2010-06-21 00:04 <neil_> Hello, I just got my NanoNote this morning and I'm well happy.  About the red LED on the right-hand side.  The manual says it's a power LED but it seems to indicate that it's charging instead.  Is that what it's doing?
2010-06-21 00:05 <wolfspraul> charging
2010-06-21 00:06 <neil_> so when it goes off even though it's still plugged in, it means it's fully charged?
2010-06-21 00:06 <urandom_> yeah
2010-06-21 00:06 <neil_> great. thanks
2010-06-21 00:09 <neil_> how can I tell roughly how much charge remains in the battery from the command line?
2010-06-21 00:22 <urandom_> neil_ cat /sys/class/power_supply/battery/voltage_now
2010-06-21 01:18 <rejon> yo
2010-06-21 02:47 <qi-commits> Xiangfu Liu: [usbboot] copy the jz4760.h file from u-boot, fix the jz4760 nand addr, cmd, data, port define http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/eb23820
2010-06-21 02:47 <qi-commits> Xiangfu Liu: this is a workaround. we have plan to update the libusb-0.1 http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/43d775b
2010-06-21 03:34 <tuxbrain> wolfgang: so you finally have flashed your the HK stock, any tips so I can do the same at little scale here?
2010-06-21 06:02 <kyak> wolfspraul: can i please be added to downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/ ? i would like to have a place at qi to conveniently store and update my ports :)
2010-06-21 06:09 <tuxbrain> kyak: you better put also put the Makefiles once verify it runs in http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/ so it can be directly integrated in next distro
2010-06-21 06:11 <kyak> tuxbrain: this is exactly what i needed, thanks!
2010-06-21 06:13 <kyak> can i commit anonymously there?
2010-06-21 06:14 <tuxbrain> nop, you have to register in the project application here http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/login/ and ask to one of the project admin to let you in
2010-06-21 06:16 <kyak> already registered.. ok
2010-06-21 06:17 <tuxbrain> ask mirko Vogt or wolfspraul to commit access :) I really want you in :P
2010-06-21 06:18 <kyak> ok, i guess i already asked wolfspraul for some kind of access :)
2010-06-21 06:28 <wolfspraul> kyak: can you email me a password of your choice? (wolfgang@sharism.cc)
2010-06-21 06:30 <wolfspraul> the downloads server has a DAV access where I can create an account for you then you can upload to downloads/people
2010-06-21 06:43 <kyak> wolfspraul: sent!
2010-06-21 06:56 <wolfspraul> kyak: added you to openwrt-xburst and openwrt-packages
2010-06-21 06:56 <wolfspraul> thanks for any tidbit you can contribute there, that's really cool!
2010-06-21 06:57 <wolfspraul> next the DAV account
2010-06-21 06:58 <kyak> wolfspraul: will try to do my best, thanks :)
2010-06-21 07:02 <wolfspraul> kyak: OK I added a DAV account too. Can you try with a DAV client whether you have read/write access to downloads.qi-hardware.com ?
2010-06-21 07:02 <wolfspraul> I create a people/kyak folder already
2010-06-21 07:03 <kyak> one sec
2010-06-21 07:03 <kyak> going to find a DAV client for linux :) never used it before
2010-06-21 07:04 <kyak> ok, gnome can do this..
2010-06-21 07:04 <wolfspraul> sometimes the UI and how you enter username/password are a bit spooky in some clients
2010-06-21 07:05 <wolfspraul> so they say 'read only' etc., some of them bring the user/password dialog at failed write attempts...
2010-06-21 07:05 <wolfspraul> kyak: if you upload binaries to /people/kyak, please do not upload any binaries that cause patent problems, like MP3, MPEG4, H.264
2010-06-21 07:06 <kyak> sure!
2010-06-21 07:08 <wolfspraul> does it work? (can you try?)
2010-06-21 07:18 <kyak> wolfspraul: yes, working very well, thank you!
2010-06-21 07:25 <wolfspraul> great, thanks! adding commit rights and accounts is the best thing for the project
2010-06-21 07:27 <kyak> :)
2010-06-21 08:57 <kyak> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak/tmp/jfbterm/jfbterm_0.4.7-1_xburst.ipk
2010-06-21 08:57 <kyak> My build of jfbterm.. It requires some configuration to display UTF-8 properly, and I havent figured out yet how to do it :)
2010-06-21 08:59 <kyak> and it's MUCH faster displaying, than the default terminal; and unifont looks more slim
2010-06-21 09:01 <kyak> by the way, there is also an fbterm build in people/kyak/tmp/fbterm.. but i suppose there is more chance for displaying of UTF-8 in console with jfbterm than fbterm
2010-06-21 09:06 <wolfspraul> what is the difference between jfbterm and fbterm?
2010-06-21 09:06 <wolfspraul> I only heard some Japanese like fbterm.
2010-06-21 09:07 <wolfspraul> in general I would like an easier way to increase/decrease console font sizes
2010-06-21 09:11 <kyak> jfbterm stands for Japanese fbterm :)
2010-06-21 09:11 <kyak> i hope it has a better support for utf-8
2010-06-21 09:11 <kyak> currently i don't have any luck with both of them
2010-06-21 09:11 <wolfspraul> ah there you go
2010-06-21 09:12 <wolfspraul> maybe it's just the bfbterm (better fbterm)
2010-06-21 09:12 <wolfspraul> it seems to be quite commonly used in Japan, or so I heard
2010-06-21 09:12 <kyak> i'ld like to find a jwfbterm (Just a Working fbterm )
2010-06-21 09:12 <kyak> :)
2010-06-21 09:16 <kyak> lol.. this is amazing what just happened :) i've launched jfbterm from a ssh session, and it started in Ben
2010-06-21 09:16 <kyak> not i'm typing in ssh screen, and everything goes to Ben's screen :)
2010-06-21 09:16 <kyak> i wonder if this is a bug or a feature
2010-06-21 09:17 <kyak> it feels like connecting external keyboard to Ben
2010-06-21 09:17 <kyak> i think jfbterm has attached my ssh virtual terminal to a real tty
2010-06-21 09:17 <zear> kyak, i don't know about the nanonote, but if you launch programs on dingux via telnet, they render on dingoo's screen
2010-06-21 09:19 <kyak> zear: that's interesting.. i thought for X programs this should depend on DISPLAY variable, and for SDL they just don't launch
2010-06-21 09:21 <kyak> zear: yes, the same for Ben.. at least gmu is rendered on Ben's screen
2010-06-21 09:22 <zear> via telnet, or via ssh?
2010-06-21 09:26 <kyak> via ssh
2010-06-21 09:26 <kyak> should be the same
2010-06-21 11:29 <kyak> is building openwrt with utf-8 and locales support
2010-06-21 11:39 <qi-commits> Xiangfu Liu: [new package] gawk, o3read, surfraw by Jirka http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/2dad1d3
2010-06-21 12:13 <rafa> kyak: is jfbterm better than fbterm?
2010-06-21 12:19 <kyak> rafa: it has support for bitmap fonts and supposedly supports i18n better. At least, when it comes to utf-8 support in console, there are many references to jfbterm
2010-06-21 12:20 <kyak> theoretically, fbterm is also capable of text encoding, but anyway I didn't succeed with any of them yet
2010-06-21 12:32 <kyak> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak/tmp/fbterm.png
2010-06-21 12:32 <kyak> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak/tmp/jfbterm.png
2010-06-21 12:33 <rafa> kyak: I ask because it looks like jfbterm is old (last version is 2003 no?).. and fbterm is current, but I do not know which is better, that is why I ask you :)
2010-06-21 12:35 <kyak> last version of jfbterm is 2005
2010-06-21 12:35 <kyak> but it doesn't matter as long as both don't do what i want :)
2010-06-21 12:36 <kyak> i'm just trying to play with both
2010-06-21 14:19 <nebajoth> sup
2010-06-21 14:20 <lekernel> where can I buy a RS232/3.3V shifter in Europe?
2010-06-21 14:20 <lekernel> France preferably
2010-06-21 14:20 <lekernel> pre-assembled
2010-06-21 14:23 <prpplague> lekernel: virtually any electronics outlet is going to carry uart level shifters
2010-06-21 14:24 <lekernel> prpplague, you overestimate the french electronics shops
2010-06-21 14:25 <lekernel> in my city they don't even have standard 2.54mm connector pins
2010-06-21 14:25 <lekernel> he10 etc.
2010-06-21 14:25 <lekernel> plus everything is expensive as hell
2010-06-21 14:25 <lekernel> like 10x the digikey prices
2010-06-21 14:27 <prpplague> lekernel: yea but you can afford to buy it since you have such good health care
2010-06-21 14:29 <lekernel> ok, let's say farnell or radiospares prices then - both companies have French divisions
2010-06-21 14:32 <Textmode> Morning all
2010-06-21 14:35 <nebajoth> SUP
2010-06-21 14:40 <dptech> hello where can i found the best tuto for flash to debian ?
2010-06-21 14:41 <nebajoth> dptech: I followed http://www.tuxbrain.com/en/content/%E6%9C%AC-ben-nanonote-editingcompilingflashing-arduino-sketch
2010-06-21 14:41 <nebajoth> the first part of it anyway
2010-06-21 14:47 <dptech> nebajoth: thanks, I must to see before to go... so I want to be sure to make very good!
2010-06-21 14:48 <dptech> I see first part for debian, perfect!
2010-06-21 15:06 <xdpirate> What do you call an LCD screen like the one the NN has? (In regards to every even row of pixels lines up, and every odd row of pixels lines up, but the odds and evens differ by half a pixel)
2010-06-21 15:14 <prpplague> xdpirate: the lcd in the NN is an passive matrix display with an 8-bit data interface
2010-06-21 15:19 <xdpirate> prpplague, thanks
2010-06-21 15:21 <prpplague> xdpirate: it is a pretty decent display and fairly easy to interface to
2010-06-21 15:21 <xdpirate> it's hard to read small fonts when the pixel matrix is lined up like that tbh
2010-06-21 15:22 <xdpirate> but i'm guessing the displays are cheaper to manufacture so
2010-06-21 15:22 <prpplague> yea, they are mainly manufacturer for dedicated devices that use small graphics
2010-06-21 15:23 <prpplague> i.e. game handhelds and control devices like a programmable thermostat
2010-06-21 15:24 <prpplague> i have the display from the NN working with some OMAP3 and OMAP4 devices
2010-06-21 15:52 <calamarz> sdschulze: did you succeeded in rebuilding debian kernel for the nn with the openwrt toolchain?
2010-06-21 15:54 <calamarz> sdschulze: i was trying to follow your notes but got no luck booting it :(
2010-06-21 19:17 <neil_> Hi.  I've read http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/How_to_reflash over and over but I'm still not confident of how to re-flash -just- the rootfs.  Do I still need to use nerase if I don't want to erase the whole NAND?  If I do, would nerase 2048 4096 0 0 be the right thing to do ( followed by nprog for the rootfs)?
2010-06-21 19:27 <larsc> `nerase 16 4080 0 0` earases the rootfs
2010-06-21 19:27 <emeb> why not just use the flash script and let it do u-boot, kernel and rootfs?
2010-06-21 19:29 <neil_> larsc: do you mean "4096" rather than "4080"?
2010-06-21 19:29 <neil_> or do you really mean 4080
2010-06-21 19:30 <neil_> emeb: I've got the reflash-ben.sh, thanks.  I'm trying to understand it.  The page on the wiki does say to avoid re-flashing u-boot unless necessary
2010-06-21 19:31 <larsc> neil_: the second parameter is the number of blocks to erase
2010-06-21 19:31 <larsc> since there are 4096 and you start at 16 you want to erase 4080 blocks
2010-06-21 19:32 <neil_> larsc: the wiki page says it's the block length.  ah.  does that mean "the number of blocks" and not "the block size", which is how I interpreted it?
2010-06-21 19:36 <emeb> neil_: larsc: careful! using 4080 will erase everything from 16 on to the end, not just the rootfs.
2010-06-21 19:37 <emeb> if you look at the reflash_ben.sh script you can see the parameter they use is 512, not 4080. The rootfs of the OpenWRT build doesn't take the whole rest of NAND
2010-06-21 19:38 <emeb> in the OpenWRT build they reserve the last portion of NAND for the data partition of ~ 1.7GB.
2010-06-21 19:40 <neil_> emeb: I read exactly what you say somewhere on the wiki but "df" shows 1.8GB free on my rootfs.  is this the ubifs compression?
2010-06-21 19:41 <emeb> neil_: no. when I do a df on mine I only see about 200M in the rootfs partion.
2010-06-21 19:41 <larsc> it depends in your image version
2010-06-21 19:41 <emeb> Where did you get this image?
2010-06-21 19:42 <neil_> mine's 2010-10-??  It came with the device
2010-06-21 19:42 <neil_> sorry
2010-06-21 19:42 <neil_> 2010-01-??
2010-06-21 19:42 <emeb> OK - that's the original. Pretty old u-boot and kernel too. You may want to update the u-boot and kernel because they're much improved since then.
2010-06-21 19:43 <neil_> emeb: OK, I'll update u-boot as well as you say.  sounds like having a data partition so my music isn't trashed when I update the rootfs is a good idea
2010-06-21 19:46 <emeb> neil_: yep - that was what I thought too. There are some good instructions on the wiki for setting up the data partition after you reflash.
2010-06-21 19:46 <emeb> I just used the script and it worked fine.
2010-06-21 19:47 <neil_> why does reflash-ben.sh only issue an nerase command for the rootfs and not for the u-boot and kernel partitions?
2010-06-21 19:47 <emeb> the new u-boot allows booting into USB mode without fiddling around with the shorting pads under the battery.
2010-06-21 19:47 <emeb> neil_: no idea about the nerase. I was wondering that too
2010-06-21 19:47 <neil_> emeb: but it worked for you anyway?
2010-06-21 19:48 <emeb> neil_: yes it worked fine both times I ran it.
2010-06-21 19:48 <larsc> neil_: for the rootfs leftovers from the previous on need to be cleaned up. for kernel and uboot it doesn't matter
2010-06-21 19:48 <larsc> s/on/one
2010-06-21 19:50 <neil_> thanks for all the help.  I'm learning a lot and it's getting clearer
2010-06-21 19:50 <emeb> neil_: looking at the logfile from the reflash script it appears that the nprog command does an erase automatically.
2010-06-21 19:51 <larsc> neil_: if you think there is misleading or missing information on the wiki, please update it.
2010-06-21 19:51 <emeb> it may be redundant to do it in the script.
2010-06-21 20:06 <neil_> larsc: OK, I will do.  thanks
2010-06-21 20:54 <nebajoth> sup
2010-06-21 21:34 <nebajoth> hey
2010-06-21 21:34 <nebajoth> does the openwrt firmware use dumpkeys/loadkeys?
2010-06-21 21:34 <nebajoth> or is that just a debian thing?
2010-06-21 21:35 <nebajoth> anyone using debian: ping
2010-06-21 21:43 <xiangfu> I tried loadkeys in openwrt before. but not success. the BUSYBOX's loadkeys use different file format.
2010-06-21 21:54 <nebajoth> what about dumpkeys?
2010-06-21 21:55 <qwebirc64441> Hello.. just flashed the Nanonote with Debian... Now it won't turn on..
2010-06-21 21:56 <nebajoth> what happens when you take out the battery and plug in the usb cable?
2010-06-21 21:56 <nebajoth> does the red light come on for a brief second, then go off?
2010-06-21 21:56 <qwebirc64441> Nothing.
2010-06-21 21:56 <qwebirc64441> Hmm.. let me check.
2010-06-21 21:57 <qwebirc64441> Yes, it does.
2010-06-21 21:57 <nebajoth> your bootloader is corrupt
2010-06-21 21:57 <qwebirc64441> Ah.
2010-06-21 21:57 <nebajoth> you need to short the usb boot pins beneath the battery
2010-06-21 21:57 <nebajoth> force it into usb boot mode
2010-06-21 21:57 <qwebirc64441> Ok.
2010-06-21 21:57 <nebajoth> and then reflash
2010-06-21 21:58 <nebajoth> I use tin foil
2010-06-21 21:58 <nebajoth> a small piece
2010-06-21 21:58 <qwebirc64441> Just the boot-loader or everything?
2010-06-21 21:58 <nebajoth> I'd wipe it clean
2010-06-21 21:58 <nebajoth> and then restart
2010-06-21 21:58 <qwebirc64441> Ok.
2010-06-21 21:58 <nebajoth> do the erase function
2010-06-21 21:58 <qwebirc64441> Nod.
2010-06-21 21:58 <nebajoth> what tutorial are you following?
2010-06-21 21:59 <qwebirc64441> http://pyneo.org/howto/debian/nano.html
2010-06-21 21:59 <nebajoth> that didn't work for me
2010-06-21 21:59 <nebajoth> the rootfs in particular
2010-06-21 21:59 <qwebirc64441> Ah.
2010-06-21 21:59 <nebajoth> I used tuxbrain's tutorial
2010-06-21 21:59 <nebajoth> with a different rootfs
2010-06-21 21:59 <nebajoth> sec
2010-06-21 21:59 <qwebirc64441> Ok. Thanks.
2010-06-21 21:59 <nebajoth> http://www.tuxbrain.com/en/content/%E6%9C%AC-ben-nanonote-editingcompilingflashing-arduino-sketch
2010-06-21 22:00 <nebajoth> the first part is what you need
2010-06-21 22:00 <nebajoth> ignore the stuff about the arduino
2010-06-21 22:00 <nebajoth> (unless you have one)
2010-06-21 22:00 <nebajoth> specifically this line: wget http://mister-muffin.de/nanonote/debian-sid.ubi
2010-06-21 22:00 <qwebirc64441> Ok.
2010-06-21 22:00 <nebajoth> I used the pyneo commands
2010-06-21 22:00 <nebajoth> and that .ubi
2010-06-21 22:00 <nebajoth> and it works a treat
2010-06-21 22:00 <qwebirc64441> Cool.
2010-06-21 22:01 <nebajoth> xiangfu: I occasionallyy get a message about scrubbing PEBs and moving them to other PEBs
2010-06-21 22:01 <nebajoth> is this a matter for concern?
2010-06-21 22:03 <wolfspraul> qwebirc64441: your Nano is already unbricked? (just reading up)
2010-06-21 22:04 <wolfspraul> if your u-boot bootloader is indeed corrupted, you need to short the USB boot pin but there should be a little rubbery button included in your box
2010-06-21 22:04 <nebajoth> oh yeys
2010-06-21 22:04 <nebajoth> yes
2010-06-21 22:04 <nebajoth> I lost mine
2010-06-21 22:04 <wolfspraul> use that, much easier than aluminum foil
2010-06-21 22:04 <nebajoth> also hello wolfspraul
2010-06-21 22:04 <wolfspraul> nebajoth: email me your shipping address and we'll mail you a few more in regular mail
2010-06-21 22:05 <nebajoth> sweet!
2010-06-21 22:05 <wolfspraul> I think they cost 0.5 US cents or so a piece, forgot :-)
2010-06-21 22:05 <nebajoth> haha, well shipping might be a little more
2010-06-21 22:05 <qwebirc64441> wolfspraul: Not yet. I'm in the process of putting it into USB-boot mode.
2010-06-21 22:05 <nebajoth> any word on backlit keyboards for the Ya? :D
2010-06-21 22:05 <wolfspraul> sure but we'll just throw them in a regular letter
2010-06-21 22:05 <nebajoth> oh snap
2010-06-21 22:06 <nebajoth> I fixed my keymap problem
2010-06-21 22:06 <nebajoth> finally, a working + key
2010-06-21 22:06 <nebajoth> now I can use remind again
2010-06-21 22:06 <wolfspraul> nebajoth: please keep your expectations for those things (backlit keyboad) very low
2010-06-21 22:06 <nebajoth> haha, I do
2010-06-21 22:06 <wolfspraul> we have to 100% focus on what this project is about - copyleft hardware
2010-06-21 22:06 <wolfspraul> we sold 800 Ben, which is great
2010-06-21 22:06 <wolfspraul> but of course totally not sustainable
2010-06-21 22:06 <nebajoth> nope
2010-06-21 22:06 <nebajoth> not unless you increase the price a great deal :O
2010-06-21 22:07 <wolfspraul> so we need to be very careful, 100% focus on what is unique about our product
2010-06-21 22:07 <wolfspraul> increase price = death
2010-06-21 22:07 <wolfspraul> this is a hardware business
2010-06-21 22:07 <nebajoth> yep
2010-06-21 22:07 <wolfspraul> I want to decrease prices.
2010-06-21 22:07 <nebajoth> I dunno, key visibility in low light situations seems like a pretty universal requirement
2010-06-21 22:07 <nebajoth> for a "portable" device
2010-06-21 22:07 <wolfspraul> so anyway, when we think about Ya, we have some amount X of cash
2010-06-21 22:07 <nebajoth> whatever the use case scenario
2010-06-21 22:07 <wolfspraul> and it will be very little
2010-06-21 22:08 <wolfspraul> and we will focus it only on the areas that matter to actually be able to ship the product
2010-06-21 22:08 <wolfspraul> but now, on the good side, I agree about your observations about the keyboard
2010-06-21 22:08 <neil_> what impact on the price would USB host have?
2010-06-21 22:08 <nebajoth> almost none, I'd think
2010-06-21 22:08 <wolfspraul> that's the advantage of all of us using this thing, and the reason why we launched the project the way we do
2010-06-21 22:08 <wolfspraul> get a real product out first
2010-06-21 22:08 <nebajoth> the jz4740 has usb host capability
2010-06-21 22:08 <wolfspraul> collect real life feedback, grow a community
2010-06-21 22:08 <nebajoth> if I read the spec sheets correctly
2010-06-21 22:09 <nebajoth> it'd have to be broken out into the circuitboard for a connector
2010-06-21 22:09 <wolfspraul> once you do a full little computer with 2-3 full-time people, some volunteers, and some donated cash, every tiny thing becomes big :-)
2010-06-21 22:09 <nebajoth> yeah, I hear you wolfspraul
2010-06-21 22:09 <nebajoth> any chance you can send me some blank keys?
2010-06-21 22:09 <nebajoth> I'll experiment with glow in the dark paints :D
2010-06-21 22:09 <wolfspraul> blank keys?
2010-06-21 22:10 <nebajoth> I want to replace mine
2010-06-21 22:10 <wolfspraul> I think the print is under the plastic
2010-06-21 22:10 <nebajoth> yeah
2010-06-21 22:10 <wolfspraul> I'm not sure how easy it is to take the keyboard apart
2010-06-21 22:10 <wolfspraul> it may all break
2010-06-21 22:10 <nebajoth> not very
2010-06-21 22:10 <wolfspraul> if I have some old prototype/sample keyboard I can throw it in, for sure
2010-06-21 22:10 <nebajoth> what do you do for a day job, wolfspraul?
2010-06-21 22:10 <wolfspraul> ha
2010-06-21 22:10 <wolfspraul> this is my 'day job'
2010-06-21 22:10 <nebajoth> :P
2010-06-21 22:10 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-06-21 22:11 <nebajoth> where does the money come from to pay you?
2010-06-21 22:11 <wolfspraul> it's 10.10 AM in China
2010-06-21 22:11 <wolfspraul> from my savings
2010-06-21 22:11 <nebajoth> :O
2010-06-21 22:11 <nebajoth> you're betting big on this
2010-06-21 22:11 <nebajoth> do you live in China?
2010-06-21 22:11 <wolfspraul> I don't think like that.
2010-06-21 22:11 <wolfspraul> yes, China
2010-06-21 22:11 <nebajoth> you are German by birth?
2010-06-21 22:11 <wolfspraul> keep costs of living low, plus manufacturing is here
2010-06-21 22:12 <nebajoth> interesting
2010-06-21 22:12 <wolfspraul> yes. first Germany, then >10yr US make some money and savings, then 3+ years China spend the savings
2010-06-21 22:12 <nebajoth> what do you work on mostly?
2010-06-21 22:12 <wolfspraul> he he
2010-06-21 22:12 <nebajoth> haha
2010-06-21 22:12 <wolfspraul> yeah, seriously
2010-06-21 22:12 <wolfspraul> that's the short story
2010-06-21 22:12 <wolfspraul> I work on manufacturing issues
2010-06-21 22:12 <nebajoth> pretty interesting story actually
2010-06-21 22:12 <nebajoth> could make a good magazine article
2010-06-21 22:13 <nebajoth> when its time to get real publicity out about this unit
2010-06-21 22:13 <wolfspraul> I'm a software engineer originally.
2010-06-21 22:13 <wolfspraul> fun stuff, file systems
2010-06-21 22:13 <neil_> how do test a file system ( other than by using it)?
2010-06-21 22:14 <neil_> s/do/do you/
2010-06-21 22:14 <wolfspraul> sure run automated scripts/programs
2010-06-21 22:14 <wolfspraul> file systems are hardcore, especially on multi-core/SMT machines, with swapping going on, etc.
2010-06-21 22:14 <wolfspraul> it was a fun time back then
2010-06-21 22:14 <wolfspraul> but I have to say manufacturing is also really really interesting. totally overlooked.
2010-06-21 22:15 <wolfspraul> nebajoth: so far I think our NanoNote is off to a good start, isn't it?
2010-06-21 22:15 <wolfspraul> after the first year...
2010-06-21 22:15 <qwebirc64441> Damn. It's a real bitch trying to get it into USB-boot mode.
2010-06-21 22:15 <wolfspraul> now we throw all that we've learnt into Ya, very much looking forward to it
2010-06-21 22:15 <wolfspraul> qwebirc64441: yeah, one thing we need to improve in Ya :-)
2010-06-21 22:15 <qwebirc64441> Yep.
2010-06-21 22:15 <wolfspraul> qwebirc64441: do you use the carbonized rubber button?
2010-06-21 22:15 <neil_> I'd say so.  Incredible that it can be made for $99
2010-06-21 22:15 <qwebirc64441> Yeah.
2010-06-21 22:16 <nebajoth> wolfspraul: NanoNote rules, dude.
2010-06-21 22:16 <wolfspraul> unplug the USB cable
2010-06-21 22:16 <nebajoth> I effing love this thing
2010-06-21 22:16 <nebajoth> it really grows on you
2010-06-21 22:16 <nebajoth> and I think that's mostly about hardware that just works
2010-06-21 22:16 <wolfspraul> push the carbonized rubber button against the USB boot pins
2010-06-21 22:16 <neil_> I'm re-flashing for the 1st time right now.  It says I have a Jz4740.  I thought it was Jz4720?
2010-06-21 22:16 <wolfspraul> plug the USB cable back in
2010-06-21 22:16 <wolfspraul> ah, sorry, forgot something :-)
2010-06-21 22:16 <wolfspraul> on your host, run "watch lsusb"
2010-06-21 22:17 <wolfspraul> when you see the ID "0x601a:4740" show up, that's your Nano in USB boot mode
2010-06-21 22:17 <wolfspraul> so it's easy to watch it there
2010-06-21 22:17 <wolfspraul> so if you plug the USB cable in, you can also press the power-on button (hold for 2-3 seconds to be sure)
2010-06-21 22:17 <nebajoth> I prefer 'watch -n 0.2 lsusb'
2010-06-21 22:18 <nebajoth> but I'm an impatient guy
2010-06-21 22:18 <wolfspraul> you only need to short the USB boot pins at the time when the CPU gets power
2010-06-21 22:18 <wolfspraul> you don't need to hold it
2010-06-21 22:18 <wolfspraul> (after the CPU is powered)
2010-06-21 22:18 <nebajoth> is holding it a problem?
2010-06-21 22:18 <nebajoth> I'm breaking my usb-mode pads out to the side of the unit
2010-06-21 22:18 <wolfspraul> basically when the CPU gets powered, it checks those pins. If short, branch to USB boot mode. if not short, boot from NAND.
2010-06-21 22:18 <nebajoth> and I was going to put in a switch
2010-06-21 22:18 <wolfspraul> holding shouldn't be a problem
2010-06-21 22:18 <nebajoth> ok good
2010-06-21 22:19 <wolfspraul> neil_: 4720/4725/4740 is all the same die, just different packaging (=way the CPU is wrapped in plastic and fixed to the PCB)
2010-06-21 22:19 <nebajoth> how much memory is going into the Ya, you think?
2010-06-21 22:19 <wolfspraul> A LOT! :-)
2010-06-21 22:19 <wolfspraul> he he
2010-06-21 22:19 <wolfspraul> don't know
2010-06-21 22:19 <nebajoth> :D
2010-06-21 22:19 <wolfspraul> we will drive this together, the specs and all
2010-06-21 22:19 <wolfspraul> it will be fun
2010-06-21 22:19 <wolfspraul> we have so many good people on board now
2010-06-21 22:20 <wolfspraul> just need to cleanup a bit
2010-06-21 22:20 <wolfspraul> merge the discussion & developer mailing lists into one
2010-06-21 22:20 <neil_> are you concerned about overlap with the Pandora?
2010-06-21 22:20 <wolfspraul> not at all
2010-06-21 22:20 <wolfspraul> Pandora is not copyleft hardware
2010-06-21 22:20 <wolfspraul> of course they run Linux and all so that's cool
2010-06-21 22:20 <nebajoth> I want to get a Lemote
2010-06-21 22:20 <wolfspraul> neil_: we are very serious about this copyleft hardware thing
2010-06-21 22:20 <nebajoth> chips with chinese symbols on them are 1337
2010-06-21 22:21 <wolfspraul> we need to work more on that, like GPL licensed production testing software (for Ya definitely)
2010-06-21 22:21 <wolfspraul> also case design
2010-06-21 22:21 <wolfspraul> need to cleanup some trademark issues (like 'microSD')
2010-06-21 22:21 <nebajoth> case design isn't open?
2010-06-21 22:21 <wolfspraul> we worked hard on the patent problem, and still ongoing
2010-06-21 22:21 <wolfspraul> nebajoth: first question is "what is open case design?"
2010-06-21 22:21 <nebajoth> haha
2010-06-21 22:21 <wolfspraul> right now we have design files open, but not 3D files
2010-06-21 22:21 <nebajoth> schematics with a CC license?
2010-06-21 22:22 <wolfspraul> sure
2010-06-21 22:22 <wolfspraul> all that stuff is there
2010-06-21 22:22 <wolfspraul> I am talking about the plastic parts.
2010-06-21 22:22 <nebajoth> hmm
2010-06-21 22:22 <wolfspraul> of course the design files are all CC licensed.
2010-06-21 22:22 <nebajoth> we need to be able to build one of these with a RepRap
2010-06-21 22:22 <neil_> one day it would be nice to use a RepRap or one of its descendants to fab a new case at home
2010-06-21 22:22 <nebajoth> haha
2010-06-21 22:22 <wolfspraul> the problem with mechanical is that all professional software isproprietary
2010-06-21 22:22 <neil_> ninja!
2010-06-21 22:22 <nebajoth> inb4
2010-06-21 22:22 <nebajoth> pwnt
2010-06-21 22:22 <wolfspraul> anyway we work on that
2010-06-21 22:22 <wolfspraul> one by one
2010-06-21 22:22 <wolfspraul> we start with the most valuable parts
2010-06-21 22:23 <wolfspraul> hey guys, Milkymist One boots Linux, did you know?
2010-06-21 22:23 <nebajoth> :O
2010-06-21 22:23 <nebajoth> no I had no idea
2010-06-21 22:23 <wolfspraul> that's our future free GPL licensed CPU!!!
2010-06-21 22:23 <nebajoth> is it fast? :P
2010-06-21 22:23 <wolfspraul> On the XYZ NanoNote in 2020 :-)
2010-06-21 22:24 <wolfspraul> neil_: let me show you something I really like (still wrt your Pandora question)
2010-06-21 22:24 <wolfspraul> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_SMT/DIP_Process_Flow
2010-06-21 22:24 <wolfspraul> this is awesome!
2010-06-21 22:24 <wolfspraul> documentation about the SMT process for Milkymist One
2010-06-21 22:24 <neil_> I'm getting "Error - can't read bulk data from Ingenic device:1344" when running sudo ./reflash_ben.sh.  I have the latest reflash.sh and xburst-tools
2010-06-21 22:24 <wolfspraul> I think this is the best and most thoroughly documented SMT process ever.
2010-06-21 22:25 <nebajoth> neil_: is the unit actually in usb boot mode?
2010-06-21 22:25 <neil_> think so.  it started the flash process
2010-06-21 22:25 <nebajoth> uh oh
2010-06-21 22:25 <wolfspraul> did you see whether it flashed u-boot and kernel already?
2010-06-21 22:25 <wolfspraul> when did it stop?
2010-06-21 22:26 <nebajoth> wolfspraul: that milkymist link is awesome
2010-06-21 22:26 <neil_> I have 601a:4740 in lsusb.  can I paste multi-line here or is that rude?
2010-06-21 22:26 <wolfspraul> ok for me, but probably not needed
2010-06-21 22:26 <wolfspraul> ok if you see that ID, it means you are in USB boot mode. good.
2010-06-21 22:27 <neil_>  Checking 454656 bytes... no check! End at Page: 605421569
2010-06-21 22:27 <neil_>  Skip a old bad block !===
2010-06-21 22:27 <neil_> fatal error occured - ABORTED
2010-06-21 22:27 <neil_> ===
2010-06-21 22:27 <neil_> error while flashing bootloader:
2010-06-21 22:27 <neil_> that's from the log.txt
2010-06-21 22:27 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-21 22:27 <wolfspraul> boot loader
2010-06-21 22:27 <wolfspraul> let's try manually :-)
2010-06-21 22:27 <wolfspraul> I don't like the reflash script anyway...
2010-06-21 22:27 <wolfspraul> turn off the Nano
2010-06-21 22:27 <wolfspraul> unplug USB cable
2010-06-21 22:28 <wolfspraul> short the USB boot pins with the carbonized rubber button
2010-06-21 22:28 <neil_> ok.  doing that now
2010-06-21 22:28 <nebajoth> hmmm
2010-06-21 22:28 <nebajoth> how do I get a milkymist?
2010-06-21 22:28 <wolfspraul> plug the USB cable in, press POWER ON, see the 0x601a:4740 showing up
2010-06-21 22:28 <neil_> do I have to wait a minute like it says on the wiki?
2010-06-21 22:28 <wolfspraul> minute?
2010-06-21 22:28 <wolfspraul> no
2010-06-21 22:29 <neil_> ok, got vend/prod
2010-06-21 22:29 <wolfspraul> if you see the 601a:4740, all is good
2010-06-21 22:29 <wolfspraul> now run 'usbboot' (as root)
2010-06-21 22:29 <wolfspraul> just 'usbboot'
2010-06-21 22:29 <wolfspraul> it will go to a command prompt
2010-06-21 22:29 <wolfspraul> first command: "boot"
2010-06-21 22:29 <neil_> ok.  doing
2010-06-21 22:29 <wolfspraul> second command: "nprog 0 u-boot.bin 0 0 -n" (sorry u-boot.bin needs to be the real long filename of u-boot)
2010-06-21 22:30 <neil_> succeeded
2010-06-21 22:30 <wolfspraul> how about the nprog command?
2010-06-21 22:31 <neil_> got prompt back.  last thing it said was "Skip a old bad block"
2010-06-21 22:31 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-21 22:31 <nebajoth> neil_: reinstall openssh-server, and install console-setup
2010-06-21 22:31 <nebajoth> the first will force it to generate a key for the ssh server
2010-06-21 22:31 <nebajoth> and the second will fix a keymap issue
2010-06-21 22:31 <wolfspraul> neil_: let's run an erase command over your entire NAND first
2010-06-21 22:31 <nebajoth> at least, an issue I was having
2010-06-21 22:31 <nebajoth> qwebirc64441: ^^
2010-06-21 22:32 <nebajoth> qwebirc64441: any luck?
2010-06-21 22:32 <neil_> nebajoth: does "boot" install an SSH server/client then?
2010-06-21 22:32 <wolfspraul> neil_: is that OK with you?
2010-06-21 22:32 <neil_> sure
2010-06-21 22:32 <wolfspraul> so try "nerase 0 4096 0 0"
2010-06-21 22:32 <nebajoth> neil_: eh?
2010-06-21 22:32 <wolfspraul> that will nuke the entire 2 GB
2010-06-21 22:32 <nebajoth> neil_: openssh is installed by default, if that's what you're asking
2010-06-21 22:32 <nebajoth> but it doesn't work
2010-06-21 22:32 <wolfspraul> after that the nprog command again
2010-06-21 22:33 <nebajoth> you will almost certainly need to designate a swap file
2010-06-21 22:33 <nebajoth> or use the microsd as a swap partition
2010-06-21 22:33 <wolfspraul> neil_: no no, "boot" will only load a tiny snipped to the Nano so usbboot can community with the Nano
2010-06-21 22:33 <nebajoth> (I do the latter, but xiangfu has done the former)
2010-06-21 22:33 <wolfspraul> ouch it's getting confusing now, we talk about entirely different things
2010-06-21 22:33 <nebajoth> sorry
2010-06-21 22:33 <nebajoth> I'm going to bed soon
2010-06-21 22:33 <nebajoth> I was just pouring out information :P
2010-06-21 22:33 <nebajoth> but I've just confused things
2010-06-21 22:33 <neil_> wolfspraul: ok.  I think I got crossed wires just then.  have done nerase now.  last thing it said was "Force erase, no bad block infomation!"
2010-06-21 22:34 <wolfspraul> ok
2010-06-21 22:34 <wolfspraul> now the nprog command again
2010-06-21 22:34 <wolfspraul> "nprog 0 u-boot.bin 0 0 -n"
2010-06-21 22:34 <qwebirc64441> nebajoth: Not yet. :/
2010-06-21 22:34 <qwebirc64441> nebajoth: Cant' get it into USB-boot mode.
2010-06-21 22:34 <xiangfu> it's u-boot-nand.bin
2010-06-21 22:34 <neil_> same:  Finish! (len 454656 start_page 0 page_num 111)
2010-06-21 22:34 <neil_> Error - can't read bulk data from Ingenic device:64
2010-06-21 22:34 <neil_>  Checking 454656 bytes... no check! End at Page: 8402977
2010-06-21 22:34 <neil_>  Skip a old bad block !
2010-06-21 22:34 <nebajoth> qwebirc64441: are you using the plastic doohickey or tinfoil?
2010-06-21 22:35 <qwebirc64441> The plastic thing.
2010-06-21 22:35 <nebajoth> hm
2010-06-21 22:35 <nebajoth> qwebirc64441, neil_: remember to sign up for nanohacks.org if you haven't already
2010-06-21 22:35 <neil_> wolfspraul: USB cable is the one that came with it.  host can only do USB 1.1.  is that relevant?
2010-06-21 22:35 <nebajoth> there's only a few of us posting stuff, but its the official home for debian discussion
2010-06-21 22:36 <wolfspraul> neil_: thinking
2010-06-21 22:36 <wolfspraul> neil_: can you try on another Linux host machine?
2010-06-21 22:37 <wolfspraul> or if your computer has multiple USB plugs, try the other ones
2010-06-21 22:37 <neil_> wolfspraul: can do.  will take a few mins to install xburst and so on
2010-06-21 22:37 <wolfspraul> do you have multiple USB connectors on this computer?
2010-06-21 22:37 <neil_> yes, although they've always behaved the same, unlike some other machines I've seen
2010-06-21 22:37 <wolfspraul> several people have seen problems behind USB hubs, and sometimes there are hub chips on the mainboard
2010-06-21 22:38 <wolfspraul> can you still turn on your Nano?
2010-06-21 22:38 <wolfspraul> or screen just stays black?
2010-06-21 22:39 <qwebirc64441> Well.. trial and error.. trial and error.. i'll keep trying. Thanks for all of your help.
2010-06-21 22:39 <neil_> inserting in either port shows:Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
2010-06-21 22:39 <neil_> Bus 002 Device 034: ID 601a:4740
2010-06-21 22:39 <neil_> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
2010-06-21 22:39 <neil_> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
2010-06-21 22:40 <neil_> wolfspraul: can still turn it on.  it says unusual stuff
2010-06-21 22:40 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-21 22:40 <wolfspraul> maybe the bootloader is just fune
2010-06-21 22:40 <wolfspraul> fine
2010-06-21 22:40 <wolfspraul> let's try to flash the kernel
2010-06-21 22:40 <wolfspraul> run 'usbboot'
2010-06-21 22:41 <wolfspraul> then at the command prompt 'boot'
2010-06-21 22:41 <wolfspraul> then 'nprog 1024 uImage.bin 0 0 -n'
2010-06-21 22:41 <neil_> wolfspraul: aha.  it says on LCD: Wrong Image Format for bootm command
2010-06-21 22:41 <wolfspraul> replace uImage.bin with the name of your kernel image
2010-06-21 22:41 <wolfspraul> what are you flashing actually? openwrt 2010-06-15?
2010-06-21 22:41 <neil_> wolfspraul: whatever the reflash-ben script downloaded
2010-06-21 22:42 <wolfspraul> ok
2010-06-21 22:42 <wolfspraul> openwrt 2010-06-15
2010-06-21 22:42 <wolfspraul> let's try nprog for the kernel, see whether more/other errors show up
2010-06-21 22:42 <neil_> wolfspraul: it actually has a timestamp of 2010-06-16 but that might just be 'cos I'm in NZ
2010-06-21 22:43 <wolfspraul> from your log, my guess is that after the bootloader has been flashed successfully, usbboot looses connection with the Nano
2010-06-21 22:43 <wolfspraul> (can't read bulk data)
2010-06-21 22:43 <neil_> wolfspraul: ok, will try the kernel now then
2010-06-21 22:43 <wolfspraul> all errors after that are just because usbboot lost connection
2010-06-21 22:43 <wolfspraul> yeah let's try that
2010-06-21 22:44 <wolfspraul> maybe you get other errors
2010-06-21 22:44 <wolfspraul> also kernel is bigger, so that's good
2010-06-21 22:46 <wolfspraul> neil_: I have another idea - my favorite :-) microSD booting
2010-06-21 22:46 <wolfspraul> do you have a microSD card?
2010-06-21 22:46 <neil_> wolfspraul: it says scarier things like "Comparing 524288 bytes - FAIL at off 3008, wrote 0x37, read 0xb5"
2010-06-21 22:47 <wolfspraul> preferably a smaller one, 1 GB or so there is a bug in u-boot with larger microSD cards right now
2010-06-21 22:47 <wolfspraul> neil_: yeah OK.
2010-06-21 22:47 <wolfspraul> I doubt this is your Nano, it's USB related.
2010-06-21 22:47 <wolfspraul> just a guess
2010-06-21 22:47 <neil_> wolfspraul: yes, 2GB uSD just arrived this morning.  it says it's Kingston but I suspect it's not after reading Bunnie's report
2010-06-21 22:47 <wolfspraul> do you have a microSD card?
2010-06-21 22:47 <wolfspraul> hah
2010-06-21 22:47 <wolfspraul> Bunnie's report is awesome!
2010-06-21 22:48 <neil_> wolfspraul: too true
2010-06-21 22:48 <wolfspraul> ok let's try this
2010-06-21 22:48 <neil_> wolfspraul: I could try on another laptop first if that's better
2010-06-21 22:48 <wolfspraul> partition the microSD card, one big ext2 partition
2010-06-21 22:48 <wolfspraul> unpack the openwrt rootfs into the root of that partition
2010-06-21 22:48 <wolfspraul> (you have to download the .tar.gz file)
2010-06-21 22:49 <wolfspraul> put the kernel into /boot/uImage on the microSD filesystem
2010-06-21 22:49 <wolfspraul> then insert the microSD into your Nano, boot the Nano and hold the 'm' key
2010-06-21 22:49 <wolfspraul> with some luck it should boot openwrt from the microSD card
2010-06-21 22:50 <wolfspraul> yes, another laptop is also good, we collect more data
2010-06-21 22:50 <wolfspraul> sorry for the inconvenience, your type of problem is new to me, never seen this kind of thing
2010-06-21 22:51 <neil_> wolfspraul: sorry for delay.   had to open the impossible packaging around the uSD card
2010-06-21 22:51 <wolfspraul> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/2010-06-15/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-rootfs.tar.gz
2010-06-21 22:51 <wolfspraul> this is what you need to unpack into the ext2 partition on the microSD card
2010-06-21 22:51 <wolfspraul> http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/2010-06-15/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-uImage.bin
2010-06-21 22:52 <wolfspraul> and then put this file into /boot/uImage (on the microSD card)
2010-06-21 22:52 <wolfspraul> neil_: it's a long shot, but we should try
2010-06-21 22:53 <wolfspraul> my assumption is that your u-boot reflashed correctly (even though you got errors), and that your microSD card will not exhibit the bug we have in u-boot right now that makes > 50% of microSD cards fail booting
2010-06-21 22:53 <wolfspraul> let's see :-)
2010-06-21 22:54 <neil_> wolfspraul: doing all that now
2010-06-21 22:58 <urandom_> seems like python-gtk ipkg doesnt work on openwrt ben, also ruby-ncurses might not work
2010-06-21 22:59 <urandom_> at least pygame seems to work
2010-06-21 23:00 <neil_> urandom_: pygame is ported!?  cool
2010-06-21 23:00 <nebajoth> oh snap
2010-06-21 23:00 <nebajoth> apt-get install pygame
2010-06-21 23:01 <neil_> wolfspraul: do I just rename this blahblah-uImage.bin file to uImage on the SD?
2010-06-21 23:01 <wolfspraul> yes
2010-06-21 23:01 <wolfspraul> make sure to put it in /boot/uImage
2010-06-21 23:02 <neil_> wolfspraul: ok.  I was going to put it in /, so good catch
2010-06-21 23:02 <neil_> wolfspraul: ok, all that is done
2010-06-21 23:03 <wolfspraul> kewl
2010-06-21 23:03 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-06-21 23:03 <neil_> nebajoth: do you mean pygame for Debian on NN or pygame on OpenWRT?
2010-06-21 23:03 <wolfspraul> put it into the Nano, press power_on and hold the 'm' key
2010-06-21 23:04 <urandom_> when someone made a package for python-gtk and put it in the repo wouldnt he test it?
2010-06-21 23:04 <neil_> wolfspraul: sorry I only just thought of this: the battery has been out the whole time, powered only by USB
2010-06-21 23:05 <neil_> wolfspraul: could that be a problem?  maybe my USB port power is drooping or something. anyway, should I leave it as-is or replace the battery before booting the SD?
2010-06-21 23:05 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-21 23:05 <wolfspraul> shouldn't matter
2010-06-21 23:05 <urandom_> neil_ we have pygame for openwrt and debian, apt-get is for debian
2010-06-21 23:06 <urandom_> and jlime i think
2010-06-21 23:06 <wolfspraul> unplug the cable once (without battery) to make sure you start from a clean zero state
2010-06-21 23:06 <neil_> urandom_: that is very cool.  no need for me to cross-compile to develop most stuff then
2010-06-21 23:06 <wolfspraul> I have seen USB hosts that indeed had power problems (good idea!)
2010-06-21 23:06 <wolfspraul> but let's just try this microSD booting now
2010-06-21 23:07 <urandom_> i personaly dont like pygame, ulove will be much better
2010-06-21 23:07 <wolfspraul> urandom_: remember we are just a few people and essentially doing a whole distro for an embedded device here
2010-06-21 23:07 <wolfspraul> test plan is sorely missing, I agree
2010-06-21 23:08 <wolfspraul> but I have a feeling I will have to focus on reflash & software update issues for quite a while, as you see there are still too many people who get stuck on that.
2010-06-21 23:08 <wolfspraul> with all the people that are helping we have made tremendous progress, but I think there are 2000+ packages in openwrt, and of course most of them are untested
2010-06-21 23:08 <wolfspraul> jlime has 18,000 packages or so, 2 or 3 volunteers :-)
2010-06-21 23:09 <wolfspraul> neil_: how's it going?
2010-06-21 23:09 <neil_> wolfspraul: wow. booted.  has desktop.  not seen that before.  quite flickery
2010-06-21 23:09 <wolfspraul> yeah, flickering
2010-06-21 23:09 <wolfspraul> sorry
2010-06-21 23:09 <wolfspraul> software bug, no worries
2010-06-21 23:09 <neil_> wolfspraul: it worked though!
2010-06-21 23:09 <wolfspraul> not a hardware issue, definitely not
2010-06-21 23:09 <urandom_> i am not sure if we even should keep openwrt as a main distro, i mean i like it but maybe jlime is better
2010-06-21 23:10 <neil_> wolfspraul: I'll try dClock, "x" later on
2010-06-21 23:10 <wolfspraul> neil
2010-06-21 23:10 <wolfspraul> one sec
2010-06-21 23:10 <wolfspraul> we haven't reflashed your NAND properly yet
2010-06-21 23:10 <wolfspraul> let's make sure all is good there
2010-06-21 23:10 <neil_> wolfspraul: yes, sorry I didn't think we were done.  mislead you there
2010-06-21 23:10 <nebajoth> the strength of going with openwrt as the main supported distro
2010-06-21 23:10 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-21 23:11 <nebajoth> is that it lends itself to targetting specific niches
2010-06-21 23:11 <wolfspraul> I need help
2010-06-21 23:11 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-06-21 23:11 <nebajoth> it enables people to put together custom mini-distros
2010-06-21 23:11 <nebajoth> without all the overheard of OE
2010-06-21 23:11 <wolfspraul> neil_ has a working u-boot in NAND, but kernel and rootfs not yet
2010-06-21 23:11 <nebajoth> which is what is used to build jlime, I believe
2010-06-21 23:11 <wolfspraul> I know how to write the rootfs from inside Linux, but never done the kernel
2010-06-21 23:12 <nebajoth> you mean the commandline commands to flash it?
2010-06-21 23:12 <wolfspraul> neil_: for the rootfs, what you need to do is this: download http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/2010-06-15/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-root.ubi
2010-06-21 23:12 <wolfspraul> (maybe you can find it on your host, reflash_ben.sh must have downloaded it already)
2010-06-21 23:12 <wolfspraul> copy that file onto your microSD card
2010-06-21 23:12 <wolfspraul> (first turn off your Nano)
2010-06-21 23:12 <wolfspraul> then boot Nano again, with that -root.ubi file on the microSD card
2010-06-21 23:13 <neil_> wolfspraul: ok.  doing
2010-06-21 23:13 <wolfspraul> then after you booted, you go into command line and run "ubiformat /dev/mtd2 -f -root.ubi"
2010-06-21 23:13 <wolfspraul> and "ubiformat /dev/mtd3" (that's the empty 1.5 GB data partition to speed up boot times for now)
2010-06-21 23:14 <wolfspraul> so basically we have u-boot in mtd0 (already working), rootfs in mtd2 (see whether ubiformat runs through), empty data partition in mtd3 (also let's see what ubiformat says)
2010-06-21 23:14 <wolfspraul> then the only thing missing will be mtd1, we have to get your /boot/uImage copied/flashed into /dev/mtd1
2010-06-21 23:14 <wolfspraul> maybe just cat or cp ?
2010-06-21 23:14 <wolfspraul> nebajoth: yes, that's what I meant
2010-06-21 23:15 <wolfspraul> how can neil_ get the /boot/uImage kernel into flashed into /dev/mtd1 ?
2010-06-21 23:15 <neil_> wolfspraul: not "dd"?
2010-06-21 23:15 <nebajoth> those are all in the pyneo tutorial
2010-06-21 23:15 <nebajoth> usbboot -c "boot"
2010-06-21 23:15 <nebajoth> usbboot -c "nprog 0 openwrt-xburst-u-boot.bin 0 0 -n"
2010-06-21 23:15 <nebajoth> usbboot -c "nprog 1024 openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-uImage.bin 0 0 -n"
2010-06-21 23:15 <nebajoth> usbboot -c "nprog 2048 debian-lenny.ubi 0 0 -n"
2010-06-21 23:15 <nebajoth> substituting
2010-06-21 23:15 <nebajoth> the openwrt ubi
2010-06-21 23:15 <wolfspraul> no no
2010-06-21 23:15 <wolfspraul> this is different here
2010-06-21 23:16 <nebajoth> :O
2010-06-21 23:16 <nebajoth> oh, from inside another booted distro?
2010-06-21 23:16 <wolfspraul> for some reason neil_ did not have luck flashing via usbboot
2010-06-21 23:16 <neil_> nebajoth: we've booted from SD
2010-06-21 23:16 <nebajoth> good lord
2010-06-21 23:16 <wolfspraul> but luckily at least the u-boot made it via usbboot
2010-06-21 23:16 <wolfspraul> so then we let that u-boot load the kernel & rootfs from microSD
2010-06-21 23:16 <wolfspraul> now we need to flash kernel & rootfs into NAND, from inside a running Linux system
2010-06-21 23:17 <wolfspraul> it's much more stable and trustworthy anyway
2010-06-21 23:17 <wolfspraul> this is how I always reflash the rootfs, never via usbboot
2010-06-21 23:17 <wolfspraul> I normally do u-boot & kernel via usbboot, then rootfs via microSD
2010-06-21 23:17 <wolfspraul> also allows better parallelization (I can use 6 or 8 microSD cards)
2010-06-21 23:18 <wolfspraul> but I've never done the kernel from inside, that's why I need help
2010-06-21 23:18 <wolfspraul> maybe just dd/cp/cat, maybe some mtd-utils utility?
2010-06-21 23:19 <wolfspraul> neil_: let's try the rootfs with ubiformat first, see whether ubiformat says anything unusual
2010-06-21 23:19 <neil_> wolfspraul: I guess we can get rootfs going first though
2010-06-21 23:19 <wolfspraul> I still want to make sure all is good with your NanoNote and the NAND chip
2010-06-21 23:19 <neil_> wolfspraul: ninja
2010-06-21 23:19 <wolfspraul> yes totally
2010-06-21 23:19 <wolfspraul> the ubiformat will do a lot of checks and treat the NAND chip properly
2010-06-21 23:19 <wolfspraul> much much better than the hacked-together stuff running inside usbboot
2010-06-21 23:20 <neil_> wolfspraul: ok, booted. how do I get a terminal?
2010-06-21 23:20 <wolfspraul> ctrl-alt-f1
2010-06-21 23:20 <wolfspraul> (ctrl-alt-f5 will get you back to graphical)
2010-06-21 23:21 <neil_> wolfspraul: smart.  just like desktop linux
2010-06-21 23:21 <urandom_> this flashing from microSD stuff should be addet to the wiki
2010-06-21 23:21 <neil_> urandom_: I'll keep the IRC log and have a go at that if you don't mind
2010-06-21 23:21 <urandom_> ok
2010-06-21 23:22 <urandom_> and you dont need to keep it we have archives
2010-06-21 23:22 <urandom_> http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/index.html
2010-06-21 23:24 <wolfspraul> hmm, mtd-utils has a 'flashcp' command, maybe use that to copy the uImage to /dev/mtd1 ?
2010-06-21 23:25 <nebajoth> cat /proc/mtd
2010-06-21 23:25 <nebajoth> there's the three partitions
2010-06-21 23:26 <wolfspraul> should be 4 now
2010-06-21 23:26 <nebajoth> 4 on mine
2010-06-21 23:26 <nebajoth> er
2010-06-21 23:26 <nebajoth> 3
2010-06-21 23:26 <wolfspraul> but we need a command to do 'the right thing', i.e. to copy the uImage to /dev/mtd1, not assuming uImage contains any OOB data, and skipping bad blocks if necessary
2010-06-21 23:27 <wolfspraul> there's another command 'nandwrite'
2010-06-21 23:27 <nebajoth> eah
2010-06-21 23:27 <nebajoth> yeah
2010-06-21 23:27 <nebajoth> its nandwrite
2010-06-21 23:28 <nebajoth> look at the first codeblock here: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardNAND
2010-06-21 23:28 <nebajoth> under X-Loader
2010-06-21 23:28 <nebajoth> nand unlock
2010-06-21 23:28 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-21 23:28 <wolfspraul> I googled a bit people seem to use flashcp
2010-06-21 23:28 <nebajoth> etc
2010-06-21 23:29 <nebajoth> but this uses the exact kind of command line structure
2010-06-21 23:29 <nebajoth> as usbboot
2010-06-21 23:29 <nebajoth> that seems like a good sign
2010-06-21 23:29 <neil_> wolfspraul: mtd2 done.  no apparent error.  lots of output
2010-06-21 23:29 <nebajoth> that does look cool though
2010-06-21 23:30 <nebajoth> flashcp
2010-06-21 23:30 <wolfspraul> yeah, u are right they say 'nandwrite -p'
2010-06-21 23:30 <wolfspraul> maybe the same?
2010-06-21 23:30 <wolfspraul> http://book.opensourceproject.org.cn/embedded/embeddedprime/opensource/0136130550/ch10lev1sec4.html
2010-06-21 23:30 <wolfspraul> they use flashcp
2010-06-21 23:30 <neil_> wolfspraul: when doing mtd3: 1 of 3568 eraseblocks contain non-ubifs data
2010-06-21 23:30 <wolfspraul> neil_: the good news is, you cannot break anything! :-)
2010-06-21 23:31 <wolfspraul> hmm, don't know what that means
2010-06-21 23:31 <nebajoth> that's a lot more intuitive
2010-06-21 23:31 <neil_> wolfspraul: :-)
2010-06-21 23:31 <nebajoth> acts like cp
2010-06-21 23:31 <wolfspraul> doesn't sound scary
2010-06-21 23:31 <wolfspraul> let's try to flash the kernel now
2010-06-21 23:31 <wolfspraul> neil_: what doyou want to try? flashcp or nandwrite? :-)
2010-06-21 23:31 <neil_> wolfspraul: I've got a coin here
2010-06-21 23:32 <wolfspraul> nandwrite -p /dev/mtd1 /boot/uImage
2010-06-21 23:32 <wolfspraul> :-)
2010-06-21 23:32 <neil_> wolfspraul: shall I proceed with this mtd3 format despite the warning?
2010-06-21 23:32 <wolfspraul> sure
2010-06-21 23:32 <wolfspraul> proceed
2010-06-21 23:33 <wolfspraul> there may be some options in ubiformat to nuke old erase counters/OOB data
2010-06-21 23:33 <neil_> wolfspraul: only 0 of 3568 have have valid erase counter.  is that a worry?
2010-06-21 23:33 <nebajoth> wolfspraul will mail you another if it breaks
2010-06-21 23:34 <wolfspraul> maybe we should nuke everything
2010-06-21 23:34 <wolfspraul> no it's not a worry
2010-06-21 23:34 <wolfspraul> we are formatting
2010-06-21 23:34 <wolfspraul> ideally in NAND you always want to carry forward old data, like erase counters
2010-06-21 23:34 <neil_> wolfspraul: sorry, just not used to so much output from UN*X commands
2010-06-21 23:34 <neil_> wolfspraul: ah, makes sense now
2010-06-21 23:34 <wolfspraul> but on the Nano, we are not in an ideal world yet
2010-06-21 23:35 <wolfspraul> bugs are fixed all over the place constantly
2010-06-21 23:35 <wolfspraul> even if you run 'ubiformat -h' and look at the example, see the second one :-)
2010-06-21 23:35 <neil_> wolfspraul: no other warnings.  mtd3 done.
2010-06-21 23:36 <nebajoth> wooooooop
2010-06-21 23:36 <wolfspraul> ubiformat -q -e : be quiet and force erase counter to 0
2010-06-21 23:36 <wolfspraul> nebajoth: these commands cannot damage anything. impossible.
2010-06-21 23:36 <neil_> I'll need to put uImage on the SD before nandwrite won't I?
2010-06-21 23:36 <wolfspraul> assuming you have no valuable data in NAND
2010-06-21 23:36 <wolfspraul> neil_: it should be there already, we booted from it
2010-06-21 23:36 <wolfspraul> try: nandwrite -p /dev/mtd1 /boot/uImage
2010-06-21 23:37 <neil_> wolfspraul: of course.  silly me
2010-06-21 23:37 <wolfspraul> we might even be able to reuse your rootfs and somehow uninize it into NAND, but I never tried that before
2010-06-21 23:37 <wolfspraul> ubinize
2010-06-21 23:37 <nebajoth> god I love this thing
2010-06-21 23:37 <wolfspraul> anyway, this is about getting your nano to work, not all sorts of experiments :-)
2010-06-21 23:38 <neil_> wolfspraul: done.
2010-06-21 23:38 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-21 23:38 <wolfspraul> alright
2010-06-21 23:38 <wolfspraul> 'halt'
2010-06-21 23:38 <wolfspraul> power on, don't press 'm', see what happens
2010-06-21 23:39 <neil_> oops.  lots of "Uncorrectable error occurred"
2010-06-21 23:39 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-21 23:39 <neil_> ND read from offset 400000 failed -77
2010-06-21 23:39 <wolfspraul> did u-boot load the kernel properly?
2010-06-21 23:40 <neil_> ERROR: can't get kernel image!
2010-06-21 23:40 <wolfspraul> ok
2010-06-21 23:40 <neil_> I guess not
2010-06-21 23:40 <wolfspraul> boot from microSD again
2010-06-21 23:40 <neil_> ok.  doing
2010-06-21 23:41 <wolfspraul> I'm trying the same thing on my Nano now
2010-06-21 23:41 <wolfspraul> wrote the kernel with nandwrite, rebooting...
2010-06-21 23:41 <neil_> this is very cool.  I planned to boot Debian from SD but I didn't plan on learning so much so fast
2010-06-21 23:42 <wolfspraul> ah yes
2010-06-21 23:42 <wolfspraul> uncorrectable error :-)
2010-06-21 23:42 <wolfspraul> scrolling down wildly for a while
2010-06-21 23:42 <neil_> that's it
2010-06-21 23:42 <wolfspraul> don't worry this has to do with the nandwrite
2010-06-21 23:42 <wolfspraul> let's try flashcp first
2010-06-21 23:42 <nebajoth> or offsets
2010-06-21 23:42 <wolfspraul> trial and error for a while, don't we love the Chinese ! :-)
2010-06-21 23:42 <wolfspraul> knowledge can come later :-)
2010-06-21 23:43 <neil_> ok, ready for flashcp command line
2010-06-21 23:43 <wolfspraul> just try you are ahead of me
2010-06-21 23:43 <wolfspraul> only watch that you focus on /dev/mtd1 :-)
2010-06-21 23:43 <nebajoth> first
2010-06-21 23:43 <wolfspraul> mtd0 is our precious u-boot, let's not loose it
2010-06-21 23:44 <wolfspraul> mtd2 is the rootfs
2010-06-21 23:44 <nebajoth> flash_erase
2010-06-21 23:44 <wolfspraul> sure why not
2010-06-21 23:44 <wolfspraul> good idea
2010-06-21 23:44 <nebajoth> flash_erase /dev/mtd3?
2010-06-21 23:44 <wolfspraul> just please watch out - mtd1 only
2010-06-21 23:44 <neil_> I'm used to double checking which devices I'm formatting but good point
2010-06-21 23:44 <nebajoth> oh
2010-06-21 23:44 <nebajoth> mtd1
2010-06-21 23:44 <nebajoth> flash_erase /dev/mtd1
2010-06-21 23:45 <neil_> nebajoth: good idea to do that before flashcp?
2010-06-21 23:45 <wolfspraul> flashcp seems to assume page-aligned data
2010-06-21 23:45 <nebajoth> neil_: I think so
2010-06-21 23:45 <nebajoth> especially since you've run nand write
2010-06-21 23:46 <nebajoth> then
2010-06-21 23:46 <neil_> nebajoth: ok, I'll try that first then
2010-06-21 23:46 <nebajoth> flashcp /path/to/your/uImage /dev/mtd1
2010-06-21 23:46 <wolfspraul> nebajoth: flashcp doesn't work for me
2010-06-21 23:46 <wolfspraul> complains about not page-aligned data
2010-06-21 23:47 <nebajoth> perhaps because of the nand write you both just ran?
2010-06-21 23:47 <neil_> flash_erase only erased 512KB for me I think
2010-06-21 23:47 <wolfspraul> yeah
2010-06-21 23:47 <neil_> is that the size of mtd1?
2010-06-21 23:48 <wolfspraul> you can try flash_erase /dev/mtd1 0 8
2010-06-21 23:48 <neil_> that's nailed it, thanks
2010-06-21 23:49 <nebajoth> woop
2010-06-21 23:49 <neil_> flashcp says "Attempt to write not page aligned data" though
2010-06-21 23:50 <wolfspraul> hmm
2010-06-21 23:50 <wolfspraul> I just did nandwrite -p again, and now it boots!
2010-06-21 23:50 <wolfspraul> maybe the flash_erase helped
2010-06-21 23:51 <neil_> we didn't erase before nandwrite though did we?
2010-06-21 23:51 <wolfspraul> no
2010-06-21 23:51 <wolfspraul> try the nandwrite -p again
2010-06-21 23:53 <neil_> I think that's nailed it.  got OpenWRT logo
2010-06-21 23:53 <neil_> got desktop now
2010-06-21 23:53 <wolfspraul> he. puh. finally.
2010-06-21 23:54 <nebajoth> nandwrite works?
2010-06-21 23:54 <wolfspraul> I think your Nano is all fine.
2010-06-21 23:54 <wolfspraul> something is up with USB, for now I just blame usbboot :-)
2010-06-21 23:54 <wolfspraul> nebajoth: nandwrite after flash_erase did it
2010-06-21 23:54 <neil_> cat /etc/VERSION  2010-06-15
2010-06-21 23:55 <neil_> it could also be my seven-year old laptop that only supports USB 1.1, although I've never had any other USB-related trouble with it
2010-06-21 23:55 <wolfspraul> yes, possible
2010-06-21 23:55 <wolfspraul> because of usbboot
2010-06-21 23:55 <wolfspraul> can you try to ssh into the Nano?
2010-06-21 23:55 <wolfspraul> let's make sure USB works now
2010-06-21 23:55 <wolfspraul> IP is 192.168.254.101
2010-06-21 23:56 <neil_> oops. I just reset the IP to 172.16.0.2
2010-06-21 23:56 <wolfspraul> sure why not
2010-06-21 23:56 <wolfspraul> just check whether you can ssh in
2010-06-21 23:56 <neil_> host key has changed so I guess it works
2010-06-21 23:56 <wolfspraul> ok then
2010-06-21 23:57 <nebajoth> that needs to be wikified
2010-06-21 23:57 <wolfspraul> be a bit patient in the first few days, there are always some quirks that need to be understood
2010-06-21 23:57 <wolfspraul> meanwhile we are working hard everywhere to make everything smoother and more solid
2010-06-21 23:57 <wolfspraul> your feedback helps a lot!
2010-06-21 23:57 <neil_> Backfire
2010-06-21 23:57 <nebajoth> for me, the making things work
2010-06-21 23:57 <nebajoth> is the fun part
2010-06-21 23:57 <wolfspraul> and I learnt how to do flash_erase/nandwrite for the Linux kernel now. another reason to use usbboot less :-)
2010-06-21 23:57 <nebajoth> buying a NN was really just like buying membership in a club of people who think the same things are fun that I do
2010-06-21 23:58 <nebajoth> which is pretty epic
2010-06-21 23:58 <neil_> bizarre that we needed to use flash_erase even after doing a whole-device erase to begin with
2010-06-21 23:58 <wolfspraul> no that's OK
2010-06-21 23:58 <neil_> actually, we tried to use usbboot to write the kernel.  it must have written something
2010-06-21 23:58 <wolfspraul> NAND is tricky, all pieces of software need to be well synced with each other
2010-06-21 23:58 <wolfspraul> and they are not
2010-06-21 23:59 <wolfspraul> in terms of where/how they store bad block info, eec data (different eec algorithms), etc.
2010-06-21 23:59 <neil_> pretty cool that you were able to sort it all out over IRC though
2010-06-21 23:59 <wolfspraul> also in general free software is not very strong on NAND related things
2010-06-21 23:59 <neil_> big thanks to you all.  I now have a working NN with the latest software
2010-06-21 23:59 <wolfspraul> I am glad we have mtd-utils and ubi-utils now, they are fixing lots of bugs too