2010-06-26 01:26 <arctanx> compiling gfortran locally... this is going to take a while...
2010-06-26 06:40 <bartbes> tuxbrain: no longer on the beach?
2010-06-26 09:46 <sdschulze> lekernel: Is MilkyMist downward-binary-compatible to LatticeMico32, BTW?
2010-06-26 09:51 <lekernel> same instruction set but different soc peripherals
2010-06-26 10:20 <mth> larsc: is the (M / N) in the PLL formula an integer or real division?
2010-06-26 10:21 <larsc> integer
2010-06-26 10:21 <mth> also in the hardware?
2010-06-26 10:21 <larsc> i would say
2010-06-26 10:37 <mth> from the description of how the hardware works, I think (Xin / N) * M would be closer to reality
2010-06-26 10:37 <mth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_synthesizer#Principle_of_PLL_synthesizers
2010-06-26 10:49 <larsc> hm
2010-06-26 10:50 <larsc> is the value in sysfs different from what you'd expect it to be?
2010-06-26 10:52 <larsc> in the aic section there are sample values of N, M and output frequency
2010-06-26 10:54 <larsc> you are right
2010-06-26 10:55 <larsc> i wonder why they put the extra brackets in their formula
2010-06-26 10:59 <larsc> hm i wished there was some kind of mmc testkit which would emulate a mmc card, but be able to produce errors at will. so one could build a testsuite for a mmc driver
2010-06-26 11:05 <qi-commits> Lars-Peter Clausen: jz4740: clocks: Fix pll frequency rate formula http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/b050ca1
2010-06-26 11:05 <qi-commits> Maarten ter Huurne: jz4740: clock: Fix value returned by clk_get_rate() for the "pll" clock. http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/eaec30a
2010-06-26 11:07 <bartbes> did you just do the same thing?
2010-06-26 11:11 <dptech> hello I'd like how create usb_boot because I've usb schema with Data (D-) Data (D+) and Ground (GND) with in nanoNote TXD (transmit data) RXD (receive data)...
2010-06-26 11:12 <larsc> bartbes: no
2010-06-26 11:20 <dptech> hello I'd like how create usb_boot because I've usb schema with Data (D-) Data (D+) and Ground (GND) with in nanoNote TXD (transmit data) RXD (receive data)...
2010-06-26 11:27 <dptech> Nobody ? Ok, I'm using RS232 serial male connector...
2010-06-26 11:37 <xiangfu> dptech: Hi , what you mean "create usbboot" ?
2010-06-26 11:44 <dptech> xiangfu: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Ben_nanonote_serial2.jpg
2010-06-26 11:45 <dptech> xiangfu: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/USB_BOOT_mode
2010-06-26 11:47 <xiangfu> dptech:  you need a rs232 -- TTL converter to get the serial output.
2010-06-26 11:48 <xiangfu> dptech: if you want boot to hardware-usbboot. just short the two usbboot pins then press the [RESET] hole.
2010-06-26 11:52 <rafa> larsc: I will do a pull of 2.6.34.. is there some issue to know ?
2010-06-26 11:53 <rafa> larsc: proper config for nn is in arch/mips/configs?
2010-06-26 11:55 <larsc> rafa: it should work, config is in arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig
2010-06-26 11:58 <rafa> larsc: great, thanks a lot
2010-06-26 11:58 <rafa> larsc: I will let you know how it goes
2010-06-26 11:59 <nebajoth> rofl
2010-06-26 11:59 <nebajoth> I'm compiling a mud server on my NN.
2010-06-26 12:01 <dptech> xiangfu: Well, i see! If I understand, I can boot in usb with this method
2010-06-26 12:06 <freespace> nebajoth: what distro/compiler?
2010-06-26 12:07 <nebajoth> debian/gcc
2010-06-26 12:07 <freespace> cool
2010-06-26 12:09 <nebajoth> I love having debian on here
2010-06-26 13:26 <rafa> larsc: short question: is arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig okey to use with MicroSD?. Have you tried?
2010-06-26 15:09 <rafa> larsc: arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig does not have SD set.. Does it work okey?.. I have had lot of problems with arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig before
2010-06-26 15:09 <rafa> larsc: that is why I am asking..
2010-06-26 15:10 <rafa> (work okey= if SD works okey with 2.6.34 and arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig config)
2010-06-26 15:35 <larsc> rafa?
2010-06-26 15:40 <rafa> yes man
2010-06-26 15:40 <rafa> me here..
2010-06-26 15:41 <rafa> larsc: I built.. because no output on screen I can not say much. It does not work for me now.. I will try to realize (some day :P) which is the problem..
2010-06-26 15:41 <rafa> larsc: black screen, booting from SD
2010-06-26 15:42 <rafa> larsc: so I am not sure if it mounted rootfs, or where it finishes
2010-06-26 16:05 <calamarz> keymouse working on my nn :)
2010-06-26 16:06 <calamarz> now I can play scummvm XD
2010-06-26 17:32 <rafa> HEY!.. we release a new v2 beta jlime version.. some braves? :)
2010-06-26 17:51 <wolfspraul> rafa: v2 already...!
2010-06-26 17:57 <rafa> wolfspraul: yes, pure beta but nice :)
2010-06-26 17:57 <rafa> wolfspraul: I sent an email, but it has not arrived yet it seems
2010-06-26 18:00 <rafa> wolfspraul: we still use our 2.6.34 kernel which has a few problems and it is a little outdated.. I have not been able to use current git kernel.. it does not boot well for us. I also have not had time to report properly the problem, if there is a problem, I do not know. larsc sais that all is okey, so surely it is my fault.. but well,
2010-06-26 18:01 <rafa> I am not sure what to do next.. for now I was working hard on userland side. I will wait a while to try again current git kernel
2010-06-26 18:02 <rafa> our 2.6.34 kernel= kernel from qi git, but with our own .config and outdated
2010-06-26 18:02 <rafa> lars said*
2010-06-26 18:15 <wolfspraul> rafa: you sent an email where? do the qi discussion or developer list?
2010-06-26 18:15 <wolfspraul> s/do/to/
2010-06-26 18:16 <rafa> wolfspraul: both
2010-06-26 18:16 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-26 18:20 <rafa> wolfspraul: anyway, the beta v2 is the same that you have watched in the youtube vide.. with X and matchbox GUI
2010-06-26 18:58 <wolfspraul> rafa: I looked at the server a little. Seems the mail traffic is so high now that spam checking is the bottleneck.
2010-06-26 18:58 <wolfspraul> so your mails were temporarily rejected for a while...
2010-06-26 18:58 <wolfspraul> unfortunately spamassassing needs so much memory I cannot easily increase the number of processes, need to look into it some more
2010-06-26 18:58 <wolfspraul> thanks for letting me know, should be faster!
2010-06-26 19:12 <urandom_> i had some nice idea today: placing some trackpoint style device next to the speaker and then next to it two buttons, which could be used as mouse buttons but also for making the nanonote a good gaming device (mainly for retro games i think), that would be awesome but dont know if doable
2010-06-26 19:17 <wolfspraul> he, yeah, good idea
2010-06-26 19:18 <wolfspraul> we have all sorts of things written up here: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ya_NanoNote_Specs
2010-06-26 19:19 <wolfspraul> see at the bottom "trackball like HTC Dream" etc.
2010-06-26 19:19 <wolfspraul> but realistically, it will not happen in Ya
2010-06-26 19:19 <wolfspraul> our resources are extremely limited, and we focus them pretty exclusively on reducing the price of the device
2010-06-26 19:20 <urandom_> yeah i know, we already talked about it :P
2010-06-26 19:23 <neil_> wolfspraul: do you know if Ya will have USB host?  at least we could use a USB mouse then
2010-06-26 19:24 <urandom_> my usb mouse is bigger than my nano that will be look funny ;)
2010-06-26 19:25 <rafa> wolfspraul: great.. I see the mail now ;)
2010-06-26 19:26 <urandom_> USB host has the highest priority neil_
2010-06-26 19:27 <neil_> urandom_: great.  I'd love to plug in my Wingman Extreme 3D.  that would look even funnier
2010-06-26 19:29 <urandom_> yeah usb host will be awesome! lots of new stuff to do with the ben
2010-06-26 19:31 <max_posedon> usb host 1.1 doesn't gives much opportunetes imho
2010-06-26 19:32 <neil_> max_posedon: should be good enough for a mouse and 802.11
2010-06-26 19:32 <wolfspraul> neil_: USB host is easy to add, and gives a lot of functionality from our free software perspective
2010-06-26 19:32 <wolfspraul> easy = cheap
2010-06-26 19:33 <neil_> wolfspraul: music to my ears
2010-06-26 19:33 <wolfspraul> so whenever those things come together - 1) cheap 2) makes a lot of sense for free software, then it's high on the list
2010-06-26 19:33 <mth> any chance of internal wifi support?
2010-06-26 19:33 <wolfspraul> gotta run, Nelson waiting downstairs, sorry...
2010-06-26 19:33 <max_posedon> neil_, yes, but... I'm not sure that it will give you much
2010-06-26 19:33 <wolfspraul> mth: integrated wifi probably not
2010-06-26 19:33 <wolfspraul> we'll see
2010-06-26 19:33 <max_posedon> e.g. I just want attach ben to freerunner
2010-06-26 19:33 <max_posedon> it could be killer pair)
2010-06-26 19:33 <wolfspraul> I'd rather add an RF solution that is open to the PHY layer
2010-06-26 19:34 <wolfspraul> even if that means in the first year nothing more than sending 'hello world' from one device to the next will work :-)
2010-06-26 19:34 <wolfspraul> bbl
2010-06-26 19:34 <mth> for a portable device, it's useful to be interoperable with all the existing access points ;)
2010-06-26 19:34 <urandom_> but the RF solutions that are open arent used by anyone else :(
2010-06-26 19:36 <urandom_> i am not against using stuff that nobody else is using if it is good technology but i wonder if this hoperf stuff makes any sense
2010-06-26 20:40 <wolfspraul> mth: sorry had to go offline
2010-06-26 20:41 <mth> no problem
2010-06-26 20:41 <wolfspraul> so about Wi-Fi, well at least me personally I will probably try to keep it outside of the Ya NanoNote
2010-06-26 20:41 <mth> I typed this just after you left:
2010-06-26 20:41 <wolfspraul> but we may be working on another product, wall computer, with integrated Wi-Fi
2010-06-26 20:41 <mth> <mth> for a portable device, it's useful to be interoperable with all the existing access points ;)
2010-06-26 20:41 <wolfspraul> don't know really, it all depends on a lot of technology and what works and what doesn't
2010-06-26 20:41 <wolfspraul> of course that is useful
2010-06-26 20:43 <wolfspraul> I'm just not satisfied running a large black box that does all the intersting things
2010-06-26 20:45 <mth> if the device is aimed at hardware hackers, that's a valid point
2010-06-26 20:46 <mth> if it's aimed at software hackers that just want an internet connection to access their repository, it's a different story
2010-06-26 20:47 <larsc> well, the goal of the qi-project is to inovate in the area of open hardware
2010-06-26 20:48 <wolfspraul> an RF stack is not software?
2010-06-26 20:48 <mth> I don't really know enough of all layers involved in WiFi
2010-06-26 20:49 <mth> for me personally, it would be sufficient if the device driver is open
2010-06-26 20:49 <wolfspraul> sure, you are not alone in saying that and it's understandable
2010-06-26 20:50 <wolfspraul> believe me, I'd say every other day or so someone looks at me with big eyes that try to tell me "are you stupid in not including Wi-Fi in this thing?"
2010-06-26 20:50 <mth> if I were a hardware hacker, I'd probably draw the boundaries differently :)
2010-06-26 20:51 <mth> but there is always a black box somewhere, at least in the foreseeable future
2010-06-26 20:51 <mth> for example, I don't have sources for the software in my cable modem
2010-06-26 20:51 <wolfspraul> ok, one by one
2010-06-26 20:51 <mth> but if I did, then I still wouldn't have access to my provider's routers etc
2010-06-26 20:51 <wolfspraul> I don't think a blackbox 'always' has to be there, especially not in the foreseeable future
2010-06-26 20:52 <wolfspraul> a lot of pieces are in place, they just need to be put together, which is what we are working on
2010-06-26 20:53 <wolfspraul> well, your provider's router is another thing, but for the devices you are using, there really is no need for black boxes, in a few years
2010-06-26 20:53 <mth> there is no technical need for black boxes, but even if we're moving to an open world (I hope so, but I'm not sure), the intertia will be huge
2010-06-26 20:54 <mth> *inertia
2010-06-26 20:54 <wolfspraul> he, I would agree on the inertia, but that's why you need to start early :-)
2010-06-26 20:59 <mth> a lot of people don't really understand why openness is needed
2010-06-26 21:00 <mth> for example, in the Netherlands voting machines are no longer allowed, but on the grounds that eavesdropping is possible, not because the votes are unverifiable
2010-06-26 21:00 <mth> to me, it seems rather pointless to vote in secret when you have no guarantee it will actually be counted
2010-06-26 21:01 <mth> so imo, they did the right thing for the wrong reason
2010-06-26 21:01 <mth> well, the less important right reason, because secrecy of voting is also important
2010-06-26 21:02 <urandom_> why is secrecy important?
2010-06-26 21:03 <mth> to avoid intimidation as a way of getting more votes
2010-06-26 21:06 <urandom_> nah dont think that would work, "vote for us or we beat the crap out of you" isnt an democrativ sysem anyway
2010-06-26 21:07 <mth> it happens in countries that are in name democraties though
2010-06-26 21:09 <urandom_> yeah but then it doesnt mather if there is secrecy or if you can vote anyway, doesnt change something
2010-06-26 21:10 <mth> I think it does make a difference: if a group tries to take power by force, it will be clear that they have done so, instead of them pointing to fraudulent elections as an excuse
2010-06-26 21:11 <urandom_> also we dont have any democratic countries in the world if you go by greece definition (but then voting for people hasnt to do anythink with democracy at all)
2010-06-26 21:13 <mth> anyway, my point is that it will be difficult to convince people that they need open hardware when they still trust Facebook with all details of their social life
2010-06-26 21:13 <urandom_> so yeah maybe they look better with fake votes i agree
2010-06-26 21:14 <urandom_> my point was just that there is something already wrong when you need secrecy
2010-06-26 21:15 <mth> in an ideal world you could vote openly indeed, but I don't see it happening very soon
2010-06-26 21:16 <urandom_> i dont really understand the web 2.0 stuff, whats so cool about it, i never use it
2010-06-26 21:16 <urandom_> "omg i am so importand i need my own webblog and shit"
2010-06-26 21:17 <mth> well, web 2.0 is a marketing term for web apps + sites build on user-generated content
2010-06-26 21:17 <mth> I do think web apps are useful
2010-06-26 21:17 <mth> and user generated content can be useful, but it all depends on the quality of that content
2010-06-26 21:17 <mth> something like github could be called web 2.0
2010-06-26 21:19 <mth> now everybody has the means to write their own newspaper, but very few people have both an interesting story to tell and the skills to tell it well
2010-06-26 21:20 <urandom_> well stuff like wikis, github and indypendant news are usefull and cool
2010-06-26 21:22 <urandom_> but there is so much shit now
2010-06-26 21:23 <urandom_> nobody knows how to use irc anymore
2010-06-26 23:38 <urandom_> booting jlime kernel from fat16 didnt work at all for me, tryed the whole day long, used ext2 instead and worked lol
2010-06-26 23:41 <arctanx> urandom_: it could be related to this recent commit to u-boot... http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-xburst/source/commit/ff43eecc8fd4179629712d83682707fed4ea37ba/
2010-06-26 23:41 <arctanx> as I think was pointed out by rafa on the list
2010-06-26 23:42 <arctanx> is slowly downloading the new userland now
2010-06-26 23:42 <urandom_> ah ok, so http://jlime.com/mw4/index.php/Installation_nanonote has to be updated
2010-06-26 23:43 <arctanx> the trick is to download their version of the u-boot
2010-06-26 23:43 <arctanx> my current speculation is that they have a slightly older build
2010-06-26 23:44 <urandom_> yeah i did not use theire u-boot cause i already had the newest
2010-06-26 23:44 <arctanx> that'd do it then
2010-06-26 23:45 <arctanx> there is still the screen corruption on debian boot bug, so expect more churn in this area in the coming weeks