 07:54 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Members_of_Nanowar_with_NanoNote_21.jpg 2010-09-16 07:54 :D 2010-09-16 09:13 derRichard: (many passwords) i would have a set of master passwords for groups of account/password/description entries. one could of course just have one master password, if that fits the needs. 2010-09-16 09:14 rafa: (keylogger) signed binaries would be a solution. simply don't run anything (or at least warn) you haven't verified. one difficulty is in getting into the boot process sufficiently early. 2010-09-16 09:15 rafa: another difficulty is how to make this work with the concept of the ben as a general-purpose machine. i.e., if someone chooses to run "insecure" binaries, the mechanism that checks the signed things shouldn't be too intrusive. 2010-09-16 09:16 tuxbrain2: cool pictures :) 2010-09-16 09:17 tuxbrain2: now someone would have to make heise.de include it in their newsticker :) 2010-09-16 09:17 tuxbrain2, rafa: congrats 2010-09-16 12:11 DocScrutinizer: antenna tuning is tricky business. do you think a distance of 50 cm between sender and receiver is sufficient ? (i want them to be relatively close to be well above any background noise) 2010-09-16 12:14 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: decide use 2007-1 as the debian package's 'upstream source tarball' http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/0dd4f1e 2010-09-16 12:25 wpwrak: Hi. there is the 201007-1 debian package files: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/xburst-tools/downloads/ 2010-09-16 12:25 I just uploaded. sorry for so late. 2010-09-16 12:26 a lot of thing need to do :) 2010-09-16 12:28 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update VERSION typo http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/2684c72 2010-09-16 12:36 xiangfu: thanks a lot ! i'll give them a try in a moment 2010-09-16 12:37 wpwrak: I also send one email to list. and add some Changelog in mail. :) 2010-09-16 12:37 wpwrak: hope this new version works for you :) 2010-09-16 12:40 time to sleep . see you 2010-09-16 13:13 wpwrak: 10 .. 20 wavelengths minimum 2010-09-16 13:15 hmm, 1.5-3 m then 2010-09-16 13:16 this will get tricky. i guess i'll have to set up my little rf lab in the guest room. there i least have 3 m of free space. 2010-09-16 13:16 well, 12.5-2.5 m actually. a bit less :) 2010-09-16 13:22 also keep in mind with tuning you also change directional properties. While they aren't that relevant for everyday usage, you should do several probes with changed orientation for each tuning step, not to trip over a local minimum or maximum 2010-09-16 13:24 but in the end the whole tuning stuff isn't an exact science, and a +-20% are usually just good enough (actually very good) 2010-09-16 13:24 ah, thanks. hmm, i need to make that stuff faster. right now, it takes about 12 minutes to walk all channels and do a test transmission on each. 2010-09-16 13:25 omg, all chan? 2010-09-16 13:25 just tune center freq! 2010-09-16 13:26 yes, taht's what i mean. set the center frequency to each channel. 2010-09-16 13:26 the test setup is with the ben sending and the usrp receiving. 2010-09-16 13:26 (20%) i currently see differences in the range of up to 8 dB. still a way to go :) 2010-09-16 13:28 I meant if you got chan1..12 then use only chan6 for all tuning, except very last quality control to rule out unusual dips or other unexpected effects 2010-09-16 13:30 if you want to go fancy, then probe chan1, 6, 12 and make sure they don't differ too much 2010-09-16 13:31 though with massively detuned antenna you might see max on chan6 and min on chan8 2010-09-16 13:31 what i'm trying to do is to find the peak. i think what the tuning really does is move the "valley" of the standing wave, no ? 2010-09-16 13:31 yes, that's a bit what happens now 2010-09-16 13:31 a good and tuned antenna design is immune to such small freq varuations 2010-09-16 13:32 -21 dB at ch 1, -29 dB on ch 14 2010-09-16 13:32 the "good tuned" is where i still have to get :) 2010-09-16 13:32 yep, it moves the freq of best performance, of an ideally rather smooth hillshaped curve 2010-09-16 13:33 the ones with the little tail you suggested perform better, by the way. still some odditied, though. 2010-09-16 13:33 hmm 2010-09-16 13:33 and the boards per se act strangely, with power stability problems. may have been a soldering issue, though. (those damn manual vias) 2010-09-16 13:34 eek 2010-09-16 13:35 -21:1, -29:14 sounds like your sweet spot is somewhere next to chan -25 2010-09-16 13:36 you got a spectrum analyzer? :-D 2010-09-16 13:37 do you know how we tuned small antennae in the ole' days? 2010-09-16 13:37 i have an usrp2 2010-09-16 13:38 short foot point with nominal impedance shunt, use dipmeter to find resonance freq, tune antenna a bit, find new 'dip' with dipmeter 2010-09-16 13:38 what's a dipmeter ? 2010-09-16 13:39 an open oscillator, tunable 2010-09-16 13:39 with a meter showing how much energy is drawn from the open L-C 2010-09-16 13:40 http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&source=hp&q=dipmeter&aq=f&aqi=g3&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= 2010-09-16 13:40 http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Dipmeter/Dipmeter.htm 2010-09-16 13:41 of course nowadays those are built from 2 or 3 transistors, not valves :-P 2010-09-16 13:42 oh, nice. the tunable oscillator i have. but the usrp doesn't tell me how much energy it outputs. 2010-09-16 13:42 but then, the energy could go anywhere, no ? e.g., into the air or burnt due to reflections 2010-09-16 13:46 nope, usually the energy is absorbed by the coupled DUT. That's btw also the reason to keep a sufficient distance between DUT and receiver if you do _not_ want coupling effects 2010-09-16 13:48 of course on plain air operation mode (without DUT) such a dipmeter should be relatively linear. If it has own resonances, you can't really use it properly for probing other resonances 2010-09-16 13:49 http://www.dj4uf.de/projekt/dipmeter/dipmeter.html 2010-09-16 13:49 (coupling effect) ah, i see 2010-09-16 13:49 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Measurement results and a script to view them. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/dce0a19 2010-09-16 13:50 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ben-dispshell-inside, 500 um and 100 um are done. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/d6cbffc 2010-09-16 13:51 Question 2010-09-16 13:51 DocScrutinizer: btw, http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/usrp has the antenna tuning stuff 2010-09-16 13:52 if I build a rootfs in ubifs, and I build a kernel, can I use qemu to boot that? 2010-09-16 13:52 DocScrutinizer: step-* are the results, plot is a script to plot them with gnuplot. e.g.,  ./plot step-A 2010-09-16 13:52 I can build a kernel 'comfortable for qemu', but I'd like an ubifs exactly like would be in the nanonote 2010-09-16 13:54 DocScrutinizer: the dipmeter wikimedia page has a good article in Catalan. How good! I didn't know this 2010-09-16 13:59 wpwrak: I had this one in the early 80s: http://cgi.ebay.de/dip-meter-leader-LOM-815_W0QQitemZ150492406967QQcategoryZ12966QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo=SIC&its=I&itu=UCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI&otn=4&pmod=280558170923&ps=63&clkid=5639887256343155173 2010-09-16 14:01 DocScrutinizer: nice :) now the same but 10 times faster :) 2010-09-16 14:02 uhm, yea it probably was up to 180MHz or sth 2010-09-16 14:06 wpwrak: if you have a really decent storage scope or a spectrum analyzer, you can connect either to shunt on footpoint (or feedpoint?) of antenna, and then energize the antenna with a pulse - possibly created by a spark next to it. You should be able to tell ant f0 from either of those instruments 2010-09-16 14:09 all i have in terms of spectrum analyzer is the usrp2. 12 bit ADC, 2.4-2.5 GHz (plus some more in the 5.8 GHz band). my scope is the good old rigol. 100 MHz, 400 MSa/s, deep memory. 2010-09-16 14:11 err, nice... but I think the usrp ADC should be better choice :-) 2010-09-16 14:11 than rigol 2010-09-16 14:12 yeah, i hope so :) 2010-09-16 14:13 if only I had taken the opportunity to get a decent scope when Wolfgang freed some budget for EE 2010-09-16 14:16 one problem with the usrp2 is that it lets me pick only about 25 MHz of the spectrum at a time (decimation limit) 2010-09-16 14:16 so i can't see the whole 2.4-2.5 GHz band at once. 2010-09-16 14:17 that's why i step through the channels 2010-09-16 14:20 is this technology you are using a spread spectrum modulation? 2010-09-16 14:21 yes, it's DSSS 2010-09-16 14:21 whatever that is 2010-09-16 14:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-sequence_spread_spectrum 2010-09-16 14:22 so now I see why you step thru the channels :-) 2010-09-16 14:22 don't do that, just optimize for center frequency of your signal 2010-09-16 14:22 (wlan uses it, too. well, god old 802.11b) 2010-09-16 14:23 oh, that's what i do. but i step my signal through all the channels. that way, i can see (or at least hope to), in which direction the peak lies. 2010-09-16 14:24 if you look at the plots, they have a clear tendency. i just wish they were a little more consistent. step-A is the original antenna. step-I and step-II should be the same. they have the antenna with the 1.5 mm tail. 2010-09-16 14:26 it *seems* that step-II is like step-A but shifted by something like 60 MHz to the right 2010-09-16 14:26 or maybe it's shifted to the left, with not so deep a drop. but then, what we shuld see is a maximum, not a minimum 2010-09-16 14:27 i'll run another set of tests. need to remove that big water bag of myself, though. if ti sit on the pc, things get incredibly weird. 2010-09-16 15:48 Hi guys 2010-09-16 15:48 anyone have any advice on getting nethack working on the default openwrt firmware? 2010-09-16 15:48 I am receiving a strange error. Help would be appreciated 2010-09-16 18:21 [commit] Werner Almesberger: ben-baseframe-top: 1 mm and 500 um scans. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-scans/750e720 2010-09-16 18:58 yo 2010-09-16 18:58 anyone around? 2010-09-16 20:36 CongoZombie: hi 2010-09-16 20:55 I'm trying to set up openwrt on the dingoo a320 and I can't get usb ethernet to work 2010-09-16 20:56 just wondered if you guys knew if there was anything I might be missing getting it to work with openwrt 2010-09-16 20:56 I'm using the qi-hardware fork of openwrt-xburst 2010-09-16 21:25 hmm 2010-09-16 21:25 CongoZombie: i know zear have a dingo 2010-09-16 21:25 bus is not here right now 2010-09-16 21:25 yeah 2010-09-16 21:25 I'll ask him 2010-09-16 21:25 :) 2010-09-16 21:25 though to be honest, not sure he'll be much help 2010-09-16 21:26 since we're using the new kernel (2.6.35) 2010-09-16 21:31 who knows.. 2010-09-16 21:32 or write to the mailing list :) ! 2010-09-16 23:21 kristianpaul: writing to the list is generally a good idea if you can't catch someone who can help immediately :) 2010-09-16 23:30 wpwrak: i wonder how quickly can be the list compared with irc response time... some times.. 2010-09-16 23:34 Hi all 2010-09-16 23:37 hey osokuro 2010-09-16 23:38 How're we doing tonight? 2010-09-16 23:40 kristianpaul: i think its less response time than wasting other people's time. not everyone on the list may be interested in any tiny problem that's quickly solved anyway. but of course, if it's something bigger, that's a good reason to escalate. 2010-09-16 23:45 who knows.. smaller problems end on big threads some times :) 2010-09-16 23:45 that too :)