2010-06-09 00:05 rafa: good call 2010-06-09 00:05 rafa: going to install that now 2010-06-09 00:13 hey 2010-06-09 00:13 question for the room 2010-06-09 00:13 what did you name yours? 2010-06-09 00:16 nebajoth: I am using it in Jlime 2010-06-09 00:17 nebajoth: if we are happy with this I will add it to rootfs surely. 2010-06-09 00:33 can you 2010-06-09 00:33 rafa 2010-06-09 00:33 explain to me 2010-06-09 00:33 the attraction of Jlime? 2010-06-09 00:33 is it particularly lightweight? 2010-06-09 00:33 does it have a decent package manager? 2010-06-09 01:18 what is the relationship between sharism and qi hardware? 2010-06-09 01:24 nebajoth: jlime has ben proved to work on sistems half as powerfull than BNN,  16MB RAM 133Mhz Sh3 proccessor (HP Jornada 680) 2010-06-09 01:27 sharims is a manufacturer a company, qi hardware is a comunity a group of entitities (companies, universities, individuals...) with the common goal of produce a 100% Copyleft Hardware (objective not achieved yet, but we are on it) and sharism has founded and is part of that community. 2010-06-09 01:43 thanks tuxbrain 2010-06-09 01:43 I appreciate the clarification 2010-06-09 01:43 want to sign up for the site? 2010-06-09 01:43 second user? 2010-06-09 01:46 what is handle 2010-06-09 01:46 nick name 2010-06-09 01:46 wait 2010-06-09 01:46 don't sign up 2010-06-09 01:46 I meant to remove that 2010-06-09 01:47 hmm 2010-06-09 01:47 it won't let me delete it 2010-06-09 01:48 its the only one it won't let me delete 2010-06-09 01:48 so I guess we keep it 2010-06-09 01:48 but I changed what it was called 2010-06-09 01:48 to "Online Name" 2010-06-09 01:48 to distinguish it from "Real Name" which is optional 2010-06-09 01:48 go ahead and sign up 2010-06-09 01:48 I'm still configuring stuff 2010-06-09 01:48 but it would be good to get two users into the system so I can test friends and such 2010-06-09 01:48 and maybe start populating the activity stream :D 2010-06-09 01:51 done, waiting for the mail to confirm :) by the way, I have two nanos glamdril and stinger :P 2010-06-09 01:52 oh shoot 2010-06-09 01:52 two 2010-06-09 01:52 sweet tolkien names though 2010-06-09 01:52 um 2010-06-09 01:52 how to handle 2 2010-06-09 01:52 I guess , 2010-06-09 01:53 I changed the field to "Hostname of your Ben(s)" 2010-06-09 01:53 just in case you are not the only one 2010-06-09 02:02 xdpirate: http://www.nanohacks.org 2010-06-09 02:02 create a user 2010-06-09 02:02 join the groups I made 2010-06-09 02:02 make your own groups if you've got some good ideas 2010-06-09 02:02 add me as friend :D 2010-06-09 02:03 nebajoth: good job. 2010-06-09 02:09 tuxbrain_away: did the registration email not arrive? 2010-06-09 02:09 I may need to check my email server settings 2010-06-09 02:09 it got delivered to my gmail ok 2010-06-09 02:09 so I assumed it was good 2010-06-09 02:09 xiangfu: thanks 2010-06-09 02:10 just trying to help :D 2010-06-09 02:12 nebajoth: I post it in my QQ group. hope somebody will join. 2010-06-09 02:12 nebajoth, lol wup 2010-06-09 02:12 nebajoth, lol sup 2010-06-09 02:12 nice site 2010-06-09 02:12 :D 2010-06-09 02:12 yay for buddypress 2010-06-09 02:13 "the hostname you gave your ben" but it haven't arrived yet =( 2010-06-09 02:13 yeah 2010-06-09 02:13 pretend you haven't chosen the name already 2010-06-09 02:13 go ahead 2010-06-09 02:14 haha I made it required 2010-06-09 02:14 I should probably make it optional 2010-06-09 02:15 ok 2010-06-09 02:15 its no longer required, xdpirate 2010-06-09 02:15 fill it in later :P 2010-06-09 02:15 too late 2010-06-09 02:15 :P 2010-06-09 02:15 rofl 2010-06-09 02:15 I knew it. 2010-06-09 02:15 I frigging knew it. 2010-06-09 02:15 can't play a player 2010-06-09 02:15 mofo 2010-06-09 02:15 luls 2010-06-09 02:16 um 2010-06-09 02:16 i can't log in 2010-06-09 02:16 registration email 2010-06-09 02:16 I'll check the mailqueue 2010-06-09 02:16 you should put that on the 'success' page that you need to confirm account 2010-06-09 02:17 I thought it was 2010-06-09 02:17 in a little dropdown thing 2010-06-09 02:18 how the heck did this thing send me email earlier 2010-06-09 02:18 did you get an email? 2010-06-09 02:18 y 2010-06-09 02:18 oh snap 2010-06-09 02:18 i'm activated now 2010-06-09 02:18 wordpress is bomb 2010-06-09 02:18 I'm used to everything being hard 2010-06-09 02:19 FRIENDSHIP REQUESTED 2010-06-09 02:21 can you create a gaming-on-the-Ben group? 2010-06-09 02:21 I've not personal interest in moderating that 2010-06-09 02:21 but you seem to be into that kind of thing, judging from your dev blog 2010-06-09 02:22 lol k 2010-06-09 02:23 awesome. 2010-06-09 02:23 thank you 2010-06-09 02:24 can haz mention of specific nanonote model you target? 2010-06-09 02:24 we will eventually haz Ya content 2010-06-09 02:25 STYLE GUIDELINES 2010-06-09 02:25 NANOHACKS IS A TYRANNY 2010-06-09 02:25 Down with nebajoth! 2010-06-09 02:26 xdpirate: what is the status of your Red/Blue Pokedex? 2010-06-09 02:29 nebajoth, it's now a Gen 1, 2 and 3 PokeDex :3 2010-06-09 02:30 it's ready for release basically, i just need to add Gen 4 pokeymanz 2010-06-09 02:31 you'll carry it around with your handheld gaming systems? 2010-06-09 02:31 neat little satchel? 2010-06-09 02:31 pockets for each one? 2010-06-09 02:31 hells yes, i bought an nds carry bag that'll hold both my Dingoo and my NN 2010-06-09 02:31 ahahah 2010-06-09 02:31 you should get a custom made one 2010-06-09 02:31 meh 2010-06-09 02:32 pick the fabric, fit it to you 2010-06-09 02:32 look at this 2010-06-09 02:32 http://www.focalprice.com/detail_GN002B.html 2010-06-09 02:32 it's freaking huge 2010-06-09 02:32 i can use it as a man-purse 2010-06-09 02:32 its huge 2010-06-09 02:32 but its not sexy 2010-06-09 02:32 it can carry both my dingoo and my nanonote, sd card cases, usb cables, everything 2010-06-09 02:33 utility 2010-06-09 02:33 definitely 2010-06-09 02:33 beauty? 2010-06-09 02:33 not so much. 2010-06-09 02:33 who cares, it's not like i'm going to go flail my man-purse about in public 2010-06-09 02:33 pfft 2010-06-09 02:33 clearly not as vain as I am 2010-06-09 02:33 clearly not ;) 2010-06-09 02:33 :D 2010-06-09 02:34 mine is mostly a vim machine 2010-06-09 02:34 vim, cmus, and remind 2010-06-09 02:55 who here has debian installed and working? 2010-06-09 02:56 can someone pastebin the contents of their /etc/default/keyboard from a working debian install? 2010-06-09 02:56 I think I b0rked mine 2010-06-09 02:56 hell yeah i'm user #4! :) 2010-06-09 02:56 :D kyak 2010-06-09 02:57 FRIENDSHIP REQUESTED 2010-06-09 02:59 ACCEPTED 2010-06-09 03:18 HOORAY 2010-06-09 03:19 I DON"T HAVE ZARRO FRIENDS 2010-06-09 03:23 mmm will be anyone not friend of someone? ;) 2010-06-09 03:25 i will not be not a friend for noone 2010-06-09 03:25 :) 2010-06-09 03:26 I think so tuxbrain 2010-06-09 03:27 I think certain people won't get along 2010-06-09 03:27 I don like admin, he is in a lot of sites and communities and only and he use to be too bossy in any community 2010-06-09 03:27 and that if the site gets big enough 2010-06-09 03:27 hahaha 2010-06-09 03:27 inorite? 2010-06-09 03:27 he is such a smelly jerk 2010-06-09 03:27 I hate admin 2010-06-09 03:27 he constantly kicks me off game servers too 2010-06-09 03:27 I don't know how he keeps getting root privileges 2010-06-09 03:27 he must be a crazy good hacker 2010-06-09 03:28 to root all those game servers. 2010-06-09 03:28 like that. 2010-06-09 03:28 .. 2010-06-09 03:28 I'm tired 2010-06-09 03:28 I'm going to bed. 2010-06-09 03:28 good night 2010-06-09 03:28 admin is a good friend of No Artist 2010-06-09 03:28 ok you have worth it dude, ops he gone, he is really tired 2010-06-09 03:29 who is well-known for his hit "No Track Name" 2010-06-09 03:29 hahaahahaah 2010-06-09 03:29 yeah this is the really universal artist 2010-06-09 03:30 his song is so long he had spreaded in pieaces all over the net 2010-06-09 03:30 the thing is: every time i listen to his song, i find something new 2010-06-09 03:30 you know, like this is the first time is lesten to it? 2010-06-09 03:31 the duration of this song is also different sometimes.. but i guess i have to blame those lame rippers 2010-06-09 03:37 kyak yes I know what you mean the  problem is he suffer a lot of plagiarism, a lot of times I found his caracteristich sound in a lot of other artist... a shame 2010-06-09 03:37 oh! you reminded me of a question i had 2010-06-09 03:38 socrates call it maieutics :P 2010-06-09 03:39 can copyleft hardware be called as a "GPL licensed hardware"? In this case, when other manufacturer takes NN specs and modifies it, and then sells their new device, must they release this as "copyleft" hardware, too? 2010-06-09 03:39 ops sorry this is if you remember the answer 2010-06-09 03:40 wiki says something different about maieutics :) 2010-06-09 03:41 yeah, something like this.. maieutics is asking questions to a person how already knows the answer, but doesn't know about it :) 2010-06-09 03:41 s/how/who 2010-06-09 03:42 so let start, :P, you know about Creative Commons Share alike licence? 2010-06-09 03:42 mm, not yet. I can Google, though :) 2010-06-09 03:43 not need to, is the the viral equivalent for other content than code to GPL 2010-06-09 03:45 the exact licence equivalent is CC Attribution Share Alike, you can use this contents with the restrictions you should mention the source and share the ralized work under same licence. 2010-06-09 03:47 ok, i see a phrase "you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one" 2010-06-09 03:47 so production tips, eschemas, specifications, etc, etc on Copyleft Hardware is realeased under that licence so ... damn, I'm not socrates, the anwers is : yes of course 2010-06-09 03:47 so if i wish, i may NOT distribute it 2010-06-09 03:48 i'm reading here http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/ 2010-06-09 03:48 i'm free to share, but i'm not obliged to 2010-06-09 03:49 but the hardware it self a result of the work so if you plan to create that hardware for others you should distribute the info :) 2010-06-09 03:49 "Noncommercial  You may not use this work for commercial purposes." hm.. this is confusing 2010-06-09 03:50 not this is another licences 2010-06-09 03:50 there are various CC variants 2010-06-09 03:50 i see 2010-06-09 03:51 what is the exact license under which NN is distributed? 2010-06-09 03:51 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/  - this one? 2010-06-09 03:52 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ yes 2010-06-09 03:54 "you msut attribute the work" - what does that mean? 2010-06-09 03:58 you must indicate the source of the content  material your work is based on 2010-06-09 04:09 then the answer to my question is "yes, other manufacturer can take NN specs, modify it, and then he MAY (or may not) distribute the resulting work" 2010-06-09 04:10 if he not distribute they work they infinge the licence 2010-06-09 04:10 am i right? 2010-06-09 04:10 but there is a "may" in license 2010-06-09 04:10 it's not an obligation 2010-06-09 04:11 if they manufacture the device, they are distributing his job 2010-06-09 04:12 ok, but the question is if they are required to fully open the specs of their device 2010-06-09 04:12 like it was for original device, NN 2010-06-09 04:12 ok they can manufacture and just keep it in his selfs for ever 2010-06-09 04:13 i didn't understand 2010-06-09 04:13 just joking 2010-06-09 04:14 is the case of manufacturation without distribute , so it keep it on his wharehause. 2010-06-09 04:14 that's why i didn't understand :) 2010-06-09 04:15 so let's say that manufacturing = further distributing, in most cases 2010-06-09 04:16 are they required according to the license to provide the full "source code" of their modified device? 2010-06-09 04:16 or they can laugh in your face instead? 2010-06-09 04:17 wolfgang:help! a clever guy is asking interesting questions! 2010-06-09 04:18 interesting questions? maybe! clever guy? not at all! :) 2010-06-09 04:18 clever than me :) 2010-06-09 04:18 not such meritorious indeed 2010-06-09 04:19 no-no, your brain is so tux, i can't compete :) 2010-06-09 04:24 ok, wolfgang is out so I will try to do my best :) schematics are also distributed under that licence, to create a modified product you need to modify the schematics, so produt is builded upon the schematisc if you distribute the product you should distribute the schematics and due you distribute the schematics you should attribute the orignal schematics your work is based . TADA! 2010-06-09 04:27 affining a little more:schematics are also distributed under that licence, to create a modified product you need to modify the schematics,  produt is builded upon the schematisc you modify that inherits the share alike and attribution, if you distribute the product you should point to your own schematics as source  and due you distribute the schematics you should attribute the orignal schematics your work is based . TATATADA! 2010-06-09 04:30 kyak: what is your question? 2010-06-09 04:30 again, i MAY distribute schematics which is based on original share-like licensed schematics 2010-06-09 04:31 i as well may NOT distribute it 2010-06-09 04:31 is that right? 2010-06-09 04:31 kyak: can you tell me in sequence what you plan to do? 2010-06-09 04:31 1. you take existing schematics/gerber/bom/whatever 2010-06-09 04:31 2. you produce your own product, and sell it 2010-06-09 04:32 3. your product is exactly the same as the current one, or with improvements? 2010-06-09 04:32 and then what? 2010-06-09 04:32 wolfspraul: i have no plans at all :) this is just a theory. but you described it right 2010-06-09 04:32 sure it's theory 2010-06-09 04:32 :-) 2010-06-09 04:32 3. my product is a modified version of original product 2010-06-09 04:32 is your product exactly the same or with improvements? 2010-06-09 04:32 ok, but you want to keep your improvements secret? 2010-06-09 04:33 so when I email you "tell me more about what you improved", you just won't reply 2010-06-09 04:33 is that what you are saying? 2010-06-09 04:33 yes. or even better, keep the whole device secret 2010-06-09 04:33 ok, so I don't know much about ShareAlike enforcement 2010-06-09 04:34 the FSF is very much interested in GPL enforcement, that's why they like gpl-violations.org so much 2010-06-09 04:34 I don't know how much Creative Commons is interested in ShareAlike enforcement, you would need to ask them 2010-06-09 04:34 we are product people 2010-06-09 04:34 we just put our 'stuff' under a cc-by-sa license because we _think_ it will help to remind people of what kind of behavior we consider cool, and we consider uncool 2010-06-09 04:35 a question is IF the license is violated in this case 2010-06-09 04:35 is it enforceable? is it enforceable in this particular case (hardware manufacturing), don't know 2010-06-09 04:35 yeah 2010-06-09 04:35 need to ask Creative COmmons 2010-06-09 04:35 they created the SHareAlike license and one would hope that they want to make it a strong license 2010-06-09 04:35 the FSF is proud when they win some court case where the GPL plays a rol 2010-06-09 04:35 role 2010-06-09 04:35 but i though that the "may" word in the license is pretty much explanatory 2010-06-09 04:36 ok but it's a legal question 2010-06-09 04:36 ask Creative Commons 2010-06-09 04:36 are there any cases of known ShareAlike infringement, and resulting court victories? 2010-06-09 04:36 don't know 2010-06-09 04:36 the GPL is very much court proven 2010-06-09 04:36 ok, thank you both guys :) 2010-06-09 04:36 but let me also add my 2cents 2010-06-09 04:36 GPL afaik can go suck somebody's balls in Russia 2010-06-09 04:37 very possible 2010-06-09 04:37 I am writing to you from China 2010-06-09 04:37 Justice Ministry is not accepting GPL (or something like this) 2010-06-09 04:37 but originally i had this idea because of the following 2010-06-09 04:37 kyak I'm CC member I will forward you question to the CC, I also curious on the answer 2010-06-09 04:38 so first of all, most people that spend their whole time trying to find out how they can become good parasites will never ever achieve anything 2010-06-09 04:38 I think it messes with your brain 2010-06-09 04:38 I know many creative people, and they seriously never ever even spend 1 second thinking about this kind of thing. 2010-06-09 04:38 they just create cool shit 2010-06-09 04:38 there are a lot of companies in China that steal here and there, from each other and from everyone. They can take NN as a starting point 2010-06-09 04:38 so for business people, also the question really goes the other way round - who has the balls to actually produce something? 2010-06-09 04:39 I think any sort of GPL or ShareAlike infringement is one the lesser concerns you have in that case 2010-06-09 04:39 nobody will do it 2010-06-09 04:39 and if they would at least I wouldn't care 2010-06-09 04:39 do you? 2010-06-09 04:39 I focus on making great products. I wake up, start working, start having fun. 2010-06-09 04:39 why wouldn't they do it? 2010-06-09 04:40 developing a device is quite an effort 2010-06-09 04:40 in this case it was done free for them 2010-06-09 04:40 I put my stuff under GPL and CC-BY-SA because it makes me feel good, and I hope to encourage others to do the same. 2010-06-09 04:40 well like you said in China everything is 'stolen' anyway 2010-06-09 04:40 let's put it like this 2010-06-09 04:40 actually it's not stolen as this has a negative implication, but in China it is just natural to reuse things 2010-06-09 04:41 putting your device under open license makes it avaialble for legal stealing.. 2010-06-09 04:41 ouch 2010-06-09 04:41 very twisted thinking 2010-06-09 04:41 in other case, they would hust illegally stole it from you 2010-06-09 04:41 I hope it makes people feel joy and fun and contribute. 2010-06-09 04:41 yes it does 2010-06-09 04:41 all this stealing stuff is just not my world 2010-06-09 04:41 i'm speaking about "other side" :) 2010-06-09 04:41 I like those licenses because they encourage sharing. 2010-06-09 04:41 sharing not stealing 2010-06-09 04:42 let's stop stealing from each other, let's start sharing 2010-06-09 04:42 much better 2010-06-09 04:42 :-) 2010-06-09 04:42 where is the 'other side'? 2010-06-09 04:42 who? 2010-06-09 04:42 parasite companies.. who get all you development work for free, put nothing in it, just produce it, sell and profit 2010-06-09 04:43 who is that? are they successful? 2010-06-09 04:43 it depends on device 2010-06-09 04:44 bottom line - this doesn't exist 2010-06-09 04:45 i'm into car security systems.. so we have this system, let's call it X. it's proprietary and closed. We've put a lot of development effort into it. Now we produce it and profit. The other day, another company is stealing from us, and selling much cheaper (because they don't have to put development cost inside the price) 2010-06-09 04:45 at least not in the way that you envision it 2010-06-09 04:45 and they PROFIT 2010-06-09 04:45 is this your theory or did this happen to you? 2010-06-09 04:45 IF we had shared it 2010-06-09 04:45 IF 2010-06-09 04:45 I really doubt all that. 2010-06-09 04:45 they wouldn't have croseed the law 2010-06-09 04:45 so we would have helped them 2010-06-09 04:45 be bold, let's start sharng 2010-06-09 04:45 sharing 2010-06-09 04:45 this is a real story, btw. 2010-06-09 04:46 sharing is better 2010-06-09 04:46 normally what gets stolen from you are customers 2010-06-09 04:46 often in the form of your competitor hiring your sales people from you 2010-06-09 04:46 those are nasty things 2010-06-09 04:46 sure.. this are lost customers.. and lost money 2010-06-09 04:47 did you share your technology? 2010-06-09 04:47 I don't get it. 2010-06-09 04:47 how was it stolen? 2010-06-09 04:47 is your story a hypothetical story or real one? 2010-06-09 04:47 if I had a real business, and someone wanted to hurt me, they would go for the money. They would try to hire my sales people. Maybe my marketing people. 2010-06-09 04:47 we can only guess. maybe from the factory in China, maybe from our own company. Who knows? 2010-06-09 04:47 the real one 2010-06-09 04:48 so suddently this other company shows up and they have a product that has the same technology as yours 2010-06-09 04:48 so i just hope you understand me 2010-06-09 04:48 right? 2010-06-09 04:48 right 2010-06-09 04:48 and then your customers start buying from the other company 2010-06-09 04:48 exact clone 2010-06-09 04:48 hmm 2010-06-09 04:48 isn't that a good way to proove that you should go open in the first place 2010-06-09 04:48 yes, our potential customers are byuing it 2010-06-09 04:48 because it's cheaper 2010-06-09 04:48 that proprietary doesn't work? 2010-06-09 04:48 maybe you focused on the wrong thing 2010-06-09 04:49 you focused on proprietary technology, but you actually weren't able to enforce/execute the closedness? 2010-06-09 04:49 imagine it would've been shared. what then? 2010-06-09 04:49 then you would have never made the decision to focus on the wrong thing in the first place (in that story) 2010-06-09 04:49 maybe you would have focused on lowest price first 2010-06-09 04:49 not on best (closed) technology, which then was stolen anyway 2010-06-09 04:49 that's another problem that secret was stolen 2010-06-09 04:49 if you believe in closed technology, you better close it well :-) 2010-06-09 04:50 agreed 2010-06-09 04:50 yes but that's what I am saying 2010-06-09 04:50 you just didn't execute well 2010-06-09 04:50 if you believe in lock-down, you better have a strong lock! 2010-06-09 04:50 ok,ok 2010-06-09 04:50 the questions remains 2010-06-09 04:50 if it's broken, now you come to me, who does not believe in lock-down, and complain? 2010-06-09 04:50 I believe in open 2010-06-09 04:50 imagine it would've been shared. what then? 2010-06-09 04:50 so I can focus on customer satisfaction and lowest cost from day 1. 2010-06-09 04:50 I don't think what has happened to you can happen to me. 2010-06-09 04:51 I already said it - then you would not have focused on the closedness of your product in the first place. 2010-06-09 04:51 maybe you would have focused on customer satisfaction and lowest price. 2010-06-09 04:51 and then if that other company comes they cannot steal your business 2010-06-09 04:51 I am indeed not focusing on the closedness of what I build. 2010-06-09 04:51 it's open and shared from day 1 2010-06-09 04:51 (although not 100% yet, we are working on that) 2010-06-09 04:52 i'll tell you what would happen. We would've lost profit from the day 1. Not the the day Y, when it was stolen. And besides, the parasite company couldn't be sued in this case 2010-06-09 04:52 ah, so you are suing them now and you believe that will recover your losses? 2010-06-09 04:52 then all should be fine 2010-06-09 04:53 if you would have lost profits from day 1, you would have done things differently from day 1 2010-06-09 04:53 that's what we are doing here at copyleft hardware 2010-06-09 04:53 the loss cannot be recovered.. in this case, it's all lost already 2010-06-09 04:53 do you think the lawsuit will help you recover it?/ 2010-06-09 04:53 NO 2010-06-09 04:53 ok 2010-06-09 04:53 maybe you should have done the technology open from day 1 :-) 2010-06-09 04:53 there is no lawsuit, btw 2010-06-09 04:54 we just have legal rights to stop this shit at customs 2010-06-09 04:54 that's all 2010-06-09 04:54 oh 2010-06-09 04:54 hopefully that works out for you 2010-06-09 04:54 customs is often in the middle of such conflicts and quite often to many arguments (read: bribes) 2010-06-09 04:55 anyway, go open 2010-06-09 04:55 that's the way to go 2010-06-09 04:55 I think 2010-06-09 04:55 if you plan to produce any of our copyleft hardware stuff, please do so 2010-06-09 04:55 i think nn is not cloned by some noname chiness manufacturer only because it's not popular.. there's no profit 2010-06-09 04:55 it you don't share your improvements back, I think at least socially that's very uncool 2010-06-09 04:56 wait, someone's clonning the nanonote? 2010-06-09 04:56 whether we can force you legally into anything is then a question for GPL/CC-BY-SA and the local legal system 2010-06-09 04:56 nah 2010-06-09 04:56 all just 'what if' 2010-06-09 04:56 ah 2010-06-09 04:56 I would love someone to clone it. 2010-06-09 04:56 I think it will take a few more years. 2010-06-09 04:56 there is the 1GB chinese version already :) 2010-06-09 04:57 I'm all easy here, I am a 'noname chinese manufacturer' 2010-06-09 04:57 I could easily beat them in price even. 2010-06-09 04:57 you guys don't know how lazy and greedy chinese companies actually are. 2010-06-09 04:57 this is the thing.. there is always a "chinese version" avaialable (of course only popular devices) 2010-06-09 04:57 but since gpl is violated whole the time in china, i guess it's good that you have something in case nn hardware get's cloned 2010-06-09 04:57 < wolfspraul> you guys don't know how lazy and greedy chinese companies actually are. - we know 2010-06-09 04:58 kyak: I guess you problem is that you cannot beat them in price. 2010-06-09 04:58 sure we can't 2010-06-09 04:58 btw, how are the nn sales after the slashdot article? 2010-06-09 04:58 we put EFFORT in developemnt 2010-06-09 04:58 I can. 2010-06-09 04:58 they didn't 2010-06-09 04:58 we HAVE to compensate for these efforts in price 2010-06-09 04:58 do you understand it? 2010-06-09 04:58 zear: it's beautiful 2010-06-09 04:59 we sold about 70 or so 2010-06-09 04:59 sorry, dinner,.. be back :0 2010-06-09 04:59 david some more 2010-06-09 04:59 wolfspraul, wow, that's impressive :D 2010-06-09 04:59 zear: if you can help let's continue with blogs and stuff 2010-06-09 04:59 yes 2010-06-09 04:59 I'm a total believe in bottom-up, I am so happy about each individual sale. 2010-06-09 04:59 thanks wolfspraul, was a great meeting... 'awesome' ;-) 2010-06-09 05:00 zear: so total we sold about 750 to 800 now. 2010-06-09 05:00 bit hard to say some are always in stock here and there. 2010-06-09 05:00 but what's most important is the various hacking efforts that are in motion. 2010-06-09 05:00 and blogging 2010-06-09 05:00 good seeds 2010-06-09 05:00 OpenWrt, JLiMe, Debian, etc. 2010-06-09 05:00 so many things 2010-06-09 05:01 maybe gbraad will make some Fedora moves, now or later :-) 2010-06-09 05:01 zear: you have some large event in Poland this year, don't you? 2010-06-09 05:01 Wikimania? 2010-06-09 05:01 but i guess all that counts from financial side is that you get rid of the whole batch (how many units that is, 1000?) 2010-06-09 05:01 any chance we can be present there? 2010-06-09 05:01 we made 1000, yes 2010-06-09 05:01 i know about wikimania, but i rather won't be there 2010-06-09 05:01 no most important to me is to get good roots into the ground with the free model 2010-06-09 05:01 it's expensive, it's on the other side of the country, and i don't like wikipedia that much lately 2010-06-09 05:01 so 2.6.34 upstream effort is awesome 2010-06-09 05:02 I need to work on GPL licensed production testing software. that's a big piece that is still missing. 2010-06-09 05:03 how many of the thousand has been sold? 2010-06-09 05:03 750-800 2010-06-09 05:04 that's not bad 2010-06-09 05:04 they are forcing the grammatically incorrect, but pro-feminist forms 2010-06-09 05:04 need to make more soon, but also need to be careful because we are working towards Ya 2010-06-09 05:04 yeah 2010-06-09 05:04 i mean 2010-06-09 05:04 ya 2010-06-09 05:04 \pun 2010-06-09 05:04 the wikipedia guys, i mean 2010-06-09 05:04 i will show myself the door 2010-06-09 05:04 so ideally we don't run out of stock with Ben, and have exactly 0 on the day that we start selling Ya :-) 2010-06-09 05:05 but Ya is still at least 6-9 months out, and I enjoy the Ben ride right now 2010-06-09 05:05 with that I mean the emerging free software and content on it 2010-06-09 05:05 so want to let that grow some more 2010-06-09 05:05 more quality 2010-06-09 05:05 nod 2010-06-09 05:05 hopefully mine arrives tomorrow 2010-06-09 05:05 thank you for ordering one! 2010-06-09 05:05 np :) 2010-06-09 05:07 wolfspraul, is there an approximate price for the ya already? 2010-06-09 05:08 i'm thinking of getting one once it's out (or there are dev models available), but only if the price is comparable to the Ben 2010-06-09 05:08 oh no worries 2010-06-09 05:08 first of all I can already guarantee you the price will not increase 2010-06-09 05:08 that's not hardware industry to me 2010-06-09 05:09 there is only one way: down 2010-06-09 05:09 so maybe it will be 99 USD at the beginning 2010-06-09 05:09 ah, great to hear that 2010-06-09 05:09 maybe we will still offer Ben in parallel for a while, for 69 or whatever 2010-06-09 05:09 I want to drive all this down. 2010-06-09 05:09 so even with usb host and other improvements the price will not raise? 2010-06-09 05:09 of course not 2010-06-09 05:09 great 2010-06-09 05:09 this is a hardware startup 2010-06-09 05:09 price goes down, only down 2010-06-09 05:09 btw, rafa got some success with the jlime port for ben 2010-06-09 05:10 he'll prepare a nice standalone toolchain for me so i can port all the dingux stuff 2010-06-09 05:10 realistically I think I have to start Ya with 99 2010-06-09 05:10 maybe we can offer a little more margin to distributors at the beginning, to strengthen the distribution network 2010-06-09 05:10 right now all distributors essentially work for free, to help launch our copyleft hardware dream :-) 2010-06-09 05:11 btw i know it was discussed at least 100 times before, but i don't remember if you guys decided ya is gonna have a way of wireless communication 2010-06-09 05:11 he he 2010-06-09 05:11 I don't know, really 2010-06-09 05:11 heh 2010-06-09 05:11 of course we want it 2010-06-09 05:11 many people seem to like the SlowFi idea 2010-06-09 05:11 judging from the comments from the polish linuxnews article, that's what people demand 2010-06-09 05:11 and many people want Wi-Fi 2010-06-09 05:11 sure 2010-06-09 05:11 but we are building a free house 2010-06-09 05:12 the proprietary plasma tv is nice, but would ruin the character of our house 2010-06-09 05:12 they would buy it if there was a wifi (but of course for me it can be even a proprietary wireless chip, just something to have net on it) 2010-06-09 05:12 wolfspraul: It's interesting... your description of your ideals for licensing suggests you're more interested in a BSD sort of model than copyleft. The reason the GPL spent time thinking about how companies could screw projects over was to avoid things like the X server being hacked by vendors and the users not having the same freedoms to modify/share/etc. 2010-06-09 05:12 SlowFI is Near-Realtime and reliable... good enough! 2010-06-09 05:12 arctanx: hmm, I like copyleft 2010-06-09 05:12 Enforceability of a strong viral copyleft is important if the openness of the platform needs to extend to the end-user in all cases 2010-06-09 05:12 wolfspraul, that's a good point you have there 2010-06-09 05:12 but I'm not a lawyer, so I cannot answer enforceability questions, definitely not globally 2010-06-09 05:13 I am in China guys. 2010-06-09 05:13 If you just want the first-level developers using the platform to have the freedom, as you've described it will work fine 2010-06-09 05:13 those are all very theoretical ideas for me, in my daily life. 2010-06-09 05:13 even the whole patent system, only applies to maybe 20% of the world population 2010-06-09 05:13 I understand, you're a creator, not a lawyer :) 2010-06-09 05:13 not just software patents, all patents 2010-06-09 05:13 :-) 2010-06-09 05:14 I don't like the BSD license. 2010-06-09 05:14 I really like the questions kyak is asking because when the project is taking off, people interested more in money than openness will start asking them too 2010-06-09 05:14 in fact companies that choose BSD over GPL on purpose mostly have a strategy to kill copyleft and free software in the end. 2010-06-09 05:14 If someone can think of some answers, that's great 2010-06-09 05:14 so I do exactly the other way round 2010-06-09 05:15 arctanx: those questions are totally theoretical 2010-06-09 05:15 if copyleft can only take off because it is enforceable, then it will never take off 2010-06-09 05:16 I think once it becomes cool, and the culture of copyleft and sharing becomes better understood, then it will take off. 2010-06-09 05:16 you can ask me: send me a list of all the vendors you are buying from 2010-06-09 05:16 send me the prices of components that you buy 2010-06-09 05:16 and I will give it to you 2010-06-09 05:17 in fact I will say "damned this should be on the internet so I don't have to answer the mail manually" 2010-06-09 05:17 the only reason I don't have 'open accounting' yet is that we have to figure out how to keep the privacy related things like individual salaries or compensations anonymized. 2010-06-09 05:17 I'm not doubting your intentions of openness at all. I just think that enforceability and virality is a defining feature of "copyleft" 2010-06-09 05:18 yes, but it is not enforceable for 80% of the world's population anyway 2010-06-09 05:18 As opposed to a free sharing community in building great hardware 2010-06-09 05:19 anyway, like I said. if copyleft only takes off because it's enforceable, then it won't take off. 2010-06-09 05:19 You're right, it depends on more than that 2010-06-09 05:20 we need to explain why hiding secrets, hoarding knowledge, keeping our neighbors and friends in the dark, is just not the right thing to do going forward 2010-06-09 05:20 We're getting to the point of agreeing with each other differently, so I'll leave it at that :) 2010-06-09 05:20 yeah :-) 2010-06-09 05:28 wolfspraul: this is what sujan is attending in a few days and he is taking is ben to show off http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/events/indiasummerschool2010/ 2010-06-09 05:29 heh, imagine MS wanting to take over this market by trying to get windows to run on it 2010-06-09 05:29 (like they did with the eeePCs) 2010-06-09 05:29 yeah, good luck windows :D 2010-06-09 05:29 maybe an old version of NT 2010-06-09 05:30 even if they get some version of windows to run on mips, they won't be able to port all the programs for it, because 90% are proprietary software by other companies 2010-06-09 05:30 yep 2010-06-09 05:30 that's pretty much the nail in their coffin 2010-06-09 05:30 (ph and wince) 2010-06-09 05:31 zear: nice, I see this is in India 2010-06-09 05:31 (sorry wrong nick, I meant zedstar) 2010-06-09 05:32 and i can't believe they still didn't do the "always on top" option for the windows 2010-06-09 05:32 do Sujan and Rakhat from IDA Systems know each other? should I send a quick introduction email? 2010-06-09 05:32 typos, typos, I mean "Rakshat" 2010-06-09 05:32 when i have to work with windows sometimes and there's multiple windows on the screen, it's a madness 2010-06-09 05:32 is it still missing from vista/7? 2010-06-09 05:32 i was told that 2010-06-09 05:33 wolfspraul an intro would be good thanks 2010-06-09 05:33 though haven't tested it myself 2010-06-09 05:33 ok 2010-06-09 05:33 but i asked the users of both vista and 7 and they told me there's no such feature 2010-06-09 05:34 freespace, google lists some 3rd party programs for "always on top" for vista/7 so i guess it's missing it from the default config 2010-06-09 05:35 ok, thanks :) 2010-06-09 05:47 back 2010-06-09 05:48 wolfspraul: anyways, just to be clear. I'm totally with you guys on this. It is one the reason i've ordered NN, because of it's copyleft nature 2010-06-09 05:49 *one of the reasons 2010-06-09 05:50 great 2010-06-09 05:50 just wanted to clarify some things to myself, but it only got more complicated :) it's always like that when it's about licensing/money/questiosn like that 2010-06-09 05:50 if you want to build a business out of it, please do so 2010-06-09 05:50 (although it's very risky right now, too risky :-)) 2010-06-09 05:51 nobody here will complain about 'stealing' because we set this up to be about sharing from day 1 2010-06-09 05:51 in fact, I need to say, not 100% are copyleft yet 2010-06-09 05:51 but this is not the last trick I keep hidden up my sleeves, these are the parts we work on freeing next 2010-06-09 05:51 such as production testing software, case design, CPU 2010-06-09 05:52 i don't want to build a business out of anything, i'm not a business man :) i'd prefer doing what i like, and this is not business 2010-06-09 05:55 speaking about my NN parcel, i'm starting to get worried 2010-06-09 05:55 it arrived (imported) on the 5th of June in the morning 2010-06-09 05:55 and not even at the customs yet 2010-06-09 06:26 kyak: which country is this? 2010-06-09 06:26 (that it's imported into) 2010-06-09 06:26 it's Russia 2010-06-09 06:27 but there was a weekend in between, so i'll just wait.. 2010-06-09 06:28 hmm 2010-06-09 06:28 Russian customs can be a problem, let's hope for the best 2010-06-09 06:28 yep 2010-06-09 06:44 hi i need to install graphic card, but black screen is showing up, any solution?? 2010-06-09 06:46 Tomy:graphic card? on Nanonote? 2010-06-09 07:32 hi all 2010-06-09 07:42 Hola Rafa 2010-06-09 11:36 Xiangfu Liu: [xboot] output the cpu type http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/2b60170 2010-06-09 11:40 yes hello 2010-06-09 11:41 have you all signed up for nanohacks.org yet? 2010-06-09 11:41 and could someone pastebin me the contents of their /etc/default/keyboard in a working debian install? 2010-06-09 11:52 ohh nanohacks 2010-06-09 11:52 is that a forum style webpage? 2010-06-09 11:54 no 2010-06-09 11:54 its based on a wordpress plugin 2010-06-09 11:54 called buddypress 2010-06-09 11:55 it does integrate bbpress forums, but they're pretty simplistic compared to something like phpbb3 2010-06-09 11:55 or vBulletin 2010-06-09 11:56 I think it'll be ok for threaded forum communication 2010-06-09 11:56 at least for now 2010-06-09 11:56 if we ever get a community so big that its hard to keep everyting straight, I'll migrate it out into its own discrete phpbb3 install 2010-06-09 11:56 I'm crossing my fingers that that will happen 2010-06-09 11:57 I still intend to install a CMS of some kind 2010-06-09 11:57 probably Drupla 2010-06-09 11:57 Drupal* 2010-06-09 11:57 hmm 2010-06-09 11:57 on second thought 2010-06-09 11:57 not sure we need that level of complexity 2010-06-09 11:58 I'm looking for something to manage articles and howtos by contributing members of the channel and mailing list 2010-06-09 11:58 I might just see how well wordpress itself can manage that 2010-06-09 11:58 its pretty impressive software. 2010-06-09 12:02 why not mediaki as qi does 2010-06-09 12:02 the forum looks nice and also is a wiki :) 2010-06-09 12:19 nebajoth: i`m signing 2010-06-09 12:23 methril_work: :D 2010-06-09 12:23 kristianpaul: ok 2010-06-09 12:23 kristianpaul: I'll install that first 2010-06-09 12:23 and see how it goes 2010-06-09 12:24 nebajoth: could you add portuguesse language? 2010-06-09 12:25 and it´s impossible to change the HArdware Hacking 2010-06-09 12:25 sure methril_work 2010-06-09 12:25 I almost did originally 2010-06-09 12:26 nebajoth: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_setup 2010-06-09 12:26 may help you 2010-06-09 12:47 guys 2010-06-09 12:47 do you think we need a bot in this channel? 2010-06-09 12:48 keeping seen/stats database for instance, maybe something else useful 2010-06-09 12:48 or maybe its here already? :) 2010-06-09 12:48 !seen * 2010-06-09 12:48 not yet 2010-06-09 12:50 yessss 2010-06-09 12:50 botttt 2010-06-09 12:51 qi-commits: ? 2010-06-09 12:52 qi-eggs: ? 2010-06-09 12:53 qi-qi :) 2010-06-09 12:57 qibot 2010-06-09 12:59 qibot +1 2010-06-09 13:00 abosolutelly 2010-06-09 13:00 qibot -1 2010-06-09 13:04 so i guess it's a "yes" for the bot.. it's never too late to decide on a name 2010-06-09 13:05 it can always be changed later 2010-06-09 13:05 I think people will adapt to the change 2010-06-09 13:05 who's putting it up? 2010-06-09 13:05 i can do it 2010-06-09 13:05 I'd think it would make most sense on the same machine as our VCS master? 2010-06-09 13:05 which brings up the question 2010-06-09 13:05 what are we putting into VCS as a community? 2010-06-09 13:05 mmm. then guess i;m not doing it :) 2010-06-09 13:06 do we have anything centralizing development? 2010-06-09 13:06 I bet we don't. 2010-06-09 13:07 I bet the sharism dudes have something like subversion 2010-06-09 13:07 and a bunch of projects in that 2010-06-09 13:07 but that we don't have write access 2010-06-09 13:07 ok, we need a forge 2010-06-09 13:07 to centralize projects 2010-06-09 13:07 or 2010-06-09 13:07 hmmm 2010-06-09 13:08 launchpad, anyone? 2010-06-09 13:08 sorry, I know this feels like a derailing from bot 2010-06-09 13:08 but the bot will mostly be for reporting commits, I imagine 2010-06-09 13:09 it doesn't have to be on the same machine 2010-06-09 13:09 no it doesn't 2010-06-09 13:09 could just cron a check 2010-06-09 13:09 it can pull information via rss, or something else 2010-06-09 13:09 yeah sure 2010-06-09 13:09 well, what do you have to host it on? 2010-06-09 13:09 my personal server 2010-06-09 13:10 which is supposed to be 24/7.. but. .this is a home connection, so everything can happen 2010-06-09 13:10 been there 2010-06-09 13:10 I'll host it 2010-06-09 13:10 I haz ISP infrastructure 2010-06-09 13:11 I prefer supybot 2010-06-09 13:11 as its what I've used in the past 2010-06-09 13:11 anybody have a distinct preference for something else? 2010-06-09 13:11 i have experience with eggdro ponly 2010-06-09 13:11 eggdrop is perl, no? 2010-06-09 13:11 nope, it supports tcl scripts 2010-06-09 13:12 nah 2010-06-09 13:12 bots.. 2010-06-09 13:12 better humans :) 2010-06-09 13:13 and actually, eggdrop is considered to be "industry standard" for irc bots :) 2010-06-09 13:13 ok 2010-06-09 13:13 eggdrop it is 2010-06-09 13:14 at least it dint speak with no reason 2010-06-09 13:14 so how do we proceed? 2010-06-09 13:15 oh egg looks serius C coded bot 2010-06-09 13:16 yes, it's a bot with a long and glorious history :) 2010-06-09 13:16 sudo yum search eggdrop 2010-06-09 13:16 woop 2010-06-09 13:16 1.6.19-4.el5 2010-06-09 13:16 ancient? 2010-06-09 13:17 then again 2010-06-09 13:17 no, pretty decent 2010-06-09 13:17 eggdrop hasn't seen a release since 2008 2010-06-09 13:17 I assume that's because its rock solid 2010-06-09 13:17 [ 14 May 2009 ]: Eggdrop1.6.19+ctcpfix released 2010-06-09 13:17 not because there's a lack of developers 2010-06-09 13:17 Stable release 1.6.19+ctcpfix  (May 14, 2009; 12 months ago (2009-05-14)) 2010-06-09 13:17 pwnt 2010-06-09 13:17 ok 2010-06-09 13:17 there an rp? 2010-06-09 13:17 m? 2010-06-09 13:18 oh 2010-06-09 13:18 soz, that's what this is probably 2010-06-09 13:18 ok installed. 2010-06-09 13:18 :P 2010-06-09 13:18 nebajoth: i'd prefer building from source. There are seen and stats modules which have to be compiled anyway.. Besides, there's an UTF-8 and SSL patch 2010-06-09 13:18 christ 2010-06-09 13:18 you sure you don't want to install a nice clean python bot? 2010-06-09 13:19 as long as you're doing it, you should do what's more convenient and known to you 2010-06-09 13:19 infobot? 2010-06-09 13:26 eggdrop is in openwrt so u can run it from a dedicated ben ;) 2010-06-09 13:31 or a router 2010-06-09 13:37 hmm 2010-06-09 13:59 hold on 2010-06-09 13:59 that's brilliant, zedstar 2010-06-09 13:59 we should utterly run 2010-06-09 13:59 qibot on a ben 2010-06-09 13:59 ofc, that requires a ben permanently tethered to a larger computer 2010-06-09 13:59 tuxbrain: care to donate one to the cause? 2010-06-09 14:02 kyak: what about building an openwrt opkg of eggdrop with the UTF-8 and SSL patch, and the seen and stats modules? 2010-06-09 14:03 i tried it once for my linksys wrt54-gl, but it failed for some reason i don't remember 2010-06-09 14:03 what's the reason to have a bot? 2010-06-09 14:03 try again and keep a copy of your .bash_history for nanohacks? 2010-06-09 14:03 but i'll try again when i get NN here :) 2010-06-09 14:04 it provides glue between chanmembers, and relevant updates from the outside world can be posted here in a timely manner 2010-06-09 14:04 like new rootfs releases 2010-06-09 14:04 kyak: awesome 2010-06-09 14:28 hello could you help me where can i use graphical interface with nanonote ? 2010-06-09 14:29 I'm happy to receive my item today 2010-06-09 14:33 nebajoth, http://www.qqmore.info/ :) 2010-06-09 14:36 thanks 2010-06-09 14:37 kek ragequit 2010-06-09 14:42 woop, thanks for the mention, xdpirate 2010-06-09 14:42 hehe you're welcome 2010-06-09 14:43 Witam, zear =) 2010-06-09 14:53 xdpirate, hey there (too lazy to look up nowregian for "hey" ;P) 2010-06-09 14:53 rofl ;p 2010-06-09 14:53 it's just hallo or hei :P 2010-06-09 14:57 and "witam" is "I welcome (you)". It sounds more private. If you want to say "Welcome on this channel", i'd use "witaj", which is more "We all welcome you here" :) 2010-06-09 14:57 polish is funny ;P 2010-06-09 14:58 ah nice :P 2010-06-09 14:59 sounds complicated enough 2010-06-09 14:59 yeah, i recently read some text book for foreigners that want to lear polish 2010-06-09 14:59 and i realized that polish is really complicated 2010-06-09 14:59 *learn 2010-06-09 15:00 the "m" in witam stands for "I", and the "j" in witaj stands for "you" 2010-06-09 15:01 both are correct, though "witam" sounds more like you and you only want to greet me 2010-06-09 16:04 is there a troubleshooting section somewhere for the nanonote? 2010-06-09 16:09 FedEx just delivered my NanoNote. Cute! 2010-06-09 16:10 coat, i believe this channel works as such a place :) 2010-06-09 16:10 awesome :) 2010-06-09 16:10 well, i just received my nanonote yesterday, and everything's been working great.  i left it on and plugged in during lunch, came back and it won't turn on 2010-06-09 16:11 hmm.. isn't that the issue kristoffer experienced with his nanonote? 2010-06-09 16:11 the only response i get is when i unplug the usb cable and plug it in, the red LED turns on for a split second and turns off 2010-06-09 16:11 that indicates the hardware should be fine 2010-06-09 16:11 i'd say reflash the firmware 2010-06-09 16:12 you probably have an ancient version of it anyway 2010-06-09 16:12 i can't seem to get it to boot into usb mode though :/ 2010-06-09 16:12 maybe it's a bug that was already fixed, as i never experienced a similar behaviour with my nanonote 2010-06-09 16:12 er usb boot mode i mean 2010-06-09 16:13 ok, do you have the carbonized rubber button in the box? 2010-06-09 16:13 you'll need to use either it, or something else to short circuit two pins on the back of the nn (behind the battery slot) to put it into the usb boot mode 2010-06-09 16:14 that's what that was :) ...left it at home.  does it need to be shorted the entire time, or just when turning the device on? 2010-06-09 16:14 it needs to be shorted ONLY if you want to put it into usb boot mode 2010-06-09 16:14 it is a kind of a service mode 2010-06-09 16:14 you need to switch it to that mode only if you want to flash the device 2010-06-09 16:15 i remember someone having a similar problem lately, i told him to reflash the firmware and he had no more problems since then 2010-06-09 16:15 ok cool.  yeah i probably have an old version of the firmware then 2010-06-09 16:16 if when you plug your NN to the usb line and the led turns on, but the screen stays black, it means the u-boot (bootloader) doesn't work 2010-06-09 16:16 you need to reflash it 2010-06-09 16:16 quick question - how to remove the "OpenWrt" splash screen and get full-screen text console? 2010-06-09 16:16 emdete, ctrl+l 2010-06-09 16:17 cool - thanks! 2010-06-09 16:17 coat, need help with putting the device into usb boot mode? 2010-06-09 16:18 my high school electronics class is failing me, but would a piece of metal (like a paper clip) be enough to short the pins? i don't have the carbonized rubber with me 2010-06-09 16:18 i was told paperclip is not enough, but a rolled up aluminium foil should do the job 2010-06-09 16:19 but again, i was only told that, i don't know much about electrical conductivity 2010-06-09 16:21 It's not a problem of conductivity. 2010-06-09 16:22 I did it with aluminum foil 2010-06-09 16:22 I had to press hard 2010-06-09 16:22 (would be very weird if a lot of current needed to flow there) 2010-06-09 16:22 but it worked great 2010-06-09 16:22 But it might be a problem of contact. 2010-06-09 16:22 small piece pressed flat against the two contacts 2010-06-09 16:22 my bare finger 2010-06-09 16:22 touching the aluminum 2010-06-09 16:22 and it worked 2010-06-09 16:22 and it didn't shock me :P 2010-06-09 16:23 at least not so that I noticed 2010-06-09 16:23 and my Ben still functions very nicely 2010-06-09 16:23 oh so a bare finger should be enough? 2010-06-09 16:23 and I did it like 15 times 2010-06-09 16:23 yep 2010-06-09 16:23 because i have a lot of problems shorting it with the rubber button 2010-06-09 16:23 1/30 tries work 2010-06-09 16:23 it wasn't 100% with the aluminum either 2010-06-09 16:23 but I had better luck 2010-06-09 16:23 i think my finger should be more accurate as i can feel when i touch the pins 2010-06-09 16:23 more like 50% 2010-06-09 16:23 yes exactly 2010-06-09 16:24 The rubber solution is probably the best. 2010-06-09 16:24 and if you clamp against the plastic above the function keys you can get a good grip 2010-06-09 16:24 and press quite firmly 2010-06-09 16:24 just boot holding down U to go to usb boot mode 2010-06-09 16:24 it doesn't work if the bootloader is corrupt 2010-06-09 16:24 just raided the office break room looking for aluminum foil, but no luck.  might be a sign i should get back to work 2010-06-09 16:25 haha 2010-06-09 16:25 some short and thin copper cable maybe? 2010-06-09 16:25 shipped with corrupt bootloader? 2010-06-09 16:26 zedstar, who knows, i remember early reports by kristoffer about a similar behaviour 2010-06-09 16:26 (he left his nanonote for ~ 1 week and it was non functional afterwards) 2010-06-09 16:26 it's been kinda funky since i got it.  sometimes couldn't turn it back on without either taking the battery out or pressing the reset button 2010-06-09 16:26 and recently someone has an exact problem as coat with his newly bought nn 2010-06-09 16:27 and reflashing the firmware helped for him 2010-06-09 16:27 (or at least we got no new complains) 2010-06-09 16:28 did he have the same issue with LED if you know?  briefly turning on and then back off when you plug the usb cable in 2010-06-09 16:29 the led turns on when it charges the battery 2010-06-09 16:29 when there's no battery, or the battery is fully charged, it just blinks and then stays off 2010-06-09 16:29 oh ok good 2010-06-09 16:29 and when your bootloader is screwed up, that's exactly what happens 2010-06-09 16:43 interesting that there's an httpd running, but nothing in the /www dir so when you browse to it you get a 404. 2010-06-09 16:43 Should at least put a copy of the splash screen in there... 2010-06-09 16:44 tuxbrain: ping 2010-06-09 16:52 emdete, i believe it's a leftover from the owrt 2010-06-09 16:52 how many characters can you fit on a line in the default openwrt console? and how many lines? 2010-06-09 16:53 (still don't have my nanonote) 2010-06-09 16:54 xdpirate, what's the current status of the delivery? 2010-06-09 16:54 it's in my closest city, it will be here tomorrow 2010-06-09 16:54 oh and if you plan to carry it in your pocket, remove the rubber legs 2010-06-09 16:54 as they like to fall off like in the dingoo 2010-06-09 16:54 lol k 2010-06-09 16:55 (though they are more firmly attatched) 2010-06-09 16:55 but i already lost 3 2010-06-09 16:55 care to check the console for me zear? line width x height? 2010-06-09 16:55 yep, just need to charge the battery first, one moment 2010-06-09 16:55 in terms of characters fit 2010-06-09 16:55 awesome 2010-06-09 16:55 it's less than the standard terminal, that's for sure 2010-06-09 16:55 yeah 2010-06-09 16:56 my 18 character line length word wrap in dex is looking ugly with the newer pokemon entries 2010-06-09 16:56 so i'll just wrap it to the bens width :) 2010-06-09 16:57 39x15 2010-06-09 16:57 lolwut, not 40? :P 2010-06-09 16:57 thanks man :) 2010-06-09 16:58 i think it's 39 2010-06-09 16:58 ah the last spot is occupied by the blank space between the characters 2010-06-09 16:58 unless i can't count, which is possible ;) 2010-06-09 16:58 320 (screen width) / 8 (font width) = 40 (characters fit, without space between them) 2010-06-09 16:59 but then again there might be a different font and stuff 2010-06-09 16:59 thanks zear, i'll use 39 :) 2010-06-09 16:59 no prob ;) 2010-06-09 16:59 is there a way to change the console font size, or do you need to use a framebuffer? 2010-06-09 16:59 yes there is a way 2010-06-09 16:59 one simple command, though i forgot it :D 2010-06-09 17:00 and you need to have a new font file, too 2010-06-09 17:00 if it has a 40x15 terminal then the font size is 8x16 2010-06-09 17:00 i'd love an 8x8 font (like the one in the kernel i built for dingux this morning), could fit more on the screen 2010-06-09 17:01 then we'd have 40x30 :) 2010-06-09 17:01 xdpirate, nanonote's screen isn't like dingoo's 2010-06-09 17:02 it's 320x240 right 2010-06-09 17:02 yes, but the leds (or whatever is used in it) are placed differently 2010-06-09 17:02 right. 2010-06-09 17:02 that doesn't apply to the console fonts then :P 2010-06-09 17:02 coat: "Console fonts are stored in the `/usr/share/consolefonts' directory as compressed files; to install new console fonts, have the system administrator make a `/usr/local/share/consolefonts' directory and put the font files in there." 2010-06-09 17:03 yes it does 2010-06-09 17:03 it's a hardware issue 2010-06-09 17:03 let me demonstrate, one sec 2010-06-09 17:03 coat: "To set the console font to the scrawl_w font, type: "$ consolechars -f font_name" 2010-06-09 17:03 yeah it's like every other pixel is offset from the others by just a bit.  probably affects readability a bit on smaller fonts 2010-06-09 17:03 coat, http://dsl.org/cookbook/cookbook_20.html#SEC318 2010-06-09 17:03 :) 2010-06-09 17:04 ah aw, why 2010-06-09 17:04 an 8x8 font should still be readable though? 2010-06-09 17:05 i don't think so 2010-06-09 17:05 the 4x6 dingux default is horrible, hence why i made a kernel specifically with 8x8 2010-06-09 17:05 this is dingoo's and nanonote's LCD in a big zoom: http://wstaw.org/m/2010/06/09/lcd.png 2010-06-09 17:05 wat 2010-06-09 17:05 so you can see that small fonts are very disorted 2010-06-09 17:05 o_O 2010-06-09 17:05 http://www.qqmore.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/09062010900.jpg 2010-06-09 17:06 do you have a closeup of the nn screen zear? 2010-06-09 17:06 there should be one 2010-06-09 17:06 http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/wolfgang/beads_colors_normal.jpg 2010-06-09 17:06 you can notice on the openwrt logo that the lines are never stright 2010-06-09 17:07 aw 2010-06-09 17:07 that sucks 2010-06-09 17:07 it's perfect in the sunlight, though 2010-06-09 17:07 why would they place the pixel matrix like that 2010-06-09 17:07 no idea, low price? 2010-06-09 17:07 probably 2010-06-09 17:07 or maybe that was the part of the original design 2010-06-09 17:08 as the nanonote is based on some chinese dictionary device 2010-06-09 17:08 hm 2010-06-09 17:08 anyone know what lcd controller it's using? 2010-06-09 17:08 this thing: http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/thumb/a/a3/Loose_Hinge.ogv/mid-Loose_Hinge.ogv.jpg 2010-06-09 17:08 maybe you could throw a dingoo replacement screen in there 2010-06-09 17:09 http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/LCD 2010-06-09 17:09 that explains the weird button placement then :) 2010-06-09 17:09 coat, to some extent yes :) 2010-06-09 17:09 :P 2010-06-09 17:09 though the button captions were reworked 2010-06-09 17:10 zear, think a dingoo lcd screen would work out of the box? 2010-06-09 17:10 just recompiling the kernel with the dingoo's lcd driver should be enough 2010-06-09 17:11 unless there's some hardware differencies 2010-06-09 17:11 hm 2010-06-09 17:11 anyway: http://www.365.com/product/528631.shtml 2010-06-09 17:11 heh, looks exactly the same :p 2010-06-09 17:12 outside, that is 2010-06-09 17:12 because it is the same thing, except 1GB nand 2010-06-09 17:14 the pocket dictionary is $200 compared to $99 for the NN 2010-06-09 17:15 well.. 1) buy the nanonote 2) flash it with the chinese firmware 3) ??? 4) profit 2010-06-09 17:15 if there are firmware dumps, of course ;) 2010-06-09 17:15 nice lol 2010-06-09 17:22 I found 10 font size to be the minimum for legibility 2010-06-09 17:22 with fbterm 2010-06-09 17:22 it looks pretty good 2010-06-09 17:22 not as good as default 2010-06-09 17:22 but readable 2010-06-09 17:22 brb 2010-06-09 17:48 i found a bit of copper wire and was able to get it into usb boot mode.  i ran reflash_ben.sh but it's telling me 'Error - can't retrieve XBurst CPU information: -110' 2010-06-09 17:50 crap :/ that's what i'm getting when i boot it with the button combo 2010-06-09 17:50 but when i set it to the usb boot mode by short cirtuiting the pins, it's always fine 2010-06-09 17:50 coat, you'll need assistance of someone who has a greater knowledge about the flashing process 2010-06-09 17:51 like larsc 2010-06-09 17:51 in the meantime you can try to boot it on a different pc 2010-06-09 17:51 k i'll try that 2010-06-09 17:52 typing just usbboot, it seems to find the CPU type 2010-06-09 17:52 wonder if i should try the 'Alternative to using the reflash_ben.sh script' instructions on the wiki 2010-06-09 17:52 yeah, but with error -110 it's a no go 2010-06-09 17:52 k 2010-06-09 17:52 the script executes the same command 2010-06-09 17:53 the reflash_ben.sh never worked for me but the alternative worked well 2010-06-09 17:58 urandom_, same ;D 2010-06-09 18:14 Some dex updates and information sources - http://www.qqmore.info/?p=44 2010-06-09 18:18 xdpirate nice, hope you get your nanonote soon 2010-06-09 18:19 yeah it'll most likely be here tomorrow :D 2010-06-09 18:20 waves 2010-06-09 18:21 Has anyone played with the Jlime distro? 2010-06-09 18:34 FrankBlues, so far only rafa :D 2010-06-09 18:37 FrankBlues: now we will have mplayer thanks to zear ;) 2010-06-09 18:37 (in jlime) 2010-06-09 18:37 nah, thanks to you rafa :P 2010-06-09 18:37 i only just gave you the right sources 2010-06-09 18:37 Oooh? 2010-06-09 18:38 rafa, show the yt video ;) 2010-06-09 18:38 In Jlime opkg is reporting a bunch of X stuff available as well as GPE - does any of it work? 2010-06-09 18:38 opkg install mplayer? 2010-06-09 18:38 o_O 2010-06-09 18:38 FrankBlues: mplayer will be an extra package 2010-06-09 18:39 FrankBlues: for the stuff on repository it is well built 2010-06-09 18:39 darn, tried another computer and still got 'Error - can't retrieve XBurst CPU information: -110' :( 2010-06-09 18:39 FrankBlues: but those applications would need some manually config files to work on 320x240 2010-06-09 18:39 coat, :/ 2010-06-09 18:40 you will really need a help from some core devs 2010-06-09 18:40 larsc, you there? 2010-06-09 18:40 FrankBlues: I can make a opkg mplayer for jlime if you need it 2010-06-09 18:40 rafa: That would be sweet~ 2010-06-09 18:40 ! 2010-06-09 18:41 FrankBlues: I have some extra work previously, but I will do that today 2010-06-09 18:42 FrankBlues: did you install jlime? was it hard? 2010-06-09 18:42 It was easy once I realized that I needed one ext2 partition, and to put uImage on that partition instead of a fat16 one. 2010-06-09 18:42 zear: yes 2010-06-09 18:42 coat, is the usb port you are connecting your nanonote with a direct usb, or rather a hub? 2010-06-09 18:43 larsc, coat here has some serious problems with switching the nanonote into the usb boot mode 2010-06-09 18:43 direct 2010-06-09 18:43 I might scrap debian for jlime, it seems faster and I've had lots of keyboard issues in debian. 2010-06-09 18:43 FrankBlues: please, tell me how you installed it. You did just the ext2 partition? 2010-06-09 18:43 when short circuiting the usb pins 2010-06-09 18:43 FrankBlues: on microsd? 2010-06-09 18:43 larsc, he's getting the "Error - can't retrieve XBurst CPU information: -110" 2010-06-09 18:43 FrankBlues: I wrote the jlime installation.. but I just tested fat+ext2+swap 2010-06-09 18:43 thats timeout 2010-06-09 18:44 larsc, hmm.. and when does a timeout occur? 2010-06-09 18:44 On a 256mb sd I have about 180 as ext2 and the rest as swap 2010-06-09 18:44 because i have a similar error when i boot with the power+u 2010-06-09 18:44 if the nanonote does not respond in time ;) 2010-06-09 18:44 coat: have you tried a different usb cable? 2010-06-09 18:44 larsc, how to prevent it? 2010-06-09 18:44 ah, right, different cable, of course :D 2010-06-09 18:44 zear: i have no idea 2010-06-09 18:44 i am using a different cable then what came with the device 2010-06-09 18:45 FrankBlues: too weird :( 2010-06-09 18:45 well, wolfgang said that he noticed that some usb cables just don't work 2010-06-09 18:46 I think I might have a funky bootloader though... 2010-06-09 18:46 It's still the one for using with debian - and that expects everything in one ext2 partition. 2010-06-09 18:46 i'll the included cable when i get home 2010-06-09 18:47 FrankBlues: ah.. great.. could you give me a link of that bootloader? 2010-06-09 18:48 rafa: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-u-boot.bin 2010-06-09 18:49 (from http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Debian) 2010-06-09 18:49 FrankBlues: ah.. perhaps the same that I uploaded to jlime.com 2010-06-09 18:50 it is too weird.. that bootloader (if it is the same that I uploaded) should load kernel from fat partition. 2010-06-09 18:50 but if it does not.. then I am confused :) 2010-06-09 18:50 Every time I tried from fat it barfed. 2010-06-09 18:50 FrankBlues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NQKpqWG-RI 2010-06-09 18:50 I don't remember the exact error message but it was something about not finding uImage. 2010-06-09 18:51 rafa: wow! 2010-06-09 18:55 rafa:epic!!! 2010-06-09 18:56 wow wow wow, but the video is running faster than expected isn't it? 2010-06-09 18:56 it's a very low res video 2010-06-09 18:56 i want to see a 320x240 one 2010-06-09 18:57 zear: give me a link 2010-06-09 18:58 what format you need 2010-06-09 18:58 tuxbrain: the video is low res that is why I think 2010-06-09 18:58 tuxbrain: what mplayer uses 2010-06-09 18:58 320x240 avi should be okey no? 2010-06-09 18:58 i think so 2010-06-09 18:58 ogg? mpg? avi? 2010-06-09 18:58 avi 2010-06-09 18:58 ok 2010-06-09 18:59 ogg won't run 2010-06-09 18:59 tuxbrain: or give me 3 links and I will test :) 2010-06-09 18:59 zear: no? :( 2010-06-09 18:59 at least it doen't run on dingux, and that is based on the same sources 2010-06-09 18:59 argh.. 2010-06-09 18:59 wolfgang will not be happy with me :D 2010-06-09 18:59 :D 2010-06-09 18:59 a matter of compiling with ogg support, i believe 2010-06-09 18:59 mplayer for mp3 and avipatented.. and no for ogg! 2010-06-09 19:00 zear: but mplayer asked me to install ogg libraries 2010-06-09 19:00 well, I can test 2010-06-09 19:00 oh 2010-06-09 19:00 tuxbrain: link link link 2010-06-09 19:00 then we'll see ;) 2010-06-09 19:01 dont' streess me man I converting some and uploading in parallel searching for already done on the web 2010-06-09 19:01 tuxbrain: btw, I have not able to config the sound properly (in jlime) yet, that is why the video speeded a bit as well 2010-06-09 19:01 tuxbrain: don't stress me : ;-)) 2010-06-09 19:07 rafa: Does X / gpe work in jlime? 2010-06-09 19:10 FrankBlues: all the stuff should work, just that you need to config stuff. For example, you can install xserver xfbdev.. but it will not work if you do not have the proper command line arguments for the userland and kernel 2010-06-09 19:10 the same for other packages which need to be configured. 2010-06-09 19:10 The jlime repository has just binaries will work always in jlime distro, but that does not mean that these will work as we need ;) 2010-06-09 19:11 opkg keeps giving me errors when I try to install xserver-kdrive-fbdev 2010-06-09 19:11 damn all vids I found are roted 90º 2010-06-09 19:11 FrankBlues: if you try some odd stuff (X, gpe, etc) from jlime repo and it works for you after to config properly, please, let us know 2010-06-09 19:12 kk 2010-06-09 19:12 rafa: http://pastebin.com/188B9YGM 2010-06-09 19:13 FrankBlues: let me check 2010-06-09 19:14 FrankBlues: that looks like a filesystem error. 2010-06-09 19:15 FrankBlues: BTW, do you have jlime installed?.. 2010-06-09 19:15 I just opkg install xserver-kdrive-fbdev 2010-06-09 19:15 on the sdcard, yes. 2010-06-09 19:15 and this is the output : 2010-06-09 19:15 hmm... wonder if I should fsck... 2010-06-09 19:15 http://pastebin.com/imAwu0aQ 2010-06-09 19:16 it needs several packages.. perhaps you installed others before. But the error looks like problem on filesystem 2010-06-09 19:16 tuxbrain: :( 2010-06-09 19:19 FrankBlues: I uploaded a new jlime rootfs yesterday. Perhaps yours is before that ? 2010-06-09 19:19 hrm, possibly... 2010-06-09 19:19 uploading to my server the big buck bunny on 320x240 , well it is flipped vertically but for test it will do 2010-06-09 19:20 I will post the link once uploaded 2010-06-09 19:20 How would I know? 2010-06-09 19:20 FrankBlues: it is heavily being developed.. so perhaps today I will upload a new one as well. 2010-06-09 19:20 heh 2010-06-09 19:20 FrankBlues: well, there is no version yet because we have not released formally 2010-06-09 19:21 but if you installed it yesterday or before then you should download the current one 2010-06-09 19:21 kk 2010-06-09 19:21 gtg - dinner! Thanks for all the help! 2010-06-09 19:22 6 mins left 2010-06-09 19:22 also i'm coverting it to ogm 2010-06-09 19:24 tuxbrain: so nn will have a while to download them :) 2010-06-09 19:24 tuxbrain: perhaps i can test mplayer http:// ;) 2010-06-09 19:26 sure :) 2010-06-09 19:29 rafa:http://www.tuxbrain.org/downloads/nanonote/bigbuckrabbit_320x240.avi 2010-06-09 19:30 tuxbrain: great, let me test.. 2010-06-09 19:31 tuxbrain: if it's a good movie please don't forget to upload a copy to the qi wiki... 2010-06-09 19:31 same but in ogv in 2 mins 2010-06-09 19:32 tuxbrain: mplayer http://... works .. just that slow, but I think that the problem is the download.. 2010-06-09 19:32 tuxbrain: let me download the file and then play it 2010-06-09 19:32 great!! 2010-06-09 19:32 the ogv is 4 times lighter 2010-06-09 19:32 ah.. sexy :) 2010-06-09 19:32 so maybe it works with it 2010-06-09 19:34 I hate that mplayer tries ipv6 first :P 2010-06-09 19:34 wolfspraul: is a quick and dirty conversion, I will upload a non flipped one to the qi wiki 2010-06-09 19:34 wolfspraul: a short example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NQKpqWG-RI of the test 2010-06-09 19:34 (the first test) 2010-06-09 19:34 the big buck bunny is a creative commons filme 2010-06-09 19:35 rafa, so the jlime is functional on ben?? and with video? (yes I have just realize it) yay! 2010-06-09 19:37 tuxbrain: yes, but we have released it formally. Moreover the rootfs is being developed heavily, so every we have a new version :) 2010-06-09 19:37 link to rootfs you are using? no problem for me giveme giveme giveme link 2010-06-09 19:39 tuxbrain: http://jlime.com/mw4/index.php/Installation_nanonote#Installation 2010-06-09 19:39 the links there are the last ones 2010-06-09 19:40 tuxbrain: mplayer is an extra package, I will uploaded it today 2010-06-09 19:41 first video stops after a few seconds.. and the image was too pixelate.. like really bad quality 2010-06-09 19:41 is the ogv format uploaded? 2010-06-09 19:42 tuxbrain: but it is mplayer in nn.. because I see it well on PC 2010-06-09 19:42 ogv uploaded 2010-06-09 19:44 wow just 14mb of rootfs 2010-06-09 19:45 tuxbrain: http://jlime.com/downloads/releases/muffinman/documentation/muffinman-rootfs.txt 2010-06-09 19:45 the usb0 ip is 192.168.1.202, and root password root 2010-06-09 19:46 in documentation you could find something important about the current rootfs.. BUt at least you already know now how to ssh via usb :) 2010-06-09 19:47 documentation=http://jlime.com/downloads/releases/muffinman/documentation/ 2010-06-09 19:47 formating sd.... 2010-06-09 19:48 tuxbrain: and opkg update is already configured, so you do not need to do something with opkg, just config the usb network on PC 2010-06-09 19:48 well, run opkg update once at least. 2010-06-09 19:48 is the ogv working? 2010-06-09 19:48 donwloading.. 2010-06-09 19:48 downloading* 2010-06-09 19:49 is crossing his fingers 2010-06-09 19:49 :D 2010-06-09 19:50 if it does not work you can encode these lighter yet ;) 2010-06-09 19:51 actually is 80kbps i think in ogv 2010-06-09 19:52 Opening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family 2010-06-09 19:52 [theora @ 0xa99730]Missing extradata! 2010-06-09 19:52 Could not open codec. 2010-06-09 19:52 VDecoder init failed :( 2010-06-09 19:52 :( 2010-06-09 19:52 damn it 2010-06-09 19:52 no theora codec? 2010-06-09 19:53 there is theora codec.. but something is wrong 2010-06-09 19:53 mmm lets try mpeg 2010-06-09 20:01 larsc: i tried reflashing with the included USB cable and still getting 'Error - can't retrieve XBurst CPU information: -110' :( 2010-06-09 20:02 http://pastebin.com/dPns3CTW 2010-06-09 20:04 coat: before you start the flashing, did you check with 'lsusb' that you see the XBurst ID 0x601a:4740 ? 2010-06-09 20:04 yep 2010-06-09 20:04 Bus 001 Device 007: ID 601a:4740 2010-06-09 20:04 good 2010-06-09 20:04 but when you run the reflash_ben.sh script it fails? 2010-06-09 20:04 yes 2010-06-09 20:05 with the same error message 2010-06-09 20:05 let's try usbboot in manual (command line) mode 2010-06-09 20:05 so after you see this ID, instead of running the script, just run 'usbboot' 2010-06-09 20:05 (you need to reboot now, the device is probably in a bad state) 2010-06-09 20:05 and this is the 3rd computer i've tried it on so far ;) 2010-06-09 20:05 ok 2010-06-09 20:05 no need to switch computers 2010-06-09 20:06 take out the battery, power it only over the USB cable 2010-06-09 20:07 that removes some potential error cases where the device was not really turned off 2010-06-09 20:08 ok i've rebooted into usb boot mode, my computer sees the usb device and usbboot is running 2010-06-09 20:08 nice 2010-06-09 20:08 try the 'boot' command 2010-06-09 20:08 (at the usbboot console) 2010-06-09 20:08 what does it do? 2010-06-09 20:08 ah there we go 2010-06-09 20:08 it got farther this time 2010-06-09 20:09 the 'boot' command will load a small stub to the other side and execute it there 2010-06-09 20:09 http://pastebin.com/dfAqTZr8 is where it's at now 2010-06-09 20:09 from now on usbboot will communicate with that small stub 2010-06-09 20:09 'help' gives you a list of commands, although many are not fully or not at all implemented 2010-06-09 20:09 oh i just noticed the error mesas 2010-06-09 20:09 no need to play around with this, it's just for unbricking anyway... 2010-06-09 20:10 *message appeared again 2010-06-09 20:10 hmm, interesting 2010-06-09 20:11 do you have a USB hub between your computer and Ben (probably not, just asking) 2010-06-09 20:14 it's loading stage2 from /usr/local/share, did you build this yourself? 2010-06-09 20:14 (I mean stage2) 2010-06-09 20:14 maybe we check the md5sum of stage2 2010-06-09 20:15 mine is 92b55d... 2010-06-09 20:16 no hub, and i downloaded xburst manually using the instructions here http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/xburst-tools/downloads/32/ 2010-06-09 20:16 as i'm not using a debian linux distro 2010-06-09 20:16 92b55d3554c4c6344f6cbf0af024d15b 2010-06-09 20:17 ok same, so that's not it 2010-06-09 20:18 the tarball wasn't updated in 3 months, but still, I don't remember a bug like that that was fixed 2010-06-09 20:18 can you still boot your NanoNote? 2010-06-09 20:19 unfortunately the u-boot out of the factory is a bit old right now, and the way it supports boot from SD has been changed 2010-06-09 20:20 so theoretically that would be another option to boot from SD, then reflash from there 2010-06-09 20:20 just fyi 2010-06-09 20:20 ah 2010-06-09 20:20 another idea 2010-06-09 20:20 no it won't boot at all :( although this sounds weird, but as soon as i put the battery in and hold the speaker up to my ear, i can hear like faint white noise 2010-06-09 20:20 how do you go into USB-boot mode? 2010-06-09 20:20 you press the 'u' key? 2010-06-09 20:21 i use the hardware method by shorting the pins with the carbonized rubber 2010-06-09 20:21 hah, OK 2010-06-09 20:21 and the static goes away as soon as the battery is unplugged.  so it's doing something :) 2010-06-09 20:21 did you just get it, and out of the box it didn't boot? 2010-06-09 20:21 it should boot into the OpenWrt 20100113 image 2010-06-09 20:21 from the factory, that is 2010-06-09 20:22 oh sorry i was here earlier.  i got it yesterday and it worked great (although it seemed to crash a few times) and i left it on, plugged into the usb port during lunch, came back, and couldn't get it to turn back on 2010-06-09 20:24 is the battery out right now? 2010-06-09 20:24 keep the battery out, it may confuse us 2010-06-09 20:25 yes.  and rebooted into usb boot mode again 2010-06-09 20:25 ah OK 2010-06-09 20:25 just give the 'boot' command in usbboot another shot 2010-06-09 20:25 always worth it 2010-06-09 20:25 maybe it will disconnect/fail after stage2 again 2010-06-09 20:25 it's interesting though that stage1 works and then stage2 fails 2010-06-09 20:26 same thing as the latest pastebin 2010-06-09 20:27 should i try compiling xburst-tools from the git repo? 2010-06-09 20:28 hmm 2010-06-09 20:28 I'd say no 2010-06-09 20:28 k 2010-06-09 20:29 let me just check something real quick 2010-06-09 20:29 cool thanks.  i really appreciate your help 2010-06-09 20:29 maybe stage1 is loaded and executed in the memory inside the CPU, but stage2 is in the SDRAM chip 2010-06-09 20:29 oh no worries, we'll get it to work 2010-06-09 20:30 I apologize for the inconvenience, I hope you at least find it adventurous :-) 2010-06-09 20:30 so if stage2 is the first thing that runs in SDRAM, maybe the SDRAM chip got a problem? 2010-06-09 20:30 that would make your NanoNote the first ever with a hardware defect! :-) 2010-06-09 20:30 which one day must happen, who knows, maybe it's yours... 2010-06-09 20:31 how exciting :) 2010-06-09 20:31 yeah 2010-06-09 20:31 also it's strange that it did boot first, then stopped 2010-06-09 20:31 but still, there could be also much simpler explanations 2010-06-09 20:31 yeah and i haven't dropped it or anything.  it was in the same position on my desk when i came back from lunch, unless a gnome came in and broke it while i was gone 2010-06-09 20:34 yeah I think stage1 is loaded and executed in CPU memory, setups SDRAM, then stage2 runs in the SDRAM 2010-06-09 20:34 I'm wondering whether anybody else in the channel has another idea... 2010-06-09 20:35 you tried several computers already... which Linux distro do you run on them? 2010-06-09 20:35 Archlinux on all 3 2010-06-09 20:36 unfortunately these little stub binaries usbboot is loading (stage1 and stage2) do not implement a really robust USB protocol 2010-06-09 20:36 yeah i read about that on the wiki :/ 2010-06-09 20:36 well we always like to fix bugs, first need to understand what exactly the problem is. so maybe your case is one such case. 2010-06-09 20:37 for example if there is archlinux on all 3, maybe it has something to do with that? (long shot, just to illustrate my thinking) 2010-06-09 20:37 we have this other utility xbboot that you can use to load a Linux initramfs into memory right away for usb boots 2010-06-09 20:38 but even that first uses stage1 and stage2, then loads initramfs 2010-06-09 20:38 so most likely wouldn't help either 2010-06-09 20:39 i would definitely be up to trying another distro, i was thinking the same way 2010-06-09 20:39 where do you live? is there any other NanoNote user nearby?// 2010-06-09 20:39 i live in salt lake city 2010-06-09 20:39 maybe you can try a live CD, if your computers have CD/DVD drives 2010-06-09 20:39 ah, just was there 3 weeks ago... 2010-06-09 20:39 yeah let me try that now on another computer so i can still chat 2010-06-09 20:40 visiting Elphel 2010-06-09 20:40 yes please, that's worth it 2010-06-09 20:40 you can always just try the 'boot' command in usbboot, not the full script 2010-06-09 20:40 there is no way to bypass a successful loading and execution of stage1 and stage2 2010-06-09 20:40 so you can just focus on that 2010-06-09 20:41 and who knows, I said 'keep the battery out', but you can also try with battery inserted, just in case 2010-06-09 20:41 so you unplug the battery, unplug USB (then you know it's 100% off). Then put the battery in, then USB cable. 2010-06-09 20:41 if you plug the USB cable in without battery, normally it will turn on at that moment (so that's also when the USB boot pins need to be short). 2010-06-09 20:42 i'll try that while i download the live cd iso 2010-06-09 20:42 if you plugin the battery, sometimes it turns on at that moment, but normally shouldn't. then when you plug in the USB, it will also not turn on. 2010-06-09 20:42 So in that case, you need to press the power button (press a good 3 seconds, just in case) 2010-06-09 20:42 hope you can follow :-) 2010-06-09 20:43 the lsusb/0x601a:4740 is a sure fire way to tell your Nano is ready for play 2010-06-09 20:43 601a:4740 is the ID reported by the CPU over USB to indicate that it is sitting idle in usb-boot mode 2010-06-09 20:43 so when you see that ID, your NanoNote is on, and the CPU is running 2010-06-09 20:44 weird, as soon as i put the battery in, i can hear the faint static from the speaker 2010-06-09 20:45 wonder if it's turning on as i put the battery in 2010-06-09 20:46 possible 2010-06-09 20:46 can you keep the USB boot pins short at that time? 2010-06-09 20:46 then it will go into usb-boot mode 2010-06-09 20:47 yeah let me give it a shot 2010-06-09 20:47 another thing to note is the static goes away as soon as i plug the usb cable in 2010-06-09 20:47 OK I hear you, but I cannot relate this to anything 2010-06-09 20:48 we don't want to open it up and measure voltages now... 2010-06-09 20:48 if it is really a hardware defect, we'll get it back and take a lot what exactly it was. like I said would have been the first time, but of course electronics can break. 2010-06-09 20:48 but for now I am pretty sure it isn't just something weird on the software side 2010-06-09 20:49 I meant I think it is something software related :-) or fixable in software 2010-06-09 20:49 rafa:uploading a mpg version even lighter that the others 2010-06-09 20:49 understandable.  so you want me to try shorting the usb pins with the battery connected, or short the usb pins and then put the battery in? 2010-06-09 20:49 ah! :-) 2010-06-09 20:49 stupid me 2010-06-09 20:50 the pins are under the battery :-) 2010-06-09 20:50 forget the battery stuff, let's focus on USB cable only 2010-06-09 20:50 the USB boot pin have to be short at the moment the CPU is powered on 2010-06-09 20:50 only at that time 2010-06-09 20:50 basically when the CPU gets power, it checks those pins 2010-06-09 20:50 if they are short, it goes into usb-boot mode and waits for instructions (0x601a:4740 ID) 2010-06-09 20:51 if they are not short, it will boot from NAND 2010-06-09 20:51 the check happens only once right after the CPU gets power 2010-06-09 20:51 so you can short the pin, plug the USB cable in, wait 2 seconds, and already release the button from the pins 2010-06-09 20:52 normally when you plug in the USB cable, device will turn on. if not, you need to press the power button, and before that make sure the USB boot pins are short again. 2010-06-09 20:52 got it.  i usually have to try that about 3-4 times before my copmuter sees it.  i might just be fat fingering the rubber button though and missing the pins 2010-06-09 20:53 you need to press it firm enough, but if you do that you should see an almost 100% success rate 2010-06-09 20:53 well normally this is only meant for rare unbricking situations anyway... 2010-06-09 21:00 coat: which Linux kernel do you have on the host? 2010-06-09 21:03 2.6.33 2010-06-09 21:04 booting jlime :D :D :D 2010-06-09 21:04 from sdcard 2010-06-09 21:05 login prompt!! 2010-06-09 21:05 enough for today 2010-06-09 21:06 let's some sleep and 2010-06-09 21:07 'night :-) 2010-06-09 21:25 wolfspraul: http://ostatic.com/blog/ben-nanonote-aims-to-bring-open-source-tenets-to-hardware 2010-06-09 21:27 it links to an older article on Linux.com from Nathan Willis (26th of March) 2010-06-09 21:27 the one that stands out as the buggiest, yeah 2010-06-09 21:28 :) 2010-06-09 21:37 gbraad: just checked, the article still says it has USB host... 2010-06-09 21:42 wolfspraul: I'll contact Nathan to change this 2010-06-09 21:43 gbraad: that would be great. we were in touch a lot back then but communication didn't flow too well. Don't want to blame him though they get crazy time pressure and have all sorts of policies wrt updates & corrections. 2010-06-09 21:44 wolfspraul: will deal with it. mostly have a good relationship with editors on linux.com due to fedora 2010-06-09 21:44 there were a bunch of mistakes in that article, the USB host is just the biggest one 2010-06-09 21:44 let's get that fixed at least 2010-06-09 21:45 gbraad: thanks a lot for your help! 2010-06-09 21:45 wolfspraul: got my NanoNote today & having fun learning it. 2010-06-09 21:45 already flashed to latest boot/kernel/root 2010-06-09 21:46 emeb: wow, I wish coat would be there, that's kinda bugging me right now... 2010-06-09 21:46 but glad to hear you like it 2010-06-09 21:46 trying to build the distro & getting an error: 2010-06-09 21:46 make[3] -C feeds/desktop/tools/icon-naming-utils compile 2010-06-09 21:47 make -r world: build failed. Please re-run make with V=99 to see what's going on 2010-06-09 21:47 tried 'V=99 make' but that didn't do anything different. 2010-06-09 21:48 need to see whether some openwrt experts have an idea, I mostly just reflash and install binaries 2010-06-09 21:48 gotcha 2010-06-09 21:48 main thing is I wanted a toolchain to do some of my own coding and it appears that's already in place by the time that error pops up 2010-06-09 21:48 so this is no biggie 2010-06-09 21:49 wolfspraul: you in DE? 2010-06-09 21:49 China 2010-06-09 21:49 Yeow! 2010-06-09 21:49 How's things there? 2010-06-09 21:49 hah 2010-06-09 21:49 Awesome! 2010-06-09 21:50 long story. working on copyleft hardware. 2010-06-09 21:50 :-) 2010-06-09 21:50 You'll have to write your long story sometime. 2010-06-09 21:51 Really impressed with the out-of-the-box presentation of the NN. Very polished. 2010-06-09 21:51 good 2010-06-09 21:51 I hope it's enough to launch this business, getting close. 2010-06-09 21:51 but so far stil alive, and pieces coming together 2010-06-09 21:51 please help if you can, for example with wiki edits 2010-06-09 21:52 wiki is a mess 2010-06-09 21:52 pretty much the only one who tries to clean it up is me. categorizing pages and media. a lot of pages can be merged and need heavy editing. 2010-06-09 21:52 but anyway, enjoy your Ben first :-) 2010-06-09 21:52 Thanks - best of luck. 2010-06-09 21:53 I saw in this channel jlime will be ready very soon, that's a cool alternative distro 2010-06-09 21:54 will check it out when it's ready for primetime. 2010-06-09 22:01 heh - just transcoded some oggs, copied over & tried out w/ gmu. Works nicely. 2010-06-09 22:15 wow, just got my nanonote, such a cool gadget! 2010-06-09 22:15 cool! 2010-06-09 22:15 need to find a microSD wifi card for it 2010-06-09 22:15 anyone know of any? 2010-06-09 22:16 Spectec SDW-823 2010-06-09 22:16 it's the only one in the world, and that will (probably) ever exist 2010-06-09 22:16 it's expensive though 2010-06-09 22:16 pulster.de has it in Germany, and expansys around the world 2010-06-09 22:17 it will work out of the box 2010-06-09 22:17 qwebirc89679: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Ben_NanoNote_Wi-Fi 2010-06-09 22:17 thx 2010-06-09 22:25 brb 2010-06-09 22:29 larsc: you there man? I would need a hand with alsa driver in nn. For some reason 2010-06-09 22:30 I get in kernel boot time : 2010-06-09 22:30 ALSA device list: No soundcards found. 2010-06-09 22:37 waves 2010-06-09 22:38 coat: I am offline for a while, keep me posted. also email me at wolfgang@sharism.cc 2010-06-09 22:38 definitely.  thanks again 2010-06-09 22:38 nah, again: thank you! 2010-06-09 22:38 let's keep working on this, I enjoy the ride. your Nano has to live! :-) 2010-06-09 22:38 later... 2010-06-09 22:38 later! 2010-06-09 22:39 just heard from xiangfu who is at Ingenic's office hacking on the super new 4760 evbs... 2010-06-09 22:39 evb = evaluation board, i.e. a board with a live 4760 CPU on it 2010-06-09 23:06 Hi, All.  Got my Nanonote today! 2010-06-09 23:10 Techbear: great :) 2010-06-09 23:16 Soooo, I bought the Nanonote 'cuase it's the device I've always dreamed of.  I tiny, cheap computer that I could directly program games on, like a miniature version of my old Commore64. 2010-06-09 23:16 BUT, I'm not a linux guy. :(  I guess I'll have to start being one, though. 2010-06-09 23:18 It is funny how much I hear the NN compared to the C64... 2010-06-09 23:20 So, according to the wiki, I'm supposed to have nano (the text editor) on my NN.  But I only see vim.  Is that my only choice? 2010-06-09 23:22 You may need to update to the current distro to get nano. 2010-06-09 23:31 FrankBlues: hey, are you using openwrt right now? 2010-06-09 23:31 I'm in jlime 2010-06-09 23:31 but I could boot back... 2010-06-09 23:31 (and I have X running in jlime... woot!) 2010-06-09 23:32 NO! 2010-06-09 23:32 :D 2010-06-09 23:32 FrankBlues: could you please, how do you run X? 2010-06-09 23:32 could you tell me* 2010-06-09 23:33 Let's see, I have xserver-kdrive-fbdev installed 2010-06-09 23:33 I asked you about openwrt because I would neet the /proc/config.gz file to know the .config file for kernel 2010-06-09 23:33 rafa: are the sound modules loaded? 2010-06-09 23:33 FrankBlues: I read you 2010-06-09 23:33 gpe-term provides x-terminal-emulator (bleah - I can't find rvxt in jlime) 2010-06-09 23:33 and icewm works nicely. 2010-06-09 23:34 larsc: I built these inside the kernel, sound works now ;) 2010-06-09 23:34 ok 2010-06-09 23:34 FrankBlues: but how did you run X? 2010-06-09 23:34 larsc: I want to know the exact .config anyway 2010-06-09 23:34 Here is the script: http://pastebin.com/3zCeAnKk 2010-06-09 23:35 larsc: mplayer on fb freezes, and I want to know if my .config for jlime is okey (reading the .config from qi openwrt kernel) 2010-06-09 23:35 I need to tweak the x-terminal geometry 2010-06-09 23:35 FrankBlues: cool ;) 2010-06-09 23:35 rafa: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/tree/jz-2.6.34/arch/mips/configs/qi_lb60_defconfig 2010-06-09 23:35 fun stuff 2010-06-09 23:36 Now if I could figure out a way to emulate a mouse... ;) 2010-06-09 23:37 FrankBlues: yeah, lot of fun now that X is working ;) 2010-06-09 23:37 FrankBlues: you should take some screenshots or record a video :) 2010-06-09 23:38 Let me get something other than xterm running, heh... 2010-06-09 23:38 abiword is installing... 2010-06-09 23:39 larsc: thanks a lot ! 2010-06-09 23:39 I was thinking about xmms... heh... 2010-06-09 23:39 FrankBlues: :D 2010-06-09 23:40 xmms should be nice 2010-06-09 23:40 Looks like it is the old fashioned xmms 1... 2010-06-09 23:40 FrankBlues: we used abiword gtk1 for old hp jornadas 2010-06-09 23:40 and xpdf gtk1 as well 2010-06-09 23:40 but I am not sure if the jlime repo for nn has those 2010-06-09 23:41 FrankBlues: better if it is the old xmms 2010-06-09 23:41 current xmms is a server and you need clients.. and I do not know good clients 2010-06-09 23:41 Argh, is there a way to resize a running xterm without a mouse? 2010-06-09 23:42 I need to go in and change some of the icewm keyboard commands - I don't have alt-f9... 2010-06-09 23:45 you are the first guy using X right? 2010-06-09 23:46 I doubt it... I had it running on debian before this but had monsterous keyboard issues. 2010-06-09 23:47 Doode, I need to figure out a way to video this. 2010-06-09 23:47 abiword is actually usable without a mouse 2010-06-09 23:49 cool, please, if you do a video tell me.. I want to show your tests to others jlimers 2010-06-09 23:49 ;) 2010-06-09 23:49 absolutely! 2010-06-09 23:54 gtg, time to put the little one to bed. rafa: shoot me an email at frankblues@gmail.com and I'll give you a link to a video when I do it.