2010-09-02 00:00 e.g., i went through three of them for the blinkenlights. the one on the video and pictures is a first version board, but the final one has better mechanical properties. didn't actually complete the board, though. but i'll use the data for ben-wpan 2010-09-02 00:01 kristianpaul: tx power seems to make zero difference :) i set it to 251 mW and dumped some files at the PC next to my TV over wifi. so either that pc sends with more power than the access point or the tx power setting doesn't matter much 2010-09-02 00:03 wolfspraul: btw, the cnc mill is an important bit of the rapid r&d setup. not only can i do messy shapes with it, but it also does that in a fairly reproducible way. 2010-09-02 00:05 i still need to connect board outline in kicad with heekscad, though. right now, i manually write a script that generates a toolpath with my own set of utilities. (the stuff in cam/, mainly pcb.pl) 2010-09-02 00:08 wpwrak: you mean for the shape of the PCB? 2010-09-02 00:08 kristianpaul: well ... poking around a bit more, i see a bit of a difference. peaks are the same, but the average changes when i increase tx power. so maybe the pc's acks are just very strong. 2010-09-02 00:09 wolfspraul: yes. e.g., idbg and blinkenlights both have very precise shape specifications. ben-wpan is a bit more relaxed for now, but that won't last for long 2010-09-02 00:44 hmm, bit-banging on and off, with a ben, only 7 MHz. a bit disappointing. 2010-09-02 00:45 ack 2010-09-02 00:46 while (1) { PDDATS = 1 << 9; PDDATC = 1 << 9; }Â Â compiled with -O9 2010-09-02 00:46 can beat that with a sbi cbi loop on avr 2010-09-02 00:46 at 20mhz 2010-09-02 00:47 well.. its not intended as a bitpattern-sw-generator. 2010-09-02 00:47 still ... 2010-09-02 00:49 the loop gets unrolled a little. twice. besides that, it's just the store instructions and the jump 2010-09-02 00:51 but the jump is probably absorbed by write buffers anyway. at least i don't see a timing difference on the scope. 2010-09-02 00:52 but now to the fun part ... outputting the sd/mmc clock 2010-09-02 01:08 unroll it more.. like 10 times. who knows what the cache latency is 2010-09-02 01:08 just to see if it makes a difference 2010-09-02 01:10 naw, that doesn't make sense. i should be hammering it already with something like 30 MHz or more 2010-09-02 01:38 and there we are. a nice 16 MHz for my transceiver. bye bye crystal :) 2010-09-02 01:51 with the mmc clk? 2010-09-02 01:55 yup 2010-09-02 01:55 wpwrak: reading the backlog. what do you mean with 'sd card friction lock' (so the card can be 'flush with the edge')? 2010-09-02 01:56 when you insert the uSD card, you have to push it in a little to it "clicks" into place 2010-09-02 01:56 it then also comes back out a bit 2010-09-02 01:57 for an internal card, that's probably undesirable. so instead of this push-to-insert and push-to-release mechanism, it may be better to have a mechanism that holds the card just by friction 2010-09-02 01:57 why is it undesirable? 2010-09-02 01:57 not sure if such card holders exist, though. a quick search didn't find any 2010-09-02 01:57 what do you mean with 'internal card'? 2010-09-02 01:58 wpwrak: well, they are in some mobile phones, so I'd guess they exist 2010-09-02 01:58 (internal card) well, if uSD works great for extension boards, why not have one on the inside as well ? 2010-09-02 01:58 whether they're for sale is something entirely different of course 2010-09-02 01:59 yes sure 2010-09-02 01:59 bartbes: naw, with this sort of thing there are no crazy limitations 2010-09-02 01:59 but I don't understand what the problem is with the little 'push in' to release the card 2010-09-02 02:00 you want a solution mechanically that essentially has no 'lock' at all. you just push it in to a certain point, and from that point you can pull it straight back out the same way it came. 2010-09-02 02:00 (undesirable) wastes space, may be less stable (your lever grows), etc. 2010-09-02 02:00 right? 2010-09-02 02:00 wpwrak 'great for extension boards' .. well.. you have a funny view on things sometimes...Â Â i find the mechanics rather tricky to do myself. and i got a cnc mill 2010-09-02 02:00 yes 2010-09-02 02:00 ;) 2010-09-02 02:00 at least i think that may be better 2010-09-02 02:00 why does that waste less space? 2010-09-02 02:00 because you don't have to reserve a little room before you can have thicker components? 2010-09-02 02:01 (that space would be necessary for the push-in-distance) 2010-09-02 02:01 if the card has a width W, then you need W+travel space for having it installed with that mechanism 2010-09-02 02:01 yes, on the card as well. you can view if from either side 2010-09-02 02:01 that push-in is at most 1mm or so 2010-09-02 02:02 sure, it's not a lot. but if you card is maybe 10 mm ... 2010-09-02 02:02 I think the idea is that it allows you to insert microSD cards that are fully submerged into the connector. 2010-09-02 02:02 roh: have you made an uSD-card board too ? :) 2010-09-02 02:02 and then the only way to get them out it to push them further in, before they are 'kicked out' 2010-09-02 02:03 if you remove that mechanism, and you insert a regular microSD flash card, you may not get it out at all anymore :-) 2010-09-02 02:03 yup. ah yes, and without the push-lock mechanism, you also don't need to be as precise 2010-09-02 02:03 because you have no way to grab the top and bottom side of the card 2010-09-02 02:03 a holder without that mechanism probably has an opening that lets you grab that raised border of the card :) 2010-09-02 02:03 wpwrak not yet. but i know the mechanics and its _small_ 2010-09-02 02:04 hmm 2010-09-02 02:04 look at an uSD card. their thickness is not entirely uniform. 2010-09-02 02:04 I still don't totally get it. 2010-09-02 02:04 wpwrak i think they are intended to lock on that small nose on the side 2010-09-02 02:04 roh: that's what we have CNC mills for :) 2010-09-02 02:04 roh: yup 2010-09-02 02:04 I also know microsd connectors that open up on the top side, like in the freerunner for example 2010-09-02 02:05 the standard says 1.0mm I think 2010-09-02 02:05 the 'nonuniform' thickness is 'the traces of the pcb it consists of' and its thicker on the end, so you can grab it somewhere 2010-09-02 02:05 but I'm sure there are tolerances, maybe by now multiple standards, etc. 2010-09-02 02:05 wolfspraul: (open on top) they may be less extension-friendly. but it would have to be examined. 2010-09-02 02:05 roh: i meant the latter 2010-09-02 02:05 yes I think so, much less extension friendly 2010-09-02 02:06 for the 'push only' cheapo holders which dont 'push-lock' but 'push to the end and make it flush with some border' holders 2010-09-02 02:06 that's why I was surprised you had some arguments against the push-in locking mechanism 2010-09-02 02:06 roh: that's exactly what i'm looking for 2010-09-02 02:06 it think both mechanics exist. i like the 'more complicated' one more. gives a better 'warm and fuzzy feeling' 2010-09-02 02:06 I'm not sure what else you want, unless just no mechanism at all, and then I don't know how you can get a fully inserted card out. 2010-09-02 02:07 wpwrak i guess its a 'asian sourcing madness' for beginners job 2010-09-02 02:07 ;-)) 2010-09-02 02:07 adam to the rescue :) 2010-09-02 02:07 dont you have some intern for that? ;) 2010-09-02 02:07 roh: so you know some connectors that don't have this 'push in a little deeper to kick out' mechanism? 2010-09-02 02:07 wolfspraul ive seen it done. 2010-09-02 02:07 in that case, how do you get a regular, fully inserted, microSD card out? 2010-09-02 02:08 the SDCARD to ÂµSD thingies are that way 2010-09-02 02:08 wolfspraul fingernail 2010-09-02 02:08 wolfspraul: basically all three types exist - top load, front load that clicks, and front load that just stays with friction. they all are designed to actually work :) 2010-09-02 02:08 its only inÂ Â 'on the edge' use 2010-09-02 02:08 roh: ah OK. true! those little plastic adapters from micro to full-size. 2010-09-02 02:08 good example 2010-09-02 02:08 i guess those are just contacts on the board and the frame comes from the case parts 2010-09-02 02:08 then they have an opening on the top 2010-09-02 02:09 but of course you first pull out the entire full-size SD card in that example, so you get top access 2010-09-02 02:09 otherwise you couldn't get the microSD out anymore 2010-09-02 02:09 i still dont like that socket as internal extension conn. 2010-09-02 02:09 (not easily at least) 2010-09-02 02:09 not really frickel-proof. 2010-09-02 02:09 cant you just make some nice layouted pads on the board? 2010-09-02 02:10 bigger for clumsy soldering. nice soldermask for avoiding tin bridges 2010-09-02 02:11 some points with ground in distance, to mount a 'extension card' with some solder like the rfm12 are also intended for 'lay on board, put some tin around, done' 2010-09-02 02:11 roh: let me tell you something about the 'nice pads' that are seemingly always missing. the problem seems to be that you always just realize after the fact which 'nice pads' should have been put in which place on the board. 2010-09-02 02:11 not meaning that one should use the rfm12 layout neccessarily. but the generic mechanics like a 'stamp' 2010-09-02 02:11 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Be more careful with "volatile". It still worked, but was not a good example. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-blinkenlights/979a631 2010-09-02 02:12 it seems to be very hard to predict in advance which pads will later turn out to be desperately missed, and where 2010-09-02 02:12 wolfspraul since it comes up so much, it seems to be something important 2010-09-02 02:12 *scnr* ;) 2010-09-02 02:12 sure sure, it's just my general feeling on this. 2010-09-02 02:12 it's the thing you always think about too late 2010-09-02 02:12 i think you can't solve the pad choice problem 2010-09-02 02:12 for example we are working on Xue now, the camera 2010-09-02 02:13 who is really thinking _THAT FAR_ ahead right now? 2010-09-02 02:13 nobody 2010-09-02 02:13 the neo had it right. spi, i2c, a irq, and you can do gpio on nearly all of them if needed. 2010-09-02 02:13 but converging on uSD as extension connector is something i like 2010-09-02 02:13 but I guarantee you, in 1 year, 2 years. we will all be scratching our heads "why didn't we add this or that pad here or there" 2010-09-02 02:13 what was missing is power. and a spec how much you can draw 2010-09-02 02:13 yeah, why??? :-) 2010-09-02 02:13 make it a bit more flexible by merging an spi in, too. maybe i2c. so you can reconfigure for different boards. 2010-09-02 02:13 because it's very very hard to think that far into the future, although in hindsight that's still hard to accept 2010-09-02 02:14 wpwrak does microsd allow for i2c or an interrupt or is it just a glorified spi which cant speak spi anymore due to bad chipset design? 2010-09-02 02:14 roh: uSD connector doesn't mean that you have to speak uSD on it 2010-09-02 02:14 doesnt neccessary be a real i2c 'spec' .. can be something custom... dunno if there are free pins or so 2010-09-02 02:15 wpwrak: you and Ornotermes talked about bringing SPI and I2C to those pads as well. Does that work electrically? sounds like a totally good idea to me, if doable. 2010-09-02 02:15 roh: just connect pins of the different engines together. e.g., MMC_CLK = SPI_SCLK = I2C_SCL 2010-09-02 02:15 wpwrak can you tristate unused ones? 2010-09-02 02:15 wolfspraul: here's your answer :) 2010-09-02 02:15 roh: sure 2010-09-02 02:16 the jz4720 is about as flexible as the 2442. no surprises there. 2010-09-02 02:16 wpwrak hm.. then its just a 'why that conn, and not some 0815-amp or molex conn? 2010-09-02 02:16 in fact, it has a few nice extras. e.g., port in separated from port latch. 2010-09-02 02:17 so if you do screw up your LED transistor, you don't need that certain kernel hack ... ;-) 2010-09-02 02:17 roh: because you already have that connector 2010-09-02 02:17 i have? nope.. for nothing but flash 2010-09-02 02:18 roh: add an internal one as well and you can a) choose where your board goes, and b) if you need an uSD, put it in the other 2010-09-02 02:18 and its mechanically not really nice. hard to 'make' 2010-09-02 02:18 true.. its nice if one can just push another flash in there 2010-09-02 02:19 roh: i think we can figure that out :) and you can always make precision-milled adapter boards. most people will want to connect something clunky anyway, so you'll want a cable. 2010-09-02 02:19 hm. true. 2010-09-02 02:19 not sure how FR4 compares to the uSD card's plastic for wear 2010-09-02 02:20 is there free pcb space? 2010-09-02 02:20 in principle, it should be tougher 2010-09-02 02:20 for the internal connector ? 2010-09-02 02:20 so one could 'make a real connector solderable' ? 2010-09-02 02:20 something more mechanically stable than microsd? doesnt need to be populated 2010-09-02 02:21 i would make something a bit like the blinkenlights board. a bit longer. then solder some fpc on it. you can then solder the fpc to your board. 2010-09-02 02:21 all very very simple. so you can produce a few k and just sell them by the bag. 2010-09-02 02:21 doesnt even need to be useable with the regular case without cutting. i'd also add the bat-pins on there. so one could make a nanonote like the 'control terminal' with a plug connector into something 'more clunky' 2010-09-02 02:21 like a rc-car or so. 2010-09-02 02:22 for battery, you could make a fake battery. block of wood with contacts. 2010-09-02 02:22 attach it to your rc killer robot woth nails ;-) 2010-09-02 02:22 (the block, not the ben :) 2010-09-02 02:23 and make it have the contacts for uart 2010-09-02 02:23 soon we'll need a cpld for the multiplexing ;-) 2010-09-02 02:24 wpwrak something like that, but think of 'the sdio, the serial, 3pins of battery... all on one connector which one can solder in the battery holder place 2010-09-02 02:25 e.g., for ben-wpan, i'd want MMC_CLK, SCLK, MOSI and MISO together, nSS, and 2 GPIOs 2010-09-02 02:25 roh: like this: http://www.vibrant.com/images/cables/colorful-mess-zenji.jpg 2010-09-02 02:25 then your mechanics only need to be very simple, and the connector could even be something like 2x7 pins in 2mm spacing 2010-09-02 02:25 yikes 2010-09-02 02:26 bartbes: precisely ;-)) 2010-09-02 02:26 better not to overengineer this. you could also have a path field nearby where you can rearrange the assignments by moving/placing 0Rs. 2010-09-02 02:26 i just got a device which got a 2x5pin 2mm header below. there is vbat, gnd, serial on cmos levels and usb on there. quite practical for debugging. 2010-09-02 02:27 not extremely nice, but better than nothing if you need something not anticipated 2010-09-02 02:27 plus, you could also run patch wires to the patch field and bring out completely new TPs 2010-09-02 02:27 aslong as its a exposed pad or resistor-end on the same side of the pcb, everything is already silver. the rest is gold and platin coverage for 'hack here' stickers 2010-09-02 02:29 expensive stickers if they need a gold and platin substrate ;-) 2010-09-02 02:30 hrhr.. i sometimes think my tax-guy should use those for the money he costs me 2010-09-02 02:31 grmbl. mail still down :-( 2010-09-02 02:31 anyhow.. just ideas. i'd love not to need hot-gluing those connectors into dremel-ed cases anymore 2010-09-02 02:31 hehe :) 2010-09-02 02:31 jap. will talk with gismo once he is up to check with hetzner about chandra 2010-09-02 02:32 kewl. thanks ! 2010-09-02 02:33 maybe they moved power and air conditioning first, with the machines to follow in a couple of weeks :) 2010-09-02 02:33 roh: yes the qi server is also moving to a new datacenter, will be offline for 9 hours they say. 2010-09-02 02:33 i hope its some 'move' and not a dead disk or so 2010-09-02 02:34 but they announce it very well 1 month in advance 2010-09-02 02:34 dead disk would be ugly 2010-09-02 02:34 after the move we will have ipv6 and then I can jump into enabling that... 2010-09-02 02:34 whee ! 2010-09-02 02:34 just in time for ben-wpan :) 2010-09-02 02:35 yeah 2010-09-02 02:35 hi everyone 2010-09-02 02:35 can you extend the range to ca. 20,000 km so we can reach the server from any ben-wpan in the whole world? 2010-09-02 02:35 no problem. lemme do the math ... 2010-09-02 02:36 xiangfu: yesterday i flashed the 'clean' image i built, mkfs* still doesn't work -\ 2010-09-02 02:36 kyak: same here. 2010-09-02 02:36 do you have any ideas? 2010-09-02 02:37 or any feedback from openwrt? 2010-09-02 02:37 wolfspraul: about 5-10 MW output power should be enough :) 2010-09-02 02:38 (with an omnidirectional antenna) 2010-09-02 02:38 :-) 2010-09-02 02:39 wpwrak: will it also make me a "vegetable" for the rest of my life? 2010-09-02 02:39 i mean, being near this power source 2010-09-02 02:39 if you like your vegetables really well cooked .. :) 2010-09-02 02:40 5-10 MW will make sure you will not have kids. or something left of the house the device tx-ed in 2010-09-02 02:40 :) 2010-09-02 02:41 or need a pension plan for the radio operators :) 2010-09-02 02:42 wpwrak you won't even have to think about regulations. no need to worry! 2010-09-02 02:42 hmm, i better get a nap. if everything goes well, then i'll have to be on standby for fedex in a few hours. 2010-09-02 02:42 kyak: I will send email to openwrt mailing list later. see if anyone have the same problem. 2010-09-02 02:42 (search mailing list first, then send emailÂ Â :) 2010-09-02 02:42 xiangfu: ok, thanks! 2010-09-02 02:43 roh: yeah. if they want to complain about anything, they should just come to the station ;-) 2010-09-02 02:44 btw, for connecting of bulky stuff: http://www.slashhome.se/p/uSD_breakout/ 2010-09-02 02:45 he didn't use an fpc, but that the general concept looks right. also the photography is quite good :) 2010-09-02 02:46 (note the cherenkov radiation around the acid) 2010-09-02 02:55 absolutely beautiful pictures he took 2010-09-02 04:47 Ornotermes: congratulations for the nice pictures you have on your page! http://www.slashhome.se/p/uSD_breakout/ 2010-09-02 04:47 Thanks :) 2010-09-02 04:47 what license do you put these pictures under? do you mind if they are uploaded to the qi wiki (similar policy like wikipedia regarding pictures, i.e. cc-by ...) 2010-09-02 04:48 I couldn't find a license note on your page 2010-09-02 04:48 i have actually not read enough about cc licenses to decide yet 2010-09-02 04:49 ok sure no problem, take your time 2010-09-02 04:50 a good compromise between various extremes would be a simple CC-BY license 2010-09-02 04:51 for inclusion in places like Wikipedia (or the Qi wiki) you should not use the non-commercial or no-derivatives restrictions, if you want your stuff to be included that is 2010-09-02 04:57 the diffrence between cc by and cc by-sa is that cc by-sa requires derivated work to be released under the same license? 2010-09-02 05:10 Ornotermes: yes 2010-09-02 05:10 the -by-sa is a copyleft license 2010-09-02 05:10 ok 2010-09-02 05:11 although I am not aware of any serious enforcement activities on the side of creative commons. and without that it might as well be wishful thinking. 2010-09-02 05:12 for my own stuff, maybe I'll just use cc-by in the future, not cc-by-sa. I need to find out whether the -sa has any real meaning, and if it doesn't I'll remove it :-) 2010-09-02 05:13 well, for most my nanonote related stuff i think cc by will do 2010-09-02 05:14 but i will add it as an per image license 2010-09-02 05:15 great! with cc-by I think you make an excellent choice. 2010-09-02 05:18 but it's a hard pick to do 2010-09-02 05:18 license for avt2 is cc by-sa 2010-09-02 05:45 Ornotermes: why hard? what do you prefer? 2010-09-02 05:47 cc by gives mighty freedom for the next person, cc by-sa is a bit more restricted but the freedom reaches longer 2010-09-02 05:49 but i guess the sa add on con be rather weak any way 2010-09-02 05:57 i think i license the text as cc-by and images as cc-by-sa(for now), how does that sound? 2010-09-02 05:58 he :-) I never thought about it in that detail actually... 2010-09-02 05:59 yes it sounds good! 2010-09-02 06:00 well, the text can any one reproduce, nothing special... but i don't want people to just slightly edit them to change the license 2010-09-02 06:05 s/them/the images 2010-09-02 06:08 Ornotermes: and you have a real pc keyboard.. like men should have ;) 2010-09-02 06:08 real men 2010-09-02 06:09 rafa: i need some thing to defend my self with, you know ;P 2010-09-02 06:09 haha.. yes.. i know.. i have a similar one 2010-09-02 06:10 and it will survive for ages 2010-09-02 06:11 two things survive nuclear wars, cockroaches and Model M keyboards. ;) 2010-09-02 08:00 wolfspraul: that nobody is enforcing cc-by-sa today doesn't mean that nobody will tomorrow :) (see gpl-violations) 2010-09-02 08:00 hi wpwrak 2010-09-02 08:01 wolfspraul: and then it's very useful to have old stuff that has found its way into many designs. not to screw the guys who comply 99% but get 1% wrong, but to prove in court 1% of those who happily violate the full 100%. 2010-09-02 08:02 wpwrak: http://gallery.slashhome.se/main.php?g2_itemId=2910 2010-09-02 08:03 wolfspraul: some of gpl-violations.org stories are just scary. e.g., that set-top box kinda thing in austria. they treated it like something proprietary. once forced to comply with the gpl, they - among other things - produced a document listing just what they had included. it read like a "who is who" is free software. 2010-09-02 08:04 Ornotermes: heya ! that looks much nicer now ! :) 2010-09-02 08:05 yes, but i probably don't have time to test it today 2010-09-02 08:06 but my old card fits i both my htc hero and htc tytn :) 2010-09-02 08:07 wolfspraul: of course, the things on which legal action was taken/threatened was just the tiniest portion of the whole catalog. something that's absolutely bullet-proof so that they have no choice but to admit that they did something wrong. (well, some persist until they get a kick from the judge.) 2010-09-02 08:08 I doubt cc will ever put any serious enforcement action behind -sa, but let's see. I'm all for -sa. 2010-09-02 08:08 Ornotermes: hehe, i smell the beginning of a multi-billion dollars industry. breakout boards for - :) 2010-09-02 08:08 wpwrak: don't hold your hopes too high. 2010-09-02 08:08 wolfspraul: cc don't need to do anything. they don't own the copyright anyway. 2010-09-02 08:08 one for all i much better :) 2010-09-02 08:08 wolfspraul: again, see gpl-violations.org. it was harald who started fighting back, not the FSF. 2010-09-02 08:09 I have heard of several cases where handset manufacturers and/or operators were actively trying to _limit_ the possibilities of the SD port, SDIO in particular. 2010-09-02 08:09 wolfspraul: and his ammunition was netfilter and later on also initrd and dosfs. 2010-09-02 08:09 that's why a company like Spectec who is doing lots of SD cards will stay away from using SDIO, and instead use the simplest possible block transfers and proprietary drivers. 2010-09-02 08:10 ah, now on uSD ;-) okay, let's drop the licensing discussion :) 2010-09-02 08:10 none of hese restrictions matte as long as you can bit-bang ;-) 2010-09-02 08:11 for us it will work, I'm just explaining why in the bigger industry I think it cannot easily take off (like you said with "breakout boards for -) 2010-09-02 08:11 many times the lack of extendability is very much a feature 2010-09-02 08:12 I was disappointed to find out from Spectec, for example, that they were moving away from SDIO and towards their own (of course closed) drivers. 2010-09-02 08:12 yeah. it's a control thing. not sure if it really matter in practical term. i mean, who but a small group of freaks would really have some peripherals stick out of their designer phone ? :) 2010-09-02 08:12 not because they wanted to, but because the OS/kernel in the mobile device sometimes also has the function to 'manage' (=restrict) certain things 2010-09-02 08:13 we just see wires, and signals. That's good :-) 2010-09-02 08:13 (spectec) oh, that's sad 2010-09-02 08:14 http://gallery.slashhome.se/main.php?g2_itemId=2914 2010-09-02 08:16 Ornotermes: nice. next step: go to 50 mil spacing and solder the ribbon cable directly to the board :) 2010-09-02 08:17 a bit like the long rounded pads on the board shown here: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/idbg/ 2010-09-02 08:17 i was actually thinking about that 2010-09-02 08:18 (the big ones on top are 100 mil, but the ones below are much narrower. a bit too narrow for ribbon cables in this case, though) 2010-09-02 08:19 package still sitting at customs. mail still down. and the people who are on the road this morning seem to be very unhappy about the people who are on the road this morning, if all the honking is any indication :) 2010-09-02 08:21 wpwrak: in the future i was thinking of a tiny board in size of a uSD card vith a ffc soldered to it (to be able to fit in elecronics with sd ports under battery and such 2010-09-02 08:22 yes, that would be perfect. it's also easier to solder :) 2010-09-02 08:22 but thats a bit in the future 2010-09-02 08:25 Ornotermes: sounds good. i should have an an actual usd-attached peripheral soonish. (ieee 802.15.4 prototype board) just waiting for components ... 2010-09-02 08:26 well, i can already start the design :) 2010-09-02 08:26 nice :) 2010-09-02 08:30 Ornotermes: what is a 'ffc'? 2010-09-02 08:30 wolfspraul: http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00pBzTlwWCCgcM/FFC-Cable.jpg 2010-09-02 08:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible_flat_cable 2010-09-02 08:33 interesting - what is the difference between ffc and fpc? 2010-09-02 08:34 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070531100333AANQ0bA 2010-09-02 08:39 hmm, OK. 2010-09-02 08:39 learnt something :-) 2010-09-02 08:53 wpwrak: http://gallery.slashhome.se/main.php?g2_itemId=2919 2010-09-02 08:57 hehe :) now this is a size i like :) 2010-09-02 08:57 think that will be the design i use 2010-09-02 08:58 what's the spacing ? 50 mil ? 2010-09-02 08:58 if i done thigs right, yes :P 2010-09-02 08:58 things* 2010-09-02 09:00 looks roughly okay. my led board also used a 50 mil spacing for the leds. 2010-09-02 09:01 oh, but aren't your contacts upside-down ? 2010-09-02 09:02 and there's one more thing to consider: a coating for the exposed traces. otherwise, they can short with the case 2010-09-02 09:02 by the way, did you see that uSD power was controlled by PD02 on CPU? 2010-09-02 09:02 yeah. very very useful feature :) 2010-09-02 09:03 upside down? 2010-09-02 09:03 it shows the traces from topside 2010-09-02 09:04 is copper on top or at the bottom ? 2010-09-02 09:04 bottom 2010-09-02 09:04 then it's okay 2010-09-02 09:04 and i dont think there is anythin to short it with on ben 2010-09-02 09:05 the metal casing of the usd holder ? 2010-09-02 09:05 but in production there should be a solder mask 2010-09-02 09:05 ah no, only on the other side 2010-09-02 09:05 and maybe a shielded leyer on top 2010-09-02 09:07 yup. a bit of a ground plane would be nice. 2010-09-02 09:08 but i think that would require a 0.7mm (or even 0.6mm) pcb 2010-09-02 09:09 i measure the uSD to be 0.76mm thich at the thin part 2010-09-02 09:12 not sure an extra copper layer changes much 2010-09-02 09:12 let's see how thick that is ... 2010-09-02 09:13 dont forget a mask on that too 2010-09-02 09:14 36 mm for 1 oz copper 2010-09-02 09:15 you don't need a solder mask :) just a bit of tin. the more contact it makes, the better 2010-09-02 09:15 ah, yes 2010-09-02 09:15 err .. 36 um 2010-09-02 09:16 let's see how much the tin adds ... 2010-09-02 09:17 i was thinking of having it connected to to VSS 2010-09-02 09:18 about 10-20 um for tinning (manual) 2010-09-02 09:18 yup. vss = shield. 2010-09-02 09:19 hates slow customs. it'll miss the deadline for delivery today :-( 2010-09-02 09:20 any extra tin will wear off with time :) so about 870-880 um for the whole board. not too bad. 2010-09-02 09:24 it's still about 100 um thicker then a real world uSD card 2010-09-02 09:25 but if it still fits its really good 2010-09-02 09:26 it's a feature - extra contact pressure for improved reliability :-) 2010-09-02 09:32 i see :P 2010-09-02 09:38 oh well, i have too leave. bye 2010-09-02 09:42 cya 2010-09-02 09:43 ah, package finally got out of customs. let's see if they'll try to deliver it today. 2010-09-02 09:47 congrats! 2010-09-02 09:48 and mail is back, too. the day is looking up :-) 2010-09-02 09:48 a lot of stuff released today :-) I got a Milkymist One released in China, a ML-401 was released in Sweden. Now your package :-) 2010-09-02 09:49 I have one more nasty package stuck in Shanghai, days of struggling with those customs retards. Maybe released tomorrow, we see... 2010-09-02 09:49 batteries ? :-) 2010-09-02 09:50 no just a NanoNote 2010-09-02 09:50 wow. 231 new mails, 0 of them on qi-hw. 2010-09-02 09:50 let's change that 2010-09-02 09:53 what do you mean with "on qi-hw"? 2010-09-02 09:54 discussion@lists.en.qi-hardware.com 2010-09-02 09:54 wpwrak: hey thanks for sharing results, so i will let my router as it is now :) 2010-09-02 09:57 on fedex vehicle. yeah ! 2010-09-02 09:57 ohh 2010-09-02 09:57 now, a quick morning shower :) 2010-09-02 09:57 :) 2010-09-02 09:58 hahah 2010-09-02 10:35 ah, mails are just slowly arriving. that's why there seemed to be none in qihw. 2010-09-02 10:38 xiangfu: welcome to u-boot hell :) 2010-09-02 10:38 wpwrak: :) 2010-09-02 10:39 it's kinda ironic that qi-hw doesn't use something like qi 2010-09-02 10:39 wpwrak: some of the u-boot code are old. like the mmc struct. it's spend me sometime to find out :) 2010-09-02 10:40 xiangfu: i had my share of fun with u-boot in openmoko. it's amzing how much time you can spend on solving problems in u-boot ... 2010-09-02 10:42 :)Â Â time to sleep. see you . 2010-09-02 10:42 sweet dreams ! :) 2010-09-02 10:47 ah, wait a min do i need edit uboot in order to able linux acess gpio wich is not currently used? 2010-09-02 10:50 i guess that is already mapped 2010-09-02 10:50 damm i need readm more.. 2010-09-02 10:50 from user space ? naw, you can do pretty much whatever you please. you may the register file and there you are 2010-09-02 10:50 i updated bbl.c to make things a little clearer 2010-09-02 10:52 wpwrak: yeah user space 2010-09-02 10:55 after bbl update i see comments ! :) 2010-09-02 10:59 wpwrak: you pointed a cypress cpld the other day, can you remenber me the ref? 2010-09-02 11:00 it's mcu with analog and cpld inside. psoc3 and psoc5. 2010-09-02 11:00 ahh 2010-09-02 11:01 paso :) 2010-09-02 11:01 but they're still not in mass production. just for evaluation 2010-09-02 11:01 psoc3 is 8051. psoc5 is arm (cortex) 2010-09-02 11:02 i may start a NO-ARM Campaing in this channel :) 2010-09-02 11:02 s/may/should 2010-09-02 11:02 it's called Milkymist 2010-09-02 11:02 :) 2010-09-02 11:29 celebrates the arrival of the toys :) 2010-09-02 11:33 what kind of toys? 2010-09-02 11:34 emeb: the kind yuo buy at digi-key 2010-09-02 11:34 those are good. 2010-09-02 11:34 parts for new circuits? 2010-09-02 11:53 emeb: yup. lots of rf stuff. also lab supplies. adapters, antennas, and such. 2010-09-02 12:07 ok, i just built with uClibc-0.9.30.2 (instead of uClibc-0.9.32) and now things works again (mkfs*, specifically) 2010-09-02 12:08 seems that upgrade to uClibc-0.9.32 was not smooth after all 2010-09-02 12:09 uClibc-0.9.32 introduced support for nptl, could this be the problem? 2010-09-02 12:50 wow! NanoMap runs on my laptop 2010-09-02 12:51 neil is amazing 2010-09-02 12:59 DocScrutinizer: question: in figure 5-1 at page 8 of http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc5131.pdf 2010-09-02 13:00 DocScrutinizer: which of the two GND connections of the balun B1 would you call "DC feed" ? 2010-09-02 13:00 DocScrutinizer: here's the data sheet of the balun: http://katalog.we-online.de/kataloge/eisos/media/pdf/748421245.pdf 2010-09-02 13:08 i'm back 2010-09-02 13:12 hey good that arrives wpwrak , so it takes 3days ? 2010-09-02 13:13 best wishes in your coming hacking rf adventures :) 2010-09-02 13:13 hi kristianpaul 2010-09-02 13:14 kristianpaul: ~30 h digi-key -> buenos aires, ~32 h customs, ~3 h delivery 2010-09-02 13:14 ohh 2010-09-02 13:15 i missed thet time 2010-09-02 13:15 kristianpaul: here are the details :) http://www.fedex.com/Tracking?action=track&language=english&cntry_code=us&tracknumbers=457396811530 2010-09-02 13:15 gnutoo: wait tuxbrain he will apear eventually 2010-09-02 13:15 kristianpaul: (best wishes) thanks ! :) 2010-09-02 13:15 ah ok he's not there 2010-09-02 13:17 kristianpaul, should I wait a long time, did they usually come here often? 2010-09-02 13:18 gnutoo: he lives here :) 2010-09-02 13:18