2010-08-20 00:00 oh dear 2010-08-20 00:00 this is fun 2010-08-20 00:02 I'm running 2.6.32.10 2010-08-20 00:02 has anybody compiled a working kernel for the nanonote that uses a more recent kernel? 2010-08-20 00:03 I remember seeing the mailing list discussions regarding official inclusion 2010-08-20 00:03 in the mainline, that is 2010-08-20 00:06 ah yes, as of 2.6.36 2010-08-20 00:09 yes definitely there are more recent kernels, 34/35. but I don't know exactly where the patches are or how to build them. I'd say you need to look in openwrt upstream. 2010-08-20 00:09 everything based on the openwrt backfire release will stay with 32 2010-08-20 00:10 that's fine 2010-08-20 00:10 I'm just going to work out how to build it then 2010-08-20 00:11 36 should have a lot of Ben NanoNote stuff mainline, but not everything 2010-08-20 00:11 maybe one or two drivers are still missing, mmc if I recall 2010-08-20 00:11 ls 2010-08-20 00:11 haha 2010-08-20 00:11 WRONG CMD LINE 2010-08-20 00:33 just looking at the patch 2010-08-20 00:33 the one linus merged 2010-08-20 00:33 looks like mmc is there 2010-08-20 00:33 I think 2010-08-20 00:33 but I don't see anything for audio 2010-08-20 00:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: A new try at config.h management: moved it to ../common, along with io.h http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/57f3427 2010-08-20 00:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Generate port, bit, and output mode definitions from io.h http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f8cd15e 2010-08-20 00:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Turn the LED on while in the boot loader. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/3c87d9f 2010-08-20 00:51 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Implemented AT86RF230 reset and access modes. (Completely untested.) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/5447951 2010-08-20 03:44 i have purchased new nanonote 2010-08-20 03:45 want oto put it into usb-bbot mode 2010-08-20 03:45 but when I shorten the two pins then nanonote doesnt bootup 2010-08-20 03:45 plz help 2010-08-20 03:47 just hold the "U" button during power on 2010-08-20 03:47 no need to shorten if you have a working bootloader 2010-08-20 03:57 if I am holding U button the it is not booting up 2010-08-20 03:58 qwebirc47408: you don't need to constantly hold it, just before and while you are pressing the POWER-ON button 2010-08-20 03:58 press the power-on (together with 'u') for a good 2-3 seconds 2010-08-20 03:58 then run 'lsusb' on your Linux host machine 2010-08-20 03:59 you should see an ID 0x601a:471a:ns 2010-08-20 03:59 sorry, - you should see an ID 0x601a:4740 2010-08-20 03:59 qwebirc47408: in USB boot mode you will notice no reaction from nanonote , screen black , you hve to check if is in usb boot by lsusb in host computer and see a new device 0x601a:4740 2010-08-20 03:59 do you see that ID? 2010-08-20 04:01 let me check 2010-08-20 04:04 yes i m getting 2010-08-20 04:05 how can I develop any C application for it and run over nanonote 2010-08-20 04:09 qwebirc47408: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Compiling_for_the_NanoNote 2010-08-20 04:11 qwebirc47408: that's a great start! :-) 2010-08-20 04:11 if you see that ID, it means your NanoNote is alive, the CPU is running, and waiting for instructions 2010-08-20 04:12 it is not supposed to boot in that mode 2010-08-20 04:12 ok 2010-08-20 04:12 what to do next 2010-08-20 04:12 now you can run reflash_ben.sh, although I hate that script :-) 2010-08-20 04:12 I want to reflash theÂ Â nanonote 2010-08-20 04:12 how shall I run usbboot application 2010-08-20 04:12 you have usbboot installed already? 2010-08-20 04:12 then just run reflash_ben.sh 2010-08-20 04:12 how to check it 2010-08-20 04:13 i have installed openwrt-xburst 2010-08-20 04:13 you need to install the xburst-tools package 2010-08-20 04:13 that's the sources, that comes later 2010-08-20 04:14 yes I have 2010-08-20 04:15 do you have reflash_ben.sh ? download and run 2010-08-20 04:15 I believe we do have some instructions in the wiki for that 2010-08-20 04:15 if you see the 601a:4740 ID all is fine. Now run reflash_ben.sh 2010-08-20 04:15 I have downloaded reflash_ben and running it 2010-08-20 04:16 what all will happen with this 2010-08-20 04:20 it will download the 0613 image and reflash the ben 2010-08-20 04:22 weren't all these questions from beginner's guide?... 2010-08-20 05:27 btw, wasn't there a photo viewer? 2010-08-20 05:29 bartbes: imgv 2010-08-20 05:30 is it in the default image? 2010-08-20 05:30 yes, it is 2010-08-20 05:30 thanks! 2010-08-20 05:30 he, just trying 2010-08-20 05:31 ah well, my jpeg is too big 2010-08-20 05:31 (for the memory) 2010-08-20 05:31 we will cleanup the openwrt default app list and testing plan 'really soon', then a lot more should be included and stay included 2010-08-20 05:32 interestingly enough I have yet to run out of memory while running a game engine, while I run out wanting to view a simple photo 2010-08-20 05:32 I have imgv but if I run it without parameters it just hangs 2010-08-20 05:32 :-) 2010-08-20 05:32 scaling pictures can be very memory consuming, unless the scaling algorithm is specifically written to reduce memory footprint 2010-08-20 05:33 imgv --help or --version should at least say something, oh well... 2010-08-20 05:33 true 2010-08-20 05:33 anyway, it was just a test to see if my camera supported SDHC 2010-08-20 05:34 well, 'my' imgv doesn't hang when I run it (even without parameters) 2010-08-20 05:34 and about why --help and --version don't help, they just don't exist ;) 2010-08-20 05:35 I doubt it does any kind of arguments 2010-08-20 05:42 cp: cannot stat `./files/qmake.conf': No such file or directory 2010-08-20 05:42 this is from recent qt 2010-08-20 05:43 actually, i'm tired of things being broken every now and then upstream 2010-08-20 05:43 i should better neve make package/symlinks 2010-08-20 05:43 do they even test before they commit? 2010-08-20 05:47 kyak: testing is overrated :P 2010-08-20 07:49 mirko: how is imgv supposed to work? in the 08-15 testing image, I try 'imgv some_image.jpg' and it just hangs. 2010-08-20 07:49 ctrl-c will exit 2010-08-20 07:52 reflashing is taking long time . is it ok ? 2010-08-20 07:52 how long? 2010-08-20 07:53 20-30 minutes should be ok. 2010-08-20 07:55 it is already 1 hr gone but stuked at fetching rootfs 2010-08-20 07:57 that's not right 2010-08-20 07:57 oh well 2010-08-20 07:57 wait, maybe it is downloading? what is your internet speed? 2010-08-20 08:01 512Kbps 2010-08-20 08:08 could take an hour maybe. not sure. also I don't know how to check the download progress with the script. 2010-08-20 08:13 how can i develop simple C application for it 2010-08-20 08:13 and test it 2010-08-20 08:27 wpwrak: hey, after a while, yesterday, the bechnmark gives better values, no a lot more though.. : 65MB/s 2010-08-20 08:32 yeah, most tests you need to avarage as well 2010-08-20 10:18 zedstar: sorry I haven't gotten to replying to your mail yet. definitely will! 2010-08-20 10:18 sometime 2010-08-20 10:18 in about 3 years 2010-08-20 10:18 or later 2010-08-20 10:18 he 2010-08-20 10:19 I spend 50% of my time adding items to my todo list nowadays. Something is wrong... 2010-08-20 10:30 you should add 'Stop adding items to my todo list' to your todo list ;) 2010-08-20 10:32 or if you want to cross something off 2010-08-20 10:32 'Add something to my todo list' 2010-08-20 11:13 hey guys 2010-08-20 11:14 quick question: whats the name for a powersupply with 16 pins, I cannot find one on the internet 2010-08-20 11:23 wtf? there are billions of power supplies with 16 pins 2010-08-20 11:23 if you're talking about PC power supplies this is the wrong channel 2010-08-20 11:27 he left, maybe realising that 2010-08-20 11:27 he ran out of power ;) 2010-08-20 12:10 hmm, if anyone is running a recent kernel under openwrt, it would be interesting to try the memset benchmark there, too. to exclude kernel differences as possible causes. 2010-08-20 12:10 the code is here: http://pastebin.ca/1919777 2010-08-20 12:11 lekernel: nice analysis, thanks ! so my estimates are basically sane. 2010-08-20 12:16 (running the benchmark) just compile, maybe with -O9 to make sure the compiler doesn't do anything funny, run top to make sure that there's nothing that burns cpu, then run the benchmark a few times with time ./a.out 2010-08-20 12:16 it just takes a few seconds 2010-08-20 12:19 try enabling RT priority too (ie context switches disabled) 2010-08-20 12:20 and write your own memset, in assembler if needed 2010-08-20 12:20 lekernel: (rt) naw, i'd rather not do that. might upset the timekeeping. 2010-08-20 12:21 then use hwclock calls? 2010-08-20 12:21 (own memset) i hope to get others interested in doing that, should it be necessary :) 2010-08-20 12:22 (hwclock) uh, too complex for this little benchmark 2010-08-20 12:22 it's not as if it would suffer high variability anyway 2010-08-20 12:24 apparently it does :) 2010-08-20 12:24 right now, i'm not so much after maximizing memset, but after confirming that openwrt-based memset is slower than jlime-based 2010-08-20 12:25 on the same system ? just a few percent 2010-08-20 12:32 @#%. why does that silly device not respond to my control messages. almost the same code worked a gazillion times before. 2010-08-20 12:33 hates chasing trivial bugs 2010-08-20 12:41 oh, lovely. looks like yet another sdcc compiler bug :-( 2010-08-20 12:42 what do you need to benchmark? 2010-08-20 12:42 I'm not running openwrt, but I run a 2.6.35.1 iirc 2010-08-20 12:43 viric: is your system uClibc-based ? 2010-08-20 12:43 wpwrak: no 2010-08-20 12:43 glibc. 2010-08-20 12:44 I can build that program for uclibc maybe. 2010-08-20 12:44 (not with glibc) 2010-08-20 12:44 well, could be useful to have another data point anyway. what system is it ? debian ? 2010-08-20 12:44 wpwrak: It's nixpkgs based 2010-08-20 12:44 wpwrak: (glibc 2.11.2, gcc 4.5.1, kernel 2.6.35.1) 2010-08-20 12:45 oh, very exotic ;-) another data point would definitely be fun then :) 2010-08-20 12:45 is that going to give evident results? or I have to measure in any special way? 2010-08-20 12:47 viric: naw, just check with top nothing else burns a lot of cpu time. then run the benchmark a few times withÂ Â time ./a.out 2010-08-20 12:47 ok 2010-08-20 12:48 wpwrak: a dynamic ELF? 2010-08-20 12:49 doesn't matter 2010-08-20 12:50 just use -O9 to make sure gcc tries to be efficient 2010-08-20 12:50 O9? 2010-08-20 12:50 gcc -O9 2010-08-20 12:50 ok ok 2010-08-20 12:50 I thought you had mistyped -O0 :) 2010-08-20 12:50 -O9 is like -O3 iirc 2010-08-20 12:51 just like any -Ox with x > 3 2010-08-20 12:51 ok 2010-08-20 12:51 lekernel: yup. it's idiomatic use for "make it as fast as you can" :-) 2010-08-20 12:52 running 2010-08-20 12:53 around 4.44s on avg for real/user time 2010-08-20 12:53 wpwrak: is that good? 2010-08-20 12:54 viric: interesting. that's about 57 MB/s, much faster than openwrt but a bit slower than jlime 2010-08-20 12:54 maybe rafa is just overclocking his ben ;) 2010-08-20 12:55 the boot loader does the SDRAM initialization, so it can be relevant for memory bandwidth 2010-08-20 12:55 although I think all distros use the same boot loader, right? 2010-08-20 12:55 hehe 2010-08-20 12:55 wpwrak: is that jlime uclibc based? 2010-08-20 12:56 mth: oh. the kernel doesn't reset those things ? darn 2010-08-20 12:56 I'll tell you what bootloader I use... 2010-08-20 12:56 no, the current kernel does not touch them 2010-08-20 12:56 jlime is faster than openwrt? 2010-08-20 12:57 mth: sigh. one more variable in the equation :-( 2010-08-20 12:57 the old gmenu2x version does change the PLL frequency, which also determines the MCLK value 2010-08-20 12:57 I'm using uboot 2010.06 with the patches from openwrt-xburst tree 3244d5ef9f93802f9b9b6f4405636424abf6fa83 2010-08-20 12:57 (gemnu2x) wow. boldly stumbling where even the kernel doesn't dare to go 2010-08-20 12:57 the new gmenu2x uses cpufreq in sysfs to control the clocks, but there is no cpufreq support in the NanoNote kernel yet 2010-08-20 12:58 but the old gmenu2x would reprogram the hardware via /dev/mem 2010-08-20 12:58 nebajoth: at least for memset, it seems to be 2010-08-20 12:59 mth: are you by any chance running an up to date openwrt at the moment ? 2010-08-20 13:00 no, I don't even have a NanoNote, only a Dingoo 2010-08-20 13:00 ah, pity 2010-08-20 13:01 I'd like to see openwrt run on the Dingoo, but we didn't get very far yet 2010-08-20 13:01 I did port lars_'s kernel though 2010-08-20 13:01 kewl 2010-08-20 13:03 what is lars_'s kernel? 2010-08-20 13:03 the one in the qi-kernel repository 2010-08-20 13:03 mth, rafa's getting my old dingoo soon, so we can hope for jlime port to the dingoo ;) 2010-08-20 13:04 nice :) 2010-08-20 13:05 rafa: please use the OpenDingux kernel then, it's more up-to-date than booboo's and it's still being maintained 2010-08-20 13:05 if you encounter any problems, please ask me 2010-08-20 13:05 as in 'what mips processor' the nanonote has... it's mips1? 2010-08-20 13:05 also, it is much more like the NanoNote's kernel 2010-08-20 13:05 (from the options mips2, mips3, ...)? 2010-08-20 13:06 mips32 I think 2010-08-20 13:06 or maybe mips32r2? 2010-08-20 13:06 ah 2010-08-20 13:07 how to know? 2010-08-20 13:10 I'll go for mips32r2 2010-08-20 13:10 and see 2010-08-20 13:26 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added library for items commonly shared among tools. http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/7501137 2010-08-20 13:26 [commit] Werner Almesberger: version.h is no longer generated and it thus only creates confusion if http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/2a58505 2010-08-20 13:30 mth: what? 2010-08-20 13:30 opendingux kernel for what? 2010-08-20 13:31 viric: mips32r1 2010-08-20 13:32 in terms of gcc arch, mips32, right? 2010-08-20 13:33 yes 2010-08-20 13:33 ok 2010-08-20 13:34 mth: ah.. for dingoo :D 2010-08-20 13:35 mth: yeah.. I still need to learn the whole system you already have 2010-08-20 15:16 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Put libraries at end of linker invocation to make it work with local http://qi-hw.com/p/f32xbase/fa7fb48 2010-08-20 15:27 [commit] Werner Almesberger: - fw/atspi/Makefile (USB_ID): corrected and updated USB ID extraction http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9a6b3fc 2010-08-20 15:27 [commit] Werner Almesberger: More config rearranging: USB IDs are now in include/atspi/usb-ids.h, which http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/537c675 2010-08-20 15:27 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Simplified the presentation of build date information and added a http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bb4b07f 2010-08-20 15:27 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Fix typo and make "make dfu" work again. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bf74a03 2010-08-20 15:27 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Introduce library with ATSPI access functions (largely untested) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/ac349b0 2010-08-20 15:28 ah, been a while since the last push ;-) 2010-08-20 16:35 wpwrak: that benchmark I did... all was compiled for mips1 2010-08-20 16:35 wpwrak: instead of mips32 2010-08-20 17:21 wpwrak: I'll try with uclibc your memset benchmark 2010-08-20 17:22 wpwrak: 4.03s in average 2010-08-20 17:23 it is gcc 4.5.1 + uclibc 0.9.31 for mips32 2010-08-20 17:23 (statically linked test) 2010-08-20 17:33 wpwrak: Now I built with glibc for mips32 (the 4.4s measure was for mips1), and in this case I get an average of 3.96 2010-08-20 17:37 ah, so now they're the same. 64 MB/s. 2010-08-20 17:38 is that the jlime speed? 2010-08-20 17:39 I hope with this 'mips32' (I thought I had to use mips1 before) prboom will take less battery :) 2010-08-20 17:39 yes, that's roughly the jlime speed. i think rafa said ~68 MB/s. so that's well within tolerances. 2010-08-20 17:39 [commit] Juan64Bits: Routing http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/899d599 2010-08-20 17:39 hehe ;-) 2010-08-20 17:39 ah no. he wrote 65 MB/s. so it's the same. 2010-08-20 17:40 what options did you use on gcc ? 2010-08-20 17:40 building gcc? 2010-08-20 17:40 no, when invoking it 2010-08-20 17:40 gcc -static -O9 2010-08-20 17:40 ah, nothing special for the cpu then 2010-08-20 17:40 well 2010-08-20 17:41 the gcc was built with "--with-arch=mips32" 2010-08-20 17:41 so it assumes that arch 2010-08-20 17:41 at every invocation 2010-08-20 17:44 hmm. mine seems to be mips1, too 2010-08-20 17:45 the mips gcc should support several mips targets. you can switch them with -march=mips1|mips32|etc. no need to rebuild gcc just for that 2010-08-20 17:45 right. 2010-08-20 17:45 well, for my case it's not any additional effort 2010-08-20 17:45 and this way I don't have to set anything special building every package. I get mips32 everywhere 2010-08-20 17:46 one man's excessive effort is another man's laziness ;-) 2010-08-20 17:46 :) 2010-08-20 17:46 now, let's see how this goes on my ben ... 2010-08-20 17:47 i should probably remove gmenu2x if it likes to play with the clocks ... 2010-08-20 17:47 I don't have it 2010-08-20 17:48 I think the newest version should not play with clocks it was removed due flickering screen problems, but I'm not totally sure about this 2010-08-20 17:49 do you use any NES emulator in the ben? 2010-08-20 17:50 tuxbrain2: yes, but this ben of mine still has the factory installation. i'll save the system upgrade for another day. 2010-08-20 17:51 viric: me ? no. so far, i hardly "use" it at all. it suffers considerable abuse on the hardware side, though ;-) 2010-08-20 17:51 so if you have the old gmenu2x yes remove it to do the performance tests 2010-08-20 17:51 wpwrak: ok :) 2010-08-20 18:03 after getting rid of gmenu2x, i get ~60 MB/s. too. no difference between mips1 and mips32 here. mips32r2 is a bit faster, though. (~2 MB/s) 2010-08-20 18:04 wpwrak: lars_ said the cpu should be mips32, not mips32r2 2010-08-20 18:04 maybe it is something in between 2010-08-20 18:04 wpwrak: the difference between mips1 and mips32 is at the time of compiling the libc, not the program 2010-08-20 18:05 (mips1) ah, okay 2010-08-20 18:05 (mips32r2) maybe it turns into a mips32r2 only for benchmarks ;-) 2010-08-20 18:16 tuxbrain2: can you paste somewhere your asoundrc configuration? 2010-08-20 18:17 viric actually using jlime , it can be valid? 2010-08-20 18:19 also if you can tell me where this file is sopossed to be will be helpfull as well, I using opkg that drain resources as hell and not able do do a #find 2010-08-20 18:20 yes 2010-08-20 18:20 I only want the soft volume 2010-08-20 18:21 tuxbrain2: ~/.asoundrc? 2010-08-20 18:21 or /etc/alsa/asoundrc? I'm not sure 2010-08-20 18:39 I have no found any asoundrc file in jlime---? 2010-08-20 19:06 oh. 2010-08-20 19:06 and you have softvol? 2010-08-20 19:08 Btw, I'm trying to run mpg321, and it does not work fast enough for the ben 2010-08-20 19:10 although it uses the same libmad 'madplay' should use. 2010-08-20 19:11 [commit] Andres Calderon: some eth-phy to s6 nets has been routed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/033f361 2010-08-20 20:10 [commit] Andres Calderon: some eth-phy to s6 nets has been routed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/e0d4a59 2010-08-20 21:07 [commit] Andres Calderon: some eth-phy to s6 nets has been routed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/7c3c9a8 2010-08-20 21:10 [commit] Andres Calderon: some eth-phy to s6 nets has been routed http://qi-hw.com/p/xue/a56645a 2010-08-20 22:20 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Active-high IRQ_RF was routed to active-low interrupt input http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1d07933 2010-08-20 22:20 [commit] Werner Almesberger: xxx_MODE were used as if they were port bits, not registers. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/14c1b4c 2010-08-20 22:20 [commit] Werner Almesberger: We can now read the transceiver's registers. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/4b20421 2010-08-20 22:56 hi all. 2010-08-20 23:04 hi 2010-08-20 23:05 Mr. Spraul! Nice to meet you. 2010-08-20 23:06 I got my nn on Monday and have been enjoying it. 2010-08-20 23:06 same here - what takes you here? 2010-08-20 23:06 oh nice! well thanks for buying one first of all! 2010-08-20 23:06 you just entered a massive construction site :-) 2010-08-20 23:07 Hehe. I can see that! But it's well worth it. It takes me back to the fun of discovery I enjoyed as a child in the late 1980s. 2010-08-20 23:08 I'm here tonight because I've been playing with the startup sequence and I'd like to understand it better. 2010-08-20 23:09 turtlee: "I am a craftsman and I live and work within the belief that fine, durable workmanship combined with good design helps create a better world. I am passionate about quality and have been fortunate to study its expression in wood, metal, leather, and stone." 2010-08-20 23:09 that's you? 2010-08-20 23:09 Indeed it is. 2010-08-20 23:09 great! we wish we get to those standards one day... it's a very good mission statement. 2010-08-20 23:10 Werner has been doing some 3D scanning work lately, have you seen that? 2010-08-20 23:10 No, I haven't. Do you have a link? 2010-08-20 23:10 http://www.almesberger.net/misc/ben/scan/ 2010-08-20 23:11 mailing list thread about the 3d scans: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-July/003231.html 2010-08-20 23:11 and: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2010-July/003379.html 2010-08-20 23:11 also welcome turtlee 2010-08-20 23:12 your mission statement sounds awesome 2010-08-20 23:13 Thanks very much. I also like this quote from Anthony Bourdain that a friend sent me the other day: 2010-08-20 23:13 People will continue to pay for quality. They will be less and less 2010-08-20 23:13 inclined, however, to pay for bullshit." 2010-08-20 23:14 woops. 2010-08-20 23:14 "If there's a new and lasting credo from the Big Shakeout, it's this: People will continue to pay for quality. They will be less and less inclined, however, to pay for bullshit." 2010-08-20 23:14 Well, close enough. 2010-08-20 23:14 well exchanging these nice words is good, but for the Ben we have to keep our expectations realistic. It's a long way. 2010-08-20 23:15 for example several connectors really suck, sorry about that 2010-08-20 23:15 as a mechanical guy it's painful for me to imagine that you take a closer look one day 2010-08-20 23:15 battery connector for example 2010-08-20 23:15 microSD connector, especially insertion pin 2010-08-20 23:15 Fair enough, but it's still a pleasure to hold, and that's a start. 2010-08-20 23:15 thanks, yes. it's not a hopeless start. 2010-08-20 23:15 did you see werner's work? 2010-08-20 23:16 (the url) 2010-08-20 23:16 I did. It's wildly cool. Thanks very much. 2010-08-20 23:16 So, were there not solid models before the molds were made? 2010-08-20 23:17 we bought the design, and the tooling process was done without any input or oversight from us 2010-08-20 23:17 Ah, that makes sense. 2010-08-20 23:17 our volumes are too low for our own professional mechanical design right now 2010-08-20 23:17 but now we have work like Werner's so hopefully we get this process all opened up slowly 2010-08-20 23:17 werner is hanging out here in irc, btw, his nick is wpwrak 2010-08-20 23:18 At least you found a way to produce at your low volumes. 2010-08-20 23:18 yes 2010-08-20 23:18 very hard work, but it's moving 2010-08-20 23:18 I preordered a Pandora last December. Ultimately gave up. 2010-08-20 23:18 Cancelled and ordered a BeagleBoard and an nn. 2010-08-20 23:19 yes our project is very different from those, in priorities 2010-08-20 23:19 for me manufacturability comes first 2010-08-20 23:19 welcome, turtlee ! you came to the right place :) mechanical is the weakest area of the whole process (and the device has its flaws there, too) 2010-08-20 23:20 Thanks, Werner. :) 2010-08-20 23:21 I look at the frustration on the Pandora boards, and I think if they'd started from manufacturability at the outset, they could have arrived at this point with a lot more polish on the software and a lot more enthusiasm, even after the long wait. 2010-08-20 23:22 hell yeah 2010-08-20 23:22 wolfspraul is a pragmatist 2010-08-20 23:22 and it makes all the difference in the world 2010-08-20 23:22 the pandora guys are fighting a massive uphill battle 2010-08-20 23:22 just like torvalds is a pragmatist 2010-08-20 23:22 first they use more 'high-tech' than we have in the NanoNote, like the OMAP chip, and Wi-Fi 2010-08-20 23:23 I've been cruising around playing Flashback (via REmeniscence) and Monuments of Mars (via dosbox) on my nn. 2010-08-20 23:23 then they do some work steps in China (mechanical), but they seem to have zero experience in actual manufacturing, so they learn painful lessons, and slowly. 2010-08-20 23:24 now they are moving more work to the UK, and sooner or later they will realize that costs are going through the roof. 2010-08-20 23:24 so I don't know. 2010-08-20 23:24 I make my little NanoNote. 2010-08-20 23:24 maufacturing under control 2010-08-20 23:24 And I enjoy your little nanonote. 2010-08-20 23:24 can sell profitably at 99 USD, actually working towards reducing prices 2010-08-20 23:25 I take the beating and laughing over the hardware specs, no problem. Others can wait for their Pandora, position whatever in the queue :-) 2010-08-20 23:25 Heh, and they're just another layer. Look at the comments at Engadget about Pandora, and it's the same story. 2010-08-20 23:26 people don't like the hw specs anymore? 2010-08-20 23:26 engadget is typically just a hw spec pissing match 2010-08-20 23:26 Exactly. 2010-08-20 23:26 "hey, my LCM has 40,000 dpi, how about yours?" 2010-08-20 23:27 So, here's my experience: 2010-08-20 23:27 it's hilarious :-) also engadget has how much percent news that is just announcements? I stopped wondering. 2010-08-20 23:27 of course if you have to compete over numbers eventually you find out the numbers in the announcements are so much higher 2010-08-20 23:28 we should announce a new NanoNote, with specs that beat the iPhone 2010-08-20 23:28 I'm sure engadget would take the 'story' (ahem) 2010-08-20 23:28 Hah! That'll net you some press, at any rate. 2010-08-20 23:28 yeah, embarassing, isn't it. 2010-08-20 23:28 this will never happen here. 2010-08-20 23:28 Bravo. 2010-08-20 23:29 I rather build it slowly and through actual strength rather than announcements strength. 2010-08-20 23:29 You and I are of the same mind. 2010-08-20 23:30 wolfspraul: you're too late. there's that video about the "xphone" ... 2010-08-20 23:31 looks into the youtube 2010-08-20 23:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udlxr8t1nZM 2010-08-20 23:34 Hah! 2010-08-20 23:35 I took my foray into app-phones with a Droid, and am nonplussed. I think it's fair to say that I am not the target audience for convergence devices. 2010-08-20 23:37 Anyway, 2010-08-20 23:37 I do have some specific tech questions. 2010-08-20 23:38 (and will be back here to talk shop again. you guys are fantastic.) 2010-08-20 23:38 what 2010-08-20 23:38 its a trap! 2010-08-20 23:38 wpwrak: hah yes, it's great! thanks for the link didn't see it before 2010-08-20 23:39 I've already deactivated the gp2x menu 2010-08-20 23:39 per the new user guide instructions on the wiki. 2010-08-20 23:39 real men run debian 2010-08-20 23:39 nebajoth: Ah! So they do. Do we have a good keymap for debian yet? 2010-08-20 23:40 well 2010-08-20 23:40 yes 2010-08-20 23:40 not integrated into the rootfs yet though :D 2010-08-20 23:40 but nothing keeping anybody from downloading it and using loadkeys 2010-08-20 23:40 and even making it automatic 2010-08-20 23:40 Brilliant. 2010-08-20 23:41 Because that would probably induce answers to my other questions right away. 2010-08-20 23:41 http://gitorious.org/mzcode/nanonotes/blobs/public/keymaps/us_bnn.kmap 2010-08-20 23:41 that one works nicely 2010-08-20 23:42 I further customized that one to make the capslock key give a dash (-) 2010-08-20 23:42 which I use all the time since I don't have any graphical environment installed on my NN 2010-08-20 23:42 And the flashing instructions on pyneo.org are good? 2010-08-20 23:42 yeah basically 2010-08-20 23:42 it leaves out some important bits 2010-08-20 23:42 like the fact that you pretty much NEED swap space to run apt-get 2010-08-20 23:43 at least until I figure out where the hell compcache went in 2.6.36 2010-08-20 23:44 But I can put that on the onboard nand, right? I've got an 8gig microsd. Not exactly hurting for space. 2010-08-20 23:44