2010-08-07 00:00 <wpwrak> back
2010-08-07 00:01 <wpwrak> andres_calderon: sorry for the interruption. how do you like fped ? did it crash on you yet ? :)
2010-08-07 00:02 <andres_calderon> wpwrak very powerfull, is not trivial (ha sido un gusto adquirido)
2010-08-07 00:02 <wpwrak> andres_calderon: (autorouter) ah yes, i saw that page a while ago. looks a bit chaotic :) does it perform well in real life ?
2010-08-07 00:03 <wpwrak> andres_calderon: exactly :) looks very queer
2010-08-07 00:03 <andres_calderon> never done crash
2010-08-07 00:04 <wpwrak> kewl :)
2010-08-07 00:06 <andres_calderon> wpwrak no se si funciona el ruteo topologico, nunca lo he usado...  El código me pareció horrible. Pero me gustaría tener algo así en Kicad.
2010-08-07 00:08 <wpwrak> andres_calderon: there is one project that's doesn't look too bad. http://code.google.com/p/kicadocaml/
2010-08-07 00:09 <wpwrak> i think they also have a more conservative geometry. at least they did when i looked at it the last time, about a year ago
2010-08-07 00:10 <andres_calderon> wpwrak parece interesante, voy a probarlos
2010-08-07 00:11 <wpwrak> back then, the author said he wasn't sure if he'd continue. but it looks quite alive, which is a pleasant surprise :)
2010-08-07 00:12 <andres_calderon> wpwrak lo que ud. hizo con heekspython me pareció interesante. Tal vez algo así sea útil en Kicad.   http://code.google.com/p/heekspython/
2010-08-07 00:13 <wpwrak> well, you can always create kicad files from your scripts :) the power of plain text
2010-08-07 00:13 <wpwrak> i like heekspython. it has many flaws, but it's the right direction
2010-08-07 00:15 <wpwrak> for kicad, scripting is a little harder. i'm actually a bit surprised that people define components with fped using the scripting language - instead if the gui
2010-08-07 00:15 <wpwrak> of course, it's nice to see the two coexist so nicely :)
2010-08-07 00:16 <wpwrak> but i don't think there are many places besides footprint definition in kicad, where scripting would normally be important. perhaps if you need, say, an array of buttons or leds
2010-08-07 00:17 <andres_calderon> wpwrak el poder de kicad está en los scripts :)
2010-08-07 00:17 <wpwrak> i like the ability to extend kicad this way, yes. build around it.
2010-08-07 00:20 <wpwrak> andres_calderon: so, so far you're happy with kicad for Xue ?
2010-08-07 00:21 <andres_calderon> I do not like the GUI, but the potential is great.
2010-08-07 00:23 <andres_calderon> wpwrak poor clipboard support, copy/paste problems, lack of short-cuts, etc
2010-08-07 00:23 <wpwrak> andres_calderon: let me guess - do you like the block operations ?
2010-08-07 00:26 <andres_calderon> wpwrak no mucho... porque se quedan cortas al no permitir operaciones entre esquemáticos diferentes  que hacen parte de la misma jerarquia.
2010-08-07 00:27 <wpwrak> there are quite a few short-cuts. what's a bit annoying is that they don't work the same way everywhere. also, the dialogs for clarifying one's selection can be a bit superfluous. for example, if you're about to delete a track, it doesn't really matter which segment of that track you selected. yet you still have to choose.
2010-08-07 00:28 <wpwrak> (block) yeah, moving things around in the hierarchy is always a bit of a mystery. when i play with it long enough, it eventually works, but i'm never quite sure why it didn't work before :-(
2010-08-07 00:29 <wpwrak> (block) but what i meant was the shift-ctrl-mouse stuff. i find that quite ugly. do you know qucs circuit simulator ?
2010-08-07 00:30 <andres_calderon> wpwrak yes, there are usability issues ... but I find it tedious to try to fix them. I do not like GUI programming
2010-08-07 00:31 <andres_calderon> wpwrak No he usado el simulador de circuitos
2010-08-07 00:33 <andres_calderon> wpwrak I am very new to kicad,  you've seen recent progress in the development?
2010-08-07 00:41 <wpwrak> there is constant development in kicad. some good new stuff are the net classes. they let you do things like specifying that all ground traces should be at least 8 mil while the rest can be 6 mil. or to have a really wide clearance around that 220 V track ;-)
2010-08-07 00:42 <wpwrak> (qucs) it's pretty cool. a bit like spice, but in a way that actually makes you want to use it :)
2010-08-07 00:42 <kristianpaul> dont blame for this but there is a good autoruitng feature in kicad, may be like addon?
2010-08-07 00:43 <kristianpaul> hello wpwrak and andres :)
2010-08-07 00:43 <wpwrak> (qucs) the gui is very nice, in the "macdraw" style.
2010-08-07 00:43 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: there is an external router, http://www.freerouting.net/
2010-08-07 00:44 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: it's not an autorouter but a pretty good push router
2010-08-07 00:44 <wpwrak> the problem with it is that it's not free as in "Free Software", and you have to be online to use it
2010-08-07 00:45 <kristianpaul> ah
2010-08-07 00:45 <wpwrak> it also used some obscure java streaming extension that can sometimes be fun to install
2010-08-07 00:45 <kristianpaul> wow wolfspraul link about toporouter looks promising
2010-08-07 00:45 <kristianpaul> heh
2010-08-07 00:45 <kristianpaul> no java guy
2010-08-07 00:46 <kristianpaul> oh wait andres_calderon pointed :)
2010-08-07 00:47 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: are you bloging or documenting your experience with heekscad somewhere
2010-08-07 00:47 <kristianpaul> i do use heeks but not as you do :)
2010-08-07 00:47 <kristianpaul> like the script for the scanned parts
2010-08-07 00:47 <kristianpaul> nice :)
2010-08-07 00:50 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: (heekscad) no blog. but i try to solve problems where i find them. at least some of them :) right now (well, for the last week ... with many interruptions), i'm trying to fix selections sometimes crashing on amd64
2010-08-07 00:50 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: i would also like to improve the heekspython interface
2010-08-07 00:51 <kristianpaul> i used to crashing it happens always..
2010-08-07 00:51 <kristianpaul> yup heekspython looks promosing, but jsu few samples on wxpython like gui
2010-08-07 00:51 <kristianpaul> promising*
2010-08-07 00:52 <kristianpaul> wpwrak: i'm curios what are you usings heeks for?
2010-08-07 00:52 <kristianpaul> i just did some basic cases and things for fun
2010-08-07 00:53 <kristianpaul> but it is really easy to use i think more experienced people on cad ca really take advantage of ir
2010-08-07 00:53 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: right now, only for the counterweight
2010-08-07 00:53 <kristianpaul> no cad guy :P
2010-08-07 00:54 <wpwrak> a lot of features are missing on the cad side. it's quite powerful on cam, although severely underdocumented and many things are fragile.
2010-08-07 00:54 <kristianpaul> btw well i have two floss 3D printers nothing sooo accurate but if you need print something in low resolution i think i can help, i will like :)
2010-08-07 00:54 <kristianpaul> yes :(
2010-08-07 00:55 <kristianpaul> even more if is related with the nanonote :)
2010-08-07 00:55 <kristianpaul> or ther copyleft projetcts
2010-08-07 00:56 <wpwrak> ;-) i should add an extruder to my mill. then could be cool and 3d print too ;-)
2010-08-07 00:57 <kristianpaul> oh nice
2010-08-07 00:57 <kristianpaul> ah you use heeks cnc i guess ;)
2010-08-07 00:57 <kristianpaul> i wonder thats what most people use
2010-08-07 00:58 <wpwrak> (heekscnc) yup :) see http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-counterweight/source/tree/master/README
2010-08-07 00:58 <wpwrak> hmm, i guess i shold mention that this is for my local setup :)
2010-08-07 00:58 <kristianpaul> well i need bed, nice to meet you, hope you still hanging up here
2010-08-07 00:58 <kristianpaul> ohhh
2010-08-07 00:59 <kristianpaul> oh
2010-08-07 00:59 <kristianpaul> :D
2010-08-07 00:59 <wpwrak> (the "workflow" section. the rest is general)
2010-08-07 00:59 <wpwrak> (hang out) yeah, pretty much all the time :)
2010-08-07 01:00 <kristianpaul> ah i dint notice :p
2010-08-07 01:00 <kristianpaul> gn8 then !
2010-08-07 01:00 <wpwrak> tuxbrain_zzz: the SIE logo looks a bit like a compact 2.4 GHz antenna :)
2010-08-07 01:01 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: sweet dreams ! :)
2010-08-07 01:06 <andres_calderon> wpwrak nite, ha sido agradable hablar contigo.
2010-08-07 01:07 <wpwrak> andres_calderon: nice to have you here ! :) see you !
2010-08-07 01:08 <kristianpaul> andres_calderon: youl hang arond more often
2010-08-07 01:09 <kristianpaul> s/youl/should
2010-08-07 01:09 <kristianpaul> s/arond/around
2010-08-07 01:09 <kristianpaul> damm i need sleep
2010-08-07 01:09 <kristianpaul> but
2010-08-07 01:09 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: or caffeine :)
2010-08-07 01:09 <andres_calderon> of course, CY
2010-08-07 01:09 <kristianpaul> andres_calderon: di you got this toporouter working?
2010-08-07 01:09 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: yes we are attacking the RF problem from _ALL_ angles now
2010-08-07 01:10 <wolfspraul> even the designers were asked to help
2010-08-07 01:11 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: ;-)) meanwhile, i keep on looking at zigbee. i have a few atmel chips that i hope to put to good use. i love ti's documentation, though. incredibly good.
2010-08-07 01:12 <wpwrak> (atmel was just the first i found that looked like something i could expect to make work)
2010-08-07 01:13 <kristianpaul> zzzZ
2010-08-07 01:13 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: btw, here are the regulations for you: http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/swra060
2010-08-07 01:13 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: some really nice paper on antennas http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/swra088
2010-08-07 01:15 <wolfspraul> do I have to read those regulations?
2010-08-07 01:16 <wolfspraul> given that I am in China, maybe I can read them a bit later...
2010-08-07 01:17 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: but the killer is this antenna selectio nguide: http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/swra161a
2010-08-07 01:18 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (regs) not sure. haven't read them myself yet. i hope there are no nasty surprises in there
2010-08-07 01:20 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (antenna selection) e.g., see table 3 in section 4, or section 4.1.2
2010-08-07 01:20 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: suckish situation, but good documentation of it
2010-08-07 01:23 <wolfspraul> well
2010-08-07 01:23 <wolfspraul> just my personal opinion on how TI works - TI is essentially a patent litigation shop
2010-08-07 01:24 <wolfspraul> they buy smaller companies with strong technology
2010-08-07 01:24 <wolfspraul> then they add their 'legal' / patent litigation services on top
2010-08-07 01:24 <wolfspraul> often times the actual technical innovation stops after the TI purchase
2010-08-07 01:25 <wolfspraul> TI just takes the cream from the top with their legal litigation power, suck out what was created technically before, but not fully monetized legally (in the western world)
2010-08-07 01:25 <wolfspraul> so that's the TI machine
2010-08-07 01:25 <wolfspraul> imho
2010-08-07 01:26 <wolfspraul> you can still buy 'ti' chips (mostly from acquired smaller companies anyway), but over time this stuff will get more and more patented
2010-08-07 01:26 <wolfspraul> no wonder they essentially 'gave up' China :-)
2010-08-07 01:27 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: there probably isn't much you can get that isn't patented in one way or another
2010-08-07 01:27 <wolfspraul> they just live their parasitic IP life in the western world as long as that's possible. nice for them that this social system for the legal profession was invented :-)
2010-08-07 01:27 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: the issue are the "enhancements" that bring you deeper in patent-land
2010-08-07 01:27 <wolfspraul> of course, patents are a tool to make money
2010-08-07 01:27 <trebuchet> don't buy ti
2010-08-07 01:27 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: (or at least try to lure you there)
2010-08-07 01:27 <trebuchet> boycott ti
2010-08-07 01:28 <trebuchet> i broke my TI after reading a /. story
2010-08-07 01:28 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: just remember, I've mentioned this before - my perspective is global on this, I try to be balanced. the patent system you are thinking about essentially only exists in the US and Europe.
2010-08-07 01:29 <wolfspraul> there is an entirely new patent system being started in China now, where Chinese companies are just patenting existing western stuff in China, he he
2010-08-07 01:29 <wolfspraul> the Chinese have learnt the dialectics of those words...
2010-08-07 01:29 <wolfspraul> the number of Chinese patent applications skyrockets, often more or less direct translations of Western patents
2010-08-07 01:29 <wolfspraul> hey - WHY NOT? :-)
2010-08-07 01:29 <wolfspraul> it's a big market here
2010-08-07 01:29 <wolfspraul> so I try to stay out of all this, I see it from a manufacturing perspective
2010-08-07 01:30 <wolfspraul> of course I will always prefer unpatented solutions
2010-08-07 01:30 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: beat them stupid westeners with their own weapons ;-)
2010-08-07 01:30 <wolfspraul> but the reality is that there are many taxes/customs fees/toll booths/patents/whatever humans have called them
2010-08-07 01:30 <wpwrak> i think it's important to distinguish between technology we actually care about and what's just an underlying commodity
2010-08-07 01:31 <wolfspraul> if I would insist that between me (the manufacturer) and the end customer, there is absolutely no way of some 'financial hook' a 3rd party installs, then I can close my business right way
2010-08-07 01:31 <wpwrak> e.g., if the RF chip uses some patented fab process, do we really care ?
2010-08-07 01:31 <wolfspraul> theoretically yes, practically no
2010-08-07 01:31 <wpwrak> exactly :)
2010-08-07 01:31 <wpwrak> (hook) yup. that's the stuff to stay clear of
2010-08-07 01:32 <wpwrak> free technology, with enough room to avoid the hooks
2010-08-07 01:32 <wolfspraul> I go reverse, from most aggressive enforcers back
2010-08-07 01:32 <wolfspraul> not theoretically finding every last instance of what I consider 'parasitic' hook
2010-08-07 01:32 <wolfspraul> so if we go at this reverse, from most aggressive enforcers backwards, mp3/sisvel is my #1
2010-08-07 01:33 <wolfspraul> then maybe the mpeg people
2010-08-07 01:33 <wolfspraul> after that I still need to see, open minded
2010-08-07 01:34 <trebuchet> What is the Ya NanoNote?
2010-08-07 01:34 <wpwrak> sounds like a good approach, at least for now
2010-08-07 01:34 <wolfspraul> trebuchet: when we started NanoNote, we envisioned a series of products, same form factor, with improving technology
2010-08-07 01:34 <wolfspraul> Ben NanoNote was first, and is shipping
2010-08-07 01:35 <wolfspraul> Ya NanoNote is the second generation
2010-08-07 01:35 <wolfspraul> basicall the hardware and software hacking that is currently going on around Ben NanoNote will eventually lead to Ya
2010-08-07 01:35 <wolfspraul> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ya_NanoNote_Specs
2010-08-07 01:35 <trebuchet> So should I hold on to this 1200 USD for a bit
2010-08-07 01:36 <wolfspraul> for 1200 USD please buy 12 Ben NanoNotes
2010-08-07 01:36 <trebuchet> I want to throw money at Qi for it to stay alive
2010-08-07 01:36 <trebuchet> Is it profitable at 99USd
2010-08-07 01:36 <trebuchet> or should I donate
2010-08-07 01:37 <wolfspraul> puh. if you are serious, there are many good things you can do with 1200 USD.
2010-08-07 01:37 <kyak> yeah.. like 11 Bens and a lot of beer
2010-08-07 01:38 <trebuchet> Hey the guys at lavabit didn't 'puh' me when I spent some cash at their small shop
2010-08-07 01:38 <trebuchet> :(
2010-08-07 01:38 <wpwrak> kyak: 1-2 bens and LOTS of beer :)
2010-08-07 01:40 <wpwrak> rivers of beer, gently meandering through the green landscape, towards you ... :)
2010-08-07 01:40 <wolfspraul> trebuchet: and now?
2010-08-07 01:40 <trebuchet> Dammit, some guy is telling me Qi wants to sell all their v1 nanonote stockpiles then bail because there isn't enough money to go into the next, apparently an email on 4chan :|
2010-08-07 01:40 <trebuchet> ridiculous
2010-08-07 01:40 <kyak> wpwrak: it's morning here, don't tempt me into beer, or i might waste my day :)
2010-08-07 01:41 <trebuchet> wpwrak: beer is nice but nah
2010-08-07 01:41 <wolfspraul> trebuchet: what can we do for you now?
2010-08-07 01:41 <trebuchet> wolfspraul: Thank you for the wiki link
2010-08-07 01:42 <trebuchet> wolfspraul: Ah, is this a developer's channel? Sorry, I was thinking it was semi-casual and user oriented too :\
2010-08-07 01:43 <wolfspraul> feel like at home :-)
2010-08-07 01:44 <trebuchet> wolfspraul: You're kind of intimidating :<
2010-08-07 01:46 <wolfspraul> aha :-)
2010-08-07 01:46 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: reading the antenna PDF a bit, interesting indeed
2010-08-07 01:47 <wolfspraul> the reference PCB antennas are all for 868/915, not 433
2010-08-07 01:48 <wolfspraul> the village telco people also just had a blog post about some of their antenna work: http://www.villagetelco.org/2010/08/v1-3-antenna-testing/
2010-08-07 02:26 <wolfspraul> trebuchet: I have an idea for you - for your 1200 USD you can finance the ticket for kristianpaul to visit 27c3 in Berlin this year (he's from Bogota/Colombia, so it's quite a long trip, if he gets a visa at all)
2010-08-07 02:26 <wolfspraul> I could probably arrange a place to stay with a friend in Berlin, so accomodation should be covered
2010-08-07 02:27 <trebuchet> wolfspraul: I was reading mailing lists, aren't there multiple developers in colombia
2010-08-07 02:27 <wolfspraul> yes, correct, quite a few
2010-08-07 02:27 <trebuchet> well wolfspraul, i was talking with some other and they were thinking of arranging a group buy
2010-08-07 02:27 <trebuchet> one of them just got his BS in electrical engineering
2010-08-07 02:28 <trebuchet> wolfspraul: Is that just accidental? Certain places seem to attract certain tech people, there seem to be a lot of FSF sanctioned gnu+linux distributions that have started in latin america
2010-08-07 02:31 <wolfspraul> do you have a NanoNote?////////
2010-08-07 02:31 <wolfspraul> (sorry the '/' are from my crazy kbd driver...)
2010-08-07 02:35 <trebuchet> wolfspraul: Not yet. Too much on my mind(major munitions shipment). I will though.
2010-08-07 02:35 <trebuchet> Ah, have there been any talks about 'auditing'(in whatever form) the hardware in Qi projects... for possible backdoors?
2010-08-07 02:37 <wolfspraul> no but I think backdoor-free will become important for us later
2010-08-07 04:09 <sdschulze> tuxbrain_zzz: I see. :(((
2010-08-07 04:12 <sdschulze> The pricing policy of the devboard is strange.
2010-08-07 04:15 <kyak> what's the price of devboard?
2010-08-07 04:15 <sdschulze> $199
2010-08-07 04:16 <sdschulze> You pay $100 extra for having a USB host and 32 MB more RAM -- but having no keyboard and no screen.
2010-08-07 04:16 <sdschulze> and no case
2010-08-07 04:17 <zear> i guess that's the production costs for smaller batch
2010-08-07 04:22 <sdschulze> Might be, though $199 looks extremely rounded.
2010-08-07 04:24 <sdschulze> And it certainly doesn't attract developers.
2010-08-07 04:30 <sdschulze> What I want to do is:
2010-08-07 04:30 <sdschulze> I will be moving to a student apartment quite soon and I will take my computer with me.
2010-08-07 04:31 <sdschulze> At home, I want to leave a machine that doesn't cost too much and doesn't draw too much power but can do some network services.
2010-08-07 04:31 <sdschulze> and is more powerful than a WRT54G
2010-08-07 04:35 <sdschulze> A NanoNote would be ideal -- if it had network.
2010-08-07 04:35 <sdschulze> (No, don't tell me to buy an SD NIC)
2010-08-07 04:38 <sdschulze> (at least not if it's WiFi)
2010-08-07 04:39 <zear> sdschulze, you can plug it to a pc host and forward the internet to it (i know it's useless :D)
2010-08-07 04:40 <sdschulze> The point is that I want to eliminate the PC part.
2010-08-07 04:40 <sdschulze> because I'm taking my PC with me
2010-08-07 04:42 <Textmode> meep?
2010-08-07 04:43 <sdschulze> ?
2010-08-07 04:43 <Textmode> what are you talking about?
2010-08-07 04:44 <sdschulze> about getting a network connection on a NanoNote without a PC
2010-08-07 04:44 <Textmode> ah. yeah, that would be nice.
2010-08-07 04:44 <Textmode> isn't your main option an SDIO card?
2010-08-07 04:45 <sdschulze> Maybe the idea I came up with yesterday wasn't even so bad.
2010-08-07 04:45 <Textmode> (but since it has only one slot, that deprives you of a SDcard...
2010-08-07 04:45 <sdschulze> Textmode: AFAIK only for WiFi
2010-08-07 04:45 <sdschulze> I'm moderately skilled at USB stuff...
2010-08-07 04:45 <Textmode> problem is that while the NN has a USB port, it only operates in slave mode, doesn't it?
2010-08-07 04:46 <sdschulze> exactly
2010-08-07 04:46 <Textmode> which means that most ots usb equipment isn't usable.
2010-08-07 04:46 <Textmode> it should of USB-to-go, then we wouldn't be having any issues :/
2010-08-07 04:46 <Textmode> of been*
2010-08-07 04:47 <sdschulze> Taking a Teensy, a USB hub and a USB-Ethernet adapter should make it.
2010-08-07 04:47 <sdschulze> with like a week of full-time hacking
2010-08-07 04:47 <Textmode> hmm...
2010-08-07 04:48 <Textmode> whats the smallest usb hub you can find, and is it powered?
2010-08-07 04:50 <sdschulze> My primary issue would be: how do I get a Teensy in Europe?
2010-08-07 04:52 <sdschulze> $9.30 shipping, not tracked, not insured
2010-08-07 04:57 <Textmode> that sucks :/
2010-08-07 05:02 <sdschulze> only because two pins are not connected on the board
2010-08-07 05:03 <sdschulze> Otherwise, you could easily access the USB 1.1 hot on the SoC.
2010-08-07 05:05 <Textmode> ?
2010-08-07 05:05 <sdschulze> *host
2010-08-07 05:07 <Textmode> SoC?
2010-08-07 05:13 <sdschulze> the JZ
2010-08-07 05:23 <Textmode> ah
2010-08-07 06:06 <viric> larsc: is there a memory advantage in having a kernel without modules?
2010-08-07 06:07 <viric> larsc: I finally understood what patches to use to build the kernel I think :)
2010-08-07 06:30 <larsc> viric: good :)
2010-08-07 06:31 <viric> larsc: I did not understand the openwrt parts about the 'sound module'
2010-08-07 06:32 <viric> It looks like it builds .ko objects, but the kernel is built without module support
2010-08-07 06:32 <viric> (accordingt qi_lb60/config-2.6.35)
2010-08-07 06:32 <larsc> hu?
2010-08-07 06:32 <viric> ahm
2010-08-07 06:32 <viric> wait
2010-08-07 06:32 <viric> :)
2010-08-07 06:33 <viric> I just noticed qi_lb60/config-2.6.35 is not very complete
2010-08-07 06:35 <viric> I'm trying to understand how linux/xburst/config-2.6.35 and linux/xburst/qi_lb60/config-2.6.35 are combined, and if there are more options combined in
2010-08-07 06:35 <larsc> target/linux/generic/config-2.6.35 is the base config
2010-08-07 06:35 <viric> ahh
2010-08-07 06:36 <viric> and the others are catted ?
2010-08-07 06:36 <viric> so I can cat all of them into .config, and 'make oldconfig'?
2010-08-07 06:36 <viric> generic + xburst + qb_lb60 ?
2010-08-07 06:42 <viric> I'm trying that
2010-08-07 06:58 <viric> larsc: I cannot find the sound module...
2010-08-07 07:07 <viric> larsc: I just booted my own built kernel...
2010-08-07 07:07 <viric> larsc: and I cannot switch to virtual console 2 or 3, where the inittab spawns a getty
2010-08-07 07:07 <viric> gettty
2010-08-07 07:08 <viric> I have VT enabled, VT_CONSOLE too, FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE too, ...
2010-08-07 07:10 <viric> in fact even power off does not work
2010-08-07 07:14 <viric> the last message I see on the kernel console is "FPU emulator disabled, make sure your toolchain was compiled with software floating point support (soft-float)"
2010-08-07 09:29 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: i'm in Buga\Colombia btw :)
2010-08-07 09:29 <kristianpaul> bogota wsa temporary just fot the cparty
2010-08-07 09:29 <kristianpaul> s/fot/for
2010-08-07 09:42 <wolfspraul> sure I know
2010-08-07 09:42 <wolfspraul> I just simplified for our donation friend, who I 100% certain think will never donate anything anyway :-)
2010-08-07 09:42 <wolfspraul> (is he still here, forgot the nick - if so I'm sure I will get another earful... :-))
2010-08-07 09:43 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: I was just thinking what I would do if someone really wanted to donate 1200 USD
2010-08-07 09:43 <wolfspraul> buying NanoNotes is wasteful
2010-08-07 09:43 <wolfspraul> giving away hardware is also dangerous, I really don't believe in it, whether NanoNotes, or Milkymist, or what not
2010-08-07 09:43 <wolfspraul> so the best would be your trip to Berlin! :-)
2010-08-07 09:44 <wolfspraul> actually I'm curious - are you confident you would get a visa?
2010-08-07 09:44 <wolfspraul> I know this drama from Nelson, I thought should be no problem but I was proven wrong. He couldn't even get a transit visa to fly via Paris!
2010-08-07 09:44 <wolfspraul> crazy...
2010-08-07 09:44 <kristianpaul> hmm i can try on qemu isnt?
2010-08-07 09:44 <kristianpaul> ops
2010-08-07 09:45 <wolfspraul> two channels :-)
2010-08-07 09:46 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: dont known yet i'll ask a friend (he know nelso i think) who got visa and wen to germnay, so he can tell me more what to expect and to to void problems
2010-08-07 09:46 <kristianpaul> s/wen/went
2010-08-07 09:48 <wolfspraul> I think 27c3 is not realistic
2010-08-07 09:48 <wolfspraul> don't know who can cover all the costs...
2010-08-07 09:49 <wolfspraul> maybe next year when we are all rich :-)
2010-08-07 09:50 <kristianpaul> all try my self yeah, plans a next year is better more time :)
2010-08-07 09:50 <kristianpaul> at least if i got visa is okay for future use :)
2010-08-07 09:50 <kristianpaul> ***if**
2010-08-07 09:52 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: any way thanks for help :) you are really supportive
2010-08-07 09:57 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: you have to be careful with the visa thing
2010-08-07 09:57 <wolfspraul> I learned a lot working with Nelson on this
2010-08-07 09:57 <wolfspraul> in Colombia you have to present your passport _HISTORY_, i.e. you current passport as well as your older (expired) passports
2010-08-07 09:58 <wolfspraul> they can trace them back because the new one will list the serial number of the prior one
2010-08-07 09:58 <wolfspraul> and now - the icing on the cake - if you have a denied visa in any of your history, chances are very high you will also get trouble with new visas
2010-08-07 09:58 <wolfspraul> that means - you should only apply if you are relatively certain you will pass
2010-08-07 09:58 <wolfspraul> if not, you get a nice denial stamp in your passport, and thanks to this 'chaining' system you cannot really escape that anymore
2010-08-07 09:59 <wolfspraul> if you don't show up with some of your old passports, of course your visa might get denied right there already
2010-08-07 09:59 <wolfspraul> we have to change a lot of things I'm afraid, sometimes I feel this copyleft hardware thing is only the first mission :-)
2010-08-07 10:00 <wolfspraul> so - don't apply just for fun. a visa denial can be quite bad in Colombia.
2010-08-07 10:00 <wolfspraul> talk to Nelson or others who have more experience
2010-08-07 10:01 <kristianpaul> ah i'm stucked i dont have old passports to support visa thing
2010-08-07 10:01 <kristianpaul> ok i will
2010-08-07 10:01 <kristianpaul> damm i tought it was hard but no so problematic :(
2010-08-07 10:02 <kristianpaul> :(
2010-08-07 10:03 <wolfspraul> you are young, maybe the passports when you were still a child (!) are exempt
2010-08-07 10:03 <wolfspraul> who knows I am not making these rules
2010-08-07 10:03 <wolfspraul> I just went through a painful experience inviting Nelson to Taiwan
2010-08-07 10:03 <wolfspraul> in the end we made it but I learned my lesson and it didn't quite go the way I thought it should go
2010-08-07 10:03 <wolfspraul> angry letters on my end of course didn't help a thing either :-)
2010-08-07 10:03 <lekernel> kristianpaul, so you're trying to go to 27c3 eventually?
2010-08-07 10:03 <lekernel> btw they released the cfp wolfspraul :)
2010-08-07 10:04 <lekernel> and we have until october to submit
2010-08-07 10:04 <kristianpaul> lekernel: yeah that could be a good idea
2010-08-07 10:04 <wolfspraul> yes I saw it somewhere
2010-08-07 10:04 <kristianpaul> as i said i jsut discover that event last year
2010-08-07 10:04 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: it would be a great event for you indeed
2010-08-07 10:04 <wolfspraul> but need to be patient
2010-08-07 10:04 <kristianpaul> ok
2010-08-07 10:04 <wolfspraul> visa + finances, not so easy...
2010-08-07 10:05 <kristianpaul> indeed
2010-08-07 10:05 <lekernel> I've heard the CCC sometimes provides financial help
2010-08-07 10:05 <lekernel> but I'm not sure how and for what
2010-08-07 10:05 <zear> wow, that really sucks
2010-08-07 10:05 <lekernel> what?
2010-08-07 10:06 <zear> the visa trouble
2010-08-07 10:08 <lekernel> you have no idea about the amount of overhead in the world :)
2010-08-07 10:08 <zear> i do, i need to have a visa to usa
2010-08-07 10:08 <kristianpaul> where you are located?
2010-08-07 10:08 <zear> poland
2010-08-07 10:08 <zear> the middle of europe and an EU country
2010-08-07 10:08 <lekernel> poland isn't visa exempt?
2010-08-07 10:08 <zear> nope, it's not
2010-08-07 10:09 <lekernel> you might have just to fill in that "electronic travel authorization" crap
2010-08-07 10:09 <zear> nope
2010-08-07 10:09 <lekernel> huh, ok
2010-08-07 10:09 <zear> they are known to stop us on the airport in usa and deny the entry
2010-08-07 10:09 <zear> even if you have a visa
2010-08-07 10:09 <lekernel> I thought all EU countries were visa exempt
2010-08-07 10:10 <lekernel> maybe not the eastern ones...
2010-08-07 10:10 <zear> because they suspect us terrorists
2010-08-07 10:10 <zear> that's retarded, we're europeans
2010-08-07 10:10 <zear> lekernel, czech is, just not poland
2010-08-07 10:10 <zear> after helping usa for so many years in afghanistan and iraq, they still require us to have visas..
2010-08-07 10:11 <lekernel> yeah, and just before boarding they make you sign retarded declarations that you're not bringing a bomb in the plane ...
2010-08-07 10:11 <zear> yeah
2010-08-07 10:11 <wpwrak> lekernel: even austria isn
2010-08-07 10:11 <wpwrak> t entirely
2010-08-07 10:11 <zear> seen them
2010-08-07 10:12 <zear> well, at least we can get visas to north korea, unlike americans ;)
2010-08-07 10:13 <kristianpaul> need to find what countries me can get easy easilly :)
2010-08-07 10:14 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: http://www.circuitsathome.com/mcu/programming/arduino-usb-host-mini-first-prototype
2010-08-07 10:14 <kristianpaul> wolfspraul: may be that can be useefull to give more outputs to the Ben
2010-08-07 10:15 <kristianpaul> there are 1000~ out there so just usb client issue need to be solved some way
2010-08-07 10:15 <kristianpaul> **just a tought**
2010-08-07 10:16 <wpwrak> the ben would have plenty of io if it used it a bit more intelligently :)
2010-08-07 10:17 <wpwrak> pity that there's no chance for layout changes for the next ben production run. a few "interesting" ios would be easy to recover
2010-08-07 10:21 <kristianpaul> ah this modules is almost half nanonote is
2010-08-07 10:21 <kristianpaul> no good idea
2010-08-07 10:25 <kristianpaul> in price*
2010-08-07 11:12 <bartbes> is it known that gmu can simply decide to exit/crash when playing certain songs
2010-08-07 11:12 <bartbes> (presumably those with cover art)
2010-08-07 11:17 <bartbes> even when it's disabled in the conf
2010-08-07 11:17 <bartbes> :(
2010-08-07 12:11 <wejp> bartbes, no that should never happen
2010-08-07 12:12 <wejp> if it crashes, please send me the log output of gmu. gmu is pretty verbose on stdout which you can redirect to a file. this would help a lot
2010-08-07 12:46 <bartbes> wejp: I'll do that
2010-08-07 12:47 <wejp> thanks
2010-08-07 12:48 <bartbes> but I doubt it'll be of any use
2010-08-07 12:48 <bartbes> the part I normally see in the display is not too informative
2010-08-07 12:49 <bartbes> oh great..
2010-08-07 12:49 <bartbes> I must be doing something wrong
2010-08-07 12:50 <wejp> usually it helps finding the reason, or at least it gives a hint where to search. if it doesn't and it crashes on the same files again, you could send me one of those files
2010-08-07 12:50 <bartbes> it crashes on all files with embedded cover art I have
2010-08-07 12:50 <bartbes> somehow the redirection goes wrong..
2010-08-07 12:51 <bartbes> the file is empty
2010-08-07 12:51 <bartbes> and it's not on stderr, I know that for sure
2010-08-07 12:51 <wejp> that is really strange, but i guess i could fix that problem (if it actually exists) if you can give me such a file
2010-08-07 12:51 <bartbes> maybe it hasn't flushed yet?
2010-08-07 12:51 <wejp> maybe
2010-08-07 12:51 <bartbes> btw, I tried disabling cover art in /etc/gmu/gmu.nanonote.conf is that the right place?
2010-08-07 12:51 <bartbes> (because it failed)
2010-08-07 12:51 <wejp> you could run "sync" afterwards
2010-08-07 12:52 <bartbes> what's the newest version of gmu btw?
2010-08-07 12:52 <wejp> bartbes, on the nanonote, you have a user config in ~/.config/gmu which overwrites the global config in /etc/gmu
2010-08-07 12:52 <wejp> gmu 0.7.1 is the latest version
2010-08-07 12:53 <wejp> so if you run as root it is /root/.config/gmu/gmu.nanonote.conf
2010-08-07 12:53 <bartbes> ah
2010-08-07 12:53 <bartbes> I still run 0.7.0
2010-08-07 12:53 <bartbes> and disabling it in the user conf helped
2010-08-07 12:53 <bartbes> (I was looking for .gmu before)
2010-08-07 12:54 <bartbes> could it be something you fixed in 0.7.1?
2010-08-07 12:54 <wejp> the program info screen also tells you which config path gmu uses
2010-08-07 12:54 <wejp> so to be sure, check that
2010-08-07 12:54 <wejp> always use the latest version and try to reproduce it with that one, i always fix bug if people report them
2010-08-07 12:54 <bartbes> oh I found it in .local and it worked
2010-08-07 12:55 <bartbes> right, is there a package available somewhere (you just happen to catch me on windows..)
2010-08-07 12:55 <wejp> i don't remember a bug causing a crash with embedded cover artwork though, worked fine for most people
2010-08-07 12:55 <wejp> yes, as always, there is a package on my website
2010-08-07 12:55 <wejp> http://wejp.k.vu/
2010-08-07 12:55 <bartbes> well this is the song: http://8bc.org/items/music/Henry%20Homesweet%20%20-%20TOASTER.mp3
2010-08-07 12:55 <wejp> http://wejp.k.vu/projects/gmu
2010-08-07 12:55 <wejp> ok, thanks
2010-08-07 12:59 <bartbes> still crashes 0.7.1
2010-08-07 13:01 <wejp> ok, i'll test with that files myself
2010-08-07 13:01 <bartbes> (that is just an example btw, it fails to play about half of the music I put on it)
2010-08-07 13:01 <wejp> oO
2010-08-07 13:01 <wejp> that is really strange
2010-08-07 13:01 <bartbes> yes, it's that bad
2010-08-07 13:01 <bartbes> at least I know how to disable it
2010-08-07 13:02 <wejp> never heard such a thing from anyone else
2010-08-07 13:02 <bartbes> maybe other people have less cover art ;)
2010-08-07 13:02 <wejp> maybe, but i also have files with cover art that don't cause a crash
2010-08-07 13:03 <bartbes> true
2010-08-07 13:03 <wejp> but i'll try to figure out what's going on there
2010-08-07 13:03 <bartbes> maybe it's related to cover art resolution?
2010-08-07 13:03 <wejp> gmu should just refuse to load cover images above a certain resolution
2010-08-07 13:03 <bartbes> I noticed in all crashes where I bothered to read the resolution was higher than ben's screen resolution
2010-08-07 13:04 <wejp> that shouldn't cause a problem, gmu scales the images anyway
2010-08-07 13:04 <bartbes> okay
2010-08-07 13:04 <wejp> but the limited memory of the ben is an issue, so gmu refuses to load large images to not run out of memory
2010-08-07 13:04 <wejp> at least it should
2010-08-07 13:04 <bartbes> right
2010-08-07 13:05 <wejp> hm, your file works fine here and gmu even loads the cover image just fine :O
2010-08-07 13:05 <bartbes> :O
2010-08-07 13:05 <wejp> it is 450x421 pixels in size
2010-08-07 13:05 <bartbes> copies the file to an alternate location
2010-08-07 13:05 <wejp> a slice of toast ;)
2010-08-07 13:06 <bartbes> indeed it is :P
2010-08-07 13:06 <wejp> hehe
2010-08-07 13:07 <bartbes> can't get it to load here
2010-08-07 13:07 <bartbes> can I check for unmet dependencies?
2010-08-07 13:08 <wejp> hmm, you need libjpeg of course, as in your file the image is of type jpeg, but you should have that one
2010-08-07 13:08 <wejp> does gmu crash with a segfault?
2010-08-07 13:09 <bartbes> no
2010-08-07 13:09 <bartbes> it simply.. quits
2010-08-07 13:09 <bartbes> the end looks like this
2010-08-07 13:09 <bartbes> "Loading cover image of type image/jpeg form song meta data (tag)...
2010-08-07 13:09 <bartbes> "Loader thread.
2010-08-07 13:09 <bartbes> "Loading image from memory...
2010-08-07 13:10 <bartbes> "image dimensions: 450 x 421
2010-08-07 13:10 <bartbes> "fileplayer: UNPAUSE AUDIO!"
2010-08-07 13:10 <bartbes> (the others are prefixed by coverimg:)
2010-08-07 13:10 <viric> uh. I don't know what to do with the uboot nand part:
2010-08-07 13:10 <viric>  Checking 454656 bytes... Comparing 454656 bytes - FAIL at off 245, wrote 0x0, read 0x20
2010-08-07 13:10 <wejp> hm, looks fine so far
2010-08-07 13:10 <wejp> really strange :|
2010-08-07 13:10 <bartbes> tell me about it
2010-08-07 13:11 <bartbes> and as far as I can tell I'm not doing anything strange
2010-08-07 13:11 <wejp> and the "fileplayer: UNPAUSE AUDIO!" is the last one?
2010-08-07 13:11 <bartbes> yes
2010-08-07 13:11 <wejp> viric, did you try erasing the whole nand?
2010-08-07 13:11 <bartbes> on 0.7.0 it used to end with 1 stop and 2 pause iirc
2010-08-07 13:12 <viric> wejp: yes. I did not try that today, but when I tried, I got the same results
2010-08-07 13:12 <viric> 'whole nand' means, though, uboot+kernel, right?
2010-08-07 13:12 <viric> the command I see takes away 4096 blocks
2010-08-07 13:12 <wejp> viric, are you flashing through usb? i had similar problems on one computer but it worked fine on another
2010-08-07 13:13 <viric> wejp: yes, through usb
2010-08-07 13:13 <viric> wejp: it works fine for the kernel and the rootfs. But it fails on the uboot
2010-08-07 13:13 <wejp> viric, then try it on another computer if possible, and do not use a usb hub
2010-08-07 13:13 <viric> I don't use a usb hub.
2010-08-07 13:13 <viric> I can try another plug...
2010-08-07 13:13 <wejp> do you use a laptop computer? those sometimes use internal hubs
2010-08-07 13:13 <viric> yes, laptop
2010-08-07 13:14 <wejp> hm, do you have another computer around?
2010-08-07 13:14 <viric> Mm I can find one
2010-08-07 13:14 <viric> I'll install the tools there
2010-08-07 13:14 <wejp> bartbes, you did not accidentally enable gmu's shutdown timer? ;)
2010-08-07 13:15 <bartbes> how would I do that?
2010-08-07 13:15 <viric> wejp: am I right that the command to 'erase the whole nand' erases only kernel+uboot?
2010-08-07 13:15 <bartbes> and how would it time this perfectly?
2010-08-07 13:15 <bartbes> and, as I said, disabling cover art works
2010-08-07 13:15 <viric> wejp: here explained: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Xburst-tools
2010-08-07 13:16 <bartbes> wejp: and it's not too big of a problem, I'm probably not going to look at the cover art anyway, but this is a serious bug I'd say
2010-08-07 13:16 <viric> wejp: in another usb port it looks like succeeded
2010-08-07 13:16 <wejp> bartbes, with Alt+T
2010-08-07 13:16 <wejp> viric, good :)
2010-08-07 13:16 <viric> wejp: mmm I want an uboot command line
2010-08-07 13:17 <viric> wejp: I did not expect it to work because of the usb port change :)
2010-08-07 13:17 <wejp> bartbes, if there is a bug, it should be fixed, so i would like to figure out what's happening there
2010-08-07 13:17 <bartbes> same here
2010-08-07 13:17 <viric> wejp: I've built uboot, and it boots. I've built the kernel, and it boots, but it halts suddenly after apparently having loaded everything
2010-08-07 13:17 <viric> using 'strings' on uboot I see this kernel commandline:
2010-08-07 13:17 <wejp> viric, hehe, me neither, but as i had similar problems which i could solve by using a different computer, i though suggesting that could help :)
2010-08-07 13:18 <bartbes> and I tried it on both /data and /card (and yes, that is a memory card), so it's not the fs or fs type
2010-08-07 13:18 <viric> bootargs=mem=32M console=tty0 console=ttyS0,57600n8 ubi.mtd=2 rootfstype=ubifs root=ubi0:rootfs rw rootwait
2010-08-07 13:18 <wejp> yeah, would be really strange if it was the file system
2010-08-07 13:18 <bartbes> but worth checking anyway
2010-08-07 13:18 <bartbes> I guess it can't be a damaged file either, with so many files affected
2010-08-07 13:19 <wejp> as it does not crash but just seems to exit, it must be caused by something else.
2010-08-07 13:19 <viric> wejp: the last lines of the kernel: "VFS: Mounted root ubifs...  ;   Freeing unused kernel memory ... ; FPU emulator disabled, make sure...."
2010-08-07 13:19 <viric> and it even does not shut down after this.
2010-08-07 13:19 <bartbes> wejp: yeah, but what? buffer overflows? or is it voluntary?
2010-08-07 13:19 <wejp> if the shutdown timer is enabled, you see a number (the remaining minutes) in the upper left corner or "[S]"
2010-08-07 13:19 <wejp> it looks like it voluntarily exits
2010-08-07 13:20 <bartbes> it kind of does
2010-08-07 13:20 <wejp> still i don't know why
2010-08-07 13:20 <wejp> sorry, upper right corner that is
2010-08-07 13:20 <bartbes> oh right
2010-08-07 13:20 <bartbes> no that's not it
2010-08-07 13:20 <wejp> okay
2010-08-07 13:21 <bartbes> that would make its timing exceptionally great though
2010-08-07 13:21 <wejp> true
2010-08-07 13:21 <bartbes> loaded decoders
2010-08-07 13:21 <bartbes> well
2010-08-07 13:21 <bartbes> I can trim those I guess
2010-08-07 13:22 <bartbes> because some don't even have backends that work
2010-08-07 13:22 <bartbes> but it doesn't seem like that would cause this..
2010-08-07 13:22 <wejp> yes, you can simply delete the .so files you don't need
2010-08-07 13:23 <wejp> so gmu always exits with that file with cover artwork enabled and does not exit with cover artwork disabled?
2010-08-07 13:24 <bartbes> correct
2010-08-07 13:24 <wejp> ok, so at least i have an idea where to look
2010-08-07 13:25 <wejp> still this makes not much sense to me. the only thing i could imagine is that, despite the check for the image size, gmu still runs out of memory and exits because of that
2010-08-07 13:25 <wejp> the image size actually is well below the size limit, though
2010-08-07 13:25 <viric> larsc: the kernel boots and looks hanged... any advice? :)
2010-08-07 13:26 <bartbes> brb, reboot
2010-08-07 13:28 <larsc> viric: where does it hang?
2010-08-07 13:29 <viric> the last lines of the kernel: "VFS: Mounted root ubifs...  ;   Freeing unused kernel memory ... ; FPU emulator disabled, make sure...."
2010-08-07 13:29 <viric> it's 2.6.35
2010-08-07 13:32 <larsc> you have a openwrt rootfs and a custom build kernel?
2010-08-07 13:33 <viric> I have a debian rootfs
2010-08-07 13:33 <larsc> ok
2010-08-07 13:33 <viric> custom build kernel, yes.
2010-08-07 13:33 <viric> (not with openwrt)
2010-08-07 13:33 <viric> and custom built uboot
2010-08-07 13:33 <viric> (sorry :)
2010-08-07 13:33 <viric> But I took all the files and patches from openwrt
2010-08-07 13:34 <viric> it looks like the ubifs mounts fine
2010-08-07 13:34 <larsc> the openwrt patches change the default init to /etc/preinit
2010-08-07 13:34 <viric> Ahhh nice
2010-08-07 13:34 <viric> I better change it to /sbin/init?
2010-08-07 13:34 <viric> back
2010-08-07 13:34 <larsc> yes
2010-08-07 13:34 <viric> I'll take a look
2010-08-07 13:34 <viric> well
2010-08-07 13:34 <viric> if I could get an uboot cmdline... is it possible?
2010-08-07 13:35 <larsc> via serial
2010-08-07 13:35 <viric> only?
2010-08-07 13:35 <viric> I don't have a serial line..
2010-08-07 13:35 <viric> I can rebuild uboot too
2010-08-07 13:35 <viric> the kernel cmdline is there hardcoded
2010-08-07 13:35 <viric> I'll check.
2010-08-07 13:38 <bartbes> wejp: so, any ideas yet?
2010-08-07 13:50 <viric> yesterday I learnt how difficult it is to cross-build perl.
2010-08-07 13:50 <viric> very portable, they say!
2010-08-07 13:52 <kristoffer> perl is very nasty to crosscompile alright
2010-08-07 13:52 <viric> unfortunately, some people success doing that, and then they don't fix anything :)
2010-08-07 13:53 <viric> btw, am I right that I have to take the battery out to exit 'usbboot mode'?
2010-08-07 13:54 <wejp> bartbes, not yet, like i said, the only thing that seems possible is gmu running out of memory, so it quits to avoid a crash. if that is the case, and when it is, why there is too little memory available, i don't know yet
2010-08-07 13:55 <viric> larsc: humm I built without applying the preinit patch, and it still hangs there. Wouldn't it warn, if it was not finding init?
2010-08-07 13:56 <bartbes> wejp: is there a way to check that?
2010-08-07 13:56 <wejp> you could check how much memory you have left when running gmu
2010-08-07 13:57 <wejp> just run top on another terminal and it should at least give you an idea how much memory is available
2010-08-07 13:57 <wejp> if you use another terminal while running gmu, you might want to disable gmu's energy saving feature which turns of the display after a few seconds. you can do that through the config file
2010-08-07 14:00 <bartbes> will do
2010-08-07 14:02 <bartbes> what the hell? top looks horrible!
2010-08-07 14:03 <larsc> viric: yes. it should give you an error message
2010-08-07 14:04 <bartbes> wejp: the combination of top looking like this and gmu quitting before I even have a change of switching to top makes it impossible for me to test this
2010-08-07 14:06 <wejp> no, just run gmu, then switch to top, it is not neccessary to play a file that makes gmu quit
2010-08-07 14:06 <wejp> if it quits because of low memory, you must already be short on memory before that actually happens
2010-08-07 14:08 <bartbes> well ehm
2010-08-07 14:08 <bartbes> top kind of is unreadable
2010-08-07 14:08 <bartbes> I'll try looking at it via ssh
2010-08-07 14:11 <bartbes> wejp: ah, ssh makes it readable
2010-08-07 14:11 <wejp> good :)
2010-08-07 14:11 <bartbes> 31% mem use in standby
2010-08-07 14:11 <bartbes> (gmu alone)
2010-08-07 14:11 <wejp> ok, that's just fine, but the more interessting part is, how much memory is available
2010-08-07 14:12 <wejp> that is, free memory without buffers and caches
2010-08-07 14:12 <bartbes> Mem: 21004K used, 7476K free, 0K shrd, 604K buff, 4624K cached
2010-08-07 14:12 <wejp> ok, that looks okay
2010-08-07 14:12 <wejp> not like it is runnign out of memory any minute
2010-08-07 14:13 <wejp> must be something else then
2010-08-07 14:20 <bartbes> btw
2010-08-07 14:20 <bartbes> is it normal for it to have 4 processes (forks, I guess)
2010-08-07 14:21 <viric> larsc: that debian rootfs has /etc/preinit
2010-08-07 14:22 <viric> larsc: totally equal to /sbin/init
2010-08-07 14:23 <wejp> bartbes, those are not four processes, to pshow each thread as one process. so yes, that
2010-08-07 14:23 <wejp> is just fine
2010-08-07 14:23 <bartbes> top shows threads? seriously?
2010-08-07 14:24 <viric> I'll try adding cpu emulation
2010-08-07 14:24 <wejp> yes, gmu does not fork itself
2010-08-07 14:24 <wejp> only busybox's top seems to do that
2010-08-07 14:24 <bartbes> right busybox
2010-08-07 14:25 <bartbes> sometimes my best friends, at other times my worst enemy
2010-08-07 14:25 <wejp> hehe
2010-08-07 14:25 <bartbes> (mostly because they all differ from the 'full' version)
2010-08-07 14:25 <bartbes> just as I *hate* the netcat currently installed on my computer
2010-08-07 14:25 <wejp> yeah, but on the other hand busybox is a really great tool
2010-08-07 14:25 <bartbes> exactly
2010-08-07 14:26 <bartbes> it provides you with a lot of stuff at low cost
2010-08-07 14:26 <wejp> yep, one can get a complete linux system up and runnign that consists of only the kernel and busybox :)
2010-08-07 14:26 <bartbes> tomsrtbt came close to that
2010-08-07 14:26 <wejp> when trying to build a system from scratch without busybox, one needs lots of things
2010-08-07 14:29 <larsc> i think the reason why there are 4 process is because of how uclibc handles threads
2010-08-07 14:32 <wejp> ah yes, that's possible
2010-08-07 14:33 <viric> larsc: I added fpu emulation, and I could switch the virtual console
2010-08-07 14:33 <viric> larsc: but 'backspace' or 'enter' don't work
2010-08-07 14:34 <larsc> you need to load a keymap for the nanonote
2010-08-07 14:34 <viric> hm
2010-08-07 14:35 <viric> should the init scrips do that, or I can set the kernel with a proper default at build time?
2010-08-07 14:35 <larsc> either you use the patch from 2.6.34 that changes the keymap inside the kernel
2010-08-07 14:36 <larsc> or you load http://gitorious.org/mzcode/nanonotes/commit/f741532e6a81ffec5e4f0893fbc2227b84e4d50d from userspace
2010-08-07 14:36 <viric> ahm ok
2010-08-07 14:36 <viric> great! You are of a great help
2010-08-07 14:39 <viric> larsc: can you imagine what can be needing FPU emulation there?
2010-08-07 14:39 <viric> I think the kernel does not have any float. Right?
2010-08-07 14:40 <larsc> nope, but userspace i guess
2010-08-07 14:40 <larsc> openwrt userspace is compiled with softfloat
2010-08-07 14:40 <larsc> but debian not
2010-08-07 14:40 <viric> ahhh
2010-08-07 14:40 <viric> hence.
2010-08-07 14:41 <viric> strange that something related to the boot involves floats.
2010-08-07 14:41 <viric> that hard/soft float is not something written at ELF headers; it's simply different instructions in the text, right?
2010-08-07 14:42 <larsc> yes
2010-08-07 14:42 <viric> I hope I could get rid of that debian soon :)
2010-08-07 14:47 <viric> ARgh
2010-08-07 14:47 <viric> something weird happened
2010-08-07 14:47 <viric> Now when I put the battery back, it boots
2010-08-07 14:47 <viric> instead of waiting the power button push
2010-08-07 14:47 <viric> and additionally it hangs on 'starting kernel'
2010-08-07 14:53 <viric> larsc: hmmm the kernel 2.6.35 with the 2.6.34 patch does not boot at all
2010-08-07 15:01 <viric> larsc: hmm (4096-1024) means 1,5MiB available for the kernel?
2010-08-07 15:03 <larsc> there are 2MB availbale for the kernel
2010-08-07 15:03 <larsc> page 1024 to 2047
2010-08-07 15:04 <viric> ah ok
2010-08-07 15:04 <viric> Why the 'total nand erase' erases only 4096 pages? There are more in the nand
2010-08-07 15:04 <viric> larsc: the kernel I have has the size 1990998
2010-08-07 15:05 <viric> (the uImage)
2010-08-07 15:05 <viric> it should be fine I understand
2010-08-07 15:05 <larsc> yes
2010-08-07 15:05 <viric> somehow I broke the ubifs...
2010-08-07 15:06 <viric> ah, total nand erase destroys the first 2MiBs of the ubifs
2010-08-07 15:07 <viric> larsc: the 2.6.35 kernel with the keymap patch does not boot at all (I took the 500-* patch from 2.6.34 of the current openwrt trunk)
2010-08-07 15:09 <larsc> thats strange
2010-08-07 15:11 <viric>  Finish! (len 446464 start_page 0 page_num 109) Checking 446464 bytes... no check! End at Page: 109
2010-08-07 15:11 <viric> why it says 'no check'?
2010-08-07 15:12 <viric> grr. I have problems to boot 'anything' now.
2010-08-07 15:13 <qi-bot> [commit] David Kühling: switch to newer upstream snapshot with improved MIPS support. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/d50d5ae
2010-08-07 15:19 <viric> wejp: I'm back at the uboot flashing error! grrr. The port that worked, does not work anymore
2010-08-07 15:20 <wejp> oh
2010-08-07 15:22 <viric> always a failure at the same byte 2048
2010-08-07 15:23 <viric> I'm using xburst-tools on x86_64. It should not be a problem I gues
2010-08-07 15:27 <viric> wejp: using another computer I get a failure sooner
2010-08-07 15:27 <viric> FAIL at off 245, wrote 0x0, read 0x20
2010-08-07 15:27 <wejp> mh
2010-08-07 15:28 <viric> I'll try with an expensive usb cable
2010-08-07 15:28 <viric> ahm
2010-08-07 15:28 <viric>  a usb2 cable should work only better
2010-08-07 15:31 <viric> grr
2010-08-07 15:31 <viric> now it says:
2010-08-07 15:31 <viric>  Checking 454656 bytes... no check! End at Page: 111
2010-08-07 15:32 <viric> why it says 'no check'?!
2010-08-07 15:35 <viric> anyway, it worked now I think
2010-08-07 15:37 <viric> It will take me lots of days to learn this nanonote :)
2010-08-07 15:39 <viric> larsc: I tried again, and with the keymap patch it does not boot
2010-08-07 15:39 <viric> larsc: on uboot's Starting linux, the characters get moved some spaces from left to right, and there hangs
2010-08-07 15:40 <viric> no linux messages at all
2010-08-07 15:40 <viric> so I'll go for the userland tool on keymap
2010-08-07 16:15 <viric> larsc: grr It's my fault about the keymap I think
2010-08-07 16:16 <viric> larsc: patched bad. I forgot the xburst patches for 2.6.35 at all when I tried the keymap patch
2010-08-07 16:18 <viric> larsc: and in fact 2.6.35 already has the modifier keys patch in 2.6.35. I don't know why the backspace/enter keys did not work then
2010-08-07 16:30 <larsc> viric: no it has not
2010-08-07 16:31 <viric> larsc: I have a more concrete report. It's the right column of the matrix that does not work: p/backspace/enter/vol1/vol2/leftarrow/downarror
2010-08-07 16:31 <viric> larsc: https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/trunk/target/linux/xburst/patches-2.6.35/500-modifier-keys.patch
2010-08-07 16:31 <larsc> ok. thought you were refering to the qi-kernel tree
2010-08-07 16:31 <viric> Now I have the keymap you gave me loaded at the init scripts
2010-08-07 16:32 <viric> larsc: I did not go on with the qi-kernel tree because that lacked 'make uImage'
2010-08-07 16:32 <viric> I'm using mainline 2.6.35 + openwrt patches. That is not the best to do?
2010-08-07 16:35 <viric> I remember that one day you pointed me to use the openwrt-trunk kernel patches. Maybe I understood wrong
2010-08-07 16:36 <viric> I'll try to build a 2.6.34 from the openwrt trunk
2010-08-07 16:39 <viric> larsc: when I said leftarrow/downarrow I meant rightarrow/downarrow
2010-08-07 16:39 <viric> I suspect that ctrl doesn't work too.
2010-08-07 16:40 <larsc> hm
2010-08-07 16:40 <viric> larsc: I can ssh into the nanonote though.
2010-08-07 16:40 <larsc> could you dump /sys/kernel/debug/gpio ?
2010-08-07 16:42 <viric> Hm I don't have that path
2010-08-07 16:42 <viric> I have to mount the debugfs iirc
2010-08-07 16:42 <larsc> yes
2010-08-07 16:43 <larsc> mount -t debugfs none /sys/kernel/debug
2010-08-07 16:43 <viric> http://nano.pastebin.com/vZuSTqrB
2010-08-07 16:44 <viric> I have the 2.6.34 built. May I try it? I can put the 2.6.35 back if you want later
2010-08-07 16:46 <viric> in 2.6.34 the keyboard works fine.
2010-08-07 16:46 <viric> (well, it's 2.6.34.1)
2010-08-07 16:51 <larsc> hm, yes one gpio seems to be wrong
2010-08-07 16:51 <larsc> gpio-121 (matrix_kbd_row      ) in  hi irq-177 edge-both
2010-08-07 16:51 <larsc> this should be gpio-120
2010-08-07 16:51 <viric> ahh
2010-08-07 16:52 <viric> and now where will the fix go?   qi-hardware kernel 2.6.35? openwrt-trunk patches?
2010-08-07 16:52 <viric> both?
2010-08-07 16:53 <larsc> both
2010-08-07 16:54 <viric> great
2010-08-07 16:54 <viric> I want to test the sound of the nanonote. Is there anything I should know? I'd go with alsamixer and madplay
2010-08-07 16:55 <larsc> sound is pretty loud ;)
2010-08-07 16:55 <viric> the volume keys will work?
2010-08-07 16:55 <viric> :)
2010-08-07 16:55 <larsc> patch is commited in openwrt-trunk
2010-08-07 16:55 <viric> great!
2010-08-07 16:55 <larsc> i don't think so
2010-08-07 16:55 <viric> alsamixer will work?
2010-08-07 16:55 <viric> In the openwrt I tried, it did not
2010-08-07 16:55 <viric> And in the debian, there was no sound card support
2010-08-07 16:56 <larsc> alsamixer should work if the sound module are loaded
2010-08-07 16:56 <larsc> or sound support is builtin
2010-08-07 16:56 <viric> I put it on the kernel
2010-08-07 16:56 <viric> grrr I don't know in what debian package alsamixer is
2010-08-07 16:57 <viric> alsa-utils I hope
2010-08-07 16:57 <viric> oh, it looks like working!
2010-08-07 16:59 <larsc> great :)
2010-08-07 17:00 <viric> I'll put a mp3 file there now
2010-08-07 17:01 <viric> It plays!
2010-08-07 17:01 <viric> Although the minimum volume is quite loud, and the maximum louder.
2010-08-07 17:02 <viric> ah, with *muted* master it still sounds, although very (the opposite of loud)
2010-08-07 17:03 <viric> larsc: how accurate are the cpu usage counter? I get during madplay a 20% user, 80% idle, loadavg of 0.04
2010-08-07 17:07 <larsc> no idea
2010-08-07 17:08 <viric> is the loudness of the speaker a software issue?
2010-08-07 17:08 <viric> even headphones I cannot use :)
2010-08-07 17:08 <larsc> nope hw
2010-08-07 17:09 <larsc> but could be 'fixed' by using a softvol
2010-08-07 17:09 <viric> aha, I understand
2010-08-07 17:10 <viric> or an alsa plugin?
2010-08-07 17:10 <viric> or a proper alsa config, I don't know much
2010-08-07 17:10 <viric> for the program not to need that specially.
2010-08-07 17:10 <tuxbrain_away> larsc: on the testing software the volume has 7 from 0 to louder so I thing is just soft issue
2010-08-07 17:10 <tuxbrain_away> 7 levels
2010-08-07 17:11 <larsc> testing software?
2010-08-07 17:12 <tuxbrain_away> yes the software what nano comes before the OpenWrt
2010-08-07 17:12 <larsc> never seen it
2010-08-07 17:13 <larsc> but i can tell you for sure that the hw only has 4 volume levels ranging from loud to very loud
2010-08-07 17:13 <tuxbrain_away> it has a simple menu to test mic, screen, speakers, keyboard ....
2010-08-07 17:14 <tuxbrain> I don't know if wolfspraul has the source of it
2010-08-07 17:17 <viric> alsamixer shows 4 levels
2010-08-07 17:17 <viric> I'm not having luck writing the softvol .asoundrc
2010-08-07 17:17 <viric> tuxbrain: do you use it?
2010-08-07 17:19 <viric> larsc: oth, do you know where is the code for the SIMD instructions in mplayer?
2010-08-07 17:19 <larsc> no
2010-08-07 17:19 <viric> ok
2010-08-07 17:19 <viric> I read it was a big file in hexcode, because xburst did not want to publish the SIMD instructions
2010-08-07 17:25 <tuxbrain> virc: I have use it on my first nano, but then I reflash with OpenWrt and the next once also comes with Openwrt installed
2010-08-07 17:26 <tuxbrain> viric: GMU player can manage the volume to 0(silence) to 15(louder)
2010-08-07 17:27 <viric> ok
2010-08-07 17:27 <viric> Can you paste your .asoundrc somewhere?
2010-08-07 17:27 <viric> larsc: on 'ps aux' I get a sum of RSS of about 3 or 4MB
2010-08-07 17:28 <viric> larsc: but 'free' reports 12MB used. Is that by some kernel option I should not have used?
2010-08-07 17:28 <viric> larsc: or... how could I know the concerning kernel option?
2010-08-07 17:28 <viric> (12MB used not counting the buffers/cache)
2010-08-07 17:39 <viric> there are linux around on 8MB systems...
2010-08-07 17:42 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: Added problem statement and described more details of the process. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-counterweight/d497d67
2010-08-07 17:46 <viric> larsc: I was talking about this, FYI ftp://ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/01linux/05apps/mplayer/
2010-08-07 20:33 <kristianpaul> nah back to openwrt :)
2010-08-07 20:36 <tuxbrain> wejp: about lyrics on gmu, it has to be a separates files with same name of the of the song file in the directory, with txt extension?
2010-08-07 22:56 <wejp> tuxbrain, either that, or for mp3 files they can be embedded into the file, but this obviously does not apply for the nanonote
2010-08-07 22:59 <wolfspraul> wejp: sorry for the confused question - are you the original gmenu2x or gmu author?
2010-08-07 23:01 <kristianpaul> Hanvon N516 e-book reader
2010-08-07 23:01 <wolfspraul> I saw the new GMU icon from Mattes and looked around a bit where or how this would need to be committed. Which made me realize I have no idea where upstream is :-)
2010-08-07 23:01 <kristianpaul> why is this device in openwrt-xbusrt?
2010-08-07 23:01 <wolfspraul> the gmenu2x project on qi-hardware says 'temporary location for the Ben NanoNote', but there seems to be quite a bit of work going on there
2010-08-07 23:02 <wolfspraul> kristianpaul: it's another device with Ingenic's 4740 CPU (same die as in Ben NanoNote)
2010-08-07 23:02 <kristianpaul> ok
2010-08-07 23:02 <wolfspraul> at some point I tried to get more datasheets out of Hanvon, but failed
2010-08-07 23:02 <kristianpaul> btw i'm using openwrt in my nanonote as default
2010-08-07 23:02 <wolfspraul> it's also one of the main devices for www.openinkpot.org
2010-08-07 23:03 <kristianpaul> jlime for sd
2010-08-07 23:03 <kristianpaul> oh
2010-08-07 23:03 <kristianpaul> now i need find out how implement bit banging in kernel, seems well documented
2010-08-07 23:03 <kristianpaul> :)