2010-08-10 00:00 well i can generate the world on my desktop 2010-08-10 00:00 of course the best thing would be to ask them if they'd be willing to target the NN 2010-08-10 00:00 it's just got a single programmer who's already buisy enough bugfixing the game 2010-08-10 00:01 does the nn have libpng12? 2010-08-10 00:01 alrighty im out for now, thanks for the help unclouded 2010-08-10 00:01 it seems you need 10 times the CPU power to emulate another machine, so a 330 MHz NN might be equivalent to a 33 MHz 486 2010-08-10 00:01 not sure if it's needed for a bash though 2010-08-10 00:01 yea that's what i was mostly worried of 2010-08-10 00:02 i figured it was a longshot. my other choice is running it over ssh with wifi 2010-08-10 00:03 presumably that will work if the new version can run in terminal mode.Â Â best to check first though! 2010-08-10 00:03 best to check first? 2010-08-10 00:04 looks like libpng has been ported to OpenWRT, not sure of the version though.Â Â of course if you install Gentoo on SD then you have access to every single Gentoo port 2010-08-10 00:04 ooohhhhhh :) 2010-08-10 00:04 which would of course include angband, nethack and so on. 2010-08-10 00:07 would the next device to follow the nn be a ways off still? 2010-08-10 00:08 i just wouldn't want to buy a nn and have something new come out next week :) 2010-08-10 00:11 snes-nethack-sdl- what other cool uses are there? 2010-08-10 00:11 no idea sorry.Â Â The Ya NanoNote definitely won't be out next week.Â Â if you're considering a NN, you should be aware of the shortcomings such as no USB HOST but don't forget the good point too: it's cheap, it's got a real keyboard that is surprisingly nice to type on, it's incredibly small and it's actually available now, unlike the Pandora 2010-08-10 00:12 ah k thx! 2010-08-10 00:14 I guess different people will find different uses.Â Â I only want to take a single device with me and that's my phone, so the NN won't be going everywhere with me.Â Â I do think it would be great to take in to the garden with astronomy software and to emulate the C64 2010-08-10 00:14 there's a page about use cases too: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_use_cases 2010-08-10 00:15 music player is a big one: a music player that actually has a keyboard with which to cue up your next track 2010-08-10 00:16 yea 2010-08-10 00:16 would the cpu be fast enough for videos? 2010-08-10 00:17 not sure.Â Â I think people have done MPEG1 transcoded to 320x240 although I don't know if it would handle MPEG4 2010-08-10 00:19 ah- what about mouse controls? does it have a nub/joystick thing like some laptops have or? 2010-08-10 00:20 no dedicated mouse but I think people have emulated a mouse with the arrow keys, which are laid out nicely 2010-08-10 00:21 does it have java support? 2010-08-10 00:22 sorry if most of my questions seem like i'm asking too much from a simple device 2010-08-10 00:22 i'm just wondering how far i can go with it 2010-08-10 00:25 doesn't look like it's ported to OpenWRT.Â Â not sure if OpenJDK has been ported to MIPS or not 2010-08-10 00:25 questions are fine ;) 2010-08-10 00:29 how would i go about using a usb:eth cable with it? 2010-08-10 00:31 i found a small portable wifi router that i could use 2010-08-10 00:31 it comes with a standard USB A to micro B cable.Â Â when you use one to connect your workstation to the NN, the workstation gains a usb0 interface.Â Â The NN already had one.Â Â then you configured those two interfaces and you have a small private network 2010-08-10 00:31 then you can set up NAT on your workstation so your NN can get to the Internet via your workstation 2010-08-10 00:32 i'm just wondering about connecting it to a wireless router running as a client over eth 2010-08-10 00:32 your wireless router would have to support USB HOST 2010-08-10 00:33 well my idea is to use this http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1065011&CatId=2667 2010-08-10 00:33 powered by a small duracell usb charter 2010-08-10 00:33 and plug the nn into the wifi point over ethernet 2010-08-10 00:35 not sure.Â Â it doesn't say whether it supports USB HOST.Â Â I'm a bit out of my depth here but I'd suggest looking at OpenWRT supported devices and see which have USB HOST 2010-08-10 00:37 well, it would connect to the nanonote over ethernet 2010-08-10 00:37 is usb host needed for a usb-ethernet conversion? 2010-08-10 00:38 ah oh well- too much to carry around anyway 2010-08-10 00:39 if you really have to get the NN on to the Internet when you're out and about then SDIO wifi seems the way to go.Â Â if don't mind putting some work in you could look into tethering your phone to the NN's serial port and using GPRS or 3G to access the Internet 2010-08-10 00:40 serial port? 2010-08-10 00:42 yes, the NN has a serial port.Â Â It would need some electronics to get it tethered to a phone though so not really an option unless you're into that sort of thing 2010-08-10 00:43 i don't even have a nice phone to tether to 2010-08-10 00:43 i came acrost a couple pages on nn wifi... 2010-08-10 00:44 surprisingly many phones can be tethered.Â Â check the gnokii package in your gentoo for more information 2010-08-10 00:44 my phone doesn't even have 3g. or text messaging. or anything other than calling. 2010-08-10 00:44 which phone is it? 2010-08-10 00:44 a really really old nextel one 2010-08-10 00:45 maybe you are out of luck there ;) 2010-08-10 00:45 i'd like to get an android phone such as the droid, but at minimum wage...... 2010-08-10 00:56 not sure what other uses i could have for the nn... 2010-08-10 00:56 would be cool for nethack and custom-made sdl games on the go :) 2010-08-10 00:59 the limit is your imagination ;)Â Â python is installed as standard and pygame is an "opkg install pygame" away if you want to be a road warrior 2010-08-10 00:59 ah- forgot all about python! i'm a little more familiar with pygame than perl-sdl actually 2010-08-10 01:00 and what about using directFB instead of an x server? 2010-08-10 01:00 is that tricky to setup? 2010-08-10 01:03 there's nothing to do.Â Â it just goes.Â Â just install pygame and start your python app.Â Â you might need to update to the latest firmware to have python installed as standard.Â Â I got great help from this channel when updating the firmware on my NN on the first day I got it 2010-08-10 01:03 ah, so directFB is just automatic for graphical apps? 2010-08-10 01:03 sounds suspiciously simple :) 2010-08-10 01:05 it really is that simple.Â Â pygame is bound to SDL and SDL uses directfb and directfb uses the kernel frame buffer device 2010-08-10 01:06 neat 2010-08-10 01:09 so there's another use case: go through all the pygame games and see which run well on the NN ;) 2010-08-10 01:09 or write your own, on the device itself if you like 2010-08-10 01:29 wpwrak: I think your --plot extension to eeschema has not yet gone upstream 2010-08-10 01:29 in terms of finding the root .sch, I think the .pro file might have a link to it? 2010-08-10 01:30 at least that would be an official 'pointer' instead of inventing some new way to identify the root. of course we would then need to look for .pro files and follow the link to the root .sch 2010-08-10 01:31 [commit] Panthera T. Altaica: Moved to Code::Blocks and GCC http://qi-hw.com/p/wakan-udtn/a725a27 2010-08-10 01:54 in the .pro file, there seems to be a RootSch= settings (under [general]), is that useful? 2010-08-10 02:09 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: cleanup the output message http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/b21d2e4 2010-08-10 03:22 larsc: hmm nice; maybe I really have hw problems then 2010-08-10 03:22 larsc: thank you for the try. So it may have hapened that the hw broke between the switch from 2.6.34 to 2.6.35 2010-08-10 03:25 viric: the way the insert-detect pin is mechanically designed is really bad in the microSD connector used in the Ben NanoNote 2010-08-10 03:25 we already oud this out the painful way, and will have our eye on it for future devices 2010-08-10 03:25 s/oud/found/ 2010-08-10 03:25 i'm not sure whether that is what you have, it's just an idea 2010-08-10 03:26 sometimes that little metal tongue is pushed up (sometimes you can push it back down after opening the device) 2010-08-10 04:10 [commit] Bas Wijnen: start nand-boot; wrap startup http://qi-hw.com/p/iris/e4151e7 2010-08-10 04:22 wolfspraul: ok, I will check 2010-08-10 04:22 wolfspraul: thank you 2010-08-10 04:45 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update the debian/changelog http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/c5fb137 2010-08-10 04:45 [commit] Xiangfu Liu: add debian/watch file http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/ae00b64 2010-08-10 05:18 I have decided to avoid buying Ben NanoNote, because it doesn't have internal bluetooth and is rather slow (only 32M ram, while modern Mandriva works slowly even on 512M RAM computer) 2010-08-10 05:19 Is it planned to make next generation device with some wireless connectivity, bluetooth or wi-fi? 2010-08-10 05:19 bt for me is preferable 2010-08-10 05:20 Necrosporus: there's a lot of discussions around that. personally I think both bt and wi-fi are unlikely. 2010-08-10 05:20 Than internal USB 2010-08-10 05:20 it's just very hard to make any progress on the freedom side with these technologies, and if the hardware we are making is just about licensing proprietary technology, we could stop the project and license something really good right away :-) 2010-08-10 05:21 wolfspraul, I already have some USB dongle which work with gNewSense 2010-08-10 05:21 if it only had a regular size usb host, one could use that bt dongle: http://img19.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/11/73/48/52/1173485292 2010-08-10 05:21 yes sure, more memory, usb host/on-the-go, and also some rf, although not sure about bt and wi-fi 2010-08-10 05:21 though if it's gonna be mini usb host, need to put a mini to regular size usb adapter 2010-08-10 05:21 I can peel it from plastic and plug inside 2010-08-10 05:22 wolfspraul, what's rf? 2010-08-10 05:23 zear, I have no idea, where can I get such a dongle 2010-08-10 05:23 Necrosporus, every ebay auction 2010-08-10 05:23 So it would be preferable to make a internal USB port 2010-08-10 05:23 they're in computer stores now too 2010-08-10 05:23 sorry with rf I mean anything radio, like the bluetooth and wi-fi you mention 2010-08-10 05:23 Necrosporus, they're also silly cheap 2010-08-10 05:23 maybe 5 EUR 2010-08-10 05:25 2 internal usb to plug some flash and bluetooth dongle inside the device 2010-08-10 05:25 Or 2 microSD + 1 internal usb 2010-08-10 05:25 there are even smaller dongles ;) http://img17.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/11/73/55/50/1173555080 2010-08-10 05:27 I wonder if it's possible to make a usb flash which can be drown into USB port completely 2010-08-10 05:27 you have to get it out somehow 2010-08-10 05:27 It would be impossible to extract it without special tools, but it would be invisible 2010-08-10 05:28 If someone would not try to insert another USB device into that port 2010-08-10 05:28 i have also seen wifi dongles that are just slightly bigger from that size bt dongles 2010-08-10 05:30 Anyway, I want a device for reading books from fb2 files 2010-08-10 05:31 It should be able to receive files from bluetooth, or at least support some sort of memory cards, it should have some backlight andÂ Â good-for-eyes screen 2010-08-10 05:32 I'm not sure if nano-note screen is good for eyes 2010-08-10 05:32 wolfspraul: (--plot) i know. dick doens't like it because it's not "c++-ish" enough. but he doesn't have anything better either. so it'a just a patch to add. 2010-08-10 05:33 Necrosporus, 320x240 is not a good res for ebooks 2010-08-10 05:33 I read books from such a screen, it was good enough 2010-08-10 05:33 wolfspraul: (root .sch) the .pro name would be a strong hint. it's difficult to use different names for .pro and .sch 2010-08-10 05:33 additionally nanonte's led placement on the screen is not good for small text reading 2010-08-10 05:33 Only there is a problem, my PDA is almost dead 2010-08-10 05:34 wolfspraul: btw, i got my ursp2 out of customs yesterday :) didn't get to play with it yet, though 2010-08-10 05:36 Necrosporus: for wirless, it all depends on what chips we can find. if you can find something great for BT (or even wifi), that would help. there are the following issues o consider: 2010-08-10 05:37 wpwrak: [usrp] great! I saw the wpan commits, very curious what's going to happen next... :-) 2010-08-10 05:37 about the eeschema, well, we just need to settle on something 2010-08-10 05:38 we can say we assume thers is exactly 1 .pro file, and it has a RootSch= setting, and that will point to the schematics are are going to plot 2010-08-10 05:38 Necrosporus: 1) can we actually get it. some chips are only sold to large customers, who buy hundreds of thousand. there may also be an up-front fee to pay to license the use of the technology, that can be in the order of 1 million USD, perhaps more. for some wireless technologies. 2010-08-10 05:38 for plotting I like the --plot, although there are many options in the dialogs, svg, etc. so maybe a more general way to script the UI would be good 2010-08-10 05:39 but in the end I don't want to talk, I want to make something work on the server now, because we have active projects and automatically generated schematics could help quite a bit 2010-08-10 05:39 finally - how do we build the kicad binary for the server? if upstream is slow in accepting stuff, and maybe later we want fped or other extensions from you as well, maybe we just build from your kicad sources then? 2010-08-10 05:40 what is the 'official' way to build "werner's latest kicad"? 2010-08-10 05:40 wpwrak, there is a simple solution: internal usb host 2010-08-10 05:40 Necrosporus: 2) is there publicly available documentation. we don't have that for everything (e.g., the CPU itself has a semi-closed data sheet), but it makes development a lot easier to have a data sheet we can actually share. if it's in the public, that's also about the only way to make sure you can still maintain your platform after the next company merger or policy change. 2010-08-10 05:41 Necrosporus: internal USB host is unsatisfactory, at least for me, for a number of reasons: 2010-08-10 05:41 wolfspraul: (kicad) the one documented in gta02-core should be fine 2010-08-10 05:42 1) plugging multiple pieces together is not going to work for end users. too much will go wrong, dongle lost, connector breaks, etc. costs are also too high. 2010-08-10 05:43 2) going via USB means up- and down-regulating to 5V, so the power consumption of this solution will never be competitive with an integrated solution, issues such as sleep/suspend modes, incoming calls/connections etc. make it even worse 2010-08-10 05:43 Necrosporus: 2b) there may be other concerns regarding openness, particularly if the technology is heavily proprietary or patent-encumbered in all other regards. in my opinion, that doesn't have to be a knock-out criterion, but it means that the effort put into this should be very limited. 2010-08-10 05:43 3) if we are licensing (buying) proprietary technology, such as the one neatly outsourced in your USB dongle, then I don't understand what the point of our project should be. Why not just use a really nice and integrated proprietary product right away? 2010-08-10 05:43 Necrosporus: 3) must fit into the system. mechanically, electronically, in kind of use. 2010-08-10 05:44 wolfspraul: for 1), a full-sizes A port would help at least with that tiny BT dongle. that's about the only sensible path to BT i can see at the moment. 2010-08-10 05:45 on my fishing expeditions into RF-land, i also keep on looking for any BT or WLAN bycatch, but so far, i haven't found anything that's usable and that comes at least with a basic data sheet :-( 2010-08-10 05:46 yes but full-size A is big, we looked at it it wouldn't fit, plus I am just not motivated to spend my time integrating proprietary technology. if someone else wants to do that they are more than welcome :-) 2010-08-10 05:46 Internal micro PCI 2010-08-10 05:46 wolfspraul: about 3), i think it's okay of we accept it as a temporary solution. we just should make sure a route to more openness exists. 2010-08-10 05:47 wolfspraul: i'm still unconvinced big A wouldn't fit :) 2010-08-10 05:47 I knew you would say that :-) 2010-08-10 05:47 ok, for the server 2010-08-10 05:47 we use the 02-core kicad then, and --plot 2010-08-10 05:47 keep things simple 2010-08-10 05:47 It's possible to sell NanoNote without modules 2010-08-10 05:47 so the only thing is how we find the root .sch 2010-08-10 05:48 is there normally only 1 .pro file per project? 2010-08-10 05:48 some people don't seem to use .pro files at all 2010-08-10 05:48 why that? 2010-08-10 05:50 wolfspraul: (wpan) the next steps: draw the remaining footprints (just a few qfn and solder pads missing), make the schematics of C8051F326 and AT86RF230 reference design (the latter with external balun, according to application note AVR2004), plus TI's antenna 2010-08-10 05:52 (wpan) make the layout. build it. test voltage levels. test oscillator frequency and stability. move USB stack over from IDBG (this wants a clean solution, but not sure if i'll get to making it now or if i'll just branch and jump) add USB to SPI processing, along with a few "high-level" operations due to limited response times allowed by the chip 2010-08-10 05:54 he, sounds great 2010-08-10 05:54 what about the .pro ? 2010-08-10 05:54 (wpan) read chip's ID registers from host. tune the crystal from host. crank up RF RX and scan the spectrum for signal strength (f/power plot, kinda spectrum analysis). compare with wifi activity and what the USRP sees. 2010-08-10 05:55 (wpan) finally, crank up the RF PA and establish communication. watch the spectrum with the usrp. then make an f/tx-pwr/link quality plot. play with distance and location. decide if the thing is of any use :-) 2010-08-10 05:56 (wpan) if yes, examine competitors to see any if their chips are better. e.g., ti have a similar one that's a bit smaller. almost all the ieee 802.15.4 chips have good documentation. 2010-08-10 05:57 wolfspraul: (.pro) not sure if you can get away without even having a .pro file. you can of course choose not to share it 2010-08-10 05:59 wpwrak: well you tell me, you know kicad much better. we can just use the RootSch= from the .pro file, and work that way 2010-08-10 05:59 wolfspraul: (.pro) generally only one .pro per project. e.g.,. gta02-core has multiple .pro files, but that's because it splits the kicad project into derived (by machine) projects. 2010-08-10 06:00 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Oops, forgot to commit wpan-atrf.pro http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/42e8ecb 2010-08-10 06:00 (hrhmm...) 2010-08-10 06:00 he :-) 2010-08-10 06:01 wolfspraul: i think you're fine if you just go for the .pro, yes. any simple project will have just one. complex ones like gta02-core will have their own extra build rules anyway. 2010-08-10 06:02 yes but that's the point, make a system that is flexible enough for kicad in general 2010-08-10 06:02 I can see the value of scripting on kicad files for several purposes, not just to create png/pdf schematics 2010-08-10 06:03 wolfspraul: run a project-provided shell script ;-) 2010-08-10 06:03 btw, the wpan-atrf.pro does not have the RootSch= 2010-08-10 06:03 just order the nanonote from IDA :) 2010-08-10 06:03 wolfspraul: scripting in kicad is still a long way. one obstacle that the guys in charge really like their gui. so "scripting" for them usually means "clipboard" 2010-08-10 06:03 painful 2010-08-10 06:04 hmm 2010-08-10 06:04 still not happy don't seem to find a nice and clean and quick solution for the schematics :-) 2010-08-10 06:04 either it's nothing (we have that already) or so general that it will take forever to implement (like running free scripts) 2010-08-10 06:04 wolfspraul: oh, rootsch was supposed a tag in .pro ? didn't even know :) you can simply go for the same name 2010-08-10 06:05 alcy: great! thanks!! 2010-08-10 06:06 I hope you will not regret later, and this will lead you to an interesting development path. It should! 2010-08-10 06:06 and the device should also be functional day-to-day today! 2010-08-10 06:06 hopefully 2010-08-10 06:07 i think you can just try the simple case and for n in *.pro; do sch="`echo "$n" | sed 's/\.pro$/.sch/`"; [ -r "$sch" ] && eeschema --plot "$sch"; done; even with gta02-core, 2010-08-10 06:07 should arrive in about 3 days. thanks, wolfspraul. lol, I hope so too. 2010-08-10 06:08 ok 2010-08-10 06:08 so for every .pro. you take the corresponding .sch and plot that 2010-08-10 06:08 you think that will normally be the right thing in a kicad tree 2010-08-10 06:08 alright! 2010-08-10 06:08 :-) 2010-08-10 06:09 wolfspraul: (wpan) if things work well on the hardware side, the software side needs a look. e.g., see how the zigbee and 6lowpan projects are doing. 2010-08-10 06:09 yes it all sounds SUPER INTERESTING 2010-08-10 06:10 somehow that sounds as if it is sarcastic to me 2010-08-10 06:11 wolfspraul: (.pro) i think such a strategy would even work on gta02-core. one gotcha: if your schematics are in a different directory from the root, that would be harder to find. but then, i'm not sure such a setup would be very common. just have a means to turn it all off if it doesn't work. 2010-08-10 06:12 bartbes:Â Â is the use of the word "super" a giveaway ? :) 2010-08-10 06:12 nice how the 2 of you have different conversations at the same time 2010-08-10 06:12 doesn't it make sense to.. you know, make sense? 2010-08-10 06:13 bartbes: there is admittedly the small problem that ieee 802.15.4 is a bit of a niche at the moment. also, it's advertized as "personal area", with correspondingly small distances. but we'll see about the latter. some of the chips already seem to be some 20+ dB better than the standard requires. 2010-08-10 06:14 so ehm 2010-08-10 06:14 what do you connect the 802.15.4 to? 2010-08-10 06:14 bartbes: not sarcastic 2010-08-10 06:15 bartbes: ZigBee, RF4CE (sp? now merged into ZigBee), 6loWPAN, anything new you come up with. it's mainly things like snesor networks at the moment, but i guess rf remotes and such will follow before too long. 2010-08-10 06:16 well, how do we get internet connectivity from it? 2010-08-10 06:16 I doubt it is somehow compatible with 802.11 2010-08-10 06:16 bartbes: 6lowpan should take care of that 2010-08-10 06:16 but it needs a separate router, doesn't it? 2010-08-10 06:17 bartbes: by the timne the ya comes out, the ipv4 address space should be exhausted already, so we'll be very trendy with an ipv6-centric solution ;-)) 2010-08-10 06:17 heh 2010-08-10 06:17 yes, need some kind of router 2010-08-10 06:18 (ipv6) you could of course tunnel ipv4 over it or maybe even tweak the protocol to support ipv4 natively. so in case ipv4 refuses to die, we can handle it :) 2010-08-10 06:18 die ipv4, die! 2010-08-10 06:19 [commit] Mirko Vogt: merge over changes from OpenWrt trunk: http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ff7b2bf 2010-08-10 06:24 6lowpan looks cool 2010-08-10 06:31 usbboot == u key and xbboot == shorting the resistor ? 2010-08-10 06:34 xbboot uses the same mechanism as usbboot 2010-08-10 07:06 larsc: hmm, so wolfgang's statement (on the list) that one may be better than the other doesn't make sense ? 2010-08-10 07:08 hello all 2010-08-10 07:08 i have a question 2010-08-10 07:09 wpwrak: what is the subject of his mail? 2010-08-10 07:09 I'm from Belarus and I want to buy one ben nano note 2010-08-10 07:10 wpwrak: found it 2010-08-10 07:11 I wrote to Yi@sharism.cc few month ago with same question 2010-08-10 07:11 and still have no answer 2010-08-10 07:12 wpwrak: with xbboot you can load a kernel or whatever executable and run it. with usbboot you can read/write nand and stuff 2010-08-10 07:12 so with xbboot you would boot a kernel and then use standard linux tools to do the flashing 2010-08-10 07:13 Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau(he is from Belarus too) said to me that there are some problem with standart delivery method 2010-08-10 07:15 How can I buy ben nano note? Anybody on this channel can help me with this problem? 2010-08-10 07:16 I very like idea of open hardware and whant to buy and use ben nano note and next versions of this device too 2010-08-10 07:17 Also I want to help my friends to buy it 2010-08-10 07:17 larsc: but they all use the usb boot in the CPU's ROM ? i.e., if the USB stack there has a problem, it would affect both in the same way ? 2010-08-10 07:17 wpwrak: I think that wolfgang was talking about to flash using linux initramfs tools would better than using usbboot 2010-08-10 07:18 n0153: you could look at this page: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Shipping_Notes 2010-08-10 07:19 rafa: he does sound as if he's saying that avoiding usbboot would also solve general usb problems. 2010-08-10 07:19 wpwrak: the rom is only used to load another binary to do the real work. 2010-08-10 07:19 wpwrak: not to me, I agree with rafa, of course this is only interpretation though 2010-08-10 07:19 we can ask him :D 2010-08-10 07:20 Yes, I know about this page, but this page refers to max_posedon, and he adviced me to write to Yi@sharism.cc 2010-08-10 07:21 I already do it, but there are no answer 2010-08-10 07:21 larsc: ah, so it's rom+usbboot or rom+xbboot+kernel. 2010-08-10 07:21 more or less 2010-08-10 07:21 yes 2010-08-10 07:21 larsc: okay, then it makes sense. thanks ! 2010-08-10 07:22 the problem is that the binary loaded by usbboot is not very fault tolerant. thats why we see so many problems with flashing 2010-08-10 07:22 n0153: maybe ping her again ? or mail wolfgang 2010-08-10 07:23 I ping her twice already 2010-08-10 07:23 How to mail Wolfgang? 2010-08-10 07:24 n0153: wolfgang@sharism.cc 2010-08-10 07:24 Thank you! I will try 2010-08-10 07:24 n0153: good luck ! importing things can be fun :) 2010-08-10 07:25 larsc: so usbboot and xbboot have a different codebase ? (sorry for the noob questions. still only getting my bearings.) 2010-08-10 07:27 wpwrak: yes 2010-08-10 07:27 xbboot is quite minimal 2010-08-10 07:30 i like the "let linux do it" approach better anyway. no use in replicating the same functionality over and over again. 2010-08-10 07:33 wolfspraul: btw, did that story of the ben lost in buenos aires have a happy ending ? 2010-08-10 07:33 /kick HtheB 2010-08-10 07:33 wpwrak: hah, not really. turns out the guy outsmarted our payment system and used a stolen credit card :-) 2010-08-10 07:34 meanwhile the Ben is back in safety in Hong Kong, of course we lost some money for shipping and all the attempts at delivering the ben 2010-08-10 07:34 could thing we didn't succeed 2010-08-10 07:34 unfortunately it's too much trouble to bring forward the case legally, so he gets away with this nonsense 2010-08-10 07:34 sometimes that's real life :-) 2010-08-10 07:34 in about 900 Bens sold we had 2 such cases now 2010-08-10 07:34 wolfspraul: wow. what a bastard :-( 2010-08-10 07:35 well yeah, real life I don't mind. we need to strengthen our systems and we do :-) 2010-08-10 07:36 only two in 900 doesn't sound so bad. 2010-08-10 07:36 i should ask around if anyone knows some scary folks. send them over to show him how far the arm of the chinese mafia reaches ;-) 2010-08-10 07:36 not that it makes it any less annoying, but... 2010-08-10 07:40 Textmode: we could have caught both of them, our mistake... 2010-08-10 07:43 Textmode: what's sad about it is that, because the shipment was stuck in customs and the guy couldn't be reached by phone or by mail, wolfgang traveled all the way from china to argentina to tell him personally. such a fine customer service wasted on a scoundrel. 2010-08-10 07:44 ouch... 2010-08-10 07:44 ha ha 2010-08-10 07:44 Werner exaggerates a little 2010-08-10 07:44 I traveled for the famous Casa Almesberger asado 2010-08-10 07:44 plus a nice soccer game 2010-08-10 07:44 but yeah, of course, I did follow up and try to give this guy good customer service 2010-08-10 07:44 as I would do with anyone who buys a Ben NanoNote :-) 2010-08-10 07:45 n0153: so there is hope ;-) 2010-08-10 07:45 huggles wolfspraul 2010-08-10 07:47 Textmode: Wolfgang exaggerates a little 2010-08-10 07:47 it was not a nice soccer game 2010-08-10 07:47 heh 2010-08-10 08:02 is there a way to run gdb on the nanonote? 2010-08-10 08:02 (or a gdb server, and then gdb on my comp) 2010-08-10 08:02 because "Segmentation fault" by itself doesn't provide me with too much information 2010-08-10 08:03 bartbes: could you install it? opkg install gdb? 2010-08-10 08:03 really? 2010-08-10 08:03 wow.. 2010-08-10 08:04 I think so.. at least I do 2010-08-10 08:05 so ehm, where do I get the package from 2010-08-10 08:05 I never knew how to get packages without compiling 2010-08-10 08:06 do not you have opkg?.. I mean, I was thinking that openwrt uses opkg as well. opkg udpate; opkg install gdb 2010-08-10 08:06 really? 2010-08-10 08:06 sets up internet access on his nn 2010-08-10 08:07 bartbes: I am not sure, I use jlime and I have gdb on repo to install with opkg. IIRC I read from other guys here using opkg in openwrt 2010-08-10 08:07 I first had to run update 2010-08-10 08:07 but then it worked 2010-08-10 08:09 hmm 2010-08-10 08:09 corrupted stacks 2010-08-10 08:09 nice 2010-08-10 08:13 ehm.. weird 2010-08-10 08:14 ah it doesn't support mips 2010-08-10 08:14 (remote debugging) 2010-08-10 08:18 builds the gdb in the toolchain 2010-08-10 08:23 come on toolchain.. build faster 2010-08-10 08:24 bartbes: is not gdb on repo useful? 2010-08-10 08:24 rafa: I need the gdb from the toolchain (the one that runs on the dev computer) 2010-08-10 08:24 or at least, if I want to use gdbserver 2010-08-10 08:25 because the standard gdb on my comp doesn't support mips 2010-08-10 08:25 bartbes: ?? 2010-08-10 08:25 basically 2010-08-10 08:25 I'm running the application on my nanonote 2010-08-10 08:25 bartbes: standard gdb?.. did you install gdb from opkg? 2010-08-10 08:25 but debugging on my computer 2010-08-10 08:25 bartbes: ah.. okey. it sounded me that you wanted to debug on nn 2010-08-10 08:26 I semi-do 2010-08-10 08:26 but the gdb on the nn was easy to set uo 2010-08-10 08:26 *up 2010-08-10 08:26 as you said, opkg took care of that 2010-08-10 08:26 now I'm setting up my comp to do remote debugging 2010-08-10 09:08 ehm 2010-08-10 09:08 is the nanonote little endian or big endian? 2010-08-10 09:09 oh 2010-08-10 09:09 mipsel --> little endian 2010-08-10 09:09 little endian 2010-08-10 09:09 I think that caused my segfault 2010-08-10 09:10 because a platform-dependant check (not directly related to the endianness btw) 2010-08-10 09:10 didn't include a header 2010-08-10 09:10 the endianness is simply because I'm now circumventing the check 2010-08-10 09:11 2010-08-10 09:13 I failed anyway 2010-08-10 09:13 is tired 2010-08-10 09:14 I'll do it tomorrow 2010-08-10 09:27 huggles bartbes 2010-08-10 09:28 :3 2010-08-10 09:28 just what I needed 2010-08-10 09:28 thanks Textmode 2010-08-10 10:58 [commit] Carlos Camargo: making some manufacturer recommendations http://qi-hw.com/p/nn-usb-fpga/8390015 2010-08-10 11:08 [commit] Mirko Vogt: use uClibc version 0.9.32pre by default http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/eab6c33 2010-08-10 11:08 [commit] Mirko Vogt: adjust config to latest revision of openwrt-xburst and feeds listed in feeds.conf.default http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/faee63f 2010-08-10 11:08 [commit] Mirko Vogt: config: preselect qt4-packages which require nptl-support, since uClibc 0.9.32 with nptl support got merged over, preselect package http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/73e7e7a 2010-08-10 11:08 [commit] Mirko Vogt: check for instead of , as CONFIG_UCLIBC_VERSION_*-booleans are only exposed, when http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d770d66 2010-08-10 11:13 wpwrak: hello:) 2010-08-10 11:13 wpwrak: i read you are planning do some stuff using SPI port 2010-08-10 11:13 are yuo using a native implementation of SPI in the ben, ifis truw, where is it? 2010-08-10 11:14 or planning bitbanging* 2010-08-10 11:14 (there is mail with this question too) 2010-08-10 11:27 kristianpaul: haven't really decided yet. probably bitbanging 2010-08-10 11:27 [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added a data sheet viewer. It improves upon the design used in gta02-core by http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6ec22bc 2010-08-10 11:28 there is no driver for the native spi yet anyway 2010-08-10 11:28 wpwrak: ok, but, btw how many gpio ports are you aware off? 2010-08-10 11:28 ahh 2010-08-10 11:28 ba dthing 2010-08-10 11:29 and i think the pins on which native spi is availabe are already used by something else 2010-08-10 11:29 kristianpaul: phuh, lots ... 2010-08-10 11:30 larsc: the keyboard, as usual :-( 2010-08-10 11:30 U1A: PD25/TX (TP75), 2010-08-10 11:30 GPB17 (NC), GPB18 (TP23), GPB30 (TP25), GPB27 (NC), GPB28 (NC) 2010-08-10 11:30 U1C: GPC8 (TP35), GPC9 (TP36), GPD15 (TP38) 2010-08-10 11:31 kristianpaul: the ones with a TP you can reach. the ones marked "NC" require special skills 2010-08-10 11:38 mail answered as well :) 2010-08-10 11:39 wich speacial skills? 2010-08-10 11:40 great :) 2010-08-10 11:40 read mail 2010-08-10 11:40 kristianpaul: dig into the epoxy, attach a thin gold wire to the CPU die, place it where it's convenient for you 2010-08-10 11:41 hmm 2010-08-10 11:43 kristianpaul: yeah, unfortunately not really feasible 2010-08-10 12:00 may I ask why ldd crashes on every dynamic lib? 2010-08-10 12:00 lol 2010-08-10 12:01 it's certainly less than useful 2010-08-10 12:01 not directly of interest, but worth a look nevertheless http://blog.2yb.org/ 2010-08-10 12:02 bartbes: perhaps it uses bash 2010-08-10 12:02 ... 2010-08-10 12:02 for dynamic libraries only? 2010-08-10 12:02 and you need to install bash 2010-08-10 12:02 that would be weird.. 2010-08-10 12:02 ah.. 2010-08-10 12:03 it works for others stuff? 2010-08-10 12:03 for executables, yes 2010-08-10 12:04 okey, then another thing is the problem 2010-08-10 12:10 no clues? 2010-08-10 12:15 hmm 2010-08-10 12:15 the toolchain doesn't even have ldd 2010-08-10 12:18 bartbes, did you mean ld? ldd is a shell script 2010-08-10 12:18 no, I mean ldd 2010-08-10 12:19 methril_work: and I'm pretty sure it's not a shell script 2010-08-10 12:20 $ file /usr/bin/ldd 2010-08-10 12:20 /usr/bin/ldd: Bourne-Again shell script text executable 2010-08-10 12:20 oh wow 2010-08-10 12:20 it wasn't there earlier, did I typo? 2010-08-10 12:20 hmm but still 2010-08-10 12:20 it fails when running it on dynamic libraries 2010-08-10 12:21 then is the linker 2010-08-10 12:21 bartbes: you have bash?.. just to know.. perhaps it is a link to something no bash? :P 2010-08-10 12:22 could you post the error? 2010-08-10 12:45