2010-09-09 01:34 Hi all. I found the 0.9.32 uClibc enable the NPTL. I am not sure if this NPTL make "dgclock" "mkfs.ext2" not work. 2010-09-09 01:34 I found those info about NPTL in uClibc's menuconfig: 2010-09-09 01:34 http://pastebin.com/PMGXymGC 2010-09-09 01:35 xiangfu: I think I remember Mirko said that nptl might be necessary for some new qt version. not sure though. 2010-09-09 01:49 there is a problem: 0.9.32 uClibc stop some programs from working correctly. At the same time, those programs work correctly with 0.9.30.1 uClibc, but then qt4 acts weird. For example, it can't correctly exit an application that uses directfb 2010-09-09 01:49 i'm talking about NanoMap, but i also tested it with a qt4 "hello world" 2010-09-09 01:52 and i also mentioned several times it has something to do with nptl, because uClibc 0.9.30.1 lacks nptl and some threads of qt4 are not terminated correctly (just an assumption). at the same time, some other application (by their old design, i assume) can't work correctly with nptl version of uClibc 2010-09-09 02:01 kyak: ok! :-) and what now? 2010-09-09 02:02 I suggest we try to fix the 0.9.32 with nptl version. 2010-09-09 02:02 now nothing 2010-09-09 02:02 i pinged mirko some time ago with questions about qt4-* pacakges, but he's not around 2010-09-09 02:03 i think he's the only one who can figure out this issues with qt4 2010-09-09 02:03 he's in Bali :-) 2010-09-09 02:03 he will only return in October 2010-09-09 02:03 oh 2010-09-09 02:03 i remember 2010-09-09 02:03 he went to Bali by mistake :) 2010-09-09 02:03 pretty funny 2010-09-09 02:05 http://nanl.de/blog/2010/09/422/ 2010-09-09 02:05 http://nanl.de/blog/2010/09/ubud/ 2010-09-09 03:00 hello all 2010-09-09 03:01 anyone not idling? 2010-09-09 03:02 well anyway I am looking for some fun ideas on what to do with my soon to be nano note 2010-09-09 03:03 anyone have any suggestions? 2010-09-09 03:05 define "fun" 2010-09-09 03:06 fun= something thrilling, entertaining, or educating. 2010-09-09 03:07 I am already looking into using it to flash arudino which will be rather useful 2010-09-09 03:09 I have plenty of ideas for the Arduino I have coming in but not to many for the nanonote 2010-09-09 03:11 i've found it interesting for myself to play with openwrt toolchain 2010-09-09 03:12 and porting some software, too 2010-09-09 03:12 very educating 2010-09-09 03:12 elricsfate: thanks for buying one, first of all! what are you good at, and what do you want to learn? 2010-09-09 03:13 kyak: Roger. I have thought about installing an internal wireless card by stripping a small linux compatible wireless usb card. 2010-09-09 03:15 not possible, cause Ben lacks for usb host -\ 2010-09-09 03:15 however, you can buy a microSD Wi-Fi card 2010-09-09 03:16 (i had one, but never got it working, and at was broken at the end) 2010-09-09 03:17 wolfspraul: I have general linux knowledge. Most of my knowledge pertains to troubleshooting and system/network administration. As far as what I would like to learn? As much as I can about everything haha. I am dabbling in electronics and the such (have an Arduino coming in the mail. Lots of ideas for that) and I am currently a computer science major (I am a freshman and haven't started in on the programming part yet) . I wo 2010-09-09 03:17 wolfspraul: So basically I am telling you I intend this to be a large learning experience. Haha. 2010-09-09 03:17 wolfspraul: Also your welcome. 2010-09-09 03:18 ...and IRC's 512 bytes limitation comes in action :) 2010-09-09 03:18 kyak: your wifi card broke? didn't know that. what happened? 2010-09-09 03:18 elricsfate: wow, yeah. you seem open minded. 2010-09-09 03:19 kyak: Damn :/ there goes that idea. I am sure I can find some way to make it internal. 2010-09-09 03:19 wolfspraul: i'm not sure.. at some point i was gentle enough inserting it into microSD slot -\ first it started pilling off (the external plastic), then it became completely useless 2010-09-09 03:19 *i wasn't gentle 2010-09-09 03:20 wolfspraul: I try to be. I enjoy learning. I started working on computers when I was about 12. 2010-09-09 03:21 elricsfate: the best challenge, and way to learn for you, around the NanoNote is probably to make it as useful as possible on the software side. 2010-09-09 03:21 the arduino will be better suited to hookup some simple peripherals etc. 2010-09-09 03:22 so maybe like kyak dive into the OpenWrt system 2010-09-09 03:22 we are trying to bring more and more valuable software and content to the NanoNote 2010-09-09 03:22 like NanoMap, offline wiki readers, dictionaries, etc. 2010-09-09 03:23 it's not a smartphone, it lacks tons of 'sexy features', like 3G, Wi-Fi, touchscreen, USB Host/on-the-go, GPS, whatnot 2010-09-09 03:23 wolfspraul: Roger. Luckily thats where most of my experience is at. Making things mesh together into something coherent. Now if I would just learn to code haha. 2010-09-09 03:23 yes the NanoNote, if you are patient, will allow you to dive deeper that's for sure 2010-09-09 03:23 but it's an exercise in frustration tolerance, gotta know :-) 2010-09-09 03:24 wolfspraul: thats the great thing about the system. it lacks "useless feautures" lol. 2010-09-09 03:24 so I use mine mostly for note taking on trips (vi) 2010-09-09 03:24 that's not enough! 2010-09-09 03:24 but getting more onto it is a big challenge, luckily many people help, we have a projects server, people are contributing etc. 2010-09-09 03:25 if I look at the hardware specs, and I imagine what it _could_ do (theoretically) after I press the power-on button, oh well, we are maybe able to actually do 5% of that today 2010-09-09 03:25 wolfspraul: Trust me frustration I am used to. I actually work for a GSP company. linuxgamingservers.com. I once stayed up until 5 in the morning helping my boss try and figure out how to get a non-linux native garrysmod server running correctly. That was fun. SSH FTW. 2010-09-09 03:26 theoretically, you press the power-on, it's up in 3 seconds, and it gives you lots of useful apps, pim, music/video viewer, games, dictionary/wiki/maps. it can sync with your notebook when you plug it in. software can easily be updated. and so on. 2010-09-09 03:26 that's the theory 2010-09-09 03:26 wolfspraul: That sounds pretty easy to make happen if thats what you envision for this device. :D I am optimist I guess. 2010-09-09 03:26 the reality today is 5% of that, especially for non-technical end users who cannot install this or that or work their way through configuration and terminals 2010-09-09 03:27 but ... all is not lost yet :-) we are around, improving the little thing, and slowly people are joining too, so I'm glad you show up here! 2010-09-09 03:27 there are many things going on on the hardware side too, but they are a bit harder for you to jump into 2010-09-09 03:28 some GPS hacking, some 802.15.4 RF hacking, 3D work, a board that adds an FPGA (SIE), a whole GPL licensed CPU actually (Milkymist) 2010-09-09 03:28 and a camera too (Xue) 2010-09-09 03:28 wolfspraul: I have seen that debian (which I will most likely install) has been ported to the nano note. 2010-09-09 03:29 yes 2010-09-09 03:29 on this channel, the most active Debian guy right now seems to be nebajoth 2010-09-09 03:29 wolfspraul: I believe (I am going to see how it works and all) it would be much easier for an end user to work with something such as debian 2010-09-09 03:30 well you have to try, there are many pros and cons 2010-09-09 03:30 32 MB SDRAM is a big limitation for Debian 2010-09-09 03:30 wolfspraul: I know you have your vision of the device and I think debian would allow you to reach that vision rather quickly. 2010-09-09 03:30 Agreed the RAM is a problem 2010-09-09 03:30 the Debian situation should get better after more kernel features go upstream, which will happen in a big way in 2.6.36 2010-09-09 03:30 and then boot time 2010-09-09 03:31 but I am curious. Shouldn't it be possible to use the nand flash as a sort of cache? I know it won't be as fast as RAM but it should help. 2010-09-09 03:31 I'm all for diversity, nothing against Debian. Personally I enjoy battling with OpenWrt, another effort you might want to check out is the OpenEmbedded based Jlime (www.jlime.com) 2010-09-09 03:31 or if not the nand possibly the SD car 2010-09-09 03:31 yes people put a swap on the sd card 2010-09-09 03:31 you will find out all about that soon :-) 2010-09-09 03:32 wolfspraul: I am not sure but is the nand faster or the sd? 2010-09-09 03:32 hmm 2010-09-09 03:32 wolfspraul: Also I am looking at the jlime as we speak. 2010-09-09 03:32 depends on the SD card I think some SD cards may be faster 2010-09-09 03:33 if you want to really learn kernels botom-up, check out the Iris kernel 2010-09-09 03:33 http://projects.qi-hardware.com/p/iris 2010-09-09 03:34 a little LED play http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Leds.ogv 2010-09-09 03:34 wolfspraul: Also checking out iris. I am sorry for all the questions but as I said I enjoy learning. If someone is handing out free knowledge then why not take it :D. 2010-09-09 03:35 oh there is plenty of that here, too much maybe :-) 2010-09-09 03:35 so you need to follow a path that makes sense for you 2010-09-09 03:36 wolfspraul: I guess thats my biggest problem. I try to learn and dabble in a little bit of everything. I am trying to learn about the hardware and software portion of things as they are both related. Ya know? 2010-09-09 03:38 woflspraul: Also are you part of the dev team? Community member? 2010-09-09 03:40 dev team, server admin, NanoNote salesman 2010-09-09 03:40 wolfspraul: Awesome. Software or hardware side of things as far as dev goes? 2010-09-09 03:41 software 2010-09-09 03:41 well 'dev' may be the wrong word. the server admin takes up an awful amount of time. 2010-09-09 03:42 I just setup a buildhost so hopefully we will get better and quicker with OpenWrt images. 2010-09-09 03:42 (building right now :-)) 2010-09-09 03:42 awesome 2010-09-09 03:42 I have an idea 2010-09-09 03:42 not a unique idea 2010-09-09 03:43 but something practical 2010-09-09 03:43 getting some sort of install manager done for the end user if that hasn't been done already 2010-09-09 03:43 possibly something graphical that takes the small resolution into mind 2010-09-09 03:46 good idea although I think we are just not there yet 2010-09-09 03:47 apt-get in Debian and opkg in OpenWrt/Jlime... 2010-09-09 03:49 those are both non graphical are they not? I have something in mind similar to (and I hate to say this) the Apple Store 2010-09-09 03:51 that's OK, but we can only go step by step by what is possible for us today 2010-09-09 03:52 I'm not aware of a GUI installer for qvga resolution 2010-09-09 03:52 wolfspraul: Of course. One should have a vision of the vision though shouldn't they? 2010-09-09 03:52 wow typing fail XD 2010-09-09 03:52 *vision of the future 2010-09-09 03:52 perhaps its time for me to go to bed 2010-09-09 03:56 woflspraul: One last question. How many days does it normally take to arrive? 2010-09-09 04:16 elricsfate: where did you order and where do you live? 2010-09-09 04:16 mostly it's 'a few days' 2010-09-09 04:33 elricsfate: i like the concept of "a vision of a vision" ;-) 2010-09-09 07:16 @Â Â Â Â WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!Â Â Â Â @ 2010-09-09 07:16 huh? 2010-09-09 07:17 fidelio.qi-hardware.com 2010-09-09 07:17 IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING NASTY! 2010-09-09 07:17 wolfspraul?? 2010-09-09 07:21 yes about raid1 when dont need mirror something wich no backup is planned ;) 2010-09-09 07:22 free it we will get twice space i guess :D 2010-09-09 07:29 wolfspraul: you changed something in fidelio? i got @Â Â Â Â WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!Â Â Â Â @ 2010-09-09 07:30 wolfspraul: yes raid1 just will low performance and also we dont need backup 2010-09-09 07:30 kristianpaul: yes, I did a complete new setup :-) 2010-09-09 07:30 and more space free i may guess 2010-09-09 07:30 wolfspraul: oh riht 2010-09-09 07:30 didn't bother to copy the server keys 2010-09-09 07:31 i noticed ;) 2010-09-09 07:31 it's raid0 now, and ext4 (journal disabled) instead of ext2, and some other performance tweaks 2010-09-09 07:31 good :) 2010-09-09 07:32 You really make worth to the "is sanbox server, explore !" 2010-09-09 07:32 sandbox* 2010-09-09 07:32 well I won't just nuke it again, only now because I realized raid0 is so much better than raid1 in this case 2010-09-09 07:33 :) 2010-09-09 07:33 sure 2010-09-09 07:33 I could have preserved the data on it, but since it was only one day old I just started over 2010-09-09 07:34 now it's good to go! 2010-09-09 07:34 :-) 2010-09-09 07:34 I am building already, and will start some more builds 2010-09-09 07:34 will try to make all packages too 2010-09-09 07:34 see how long that takes 2010-09-09 07:40 :) 2010-09-09 07:43 2010-09-09 07:43 oops 2010-09-09 07:43 got a go, byw 2010-09-09 08:25 [commit] Werner Almesberger: atusd/atusd.brd: bumped the version to 100908 http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/284b557 2010-09-09 08:25 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Updated atusd driver for new hardware. Make use of the interrupt line. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/18eec55 2010-09-09 08:25 [commit] Werner Almesberger: New atusd errata and a few small CAM updates. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/93f0f40 2010-09-09 08:28 wpwrak: I'm thinking about the practical aspects of the breakout sdio cable more. What's so bad about the ribbon cable? 2010-09-09 08:29 it looks like the ribbon cable is stronger/more versatile than an FPC cable 2010-09-09 08:29 is the signal integrity in a ribbon cable worse? 2010-09-09 08:29 wolfspraul: it's probably a bit more difficult to manufacture. FPC may also be more stable where soldered. 2010-09-09 08:30 it's probably more expensive, yes. but my feeling is the mechanical stability is much better. 2010-09-09 08:30 signal integrity should be similar (if you use the same spacing) 2010-09-09 08:31 maybe even better if the ribbon cables are individually shielded? 2010-09-09 08:31 for better mechanical stability, you'd also have to attach the isolated part of the cable somehow. glue or such. that may get tricky. 2010-09-09 08:32 hmm, let's see what shielded ribbon cable costs you ... 2010-09-09 08:32 you mean the isolation around the individual wires needs to be attached to the pcb? 2010-09-09 08:33 in terms of soldering, the wires from inside the ribbon cables would be soldered to the PCB as well, don't know why that should be less stable than an FPC? 2010-09-09 08:33 yes. otherwise you pull on the solder joints. since they'll have to be soldered manually, they're likely to experience an uneven load. also, ribbon cable doesn't take too frequent bending lightly. 2010-09-09 08:33 I need to see what standard techniques/processes exist to attach ribbon cables to a PCB 2010-09-09 08:34 the normal approach is to use a connector 2010-09-09 08:34 wait a sec loosing you 2010-09-09 08:34 "you pull on the solder joints" 2010-09-09 08:34 you can of course do this. just adds some overhead 2010-09-09 08:34 who pulls on what?/// 2010-09-09 08:34 uneven load? 2010-09-09 08:34 the ribbon cable itself is a lot more stable than the FPC 2010-09-09 08:34 we agree on that I think 2010-09-09 08:35 when there mechanical stress on the cable, then all that goes to the solder joints 2010-09-09 08:35 in terms of shielding, the ribbon cable will be as good or better than the fpc? 2010-09-09 08:35 yes but same for an FPC, no? 2010-09-09 08:35 of course we could go pro and have a flex-rigid PCB solution :-) 2010-09-09 08:36 in the case of fpc, the cable lies flat, so there's less of a lever. also, you probably have a larger contact surface and a more uniform load distribution 2010-09-09 08:36 why? I an expose the wires and solder it as strongly to the PCB as I can with an FPC 2010-09-09 08:36 ribbon cable and fpc will typically be unshielded :) 2010-09-09 08:36 hmm. many fpcs nowadays are shielded. 2010-09-09 08:36 some silver stuff I think 2010-09-09 08:37 but it's only on top, so I think there is nothing _between_ the wires (sideways) 2010-09-09 08:37 (in a shielded fpc) 2010-09-09 08:37 would you prefer a shielded ribbon cable? (where each wire is shielded) does that help? 2010-09-09 08:38 just look at how thin the wires are :) that 300 V+ isolation does have its cost in terms of wasted space. 2010-09-09 08:39 i'm not sure you can even get an individually shielded ribbon cable 2010-09-09 08:39 there are some with a shield around everything, though 2010-09-09 08:40 what you can get is twisted pair, or put ground wires between signals. the latter is what IDE (PATA) does. 2010-09-09 08:40 ok one by one 2010-09-09 08:40 first I try to understand the pros and cons of ribbon vs. fpc 2010-09-09 08:40 then - if it's fpc, whether fpc shielding (coating on top and bottom) is worth it 2010-09-09 08:41 and, if it's ribbon, whether ribbon shielding (either around the entire thing or individually or with GND wires) is worth it 2010-09-09 08:41 the thing is when I look at Ornotermes pictures, the ribbon cable looks perfect to me :-) 2010-09-09 08:41 fpc? too breakable! 2010-09-09 08:42 you probably don't need a lot of shielding. this is for fairly coarse experiments anyway. 2010-09-09 08:43 shielding is my second question, what about the first one - fpc vs ribbon 2010-09-09 08:43 fpc have their failure modes too, agreed. 2010-09-09 08:43 I don't understand the fpc advantages 2010-09-09 08:44 i think soldering a ribbon cable directly on a PCB is a non-standard process 2010-09-09 08:44 yes that I have to investigate :-) 2010-09-09 08:45 if you can find a way to get this done properly, including some pull relief, a ribbon cable is okay 2010-09-09 08:46 with an fpc, you can also run the fpc all the way into the microSD connector, and only underlay it with a piece of plastic in the last part (inside the connector), to reach the necessary thickness 2010-09-09 08:46 so basically no PCB inside the connector at all, just run the fpc in there 2010-09-09 08:47 yes, good idea 2010-09-09 08:47 actually I've made some of these last year and gave to some people 2010-09-09 08:47 just need to get some good glue ;-) 2010-09-09 08:47 and the idea was stolen from??? 2010-09-09 08:47 YOU! 2010-09-09 08:47 maybe you remember that you had the idea of a 'breakout fpc' at our fantastic previous employer 2010-09-09 08:48 yes, that i remember 2010-09-09 08:48 I will take a picture of the one I have here tomorrow (daylight) 2010-09-09 08:48 didn't I include one in the last package to you? 2010-09-09 08:48 ah, there was one odd little cable ... 2010-09-09 08:49 full-size SD or such, if i remember right (?) 2010-09-09 08:49 micro to full, yes 2010-09-09 08:49 having a look ... 2010-09-09 08:49 I have several types, some are PCB based, some are FPC based 2010-09-09 08:49 David is using the PCB based one in this video: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Leds.ogv 2010-09-09 08:50 if you have the FPC-based one, then you can see how it's done inside the connector 2010-09-09 08:50 the biggest chance i failure i suspect so far is bending the cable near she solder points where the tin stops supporting the strands in the wire, but that is solved by hot glue 2010-09-09 08:51 maybe I'm too worried and actually FPC is the best 2010-09-09 08:51 i have the fpc version. uSD to SD. yes, looks pretty tidy. 2010-09-09 08:51 maybe even with some shielding 2010-09-09 08:52 wpwrak: yes I think it's neat. only needs to end in those metal heads, 2.54mm apart 2010-09-09 08:53 some beads may do more for signal integrity than shielding. but with adam, you already have an expert on such things :) 2010-09-09 08:53 hehe, a cable for metal heads. tuxbrain will like that :) 2010-09-09 08:53 what's the right term? 2010-09-09 08:53 pins? 2010-09-09 08:54 they're called headers 2010-09-09 08:55 yeah, so basically the cable you already have, just longer and ending in 8 headers 2.54mm apart 2010-09-09 08:57 I still like the flexibility of the ribbon cable, oh well... :-) 2010-09-09 08:58 yup. btw, the whole thing with N pins is called "header" (singular). they also exist in an SMT variant 2010-09-09 08:59 http://www.sullinscorp.com/catalogs/77_Page78-79_HEADER_.100_2.54mm_MALE_BREAKAWAY.pdf 2010-09-09 09:00 if I make the FPC 20 cm long, it won't fit in regular letters, so it has to be bent around. not good. 2010-09-09 09:00 if I try to keep the total size under 10cm, it looses functionality 2010-09-09 09:01 use longer enveloppes ;) i think a total length of ~20 cm should be okay, no ? 2010-09-09 09:02 so maybe you get 15 cm for the fpc, 5 for uSD and connectors 2010-09-09 09:02 I would definitely want the header to be flat, pointing in the same direction as the cable is running. again for shippability, just put into a letter... 2010-09-09 09:03 are 4 mm flat enough ? 2010-09-09 09:05 don't know, but are you trying to have the header point up (90o angle), or point outward (flat) 2010-09-09 09:05 ah, would you solder the header directly on the FPC or go via a small PCB ? 2010-09-09 09:05 directly onto the fpc if possible 2010-09-09 09:05 just look at that fpc cable/adapter you already have 2010-09-09 09:05 i was thinking to make the coplanar with the FPC. although this introduces some bending 2010-09-09 09:05 kristianpaul: config.full_system build took 7.5h now, down from 9.x yesterday 2010-09-09 09:06 coplanar = flat? 2010-09-09 09:06 what bending? 2010-09-09 09:06 oh you mean if the breadboard sits next to the ben, for example, the fpc has to run in a curve 2010-09-09 09:07 but I think there are many setups we cannot predict the exact angles outside the device anyway 2010-09-09 09:09 (curve) yes, that's what i was thinking about. connecting from the top is the most typical use for these things. 2010-09-09 09:09 oh, you could of course leave the contacts open. no header. that way, people can solder whatever they like to have there 2010-09-09 09:09 also solves the shipping problem ;-))) 2010-09-09 09:10 yes but it's harder, and desoldering is always easy anyway 2010-09-09 09:10 so I'd rather get some work done... 2010-09-09 09:10 (whatever they like) e.g., they may want to have a female connector there so that they can use the (cheaper) male header on their board 2010-09-09 09:11 or they may want to have a polarized connector, again same spacing and everything. there's a number of systems that are all compatible with the plain 100 mil header. 2010-09-09 09:11 sure but that is true anyway, and you can always desolder the connector that's already there 2010-09-09 09:11 if it's not glued, too. 2010-09-09 09:11 you probably need glue, for stability 2010-09-09 09:11 I think a simple male 2.54mm header to get started is fine 2010-09-09 09:12 don't know. I can put a plastic underneath the end of the fpc, just like on the other (microsd) side 2010-09-09 09:13 yeah. the plastic is pretty strong. 2010-09-09 09:13 sound good then. you just have to pick the sort of header you like. an smt variant will be a bit thicker but more standard to solder. 2010-09-09 09:14 if you just solder a throuh-hole variant on the edge, it will be thinner but i don't know how they'll like it from the manufacturing side. well, since it's small numbers, manual soldering should be okay. 2010-09-09 09:15 regular letter maximum width: German 23.5 cm, Hong Kong 26 cm, USA 29.2 cm 2010-09-09 09:16 yeah so if the total is 20 cm or even 22 cm, no need to fold it 2010-09-09 09:16 perfect :) 2010-09-09 09:17 do you think shielding the FPC is a good idea? 2010-09-09 09:19 i don't think you need a shield that parallels the traces. not sure about EMI and cross-talk, though. the latter may benefit from a signal-GND pairing. uSD already does a little of this by sandwiching the bus clock between VDD and GND. but CMD and the data lines run openly. 2010-09-09 09:20 so silver coating the fpc on top and bottom is not worth it? 2010-09-09 09:20 it would seem excessive to me 2010-09-09 09:23 should we make a much shorter variant too? or one that basically just exposes the 8 wires where they come out of the connector? 2010-09-09 09:25 the latter could be useful too. 20 cm may be a bit long but the minimum useful size is probably a bit above 10 cm, so i'm not sure there's much room for a smaller variant. 2010-09-09 09:26 what do you mean with 'much room'? you mean no applications? 2010-09-09 09:26 what if someone wants to solder something more high speed, and the wires just need to be short? 2010-09-09 09:27 of course you may be able to cut open the fpc and get to the wires that way 2010-09-09 09:27 a "just expose the 8 wires" variant could help here. 2010-09-09 09:28 anyone who's planning something a bit more sophisticated can just make their own pcb anyway 2010-09-09 09:28 I think there are lots of small EVBs nowadays 2010-09-09 09:29 some in full-size SD form, that's one reason why I made this adapter you have 2010-09-09 09:30 but some just a small PCB, say 2x2cm, and you need to find out for the first prototyping how to hook that up (with several options offered by the evb) 2010-09-09 09:30 I think in many cases, making another PCB is quite a bit of work, so if we can make some and 'bridge' a few cases here and there later that's cool I think 2010-09-09 09:31 a "just bring out the wires" adapter may help with such things. it eliminates the finicky mechanical work and you'll need some evb-specific cable anyway. 2010-09-09 09:33 he 2010-09-09 09:33 trying to find the 'one size fits all' solution :-) 2010-09-09 09:34 ah, maybe adding an inductor and/or a polyfuse may also be a nice touch :) 2010-09-09 09:36 where and how? 2010-09-09 09:37 solder them on the fpc, inrush current and short circuit protection 2010-09-09 09:40 maybe before the male header? 2010-09-09 09:40 we also need to specify how much power is actually available 2010-09-09 09:41 where would they sit? (on which wires) 2010-09-09 09:41 yup 2010-09-09 09:41 just on VDD 2010-09-09 09:42 there's of course also the issue of ESD protection. there's none in the Ben, except whatever the CPU may be able to take. 2010-09-09 09:43 echo 665 > build_dir/linux-xburst_qi_lb60/linux-2.6.32.16/.version // :D 2010-09-09 09:59 wpwrak: what type of inductor and fuse do you have in mind? 2010-09-09 10:00 inductor maybe around 1 uH. fuse, a polyfuse. 2010-09-09 10:00 like this http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=F2901CT-ND 2010-09-09 10:00 unfortunately, they're not cheap 2010-09-09 10:00 current rating would depend on how much we're actually allowed to draw 2010-09-09 10:07 ok I'll go from there, thanks! 2010-09-09 10:09 good luck ! :) 2010-09-09 11:15 urandom__: ah you're finally here again 2010-09-09 11:15 (while I am) 2010-09-09 11:15 so, did you ever get around to creating a more advanced port of the snake game? 2010-09-09 11:44 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Improved clock stability by using a capacitative divider and found more minor http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6e726d1 2010-09-09 12:55 wpwrak: what the 'a' mean when you said 10 MSa/s ? 2010-09-09 12:56 i undertand is likle said 10 millions of samples per second.. 2010-09-09 12:56 Sa = Sample 2010-09-09 12:56 aa 2010-09-09 12:56 np 2010-09-09 12:56 to avoid confusion with S = Siemens :-) 2010-09-09 12:56 but even TI uses MSPS 2010-09-09 12:57 okay 2010-09-09 12:57 SDL hackers around? 2010-09-09 12:57 yeah, Siemens isn't the most commonly used unit. i think i've seen it once or twice outside textbooks ;-) 2010-09-09 12:57 sure and in germany i guess ;) 2010-09-09 13:00 it's an official SI unit :) but it gets better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_(unit)#Mho 2010-09-09 13:01 and there are whose people who already find it difficult to place regular greek letters into text or schematics. little do they know ;-) 2010-09-09 13:01 wpwrak: btw how is your wpan going? 2010-09-09 13:01 s/whose/those/ 2010-09-09 13:01 there is a list called linux en caja, i pointed a guy to yout project 2010-09-09 13:02 pretty good. i made a new set up boards that don't have the multiplexing bug. one has trouble with clock stability, so i changed the resistive voltage divider (the clock input can only be driven with a signal of 400-500 mV peak-to-peak) 2010-09-09 13:02 what,Â Â inverted Omega? grazy people 2010-09-09 13:03 kristianpaul: as in libsdl? I've done some programming with it 2010-09-09 13:03 urandom__: you here yet? 2010-09-09 13:03 mth: hello 2010-09-09 13:03 mth: do you have a hello world example of basic plotting with sdl, lile sin or cos functions? 2010-09-09 13:04 to a capacitative divider in the second board. that seems to work well. clock is stable and i can send and receive. not quite sure what the capacitative divider does to EMC, though. I guess i should find some radio that listens in the low harmonics of 16 MHz :-) 2010-09-09 13:04 great wpwrak :) 2010-09-09 13:04 not really, but I guess there are tutorial around 2010-09-09 13:04 I did write this yesterday: http://dingoowiki.com/index.php/Dingux:OpenDingux#Development 2010-09-09 13:05 see the fragment at the end for a quick overview of how to push pixels 2010-09-09 13:06 kristianpaul: (uinverted omega) and then there's the beautiful programming language called APL. not satisfied with the regular characters set, extended with greek and some other weird symbols, they invented the overprinting of characters. one can't say that APL programs aren't *dense*, though. Perl looks rather chatty and trivial in comparison. 2010-09-09 13:06 mth: what programinhg you did before? 2010-09-09 13:06 for NN it would have to be 32bpp instead of 16bpp 2010-09-09 13:06 mainly on openMSX (MSX emulator) 2010-09-09 13:07 (wpan) now i need to see how far these critters can go. i hope they're doing better than their USB predecessors. (not because of USB vs. uSD but because i also improved a number of things in the RF design) 2010-09-09 13:07 wpwrak: i think will look nice a wap with uSD and a little case for it :) 2010-09-09 13:07 wap/wpan 2010-09-09 13:08 the case would be the next challenge indeed :) 2010-09-09 13:08 well, it's not so small. the antenna is big. 2010-09-09 13:08 lemma take a picture ... 2010-09-09 13:08 :D 2010-09-09 13:17 http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/atusd/atusd-20100908-inserted.jpg 2010-09-09 13:18 lovelly ! 2010-09-09 13:19 i wish i could make it a bit narrower 2010-09-09 13:20 sell me one ! 2010-09-09 13:20 :) 2010-09-09 13:21 heh, i'll let wolfgang and tuxbrain figure out how to produce those beasts ;-) 2010-09-09 13:21 sure 2010-09-09 13:21 and the case 2010-09-09 13:21 well is small 2010-09-09 13:21 i can print it at home :) 2010-09-09 13:22 hmm i have ABS in colors 2010-09-09 13:22 ah yes, you can make a case :) 2010-09-09 13:22 will be cute yellow 2010-09-09 13:22 or strong red 2010-09-09 13:22 hehe 2010-09-09 13:24 great work wpwrak :) 2010-09-09 13:25 you can always paint it black to follow the style of the rest of the ben :) 2010-09-09 13:25 hehe yesi just dont have black ABS... 2010-09-09 13:25 may be blueABS 2010-09-09 13:25 thanks :) but it's not done yet. still need to see if i get any kind of range. right now, my test consist of transmission between antennas about 20 cm apart :) 2010-09-09 13:26 ouch 2010-09-09 13:26 well... 2010-09-09 13:27 wpwrak: i guy asked me if posible to send encrypted data with the current bandwich 2010-09-09 13:27 what do you think? 2010-09-09 13:27 (talking about wpan) 2010-09-09 13:28 of course you can encrypt. doesn't have much to do with bandwidth. the cpu should be more than fast enough 2010-09-09 13:28 great :) 2010-09-09 13:28 i now just wait you finish to start selling devices with build-in ecrypted comunication :D 2010-09-09 13:29 the transceiver doesn't have hardware-accelerated encryption. so the cpu has to do the work. this saves us from us export restrictions for the chip :) 2010-09-09 13:29 btw is this first aprouch to wifi freedom but i guess next move is something more SDR that SCR ? 2010-09-09 13:30 SCR (software controlled radio) 2010-09-09 13:30 SDR will be a bit of a challenge :) 2010-09-09 13:30 tell me to me 2010-09-09 13:31 GPS-SDR is really challging all this correlations are heavy for 336Mhz ben... 2010-09-09 13:32 well you have USRP, soway to go :) 2010-09-09 13:32 just an ADC DCA and the nanonote :p 2010-09-09 13:34 heh, connect the ben to the usrp ;-) 2010-09-09 13:35 you tried? 2010-09-09 13:35 no kidding 2010-09-09 13:35 it will fry with that bandwich 2010-09-09 13:35 naw. i already know that the usrp2 needs a little more to be happy than what the ben can deliver :) 2010-09-09 13:36 wpwrak: whats the current cost for awpan board? 2010-09-09 13:36 10usd? 2010-09-09 13:36 more? 2010-09-09 13:36 s/awpan/wpan 2010-09-09 13:43 you mean the BOM cost ? depends a lot on the quantity at which you buy components. 2010-09-09 13:45 right now, you need an Atmel AT86RF230, a Wuerth 748421245 balun, 2 good 22 pF capacitors, 4 x 1 uF cap, 1 x 220 pF, 1 x 33 pF, and 2 0R resistors. all the small stuff is 0402. 2010-09-09 13:45 one of the 0R should probably become an inductor 2010-09-09 14:11 bartbes i am here 2010-09-09 14:12 so, have you tried the new build of nlove (0.2, from.. 2 days ago, I think) 2010-09-09 14:13 i have not, i think 2010-09-09 14:13 oh noes 2010-09-09 14:13